Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #330: Canada, Costa Rica and Mexico's chances at the World Cup with Jon Arnold

Episode Date: October 28, 2022

It's a Conca-Catchup with Jon Arnold. We also talk a fair amount about the USMNT. Canada and Costa Rica in difficult groups, the U.S. and Mexico less-so, and that's really the big differentiator.Sign up for Jon's newsletter: https://getconcacafed.substack.com/----Scuffed is an ad-free podcast. Support that and get exclusive episodes (more than 50 so far this year) by signing up for our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffed  Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the SCuff podcast where we talk about U.S. soccer. We've got John Arnold here today, author of the Getting Concafx newsletter. A Must Read Dispatch for anyone who follows soccer in this region. I'll put the link in the show notes. I encourage you to sign up and check it out. He's been kind enough to agree to help us get a good sense of how the other Concaf nations are doing heading into the World Cup. John, how you doing, man? I'm good. I'm good.

Always happy to hang out. You know, missed you a little bit after the qualifiers. but good to be here. And it's busy. I mean, we're already doing a lot of previews stuff, getting some newsletter stuff set and doing some stuff for other outlets. So it's almost here, man.

It's crazy. I kind of can't believe it. But it doesn't matter if I believe it or not. Those games are started November 20th. Yep. Yeah, less than a month. I've got a bunch of listener questions. I'll try to ask them all.

Appreciate everybody who sent in a question. And I've got questions of my own. But first, a non-world Cup one. Jorge Castillo in the Bay Area asks, what are your three favorite Concaf stadiums you've visited? Yeah, I need to get to more. It's expensive to travel in this region, as I think U.S. fans looking up trips will know. I think El Volcan in Monterey, where Tigres play, is up there for me. I think that's one of the best.

The Romel in Panama, because of the environment, because of Panama, Panama City is a really unique. a place in unique soccer culture. I'll put that in there. And a bit of a homer pick, I still love Kansas City. And whenever there's a qualifier or a Gold Cup game or anything in KC, it's always a treat to be there.

I really like the stadium. A little far from the city, but I think it's like a really good experience. And maybe this is like journalism bias as well, because it's like, oh, it's easy to get the press box and the press folks that are always friendly. but yeah, give me K-C is my favorite U.S. stadium. I love that stadium too.

I saw the U.S. played Jamaica there in 13, I think. And man, it was. Were you? Yeah, it was a beautiful day, beautiful stadium. All right. Speaking of Kansas City, balls in Kansas City, Missouri asks, so not on the Kansas side, but on the Missouri side, do you have a favorite Concaf storyline heading into this World Cup?

What is it? And who is it about? I guess those are the same question. But what is it? I think we'll get into Canada. But I think like Canada as a whole and how it's growing into the soccer country ahead of its timeline is really fascinating to me, something I hope to dig into. You know, this is a country that obviously made the World Cup one other time, but in very different soccer landscape, very different Concord Calf landscape. and I'm just really interested in how you see all these different players come up.

You know, I think for the U.S. we've been planning this for so long, right? MLS Academies, et cetera, et cetera. I know Canada is an MLS country as well. Please don't send me you. Please don't. But I just think that like it just came more off the radar. And even some of the players like Davies coming from, you know, obviously Vancouver product, but coming from Edmonton, guys born in totally different places, guys coming up in Ottawa,

you know, these players emerging from these non-MLS markets, non-traditional markets, or being recruited in because of how exciting the project is, how that's coalescing and coming together and maybe changing the culture of Canada. As a sports country as a whole, I think is super, super interesting. Yeah, it is. I mean, I think, you know, I just try to put, try to put on my objective hat. I think Canada's success in qualifying. And they do have a tough group.

We'll get into what they face here, a minute. Dave in Worcester, Massachusetts asks, what would you consider more important for the region, one team making it deep into the knockouts or multiple teams showing well in the group and maybe losing multiple teams to the first knockout round? Talking about important for Concaf. Right. Yeah, I think it's funny because you look back at 2014 is this massive success for Concaf in 2018 is a bit of a step back. And part of that is that Costa Rica made that run in 2014 that was from so far off the radar, you know, winning the group with three former World Cup winners in it

and making it as far as I did. You know, I think that that run highlighted what they could do, but also you had other teams having success. So I guess in a lot of ways, if you can get both, then you can definitely declare it a successful World Cup for the region. I think that might be getting greedy this time around. I would say as a measure of kind of overall health of the region, to me it'd be better for three of the four teams to make it out of their group and losing the first round.

I just think that would probably show more than if the U.S. makes a great run or if Canada makes a great run or Mexico or Costa Rica. Because to me that just says more about one country and what that manager or that team or that group of players is able to do with that specific time. whereas if you have a couple teams hanging in there, it's like, you know, yeah, qualification is tough in this region, and we're going to beat you guys when it really matters, even if you don't advance to the final rounds. I think that would be a better indication of the health of the region being strong, but as we'll get into, I do have my doubts.

You know, it's a weird time, and I think, like, one of the things we haven't seen a lot of is cross-confederation play, We're going to talk about that with Canada. They played no one from outside Comcaf until this last friendly window for years, literally years. And so it's tough to get that measuring stick because we know what we have mostly in this region. But how does that stack up against other confederation's measuring sticks? We don't really know. So I'm, you know, I think that for me, that sort of sustained success from all teams would be more interesting as a regional level.

level. Yeah. Also more realistic. It seems it's hard to see anybody making a deep run from Concaf. That's my opinion. Let's start with Costa Rica. They're in a group with Spain, Germany, and Japan. Murderous, you know, from a Costa Rican perspective, very glad the U.S. isn't in that group. But is there any reason for optimism? I mean, any, like, any reason. I don't know. I mean, I think, like, you had this really young group. that we saw emerge late that we talked about when they played the U.S., you know, all of a sudden there are these young guys who were not being really taken into consideration or called in for the first half of qualification that suddenly are in and are playing well

for the second half of qualification. But the group is rough. I mean, it's like not only did you get a really terrible group. You also did it after winning the playoff. You know, Costa Rica had this very nervous. one-off game in Qatar without their fans backing them as you've been able to have in previous playoffs where you had the two legs they win and yeah the prize is hey cool it's two top European teams and Japan so I think it's it's rough right it's really rough and and reasons for optimism

I think are just that hey you got here pressure's certainly not on and you have this group of young players who are hungry to to emulate what the group did in 2014 The other one, of course, is we'll talk about a little more is you got Kele-Navas, and he's one of the best goalkeepers in the world. You saw him keep him in games in qualification. You've seen him keep them in games in other situations.

So, you know, I guess maybe that's, you know, if you're looking for the formula, how does Costa Rica Rica advance for this group? I think it's Keelor genius plus scrappy goals equals surprise second place qualification. But it doesn't look great, to be honest. So Robin Avington, Maryland asks, is this Kaler Navas's last game for Costa Rica? Is this, you know, are his games at the World Cup going to be his last games for them?

Some of the guys in that generation have already said, this is it. You know, Brian Ruiz clearly doesn't have much left in the tank. He's said goodbye to his club or we'll be saying goodbye with the Conccaf Lee final coming. I think like he and some of the other kind of old standards are definitely gone. Calor has been interesting because he kind of plays for the national team when he knows he needs to, but otherwise doesn't. So I wonder if the combination of him playing a specialty position as a goalkeeper where typically we see guys who are his age or older still play. He's 35. He's still playing at the, you know, when he plays. He's still playing at the top top echelon of European soccer.

I wonder if he says, you know, I'm good to go for another cycle. but he also, like I said, is a guy who kind of does what he once makes him sound like a cocky or like arrogant dude. I think he just recognizes the place that he has in the Costa Rican team, in Costa Rican society, and sort of is happy to fill that role as much as he needs to and maybe no further. But I think when you look at what qualification might look like next cycle, it might be tempting to a couple guys in that category because you, in theory, won't have any games against the North American teams which are hosting the next tournament. So as far as I know, I could have missed something, but I haven't seen him say this is it,

but I also haven't seen him say, you know, oh, yeah, I'm going to be going to be pushing forward. So we'll see. I wouldn't be surprised if this is it because of the history he has of not playing in Gold Cup, in friendly matches, you know, other things that he doesn't sort of need to travel for because he's the number one. He's the best player. You know he's going to be there. So I wouldn't be stunned if it's it for him, but I think it's very much up to him.

I mean, they have a good young goalkeeper coming up too, right? It's always going to be a drop off from novice to the next guy. Patrick Cicada is like clearly this guy who you could put in pretty quickly coming from the Supriza system as well. There's other young goalkeepers. They're former Costa Rican goalkeepers running goalkeeper academies. I think that like the Kaler effect quietly is that there will be a whole ton of young goalkeepers. kids who watched him in 2014 that want to be him. We haven't necessarily seen a huge wave of goalkeepers yet,

but I do think just when I was there for the qualifier, talking to people, and they're like, man, yeah, we've got goalkeeper-specific academies, and I'm explaining Kaler's place in society and how boys and young men look up to him because of what he did for the national team in 2014 specifically, but even later, I think you will see more and more kids who want to be Kaler. So, you know, if there is a, you know, whether it's Sikyria or someone else, like if he sees the guy to pass the gloves to, he might exit stage right kind of in a ceremonial way.

Okay. A Coast Creek is scheduled a friendly for November 17 against Iraq. That's three days before the World Cup starts. Why didn't, I mean, this is, this is me going back to my roots here, but why didn't the U.S. schedule a friendly for November 17? Like, why isn't everybody doing that? I mean, Mexico plays Iraq as well, which is just, you know, one of those like only in soccer, right? It's like, which is better, Mexico or Iraq, you know, it's the old Simpsons bit. So that'll be fun.

They've got another game. Canada has two games. I'm not sure. I really don't know. I think it's, you know, look, you're always kind of like, what if someone gets injured? But I think players will, I expected to have the NBA All-Star game vibes. of, hey, we all know what we need to happen here. We know Iraq knows why they're here.

Although I can't profess to say I'm knowing what the Iraq team is looking like or thinking. But I think like, you know, teams who are playing these pre-World Cup friendlies know what they're supposed to do. Honduras is playing a pair which like, you know, with Honduras's reputation, it's like, ooh, that's who you scheduled. A couple of Middle Eastern teams are bringing them over. So, yeah, that'll be interesting. But I think for the most part, it's just like, to me it's good, too. You don't have much time to get ready for this tournament.

You know, we've got the guys, the U.S. has the guys up here in Dallas-Fort Worth who are training, trying to keep fresh. Other countries are figuring out if our domestic league is over, what do we do with these guys? So I think the friendlies are a good idea, and I'm surprised the U.S. didn't do something a little more aggressive there. Well, I want to spotlight Jusen-Bennett. Is that the right way to say that? Yusin-Binnett. U.S.N. Bennett. he's been you know he was he was really bright against the u.s in that final qualifier i thought and then

he's been playing well off the bench for sunderland had a very bright cameo um a week or so ago against blackburn i haven't i haven't checked up on him since then left footed only 18 i think you know tell us a little bit about him because i think you know if you're going to turn on a cost Rika game at the World Cup, you're going to want to look for something. Everybody knows Joel Campbell. Tell us about Benet. Yeah, he's a player who scored his first national team goal and then did it again in the friendlies against Korea.

I think has some confidence from that move to Sunderland. When you go to a team that people recognize, it's good. It helps you. It makes you feel confident. One of these players from the Erriiano system that's really churning out a lot of guys. who are going to be part of this Costa Rica team. You know, did well there, obviously, did well on the national team level and earns the move. But it was a shifty player, I think.

Good, you know, good change of acceleration, which I think was what you see on the goals. And, yeah, the left foot is clearly the strength. And I think, you know, he is a fun player to watch. There's a couple guys in that kind of category where Costa Rica is going to have some unfamiliar players who are good, who are technical. I do wonder with him and with some of the others, like, do they do enough going the other way against World Cup competition to protect you, right?

Right. Although, again, we talked about, Kaylor's the back line. You've got a, you know, Kaler's the back wall. You've got the back line that's relatively experienced. So I think you can give these guys a little more freedom than maybe even they were getting qualification, especially now with the experience of playing in,

while not the top, top competition of England, still a very good one. So he's a player that absolutely. absolutely will contribute, it absolutely be important and gives more of an attacking dimension than I think we thought Costa Rica would have a year ago. Okay. So a little bit. I mean, like you mentioned, he scored the two goals in the two-two draw against South Korea,

which, you know, transitive property isn't perfect in this case, but, you know, maybe they can give Japan a game. Maybe they can steal a result against Japan. Where are the goals going to come from for Costa Rica to the extent that the goals come? Yeah, I mean, they were so dependent on Campbell for so long. Anthony Contreras, another Eridiano current player, emerging as an option to start alongside him or to start as the nine and Campbell shifting out to the wing,

has given Costa Rica a lot of tactical flexibility and attack that they didn't have for the first half of qualification when they weren't calling in these younger guys. I don't know that necessarily I would expect Contreras to score a lot, but I think the attention that he draws, the way he occupies centerbacks and just the partnership play that he can have with Campbell, with Benet coming forward, with some of the other players who will be involved, it really gives Costa Rica something that they were lacking because, you know,

you can't ask Campbell to do it all, and they were asking him to do it all in attack for a really long time. You know, it was a bit of a running joke for me that Kendall Lawston was Costa Rica's second best attacking player because they would throw him big, big center back people remember him from my memory. They would throw them on as an emergency forward for like the last 10 minutes of games they were chasing and like it often resulted in in a goal or a chance. And so now the fact that you can point to Contreras, that you can point to Bennett, you can point to Aguilera potentially coming in and creating something late, that you can point to these other guys that are coming through. I think it just gives an extra dimension to Costa Rica that they really have been lacking. And so I think the goals still come from Campbell, to be honest. You know, I think the other thing is this is a good free kick team.

So So Vortges can hit it. You've seen Kendall Waston, again, is a threat in the box. Their centerbacks are good in the air, good at winning balls, both in their own box and in the attacking side. So I think, you know, if you're a manager scouting, you're like, man, do not, do not foul these guys in a dangerous area because that's where they could really do damage. And of course, if you get a first 15 minute, first 20 minute free kick that they convert, then all of a sudden they're happily back into the posture that they showed for a lot of the World Cup qualification where, hey, beat us, beat, beat, beat Navas and see what happens. So, you know, again, which is kind of the formula in 2014 as well. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.

And finding those transition moments maybe, you know, it's a different team. But, yeah, you still see some of those characteristics for sure, especially with some of the veteran players. they have. So yeah, I think Contreras just really brings that other dimension that that Costa Rica lacked. Does he do enough? Probably not yet. And I don't think it's fair to expect him to, right? He's 22, but really, really still fresh on the international stage. So, like, our whole or my whole narrative about Costa Rica going into qualification was his generational change. How quickly are you going to find guys to replace Brian Ruiz, Selsa, Juarez, Navas, Kendall was these veterans. And it was like, not at all and then all at once.

And so the fact that you have these guys coming through is very bright for 2026 and could be bright for 2022, I think, if they didn't have this ridiculous drug. Yeah. Okay. Well, all the best to Costa Rica, I do. I'm rooting for them against all their opponents. Devin and State College, Pennsylvania, asks, to you. your knowledge, how do fans of the other

concaf teams cheer during a World Cup when it comes to the other regional teams? Like, do Tico's fans cheer for or against the USA or Mexico? I would say that the USA and Mexico specifically are not very loved. When I've

traveled in Central America and some in the Caribbean, it sort of varies by country which you hate more. Some of that is about politics, as the who has invaded your country and backed a coup. If so, you probably don't like the U.S. very much.

Are you tired of seeing Mexico win and had controversial games against them? Maybe you go against Mexico. When it comes to the World Cup, I think it is person by person. You know, just like bull season in college football where you have this sort of like universal support for, you know, I'm a big 12 guy to go Texas Tech. I'll like hold my nose and roof for Texas if our, like, our bull record is about to be 6 and 0 or 7 and 0 or something.

but like if I think it'd be really funny that they lose a game or like the big 12's already been garbage or tech didn't even qualify like you know I'll definitely root against them I think it's the same way in Concaf where it's like in a certain you know like US versus England England is not all that beloved either I mean it's not like hated like in Argentina but like I think in Mexico Central America people have these freaking guys are always complaining and they think they're on the game and all those sorts of feelings that maybe we have as well you know maybe the people will support the U.S. against England, but I definitely think it's kind of a case-by-case basis

like you see in college football season where some people are like, let's all support our brothers, our fellow state representatives, and some people are like, it'd be so funny if these guys would lose. I don't think there's a lot of love for U.S. and Mexico. I think everyone will be pulling for Costa Rica.

I think everybody would be pulling for Canada just because they're new and different and they haven't sort of had enough time to have those nasty feelings grow. But otherwise, I don't think people are back in the stars and stripes of Elkrie. Okay. Interesting.

All right, let's talk about Canada. In a group with Belgium, Croatia, and Morocco, also seems quite difficult to me. They beat Qatar 2 to 0, and then they lost to Uruguay 2 to 0 in the last international window in September. They're basically playing Davies as a free number 10. and then a three-man back line, and then two-wing backs and a two-striker setup of Laren and David, Jonathan David, which seems like it makes sense.

They dominated Qatar. I thought got an early header from Laren on an out of Cugbet Cross, and then, I mean, some pretty poor defending from Qatar. And then against, and then David scored later. And then against Uruguay, they lost on a really nice set piece from Nelson Delacruz and then a header from Darwin Nunez

on a cross from Luis Suarez. But interestingly, I think they, well, they definitely did generate more shots than Uruguay and probably in part because they went down early. Yeah. I wouldn't say any of their chances were great, but it's not like they were dominated in that game, which... No, I think, yeah, the Nicolas de la Cruz goal changes the game state, right? And all of a sudden, you're like, well, what's this going to look like? I was actually, you know, I was really fascinated by Canada's friendlies because... As I mentioned, you know, I think it had been, it was definitely before the pandemic and it had been some time before then even since Canada had played any team from outside the Concorda Calf region.

I actually found the number and tweeted it, but I don't have it now. It's okay. It's just a, thanks, man. Thanks for understanding. It'd been a really long time since they played anyone from outside the region. And that was what John Hurdman was talking about, you know, when he was, he was, you know, giving his pre-match comments. You know, there have been so many things. It's funny because Canada has this reputation both politically and I think it's a soccer nation

where I was saying like why wouldn't you support Canada? They're inoffensive, friendly, et cetera. First of all, their team had a lot of bite during the World Cup qualifiers. But second, you know, they've had this turmoil with the FAA agreement and the game that they tried to schedule against Iran, which then was canceled because of political reasons. So in a lot of ways, their preparations, I think, have been limited. I think a game like a country like Iran would have really helped. I get the political realities of it.

I understand why people were frustrated. But a game against a team like that would have been a big help. And so you did have these two games. I think we'll see, you know, Herdman is such an interesting guy, and he's so intense in his preparation. Not that other managers aren't, but I think he just has a different level

because I think, you know, I profiled him this year for ESPN in a piece that I think turned out really well and gave hopefully good insight into what I learned from talking to him and people around him, which is that he just knows. Like, he's never been a top-level player. You know, he's not like any of these managers who have played at the top level. And I think he sees that his only edge, really, is working harder, is figuring out what are the weaknesses of the other team and what are the strengths of his.

And so I think that you will see Davies deployed, you know, in different roles like we saw during qualification. and that's always the tell of how Canada's going to play. If he's in more of a defensive posture, they're going to be sitting back some looking for transition moments, relying on the gut of the midfield. If he's in that sort of creative role, they're going to look for some options, look for some goals. So I think it was instructive to see those friendlies,

see that even against a team with the pedigree of Uruguay, although they weren't amazing in South American qualification, still kind of was a team that Canada, felt they could go toe to toe with. So I do wonder kind of what the strategy will be in the group stage. I think Hartman already has it planned out to a T. Now it's about executing and if that plan is correct. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, Uruguay really struggled in qualifying, but then came on really strong at the end, right, after they fired Tabarez. Yeah. Laestro, I mean, you know, everyone, that guy's a legend. He was awesome, but everyone, I guess everyone reaches that point, right? So, yeah, I think, you know, I'm not, this isn't a congev group, but I don't think they're going to get through their group this time around. But, yeah, it's still a good team and a team that you strategize for and say,

this is a good. I mean, the U.S. played in the summer as well, right? We know Uruguay is their Uduuguay. It's an unbelievable story real quick. Like, you know, the population's all small, et cetera, et cetera. It is an example. It is an example. But I don't think they're amazing this time.

We'll see. Federico Valverde, you know, one of the best players in the world right now, quietly. But I would think, I would, I feel pretty confident his ability to control the right side of the field for Real Madrid is something. Anyway, that's not what we're here to talk about. Denson Jenkins in central Kentucky asks if Canada had Burrhalter and the USA had Herdman. How much better off with the USB and vice versa? First of all, I love this question. I was like, whenever you read the commenter's name, I wasn't ready for a listener question.

I was like, who is that? I don't know who that is. I thought he was like, I don't know where that was going. I love this question. I think it's really an interesting thought exercise. Again, you know, I think it comes off that I'm a fan of Herdman's. I think he just does things in a job. I'm a fan of Hurdman's too.

I mean, I think most U.S. fans are. Like, he's impressive. Yeah, and there are times where like he does. get it wrong you know I think of the the Gold Cup 2019 where Canada you know kind of thought they had this big master plan to to get to Mexico and then potentially beat Mexico in the knockouts and they held back a lot of things during their in their group stage and they end up losing Haiti and it's like that wasn't in the plan so I mean I think there are times where like you know there's a little bit of

hubris and a little bit of arrogance but it definitely is paid off right when you look at the way they got through qualification it's the way that you would want to have done it. And they just had this long journey that I think helped them come together in a lot of ways. Look, like, I'm not even a Burrhalter detractor, really. I think he does a lot of good things. There's a lot of things that he tries that I would try. But I do think, to be honest, like, I think if Hurdman had the U.S. team,

I think with fresh eyes, with preparation and the way that he has, like, learned to do it, you know, with his experience in the women's game. I think he just has a really fresh mindset to international soccer that would be something different. And I think the U.S. would benefit from that because I think, you know, especially after missing in 2018, it was, I wanted more. I wanted a different total overhaul, total reset. And I think Erdman, with those outside eyes, with the experience that he had, would bring

that and then would bring a different type of game planning to the U.S. because I think he looks at his pieces like we're saying with Davies. He's an unbelievable piece and I don't know that there's a player that the U.S. has in its system that's like Davies where you could say, play a wingback and he does it, play centerback, he probably could, play central midfield, he does it, play the 10 and he does it, right? He's a unique player and so that in some ways, Hurdman's success has been because of Davies and because this whole generation rises up, he has a really good number nine, he has a really good backup number nine when you look at Jonathan David and Kyle Leran.

Players that, you know, the defense was always a weakness. He recruited a couple of guys who were eligible and then all of a sudden they're looking good. So, you know, there's some of the success, I think, can be explained away, quote unquote, by this generation of players that you could stick, you know, manager X and is a win over replacement manager. Is that high for Hurdman? Maybe not.

But I think he's managed it in a really intelligent way. So I'm kind of talking around the hot take of, yeah, the U.S. would be better with her enough. Yeah, I think. Agreed. Agreed. I think there was a vice versa in there. Burrhalter and Canada would be interesting

because I think he also would have plenty of, like, creative ways to deploy Davies and, like, would end up with a different looking system, but like sort of trying to do some of the same things. You know, I think you would definitely see him emulate, like, I know what he tried with Tyler Adams, maybe on the other side, which would be fascinating, but maybe not.

So I don't know. You'd also have him able to play. play with more of, again, like sort of a fix number nine, but like a guy who can do some of the things that he wants a forward to do, it'd be interesting. And I wonder if they'd be in a similar place. Again, like, I think Herdman's great. I think he'd be a fantastic manager. I mean, I'm really interested to see what he does next. But, like, could Burrhalter get Canada the same point? Maybe. It's a really good generation. And they've really come together and really congeal quickly. And he brings that same outside perspective and fresh eyes if he were going

to Canada that heard no one to the U.S. So, I mean, I guess like a little bit in defense of Greg, like I think he could probably be a good pair of hands to lead Canada too in this alternate world we're laying out. Okay. All right. Yeah, let's be friendly. You don't know. You don't know.

You don't know. You don't friendly to Greg. I don't know. I don't say nah. I just don't. I don't know, man. I still don't really understand. I just don't really understand what we're doing with the national team.

I'm not sure anybody does. Yeah. Yeah, I think like, yes, I hear that, right? But I think it's easier. Maybe I'm totally off. And certainly, like, national teams don't hire like this. But I think it's easier to draw out like a master plan. You know, when you look at like Das Riebut and like the German team, of course, it's like it is German guys,

but it's German guys with fresh ideas with different perspectives that came. And they said, hey, here's how we're drawing out the trajectory of this. And it's going to work. And it did. I think it's easier to do that from an outside perspective. It's easy to be that mad scientist coming in who's been, you know, living on the margins for five years, making a Frankenstein's monster of pressing systems. And then they're like, you know what, we actually need that. And then it's just something so different and so radical that it works.

You know, I'm not saying it has to be crazy. I just think that like those outside ideas so often are what can be successful in international football where the margins are so small and the actual sort of games that matter are so infrequent that it really can make the difference as far as like what is your long term. plan what are the ideas what is the trajectory i might be off on on this i'm i'm i'm i'm in a weird psychological place me too i i feel like with the u.s you say we say you know if you take what burrhalter says at face value which you probably shouldn't do you know but take all his words at face value we need to have a we need to have centerbacks who can defend from a high line we need to have centerbacks who can pass, you know, who can make passes so that we can build out from the back.

We can't set up a high line. Well, our problem right now is we can't set up a high line. Yes. Because our centerbacks can't pass well enough. And so it's all like, are we putting the cart before the horse? It's not all adding up. Yeah. And I think that's why like this culmination of this quote unquote long term vision feels

unsatisfactory because the results kind of were there. the U.S. is able to get back to the World Cup. We see the team achieve its goals. But when you go back to 2019, I think of that Mexico game a lot because I thought the Mexico absolutely played the U.S. off the field. And it's also sort of the turning, it's just before the turning point of Mexico, which is the boozy brunch that means chichita never comes back to the team

because of some other external factors. Their first loss under Tata Martino, so it's this big moment for them where they're riding high And then all of a sudden, they hit their first low of the Martino era. But I think for the U.S., it's also a big moment because I was there after the game. Burrhalter basically said, no, we played a good game. And they didn't. And so you say, hey, what's the disconnect here?

What is he seeing that we're not seeing? And sometimes with managers, you get there, right? You get the answer. I think U.S. fans are still waiting for that answer. Not thinking actively about 2019, but I think saying, hey, this is what you've been saying this entire qualification cycle. This is what you've been saying since you took over. why are we not seeing the results on the field in 2022 when it matters, November 2020, which is four days away as we're talking, three days away.

And we're still in this mode of like, hey, you're telling us that this is what we need and this is good. And yet, we're not seeing the things that you're telling us reflected on the field. I think that's where the frustration comes from. And I get that. If he were Canada manager, it wouldn't happen. He'd be great. Okay. All right, Logan North in Fort Mitchell, Kentucky.

So we got a couple Kentucky questions. What expectation do you have for Canada at the World Cup? What do you think? Do you think they're going to get out of this group? No, I don't. And I like Canada. Again, I think Herdman's a really good manager. I think they're in a similar boat to the U.S.

where you look at this team and you say they're doing a lot of the right things. They didn't qualify last time around. 2026 seems like this exciting moment. And 2022, I think in a lot of ways, is just too early in the crest, in the bell curve. So I don't think Canada gets out of this group. I think it's going to be tough against some of the opposition. The lack of experience against teams from outside Conccaf is tough.

They couldn't do anything about it. It's not Canada's fault necessarily. Well, okay, they could have played some June friendlies. That would have helped. But, you know, I don't think they're going to look back if they get eliminated at the group stage and say, if we'd only played Iran, then we would have made it. I mean, I think Canada is what they are. They know who they are.

They have that identity. and it's just not good enough yet defensively for sure to get past top top teams, and that's what they're facing. So I think that it's a huge, huge step in the right direction. I think they get their first World Cup goal. I think they get their first World Cup point. Those are not small things, right? The U.S. and Mexico can take that for granted.

Most other nations in Concaf either have never qualified or have never scored or have never gotten a point or have never gotten a win. I think Canada gets at least two of those milestones, but I don't see them getting out of the group. And again, it's fine. This is too early for your success. It's all building toward 2026. Will that be the mentality of Canada soccer?

Will that be the mentality of the players? It'll be the mentality of the fan base. Maybe not, but from outside looking in with those quote unquote fresh eyes. I don't know how fresh my eyes are. But yeah, I think that they won't get out and it's okay. Don't panic. Stay the course. But it's not going to be, I don't see a Cinderella run.

Okay. Yeah. I guess if you had to map out a super optimistic scenario, they steal a point against Croatia, beat Morocco. I mean, you're not going to beat Belgium. Yeah, that's how I see it as well. Yeah, like, I think the reasonable expectation is if you get a win, it's against Morocco, and then maybe you can draw Croatia. And I don't see, I have a tough time seeing it.

I think, you know, I think both of those European teams are good. And I think Morocco is pretty feisty as well. So, yeah. Yeah. It's not going to be the same Morocco team that the U.S. beat 3-0 in June, I don't think. All right, let's talk about Mexico. They're in a group with Argentina, Poland, and Saudi Arabia. They beat Peru 1 to 0 and lost to Colombia 3 to 2 in the last international window.

What do they take away from those games in September? You write about Mexico a lot. Yeah, I think they took away that they are who we thought they were to borrow from another sport. You know, this is the same Mexico team that we saw in World Cup qualification, suffering to pay chances, and when they are created suffering to finish them, it was Irving Lozano with a kind of quirky goal late against Peru, and otherwise that one had all the makings of a scoreless draw. What kind of a goal was it?

A kind of what goal? Quarky. Okay. And then the Columbia game where, you know, they start off really well. They take the lead into the half, and then all of a sudden, they're getting smoked. I mean, and I think that that's like the risk of what could happen at the World Cup is even if Mexico plays well and keeps its shape and does the things that Tatum Martino wants it to do,

there are these moments where individual attackers are able to take advantage of Mexico's defense, of Mexico's fullbacks, especially. And I think, like, Mexico needs a little bit of luck to go its way to get results. and that's not a place where you want to be. So I think what do you take away from these games is like the team that we saw labor against El Salvador, against Honduras, against the U.S., against Canada during qualification, unfortunately for L3 fans, that wasn't a flute.

This is who they are. Yeah. You wrote a newsletter a couple weeks ago about Tata's weariness. Can you sort of expand on that a little bit? Yeah. Why is he so weary? I mean, the dude's done. He's tired.

He looks exhausted and not just look. I mean, I think he just is exhausted. You know, they unveiled the roster this week, although I also wrote a newsletter about how they didn't really unveils. It's 31 players, so kind of everyone you thought was going to be on there was on there. And like after the heat, so they get him up there to read the presentation. It's really funny because Tata, you know, everyone seen Tata. He's not like, it's not much for drama.

He goes up there and reads the name and they're playing this like, exciting, like pumping soundtrack behind him. And he, like, read everyone's names off. You know, he's got his pacing, right? He doesn't, like, embarrass himself. But then afterwards, he's supposed to say, like, a few remarks. And he basically is just like, well, all I really have to say is thanks to the support. See you.

And he, like, goes back and sits down. I'm like, that's it. And it's like, you can just tell he's not, like, ready to pump the Mexico fan up. He's not ready to give the press anything. I think he's just ready to do whatever he wants to do next. That's, like, hang out in Argentina and just chill. If he wants to go manage a club team, if he wants to go manage a club team, if he wants to come back to MLS, like I'm sure he'll have options because I don't think he's done

a terrible job with Mexico. I just think that he is done. I think he sees the same thing from his team over and over, and he gets the same questions from the press over and over. The other night, after one of those friendlies, a journalist asked like a pretty basic, like, tactical question, and Martino was like, if I could, I would come hug you. And it's just like, he just wants to talk soccer and, like, make his team better. And that's not the Mexico go job. It just isn't. And to be fair, like, he also hasn't really done enough interesting tactically to, like, sort of be giving cordiola, or BELSA or like, you know, these, these expositions. Like, it hasn't been Matt Tata Martinez master class. And so I wrote that newsletter just saying,

like, this dude is clearly done. Like, he's just tired. He's beat down by the job. He's beat down by his team not being able to get results. And you just feel like it's, you know, compared it to the book, Endurance, talking about Shackleton's like Antarctic expedition because I read the book and it's just like, things are good, we found food, things are bad. The storm blew in, things are bad, and now things are a little better and now things are bad again. That's Martino's experience. It's just this up and down of like, eh, it's looking better and it's bad and it's looking and it's bad. I just think he's in the cycle of like trudging along. At the end of it, spoiler, they get rescued. But I'm not sure there's a rescue from Mexico.

sitting in it. Well, I guess it's the, they can take comfort in the same thing that U.S. fans can take comfort in, which is that these, you know, it's three games. Anything can happen in those three 90-minute periods. Even with all their troubles and Martino's weariness, um, Mexican fans can be thinking, hey, we can beat Saudi Arabia and, you know, get a draw at least against Poland. No reason we shouldn't get out of this group, right? I think so.

I think there's a saying in Mexico, they played like never before and lost like always. And I think there's a possibility that we see that. I think we might see a really energized Mexico, a Mexico that once, you know, has this desire, is able to reflect the best of Tata Martino, like we saw at the start of his tenure. Because we saw a team that really understood his ideas tactically and executed them.

It's just, it hasn't really been clicking, and it didn't work even when some of the players that you thought were going to work out together, saw the field together. I'm talking about the attacking Trident of Raul Jimenez, Decatito Corona, and Irving Losano, three players playing at the team. a top top level.

I think you and I have talked about this before, Bells. Like, it just doesn't work, but we're not sure why. Tecateo unlikely to be healthy for the World Cup. They've got him on this 31-man roster, but, like, his club coach is saying, I don't see any way he makes it to the World Cup. He's coming back from a leg fracture and broken ligaments in his ankle. Like, to me, it just doesn't sound like the kind of thing you bounce back from in three, four months, but that's what he's trying to do.

Look, like more power to him. I hope he makes the World Cup. I hope he's healthy, but it just doesn't seem like. it's going to have. So, you know, in some ways, maybe the, the, the, how bad that attacking three has been compared to expectations, maybe is beside the point. But I think you could see Mexico, yeah, winning against Saudi Arabia, getting a result against Poland, qualifying to next round, except, oh, hello, if they, if everything goes to type, big if, it's the World Cup, anything can happen. They'd probably play France in the next round. So you have the same,

story as you do every single time where you do fine in the group stage, but not enough to maybe win the group, you play a really, really tough knockout game, and you're probably headed home before the Quinto Partido. I think the one thing for Mexico is, like, so often the narrative is pressure, mad fans, angry press, et cetera, et cetera, and that's like still kind of the narrative I'm setting up. If they made the Quinto Partido, it would be entirely unexpected. And I think like a real moment of joy and celebration and all of a sudden, like this team that everyone's sort of done with, the team itself included, becomes like these legends.

Yeah. Outside the realm of possibility. But it does feel unlikely because you don't like their chances against Argentina. You think Argentina's going to win the group. And if you have to play friends, like you don't like their chances there either. But, you know, maybe something goes screwy. And maybe Mexico does get that Quinto Partido. Suddenly, these guys are the most successful team on foreign soil in the World Cup.

and it would be unexpected, but it's possible. I have mixed feelings about it because I would like to see them succeed for the good of the region, but I don't really want them to get that Quinto Partido because it's a fun joke to, it's a fun joke to make it. That's what we're talking about. Like in bull season is what's the funniest loss that could happen to my rival? You got to kind of work out the scenario, right?

And I do think like, you know, if you're drawing out like a nightmare scenario for Mexico, they somehow, you know, maybe they draw Argentina in a scrappy game with Ochoa, doing his heroics, they win the other two. Argentina slips up somewhere else. Mexico wins the group, has an easier first round game and still loses, right? I think like 2018, being there in Russia was the year. And if they had done what they needed to do

in the last group game, they would have played Switzerland in the round of 16. And I think they win that game. Easily is the wrong word, but I think they win that game. Instead, they played Brazil. And that's a team you're not going to beat easily. So, yeah, I can see the same sort of thing happening. Right. I can see the same sort of thing happening.

I mean, that's my projection. I think they finish second in the group. I think they play France. I think they lose. And I think it's hit the reset button. Who's the next manager? What's the next cycle look like? Okay.

What about, so Takedito not likely to be healthy. What about Raul Jimenez? Yeah, Raul is working back as well. He's been, both of them actually, been in Mexico City. Their clubs released them to go train with the Mexico fitness staff to try and try and get ready. I'm more bullish on Raul. I think that he didn't have this long-term injury where you said, oh,

he's going to be out for X number of months and he's trying to beat that aggressive timeline. The thing is, if he does have a setback, if he doesn't, and even a healthy Raul at this point hasn't been what he was before his extremely scary head injury with Wolves against Chelsea.

But Martino said, I'm waiting until the very last minute to see if Raul gets fit, because the other options are not great. Funez Mori, naturalized Argentine, played from Monterey, lived in actually the Dallas area for a while,

is probably the next man up. As they center forward, he, I'll borrow the British phrase like flat-track bully. Like, he's scored in Gold Cup. He's scored in friendlies against mid-level teams, and he's done nothing in the more important games. So I don't, you know,

I don't know that you want him to be your starting night at the World Cup, And then they have this sort of battle for that third spot, I think, between Henry Martin of America, who had a really good domestic campaign. Sort of similarly has never broken out against top-top competition internationally. And Santiago Jimenez, who I've said for a while, is like sort of, you think of him as a Mexican pepi. Actually, a dual national with Argentina. His dad was a famous soccer player from Argentina, but they played at Mexico for many, many years. Broke out with Cruz Azul, went to the Air DeVise this year, and it's done pretty well.

So I think he's a player who fans won him. He's young. He's exciting. But I'm not sure Martino trusts in him yet. And so who gets that last spot? I think will be interesting, especially if Raul's not good to go. The indications to me seem like he'll be good and Tecatea won't, but I'm not a doctor. I'm not seeing how their progression goes.

Who knows? But they really, really need one of them to get fit, if not both. I think they probably get Raul. And that's critical, but he also hasn't been the same player. where goals come from is a huge question you know chokey's good for one or two but he's not going to win gold and boot and you mentioned

chichorito's boozy brunch can you can you refresh us on that like why is he exile from the national team is it self-exile yeah everything in Mexico everything might be unfair although it definitely extends to other end bits of society It's kind of confirmed rumor.

We don't, we never have, in the U.S., you'd have a statement. Or, you know, Berlter would say, this is why this player is not coming back, I think. In Mexico, it's just, hey, this is what people are reporting, and these guys usually know what's up, so we'll trust it. The story goes that after the U.S.-Mexico game in New York, Chittarito and a number of other veteran players, including Ochoa, Guardado, and Lyune. Two of whom will be on that roster.

Go to brunch. Fancy brunch in New York at an Italian joint. And it leaks. Pictures come out. It's not a good look. They were off. They were free to go, apparently. But the story goes.

Again, this is all allegedly, this is all whispers and rumors at Chichitrito, met some young ladies, invited them to join them, and sort of put administrative staff of the Mexican Federation in a bad place by either saying, you know, take care of these women or get them, it's unclear, right? Again, we don't know exactly what happened. Again, the story in the whispers say, Ochoa, and Werdado, go to Tata and say, hey, my bad, this is what I did wrong. I'm sorry.

It won't happen again. Eventually, Lyun apparently does too, because he comes back to the national team for a minute, although he's not at the level of play that he used to be to be on the team. And that apparently Chicharito has never done. I don't know if that's the whole thing. To me, it seems much more complicated than that. I've heard rumors, again, all rumors,

that some of the leadership, including Ochoa and Wardado had said, this guy's not good for the locker room. If he's not going to do what he needs to do in that situation, he's not going to do what he needs to do in other situations. They've come out and denied that. So, you know, it's one of those where we don't No 100%, but it seems pretty darn likely that it stems from this brunch.

Wow. Brunch, man. It's dangerous. Don't go to brunch, guys. That's the lesson. The lesson is don't go to brunch. Stay away from, I haven't had a brunch in many, many years. So I'm clean on that front.

Carlos Vela, what's the feeling about him in Mexico? I mean, he's getting pretty old. He's still quite good at soccer. it seems like they could use him on the national team. I think he would help the national team. I just think he, you know, he's a guy who even when he was younger and in his prime is like a weird one because he kind of seemed to hit his prime a little late, stayed away from the national team because of his own personal reasons because of disputes with the Federation.

Again, sort of this whisper network of confirmations and non-contramations, but wasn't involved, got involved in the Osorio cycle, went to the World Cup, and to me, he just, He said, you know, multiple times, hey, I've got to move over and let the young generation move in. I don't think he wants the attention. I don't think he wants the drama. And I think that he's a guy who, how is he viewed in Mexico? The average fan probably doesn't have a really positive opinion because he hasn't

rep the national team for his own personal reasons. I respect the reasons. I kind of, you know, I get it. And I think it's not that uncommon in international soccer for a place. to say like, hey, I'm retired, let the young guys do their thing. It's just that like when the team sort of needs that player, a lot of times they come kind of riding back in on the horse. But that's not Bella's style.

I don't think he was ever going to be involved in the cycle. You know, we know that Martino and him sat at a Starbucks together because we saw a photo when Martino was kind of starting his cycle. And I think they've sat and chatted several times. And my impression is that Martino would want Vel in the national team but sort of says if you don't want to be here, fine. Like obviously he's not going to, you know, can't make someone do something they don't want to do. I think that's where, that's where Martinez is there.

I think so the impression, the view generally from fans, I don't think is overwhelmingly positive toward Bella. I think it's very much, oh, he's so fancy. He thinks he's so great. He's, you know, doing his own thing because he's rich and famous and likes his life in L.A. or wants to be Spanish instead of Mexican. You know, that's a charge you hear sometimes people level. but ultimately I mean

I think it's interesting the way that Vela has made his decisions he's always stood by them are they the right or the wrong ones I don't know but that's why you don't see Vela and that's what people think of it he looks healthy and happy to me

so you know more power to him last question about Mexico what do you make of the fact that Julianarajo didn't make even the practice squad for this World Cup he didn't make that 15 member squad. None of the, what's that?

They call it the sparring. Okay, the sparring squad. Yeah. Yeah. None of the Mexican Americans who one time switched to Mexico or anywhere close to this team. What does it mean for, I realize this is kind of a leading question,

but what does it mean for dual national battles in the future because they're going to keep happening? Yeah, no, they definitely will keep happening. That's something I always try and underline. You know, when you look at the demographics of this country, when you look at youth academies around the country, there's a lot, a lot, a lot of talented young guys who are going to be able to choose one or the other

who are going to be courted by both federations. I think Araujo, like to me, he didn't have a very good season with the Galaxy. I don't think it's a massive surprise that he's not involved. He did, I think, it's easy to look and be like, oh, you didn't make the roster, you made the wrong choice, but you also have to play your way onto the roster. In Mexico had a couple other fullbacks have great seasons,

Kevin Alvarez with Butchuka, get to win a title it certainly looks like you know some other guys who emerged Jorge Sanchez made a big move to iax you know these are the competition's there it's going to be strong and i don't think it matters if you're mexican american or mexican argentine like santi himine or if you're you know chilango for mexico city born and bred like if you're not the best 31 players you're not going to make the 31 player cut and i don't think at Aalho is in that category. It will depend on the next manager,

kind of how they view MLS, how they view complicated issues of nationality and identity. But I don't know that this plays a role in the future. I think the players will still back themselves, be confident that they can make rosters. Maybe the U.S. tries to get in their ear. But if you don't play your way onto the roster, it doesn't matter where you're from,

you're not going to be at the World Cup. Right. Yeah, I think about it because I saw There was a tweet from an LA Times editor, reporter, Fidel Martinez, maybe. Yeah. I know Fidel. You know Fidel.

He said he said he can't, he was, I forget who he was talking to, but some, addressing some Mexican-American players say don't join the U.S. and get ruined like Dick Pappy. Called him Dick Pappy. And now, you know, Pepe is,

of goals and I you know I guess for me that's like a that's a big L for Fidel you know like he didn't get ruined my name his name is still his name is still Ricardo it's not he doesn't just because he plays for the US doesn't mean we have to call him dick yeah for sure I mean I think like you know I've written about this and I'm sure like I said I'll continue to write about this I mean I think fans are fans, right? You know, we're going to see those, those, we're going to see funny or not in funny tweets. We're going to see some people go too far.

We're going to see some people, you know, be respectful and wish players the best. And it's tough. I think, like, that'll continue. You know, it'll continue, but there's going to be, especially as the number of players in this category increase, there's going to be more and more battles. And some of them, like, look, like, Jonathan Gonzalez, right?

Was it worth it for anyone? For us to care? I thought it was going to be, right? I watched him when Monterre. I said, this guy's an absolute player. I went on Fox de Porte's in Spanish and said, like, Dave Serra Chan, because he was the coach at the time, and the U.S., like they lost this one, it's a huge L.

And then it, like, turned out that it didn't matter for the U.S. And it didn't matter for Mexico, right? They had this player. They tried him out. They're like, no, this guy's not going to make it. I think there's going to be so many more players like that. The ones that will hurt will be guys like Pepe, guys who make it, you know,

Oshawa, I think, is a goalkeeper, maybe, didn't have a great MLS season, who knows in the future. Like, I think, you know, it'll hurt, but I think there's also going to be, just like in the rivalry, there's wins that you can point at and great moments on both sides. I think, you know, in these off-field issues and situations, there's going to be wins and losses there as well.

And sometimes the difference is that in a game, you say, those acero suckers, or, oh, we beat you out of Azteca again. And in this off-field thing, don't really have the result until five or ten years later where you're like, man, it would have been great if we had that. Man, it would have been great if we had a route. You know, whatever the case is.

But it's going to, it's not going away. I was with you on Gonzalez. I thought he was, at 18, he was boss in the middle of the pitch for the best team in Mexico. I don't know what happened to him, honestly. What did happen? Like, why? Yeah, he kind of lost his place to Charlie. brother Rodriguez who's on the Mexico national team now.

And then I think like went on loan and didn't really get the best, I don't know if coaching or what, but certainly didn't like do much on loan. And now, you know, those formative years, I think there's a lot of players who fall into that category, regardless of background where they look great at 18, 19,

and something happens, whether it's them, whether it's coaches, whether it's bad advice, bad club situations. Like you just, they hit 23 and you're like, I don't know what happened there.

I think he's definitely in that category where he just looked so promising and he hope that he bounces back I think there are players in that category as well where they end up having great careers from 25 to 29 because they put in the effort and are in the right club situation so

yeah but I would say he just got like replaced and then you know a team like this is there are so many background things there's so much drama we can talk about boozy brunch etc but like the real sort of like cold names nature of soccer is like if the manager thinks you give them the best chance to win,

you're going to play. And if they doesn't, you're not. And if you play, you're going to get better because you're having that competition. If you train against the best players, you're getting it better. If you know the nutrition and weightlifting things that you need to do, you're going to get better. And like some of those guys fall between the cracks or the manager doesn't like them. And that's such a huge. I know you talk about this all the time with like you ask prospects that you track in in Europe and in an MLS academy is like, but that development it can't stop once a player looks awesome at 18 because very rarely, very, very rarely

the finished product. Yeah, I think you look at what happened with Pepey where he didn't score, you know, he didn't score a goal for club or country for almost a year. And yet he continued to get chances from Burrhalter. So I really give Burrhalter credit for this for sticking by him and giving him chances. And he played well for the national team,

even when he was barely playing at all for Augsburg. He didn't score, but he played well. And you look at, I don't know, in contrast, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no parallel on the, on the on the, on the, on the three side, you know, there's a, no, it's just one example that's not a, it's not a academic study, but I don't know. And that stuff that, that, that, that tweet from Fidel really, really got under my skin because it's like, hey, you don't get to like, you don't get to like, you don't get to like question this guy's identity, you know. Yeah, I think, I think, I think, based on, based on, based on his choice of national team. people do do that in the U.S. There's U.S. fans who do that, but not top journalists at major publications doing that, you know? So it's not appropriate.

I don't know. I was a friend, but he's a, he's a S poster sometimes. I don't think he'll mind me saying that. But no, I mean, I think it's true. And I think that, like, again, like these identity issues are complicated. And I hope. I'm not optimistic. Like, maybe that's my.

maybe you can tell on my tone, but I hope as we have more players in this category, that we see fans starting to understand a little better what it feels like to be in that two culture. I don't, you know, I'm not, it's not me, but I did live in Mexico and I interview Mexican-Americans all the time. I'm married to one. I have a son who's one. You know, like these issues are complicated, and I hope people have grace and empathy going forward. Yeah. That's kind of my message. Yeah, for sure.

And it would be, I think probably, you know, you pointing out that Jonathan Gonzalez was something that we all cared about that really, in retrospect, didn't really matter much, is a really good point. And maybe as more of them happened, there will be less hysteria from people like me when it does happen. No, no, no, for sure. I mean, I think, like, we all have, yeah,

it's just going to keep happening. And some guys are going to end up. up being worth worrying about as players. And some guys are not. And that's the hard part is parsing out for the federation too, right? For both federations. Which guys do we really care about convincing? Which guys do we really want to chase?

Which guys are going to make these announcements that almost seem silly in five years because they're not in the picture for either nation, right? So that's the future. And look, like, it's also El Salvador is getting more aggressive. Honduras is getting more aggressive. like there's going to be more South Sado situations where it's like for some reason Chile is now in the picture

like you know like that all that stuff is going to happen because of our country and Canada deals with it too right let me ask you one more thing John before I let you go can you give us I mean we all know the pessimistic case for the US at the World Cup it's they looked terrible in September

I don't think anybody disagrees with that what's the what's the optimistic case for for U.S. fans going into this World Cup. We haven't talked about the U.S. hardly at all. Let's just close with that. Yeah. I mean, I'm doing predictions for a freelance client that asked for predictions. And I was looking at the bracket and I'm like, well, they can get second in this group,

I think. If they get second in the group, maybe they play the Netherlands, right? I have my crosses right, yeah? I think so, yeah. That's not, that's not, I don't think they're going to win the World Cup. in other words. So, I kind of talked myself into the U.S.

making a little run. I think that they... Based on... But in terms of like... Yeah, go ahead. Right, right, right. You have to back it, right? You can't just say like,

oh, they can do it because they can do it. I think that the September games were really, really wrong. I think that if they lean on some of what they showed in the summer, some of what they showed in qualification, you can have games where the defense...

of showings are better. You can have games where the goalkeeper does good things instead of bad things. And I think there's enough attacking talent individually that you might be able to find some goal. Look, like, I saw the September games too. And so are the teams of the U.S. So are the teams that the U.S. is going to play in Qatar, right? Which maybe is a good thing.

That might be good. Right. Well, I mean, that's the thing. I think, like, if you can make. you know, Burrhalter's task and challenge now is to make those games the anomaly, to make it so that his team is playing something that resembles its best soccer, which they did in September. But I think, like, you can find transition moments in attack. You can find better individual defensive performances. You can find better team defensive behavior in some of the other games. I don't know that they put it together all at the same time. I don't know that they've had a game where you look back in your own. like, man, that's how they need to play in guitar. And I think that art is part of the issue where you're just like, which game is the one

where the U.S., like Nations League against Canada, maybe, like, I don't know. You know better than me. I mean, probably I'd look at the Dos Hesero versus Mexico, but as we've been talking about Mexico is not, you know. With a weird backline from Mexico as well, a bit of a, you know, some fluky moments, I would say. But look, like those things happen in important games, and I think that could happen with the World Cup.

Look, you ask me for the optimistic case I've given it to a U.S. quarterfinal. No, no, no. I do think, like, they have the players and the system to potentially get out of the group if they can execute things well. They didn't execute things well in September. We saw them not execute things well in away qualifiers, specifically during qualification. But ultimately, I still, I don't think I'm as down on the U.S. as, like, the typical U.S. fan.

I'm not as down on Burrhalter, even though, again, like, I think he has his limitations. course. I think the U.S. can get out of the group. And then again, like when I saw that cross, I was like, oh, this isn't, I guess because I've been looking and seeing like Mexico probably plays France, oh, that's an L, you know, or some of the other concat teams if they advance, you know, it's like, oh, Brazil, oh, no, you know, like, so there is a, there is a little, little chance that something crazy happened. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I feel like it, how I feel about us versus Netherlands will depend on how we look in those. other three games, but

you got to get there. You definitely got to get there. It's also, I mean, look, like, we all also can say, like, based on what they showed in September, they're not good enough to get out of the group. But I think if you take a more complete look at what they did in the Gold Cup, in the Nations League final,

in qualification over the long haul, especially at home. How do you take that home form and put it in somewhere else? I think it will be a challenge. But I think you can say there are enough good things to rescue, quote unquote, from these games, that you could say,

say this is who the U.S. really is. If they can put that on the field in Qatar, they could potentially advance. And once you get that round of 16, like, unless you're Mexico, anyone can win. All right. Hey, John, thanks again. Check out John's newsletter, getting concapped.

Again, I'll put the link in the show notes. I encourage you to sign up for that. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you.