Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #421: WoSo — WC postmortem, turning the page, honesty about the prize money

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

Vince, Tara and Belz mull over Vlatko's deficiencies and the underperformance put on by most of our attackers, bemoan the way almost nobody acknowledges how equal pay was actually achieved, and call for the Fed to turn the page as fast as possible. 37:40 prize money discussion ----Scuffed is an ad-free podcast. Support that and get exclusive episodes once a week, plus access to the Discord and live call-in shows, by signing up for our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/scuffed Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuff podcast where we talk about U.S. soccer. Hey, everybody, it's Wednesday. Tara and Vince here with me, and we're going to talk Woso. The World Cup continues tomorrow night with Spain versus the Netherlands. Obviously, the USA is out. How angry are we this morning? I would say my anger has subsided a little bit. It's a calm, quiet rage, which is dangerous.

The most dangerous kind of rage, I would say. Vince? I don't know. I'm just ready for the change to come. I'm ready for the change to come. The team was basically stringing us along, basically stringing us along with the fact that they were putting up these, that we were not conceding shots that we had decent XG numbers

and all these different types of things. So it's like you have that thought that like, hey, you know, we could put four or five games together, even though the performances are looking like some, they're not looking good. So I don't know. I'm just, I'm just, I would say that I'm just ready to turn the page, ready to turn the page. I'm not a big grudge holder.

And race in Louisville did, but race in Louisville did in the World Cup. So I'm leaving here with something. Yeah, true. We're at a fork in the road, right? So like, that's what I'm most interested in. Like, what path are we about to take? It could go very right. It could go very wrong.

Should I read the mealy mouth statement from U.S. soccer in response to the exit? Please. I think I will. While we are all disappointed that our journey has ended at the Women's World Cup, we want to thank the players, coaches, and staff for their remarkable effort and to our fans, both in the stands and at home for their unwavering support. As we always do, after a major tournament, we will conduct a review to identify areas of improvement and determine our next steps.

As we look ahead, we embrace the hard work necessary to become shableness. champions again. So Vladko's out. I mean, that's it. I mean, that's, that's a given, right? His contract expired after the World Cup. So theoretically, he's already out. I mean, we haven't gotten any statements yet, but I, I'm just begging Matt Crocker

to be taking this seriously. Vladko being out statement isn't nearly enough for what we have to do. I'm looking forward to hearing Tracy Kevin's loser job, Kate Mark Graff lose her job, Vladko lose his job, bring it all on. Yeah, speaking of Tracy Kevin's, did a little research on our Youth World Cup results on the women's side over the last seven years. 2022 U20 World Cup out in the group. 2022 U17 World Cup out in the group.

2018 U20 World Cup out in penalties to Nigeria and the first knockout game. game, 2018, U-17 World Cup, out in the group, last in our group. 2016, U-20 World Cup, out in the semifinals to North Korea in extra time. 2016, U-17 World Cup, out in the group. It's not good. That's, those are, I mean, that's not the end-all be-all, but, you know, taken together with this exit, it's not a positive picture that it paints. Yeah, and this past.

U-20 World Cup. It was horrible. Or was it Kankakaf that we watched, U-20 Kankakaf? Well, no, the one, last summer's U-20 World Cup, where we lost, where we went out in the group. Yeah. Okay. It was bad. I was making sure that was the World Cup and not Kankakaf.

I get them confused. But I'm somebody who I absolutely didn't care about that result at all. And now I'm realizing I was fully part part of the problem. I want them all gone. A roster with Alyssa Thompson and Jaden Schall and Corbyn Alper and Michelle Cooper, like we had no excuses for that result. And, you know, at the time it was it was all about development. And even Tracy Kevin's even said, this isn't the sense, this isn't the space to like,

like fully worry about results. It's about making sure that these players are developed in a way to make them the best soccer players that they can be. I want to go on too. I want to be rid of these embarrassing results. See you later, Mrs. Trunch Bull. Yeah, yeah, we got to get Tracy out of here. Because like, like, I think me and Tara's view was about the same.

It's like, yo, the players are still coming out. You know what I'm saying? It's like these results are what they are. but the players they were producing are still very good. I think in one of those results, I feel like it was a squad of like Jalen Howe, Sav de Mello, like Trinity, something like, like I don't know which year it was exactly,

but it was in one of those, one of those, yeah, like it was in the list that you name bells. And it's just, yeah, it's ridiculous. And so I guess with the whole world catching up thing, before this World Cup, I was sitting there thinking, I'm like, yo, we still got players. like it is what it is.

They're producing players. But it's so when Tara talks about Tracy saying that, you know, the results aren't Dan Daubial, we're worried about development. Tracy Ball is not developing anybody. No. Like, I mean, just the most like parodied version of what like possession soccer could be. Like her and black hole. And really, I've been a, I've been an Ernie Stewart guy.

Well, I don't know if I've been an Erie Stewart guy or not. but I feel like I've been coming around on them lately. But this has to be a huge strike on his. Because he did do the vertical integration or whatever. The U-17s played the best ball of the whole bunch with Natalia Estrain. They were playing ball. They were playing ball. Tracy was trying to play ball, but I guess he didn't have the facilities to be able to teach it.

And we all know what Blackco did. So despite the attempt to get this national. identity and have the vertical integration going going down from the senior team to the youth teams. It failed. It failed miserably. And we got to get a lot more, like, we're always going to produce talent at the very, like, rock bottom of what it could be if everyone does pass us or whatever, like, with just the,

the participation of like girls in America playing soccer and all that. I feel like, I mean, at the very worst, we get down to like fifth, sixth, sixth, seventh, as far as like overall player pool or something. And that's taking like the most pessimistic look at it and in my opinion. But yeah, we just got to get serious on everything outside of that. Like we have the pool. Have the pool of girls playing soccer. That's not an issue.

But everything else, we need to get more serious. Yeah, I'm starting to see. So Tracy Kevin's keeping her job. Megan Rapino keeping her job as the, you know, like the first or second sub off the bench. The lack of exploration of the player pool from Vlako, the poor roster construction, Ertz at centerback over Cook, keeping Morgan at the nine over Smith, the lack of subs versus the Netherlands. All this stuff. Vlako is sort of just, you know, stay in the course on his, what he was doing, which wasn't really working all along. It's just starting to feel

more like hubris or maybe complacency. Right. Maybe both. And we just got like the next coach just has to be like hungrier for improvement and progress and like pressing advantages. And I guess another thing about that is it isn't really documented anywhere definitively, but it feels like Vlako's main selling point was that he was friends with the old guard. No, it, I mean like I said no, but you're right. So much of it was the players really supported Flakos nomination, I guess. Screw that. you know a lot a lot of players like were were more than excited about him he was a great club coach

and and they're coming out of a lot of hell uh in the in the yates report and everything about that but being likable is is not a qualifying characteristic to be the national team coach no and for me we have a lot more to say about flat coat yes he absolutely needs to to get fired, but I really don't think it's acceptable until Kate is out of a job as well. She's the general manager of women's soccer. Do we know what kind of role she played? Absolutely not. But as the general manager of women's soccer, you see that we never tried anything else. We never brought anyone new into the pool. We have consistently failed on many easily achievable things, I think. Yeah, just to give people the timeline as a refresher, she took over as general manager right after the 2019 World Cup that we won, you know, under Jill Ellis.

And she was in charge when Vlako was hired that fall. Again, we don't know exactly, like, was it her call to hire Vlako? I mean, she had some role in it, right? She had to have been in the conversation. Yeah. And then she stuck with him all the way through today, through those Olympics. And through the, yeah, stood by her. man, as they say.

I was stick beside him. And I think it's important to note that this isn't Matt Crocker's person. You know, Matt Crocker got hired in. He had he had the staff already laid out on the women's side. There's no reason I feel like she should be safe in the conducting a review of what has happened. Yeah. Yeah. This is the big, the big overarching point for me, just, yo, it's time to get serious because everyone else is getting serious. And it's like, you know, with the parody that we've seen in the World Cup and everything, this is just approaching, you know, the levels of like of

brosso, if you want to call it. Just as far as like the fact that like only the serious survive. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like only the serious survive at this point. We can't rest out on laurels, can't be complacent. of that. So like if we want to be who we have been and who we think we are currently then, hey, I would hope that Matt Crocker is taking this

whole fiasco seriously and, you know, that we get an equal and an opposite reaction from our performance in this World Cup. And it should be, we should be able to tell this within the next two, three months. Like what we got a,

we got friendlies in September, right? We have friendly in September. Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, if we still, we call her, call it Megan, like, like, oh, Megan's not retired yet, you know what I'm saying? Go ahead. It's, we should be able to see something different coming in this next month, month and a half. Something, something I want to talk about before we move, move forward. So much of the stain around Flatco or on Flatco for me was how, how little he utilized Katarina Macario in the Olympics in the 2020 or 2021 Olympics.

And it's been noted plenty of places, but she got seven minutes in the Olympics. And I think something that's going to come out of this World Cup is going to be how little he utilized Alyssa Thompson. Alyssa got 16 minutes, so a little bit of an improvement upon Kat's time. but yeah, I just, I see the two similarities really clearly, and I just think it's really embarrassing. She could have been a difference maker, and it goes back to like the complacency around Vladco, because in the Portugal game and in the Sweden game,

we went for a tie. We were thinking about penalty kicks instead of... And the Netherlands, too. Yeah. Like Alyssa Thompson... being that attacker off the bench in the 70th or 80th minute in these final games where we saw Megan come in, that's two different games. That's, I want to win and I'm taking it seriously.

Or I have a designated penalty kick spot and might as well get her warmed up a little bit before she takes one. This one didn't turn out too well. Right. What was you guys' thought when Megan missed the penalty? Mine was actually really similar to hers. Like I was shocked. You were cackling.

It fully was that absurd of a thought. Like we've talked on here plenty of times. She doesn't miss penalty kicks. That's her one thing. And it's not like, it's not like, hey, she misses one out of six or or some still really impressive stat. She doesn't miss. And she missed really bad. It was terrible.

I think I heard on Diaspora United. She was 21 for 22 in her career. Wow. 21 for 22 in her career before stepping up there. It made me like really mad at vodka again. Like it felt like it was scripted. It felt like it was not real. To have Megan Rapino there and to make Sophia.

take the last one. Like, it felt scripted. It was like, and now we're going to pass the torch. And now it's gone. And look, this new player is now in charge of the team. It felt absurd. You had Megan there. And she went what?

Like fourth, third, fourth? Fourth. Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy. I mean, which, you know, sometimes the universe has a way of telling you to sit your ass down. and it spoke clearly you know what I'm saying like Megan Megan yeah you're a legend you're a legend like like I said the first U.S. kit I ever bought was a Megan Rapino okay uh I'm I'm a big fan I'm a big fan but hey it's time it's time I mean there there's there's no there's no bigger sign the universe

could give you than you stepping up to the penalty spot with the opportunity to basically ice it for us and and you sky and you sky it like she knew Because right, she's announced her retirement or whatever, whatever. Like in case she needed any other further pushing out of the door is just like, yo, it's Tom dog. It hopefully was a lesson to a lot of players. Like, don't go too long. Don't go too long. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I'm more in the camp of the universe finds a way to like let you know. Her at 37 going up there to ice a game with a penalty, that's a perfectly fine scenario from our point of view, right? It worked out how Vlako kind of wanted it to. You know, if he was, if he was in fact playing for a tie, we got... That was the only way we were talking ourselves into the Megan Rapino inclusion. Right. You know what I'm saying? It worked out.

It worked out. But I think, like, Rupino on the field in the run of play, you know, we've been over it a lot. Just not, just not good enough. And I do wonder, like I said, it hasn't been documented anywhere. But I do wonder if just like Vlako was starstruck a little bit by her and Alex Morgan and, you know, the whole previous generation, and he could not be independent from them, you know? He did seem, he very much seemed, the esteemed,

Beaumani Jones talks about a phenomenon called Lemon Booty. Well, you know, that, when your sphincter, when it tightens up, you know what I'm saying, when you're in a precarious situation, and, you know, when you get nervous and everybody knows what I'm talking about sitting there on the pod. Yeah, I get it all the time. Yeah. And yeah, you could just tell Blackco had it. Like, his just, the fact that he was so scared to go for wins against the Netherlands.

I mean, we talked about the DAP after the Netherlands match. He was happy as hell with that draw. He was happy as hell with that draw. Portugal, where he, you know, in the media after he said he wasn't as happy, but, you know, and then Sweden, where to me, he pretty much, yeah, threw in the white flag and waited for penalties. It just seemed to me that he was scared. And it's like, man, what are you scared of? We haven't given up a shot.

I mean, what do you think? Like, if we open it up just a tad more that we're going to give up four shots, like two shots, like four shots on goal instead of two in this World Cup or something? It's just like, man, why? If you've been watching this World Cup guys, there aren't too many teams with more talent, like pure talent than the U.S. As it stands currently. Like, I mean, we've seen some of the,

the performances of, you know, the alleged favorites against random teams. And it's like, we are right up there. Like I said, even the greatest realization of our demise still puts us within distance to win a World Cup. Oh, yeah. And we were nowhere close to winning a World Cup. Tara, you wanted to talk a little bit about, like, Macario's injury and how that, you know, how that sort of played out under Blockco.

And I think that's, we should get into that. that a little bit. Yeah. So, I mean, it was something that you could see, but it was never really addressed, at least from my understanding, until recently where you can find, you know, hundreds of articles about the demise of our World Cup. But this article came from Jason Anderson, where he laid out four reasons why we had such a bad World Cup. And it was really similar to, you know, many of the pieces coming out right now. But this one included how the injuries affected his plan. And this bit is making its rounds online a little bit. But he says, Flatko asked Morgan to replicate some of Macario's tendencies, which the veteran star did sometimes do very well. He's alluding to the assist on Smith's

opening goal, the flicks, basically. Yeah, that was really, that was lovely. And however, her game has always been to stay high. And Morgan wasn't her best self trying to balance her instincts and gifts against the fact that the team was built around its center forward as more of a creator than a goal score. I wanted to bring it up because I think it's important to note this is telling me right here that there was no plan B after the injuries after Kat, but especially after Mal being as it was so much more recent. And that's a big strike against Kate, I think, just as much as Wadco of not realizing that you can't play the same exact way with a Katerina Mcario versus an Alex Morgan.

What do you guys think? Yeah, it's interesting because I guess I didn't really think of Morgan as being in Vlako's mind, a plug-in play replacement for, for Macario. If he thought about it any more deeply than that, certainly hasn't illustrated that anywhere. So there you go. I think it also speaks volumes to how little he set up the wingers for success. Like Sophia and Trinity have been taking a lot of flack.

But they apparently were playing as if they still had Catarina Macario. in the middle and they didn't. So like in the in the recap pod, which was excellent. Like they, they always, they always bring a new light to the game for me. But you and Greg both. Me too for what it's worth. You and both, you and Greg both made, made sure to say a few times that Alex was pretty good, pretty solid. And that's true.

But when, when does pretty good and pretty solid equal? not making Sophia Smith play an unnatural position. That's what I keep getting stuck on. Yeah, yeah. That was one thing for me that I took away as well, Tara. It's just like, yeah, she acquitted herself well. Alex did. She did fine.

She did fine. But when you have a greater potential upside from a different player in that position and just a greater floor, I believe. Just sitting there. Somebody who's absolutely, you know, torn the NWS out of shreds. Like, it's just, Sophia didn't, like, didn't have to be out there on the touchline the way that she was. Like, okay, instead of Alex dropping back, how about you keep Alex high and drop, like, Sof in and have somebody, you know, hold the width on the outside, preferably.

Like, if Crystal Dunn's going to play left back, then bring Crystal Dunn up, right? Sof, half space, a little something, a little something like that. Like, I don't know. It opens up to a bigger question for me. do we only get to progress as a team when these players stop being pretty good or fine or pretty solid? Like, did Alex need to crash and burn in order for Sophia to get a look? Or are we just good with, you know, players deciding when they stop being on the national team? Like a Megan Rapino.

This goes back to the complacency, right? to the laurel resting, we have to pursue the best available option. And, you know. We obviously haven't done that. We obviously haven't done that. We obviously haven't done that. And what have you done for me lately?

You know what I'm saying? Like, I think it was, there was a clip that came up on the Discord of, like, the Bill Simmons podcast, which he's taking a great interest in this, in this women's World Cup. And I think there was a stat that, like, Alex has scored two goals in our last 17 World Cup games.

If you take out, Thailand. If you take out Thailand from 2019, she scored two goals in our last 17 World Cup game. Bro, it, Dells, I see your face. I didn't know it was that bad. That's a ridiculous goal record from our striker. That's a ridiculous goal record.

And as bad as, as bad as Megan Rapino was in the run of play, she did set up Alex with like two basically golden chances in that, was that Portugal at the end? Yeah. Like like two little through balls to Alex where it's like I'm back in Sophia to do a informed confidence Sophia because like you could just see it on the penalty like everything all of our powers were zapped throughout this experience in the in the World Cup it just seemed like it was just uh it had built up to to a place in her head where she just she just wasn't herself

which you know youth and whatnot which which which might be part of our arrogance just the fact that like, hey, we felt like we could throw Sophia Smith, Trinney Rodman, first World Cup, and it was going to take the world by storm. But I don't know. I don't know. We can get back to that later. But yeah, Alex, she did all right. acquitted herself well, right?

But, like, her performance in front of goal, she did not acquit herself well. And this has been a recurring issue. And, you know, people get on us. People get on us for, you know, bringing up our Alex Morgan doubts, current stage, Alex Morgan. But hey, when you go out, when you go out like this, everybody's under the microscope at this point. Should we read Sophia's reaction? She posted something on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah, you read Tara. Sophia posted something last night, which again, I'm like, why is Sophia the first person posting at all? Like, we brought so many leaders to be leaders. I find it suspect. But

Sophia said, heartbroken. This World Cup was filled with just about every emotion. possible. What I've learned is more valuable than any experience I've ever had. Thank you to those who believed and supported us throughout the tournament, and most importantly to those who still do and never stopped. It wouldn't be life without moments like this, and I know without a doubt we will be back and hungrier than ever. Which is a great, good, but I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, you know, this is her villain origin story. You know what I'm saying? Yep.

You're going to take this. You're going to take your failures, you know, and come out better. It reminds me. You know, I also, I actually liked Carly Lloyd's message to Sophia. Like, you know, you will come back stronger. I missed a penalty in 2011. You know, in between talking about, like, people missing their massage therapy appointments, she did manage to put together a good message to Sophia.

And I feel terrible for Sophia. But, yeah, the fact is she underperform. in this tournament. And she's not, I don't think she's going to do that twice. It reminds me a little bit about Lauren James, who is equally hyped, if not more, on the world stage. Young, she's 21, Sophia's 22. Sophia, you know, as much as I say she was not set up for success,

she did, she did, you know, missed, missed the last penalty and it's crushing and everything. And Lauren James stomped on that player's butt. I think the difference is how the teams are coming out about it. Like, England's posted, England's posted, like, Lauren is so sorry and she will learn from this. And I just, I find, I have been finding the similarities between the two, two paths. to be funny. It's a stretch. Wait.

Wait, wait, but Sophia doesn't really have, I mean, she doesn't have anything to be sorry for, right? I mean, she didn't. No, no, it's just how I guess we're speaking about the two of them, which I'm not at all comparing the two incidents, but they have just been both like very, very hyped up and to see what they are doing has been interesting to me. By the way, the player that Lauren James stomped on is Michelle Aloisi. proud to say that she's yeah proud to say that she is a fellow

American and like what like cancer researcher yeah yeah she's she's a impressive person and less less impressive than you know battling children's cancer but she also stopped England like frustrated the hell out of England

kept it kept it zero zero all game like that was a phenomenal game but very much outside of the point. Right. Kayla Murray from ESPN called Rodman and Smith. I don't know if you guys saw this, but she called them, quote, potent, but one-dimensional, end quote, attackers.

What do you guys think of that? I think that they weren't, I don't know how to I don't say this. I think that they don't suit attacking with Alex Morgan. Like I think Megan Rapino does. you know, the balls right to Alex's head or right into Alex. I don't think Sophia or Trinity play that type of winger. And it made them look bad. I think it's another Vladko hit more so than a hit on either of them, Vince.

I don't know. I'm sitting here mulling it, thinking about it. You want me to say what I think about it? Yeah, go ahead. I think they're actually quite different from each other. I think Rodman is more multi-dimensional than Smith is. Although I don't think it's a fair description of Smith either. It's a more fair description of Smith than Rodman, I guess I would say.

Because Robin's a passer, you know. Robin's a... She is. She's a creator for others. She definitely, yeah. Yeah, she definitely can be as far as like playing. just inch perfect balls. Like, I mean, we've seen it from Trin.

Yeah. Just as far as, yeah. She can, she can definitely uncork some passes that are just world class in nature. And I think it's, yeah, it's just tough that these were the games that were based on all. Like, like, like, like, like, Sof is, is, she, she's not just a one v1 merchant, you know what I'm saying? She's good in combination. She can make runs off the ball, receive it. And, and, and scoring is just, uh, I, um, I,

Of course, we didn't see it in this, in this, uh, World Cup. No. Because, you know, Alex, Alex isn't going to like hold the ball and find somebody. You know, she'll hit the flick. She'll hit the flick for somebody to run onto. But as far as like, like, like, like playing a one to with Alex Morgan. I don't necessarily think that's, uh, in the cards. But, so I would, like, I guess it's probably closer to true than not.

But I don't know. I don't know. They have clubs in the bag that we just weren't able to see. I mean, just being, like, what can you do when you're out on a touchline supported by nobody? Like, I mean, I mean, you're going to look pretty damn one-dimensional. You and Greg talked about this, like the questions were left with afterwards, like Sophia and Alex. Gate, like, which one do you go with? Gate.

But to me, but to me, another one. One is if Trinity wasn't sick. Like she had the flu. She was on minutes restrictions. I'm wondering if that would have given us anything else, especially in the Sweden game, which I thought she was pretty good at. She was good.

She was good in Sweden game. But she had to come out in 60th minute. I also think I saw a tweet where someone said she vomited on the sideline. Oh, I didn't see that. I had that reaction to her because I thought you were going to bring up one. Lindsay Horan. And it's, it's, it's, I, like, I have some questions. I have some questions.

I, I, I'm just sitting here wondering how we move forward with Lindsay Horan, specifically in the midfield. Yeah. Specifically in the midfield for me. Because, like, like, I, uh, for, like, for that Sweden match, I woke up at, like, I, I, like, slept my alarm. I woke up at, like, 525 or something, 526. So, like, the games, the game's already going on, right?

I mean, you can tell what point I was in the game when I started watching, you know, 25th, 26 minutes, something like that. And, you know, I saw our setup and I was like, okay, we look better. We're like possessing the ball. But like with the four of Sof, Alex, Lindsay, and Tren, I was just like, eh. It just wasn't doing it for me. It just wasn't doing it for me. And like, I don't know. The whole match I was just kind of, I was like, I don't know if we're going to, I don't know.

to me we didn't look like scoring and because because I came in like the 25th 26 minute I think I missed all of trinities uh exploits like I didn't see her shot um at all or anything like that but yeah it's just okay you got a double pivot Lindsay herean as a 10 so we we've we've noted that she can't she can't hold it down as an eight next to a next to a 10 type like right rose um so that like that like that like that's a no Rose also underperformed when she did play. Yeah. Right.

And so we're seeing Lindsay as a 10 now in this match. And she played okay. She played okay. But it just seems to me like as far as a 10, I need creation. And Lindsay's a finisher. You know, like her best moment of that match, right, was that shot. Oh, it was a great shot. Yeah, it was an excellent shot.

They got the miraculous save or whatever. Bell, you talked about in the recap, right? Her ability to like one time she had multiple. times, you know, received it, was able to eliminate somebody just off the half turn or whatever. But once she eliminates them, she can't do any. Like, yeah, that's fair. You, like, like, you mentioned the point in the timeline. It's like, yeah, she did this amazing turn.

It's just amazing how she has this ability to, you know. And then she plays a bad pass. She played, she played it out of the touch. Like, it's like, yo, if you're going to be a, if you, if you're going to be a 10, I need you to create. And the fact that, like, when she makes those turns, she can't carry the ball and, like, press that advantage that she's created, it only has to be, it only can be passes and I don't think she's that good of a passer. It's just, it's just an entire conundering for me. I'm extremely

intrigued about what, what the next coach is going to do with Lindsay. The next coach is going to start Lindsay Horan, guys. It just felt like we, we had no, there was not a scenario where Lindsay wasn't playing every minute of every game. Lindsay was the captain. Lindsay got, you know, there was a basically a ceremony from from carly lloyd handing the reins over to lindsay and ever since it was her team and you know she she had she had a great goal but like so many others she underperformed she's intriguing she's she's capable of of being an exciting attacker but nothing else i'd like yeah like like like i think lindsay with no legs at this point is a striker yeah like she just can't be She can't be a midfielder for me.

Like maybe with the double pivot, but like I said, we're not, we're not good enough chance creation. Like, you know, the XG was what it was. And you can, you can argue about it or whatever. But it's like, yo, if we have a better creator there, we probably have more opportunities at goal. And I like Lindsay a lot more as a 10 than an eight. But the only reason we saw that was because Rose is second yellow. That's the only reason. I don't believe for a second we would have gotten that without.

It is a conundrum, but like, I don't know if I put the lack of chance creation entirely on Lindsay here. Like, I mean, you know, as Greg documented so thoroughly and, you know, borderline obsessively, the, our, we did not press the advantage that we had with Trinity against Jonah Anderson. The times when Trinity did get a shot off, it was because it was because the ball accidentally went to. So who? And that's on Lindsay. And that's on Lindsay. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So bad reads by Lindsay there, or like no instructions from Volaco, probably some combination of the two. Right. But, you know, but Trinity and Sophia both got like, they got the, they got in position. They got AVPs. They got in position to do something in the final third with regularity, I thought, in this game. And, you know, we just didn't put the ball in the back of the net.

I don't know. I don't know. For me, it's just, okay, if you got Lindsay as a 10, Alex Morgan as a 9, there's just no dynamism threatening central spaces. I guess a defense for me, right? Yeah. I mean, it's just like, you know, that strike from Lindsay that you guys both agree was really good. That's a, that's a strike that, you know, Kili and Mbapap would be happy with. And the header on frame. I mean, I just think she, she, she, she brings a lot but I don't want to die on a Lindsay Horan Hill. No, no, no. What you're saying is that she's an amazing attacker. But she can't be a striker. She can't be a striker. She can't stretch the line, you know?

She can't run. Yeah. So you'd rather have somebody who can't run in the middle of? This is what I'm saying. Like the fact that she just has no legs, zero legs is just like, it hurts, man. It's hard to put her somewhere. I am going to try. It's a conundrum, no doubt about it.

I'm going to try. commit to watching more more Leon. It's a completely different game because she has little to no responsibility out there, but I want to watch more. I'm going to try. Well, okay, so Vlako out

obviously and Tara, you're saying Mark Graff out and I'm not against that. I just want I want us to take it seriously. Vince, you want us to take it seriously. I do want to talk. We have to be super careful about this, but I do want to talk about the prize money a little bit.

So the women will take home 3.25 million from this tournament. And thanks to the new collective bargaining agreement for the women in 2022, this prize will be pooled with the 13 million. The men's team took home from Qatar. So that 16.25 million will be split evenly. I, again, I got to be really careful here. But I am still a little annoyed. that there has been almost zero acknowledgement that the way that this whole fiasco, this equal pay fiasco,

the only way it was solved was by the men coming to the table and sharing their prize money with the women. And I would guess 99% of America does not know that. Yeah. And nobody has, nobody ever acknowledges it. I think Cindy Parlo-Cone kind of carefully acknowledged it in the initial announcement. but man, Megan Rapino's not acknowledging it. Alex Morgan's not acknowledging it. And I know there's like a huge, there's a history of sexism in sports and in soccer that informs this whole thing and that is like undergirds the whole situation.

But I feel a little protective of the boys here because when this all went down, West McKinney was 19 years old. You know, Christian Pulisic was 20 years old. Tyler Adams was, these were boys. they're the only men's national team in the world that has done this. And nobody ever acknowledges it. Right. Well, I definitely think that it's a shame that there hasn't been more celebration around it because it's an easy message to convey, at least in my point of view.

Right. Because it's a success. Both teams came together behind that one nation, one team mentality. and they're celebrating each other and they are in it together between the men's and the women's national team. It's not two different roads anymore. They are one and look at what they did to, you know, they put into action what so many people talk about.

They didn't just say, yeah, women deserve equal pay for equal work. Yeah. So many people can agree upon that. but so little people come to the table to actually make sure it happens. And they did. And I just think, I think it's something worth celebrating and being open about because it's a success for both teams. The women got their equal pay and the men are coming to the table and being one with their counterpart in the national team. And it's only a success. It's only beautiful. I'm with you, though. I wish more people would acknowledge it. Yeah. So, I mean, we, we have to give the, the respect to the women for

pressing the issue, right? Pressing the issue and, and without them, the men don't get that push to actually come to the table, right? Right. So, so, like, I don't want to just frame it as, like, hey, the guys did this good deed, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, it had to be put upon them by, by the women doing this and, and, you know, having the whole equal pay campaign. that they made a huge deal, which, which, you know, is coming back on them now because everyone, you know, when the game was over, everyone knows as far as, you know, the flag that the team is getting for being whatever, political symbols or whatever, whatever, that all stem from equal pay. Unfortunately, you know, bad. Some people, let me be clear. Some people, some people don't like Megan Rapino because she kneeled for the national anthem.

And that is a totally, for me, it's a totally separate thing. Like more power to her for that. But anyway, continue. Like I said, well, I want to make sure that we appreciate, you know, the women's efforts. But yes, the men's national team did the good thing. Did the good thing that they, I mean, without this, you know what I'm saying? There's no resolution. There's no resolution.

It cannot be resolved without this. It would have been lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit. And I kept thinking about it during, you know, most recently Canada's been in the press about their struggles with their Fed. And Christine Sinclair is doing great at that role of being, you know, the focal point in expressing how little support and how little support, I guess is the only word for it. the Fed is is giving to them. And it makes me think, like, we have this pathway of how to achieve it. Get Alfonso Davies on the phone. Make them come to the table because the men's team coming to the table is how we found success.

And you can't rewrite that. That's just how it happened. It's not an opinion. And for a Fed to take both national teams seriously and for both teams to see each other as equals is a solution. So and yeah, we and we've talked about this before, right, with the whole anthem, anthem thing, us three on this on this call right now. Like, we would love for the relationships, mainly among fans, you know, to not be as fractured as they are between the men's national team and the women's national team. It's almost like they're two totally

different entities. Yeah, you know, a lot of the time, like you see a lot of things on, on social media or whatever about how, you know, I root for the men to lose or I root for the women to lose, but I cheer on the other ones and blah, blah, blah. And it's just here we have both of them coming together to do this beautiful thing. You know, beautiful, right? Yeah. Like, and it's just, yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, it is frustrating, man.

It is frustrating to me as a person that just wants us all to get along. They wants us all to. because it's just I see a lot of stuff about, you know, people talk about the men's team as if they're the biggest bunch of losers that's ever like like it's a whole bunch of Alexi Lawless is out there. Yeah. You know what I'm saying or whatever. You know, I'm not giving you any opinion about Lexi Lawless. But what I'm saying is they have that same venom towards the men's national team that they have towards Alexi Lawless and it's just like, do you not see what they did? And like I said, all credit goes to the women for pressing this.

you in the first place, but I just, yeah. I wish that there was more out about it, though. Like the documentary about the women's national teams fight for equal pay, what's it called? LFG, I think it's on HBO. It's a great documentary. But there should have been a part too. They should have been acknowledging how it happened and what happened.

And, you know, let us in and let us know about it because I think that it could be, a pathway for a lot of other nations if we were only, you know, a tad bit more honest about how it happened, how we got equal pay. I'm not going to lie. Every time I hear somebody crow about it, we fought for equal pay and we got it. And they don't mention how it happened. It bugs me. It's going to bug me every time.

Because those same people will turn around and like say some BS about the men's national team when it's like, hey, hey. It's how it's quite, it's quite rare. to love both teams. I feel like I've tried for many years to find a community where that was accepted. Well, there's three of us. Nobody even acknowledges that the shit happened. It's like nobody has said anything to anybody.

Like, I don't know if you, if you don't want to give the whole team credit, like at least the documented champion of the whole thing was Walker Zimmerman, like at least give him some respect. You know what I'm saying? Right. He's the one who spearheaded it, I think, at least from the players' union side. Well, you know, justice is not always served. But I guess big picture justice has been served.

You know, the problem's been solved. Yeah, it's been certain. Oh, and, you know, Bell's when you ask Paul Kennedy about this, right? He didn't even want to touch it. Yeah. Well, he did say something that I took from it just as far as like, you know, that the men are like making the bet too. That, you know, if the women continue their same historical success and FIFA ends up even in the prize pool, And there's going to be a good bet for the men.

I don't know how long the CBA last. But, I mean, I don't think this is going to happen, like, within the length of time that the CBA exists. You know what I'm saying? Right. It's like, you could try. I'm not saying he's discounted. I'm not saying he's discounting what the men did. But I'm saying, like. Right.

I know what you're saying. It's a little bit more. He made a good point, too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely a good point. But it's a little bit more of a leap of faith than I think. But because FIFA ain't raising this damn prize money.

As far as we know, as far as we could tell, like, I don't think we're going to see a super large jump within the 2020s. You know what I'm saying? Well, yeah, but there have been jumps. You go ahead. You go ahead, Tara. So to me, the story about the prize money is just a little different to me in that, like, yes, our mission has been accomplished. We got equal pay. But if we want to lead the way on how to make sure that the women's national teams are supported,

because even in this World Cup, you can see so much of the, like, overarching theme from game to game is the players versus the Fed. And if we want to be supporting of women's athletes and women's soccer, I think that we have to be more honest about how we got there. a men's national team plays a large role in the success or in achieving some sort of equality. And that's the aspect that no one talks about. So when Canada is ready to burn down their fed, rightfully so, it should be acknowledged that the men's team get them involved, get them involved and see what happens. things have come out about Nigeria, about plenty of other countries, lack of funding for the women's team. Jamaica had to get a go-fund me to even get to the World Cup.

Like, funding in women's soccer is always going to be an issue. And that's what I wish we were more honest about, because for so much of women's soccer, the United States has led the way, be it in championships or player-grimps. quality or anything like that. Title IX. Yeah.

Yeah, the whole thing. So I think it opens up a bigger issue in supporting other countries and how to get there. And I think a men's national team is a solution that we saw work pretty well. That's a really good point. It's like if somebody was really like, hey, this is, we want other women from other women's national teams to also have equal pay in their countries, let's tell them how we did it and try to get it to work out. Because FIFA's not, like to Vince's point, FIFA may raise the prize money for women. They're not going to equalize the prize money between the men's and women's World Cup anytime soon.

That's just not market reality. That's not, it's just not going to happen. So it's got to happen. This is really the only way it can happen unless the federations, you know, strong arm the men into each federation individually. that strong of the men into sharing the prize money, it has to be done voluntarily. And my only other point, we can move on from this. I know I see you got something else to say, Vince, too. But the other thing is the men on our men's national team, they can't bring it up. You know?

Like, that's not realistic either. I'm just to try to imagine Christian Pulisic going into an interview and saying, yeah, I saw the thing about the prize money. I just wish we got more credit for it. this is like, you know, that's not going to happen. So, so, like, small podcasts like us are they, I mean, Meg Linnahan's not going to talk about it. That's very clear at this point. Yeah, like, just truly, like, I mean, you know, you talk about groundbreaking amongst soccer and soccer federer. I mean, this is like, groundbreaking within the world.

Mm-hmm. But then America, like, this doesn't happen. And, yeah, it's, it's all frustrating. But, like, on the Canada point, I'd like, like, the men have their own issues with the Fed, too. So I don't, like Canada just might be doomed. I don't know. But, yeah, I mean, it's something to be extremely proud of and we shouldn't be anything

other than proud, which is further a point to be, you know, open about how we got there. Yeah. Okay. Julie Ertz basically retired on camera. Yeah. She said, and I quote, probably, my last game ever able to have the honor of wearing the crest, which we all basically knew she just came back for the World Cup.

It's been documented 20 times. There was even an article leading up to the World Cup where it said Vladko called her and said, can you come back? And it wasn't this was the plan all along like we were led to believe. And yeah, I think it's. honorable. I think I think she came to do what she had to do and I bet that Angel City locker room is cleared out. I don't.

Julie did all right. She did all right. Yeah, yeah. Much respect to Julie. She did better than all right. I thought she was great. It's just is she going to be, you know, going city to city on a retirement tour instead of letting new players ever be able to wear the jersey, I doubt it. Yeah. Much respect to Julie. A legend, of course.

Wasn't used in the way that we thought. But yeah, I mean, can't have too many complaints about that centerback partnership. You know, looking ahead a little bit, let's talk about international soccer players, just because, you know, I'm a little sour on NWSL at the moment. that's fine. Corbin and PSG are back in September, so I'm going to be watching. There may be Giselle Thompson there as well. It's been rumored, but nothing concrete to talk about yet. But for sure, Corbyn in France. And then Lindsay Horan with Leon, they'll be back in September. Katerina Macario and Mi Official with Chelsea. They'll be back in October. Onika Gamero with Barcelona B, they'll be back in September.

They posted a great picture of her in training. And Chelsea also posted a picture of Katerina Macario in training. So love to see it. Yeah. I just want to say a member of Olympic Leon A, Lindsey Horan also underperformed at the World Cup. You know, who you know? The SNWSL agenda is getting a little nasty bills. That's all I want to say.

I don't know if I agree that she underperformed. She kind of did what we expected, right? Well, that's not good enough. Yeah. I expected Sophia in particular to tear it up. Did not happen. But, yeah, Mr. Vlatman, the Vladdy man. Hopefully we turn the page.

It's a bit. The whole NWSL thing, it's a bit. I'm not. The agenda is very, very loosely held. I was off that. It may be a loose agenda, but it's something you're seeing more and more is this like talking point from anybody familiar with men soccer. It's do more of our players need to go to Europe? Do our youngsters need to get out of the NWS?

The NWSL is not the MLS. That is something I hope we can all agree on. Our best player in this World Cup applies her trade where? Hush. San Diego Wave. True, true. I thought we were doing a Louisville, but. Oh, no, absolutely not.

That's another thing. That's another thing we should just, maybe we should close with this. Naomi Germa was fantastic throughout this tournament. A big part of the reason, I've said this already, but big part of the reason why we conceded only two shots on target, Alyssa and Air only had to make one save. It was a lot because of how good Naomi Germa was, just outstanding. And let's reload.

Let's reload. and build it around Naomi Germa and sort of build forward from there. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, that's just a rock in the back that's going to be there for, I mean. Three more World Cups?

Possibly. As long as she's good. She doesn't get to have. Right, right. It's good. Let's give her two. Let's give her two and then see how it goes for the third. We have a September camp with friendlies against.

South Africa. I want it to be known. I'm saying this more for me. I need to remind myself, I do not care about this roster. I'm giving September off. Oh, man. I have a camp in October, and that's when Matt Crocker and company need to get very, very serious. I'm trying to, you know, have realistic expectations. Look, I mean, if we're not serious, South Africa might my rip us won. That's what I'm saying. I mean, I mean, Timby, like Tim be, like Tim be. should be in the and like whatever tournament 11 that there's coming from this from this from this tournament hey i'm talking more about like uh bringing our roster more so than results and if we'll have like all these things well uh yes but hopefully man we just turn this damn page let's turn the page

let's turn the page fast we need we need corbin in i mean uh people we didn't mention uh jaden shaw in san Diego. I mean, she's the best attacker. Stats wise, San Diego has. And, you know,

they built their entire team around Alex Morgan. Got to mention Sab Demello, Jayla Howe. Yeah, I mean, just, I mean,

they are very relevant. It should be very relevant. Going forward. You know, who. We have a lot of talent left. Like, we haven't even began to look at.

and that's got to be something the new coach takes very seriously. Stones have been unturned. It's time to turn them. Yep. Turn everything, pages, stones, and let's go. All right. Thanks everybody for listening. You know, if you want to join us on Patreon, join us on the Discord.

The link is in the show notes. You get the Monday reviews and lots of other stuff. Thanks for listening. We'll see you.