Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #305: Keith Costigan on the USMNT, the World Cup & soccer play-by-play

Episode Date: August 5, 2022

Costigan, who does play-by-play for the Sounders and FOX, talked about the USA's prospects at the World Cup, how he thinks the U20s this year differed from past U20 teams, Jordan Morris's return to form, Cristian Roldan's role problem with the national team, and how he preps to call games from the booth. Scuffed is an ad-free podcast. Please consider supporting us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffed Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the SCuff podcast, where we talk about U.S. soccer. Our guest today is Keith Costigan, the play-by-play announcer for the Seattle Sounders and Fox. He calls all kinds of games, including some of the U-20-Kaff championship that happened earlier this summer. Keith, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I've listened to your part. I've had friends tell me, hey, make sure you listen to this part.

It's good. It covers the game well. So excited to be a part of it today. I'm glad to hear that. So the Premier League starts today, and Liverpool faces full them at Craven Cottage tomorrow pretty early. You live on the West Coast. I know you're a big Liverpool fan. Do you get up in time to watch those games?

I think it's 430. Yeah, I mean, there was an old Liverpool fan who once said, no matter where you are in the world, when Liverpool play, if you're invested in it, that makes you a fan. It doesn't matter whether you can't be in the stadium. Yeah, there's no weight. I mean, the alarm is already set. 410 come down Cup of tea

And I'll be ready to go Yeah I never I never miss a Liverpool game Awesome So you grew up in Dublin And yeah Can you talk about the relationship between Irish people and Liverpool Like is

Is everybody in Dublin a Liverpool fan Or With people Yeah so it's When I was growing up It was like It was almost a half and half split Liverpool and Manchester United

So You know I grew up I was born 77, so late 80s, 12, 13 years of age. Liverpool are the best team in England by far. So, you know, there's a boat that goes from Dublin to Liverpool. And it's not very far. It's like a 35 minute flight, but this boat takes eight and a half hours. So I used to go over with my dad sometimes on a Friday night, get there Saturday morning.

Awful. The Irish Sea is ridiculous, choppy. You feel sick. You have a couple of hours in the city. you watch the Liverpool game and then you're back Saturday night because you don't have the money for a hotel or anything like that

so you know there's always been a relationship between the two cities a lot of Irish people have gone to Liverpool I think the the humor of Scousers is very similar to Irish as well but I'd say in Dublin when I was growing up there was a pretty even split

Liverpool, Manchester United and then besides that everybody supported Celtic so that was the kind of demographics of the football fan in Dublin at that time. So you were taking like a red eye, a red eye boat across the... A red eye boat, yeah. It was, let me, like...

So I don't know whether you remember Kevin Kilbana used to play for Everton. Kevin, I think, still took the boat up until a couple of years ago because he had his dog and he wanted to bring his dog back and forth all the time. And I know Roy Keane does that as well, but the boats have probably got better and stabilizes and all those things. But back then, it was like, it was awful. and Judy free, you could buy 24 big cans of fosters for like really cheap. So all these Irish people are using it, like they were hammered overnight.

It was a pretty, when I looked back, it was a pretty funny experience. But I never look forward to the boat ride. I look forward to the game, but never the boat ride. So like I said, you called some of the U20 matches at the Kaka Kaff Championship, going from something deeply historic to something much more, I guess, trivial, I suppose. but you've called at least one U-20 World Cup, maybe more. Did you call more in the past?

Yeah. Yeah, I've called it. I called it 2015. I think it was 2015 and then 2019. Yeah, when Ukraine won it, yeah. Okay. Yeah. What's your assessment?

I mean, I was listening to you and you trying to get Moe-Doo to answer some questions in the second half of that final game and him just steadfastly refusing. But what's your assessment of the U.S. team that won the tournament? and how it compares to past teams. You need to clip that because me and Mo had a great conversation afterwards.

I understood Mo's point, which is we don't know what's going on with Brazil, what's going on with all of these other countries. But my point was, beyond all that, there needs to come a point where we know we're going to compete no matter what. Like Brazil, they know they're going to compete no matter what. You know, some of these other countries that go and constantly compete and have one or two elite players. I think that's the next step for us as a US team. We kind of go in and go, well, if we can make the second round, you know, and so on and so on.

I really enjoyed watching this team play. I've watched teams before. I haven't liked the mix of players that we've picked. I've almost felt that they've been overcoached, you know, when I've watched some of the teams. And I felt like with Mikey and Sean and the staff, what they did well was they picked players that complimented each other well. And it looked like a real camaraderie with the group, and they looked like they enjoyed playing with each other.

Like there was moments where, you know, Paxton had the chance to score and make sure he was a golden boot, and he plays a backhill for Quinn who's also going for, just little moments like that. You could tell the players were enjoying themselves, Luna coming on and really expressing himself on the ball. I thought it was, look, I know the teams we played in the semi and final

weren't the teams that you're going to play in the World Cup. And I get that. And we wanted to, I talked to Alejandro Alvarado and he's like, look, we wanted to play Mexico. It's not like we didn't want that final. But watching the team play, there was a real understanding of the way we wanted to play. And I just felt like there was a freedom

for the players to express themselves on the field. So I enjoyed it. I think they should go into the World Cup of confidence. I think Tab did a really good job over the last couple of cycles. I remember the performance against France a few years ago. And then I think we fell to Ecuador, who we see Sufentes now and Palacios. They had a really good team. But this edition, we're looking at players. I remember going through the roster beforehand with Mo and we're like Jack McLean, 41 professional appearances. You know, all of this all the way through. We didn't always

have that at the U-18, U-19 level. And most of our players in that group are 18, 19 for U-20 group. It wasn't like they're right at the edge as well. So I'm excited by what I saw, but also you temper that with the fact that we didn't play the most elite opposition in Concord Calf as well. Yeah. That Costa Rica game was kind of probably the toughest one for us, and we ended up winning two zero, but could have gone a different way, I suppose. Yeah, yeah, it was good.

I mean, when I looked at that in, I think Costa Rica had two or three really good chances early on that game as well. but I like those kind of tests and I'm sure if you talk to the coaching staff they'll say the same I thought Costa Rica posed questions of us and in the past

we've seen our teams kind of wilt against you know the Honduras teams and not deal with that and I thought we coped quite well defensively and we always looked at threat to score in every game I mean we had so many good options so you're never going to go through a term like that

no matter what you know no matter how much better you think you are than everybody else of having a game that makes it difficult. But in the end, you know, I thought 2-0 was a fair result. But obviously we didn't get to test them with that we thought we might get in the semi and then in the final as well.

You know, I think it's probably important to point out we don't know that any of these individual players is going to be a big national team player. But like you said, I mean, there was sort of a cohesiveness and a freedom to the way they played together. How maybe I can get you to talk a little bit more about how that's different from past U20 teams.

Is it just because of the freedom they were playing with, the freedom to express themselves? Or is it like a different type of player now? Because I look back at the, well, I'll just let you answer that question. Yeah, no, and I'd like your opinion too, because I think it's valid when you're watching these games and you're watching the cycle. I just felt before maybe the fact we have a more confident young player,

we have players who are coming from proper professional environment, And look, there's a lot of people out there who'll, you know, shit on MLS and all of this. But MLS is doing a good job of trying to create a pathway. You know, you're talking to MLS teams now. I'm out there and there's proper scouting networks where they're identifying players earlier, you know, RRS going out and finding a Luna and making sure he's brought into the fold quickly. So I think we're dealing with players that are more confident. I think we're dealing with coaches who've come from that environment a little bit more.

I would say in the past I think TAB has done a good job but I think at other youth level I don't think the mix was good with the youth national team coach and you know you go out and say one thing here's the way we're going to play and then you go watch

a game against I don't know Ghana and it's like 24 to 3 in shots it's you know 60 to 40 in possession you're like don't come out and say you play a possession base game and this and that and then your players look restricted and I felt like at times. And I felt like, you know, when a Christian came down, when a Giorina came down,

I didn't feel like they looked like they were enjoying themselves. Or I didn't feel like, it felt like a burden for them to play with the youth national teams. I didn't feel that with this group. So I think the coaches that we've brought on are maybe, you know, instead of saying, oh, here's a name. Here's somebody that, you know, we've said, well, here's somebody that's worked in an academy setup. Here's other people that have worked. And they're, they're, They're on that journey with the players as well, if that makes sense. Totally makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. And I do think the fact that we're dealing with players now, like when Philadelphia, I think the English game, I'm not to go off too far on a tangent, but England's youth national teams, I've started to do really well. And I think it's the fact that if you're a young player, if you're a Phil Foden and you're breaking into the Man City squad, you're training with Bernardo Silver, you're training with David Silver. but you're training with these elite level players. So I think we're exposing our young players to that earlier. They're training with the Philadelphia Union first team. You know, they're training with the LA Galaxy first team. You know, so you're getting exposure to a higher level earlier.

That breeds confidence. And that makes players, you know, have to elevate their game. And I think that's what we saw. I mean, you know, McGlynn, I think has kicked on. We saw his goal last week for Philly. I think Quinn and Paxton played really well. I think Brandon at centerback is going to be really good. I like Jalen, who played some of the games.

I think he's going to be a really good centerback. We've seen players who've been exposed to higher levels before going into that and then not having played at that level or those environments. So I think there's a number of elements. You know, people can criticize me if they think the coaching hires in the past were right. I think Tab was the step in the right direction. He did a really good job. And I think this coaching staff have done a good job to build on that.

And I was really pleased with the way they had the team perform. All right. To the World Cup, the senior World Cup, who are some of your favorites to win it? Oh, I mean, I think Argentina are a team that you look at the way they qualified. they've kind of subtly gone away from, not that they were ever just overly relying on Messi, but when you have a team, you kind of have to build around Messi

because that's who he is. But I think Argentina have a good defensive structure. You know, they're well-organized. I think they're a team that can, you know, perform well in that environment that we're going to have in November. I know England didn't play well, but I still think England are a threat. I don't think in Garrett Southgate,

have the most, you know, enterprising coach, the most exciting coach, but they're well organized. They're a really good set piece team. And in, you know, in the final third, they have a couple of match winners as well. I think Brazil, you never write off again. It's going to be a warm World Cup. And I do think those things kind of play a part as well for players. Beyond that, I mean, I don't know if I see Spain as a threat. I think Spain are back to where they were pre-2008, where they're going to be a really good team, and they have the ability to beat anybody.

But I don't know if they can consistently put together a tournament. And France is a team, but again, I feel with the right coach should be the out-and-ow favorites, given the squad they have, but I'm not a Dié Deshaun fan. I think to have that much firepower and to be basically a counter-punching team and a team that, you know, players transition. It doesn't, they don't excite me to watch. Doesn't sit right.

Yeah, it doesn't, you know, you should be looking to dominate the ball and they don't. And I think we saw that in the Euros where, I think was it Switzerland that knocked them out where they give teams a chance. I think against Brazil, Brazil come out on them. France will probably win that game. But I could see France going out to a lesser team again, even in England again, who kind of say, you break us down. because they don't necessarily play that way under Dechamps. So those are the group. I think France will be in there as well,

just given that they have the quality of players. But I don't know if I see, you know, a Germany jumping out of the pack like they've done before and always maturing at the right time for a tournament. I do think the two South American teams right now, for me, stand out as the teams that could really be the one to lift the trophy. Okay. And it's particularly for teams who are not in that group like the U.S., the World Cup can be a crap shoot, but I do want to ask, what do you think the U.S.'s prospects are? What should fans expect? Yeah, I think the draw is good. I really do. I think, you know, you have a group of four teams and you look at two and you're like, well, if you don't beat those two teams, I'm sorry, you don't necessarily belong in the knockout stage of the World Cup. Like, we're not talking about you have one of the high teams. You have one of the high teams. You're like, you're not talking about, you have one of the high.

seeds in England, who I would argue that if the US were to pick a seed, they would probably pick England to play against because there's a bit of familiarity there. I don't think there's the in awe of England like you are of the yellow, the jerseys of Brazil. You know, there's a different mentality against that. So I am concerned about a couple of different positions. I think we haven't failed. I don't think we have a dominant goalkeeper. I don't think we have a number nine that for me can go and really concerned teams in the World Cup level I think we've played really well

I think Greg you know this with with social media there's just like people are just mad at everything and Greg's Greg's mandate was to come in and make the team younger get these players and to qualify by bringing

you know getting rid of the entire last group really yeah you know and bringing in the Westings the Tyler all of those things is, I think he's done a good job. But now, my question is against, in Iran, against the whales who maybe sit back,

do we have the ability to break those teams down? I look at our midfield and Weston and Tyler from me are, reminds me at Liverpool when Julie was the manager, when you'd have Momo Sosoko, or when Benitez was manager, sorry, so teams would come

at Liverpool and Momo Sossoco would break up play and drive forward and and you're like, Momos Sosuco is such a good midfielder. And then you'd see Liverpool against Fulham at Amfield and Liverpool couldn't break Fulham down. And you're like, oh my God, Momos Sosco is so bad. And what I mean by that is I don't think Weston and Tyler are the players that can unlock a defensive unit if Wales are saying,

leading 1-0 and sitting back and saying, come on, we dare you to break us down. If Wales come out and play, Weston, Tyler, can hit spaces, they can attack. I think they're good at that. But there is a concern of the creativity within the group of who can unlock a defense. And for me, then, you know,

a Clint Dempsey of the past, a player that you can look to and say, well, he's going to get goals for us. I don't necessarily know where the goals are coming from. And I think Greg has persisted for a long time now with we're going to try different nines. I was surprised that he maybe didn't go to just say getting his best players on the field.

You know, Geo maybe's been injured a little bit too much, but maybe Geo is a false nine, Christian, Timi Way. Like where you're saying, look, we're getting these guys on the field. We're not going to try bringing a player that isn't at their level. Let's get all our best players on the field and go from there. I don't know if we've done that enough to be, to be confident of that if we try it in a World Cup. But I think looking at the group stage,

I think you have to say we have to get out of a group like that. you know, that has to be progress. We failed miserably by not going to the World Cup. So we can't go back now and say, oh, well, we made it. That's not progress. We're always doing that. You're expected to make it. So for me, we have to play a knockout stage game.

And I do think looking at the group, that's possible. Not saying it's definite, but it's a real possibility. So there's a bunch of our listeners who are big Gio Rain of Falls Nine folks. So we can say that you're you support that position. Yeah, I think I think if you don't have a nine, I think that's what that's what Spain did. They didn't have a nine for a while like where Torres, David Villa was injured and towards the downward spiral of his career,

Torres was suffering with injuries. And they were kind of like, well, we're not going to just play in nine. We have great midfielders. Like let's get our best players on the field. And Fabragas in the, in Euro 2012 was, was sensational in that term. And so for me, it's get your best players. on the field and not have maybe Giorina on the bench and have a nine that we're not fully invested in or fully believing in starting, you know, World Cup games.

All right. So I gather there's not like a particular nine out there who's on the fringes like, I don't know, D.K. Or, oh, yeah, there's a bunch of names, Brennan Vasquez, who lights your fire, none of those. No, it's tough. I wish I could give you like a hot take or something like that. I've never, like, DK, like if you want to play a certain way, DK is not, you know, you can say the most mobile in that role for me.

It's more of a maybe Yergen-Kinsman style mine, like where, you know, you hold the bot, like, you know, not knocking Yorgon because I thought Yorgen did some good things. Brandon Vasquez, I think, has had a really good year. But I haven't watched his games in depth enough to know if, you know, I don't know if I'd want to go into a World Cup with a player. who's been so far removed from the national team. Right.

And, you know, and say, well, let's see how this goes. And then three games in, we're like, oh, he really wasn't ready for the World Cup. You know, that kind of thing. So PFOC is another one that people have talked about. And I'm like, well, I see clips, but I don't watch his games. Like, you know, and the fact that these players have come in, has you right, come in, and Greg's had a look. And it doesn't seem like Greg fancies any of them as well.

You know, I watched Jesus Ferreira the other night. night. He seemed to want to be a 10 more than a 9 in the game I covered where he dropped really, really deep. He didn't play well either. I wouldn't say. I watched some game too. Yeah. And look, that's not a fair. I think he's had a good year. But is he a mesh maybe for, you know, if you have a 9 like that that's dropping in, would Giorina be a better, a better option than Pereira? I would probably argue that he would be. So, no, I don't, I don't have a nine. The goalkeeper position as well is interesting for me because, you know, Sean Johnson came back in and played one game and people were like, well, there you go.

And I'm like, now, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't think Sean's been an international goalkeeper for a long time. I think, I think Matt Turner impressed me when he played, but now he's going to be sitting. And I've never been sold on Zach Stephan. I've never been, I've never been a massive fan. And I think we saw that with City when he was called upon last year. I think he made some big mistakes. So there's a concern for me there that that position. For me, I'd prefer Greg to go out and just back someone now. But the fact that he hasn't suggests he doesn't know where we're going with that as well.

So that's the concern. I mean, do you have a nine that, I mean, are you a Rainer camp or are you? I'm interested in the idea. I'm sort of, I'm just sort of watching at this point. You know, I guess I'd be interested in seeing Brennan. Brandon Vasquez in this camp just to see if he fits with the team and maybe gets a few minutes in one of these two friendlies in September, but not sold on him either. I get the idea for Ferreira, you know, like that he can get, he can drop in and bring the other attackers into the game. And those other attackers, the other wingers, there are best players, you know, Christian Pulisic, Giorana, ostensibly a winger.

Brennan Erringson, Tim Wea, we want those guys involved. So if we have a nine who gets them involved, that's good. I get that, but I, I don't know, I watched the game against Seattle too, and he looked, I don't know, he's small. So how, how is he going to handle the physicality of, you know, world-class centerbacks, you know, putting their shoulders into him? Is he even going to be able to receive the ball to do to do? I know, those are, those are. I like, the other one I like with Geo is, I'm a big Brandon Aronson fan. I think he's got maybe the best balance out of all the attackers in terms of his movement with the ball is, his type.

He reminds me of Yossi Beny Yun, who's an ex-Liverpool and Chelsea player, the way he drops his shoulder, the way he changes his feet. So I want him on the field as well. I wouldn't agree with it. I'm not necessarily worried about the, you know, if you're Ferreira, you don't want to, like, physicality with centerbacks now. I think it's, we've gone away from that part of the game. So if your positional play is good. And if your movement and timing of the movement is good, I don't, I think you almost negate that. but the modern centreback is not just physical, right?

They're quick. They can read, they can step on a high line, and they can press that space. So does he have the tactical ability to find that space where there is no space? But I look at Liverpool last year, Mane was a winger for so long, and then became a nine. And now he's going to be a nine for Byron at times.

So could we do that with a Christian, a geo? Yeah, I think we could. and then we get everybody on the field that we feel is at a really high level but we haven't done it a lot up until now so that's my concern that you go into the World Cup kind of a little bit blind on it which can work out you go into game one

and you know whales don't know about Wales wells haven't seen you do it enough and you catch them by surprise but also then if you do it and it doesn't work you know you have egg in your face and you know we're all pointing at Greg saying well you tried it and it didn't work and right that's that's the nature of this business, you know.

Well, I think you make a good case for it, and I'm a impressionable person, but I think I'm pretty much sold. I'm pretty much sold. So, who do you think is the most underrated player on the national team? Brandon Aronson. Yeah, I think Brandon. I think he's a clever player. I think he's, I love the way he moves.

I think he's really, really subtly, like, you know, his time and a pass is his reading of the game. But you're not going to be, you're not going to be rooting for Leeds. No, well, my dad's a Leeds fan. My dad's a massive Leeds fan. I want Jesse to do well, but I did pick them to Godell. As much as I love the signing of Brandon, Leeds have replaced a band city midfielder and Calvin Phillips with Tyler Adams, who Tyler didn't play well in the Bundesliga for me.

You know, there's this, like, well, Tyler's, no, Tyler didn't play Central Midfield because he didn't warrant that position for, the Bundesliga. I'm sorry to be that guy, but that's a fact. And they, Rafini's gone to Barcelona and I don't think they've replaced the goals of Rafini that he brings to that team. So I'm, I'm concerned about leads, but I hope Brandon does really well. And I hope, I hope, I hope, Jesse does really well because Jesse's one of the, one of the best people that you could possibly meet in this business. Why do you say that? just just a really open guy um you know the way he there's there's a lot of insecurity uh when you talk

to certain coaches and they're worried about uh i remember i remember once talking to yurgen klop and i was like well the english press are saying that you remember they kind of gave an ovation to the fans after a two-two tie and i said the fans are saying you're celebrating a draw and he went and i went well i covered bundles league and that's what you do and he was went, yeah. He goes, if they want to find out what it really means, they know where to look. No biggie. And there was this like, and I've talked to coaches. Yeah, and I've talked to coaches here where they're like, they're so worried about, like, I've had, I've had coaches call me after a commentary game or text me. Why did you say this? I'm like, really? You're worried

about me? And Jesse's not that. Jesse's like really good. I remember speaking of Bradley Wright Phillips. And Bradley told me he was like, dude, like, this guy is like a great man to manager. a really, really good person. And any time I've been around, Jesse, I've just got that feeling from. So it's hard not to rue for him. And he puts his heart in his sleeve when he's out there. He'll go at it. Like, you know, he doesn't give a shit if someone's saying like, oh, you know, this American,

there's not an insecurity there about him on that sideline. He knows he belongs and that's why I like him a lot. When a coach calls you after a game to complain about your commentary during the game, how do they know? Are they watching the replay or they got, they got a team? I'll give you, I'll give you an example. You know, I had a coach once who was down the bottom of the table. And I made a comment that said, you know, they're lucky there's no relegation because they'd be in, you know, league two by now or something because they'd struggled for so long.

And he messaged me, the coach messaged me and said, hey, Keith, I'm trying to keep my job here. And, you know, you're being, you're being critical. and I said, well, you've won three games out of 25 this year. You know, what did you think would happen? And I said, I'm not critical of you, critical of the team, I'm critical of the organization. I said, I don't know, I coach. I don't understand how you take that personally. I really don't because if I win three out of 25 games and you're on your podcast ripping me to shreds,

you probably have a point. It's my job to go and worry about what I do. do and not worry about convincing you that I'm great. That doesn't make any sense. So I found, I found a bizarre at the time when I told the coach that, he kind of went, okay, yep, talk to you later. I kind of left it. But it was, yeah, not the, not the only time that's happened, but it's, it's, it's an interesting one for sure. Well, there's a philosophical thing, too, where your responsibility is to the audience, you know, to, yeah, to sort of speak, not to sound too highfalutin, but the truth, you know. Yeah.

And yeah. Anyway, who's most overrated? Who's the most overrated player? Who? Maybe Tyler Adams, you think? No, you know, I like Tyler as a player. I just think what he's done in Europe is overblown. Like he hasn't had a year of, okay, you have conquered that level.

You know what I'm saying? Like, when I looked at Leipzig, if Leipzig had everybody fit, I could argue every time that happened, he wasn't going to be. in the lineup. And that may sound harsh, but, you know, I covered the Bundesliga for a long time. I still watch it. And I just, yeah, but I do like him as a player. I would, Anthony Robinson, I wouldn't be the biggest fan of. You know, I went to Craven Cottage last year. And I thought Sheffield United, who won that day, won nil, allowed Anthony to have the ball. I thought their game plan was to say, let's funnel it out through Anthony and make him beat us. And I thought,

as used to the ball was was quite poor and its decision making was quite poor. Having said that the last few games, he hasn't done that badly for the national team. But I would say, out of all the players, I'm, you know, I was a left back, a really bad left back, but I was a left back nonetheless. So maybe I look at that position more, but he's a player in a position where I look at it and I go, eh, I'm not really, I'm not really sold on them long term. It's a sort of a situation where he's there by default. he's a lock starter because there's just

underneath him there's just nothing you know yeah yeah it's been like that for a while too where it seems to be a position that you know that the cupboard has been bare for you know a number of years but you know having said that I hope he does well I think he has done well in certain

games but you know in a in a world cup setting would I be 100% comfortable probably well actually I wouldn't be you know there's no probably about it I wouldn't be yeah you call games for Fox are you going to be calling games at the World Cup? No, no, I won't be on the World Cup. You know, it's, I mean, I guess,

I guess like a player, you know, players are out there going, I hope I make the squad and, you know, people have decisions to make. As a player, you have to believe in yourself, as a commentator. I believe in myself, and, you know, about, I would say, nine or ten years ago, I used to do the color side of commentary. And I went to my boss at the time, Johnty Whitehead, and said, look, I want to be a play-by-play. I think I can set up the guy, you know, better than most play-by-play guys do. And he said, agree, great idea, you know, worked with me. I don't know many play-by-play commentators that have a coaching background,

they have a UAE license, that have an academy director's license from UEFA and from USSR who's visited academies. and, you know, I see a lot of commentators, you know, post their boards where they've written all their notes. And people are like, wow! And I'm like, notes are just like, we get sent like packs and you're just rewriting notes. I'm like, this is great. And everybody, if you're worth anything in commentary, you have notes ready for the games. But it's the nuance of when you use them, of how you use them, of, you know, reading a tactical sheet.

in the game of bringing in your commentator in that way and having that conversation. I think I do that well. But ultimately, you know, I'm not making that decision. But I'll continue to do that. I'll continue to, you know, push myself and do things that I don't think other play-by-play commentators do. I think they're focused more on the we're given stats. Let me read the stats that we've been given. I'm more focused on, okay, This team is known for high pressing, but in the first half, they've had no success. Why? You know, what's the issue?

You know, why are we struggling to play out of the back? Like, more tactical questions. And I do think there's some commentators that do that really well. But, you know, my goal is to be number one at that. So disappointed that I'm not going to be involved in the World Cup. But again, I think we spoke before we start recording. I said a lot of people have, you know, things in life that don't go their way. and a lot worse than me.

So if I was to complain and bitch about my situation, I call MLS tomorrow, I call two league at MX games this weekend. I'm blessed. But, you know, when the World Cup starts, there'll be, you know, a ball in the house that might be kicked a little bit harder against the wall and there might be a few, you know, swear words used. But that's the nature of this business.

I feel like you should be calling World Cup games, but, you know, what do I know? So how? Well, I think you know well. I think you know well because you think that. Right. Well, how have you, so you said it's not just about having the notes. It's about knowing the right time to use them and the nuance of using them to bring in the commentator.

How do you get better at that? How do you, how do you improve? Just reps? Is it, is it inability? No, I'm a big believer in hard work. Like, you got to watch teams. Like, I can't watch. you know, a team, you know, you can't tell me I'm covering a team tomorrow and I don't want to do any

research on them. And I'd be like, wow, like they're playing a really high line. Well, what if they play a really high line all season, I need to know that. I need to know that they've been successful with it. Why they're successful. The press is really good. That allows their centerbacks to be high. Their centerbacks have to, you know, really pacey, read the game well. I have to know all of those things. I can't just be, you know, they've struggled defensively. They've only picked up one clean sheet this season. Okay. Great stat. Great. But what's the nuance behind it? Why? How have they been conceding goals? Why have they been conceding goals? Have they made a tweak? They played four at the back. Now they've gone three. Is it a three or is it a five? What are they

asking of the wing backs? Is it more, you know, I hear people, I see riders go, we're going to three to back, I'm going, okay, that doesn't necessarily mean that's more defensive. But, you know, if your wing backs are really high, it can be a really, really, you know, attack-minded. So those kind of things, being able to read that. I think it's watching games. How many games do you watch? How many games do you watch to prepare for a single game? I mean, in MLS, I try to watch at least the last couple of games before. You know, the ones I'm watching highlight packages of the other games as well. I try to talk to people that I trust, you know, you know, coaches.

What have you seen from that team, that kind of thing? And I do look at, I do look at lineups. I do look at tactical shifts. I'm like, okay, you know, if I see a lineup and then I see a shift in it, okay, where did they do that? And then kind of go back to that game and see what they did and see how they performed in that. So the more you're like, because that's like a point where things change when that

shift happens. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if I'm like the last eight games in a row, and now they've won two in a row, looking back, what do they shift from that last eight to the next year? Oh, okay, they switched to, you know, Paxton Palmacal played a little bit deeper, whatever it might be, and then kind of saying, okay, that's what they changed. And then not just seeing the change, but seeing if that really was the reason why they won, you know, that kind of thing. So a lot of work goes into it, but if you're covering a league every week, it kind of builds on itself. You're used to it. You know, so it's making sure from minute one you're paying attention.

So a few listener questions on this subject. Matt asks, I'm curious about the differences in terms of prep work between a club match, like an MLS match or a national team match or even one of these youth national team matches. Is it pretty much the same process for all three? No, it's tough. The youth national teams are tough. So what I try to do is look at the individual player and look at the role that he's playing within his club because I think it gives us a talking point.

You know, if if a player, you know, Giorana, when he, when he, when he played for the youth national team a few years ago, they played him, they played him as a nine, right? I can't remember who was the coach now. I'm blanking on it. He went to Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. But he played him as a nine and he hadn't been playing as a nine.

And you could tell that he hated it. So my reference the whole time was, he didn't play him as a false nine. like he wasn't dropping in or anything like he was just isolated and um i reference things like that you know um well here's what he's doing for his club versus it's very different because you have less of a body of work um with with the youth national teams so you're kind of going on you know i don't necessarily like comparisons to the older teams because they're completely different players like four years ago we did this well also none of these players played four years ago so I try to touch on, you know, here's what, you know, Quinn has done for Philadelphia Union

broke in last year. That's had issues getting back in the first team this year. Those kind of storylines, I think, are, you know, what do you want to see from here? How does this translate, you know, to the, you know, the club level for him? So those kind of storylines, but it's definitely, it's definitely a different kind of conversation and a different kind of prep when you're working at the national theme level versus the club level. Makes sense.

Nate in Oregon asks, do you think you'd win an arm wrestling match with John Strong? You know what? Can we think, John? Yeah, yeah, I feel like I would, yeah. Awesome. No, John's a good guy, but I think, yeah, if I caught him on a good day, yeah. John's quite strong, John has quite a strong bill, though, so I could see him being like a tough out. But, you know.

You got him. Within 15 seconds, I think I'd have him down, yeah. Yeah. More Buildings and Food asks, how do you feel about the Apple MLS deal? What does it, what does it mean for you as the voice of the sounders? Anything? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess I'm in the same camp as everybody else is like, wait and see. You know, MLS made a decision, you know, financially you have to add those considerations in.

You know, Apple came up with the offer, but now it's a case of, you know, as a commentator who's worked at one team, how does that affect me? There's obviously the immediate concern about what games am I going to be doing, will I be involved, all of those things. But again, it's a little bit like the World Cup. If I was to worry about who's in charge and making the decision, you pull your hair out. It's like I just got to keep calling games and hope whoever's making those decisions

is like, you know, Keith does a good job selling the product, you know. But I honestly don't know. I don't know. I think everything's going behind like a paywall now anyway, like all the other leagues. Like Premier League has, you know, so many games with Peacock and ESPN Plus.

So it's not like it's uncommon. But I am interested to see how it's taken on by the casual fan. Because I think the importance of having, you know, linear programming as well on channels that are visible for everybody are there for, you know, a reason. But the argument that Apple could make and MLS could make is we've been on ESPN and Fox for a long time.

And MLS could argue they haven't made the jump in ratings that they want. They could say, well, look, we still, I still don't know. You know, like NFL, I know when it's on, Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon, they have the Monday night game. I know that. I'm not an NFL fan. But I still feel like at the weekend, I'm going, ESPN are doing the game. When is that on? There's no real home for MLS.

There's no real. That's the time I'm sitting down and watching an MLS game. So we'll see. We'll see if that happens now the Saturday evening kind of window. I hope it's successful, obviously, because I cover the league. But I think people can call it a gamble. Everything's a gamble, but I think it's a gamble that the league and the clubs kind of had to take, and I'm hoping it works out.

Okay. A few sounders questions since your wife. watching him every, every game. Jordan Morris was fantastic in 2019, 2020, as we all know, then tore his ACL at the beginning of 21. Look like he was still getting back up to speed when he played for the national team at the beginning of this year. Is he back to full speed now?

Yeah, I think he is. There's a couple of games. I work with Steve Zackawani, who, you know, Steve knows a lot about, you know, picking up an injury. And, you know, Steve was an electric winger in his day as well. and you know Steve's like

got a great eye for that position and you know I think it was yeah I think it was a way at Chicago where he said you know that was Jordan constantly trying to threaten the back line with his pace like gonged up players

there was a moment where Borenstein was 1 v1 and Jordan just knocked it and was gone and it's like you want to see that because you do have to test yourself again after an ACL and I don't care who you are mentally there's a part of that way you're saying you know

how do I accelerate again? Subconsciously, am I worried about picking up another injury? But I think Jordan has done a really good job this year of working his way in. And over the last few games, Colorado game as well, I thought he was the best player on the field.

Chicago way, even though we didn't win, was the best player on the field. So I definitely think we're seeing Jordan back to his best, threatening more, making runs in behind, taking players on. And, you know,

before he got that injury, he kind of developed an ability to go to his left and get crosses in with his left as well rather than just on the right foot. So look, any player, I still think there's areas that Jordan will want to improve. I think his movement off the ball, I think he would say he wants to improve that as well.

But last few games, I don't think there's any doubt now Jordan is back to full speed. Those runs he's making, well, like the run he made in behind to a central area to win that penalty against Dallas. Yeah. Is that a new development? Has he been doing this kind of all along?

I mean, speaking of offball movement. Yeah, no, I think he's added that to his game. I think he did in 2020. I think he started to do it a lot more. And there was kind of like, I want to go inside, so defenders would show him inside, so it was more difficult. But then he started to go, well, if you're going to show me inside or are going to give me my left foot, I can go out wide and get across him,

or I can take you on and get it back to my right foot. And he started to do that really, really well. I think now there's a willingness like if a player comes out and they have to honor him out why there's a real willingness

to attack space you know Freddie Montero who started the other night when he plays as a nine he drops in anyway and they have a good understanding of knowing that you know if Freddy's out of the space

you have to exploit the space Raul Ruudiaz drops in a little bit as well but it almost becomes like to a front with Raul when he plays but I definitely think he's added it to his game. And it's an area he has to keep doing. Like it has to be every game to be a constant threat in behind because he is, he is

pacey. But I think he has done a good job of kind of evolving that and adding it to his game as he's, as he's progressed throughout his career. You think he'll go, he'll be on the plane to Qatar for the national team? Yeah, I hope so. You know, I think, I think Jordan and Christian, like we were looking the other day because areola's on the other side, right? And you're going, I bet they're thinking when they play against each other, man, how many spots are there? You know, you got Wea, you have Aronson,

you have Christian, you know, but I think, I think he offers enough to play in those attacking roles to be, you know, because I don't think he's going to start, but he offers enough to be able to play a couple of those different roles and do them well. So I think he makes it, especially because you have an expanded squad this year as well. And I think he's one of those players that you might be saying, well, he's on the edge. But I think in certain games, you would bring him on, too, over others. So I think he provides a threat, you know, has to stay fit. You know, we'll see what others, how they play as well.

But right now I would say Jordan goes, yeah. What explains the difference between how good Christian Rodon looks for the Sounders and how sort of, I don't want to be unkind, but sort of average he looks. for the US. Yeah, that's unkind. I don't know if the roles are similar. You know, when you're Christian's a big part of the sounders, right? Like, you know, he's a leader within that group.

And when you go from that to being on the periphery of things, it can be difficult, you know, your mindset changes. I don't think there's a big enough body of work at the national team. level for Christian for for me to to say what his role would be you know if you're playing central midfield they'd have him behind

Tyler you know West and all of those things out wide then he's he's going into a whole different ballpark as well I haven't seen him play enough games and enough minutes for the national team to

critique him and when he has played it's been the wholesale change team where everybody comes in and And then it's like, oh, the whole team lacked rhythm. Why? Well, probably because they've never played together before and those kind of things. What I think Christian brings is, again, flexibility. Christian can play right back.

Christian can play right wing. Christian can play Central Midfield. And what I like about Christian is, he's, I don't want to say he's, you know, embrace the role, but like he's been a good teammate to his team as well. Like you need someone who'll say, look, I want to play. And he is pissed that he doesn't play. But I'm going to be a, you know, a positive, you know, teammate in this situation. And if things, if you need me, I'm there, you know.

And I think that's important because you don't want to bring somebody who's, I should be playing ahead of that guy and alienating themselves in the group. So I think, I think Christian, you know, massive player for the Sounders has done a really good job for the Sounders. at the national team level it's been difficult because there is some really good players in the positions that he plays and when he has played yeah I would argue

that it's not a big enough window to make a decision on his international performance but the fact that you keep calling him back in suggests that you know Greg values what he brings to the group as well

yeah back to the youth national team real quick uh Obed Vargas is he good or just good for a young player yeah no I know what you mean

I know what you mean. You're like, oh, well, he's 16 and he's doing that. You're like, okay, well, if a 25-year-old was doing that, would I be saying, well, right? That's what you mean. No, I mean, look, we struggled when he got injured. You know, he came in. I mean, he came into, this is what, okay, for me, I've scouted for U.S. soccer. So what I look for in a player, obviously ability on the ball.

But I look for a player that wants the ball. And the first few games I watched the Obed play. I always remember Stephen Gerardt coming on for Liverpool at 18, 19. him. Please, I'm not comparing them, Stephen Gerard. I'm comparing the situation. So Gerard came on and he was like, give me the ball, give me the ball. He was like, I want it.

I want it. I remember Paul Lynch playing him the ball. Obed when he comes on and when he's played, he wants the ball. So in the CCL games early, he wasn't coming on the field to not make a mistake. And young players do that. If I hide, I don't make

mistakes. Oh, I did okay. He's like, give me the ball. getting the ball, turn and passing it. And that, it was immediately stood out to me. And the final and the CCL final, Joe Paolo gets injured, 10 minutes in, massive blow. Because Jao Paulo, I could argue, is the most influential player in the Sounders squad right now.

And Obed comes in, and the same thing. Wanted the ball, closing down. There was a great moment against Leon, where there was a, this isn't about his ability on the ball. but Chapo Montez tried to turn and he absolutely hammered into Chapo wins it and I'm going anybody who's watch League

and makes no Chapo is like a legend for a long time you know Obed you know Obed's family knows who he used There was, the look to me like Obed was like I want to go out and have a dig at Chapo no I want to be on the same field as

Chapo do you know what I'm saying and that made me think he's got something about him now you have to develop because we've all seen the 16 year old who isn't the great 20 year old and you're like oh, you know, what happened there.

But he's in a good place. You know, the academy staff of the Sounders are good people. Wade, with the defiance is a really good mentor. And there's, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to group them because I haven't made his decisions. But the fact that the Sounders didn't make a midfield move at the transfer deadline suggests they have high expectations for Obed. Why bring in a player who's, you know, we feel. is going to be behind Obed and Jao Paolo

so I think he's really, really good. There's elements to his game that he's going to have to develop if he's an eight, if he becomes an eight and a box-to-box player, he has to be more of a goal threat

for sure. But in terms of wanting the ball, use of the ball, competitiveness, and a willingness to learn, yeah, he's got all of that. I'm excited for him. Awesome.

Is he, what's the latest on his injury? Is he close to coming back? care. Yeah, I don't. I saw him at the stadium today. I said hello briefly. I didn't want to get into it. But I don't know if a timeline has been put on that injury. I don't believe he's back in training as of yet. But I think at that age as well, not uncommon to have kind of back injuries and, you know, like joint injuries as well. So hoping it's sooner rather than later, I think there's an expectation he'll be back at some stage this year. But I haven't heard a timeline on it, no. Okay. Well, last question. It feels to me like just even in the past couple weeks, the energy for soccer, I mean, naturally the season is starting in Europe is really ramping up and seems like it's going to keep ramping up all the way until November. What's your feeling about, you know, the future of the game in America? How are you thinking about that? Is it about to take off or is it already taken off? What's going on? Yeah, it's such a difficult question because it's like there's so many sports that are ingrained in the culture here that you're like, how can you overtake sports? So I've never kind of liked that comparison.

But I think as a spectator sport, as it going to the event, I think I think soccer's up there. I really do in this country. I think people enjoy the event of I'm going to go. I'm going to have an incredible time. oh my god football fans are mental look at them they sing non-stop those kind of things on the tv side of things we've a way to go i mean we do because we don't seem to be capturing you know the numbers that we should um on a on a tv broadcast and maybe that's why there wasn't more suitors or you know a massive massive deal for tv rights um for the for mLSs

So, you know, you look at Champions League, you look at Premier League, they do quite well. So I do think there's an audience there for it. But how do we tap into that, you know, for MLS? I don't know. I think we have to continue to work hard. The league, you know, you can't compare. How old are we now as a league, 25, 26 years old? The steps, I look at MLS and every, if I could take it in five-year increments, we're better every time.

We're evolving. Even five years ago, like MLS didn't do a good job of understanding how to sell players, how to identify young players to bring in and then potentially sell on. We're seeing all of those things. So we're catching up really well. And other leagues maybe don't have that infrastructure we do, you know,

where we can say, you know, let's take on the Belgian league for being a league that attracts young players, the French league and then selling players on those kind of things. I think we're improving in that. Then the next step in is, well, we're not just going to sell to anybody. We can demand fees. We're not like greater young player, five million he's gone.

And we sell a player for 30 million, 40 million. Those are the next steps. And does that capture the audience more at home? I don't know. It's a really, really tough one. But in terms of game day experience, I would argue that, you know, I would argue it's there. You know, it's just that Rose Bowl, $93,000 for, for, Real Madrid's game, you know, Angel City when you look at what they're doing, you know,

you know, Charlotte coming into the league this year. I think game day experience for fans, it's right up there and we continue to do a really good job of making that game day experience inclusive for everybody. That's a good point. I used to live in Minnesota and went to a few Minnesota United Games. That's a team that's not always been that good. But the game day experience there is always lovely. It's incredible.

Yeah. Yeah, great stadium there as well. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, thank you for what you're doing. You're helping people understand the game better, and we appreciate it. And thanks for coming on the podcast. No, I appreciate it.

And look, thanks for what you do as well, because it's forums, you know, that you have that are really important to the game, too. For me, that grows the game. You know, executives have their ideas. Here's what we want to do. But for me, I look at, like, the Amfield rap, you know, at Liverpool, you know,

It's the fans that, you know, I want to hear the fans voice. You know, I know if I tune in to your podcast, I'm going to hear real. I'm going to hear honesty. You're not, you know, selling an agenda, anything like that. And, you know, feel free to criticize me at any time as well. I'm not someone that has thin skin, but, you know, we appreciate what you do as well. So keep doing what you're doing. Awesome.

Well, I'm not going to criticize you at least until the World Cup because I want you to come on the podcast during the World Cup. All right. For sure. Take care, Keith. Appreciate it. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you.