Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #332: Wales' strengths, weaknesses, politics and "Yma o Hyd" with Ryan March

Episode Date: November 3, 2022

The founder of Alternative Wales, Ryan March, talks about the Welsh 3-4-3, the need for a healthy Joe Allen, says he's unconcerned with Gareth Bale's lack of competitive minutes, and explains the song that Welsh fans will be singing in Qatar.To see March's writing, visit Alternative Wales, and to listen to his podcast, which I recommend, go here.----Scuffed is an ad-free, listener-supported podcast. You can support us by joining the Patreon, here: Scuffed on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffed Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff podcast, where we talk about U.S. soccer. Our guest today is Ryan March, the founder of Alternative Wales, and I'll quote from the website, The Voice of the Counterculture Community that has grown around Welsh football, end quote. He publishes magazines and hosts a podcast that closely follows Welsh football and the Welsh national team, of course. Ryan, thank you for joining us. Thank you very much for having me. Pleasure to be here. Yeah, I'm excited about it. First up, first thing I want to ask you about is, is a song.

And can you pronounce it for me? It's the one that was sung by the folk singer. Yeah. Yeah. It's Emma O'Heed. Emma O'Heed. Okay. Amma O'Heed, yeah.

It means we're still here. Right. Despite everyone and everything. Correct. That is the chorus lyric. Yes. Now let me just play a clip of it because it's like, I think that at least for me as an outsider,

the videos of the stadium singing it together with the guy who wrote the song back in the 80s are pretty moving. So let me just play. You can see the guy in the video, the guy who wrote the song, tears streaming down his cheeks as he's leading the stadium singing this.

This was, I think, before the Austria game in March, but it was also sung before the Ukraine game, the playoff. Yes, both games. Yeah, just give us the background on the song. What does it mean? How long have people been singing it at soccer games? So it's sort of written in the 80s by a guy called Davith Iwan

as a sort of response to Margaret Thatcher's quite tough government at the time who were sort of imposing a lot of issues onto Welsh people there was the minor strike in Wales is obviously the heart of mining at the time

so you know Welsh people had always suffered politically and sort of economically due to the UK government for a long time and this song sort of charts that from, you know, I think there's literally mentions, you know, of like

ancient kings and stuff and princes in the song and it's just a sort of a, basically, I mean, the chorus sums it up is saying, despite everything and everyone, we're still here. Obviously there's the Welsh language as well, which plays a big part in

Welsh culture. And obviously, it's in Welsh the song is and it is quite incredible really considering how Wales has always sort of just been to the side of England there are countries in the world where languages have died because of invasions

colonialism etc that the Welsh language still exists and is a growing language at the moment there is an argument that people say it's dead and it's pointless to be spoken but it is still spoken regularly by a lot of people, not completely across the country.

There's pockets here and there. But you will find someone in pretty much every town in Wales that can speak it. But it's growing. And the song is sort of a bit of a statement saying, you know, doesn't matter what you can chuck at us and what you've thrown at us from now until, you know, forever throughout history. It doesn't matter because we're still here and we're still going to be Welsh

and we're still going to do what we do. And I think it does, I think that really sort of rings true with the football team as well because I think the football team has been through that. And it has always been almost the second sport in Wales within the eyes of the establishment. And I think, yeah, the song is just a bit of a middle finger, so to say, to the British establishment.

and everyone else, really, that sort of has anything bad to say about Wales. Certainly not I. Nothing bad to say about Wales here. Thank you very much. But, you know, I mean, I get the sense that it's only become standard to sing it at national team games recently, right?

Yes. Like, yeah, so the song has always sort of been associated with Welsh football. I say associated. It was always played at games, sort of, you know, over the Tannoy before matches. No one really took notice of it. I think there was obviously, again,

if you're from a Welsh-speaking background, you would be more aware of the song. I think that it has more of a, you know, it's part of more people's culture if you're in that Welsh-speaking world. But I think, so that politically the UK is all over the place at the moment, and I think there's a real strong movement

around like Welsh identity, which sort of manifests itself into an independence movement. and football has sort of been the face of that almost because I mean the whole alternative Wales thing that I started was because it was like an alternative to what the typical person sees Wales and there may be people listening to your podcast now and there may be you know there's people out there that would say

what is Wales is like this you know part of England that they love rugby their sheep Tom Jones all these sort of like very stereotypical views of Wales and I think it doesn't truly represent the people of Wales and I think football has become that face and become that identity and I think the song just encapsulates

exactly what that is all about and the players have started playing it. It was the players that sort of brought this on and I think we'll go into sort of the connection between players and fans later on and they would play it in the dressing room pre-match and I think they just asked the FAAW, the footballer

of Wales, can we have David sing before the game? And he did in the Austria game, and it was absolutely amazing. You know, 30,000 people in that ground, all singing along, you know, and I can tell you for sure that, you know, a lot of them weren't Welsh speakers. So to be singing a song in our native language that is so, you know, is to some people a dying language, before one of the biggest football matches in Wales' history, it just resonated and I think that's why David you can see him crying. I was

welling up and I'm sure I wasn't the only person because it just meant so much more than football it was about national identity and finally being ourselves and I think that's what football allows us to do is because pretty much everything else

in the world. Wales is a part of Great Britain or the United Kingdom whereas in sport and especially football because football is such a global game. Wales can be itself. Wales is Wales. It's not Wales part of Great Britain. It's not Wales part of the United Kingdom. It's Wales, an independent football nation. And that's why I think growing up going to the World Cup is such a game changer, not just for Welsh football,

but Welsh society and Wales in general. Okay. And you sort of touched on this, but Welsh nationalism is on the rise, right? I think I saw something about like 40% of folks in Wales are now interested in separating from... So, yes, nationalism is a bit of a dirty word and I think it has negative connotations and I'm sure you guys in the States

know all about that. So it's hard to sort of... But it is nationalism, a sense. It's about being Welsh and being proud of being Welsh, but also being like Welsh and open and sort of like, we don't want to... It's not Wales for the Welsh.

It's not, you know, it's not this sort of like insular thing. Wales wanted to be part of a global world as Wales. And I think since Brexit happened, and I think obviously the UK government just being an absolute shit show, there's a movement in Scotland that has already, there's been going on a little bit longer

than Wales in terms of it being such a conversation. So I think that's, and it just feels like the only viable option for Welsh people. Like, for example, in Wales, we've voted, Labour for the last I think 100, 120 years in every election we voted Labor and I think in that time we've only had a Labour government

for like 30 years. Because Wales is so small and it holds and the way the government is elected in the UK because we have such a small amount of seats in the House. It doesn't, it means that we don't, we aren't really represented

how we vote wouldn't, you know, however England votes, that's the government and we're just sort of, we just make up the numbers. So I think there's a real sense that we don't make our own decisions and we never have and it's yeah it's about you know let's let's be ourselves let's be a confident nation and the football team embodies that and allows and allows us to to be an independent nation in the world

and I think that's why football at the moment is so important in Wales Are people going to sing Emil O'Heed at the in Qatar Are you going to sing it? Yes. Yeah, yes. It will be sung on not, you know, in the stands, without doubt, you know, and probably in the streets. And, you know, it's one of our go-to.

It's like the unofficial national anthem now. They'll be able to coordinate and sing without, without the PA system pumping it out. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. At least a chorus anyway. Yeah. You know, you will hear it in the grounds without doubt.

Cool. It's a cool thing. I wish we had anything like that in the U.S. I mean, you know, speaking of a national identity, we have a, hard time, I think, as a country, even figuring out what we are at this point, which... Look, it's very different because essentially, essentially you are a continent with loads of minor little states within it, and, you know, with three million people, it's a bit easier, I think it's a bit easier to have a bit more of a, you know, and it's very different from like, you

know, mile to mile people are very different, but I think, you know, it's easier to have an identity, I think, when you are such a small nation, and I think that's what makes us so unique in this. And I think that's why, you know, we've been able to do that as fans because it's, we're so compact and together in that sense. We'll get to the US-Wales game because that's the, you know, that's what I think most people who are listening to this really want to hear about. But before we'd get to that, Stephen Ann Arbor, Michigan, home of University of Michigan,

asks, if Wales beat England, will the pubs ever close? It'll be a hell of a night if we do. And with it being the third game in the group, there could well be something on it. There could be a scenario where we have to beat England to go through and they get knocked out. I mean, if that happens, I'd probably just retire from watching football

because it wouldn't get any better than that. I've never seen us beat England. I think the last time we beat them was 1984. You know, we came really close, at least to get in a draw in the European Championship. in 2016. We had the last laugh anyway.

But yeah, I think to just have that would just be, it would be, it's like the final frontier for me now. I'm going to see Wales in a World Cup. I've seen us in European championships. I've seen us beat teams like Italy and Belgium and Germany, but I've never

seen us beat, you know, the old rival. And I think it would just be, it would be huge. And I think it also goes back to what we were talking about just then. I think, For Welsh people, football is always, we've always been fed football through the media from an English perspective, because we have very few independent media outlets. Another reason why we set up alternative Wales. So when you listen to the radio, when you watch television, it's always from an English perspective.

It's always English pundits or English presenters talking about England. They're the worst. And Wales are. Yeah. They are. And I think there's this, and I think now that we're a pretty good side and we can compete with them, I think it's getting even worse now. So it's like we've always had England, England, England, and to actually overturn them on the biggest stage in football and even knock them out of the World Cup is just too much to comprehend for my little mind at the moment. But who knows?

All right. So, you know, somebody out, Jack T. in Cincinnati, a faithful listener asked what the England is. game will mean to whales. I think you've kind of already answered that one. Yeah. So you mentioned in one of your, one more sort of politics question, I promise, not much more than this, but you mentioned one of your podcast episodes recently that the police were acting strangely around the playoff against Ukraine.

Can you explain what they were doing and what you think it maybe meant? So football in. in the UK as always had a bad reputation, well football fans in the UK have had a bad reputation

for obvious reasons going back to the 80s and the 90s, you know, football violence was, you know, it was part of the culture of watching football,

it happened, but it's gone now. You know, you get the odd, you know, pocket that might happen you're in there, but it's not in the norms.

But I think that reputation has been hard to shake for the football fan. And I think it was too, 2017 as the independence movement was gaining steam and it was so Welsh independence movement. Yeah, it was gaining steam. And it was very much part of the fan culture. It really did become.

So a group called Welsh football fans for independence started setting up sort of like marches to the ground. It would essentially just be a chance for everyone to meet up in the pregame, have a few beers, sing a few songs and sort of walk to the ground. under the banner of independent sort of just trying to raise awareness start conversation it was very unconfrontational there was never any issues it was always

always went off without a hitch there was never any counter-protests this is the key I think there is elements of the independence movement like any political movement you're always going to have a pocket of people who are sort of the bad eggs that cause issues

and may not have the right idea and I think that goes back to the whole point of what is nationalism. There is that element of the independence movement, albeit small, like any political movement, you're always going to have a few, you know, bad eggs. 10% yeah. Yeah. And yeah, so it's never been confrontational. The whole movement, it's all been about positivity.

It's all being about, let's be Wales rather than, you know, like anti-English. It's all, it's been like pro-whales rather than anti-English or anyone else. So it was very much positive. And these have been happening for years. Like I said, it started in 2017. You know, five years later, it's been carrying on. And I think in the Ukraine game ever met up, and there was a large police presence. A lot of surveillance of the fans and people were a bit annoyed.

And it was like, we've done nothing wrong. We're just here to have a good time. Leave us alone. You know, we've been doing this for five years without an issue. but I think the issue is stemmed from within these marches pyrotechnics have been quite popular smoke bombs, flares, those sort of things

quite European football the sort of stuff you'd associate with like ultra-culture in Europe obviously illegal in British football grounds and I think probably in a lot of countries now and the FAW face large fines if they are let off in the ground

So I think it was a I don't think it was necessarily because of the independent stuff because like I said it's gone on but because there was this pyrotechnics and they're really trying to clamp down on it at the moment there is a big movement against it from the powers that be

they were sort of pulling people out who were using it and taking their tickets off them from the game. I think there must be some sort of law some sort of in the small print where you can't let it off that sort of thing within a certain radius of a ground so I think that was the element But then stuff like that, sort of, it becomes confrontational then. When it's supposed to be positive, but when the police are there and it's sort of overzealous policing,

I think people, you know, it almost starts problems then. And thankfully, you know, there was very few problems. The fans didn't respond like the police maybe wanted them to, to sort of start a bit of a scene. But yeah, it's just a shame because it was always such a positive thing that now it's sort of been a bit tainted. So I wouldn't read too much into it I think it's just the sort of the reputation

football fans come with and you know how it's still seen by the establishment You know, in Cardiff, for example, on a match day On a football match day A lot of bars won't let you in after the game If you're wearing a football shirt Because they think you might cause trouble But then on like a rugby day, that's fine

So I don't understand it I just think there's this reputation that football fans can't shake no matter how well our fans have been the publicity our fans have gained in the last 10, 15 years, it doesn't seem to really shake that reputation of. Well, some people who set off smoke bombs

ended up missing that game, like they didn't get to go to the game, right? I mean, that's pretty good. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a shame. But, you know, I guess if they're the laws, you've got to abide by them, but I think there's a way to do it,

and I think there's a way to go about things, and I don't think it was the way it went down. Okay. Okay. How will Wales approach the game against the USA? First game, first match of the World Cup for both teams. Yeah, what will be the plan? What will be the plan from a Wales perspective?

I think it's a must win for Wales and the USA. I think it'll really set the tone for the group. I think both us, but both sides will probably think it's maybe the most winnable game in the group. So I think Wales have got to go for it. We saw what a good start could do in Euro 2016 and the sort of the momentum you can start there. I think both Wales and the US are probably underestimating how good Iran are.

I think we've got the positive that we don't play England until the third game. So we can do all the groundwork before then if we're going to get out the group. I don't think it'll be very different to how we played again. against Austria in terms of personnel and

style and system. It was very, it was a, we play like a, like a five, no, three, four three, let's say. I think it sort of manifests itself as. And I don't, and I think the only change you'll, what will be the telling difference is

who he plays in the midfield to, the central midfield. If he plays Joe Allen, who should play if he's fit, we'll probably get on to him later. Joe Allen will play regardless, and it's who he lines up with Joe Allen, is sort of how we'll set out.

If he puts Aaron Ramsey there and deeper, I think it's going to be, we're going to try and be on the front foot because we're sacrificing him from an attacker position to afford another attacker in. What he might do is play someone like Ethan Amperdu or Joe Morel,

who are a more defensive midfielder, which would allow Aaron to be one of, you sort of sacrifice an attacking player then. So I think that will be the telling point. I don't know what he's going to do for that USA game, but I think for us, for me as a fan, it's a must win. And it's quite, you know,

it sounds quite harsh to put it on the first game in the group. But, you know, if we get three points off the bat, then, you know, anything can happen in that group. So we just got to get the points on the board as soon as we can. It's not going to be easy. You know, there's a few American players that, I think the US have better individuals, you know, if you were to compare the 11.

versus the 11 and on the day I think America will come out in terms of individuals but I think what Wales has is they're well coached they've got a system a lot of them have played the system for a long time you know we've got some we're at a point now where we got sort of a few centurions in that team in terms of caps we've got big caps across the side we've got experienced players and we've got young flair exciting players it's like a nice mix of both the old guard who did really well in 2016 and the best of them are still sticking around and this new fresh, exciting crop that are coming through and I think the FAW and the management structure have been able to keep that really good culture

within the camps going and I think that, you know, that is so valuable, especially when it comes to tournaments and you sort of stuck together. You know, you see the stories from every World Cup of teams sort of imploding behind the scenes. You know, I think France are guilty of it

in the past. And I don't, that won't happen for Wales. So it's all about the collective, whereas I think the USA is a bit more about the individual. And those individuals can hurt us, by all means.

But hopefully the collective and the, the organisation that we have will get us over the line. But I don't know enough about the US as a team. I know a lot of their players, but I just don't know

how it's going to go. Oh, it's a real lottery, this group. Yeah, I would say, no, even people who follow the U.S. closely like me don't really know what we're, what kind of team we're going to see in this, you know, in this game. It's, could we, we might see this team we saw in September and then Wales wins in a walk. And we might see the team that performed better in the past. I don't know. So that 3-4-3 that you're talking about, or sort of a 34-3 would be what, Bail, Daniel James, and, and, definitely bail

right who else well bail will play regardless about his club form whether he's playing much that hasn't bothered him in the past he'll play

so I think there's the goalkeeper issue again don't really mind which one of them plays neither of them have ever really let Wales down the back three Joe Rodon who plays at Wren at the moment on loan from Spurs he'll be in the middle of it either side of him

one of them will definitely be Ben Davis obviously playing week in week out at Spurs great player, probably the most underrated player on our team even though he is the one who plays Champions League football regularly I think people still don't see how important he is and then the other side of him this is where it'll be interesting because it'll either be Ethan Amperdu

or Chris Meppam. Chris Meppam playing for Bournemouth playing well in the Premier League. Ethan Amperdoo I think he's at Spatia in Italy I want to say at the moment obviously a Chelsea player but you know what Chelsea are like they just love to loan everyone out So it'll either be Amperdu in midfield with Joe Allen and Mepham at the back

or Amper do at the back and no Chris Mepam. Wingbacks look after themselves. You've got Nico Williams on the left who's currently playing for Nottinger Forest previously played for Liverpool. Great, probably one of our most exciting young players think this could be a really big tournament for him

especially now he's playing regular football because he hasn't for a few seasons and on the other side, Connor Roberts who's playing for Burnley, great player, unbelievable amounts of energy and quality. And then you've got your midfield too. Like I said,

if Amput's playing, it'll be Alan and Ramsey and then a front three of Bail on... Wait, so if Amputs playing... This is where it gets interesting. Well, if Amputt is playing at right centerback,

that has a knock on effect for how you set up the midfield? Yes, I would say. So if Amperdu's playing right center back, it'll likely mean that Aaron Ramsey will play in the two in midfield. Okay.

Which means we're probably going to be playing more attacking because we've only got one sort of sit in midfielder, whereas Aaron Ramsey will sort of play more of a free playmaking role. But if Amperd-Doo can go in midfield and be like a defensive midfielder with Joe Allen, then we got two sitting with Chris Mepin playing at the back. The front three is where it gets interesting.

So this is where the big debate is at the moment. We've sort of got four players to go into three positions at this point. And again, it depends on how they're going to go about, what sort of style they're going to go with. Kiefer Moore is the issue. Obviously, he scored two goals for Bournemouth on the weekend. weekend, six foot five, whatever he is, big old bloke, great player, you know, sort of like a really nice modern centre forward, sort of like a budget, Lowndafsky, I'd say, you know, good in the air,

good with his feet, you know, deceptively quick. And he's playing Premier League football for the first time in his career. You know, he's 30, he was a bit of a late bloomer, came through non-league, and sort of he's finally, you know, doing it in the Premier League and has been so important for Wales since he came in about three or four years ago. If we start him, it'll likely be Bail and then probably Dan James but then the one person who misses out then is Brennan Johnson who's been a bit of a revelation in the last year or two

had a great season for Nottingham Forest last year you know get promotion from the championship played a lot in the Premier League this year I think he's adapting slowly it hasn't been playing sailing for him but he's a really really talented lad and it would

be harsh on him to miss out so you could see Bail through the middle and then Brennan Johnson and Dan James either side That's how we set up, I think, in the Poland game, I think. Or you could see Kiefer Moore through the middle and then probably Dan James on the left, bail on the right. That's how the front three would look. And then Ramsey would be sort of in behind,

picking the passes, making the plays. Joe Allen sweeping everything up. And then the width comes from the wingbacks. That's sort of how it's been for the last year or so. And I can't imagine it'll be any different. when we do kick off against the US. Harry Wilson's a player a lot of people will know

he's probably not going to start, you don't think? Probably not if everyone is fit. I don't think there's an obvious candidate to drop out there. Really good option

to have off the bench. He would sort of be, for example, if Aaron Ramsey doesn't make it obviously very temperamental with injuries, you never know between now and the World Cup

if he isn't fit. He would be the sort of alternative for him to come in and play that playmaker role at the front of midfield if we are going to play a more attacking game. I think that's sort of where he sits in the pecking order. But it's not bad to have a play like him

or Brennan Johnson coming off the bench, especially with the five subs and the fact we're playing three games in, I think like 10 days, or nine days. I think it works out. The likelihood is, Gareth Bale, if he manages to play 390 minutes in that time, it's going to be a miracle.

Same with Aaron Ramsey, you know, where they're at in their career. years. So I think this World Cup, I think for everyone, the squad is so important and Harry Wilson will play a part, maybe not from the off, but he will 100% play a part in the group stages. Okay. Well, you, let's jump into some bail questions because you seem relatively sanguine about his lack of minutes. You know, his club in MLS, Los Angeles FC is in the final of the MLS Cup playoffs. He hasn't played a part in the playoffs yet. And that doesn't bother you. that doesn't concern you at all?

Not at all, no. I mean, look, he barely played for Real Madrid for the last three years. He was at Madrid. He barely played. I think his love for the club game, especially, well, his love for football and especially the club game has waned massively

since the sort of the fallout post would have been the Champions League final in 2018. Was it when he scored the bicycle kick? I think it was 2018. About against Liverpool. he should have left that summer I think you know Zadan didn't fancy him

although Zadan left came back again it was never and I think his relationship with the media and the fans I think it killed his love for the game and what's kept him going

is Wales and I think that's what's kept him going and for him this is going to be the pinnacle his career now you know he may have won Champions League and he may have won

Le Liga's and plenty of personal honours the World Cup I think was always his final was going to be his final say and I just think for the last three or four years he's just been managing his body through through club football

and sort of using them as just a way to train and sort of keep fairly sharp have a few minutes here and there and he's still done it for Wales you know he's not the player he once was he's not the threat he once was I don't think people are as frightened of him like they used to be

but you've only got to look at our playoff campaign to see how important he is for the team and what he can do he's a very different player now he's a deadball specialist more than anything but he can you know when him and Aaron Ramsey you know they've been playing together for I think they first played together in like 2008

they've been playing together for that long and they've just got this beautiful understanding and when they're both on song and they're both doing it there's no better players to watch in world football and yeah I just well I just think he chose LAFC because it was a it was sort of take him out of that spotlight that Rail Madrid had

there was an option to come to Cardiff, which is my team. Would have been brilliant, obviously, to see Gareth Bill play for his hometown team, my team, brilliant. But he made the right decision because obviously there would have just been eyes on him and it would have been talk.

If he was doing what he's doing with LAAFC, I think it would be a little bit more sour, especially how bad Cardiff are at the moment. I think he went under the agreement that he could pick and choose when he wants to do these things. I just think he's managing his body through to the World Cup

because we all know how how we can pick up these sort of horrible like niggly knocks that can keep him out for three or four weeks and he just can't afford to do that at the moment because he doesn't recover like he used to and I think he wants to be knowing that maybe not match fit but 100% fit going into the tournament

because this is his final this is his last dance to use an American sporting term where he is going to sort of finish off I guess I can't see him playing for anyone beyond this, you'll probably see how he may have an 18-month contract with L-AFC but whether we'll see much of him

after the World Cup, I don't know, but yeah, it's all about the World Cup for him. It always has been. It doesn't seem like that we're going to see much more of him with L-AFC. And I don't know that there's that much sourness about it in Los Angeles

because, A, because people don't pay that much attention and B, L-AFC's in the final. Maybe he'll come on and score a bicycle kick against the Philadelphia Union this weekend. Because that's what he does. He's a moment's player these days. He may be anonymous for the whole game. And you may think, why are we bothering him on the pitch?

And then he can just pluck something like a bicycle kick or a free kick from 35 yards out of the air and just win the game because that's what he does and he always has done. Besides bail, I assume you think you're going to need a couple moments from him at the World Cup, who really needs to play well for you guys to get out of the group

Joe Rodin is a massive player for us massive he's sort of in the middle of the back three great defender really good modern day defender he can play nice football with a ball at his feet but when he needs to he can throw himself into a challenge

and boot it as far as he can and head everything away and I think he dictates how well that defence do between him Ben Davis and whoever the third man is whether his MEP them or Amperdu. I think, you know, as I think the old adage goes,

goals win you games and defences win you titles. And I think, you know, we've got to be as solid as we can be throughout the group stages because, you know, especially against the side like England or even the US, with the amount of attack and talent those sides have got, they're going to be pivotal in how we do. Aaron Ramsey, again, when Aaron Ramsey plays well, whales do well.

It's just the way it's always been. When he grabs a game by the scruff of the neck and he just dictates everything, he is unplayable. And like I said earlier, when him and Bail are sort of linking up and they're working together and they're on the same wavelength, it's just, it's magic. Kiefer Moore is another person who's a difference maker. He can score goals with his head.

He can score goals with his feet. And he's a target from set plays. And I think it's almost become a bit of an ugly thing to be a team that wins with set plays and set pieces because people want to sort of see those, you know, 50 pass moves finished off with a lovely finish, you know. But he can score the ugly goals. He can score the important goals.

And I think you can't underestimate that. And we haven't had a player like that for a long, long time. Even at our, like, Euro 2016 pinnacle, we haven't had a player who can do those, score those goals like he can. So I think he's really important. Joe Allen as well, he, again, brings so much. we haven't got another player like him.

He's the one I'm worried about missing most because obviously there is talk that he won't play for Swansea before the World Cup so I don't know how fit he's going to be but he's the one where he should be there. Russell Martin, the Swansea manager, has said it's all about getting him there to the World Cup. Now they've got to take their Swansea hat off

and put the Joe Hallen hat on and sort of do what's best for the player. So he'll be there barring a setback which no news is good news at this point. he is the hardest player to replace in the team, I think. From what he offers, Garth Bail, for example, as great as he is, if he does drop out, we've got someone like Brennan Johnson, we've got someone like Harry Wilson,

albeit not quite on the level of Gareth Bale, they are an able deputy, whereas Joe Allen, we're looking at League One players who are going to be coming in for him. And as good as Joe Morel has been for Wales, he just doesn't have that quality that Joe Allen does and can't sort of grab a game and control. And that's like the central midfielder, the box-to-box, sort of number eight.

Yeah, more of number six, I'd say these days sort of sat at the back of the defense, just sort of taking the ball, moving the ball, picking up the ball, you know, ball-winning midfielder, and then Aaron Ramsey does the more box-to-box sort of playmaker role. Back to the Wales USA game. Is in that 3-4-3, you said you expect Wales to go for it? Like, what would that look like? Is that going to be, you know, pushing forward? and trying to pin the US down?

What's it going to look like? Maybe not. I don't know. I don't think we have a very specific style of play in terms of we're not a counter-attack and team and we're also not like a hugely front-foot team. Dan James will lead the press. He's got all the energy.

He's got all the pace. And there's a few calls for him not to start in the World Cup because his club form hasn't been incredible. but as well he plays such an important role tactically and I think when you know teams especially teams who like to play out from the back he is massive

in terms of pressing them in and keeping them in I think it's very much you know if Kiefer Moore starts for example it's going to be a lot of crosses from the wing backs you know getting the balls out to them and sort of almost using the pace

of those two and bail and Dan James yeah I think there'll be moments of pressure it won't be like a constant barrage it'll be Wales will be very sensible about it and pick their moments to to sort of push at the US and when they're most vulnerable but yeah you can't discount how good

the US are going forward so we can't be all guns blazing because we need to be able to make sure that we're still solid at the back as well So it would be a nice balanced game, I imagine, from Wales. The U.S. has struggled in a couple high profile instances against a high press, like against Japan in September and against Mexico back in 2019. But for the most part, the problems the U.S. has attacking have come against teams that sit back.

They just have not been able to figure out how to unlock a set defense. So I think a lot of U.S. fans would say, well, if, Wales isn't going to sit back, that's probably good for us. I think that's been our problem as well, is when teams do sit back and are a bit more solid and organized, we do struggle. We benefit from games that become open because we got that pace of the forward players.

So, you know, Rob Page and the coaching staff will have watched, you know, hundreds of US games by now, or tens at least, and I'm sure the US coach staff have watched plenty of Wales. And I think, you know, they'll be coming up with a way to play against them that allows us to attack, but also be very solid defensively, so we're hard to break down. So I think it's one of those games

where it's going to be won by a moment of magic or something. You know, you've got players who can do that, you know, Pulitzer is capable of that. Gareth Bale is capable of that. Many of our players are capable of that on both sides. So I think it could just come down to one of them, rather than it be, I can't imagine being like a three-two sort of goal fest.

And I think the whole group is going to be, it's going to be very binary. I think it'd be a few one-nills and nil-nil-nills. going on throughout the whole group. So, yeah, we may have to rely on a moment of magic and I'm fine with that as long as we get the win. Alec in Connecticut asks, wants you to talk about the threat that Ben Cabango brings on set pieces.

It's a player you haven't mentioned yet, so I'm not sure he's even going to see the field. He won't start if everyone's fits. He'll likely be going. He's playing very well for Swansea at the moment in the championship. He's had a few issues, I think, maybe attitude problems. I'm not sure if Page has been a massive fan of him as a character. I think hopefully he's sorting that out now,

and his performances at club level are doing the business, and he's one of the few players at club level who are playing regularly and playing well regularly. So he'll be on the plane, he'll be in the squad. He'll likely play much football, I imagine, unless there's injuries or, you know, fatigue. Again, he's a big lad. He can score goals and has them for Swansea. He scored all sorts of goals for Swansea. He scored with his feet and scored with his head. So he does bring a threat,

but I can't imagine he's going to get a lot of game time in this World Cup. He's young and he's one of them, I think, will benefit from the experience. And then he'll be a big player for us in the future without doubt. Maybe another one in that category is Ali Cooper. You guys were talking about him on a recent podcast. He scored what, like four or five goals. was in the last month or something like that. Yeah, I think so. See, he's a really interesting one. He's a really interesting one.

And I think if we were going into any other international window, he'd be in the squad. Robert Page likes consistency throughout his team. He'll pick players that may not play at all just based on the fact that they're all about the attitude behind the scenes and the characters. Ollie Cooper hasn't featured at all in a Wales squad before He's very much a breakout season

And I say breakout season It's almost been a breakout month for him He's timed it amazingly well He did really well on loan at Newport County In League 2 last season And he's very much going to be an important player For us going forward Whether the World Cup may come too soon

Possibly But he may be one of those that benefits From a couple of injuries To someone like Joe Allen in midfield And he may be a bit of a wild card that goes on the plane again unlikely to feature too much but

yeah it's it's a bit of a shame for him that it's come now if he'd be if he'd had the month he's had the month or two he's had going into the September fixtures he probably would have likely had a run in the squad maybe played one of the Nations League games

and Rob Page could go okay we want him to be part of our World Cup squad but there is a bit of a competition for those sort of fringe player places and based on club form Absolutely. But Rob Page likes to have this sort of consistency

throughout his squads. And I just think that may hinder him slightly. But I'd like to see him go because he can't discount someone who's playing well, especially with the nature of this World Cup where it's going to be we literally finish club football next weekend and then sort of what is it like, I think 12 days later the first game is. So, you know, people in form and have momentum playing well. are going to be the

standout players in this World Cup so who knows I don't know at the moment but I'd be happy to see him go and I wouldn't be too too annoyed if he doesn't go that was 2016 when Wales made the run at the Euros

right? Yeah I mean Bail Allen and Ramsey were on that team for sure right who is anybody else in this Ben Davis okay he was there Wayne Hennessy and Danny Ward

both our goalkeepers were there, both played parts of... Chris Gunter played a big role, he'll be at the World Cup where they'll see him play. He was sort of one of them

once he's on like 108 caps he's sort of seen as the team DJ he's Aaron Ramsey's best mate. You know, he's played the most ever games for Wales. Currently playing in league two for Wimbledon he'll be there and I think benefits from the 26 man squad

because he's such a good and important character in the dressing room and I think you can't discount players like that just because they may not be as talented as some others at the moment I think when you're stuck in a hotel together for two or three weeks having someone like Chris Gunther there is massive

so he went to the Euros and he will go to the World Cup maybe we won't see him this time around maybe you'll have a game towards the end of the group if we are rotating and say if we've done the job by then you may see him but yeah he's going to be there almost in like

a player coach role almost I think you know and he's massively important. Johnny Williams is the other one who was at Year of 2016, again, was a bit of a fringe player there and still a bit of a fringe player now. Also in the Chris Gunter role, very popular amongst the squad, very well-liked.

And can offer something maybe a bit more than Chris Gundy can offer off the bench. He's actually scoring goals, albeit in league too. He's one of the only players you've got that is scoring quite regularly at the moment. So again, you can never discount someone like that. And I think because of that extended squad now,

rather it being 26 rather than 23, we can afford to take two players like that who were at Euro 2016 and have been a big part of the team over the last sort of decade or so to come along and sort of be a positive impact on the squad. So I think I'm not

missing anyone else. I think they're the only remaining Euro 2016 players but arguably they were always our biggest players anyway. And Gunter is one of the ones who was instrumental I'm getting M.OHEAD played at the stadium. He's, he's

the DJ in the dressing room. He's always sort of, he's the one who runs all that. So he's, he's very zoned in on, you know, the culture and the, the, the, the link with the fans. He's, who's behind me there, a painting by, it was the third goalkeeper that went to year of 2016, O'I and Fon Williams. He's also a painter in his spare time. And at the end of the England game, when we'd lost 2-1, he came over to the Wales fans and did like a chin-up gesture to sort of say, we've got more to go. And I think it just became like iconic. And that's a painting of it there. So yeah,

and a very iconic player. Not the most gifted footballer, by all means, not the most flashiest of footballers, but he's always never let Wales down. And like I said, he's played the most games ever for Wales. I think he's on 108 at the moment.

Bales on 107, so he'll likely jump over him in this tournament. But yeah, a massive, massive person on and off the pitch for us in Welsh football history. Interesting the tune-up gesture, because the second time I've seen that in a week. The other time I saw,

I thought it was Frank Lampard giving that gesture to Robert Green after he led in that holler against the USA. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. It was a little different situation. I don't think it's quite hopeful. Yeah. Let's see.

Who on, you know, aside from Pulis, who I'm sure you're somewhat familiar with, who on the U.S. roster concerns you. And you can answer that question however you want, but one possibility is answered in terms of talent. Another is how that player will match up against Wales. So, Giorayna is sort of the obvious one, you know, playing really well for Dortmund, very, you know, young, exciting player. He's an obvious one. Is Weston McKenney going to be fit? I read somewhere that he might have picked up an injury. Is he going to go?

Yeah, I think he will be fit. He's, he's, they said he was out for 15 days. That was like three or four days ago. Okay. And he typically comes back from injuries really fast. I know it's kind of a weird thing, but it seems to be the pattern with him. What worries me most is that midfield, because obviously he got Tyler Adams,

who's been a bit of a revelation at Leeds, Western McKenny and also the other guy, is it a Costa? Unis Musa. He's actually British American, yeah. Yeah. So it was Giorina, I think. He might be born in Britain. I think he was, yeah. Born in Scotland, maybe. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, that midfield three, I feel like they're a really nice unit, and I think that's where we're sort of weakest in depth, and especially then if Joe Allen doesn't make it, and we are having to play someone like Joe Morel or Amperdua midfield, then they could be overrun. So, yeah, I think it's those wingers on that midfield are probably the biggest threat at the moment,

especially if we play in wingbacks and they're getting high, if they can get in behind them and test our, I wouldn't fancy going up against Ben Davis but the other side maybe a little bit weaker Amper do as great as he is he may be a little bit he's not quite Ben Davis level although Mepham's having a great

season for Bournemouth at the moment so he may be taking a claim so yeah I think that's where what worries me what doesn't worry me so much is like the defence and the goalkeeper situation that does fill me with a bit more hope going into this game

as it should yeah somebody wanted to meet to ask you, does a centerback pairing of Aaron Long and Walker Zimmerman strike fear into you? I couldn't tell you much about them as players, which probably says to me that, no, it shouldn't strike fear in me. We've played better against better defenses, so fingers crossed. You know, we can test that defense. And hopefully, Zach Stefan is number one, because I've not seen him play well ever. Although I think you mentioned to me on the podcast we did last week that he likely won't be

but I'll cross my fingers on that one yeah it'd be good for you if he was started against Wales yeah he's he's been a mess although I actually think he's been playing to be fair he's been playing better lately I guess he's actually playing regular football now which is massive for a goalkeeper because I mean

he had quite an obvious mistake against Liverpool in the FA Cup semi-final last season didn't he which was a bit of a disaster but these things happen to goalkeepers don't they I think that you shine a light on those things. To some more than others. It's so important. Yeah, exactly.

All right, let me ask this. Dallin in New York City asks, if the World Cup 2022 was a competition of cuisine from each respective country, what are you sending to represent Wales? Does it stand a chance against the American Krispy Cream Cheeseburger? For the record, I do not know what that is. Well, it sounds horrific a Krispy Cream Cheasburger. It sounds dreadful.

I'm very much not one to mix sweet and savoury so that might go out in the group stages in a cuisine world cup for me but what's the it's a tough question what's the quintessential Welsh food you know it's difficult because I think we've been gentrified

I live in Cardiff we've been sort of gentrified to hell in terms of you know it's all just chain restaurants but I think if if you were talking a typical Welsh meal cowl is always mentioned which is the Welsh word for like soup or soup stew. Just like

usually lamb obviously a lot of sheep in Wales. So it's usually lamb meat with veg it's very nice

on a cold winter's evening. I wouldn't be rushing out of the shops to buy it isn't full of flavour.

But lovely enough. Welsh Rearbit is another one. It's sort of like cheese on toast but on

steroids. It's like I think there's like a blend, like a mustady kind of Worcester sauce

blend that goes in to the cheese. and that's beautiful. That is really nice. But I don't think we can compete with the Italian-Irotho the World Cup

so I'll take that back. No, no, no. The Spain's or the Japan's of this world, I don't think we could quite compete on that front there. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Although the Welsh cake would have a good go. The Welsh cake would have a good go. That's a beautiful thing, the Welsh cake. So, what is Welsh? Flats.

So it's like a flat scone, guess with like raisins in and like a nice ice and sugar. And when they're warm and they're soft, they're absolutely, absolutely beautiful. So, um, yeah,

I think they'd be a, they'd be a good, um, they'd do well. I think they'd get out of the group stages, but I don't think they'd get far in the knockout rounds compared to some of the other, um,

the other countries. Yeah. Okay. And I, I wanted to ask you what you think of welcome to Wrexham. And I'll say, I saw the, you know,

I would see previews every now and then I thought, and I'm not going to watch that. And then one of my, an aunt of mine who doesn't even, really care about soccer. She told me she knows I have a podcast. She said, you should watch it. So I trusted her recommendation. I watched the first four

or five episodes. Kind of liked it, actually. I don't know. Have you seen it? What do you think? Yeah, I've seen it all. I've got plenty of friends who are Rexham fans, a guy we do the podcast with, Tommy Kouse, big part of all the intervie is all about. He's a big, big, regsum fan and his face does pop up

once in later episodes. It's brilliant. I'm really pleased and how well they've done with it. Obviously, it was released not long after the Arsenal All or Nothing, which I found incredibly boring. Went in with the expectation that it was clearly aimed at an American audience. I think they almost explained football to an American audience

throughout. So, you know, I understood a lot of the stuff they were already talking about. But I think what they managed to do and what is special about it and what makes Wrexham special, And what most football clubs in Wales and the UK in general are special is the people. That's why I found that Arsenal thing so boring. It was just like, Michael Ateta, terrible team talk, players, not really any characters or very bland sort of, you know, nothing happened.

Whereas very little football. I think maybe that's why your aunt enjoyed it so much, you know, not being a football fan, because it was about the community and they did a really good way. They did really well at explaining Wales. to an American audience that other people haven't been able to do. And I think, yeah,

it's just really massive help in terms of Wales on the World Stage and, you know, mix that with the World Cup is great, and I just think they did a really good job of it. It's such a great story and such a unique story, and I think everyone was quite, you know, in Wrexham and Wales in general

were quite right to have reservations about them coming in, you know, big, big famous owners, you know, foreign owners in the UK are sort of frowned upon a little bit even though everyone has one now because of the sort of the influence they're trying to have on the game

over here, especially American owners in the Premier League, not very popular. And sort of the Americanisation of football in England and the rest of the UK is a worry. You know, we've sort of blazed a trail in how it all works. You know, the Football League pyramid

is a unique, beautiful thing and I think that sort of threat to that is a problem. So I had the reservations about it and the fact that they were going to use it as just this nice big PR exercise. But they won me over straight away. I have a soft spot for Rexham, a Cardiff fan,

but obviously Rexham's in North Wales. And for so long, they sort of haven't been in the football league, and I'd love to see them do well. I had loads of friends there. And I just think they're a really unique club in their position. So I, you know, I am always keeping eye on what they're doing.

You know, they're almost like a second or third team for me. So I had my reservations, but I think they've, They've actually smashed it. They've, they've come in and they've embraced what makes Rexham special. They haven't tried to change anything. They haven't tried to sort of put their own stamp on it. They've just taken what they can find.

And they're just really good at that PR marketing stuff. And I think the documentary shows that. And, yeah, the characters and the people around the football club are what makes these football clubs so special. And they've captured that. And I think they've done a really good job. And, yeah, thoroughly recommend anyone to watch it. And I don't think you very much need to be a football fan to enjoy it because it's not very football heavy. It's more like a story about people in a town.

Yeah. So, Rexham is, I mean, it's, you learn in the documentary pretty quickly that Rexham was a big club in Wales at one point. Is it still pretty well known? Yeah, I mean, like everybody knows about it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so there's obviously, there's five teams that play in the English system in Wales. Cardiff, Swansea, obviously the two most well-known when Swansea, especially who had such a long run

in the Premier League, I think it was seven or eight seasons in the end, also owned by Americans. Cardiff City, again, being up and down a couple of times playing the championship. You have Newport County, who are a smaller club than Wrexham because Newport's only 15 miles from Cardiff, so they suffer from that. And then Murtha, who are, I think they're in the eighth tier,

maybe ninth, I stand to be corrected, sorry, Murtha fans. So there's only five clubs in the whole. There's only five. Huh. No. We have our own domestic league then, called the Cymoury Premier or the Welsh Premier League, which feeds into Europe.

So we have smaller sides. That suffers because most people do watch the English, the teams who play in England, in terms of crowds. But there's hundreds of clubs across the country. But Rexham are the only team in the north, so they benefit massively from, they have a huge catchment area.

If people want to watch professional, professional football, that is where you watch it. And I think they're unique in that because they have that huge catchment area that pretty much spans all of the north of Wales and most of mid Wales as well. And yeah, they're a massive club.

They still get, you know, they get the biggest crowds in the league they're in. You know, they, in terms of where they would sit in like a, if you would sort of order it by how big football clubs are, they'd definitely be sort of like championship. maybe top of league one if you were to sort of do it like that

they are 100% underperforming and I think that's why it was such an interesting project for Ryan and Rob to go in and and sort of try and chase that dream that they've been trying to do for years but bad ownership and lack of funds I think they found

themselves down and out and I think it's a football club that has huge potential and could well you know I wouldn't shock me to see them the Premier League in sort of 10, 15 years with the right guidance, because they've got the fan base for it, 100%. I hope they do. So spoiler alert for anybody who's watching the show right now,

it's they didn't get out of, they didn't get out of the National League. They were close, but they didn't get out, right? Did they, I'm asking you for a spoiler for me. Have they built the, have they built the new cop? The new, not yet. They are, I think they may be in the process of slowly taking the current one down. It's a very slow process.

I don't know. Obviously, they mention it in the documentary. There's sort of the land laws. And to go back to like the 1400s and stuff like that is, they do mention that. Is, you know, I don't think you can just sort of bulldoze it and start building it the following day. So it is in process.

And when that happens, you know, they're going to get probably 16, 17,000 seats a stadium. They will fill that if they carry on on the trajectory they go in. They're having a really good season. Unfortunately, they aren't running away with it because Notts County are sort of taking them game by game at the moment and they are edging them out. But yeah, it'll be another interesting season for them. And if they don't go up this season, it'll be very interesting to see how the owners play it next year because they can't keep throwing money at it, I imagine, if they aren't going to start going up. So keep an eye on that one.

It'll be an interesting season. Not good for the narrative arc either if they don't go up. No, exactly. I think they need it for the documentary and financially, yeah. What's your impression of those two guys? Because the documentary is definitely about Wrexham and the club.

It's also about those, you know, to a certain extent, about those two individuals. What's your impression of them? Yeah, they've massively, massively impressed me as human beings. I think they're very, they're very measured. I mean, Rob especially, is really, really thrown himself into it.

He lives and breathes it. I didn't know much about him before I'd never watched Always Sunny or anything. like that. So he was a bit of a new character to me, so I didn't really have much of a an idea of what he was like. Ryan Reynolds, everyone had always spoken about him well. So again, it wasn't

like sort of a bad guy from Hollywood coming in and buying it. It was sort of too well-liked people. So they come across really well. They don't, there's a fine line between this sort of self deprecation that Welsh people have and then

just downright taking the piss. of Wales, which people don't get right, and they've got it right. They're very good at sort of being on that right line where they can have a laugh about Wales and sort of have a little bit of a, but not at Wales's expense. I think it's sort of laughing along with us, whereas I think other people could have come in and just immediately pissed everyone off because we're quite touchy like that. As going back to the, you know, the Amaro Heade thing, we've had a lot of people do that for a long, long, long time.

so I'm really glad they haven't done they've embraced the Welsh language they've embraced Welsh culture I just think they're really important and yeah massive for the football club and they do mention in the documentary that they can't really become bad guys because they can't go and hide

you know they can't be like this sort of just businessman who can sort of disappear off into the into the night yeah if it goes wrong you know they've still got to build a career so yeah they've got to tread lightly and I think they've done a brilliant job so far.

So what will be interesting to see is if things are going wrong, that's when things will, you know, they'll be tested. The worry, the other worry is from what I gather from Rex and fans is Sean Harvey isn't very well liked. Who's the CEO or the CEO of the guy they brought in, the bald guy. He's got, came with a bad reputation. He was in charge of Leeds for a long time. Leeds fans hated.

He was in charge of the English Football League. Didn't like him. He's a very sort of typical English boardroom football guy. and I think he's making a few questionable decisions. I think maybe important for what Rob and Ryan are doing to have someone who's been there and done it. But yeah, I think he's the sort of person who could turn the fans quite quickly.

I don't think he's well liked within football circles. So he's an interesting character. I can't say too many good things about him. Okay. I thought it was just watching it myself. I thought seeing Rob McElhaney's childhood home kind of was, I felt like that was important in the first episode.

Because Ryan Reynolds is kind of this, you know, fancy guy, you know, he's fancy. Yeah. But McLehany's definitely much more of a, like a regular guy and to see his childhood home and see Philadelphia. You know, Philadelphia is, you know, it's a tough place. And I don't know, I thought that was.

I think that's why they chose Wrexham because, because I had these parallels between, between Philadelphia and Wrexham. I think, and I get that, a very working class post-industrial places that are falling on hard times. So, yeah, really impressive, both of them. And Rob especially, he's been a revelation.

All right, well, let's see. Can you give me a prediction on the game? What do you think is going to happen? I think we talked about this a week ago, but... I don't know. It's so hard to make a prediction, but I've got it back, Wales. You know what?

Let's not. Let's not make a prediction. Two one. Okay. Yeah, like I, two one, Wales maybe, I don't know. I'm saying that to say something. I really don't know how it's going to go. I'm so excited because of that. I just, you know, I'm going in with almost like no expectations.

I'd like us to do well. But I also think there's a very good chance we could go out in the groups because it's such a horrible group in terms of that. I think it's going to be really interesting. You know, there's a chance of thing all of us could have like four points by the end of the group. You know, it's one of them groups that could very much everyone could. beat everyone and especially with how bad England have been recently. I think that really adds an interest in, an interest in dynamic to the group.

Well, I think we can all agree that we want England to not get out of the group, right? Yeah. Yeah, if they don't get out of the group and Wales do and I don't care who comes with us then. I'll be a very, very happy man. Okay, Ryan, thank you very much. I'll put a link to your podcast and website and the website and the show. Show notes. People can find you there. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you.