Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #384: Tom Bogert joins the pod

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

Tommy Scoops joins Belz and Watke to talk about his methods, his origin story, getting yelled at by Tab Ramos when he was 15, whether he ever plans to test himself in Europe, and much more. Great guest, good interview. Full episode already released for patrons. This is the first half of the discussion.----Scuffed is an ad-free podcast. Support that and get exclusive episodes once a week, plus access to the Discord and live call-in shows, by signing up for our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffed Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff podcast where we talk about U.S. Soccer. Our guest today just took a job at the athletic, but he's been a big player in soccer news over the last couple years in America, working as a reporter for MLSS Soccer.com. Some of you know him as Tommy Scoops. It is my pleasure and walkies to welcome Tom Boker to the show. I guess I shouldn't say it's your pleasure, Wachie. It is my pleasure. Okay. But I appreciate you giving me the chance to weigh in on my own.

It is my pleasure. Tom. That would have hurt a lot. You were like, well, actually, I just want to say I didn't consent to that. Yeah, I just like to slightly amend. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, I'm excited to talk to you today, Tom.

Very, very excited. Thank you. Congratulations on the new gig, man. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's been a bit of a whirlwind this week from a guy was in studio for ETR for the first time on Wednesday. I had been to the studios before, but doing the show in the studios was pretty crazy to see

where MLS is. And the sides of that. behemoth, and then Saturday from home doing MLS 360, then the new job Monday, and hey, and here on Wednesday, a lot of debuts this week. So you're going to keep doing that stuff, right, and do the athletic stuff. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, the easiest way to say is that they bought my writing, which is like a weird way to talk about myself and my output.

But so, yeah, I'm only writing for the athletic, but they've given me both ethical and legal blessing to do video and podcast work also. Cool. So you got a lot of leverage, man. Yeah, or I'm just a bad negotiator. So you broke the news about Udnese signing Brenner just like yesterday, right? Yeah, I mean, that's been out. Like I broke the initial that they agreed to terms or whatever, like a couple weeks ago.

So like that was no surprise. It's just Udinezay were working on. on Udine Seatime, since the agreement has been there for a while. They've been close for a while. And I think that since he thought this was going to get wrapped up a lot earlier, and then particularly after all of the news came out from myself and others that at the deal was reached, I think that they thought it wasn't going to take two weeks of him sitting out of training before they scheduled the medical.

But here we are. Right. Well, so that's a big scoop. But what is, in your opinion, is the biggest scoop of your career so far? Yeah, I mean, I want to say out loud for the record that I feel weird talking about it myself because I'm not the story, the story are the stories, and I feel like I have to say that. Well, you're the story today, Tom. The one that to point to is the Gareth Bail to L.A.C. because I've never gotten, I think,

more texts from people in my life, like not like sources, like friends. Yeah. Oh, my God, that was you? What? Like, and I was like, yeah, I've been breaking news for a couple years here. Yeah, but yeah. It's like, so people who weren't paying attention to me or to MLS or even the national team, for that matter. I was getting a lot of sex like, oh, I know who Gareth Bail is. Oh, I saw your name. That's incredible. Yeah.

So there was a time, however many years ago it was now, when you had never gotten a transfer scoop. You were just normal Tom, normal Tommy. How do you go from someone who people don't tell transfer news to to getting someone to tell you for the first time? Why should they tell you something? Do you just start asking random people? Do you have a list?

Is it a plan? Is it just happened and it just snowballs from there? What has kind of been the... How did it start out? I grew a mustache and then people were like, wow, this is a serious guy. I think we need to talk to him, man. No, I mean, yeah, no, that's a good question. And I think of that too in like the agent world, right?

Like, how do you sign your first client? Like, how do you go to somebody and say, trust me with your child's future or, hey, child, trust me with your future, like without any track record. And it's a similar concept for getting into newsbreaking. One, getting somebody to tell you things. And two, people trusting. Like, I get on my soapbox about like having media literacy all the time about like, hey, you can't really believe every single thing that you see on the internet.

And like, I understand that like the first, why a little bit? Like, I had to earn people stress that. Oh, this is a real person that's not like, he doesn't have a track record. Yeah. So it's like, you slowly build it like that. And then, again, I guess I was had a good time with numerous relationships. So it wasn't just like clearly one single person telling me stuff, right? So like that I think that helped it become more organic as well.

So no, it wasn't really a plan. It just started happening and snowballing. And as you said, it gets gets a little easier when you have a track record or pedigree, like name recognition. It seems like a gross thing to say. But like, you know what I mean? No, it's like, oh, this isn't just a random person. Did you kind of know that this is the type of stuff you wanted to,

this was the angle of attack to start covering soccer? No, and honest to God, I didn't want to. I was scared. I started at MLSSogger.com. I was freelancing. I sent over article pitches. They were all politely declined. They're bad ideas.

But, hey, I like your writing. Hey, can we talk? Maybe there's something that we could do together. And I started at MLS, and they started letting me do some non-like basic stuff. Like, I was doing a lot of basic stuff and a lot of grinding, of course. but that was when... Tell us what the basic stuff would be. Like, what would that entail?

Just, you know, reporting, hey, we need 200 words on this basic. Like, hey, it's not like you're writing it. It's just copywriting, basic stuff. Or, hey, there's a, these are these quotes. Can you write 400 words about this? We need...

There's a lot of utility stuff rather than, like, hey, like, oh, that was a great story that you put a lot of thought into there. So, like, at the beginning, man, I was doing, honestly, like, eight or nine articles a day, which is too many articles a day, I'd say. I'm particularly just about MLS. But yeah, so I was doing that.

I've obviously been a soccer guy my whole life. I, you know, like anybody else, I want to think that my opinion matters, that my vision watching a game matters, that I'm going to say the most valuable thing that people are going to care about what I say watching a game. And then I started, like, Stachgold left MLS for the athletic. And I was starting to do a little bit of the things he did

were talking to doing some higher level stuff, talking to sporting directors, head coached, like longer, features in-depth stuff. And my boss at the time was like, I think that you have a knack for this. And look, like, I don't want you to work match nights anymore. I want you to focus on developing these relationships and break news. And I was like, no, I want my opinion to matter on the games. Like, I can see, I can look at tactics and break down what's going on and people are going to care. Because like, in the back of my head, you're only as good as your sources.

And what if your sources don't get good? Then you're nothing, right? So honestly, it was, it was somebody else had this vision for me against my objections. And it's, you know, Simon Borg is the editor's name. I routinely remind him, like, I owe you everything. If it wasn't for you giving me the chance and then pushing me in this direction against my will, I'd be nothing. I'd be extremely average or probably below average. So, so how does he, how does he push you off in that direction? Does he give you Garth Lagerway's cell phone number? And like, like, what, like, what's the, what's the first step there? Or do you, are you getting those, are you getting direct contact with the execs and the agents through the PR teams of the clubs?

Or how does that work? No, so like, and that's the funny part too is like when I, I think the first time that I thought that I had like information and like, you know, obviously did journalism classes, but you know, doing it in real time or whatever. It's like, I remember like talking to editor. I was like, I don't, how do I package this? Like, what do I do with this? And they're like, oh, that's cool.

Like, good luck. Like, let me know when you get more. And I was like, all right, that wasn't exactly helpful. Thank you. But yeah, no, it was more like, like, I think that you have a bit. to create these relationships and doing stories on people reaching out, even some sense of cold calling of, hey, wanted to check in about this, you know, let me know. You get a lot of no no responses. Like I liken it to even starting starting out in this field. Like you sprint through a wall

and nose or when I was 21 or 22, I was happy if an outlet responded to say no thank you on my article. I was like, all right, at least I answered. I can keep trying. Usually you just don't get any answer. So it's, it's, again, it's pretty nebulous. There's not, the problem with this is there's not like a detailed, planned way to go. And it's not like in business school or whatever where you're an accountant and you get an internship when you're junior in college and then, or senior in college, and then you get an entry level position at that place if it goes well. And then in two years, you're supposed to get promoted to this. Like, it's just everybody has their own journey. Yeah. You mentioned cold calling. I think, did you mean, you actually call, how much of your

workers on the phone. I was imagining you're just texting all day. A lot. It's a lot of both. Obviously at the beginning, I'm not just actually cold calling or more of an adequate old term, whatever, rather than being literal. But after you get to, you know, developing sources, like there are there are people who prefer to text. There are people who prefer to call. There are people who prefer to send voice memos. There's people who don't talk a whole lot between important things. So it's like, just like any relationship, whether it's business or personal, like you understand the norms of what that other person want. How do you keep up with all the, I imagine you have just tons of different communication channels

you have to keep going and try to find new ones? Are you having to like sit down for a day every week and just keep track of all of it and plan out how are you going to do the next week or is it just kind of stuff is happening fast and you just figure it out as it goes? The latter, maybe I should do more foresight and more planning as I can because it is, It's really hectic. Like, I don't know, man. It's a lot of reactive or, oh, I got to text about this or, oh, somebody DM me about that.

And then like just, oh, my God, I got to do this right now. It doesn't matter if I'm busy with something else. So, yeah, maybe I should be planning more. Maybe that'd be better for my health and my stress. But, yeah, it's a lot of exhilaration would be the fun way to put it. And as you're building these relationships, are there certain types that are the most useful to you? Or is it a sporting director or some agents?

or is there a whole other realm of stuff you're trying to do? What do you mean? In terms of like who are you, who you want to talk to the most? Is it all sporting directors? This is all agents? I'm just trying to get a sense of where. Who's the most useful? Is it sporting directors or agents or parents or?

This all depends on kind of the relationship and the person. Because again, some people are media friendly and some people aren't. And that's okay. There's just some teams that don't or there's some agents that don't or there's some coach, whatever it is. So again, it's going to sound like a cop-out answer, but truly, I try to talk to everyone because if not, then, because like, look, even an agent and a GM, they could see things very differently on the same subject. But at the, you know, central core of it, if there's okay, an agreement, there is a deal here or whatever, then it's not like, oh, the club dragged their

feet or, oh, this agent's answer for too much money. So it'd be silly to just take one side or whatever, but again, it depends on who it is and how close I am with them to how reactive they're going to be, or if it's going to be them telling me something, or I have to be on them all the time to try to get anything. Okay. So I had a question. From the perspective of an outsider, you breaking the Erranton to Salzburg transfer was a major moment in your ascendancy. I remember thinking, well, there goes Tom Bogart. It's over.

You know, he's won the game. He won't be stopped now. Did it feel like a big moment for you at the time? And did it get easier from there? Or am I kind of misremembering the timeline of things? No, you're correct. I think that was my first, like, I guess, big one. It was definitely the first, like, international big one.

Like, I think I had, like, more details on, like, Carlos Grazo going to Augsburg, you know, a little bit before that. But the Aronson one, that was like, oh, my God, this is a highly rated MLS kid, national team. Going to be going to be in a senior national team soon. going to Europe in this big transfer from Philadelphia. Like that was absolutely the first like, whoa, like this is really gaining traction. I think going even back to some of the first questions that we were talking about, about trust and everything else and how you get started. Thankfully, I had done, it wasn't like a lot, a lot, but I had had enough where it wasn't like,

who the hell is this guy? Like, why would he know anything about this? Like I had at least a little bit of a track record of, I don't know what the number was, but, you know, a dozen or two dozen, whatever it was. lot of smaller stuff. And I think people had come to notice that, all right, he's got information that's correct. And maybe it's not every single thing, but like, oh, by the time that I got that Brennan Aronson to Salisberg, it was, oh, like, this is a real dude that we can trust. Okay. And once you have a story like, I'm not talking in terms of the big picture, but once you

get like a big news story, how nervous do you get that someone is going to get it out before you send it out? Oh, my God. I can't imagine. I, I just. generally run anxious, have anxious tendencies if we want to lay down on the therapy couch here. So that doesn't help with this. I can tell you specifically to bail one. I got the second source on that and it was Saturday and I was about to go to the beach with my girlfriend. She understood that I couldn't really leave my computer at that point. So thank you to her. But it was like 8 a.m. Eastern. I think I got it. And I was like, I can't do anything with this until somebody in Los Angeles just wakes up because they, I have to talk to them as well. I have to let them know I've got this

and I'm going with this because that's, you know, or rightfully, they would probably be like, what the hell is your problem man and like not be open to working me or understanding or just generally hate me if I didn't. And it's 8 a.m. and I was like, dude, I can't even text them right. It's 5 a.m. I got it's a. God, like, I can't. It's a Saturday. It's a Saturday. It's a Saturday. It's a Saturday. It's a Saturday. It's a Saturday. I'm And dude, it was miserable. Anytime I got, if I wasn't looking at my phone, I'd assume that somehow in one second, there was going to be a phone call that went, went to voicemail and just wasn't going to

be able to answer. Just all these irrational thoughts. It's brutal, dude. And I hate that feeling. I'm trying to work better at it. And that like, hey, even if this does happen, it's not the end of the world. But my own devil's advocate to myself is like, well, if I didn't care like this, if I wasn't thorough like this, if I didn't put this pressure on it, then I wouldn't be where I am

right now. So it's like it's good in that way, but it's bad and like you're trapped in your own mind. So most of the nervouses comes from that between the first source and being able to confirm it. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. And then now like it was like this at MLS, but a lot of the time I just got to the point where I was, I would tweet first and then like, hey, do you guys want me to write this? But like obviously at the athletic like this is heavily heavily encouraged to wait until they have a headline up and they're very, very quick. They're super professional. the gold standard and great editorial team. So they are very, very fast,

but I guess in previous iterations at M.S., they weren't quite as fast, which is why I stopped giving it to them before I tweeted out. So that is the absolute worst one. It's like, I did everything I could. I'm just waiting for somebody to hit publish it. What the hell is taking so long? Please publish it.

What happens if somebody else gets it? I know for Ritcho Romano must be on this. He's on everything. Come on. Give me the link. I can't wait any longer. So it's, then you just spiral out of control. What time did somebody get back to you from L.A. that morning?

it was between 730 and 8 I believe and so yeah like and again I was like start the phone call with like I'm so sorry I think that I think we've had enough correspondence that like you know I don't even text you before 9 a.m. let alone ask you to call me on a Saturday morning so they're like yeah you kind of I think I know what you're calling me about like so fair fair play of them. Is it the case that whenever you're putting out a story you're so you're obviously confident about the story but is there any nervousness that goes with it? that something could go wrong and you'll just look like an idiot or whatever? 100%.

I could have, I could see the contract. And in some instances I have, and even sometimes I'm like, well, what if the league denies it because MLS is arcane and esoteric with like, I don't know, like, you know, for instance, we're talking on Thursday at 122 p.m. There were at least two transactions in MLS for a deadline that closed on Monday night at midnight that have not been announced yet. So who knows what the league could do it again? So it is all irrational because I don't go.

was something unless I'm a thousand percent confident, but it's like, oh my God, what if? Like, what if they, or even like the Juilli Narajo to Barcelona was a good one because of just how much of that stuff changed because it was, that was all chaotic. Two hours before the deadline, it was alone with the purchase option. And I put that out because that was what the agreement was in their drawing up paperwork. An hour and a half before the deadline, I get a text. It was like, actually, now they're just going to buy them right now rather than to be alone. And it's like, well, what I put out 40 minutes ago, it wasn't incorrect, but like, now it looks like an idiot. But thankfully that everybody else had the same information. And I don't.

this stuff. But yeah, it's a lot of irrational worry because I have it in my head. If I get one single detail wrong one time, that's it. No more credibility. But dudes are wrong on the internet all the time. I shouldn't worry. But again, that's the internal pressure and the internal stress that I kind of put on myself. That probably isn't healthy, but that's how we are where we're. It must be sweet, though, when you are the first to drop big news. Is it better than revenge? But like you can, it's like any, any coach, nobody believed in us. I could say that in my own mind. Like, it's completely untrue because I have a lot of people who are very nice to me.

But it's like, oh, yeah, like, you see that? Like you see that even like at the athletic for people who, you know, other people in the field who would try to soothe their own egos by saying, oh, he must just, he works for a league site. They're just giving it to him. He's not doing anything. It's like Garber's office. It's like, oh, that's weird. I'm still breaking news at the athletic.

I wonder what happened there. Like, what are you? what are you going to tell yourself to soothe yourself? And like meanwhile, like, nobody is saying that. Like, maybe one person is saying that. But, like, you can create whatever narrative you want in your own. Well, yeah, I was going to ask about that. Because I had the same question, like, how much of your scoopiness was just like the league

office helping you out, you know? None. I mean, it feels like I should have at least prefaced by saying I don't reveal sources, all that, all that. But, like, my counterargument to the very few times that people were trying to, you control me with that, it'd be like, don't you think I would break every single transaction, like literally every single one? Like, why would I just be picking and choosing here? You know, but again, that's just, you can't control what other people say or think.

It's a, it's a, it's a structure that I, that's a little confusing, confusing for me. Like, why would, why wouldn't the league office help out, uh, the writers on MLSsockor.com, you know? Like, you know, the funny part is it's the inverse. Like, I got it. Really? The amount of like club PR people Who have gotten really angry

Like why are you doing this? Like this doesn't serve the league And I'm like And I don't know how to describe I'm like yeah I don't know if you guys are NFL fans NFL.com they have thrown inside No okay what I don't know how to explain it But I'm freelance I like

Okay fine You guys are just gonna yell at me anyway Okay whatever Well I have this news and I'm gonna tweet it out Sorry They really think it doesn't serve the league Yeah yeah Like how would this you know

I don't see why you'd put that It's not helpful to us You know I don't work for you for your club, right? You do understand that. No, they don't understand that is the short answer. Everybody in comms is a control freak. That's my theory on things. And I do want to stress it's not like this at all 29 clubs.

Like there are a lot of good. And again, they'll be like, all right, thank you for telling me. I understand what you're doing, whether they want it to come out or not, whatever it is. Or whatever their level of acceptance is, they don't, they don't treat me like I'm a, I'm a inhuman person. Like, why would you do this? You're very immoral. It's like, all right, I get, I sucks, but I.

get it. Okay. Thank you for telling me. I was about to ask you, what are the three least most difficult clubs, but I realize you can't answer that. Thank you. Let me ask something, going back to something earlier. You mentioned that Simon wanted you to stop being like the match night guy, right?

And this relates, I want to hear more about that because there's a listener question submitted from I spit hop fire in Portland, Oregon. He says, how do you balance staying on the beat with taking in actual soccer games. And it sounds like Simon thought you kind of had to you had to pull back on one to lean into the other, right? Is that my hearing?

I understand that correctly. So, like, I was doing a lot of, like, work on match night where I'd be writing about the games or analyzing, whatever. And, like, so, like, that would be one of my five days of work. And he was like, no, I want you to use whatever day off during the week and just dedicate that to, like, phone calls and stuff. And, you know, as if that would ever happen. Right?

Like in reality day, he'd be like, hey, here's a story that you have to do on that day. Right. And I was like, in one, again, on one end, like, hey, I thought that my analysis is pretty good. Like, I don't, there are always going to be games to watch and I'll always be able to have a thought or opinion or a takeaway. Like, you don't know if you're always going to get the story. So that was the one scare. And two, I was like, I don't love the idea of you calling one of my off days, the day where I have to watch all the games. Because whether I'm analyzing them or not, I can't call sporting director and just have no clue what happened.

Right. So I don't love that. And it was difficult. It is difficult to find a balance. But again, at that time of my career, it was, all right, like, I'm just going to have to grind through all this. And like, it's still a lot of games watching, a lot of stuff to do. But I was able to get more trust from, again, not that he didn't trust me at that

time, but get more trust from editors that, all right, Friday, if there's nothing for me to write, I'm not really working. Like, hey, I'm not going to not do stuff if there's something to do. but you understand I have to be in front of the TV all night Saturday. And so they push and pull and get me taken. And I know that the work life balance at the athletic, like they've, you know, all of those guys have have a lot of positive things to say. And like this week has been hectic for me.

But like that's just because of the time of the year around the transfer window. Like I feel pretty confident that they're not going to be pushing me to be writing 75 hours a week and stuff here. So it's just it is a difficult balance to strike. But like you said, like I can't, I can't just not watch the games because then you lose your credibility when you're talking to. people in the game because it's like you're an idiot are you even watching what we're like how would you know

if we need a left back you're not even watching right do you do you enjoy enough parts of the work enough that they consistently give you energy or do you find you you deal with burnout every now and then there's burnout with everything and I'll start with that side of it because again I don't want anybody it sounds stupid if you're like man like I don't feel like

watching soccer today like this sucks you know but like I got some point, 1030 games when you're sitting in front of your TV from since 5.30, like, watching, oh, cool, like, the parlay kits last weekend. Every game is the same jersey. It's like, I'm going crazy here. Like, um, so yeah, there is burnout or the, I got a phone call at 11 p.m. on Monday night and I was looking at it while I was in bed. I was like, I want to go to sleep, but I can't not take it. So like, those things stink sometimes, but like, well and truly, I'm so, like, it's embarrassingly like single-minded, mostly sports, but obviously soccer

in particular, I love talking about this stuff. I love doing these things. I love being in and now being able to talk to people who are as crazy about this stupid thing as I am. So it's like, I don't know, I find myself even when I'm not working. Like, I'm still talking to people on Twitter or whatever. Like, I don't know. There is burnout and I need to get better at separating and just turning my phone off.

So I don't feel burnout. Like, well and truly, like, I love this. And this is a blessing. I'm extremely lucky. Yeah. What parts of it or what, do you love the newsbreaking point? part the most or do you do you like the studio the video stuff you know going in the studio and all that the news breaking because i i wouldn't be on camera if or i wouldn't be on pocket

i wouldn't be doing a whole lot if like without the information and i know that and like i know that i need to get more polished with tv and podcasting and everything so that's why i'm always eager to take take the reps and stuff but like yeah i understand when my value it and like i understand what the bread and butter is. And that's even with the people ask, like, how will it change the athletic? And it's like, yeah, I mean, there will be a bigger global network. I should be able to, I guess, if I wanted to be super ambitious and maybe start seeing what relationships I can develop with European clubs in particular and then continue expanding network, I'm never going to leave away from MLS. That is always going to be my first

party at all times. Like, I know where my value comes. I know what people want and I know what they've come to expect and I have to keep delivering on. So it's the same thing with the newsbreaking versus TV. I wouldn't be on TV if I didn't have a new, right? So one of my questions was, have you ever schemed out a move to Europe? You know, you go over there like a young, a malice prospect, and you test yourself against Fab, you know? Not necessarily, I was real thing what you do, but you thought, hey, this is how I could do it. You know, you corner the movement, all the Americans over there. You build up more and more club contacts and agents. Eventually, you hit a critical mass and then you go at FAP all the way.

Maybe you, you know, where would your base of operations be in Europe if you were going to do this? I'm not saying you're going to do it. It would have to be England because I'm not bilingual because it didn't do great. I'm still mastering the English language alone going to know one. It would have to be England. I studied abroad in London if we want to just talk about that for the next hour. I could just do that because any kid who studied abroad only wants to talk about that.

So you would have to be England, probably London, because that's where I was shot at Queen Mary, University of London. And then, yeah, probably probably have a type of. contest with the Tritio or like maybe a how many people can you text in in one minute contest and then you know he would drag me there and with his 12 million followers versus my 50,000 and we'd move on and I'd come back here with my tail I'd get a big DP contract and you know just be content yeah don't go to Augsburg that's not a good that's not a good place we were we are going to talk about you studying abroad I didn't know you did that we're definitely going to do that you were let me well let me ask uh so

on a day where you don't break any big news, right? Like, so just a day where you're doing solid work, what is like the absolutely ideal thing that you're doing on the perfect day like that for like the first two hours? Honestly, part of that is talking to people and seeing kind of what's going on. So again, even if news doesn't come out of that,

I do enjoy talking to the people I have relationships with. And I guess what with writing, it'd be, right, just writing a good feature, honestly. Like, I did a good story on Jesse Marsh a couple last year where it was, you know, I talked to a lot of people that were in his life and it was like, hey, this is what Jesse was like when he was in MLS. And that came out really well.

It was very difficult. There was a lot of conversations with it. But like when it was coming together, like that felt really good because writing is difficult. Again, the people at the athletic are significantly better at it than I am. So I'm looking forward to hopefully getting better. but when it all hits and it all comes together on a feature, you kind of get the quotes you want. The lead is pretty clear in your mind.

You're not looking at the page. It's like, how should I start? It's like, oh, my God, yep, that's where I'm going to start. That's how it's going to go. And when the structure comes out and comes out pretty decent, it feels great. I have a question that's maybe a slight change of direction, but I do think it's maybe still connected. When were you able to first grow what you would consider a proper mustache?

This is like I've arrived as a mustache have. Ah, young 20? Probably just after college because I remember doing it as a bit, the no-shape November stuff as like freshman sophomore junior college. All right, it's not there. It looks funny.

But ha-ha, it's ironic because it's November. Right? You can't make fun of how patchy it is. And then I remember, I think I did it. One November, like after I graduated college, probably what? Okay. And at what point do you know professionally

that you were going to be a like official? a mustache guy. And is it presumptuous to me to assume that at this point, you're probably going to have it, if not forever, but indefinitely? Yeah, no, pretty much forever. I understand this is the brand. I think it's like the Bible story of Samson. When he cut off his hair, he loses power. I feel like that would have my mustache. But it was like a gradual thing where I remember one time, like, looking at me and I was like, oh, wow, like, this is still looks kind of stupid, but like it's not, it's enough that it could stay outside of November. Like, oh, that's dangerous because I might keep it. And,

and then it would be for a little longer. And then at some point, there was a critical mass where it went, I'm a mustache guy now. And then, you know, you would, it'd be, you'd take off for a month and then grow it back. And then a couple times a year, turns to twice a year. And now I can't cycle that.

Before we go to the break here, who's the funniest front office executive in MLS? No, I can't do that without, like, revealing the people that I talk to. Don't you talk to them all? Yeah, I do talk to them all. but then, you know, I don't want anybody to draw conclusions or risk anything about who I'm talking to. It would establish a close relationship if you're saying the funniest one. Let me, I'll go head coaches because they're on the record all of the time.

Yeah. Jim, Chris. Jim Curran comes to mind because he's, I feel like guys, but like on, he's too nice on press conferences for me to be like he's super, because he'll joke in press comments. But like, he's overly nice all the time. I think Phil Neville's got a really good personality. Peter Vermease is a guy who jokes around. I know he looks like a drill sergeant, so I think that something makes him funny.

Okay. That's surprising a little bit. He does look like a drill sergeant. So I think maybe that's part of why he comes in mind because it's like physical humor where it's like, oh, this guy shouldn't be laughing ever because he seems like he's in business all the time preparing for war.

But like he's a funny guy. Joaquin, unless you want to fit anything else in before we go private here, do you? I mean, I have a lot of questions. We're going to go deeper. into, you know, really Tom's childhood and see how really get to the heart of him, you know, no, I don't, I want to do it all in one burst. Okay.

Yeah. So if you're a patron, we'll return in a moment with the second half of the show. We'll ask some other listener questions on a range of MLS topics, the Apple TV deal, ask about how much of a tyrant Matt Doyle is, explore the beginnings of Tom's journalism career a little bit and his childhood, as Waki said, many other things. If you're listening to this on the public feed and want to hear the second half, join the Patreon. The link is in the show notes. We are 100% listener supported with no ads, and we would ask you to consider backing us.

We'll see you.