Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #426: Josh Sargent joins the pod

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

Josh Sargent joins Sanjay Sujanthakumar at a cafe in Norwich, on crutches, to discuss his injury, his development as a striker, having a baby in the middle of a Premier League season, and much more.Please consider subscribing to Scuffed on Patreon. Patrons get a private feed for the Monday Review, which is, among other things, a run-down of club action for national team players every week with Watke and Vince. Patrons also get our full interviews (recently Dave Sarachan), access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffed Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuff podcast where we talk about U.S. soccer. Hey, everybody, this is Bells, introducing an interview from Sanjay Sujani Sujanta Kumar with Josh Sargent, the Norwich City, and U.S. men's and national team striker who's been off to a blazing start this season. He, of course, as you all know, suffered an injury on Sunday. This was recorded before he had final word on how serious the injury was. It turns out it is pretty serious. Multiple ligaments in his ankle damaged.

And David Wagner saying that he will be out for, quote, months. We don't know exactly how long that will be. But Josh was in crutches, and he met Sanjay at a cafe in Norwich City and talked about a lot of things that are interesting, even despite the injury. Hope you enjoy it. Here it is. Josh, thanks for coming on the pod. Thank you very much for having me.

I appreciate it. Everyone wants to know. How are you feeling? any update on the injury. I appreciate you coming on, given the circumstances, but can you give us an update on that? Yeah, just kind of a freak thing that happened in the game. Obviously, landed on my ankle wrong, but not too sure about the specifics yet. It's a bit swollen.

I have to wait for the swelling to go down before we can really assess it and figure out exactly what's going on. So has that type of thing ever happened to you where you scored a goal and then gotten hurt, and it's just like a weird mix of emotions? Well, the funny thing is everybody thinks it's when the keeper landed on me when I got hurt, but it was when I originally blocked the ball and just landed on it weird, but I think I had so much adrenaline going, and I saw the ball was going towards the goal that my instinct was to just go tap it in, and then when I landed again, I just, yeah, had no power to put any weight on it,

and that's why I just kind of collapsed after. And, yeah, it was hard to be, you know, happy about the goal, and obviously I could feel that it was going to be not a good injury. So people should take it a bit easier on the keeper because a lot of people are pretty good. Yeah, I even told him after because he was a bit worried saying like, oh, did I do it, whatever, but it wasn't his fault, I promise. So you're obviously off to a great start this season as the Norwich City number nine, three goals and an assist in four games and the team is unbeaten.

Obviously it's disappointing for that to be interrupted, but a lot was going well and a lot to look forward to you on the other side of this injury. Are you feeling about how you're playing and how the team is looking? Yeah, I think, you know, even throughout preseason, the team has been very strong. I think not only our football, but, you know, the togetherness of the team as well has been, you know, a big part of our identity. And, yeah, it's an overall feeling in the club that we have a very good chance of going up this season. So your first season has the nine here. Pookie was a club legend, a very intelligent and dangerous striker.

How did playing alongside him influence your development? Yeah, I mean, obviously he's a very, you know, experienced striker. There was a lot to, you know, talk to him about and learn from him. I think he wasn't, you know, the most vocal guy in coming up to me and trying to teach me things, but just watching him in training and in games, kind of seeing the movements that he makes, made a big impact on how I see the game. So how would you describe your relationship with him? Like was it obviously eventually you were eyeing that striker spot?

Was it like was it constructive or was it what was that like in training every day with him? Oh, it was good. He was a great guy, never caused any problems. So it was very easy to get along with him. So understanding you might not want to give the exact numbers here, but do you or the staff set targets for goal production in a season? And if things aren't going as well as you hope in terms of goals and assist, do you guys look at other numbers, you know,

do you look at analytics to provide confidence that you're doing the right things even if the goals aren't coming? Yeah, I think, you know, it's hard because obviously any striker is going to be judged by the goals he scores. But, you know, we've been speaking a lot. I have a mental guy that I speak with. I have the coaches on the team, obviously. And if I'm doing the right things to put myself in the scoring positions

and creating chances, I think good things will come after that. And so far, you know, obviously the team has been playing really good football. We've been creating a lot of chances. And, yeah, I've been able to score a few already this season. So, you know, hopefully when I get back, I can continue doing that. Did you have the – when did – you mentioned the mental guy. When did that start? Did you have that at Bremen as well?

And how did that start? And talking through what you thought about that process? Yeah, so just being young, going to Germany and all my own isn't the easiest thing to do. I found myself on social media too much, caring a lot about what other people were saying, thinking, and just really wasn't myself. I would say it wasn't very focused on the game, more about what people were thinking about me. and I thought that was a big area where I needed improvement and so far it's been, you know, huge for me, I'd say.

And yeah, we kind of just came up with this model where instead of being so goal-oriented on just, oh, I need to score, I need to score, you know, what are little things I can do throughout the game to get me to score the goals, if that makes sense. So just whether it's make X amount of runs in behind the back line or take at least three shots, you know, or try to take a guy on two times, whatever it is, you know. Those are just random examples, but just, yeah, setting little goals to eventually get to that big goal of scoring.

Are you aware of expected goals throughout the season, and how do you feel about expected goals and that analytics fees in general? To be honest, I don't look at it too much, you know. Try not to focus too much on statistics and whatnot. They can be good. Don't get me wrong, but they can also be misleading at times. Did you intentionally add bulk to improve aspects of your game? You've added mass and you seem to become a more physical player.

Was that intentional or was that just naturally how you think things developed in terms of your body and nutrition? No, I definitely noticed coming to England, you know, it's a more physical league. And, you know, starting in the prem right away, the guys are some of the most, I don't know, athletic, strongest guys you'll come again. So I definitely saw it as an area that I could improve in. I remember I got, you know, a small injury at one point. I think it was an ankle injury, actually. And, yeah, I texted the Bethag trainer right away, and I was like, all right, let's use this time to try to add some weight on

and try to, you know, get more improvement in that area. And, yeah, I think it's helped my game. Talk us to, like, what change with your diet and then eventually with the lifting? Yeah, I mean, right when I got here, we had a nutritionist right away, which was a bit different from Germany. So that helped me, you know, learn a lot. And I think each year, you know, you kind of learn more and more about your own body, you know, what works for you, what doesn't. And, yeah, I feel like I'm at a good place right now where I have a good feeling what works for me and what doesn't. You excelled as a striker at the youth national team level.

Then in your time as a pro, you didn't always play center forward. How was your time as a winger, like a wider forward, helped you think differently about the striker goal and helped with your game as a striker? To be honest, I don't know if it's helped me in the striker role. I think it's definitely, you know, made me learn a new position, which can always be beneficial. But, you know, it was never my goal to play.

play winger. I wasn't always the happiest playing on the wing, to be honest. It was kind of just one of those where I was a young guy. I had the opportunity to play winger a little bit in Bremen. We were fighting relegation and it's what the team was asking for. I come here to England and, you know, we have a striker like Timo where I know I'm not going to start right in front of them. I was asked to play on the wing in the prem, which isn't the easiest thing to do when you're defending a lot of the time as well. And, yeah, I think everybody could see it wasn't my most natural and most comfortable position to be in.

So, you know, as much as, you know, I liked playing and getting the experience, which I'll never regret, you know, it was a bit, you know, frustrating as well at the same time because I know I'm most beneficial, you know, at the striker for myself and for the team. What's that conversation like with the manager and or the club when you're a young player? and you feel like you're not playing the position you're meant to be like how do you does it did it depend on the situation how do you express yourself in that situation yeah i don't know if there's much you can say to be honest you know as a young guy you can't go into the office and be like i want to play in front of timu like it's not how it works you're a young guy he's an

experienced striker scoring goals and you just kind of in my opinion you just put your head down and you work hard you know whatever you're asked to do but with with norwich was do you think things have gone more or less according to plan in terms of the timeline for you to get to the nine spot like did you understand this was what you were you were signing up for um well i'll say one thing you know david wagner coming into the club he's expressed right away that he believes i'm a striker and i won't be playing on the wing anymore and so obviously when a manager comes in says that it's kind of like a weight off your shoulders like finally i'm going to be able to you know get that experience in a position that i want to be playing for the rest of my career so that was

uh yeah that was a very refreshing thing to hear when he came into the club is there anything you feel you need to work on to differentiate yourself from the other american strikers there's a pretty fierce competition at that spot now and it seems like for the foreseeable future yeah there's obviously you know a lot of a lot of strikers that are doing really well at the moment um i'm still very young still have a lot of things I need to improve in, obviously, and I think, you know, I know the qualities that I have, and it's just getting game time, getting, you know, more and more experience and just sharpening up those skills.

If there's one or two things you can pinpoint that you're trying to improve on this season, what would it be? I was very happy with, you know, scoring 13 goals last season, but I want to become even more clinical. I want to score more goals. and I think another thing that I've already improved on at the start of this season is being more of a progressive number nine. So when I'm dropping into that space, you know, turning and playing balls in behind and setting up other guys, not just myself for chances. And I think, yeah, since I've started to focus on that, I've gotten better and better at it.

What was it like having a baby in the middle of the 2021-22 season, huge life event? and obviously for you and your wife. How did you manage juggling being a new father with the tough prime campaign? Yeah, I know it sounds weird because I'm very young, but I've always been a very family-oriented guy, and I've been with my now-wife since we were 14 years old, you know, and it's always been a goal of mine to have a kid young.

And so for me, it was just something. thing I was always looking forward to. And yeah, 100% the most amazing thing that's happened to me. Were you able to get enough sleep? Luckily, she was a very good sleeper from the beginning. People were amazed, you know, when we're telling them, she was sleeping 11, 12 hours through the night right away. So I was like, well, you can have as many kids as we want if it's like this the whole time. But, yeah, we got really lucky. So she's about one and a half now, right?

Is she getting a lot of touches on the ball in your living room? How's her development coming along? She's just started kicking a ball around a little bit. My wife says she enjoys watching the games and cheering on her dad. And, yeah, we probably two weeks ago ordered her a ball in a little net for the living room. And she's been shooting a little bit in that, so she has fun with it. Did your wife play as well? Yeah, so she played.

throughout high school and was going to play, I think, D2 in college, but that's when she decided to move over to Germany with myself. So the jeans are there. The jeans are there. Wow. Okay. So tell me about how you balance parenting and playing professionally in terms of, like, how has that been received by the club, the manager, others during your career. Was that an adjustment? I think the club has been very understanding. that family comes first.

You know, luckily we haven't had any serious problems where I've had to put, you know, the baby first before the team. But, yeah, it's been amazing so far. Everything has gone very smoothly. And I think the biggest thing is having a baby like that just kind of puts a perspective on things and makes you, you know, not so stressed about things, you know, football in particular that you would have been

before having the baby. it seems striker more than any other spot over the last couple years has been the most fluid for you from not being in camp to starting games or from starting games to no call up for a year that in addition to the nature of the position seems to put added pressure on a striker to be at their best every single week could you tell us about that type of week to week pressure to perform in the run-up to the world cup like basically every week while you were battling you really five to six other guys for two to three spots on one roster. What was, take us back to that, that window, and what was that like?

Yeah, tough, tough, obviously. You know, I think for any player, that's your dream of playing in a World Cup. And, yeah, it was a weird road for myself, you know, not going to camp for a year or so before. And I think going to the last camp before the World Cup. And that that camp came in at half, second half against Japan, and didn't even play. the next game. So, really didn't know

what to think about that. Didn't know if I did well or did bad, wasn't really told. And, yeah, I guess I was just talking to myself saying, you know,

if I do the right things here at Norwich, you know, if I do all the things that I can, then I should get called up. And, you know, I was playing on the week

in the first couple of games, didn't do well, didn't even start, I think, the third or fourth game, which, obviously wasn't the ideal start for myself. And then Timu got injured and was able to play striker.

And, yeah, I think made the most of my opportunity, was able to score goals, and had really good momentum going into the World Cup. How much communication was there with the national team staff in that period, like between that last camp in the fall and then up until, you know, the roster was released? I'd say just about none. Yeah, I mean, I think. It was obviously a very stressful time for them as well. You know, they had very big decisions to make.

And, yeah, I think they were just hard at work, trying to figure out what they were going to do. So you make the roster. Tell us about the World Cup experience, the expectations versus the reality of how it went for yourself, as well as a team. You played quite well against Iran, but then got hurt and can go against the Netherlands.

Walk us through all that, if you would, on the field and off the field, cutter. Yeah, off the field. everything was amazing. It was a perfect setup for us at the hotel. All the guys, you know, mesh really well. And it was a very good time. Obviously, you know, like I said, it's what any player dreams of.

But at the same time, we know we had a job to do. And I think everybody did a really good job. I think the team played really well and gave people, you know, a lot to look forward to. And yeah, I was obviously very unlucky to have a ankle injury at the end of that game because obviously I wish, you know, I could have gone on and played against Netherlands, but, you know, those type of things happen. You gave it a go in training, right, before the Netherlands game?

Like, how far off do you think you were from being able to play in that game? I'm not really sure. I think, you know, maybe another couple weeks, to be honest, I wasn't ready for it. Even when I got back to England, I played Swansea on the weekend and was feeling it all throughout that game. And for another couple months, honestly, it was still annoying me. So probably rushed back a bit too soon.

Is that the same injury as you're dealing with now? Is that the same? Yeah, so, yeah, I dealt with my left ankle a little bit before. And, yeah, this right one is the same one from the World Cup. So definitely something off to start, you know, looking into and taking a lot more care of. Can you tell us about the specific instructions you were given by Greg at the World Cup? What were the in general? And then how do they differ from games to game?

What were you focused on doing for the team? Yeah, overall we have or had an identity of how we wanted to play. We wanted to be a very energetic team, offensively and defensively. So defensively I needed to have a high work rate, you know, be able to press and take care of that side of the game. But offensively be able to drop down into the pockets and get on the ball and hold the ball up for the team. And, you know, I was able to do that for the first goal. We scored against Wales. And then against Iran, I thought I did a really good job of my hold-up play.

I unfortunately wasn't able to get, you know, many opportunities, but, you know, played the role that I was asked to play. Were you confident the whole time against the Ron that the goal was going to come? The goals were going to come in that game? For myself, you mean, or for the team? Just in general, because obviously the way the game was going to go was clear early on, and you obviously did your part to set the team up. Were you guys confident, like, we're going to get the goal, and we're going to be fine? I mean, you never know in World Cup, right?

I mean, crazy things happened, but I think, yeah, there was an overall. overall feeling, you know, we were playing good football. We're all, you know, on top of our game. Obviously, Christian got that goal at the beginning. Unfortunately, got injured, but that put us in a really good place where, you know, kind of took that pressure off to score the goal, and then after that could just relax and play our football. What do you remember about the atmosphere from that game? It seemed pretty nuts. Yeah, it was crazy. I remember going out for a warm-up, actually, and just all the The horns they were blowing and all, you know, the whistling, screaming, whatever it was, it was so loud.

But for some reason, you know, I felt really calm in that moment just because I think I was, you know, very excited at the same time. What are your goals for the rest of this cycle for both club and country? And where do you want to be heading into that 2026 World Cup? I mean, I want to get back from this injury as soon as possible now and continue to do what I did at the start of the season. I want to really you know establish myself as as one of the nines in this cycle

I want to keep scoring goals I want to keep you know providing for my team hopefully by the end of the season I can say that you know I helped get the team promoted to the prime again and yeah I just want to be you know I think for anybody

any of us we want to make it to where it's not a question whether we're going into camp or not. Is there, did you support a specific club growing up? Is there a dream club you want to be the nine-four down the line? Not really, to be honest, when I was younger to watch football board me. To be honest, I remember, yeah, I just wasn't that into it.

I played a lot of sports growing up, and, yeah, I didn't really have a specific team. Tell us about the other sports you played, and which ones did you enjoy watching? Who were your teams? I mean, in St. Louis, we had the Cardinals for baseball and the blues and hockey. I played both of those sports. I loved basketball. Didn't watch too much of it, but that was probably my second favorite sport playing growing up. And, yeah, probably just going to blues games, the Rams we had when I was younger in NFL,

but they obviously moved out to, yeah, obviously moved out to L.A. now. But, yeah, just my hometown teams I liked watching a lot. When did you stop playing those other sports and focus on football? So, yeah, kind of, when I was young, young, maybe like 8 to 11, 12, that's when I really started playing all kinds of sports at the same time, basketball, baseball, hockey, and my dad kept telling me, you're going to have to start narrowing it down, like, what you want to play. Like, okay, okay, so each year I kind of, you know, cut one off.

and eventually I think yeah freshman year of high school I played basketball and was obviously playing soccer as well and yeah he was like all right this is it like what are you going to decide and I just saw myself going a lot further in soccer than basketball

so yeah so if it wasn't soccer you think you could have gone the furthest in basketball how do you other sports didn't say that I enjoyed it the most I don't know I don't know if I could go that far not that tall But, yeah, I don't know.

I like to think I'm a very athletic guy, and I'm really not sure what sport I would have played, but I always saw myself being a professional athlete, you know, growing up. So speaking of other sports, golf seems like a big deal with the team. Where do you rank yourself in terms of golf? Up there, up there with the top guys. I haven't been in a while, actually, but just thinking of all the guys that played, I'd like to think I'm top five. Hopefully the other guys would agree with that, but yeah, I know a lot more guys are taking it more seriously now.

So I think it's clearly established that Walker and Christian are at the top. Scali also said he's top five. If Scali's top five, then I'm 100% in the top five. He likes to think he's a lot better than he is, though. you can tell them that. Wow, shots fired. Okay. So who do you hang out with during your downtime in national team camps?

I would say probably Gio and Joe the most. And has your daughter, she's in camp with you now regularly, your wife and your daughter? What's that like? I know some of the other guys bring their families into camp. Well, haven't even been into camp since they're welcome up, obviously, with my. injuries and whatnot so trying to get back there first and then we'll see yeah it's obviously you know a good option for them to come with me now so yeah we'll have to see next time that comes up yeah i guess it wasn't that many before uh while she's been born right the national team so

uh oh this is a throwback so you once argued with cam tyler and eric palmer brown about whether you were fast. Is this an ongoing argument? Like, what's the verdict? It hasn't been. We've brought it up once or twice since then, I think. It'd be a good race. I'd love to find out now.

I'm not sure. Really, it's been a while. We think you're pretty fast, for the record. Your accelerations, yeah. I think that's underrated. What would you say is your hometown? Is it St. Louis? Because you're from O. Fallon, right?

So what would you consider your hometown versus what you tell people? Yeah, my hometown is O'Fallon, but I tell everybody's St. Louis because that's, you know, the biggest city there. If I say O'Fallon, they won't know where the hell that is. What's O'Fallon? Like it's just like a chill suburb? Yeah, just quiet suburb. Not a lot going on, to be honest. The most fun thing you can do is go to the mall and meet up with some friends.

So not the most exciting place, but, you know, it's home. What's the best place for Ribs in St. Louis or in your area? What's the name? I'm going to have to look it up. It's downtown. I can imagine the place in my head, but I can't remember the name, so I have to get back to you on that one. Yeah, Tim will definitely be able to help out.

I feel like he'd have that knowledge in him. So St. Louis has been an amazing story in MLS this year. You're still a young striker finding your way in Europe, but could you see yourself down the road playing for your new hometown club? Have you thought about that, or do you get asked about that when you visit? I do get asked about that. Even my friends already are texting me from college whatnot, and, oh, are you going to play? Are you going to come play for us? Like, not yet.

But, yeah, 100% something I'd love to do down the line. What else do you do off the field when you're not busy being a father? anything the fans might not know about you and your interests that you like to share. What else do you have time for between football and being a father? Don't have a lot of time, to be honest, but when I do have time, I honestly try to go golf. So it's not anything new. I'm sure all the other guys have the same answers. But yeah, I think it's just a nice thing for me to do.

It's competitive, but it gets my mind off things. You're, you know, in nature. And, yeah, it's just a lot of fun for me. Josh, thanks so much for coming on the pod today. Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.