Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #402: John Tolkin joins the pod ahead of Gold Cup

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

Sanjay Sujanthakumar sat down with John Tolkin to talk about the upcoming Gold Cup, the MLS season so far, his hair, the difference between the national team and Red Bull New York, playing against Gio and Scally as a youth player, and several other things.----@tha_Real_Kumar----Scuffed is an ad-free podcast. Support that and get exclusive episodes once a week, plus access to the Discord and live call-in shows, by signing up for our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffed Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuff podcast, where we talk about U.S. soccer. Bell's here. This is the last of Sanjay Sujofantha Kumar's work for us in the past week. He did a lot of good work. Interviews with Luca Delatore and Joe Scali and then this one with John Tolkien. He also provided us with a bunch of audio from the mixed zones after the games against Mexico and Canada. We hope to get a lot more output out of Sanjay in the coming months. give him a follow on Twitter, The Real Kumar. Also in the show notes will be the link to our Patreon,

which we hope you will explore. Here's Sanjay's interview with John Tolkien. Welcome to Scuff Podcast. Sanjay here, and I'm joined by New York Red Bulls and U.S. Men's National Team Defender and Chadden New Jersey native John Tolkien. John, thanks for coming on the pod. No problem. Thank you for having me.

Does anyone actually call you John, or is it always, JMI? Can you tell our listeners where that nickname came from? Yeah, so very few people still call me John. If I'm in a room and somebody says John, it won't register with me. You have to be looking me in the eyes. But yeah, J.M.I. is what I've been called my whole life. And it's short for John Michael. And when I was very young, my uncle, I was just like, J.M.I.

And it just clicked. And ever since then. Yeah, it's like my name now. Let's get into the hard-in questions right away. Who cuts your hair? We have a team barber. Ariel Salazar. Everybody should check him out. He's the best.

Yeah, he cuts my hair, and he always has ideas for me, and it's perfect because that's the stuff I kind of like. I love trying new things with my hair, so, yeah, much respect for him. Which hairstyle has been your favorite so far, and why? When I had my really long hair a few months ago, that was probably my favorite. but this new hair could I have right now

I think it fits my head perfectly so right now I'm really rocking with this and I think I'll have it for a few months to come We're having this conversation in the middle of a roughly two-week break from games for Red Bulls. You've logged over 1,500 minutes this season already. Have you been able to recharge?

What have you done at the time off? Yeah, you know, it was a very tough stretch the past, was it a month and a half you know, a lot of games coming really quickly, a lot of travel. So, yeah, I was able to get a little escape down to the Bahamas, swimming with some pigs and sharks and, you know, recharge the battery. And, yeah, now I'm ready to go again. So let's get into soccer a bit here.

Some specific differences between your club system at Red Bull and the national team system. What are they? How hard is it to adjust? And which thing do you find most difficult and which are easier? Yeah, I think there's a big. different and similar. I think at Red Bull, it's more, we're okay with not having the ball as much. I think, you know, we want to win the ball closer to the opponent's net and then go straight to goal once we went off the press. But, you know, now that's our head coach, I think he's trying

to implement new ideas with the ball. Finding the six is more to break the lines. And I think with finding the sixes, I think that ties into the national team very well. You know, they want the sixes on the ball. And if you can get the six on the ball, you can break down teams. And, you know, at least when I was with Greg, when he was still to coach, he wanted the fullbacks to come inside a little bit, try and create 3B2s in the backline against their strikers. And, you know, it's all similar but different at the same time. And, you know, I'm happy to be able to play two different systems. Do you speak with anyone at Red Bull Global about your future as a player?

And not so much Red Bull Global. It's more my agent. You know, he has a good relationship with Red Bull Global. He's been working with them for a very long time. You know, he relays messages back to me, keep working hard, and, you know, hopefully something can happen there. But yeah, me personally, not much. So Greg had mentioned you and Brandon Basquez, two guys were close to making the roster last summer, about six months before the World Cup. During that last cycle, were you hoping you could still make the World Cup squad?

Was that on your mind as summer went on and you got closer to that? Yeah, I think it would be very hard to make that squad, considering that. I've never played a game before and to be called into a World Cup would be kind of a miracle, honestly. But yeah, I think that pre-World Cup camp that I went to right before they went to guitar, you know, I think I showed out well. And I was thinking maybe, you never know. But, you know, obviously I'm disappointed, but I can't really be upset that I wasn't called into it, you know. So let's talk more about that, Camp. We'd like to hear more about what the point.

process was like, the vibes, lessons from that camp, what were you told going in? How did Greg and Vijay deal with the players? What are they focused on in training? And were the leading voices in that camp? Tell us about that. Yeah, it was, you know, he called me before it started. He said, look, we're here to help the guys out to prepare for the World Cup. However that looks, I didn't know how it was going to be. But yeah, I was ready to help the guys out. And, you know, the leaders, obviously Walker, Yedlin, hold on, those guys. who've been around for a while, they definitely have a special place within that team, and guys respect them a lot.

In terms of preparing, it was just prepare for England, prepare for Wales, prepare for the games they were going to have. So, you know, they had a match plan how they thought those teams were going to play, and we simulated that. And I thought it was very positive. Basically, though, it was trying to break down, potentially trying to break down who they're going to be playing against. But then they were also teaching me, you know, how the U.S. wants to play.

So it was a lot of information, but it was good for me, and I think it prepared me well for the January camp. How has the cut of BJ's Jib? What are your thoughts on him? Yeah, he's a legend, man. You know, he's a New Jersey guy. So we've got some banter there. I think he's greatly respected for anybody who's played with him under him.

him. I think it's great for him. It's a great opportunity. He has a lot of influence within the group for the little time that I've seen. And yeah, just guys respect him a lot and, you know, he deserves it. So tell me about January camp. There's a lot of noise in the background regarding the men's national team, but you're in a short camp with a chance to make your debut along with many other guys. What were the vibes like? And how do you think you did in training? Yeah, it was strange. You know, one week I was in preseason with Red Bull and then I'm on a playing out to California for two games in a week with the national team. And obviously Greg wasn't there, so the atmosphere was a little different, a lot of new faces.

But to be honest, there wasn't a whole lot of training because, you know, I had just played in a preseason game. Then I think it was two games before we played. It was in Serbia. So it was kind of more walk-through, kind of just match plan. And then after the Serbia game, it was kind of light again because guys' fitness levels were different, minutes were different. So yeah, all the training

was fairly light just in preparation for the games. So tell me more about your debut. Sold out crowd, a lot of Colombian fans, great atmosphere, very intense game. What was that night? Yeah, you wouldn't think we're playing in America with the crowd, all

Colombian. But, no, it was amazing. Like, there's really no words to describe it. It almost, like, I don't really remember any of it. You know, when like something happens, it's so crazy, and you kind of just black out after. It was kind of like that.

But, you know, in the moment I was enjoying every bit of it. Playing next to my former teammate Aaron, that was super special as well. And, yeah, I know, I wish we would have won that game. But, you know, overall it was a very positive night and felt super blessed after, you know. That opportunity doesn't come a long lot. So, yeah.

So let's rewind a bit. A couple of guys in national team pool who might know well. Did you play against Gio Raina and Joe Scali as a youth player? Yeah, man. And any good stories from those matchups? Nah, we hated playing those guys because, I mean, they just, they built like a super squad. I think everybody from that academy team is pretty much a professional player right at this point. You know, we were always the underdogs going into that game.

I don't think we ever beat them. Yeah, it was just very frustrating playing them, especially because I played with Gio and Skylade with the youth national team, so it was always fun to play against them, but also very frustrating as well. Yeah, a lot of good memories though from playing them in the youth system. Tell me about life growing up and shadow how you got into soccer and other sports and you like basketball as well, right? Yeah.

What would like to grow up there? Yeah, I mean, my talent is. Everybody plays sports, at least the boys. There's so much to do, so many fields, so many different things you can do with sports. So I play just about everything you can think of. And as time went along, you know, I think I realized soccer might be the way for me. And I had to drop these sports.

You know, I love basketball. I love football. I love baseball, all these sports. But yeah, you know, I played for the local rec team. Then I moved to the local town team. and then, you know, to Ironbound and Red Bull. But, yeah, I'm super grateful for those youth teams and, you know, amazing memories looking back at it.

And I still talk to all the guys I played with. And it's just a super special place to play. So you spent four years in the academy and then decided to go the USL route. It sounds like your money had some convincing on passing home in college. Tell us about the jump from Academy to USL and how much USL preps you for the school.

that for first team? Yeah, I think it was personal, yeah, tough for my mom. You know, I think every mom in the world probably wants their kid to get a proper education. My dad said, do what you want, you know. You have that feeling, you know what you want. But yeah, Academy to USL, man, it's

big, like, just the physical part of the game. You know, it's a whole new step up from the academy. I'm playing against, you know, grown men versus guys my age. So, um, you know, learning to use my body in ways that that'll give me the best, you know, possible chance to win the duel or tackle or get the best positioning. It's definitely new for me, but, you know, I give a lot of credit to Iber and John Wolniak.

You know, they threw me right into the fire and, you know, you know, I just learned very quickly, you know, what that level was like. And, yeah, I'm super grateful for my time there. How are you converted to left back? Tell us about that transition. Yeah, so it was weird. It happened right when I left Iron Mountain to join Red Bull Academy, and we had so many midfielders on our team.

Coach Phil at the time, he's the best, by the way. He's like, yeah, let's just try you there. We'll see what it's like. And I knew nothing about the position, no idea how to play it. But I think slowly, you know, I started to pick up on it, and I was like, oh, maybe this is the spot for me. and ever since there I've sometimes switched back to midfield but it's mostly been left back and

you know I kind of like being able to play both but I do like left back a lot yeah well you played as a wing back and a full back which do you prefer and talk about the differences I like just fullback left back more probably I like the defensive aspect of it less running certainly less running But I still got young legs so I can do it. I just like the grittiness of defending.

You know, I take pride in defending and not allowing goals. You know, that really motivates me. With wingback, I think it's, I mean, it's both. Attacking and offending. It's a, I don't want to say it's more of her responsibility, but some might say it is, just because, you know, you're kind of required to do both. But, yeah, I mean, I like them both in different ways, but if I have to pick between one, it'd probably be fullback.

I asked you about, I don't know if you remember this, I asked you about transfer speculation in the mix zone after the game against Serbia and, yeah, yeah. And you said to me, you never know something could happen in the next few days. You're a very, you're smiling community here, and you truly have me on the edge of my seat. So you said you want to be in Europe by next season. Is that undermined a lot as we get closer to summer and Domino's could potentially start to fall? Yeah, that's my dream. I'm not going to hide that.

That's what I want to do. You know, I'm working with my agent, figuring out the time and what would work best. But yeah, that's what I want in my future. That's what I think is important for me, for my development. So yeah, we'll see what happens. But, yeah, that's what I want. In terms of style of play, what are you looking for

if and when you do move on to your next club? Do you prefer a team that's all about high pressure, verticality, or would you be open to a totally different approach? How important to style of play in terms of you deciding what would be the right fit? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, me personally, I would love more of a possession-based team. With that being said, I love pressing in the Red Bull style a lot, and I think it's maybe a more versatile player. But me personally, you know, I like to think of myself as a more technical possession-based player, and I think that would suit me the best.

I think that's where I could really, you know, I guess you could say come out of my shell, just have the freedom to do what I want with my ideas. I'm not saying I don't have that now, but yeah, I think maybe a team that is more focused on that can bring up the best of me. Back to the national team, so what are your expectations now for the Gold Cup coming up? How do I talk about this? This is just like...

This isn't coming out to like next time. Okay, okay. Yeah, I think the trophy is what everybody expects, I think. I just talking to my teammate, Cory Burke, he said Jamaica is bringing a full roster, so I think they're going to be a tricky opponent. But yeah, I think any time, you know, it's a tournament like this, it's a trophy, and that's what we're expecting. We'll see how that goes. But, yeah, that's, I mean, that's what I have my mind made up on. Eagles, for you personally, like, you look at this as the chance to really lock down a spot with the team?

Yeah, I think it's a huge opportunity, you know. I thought I showed out well in the Columbia game, but this is, I feel like more people might be watching this, and I think it's a bigger opportunity to really showcase myself, showcase what I can do, and yeah, hopefully, you know, lock down the spot and be a consistent national team player. A few more here. I appreciate you taking the time.

Does it bother you that it's the New York Red Bulls and there's no mention of New Jersey? No, man, I don't care. I don't care. New Jersey Red Bull does not sound right. Yeah, and NYCFC will say, oh, they're from Jersey. Yeah, but you play in our stadium, so get the hell out of here, man. So I don't want to hear none of that. But, yeah, no, it doesn't bother me.

It doesn't bother me. How often do you get recognized in public? If you get on Andrew Transit to go to New York, what's that like can people even keep up with the hairstyle change? Yeah, honestly. It happens. I was actually on the train the other month and I was recognized it might be the tattoo or the hair. I think that might be a, hey, that's him. But no, I'm always super grateful if that happens, you know. I really appreciate fans and to me it's this crazy concept. Like how are you a fan? I'm just a normal guy like you. But yeah, it's super humbling and it's always fun to meet new people and, you know, see what their life is kind of.

I always try to have a little quick conversation if anybody comes up to me, and yeah, just super grateful for it. You said you're like talking to players during games, so do you ever try to talk trash to, or are you just chilling out there? Like, are you being friendly and the opposite of what people expect from Jersey people? I am, I hope people can vouch for me if they hear us. I'm actually one of the nicest, like in terms of verbal communication with players. I never talk shit. NYCFC might be the only team where I do. I don't know if you remember last year in the Open Cup

where the guy had budded me. I wasn't even saying anything negative. I just don't think he spoke English, so he thought I was talking smack. So, yeah, I never really say anything. Maybe I shouldn't, or, yeah, just talking smack. The refs, on the other hand, recently, I've been an absolute disgrace, but I might have a few words for them.

But with that being said, I'm also so kind to the rest as well, you know. I think overall, I don't think the players would have anything negative to say that I've said to them. So, yeah, I think it's, you know, fun to kind of have a little chitchat here and there on the field with the other team. So, yeah. Are you still an Everton fan, and do you still watch them a lot? I am and I'm very grateful that they survived this year. I think it would be a disaster if they got relegated. Yeah, I still watch them.

It's hard. This year was hard watching them, but yeah, I'll stay loyal to them. That's my team. You're going to play for them one day, maybe? Yeah, 100%. That would be awesome. That would be awesome. Last question here.

In addition to we golf, what do you enjoy doing off the pitch? Do you really like golf? What would else? Yeah, we golf is huge. I've been trying to get out to play real-life golf more with the schedule congestion. I just don't have the energy. But I love to fish. I'm probably going to go today after this.

Where do you go? Right around, Chad. There's a bunch of rivers, ponds, catch some trout, maybe some bass. But yeah, I just love to me in nature and not sit on my phone all day. And I can clear my mind. and yeah, it's just super relaxing for me. And also it was a good time killer, I guess, if I have nothing else to do. So, yeah, fishing right now is one of my biggest hobbies.

Awesome, Jim. I thank so much for taking the time. Good luck and both guys. Appreciate it.