Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #427: Hugo Perez joins the pod

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

Greg and Belz interview the living legend about the ongoing and upcoming challenges for the El Salvador men's national team, his early days of playing semi-pro soccer as a teenager in southern California, that 1994 World Cup Round of 16 match against Brazil, playing for Al-Ittihad in Saudi Arabia in the early 1990s, and much more. Patrons (link in the shownotes) can hear him speak for nearly another hour about this current crop of USMNT players, how to get more out of them than we've gotten, why he left USSF, sneaking into the Cuscatlan as a kid and whether he'd take a job with US Soccer in the future. It's a lengthy, fascinating, generous discussion.Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon! You get exclusive episodes on average twice a week, plus access to the Discord and live call-in shows, by signing up here for as little as $2 a month: https://www.patreon.com/scuffed Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the SCuff podcast, where we talk about U.S. soccer. Our guest today is the head coach of the El Salvador men's national team. He's a former U.S. international who played at the 1994 World Cup and a former U.S. youth national team coach who helped develop players such as Christian Pulisic, Tyler Adams, Weston McKenney. He played professionally in Southern California, France, Sweden, and Saudi Arabia, among other places. He has for years been a mainstay of the state.

the northern California soccer scene. Hugo Perez, thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me. Great talking to you guys right now. Let me start not with a question, but by reading something submitted by a listener of ours. His name is Jorge. He's in the Bay Area.

He said, I was a little kid when my dad, a native of San Salvador, took me to the round of 16 game versus Brazil on July 4th, 1994. I hardly remember the game, but I remember it was 100 degrees at Stanford Stadium. and my dad pointed to number seven and told me in Spanish.

That guy is Hugo Perez, also from El Salvador, came over here as a kid and now plays for the U.S. I remember the goal from Bebeto that won the game, but more than anything, that moment seeing a Salvadorian-American playing for the USA, I was hooked from that moment to this day. I just thought I should read you that. That's great. And I want to ask you, what do you remember about that game?

I think it was the most important game in the history for me personally of football in the United States. The reason was because in the previous World Cups that we had intervened, what had qualified, I don't remember basically the 1950s. that was the last time before we came in in 1990, that we had gone to the second round. And it was important because it was the 4th of July and also because we put ourselves in the map internationally. You know that that game I remember also because when we qualified for that second round

and we found out that it was Brazil, all the press all over the world were saying that they were going to beat us 6-0-7-0 and we managed to get the group together, spoke about it before the game and said there's no way these guys are going to beat us that way. They're going to have to work hard to beat us. And I thought we had a chance to win that game, to be honest with you. Although we ended up losing 1-0, but I think it marks. a good step towards what the national team was going to become and what it is now.

I mean, we almost scored in the 12th minute. Do you remember that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember every play, because obviously I have the videos and everything from that game. I thought we handled Brazil pretty well, although they got a red car and Tabramos got injured. I think, and the funny thing is that we had played Brazil two or three times before the World Cup. We had lost one zero in the Coliseum.

I think we lost 3-1 in Brazil, but that was a weird game because when we got out of the stadium, people were chanting USA in Brazil. So it gave us a good measure, and we knew basically how Brazil was. us, even though with their great players. And I thought we did well. I thought we stood, you know, face to face with him, with them. And unfortunately, Vetto scores in the second half, and we couldn't match it. But I think it was, again, the start of something that put us in the map internationally.

Coach, a lot of our listeners love to get into the, the really like the deepest, nerdiest parts of this game. So I'm just curious, you know, World Cup round of 16 match against Brazil, who went on to win the tournament.

You're talking about, you're going to, you all talked about making it hard. Do you remember, like, what were the specifics of how you, of how you were going to organize

and make this tough for Brazil? Well, one was, we were not going to be afraid. I think when you play, um, teams like that who won World Cups, and for us it was basically at that stage,

it was important because we got a lot of, you know, the three years before, if you guys remember, we didn't have any league in the United States. And what the Federation did was they invested in bringing us to Mission Viejo in California and building us a place there to live to soccer fields for us to be training. And then I think the most important thing, and this is something that I'm sure some people know

or some people don't know yet, we were there. Some of us were there most of the time, those three years. I left for Saudi Arabia in 91. But we were living there, and then we were traveling all over the world to play either the best teams in the world or the best national teams.

So after three years, when the World Cup started, we were already to tell you the truth. We had lost the fear, the doubt that we could compete with great teams or great national teams. So when we came to the World Cup, because I think we play about 50 games, 52 games, internationally in tournaments, in friendly games. at home in a way, Asia, Europe, South America. And when we came to the World Cup, we were ready. And for that game, I remember, and this is a story I tell. We knew Brazil was going to be the one who were going to play on the Fourth of July. But I remember there was an article.

I remember what newspaper printed that, and it said, and he gave the salaries and how much the Brazilian national team cost, okay? As a group, you're talking at that time, I remember it was more than $100 million. Okay. We were, if I don't remember, less than $5 million. Okay. So you compare that, obviously. And then obviously they were saying, no, you're not going to make it.

They're going to beat you up. They're going to blow you away. And I had a, we had a meeting the day before and I said, look, you know, it's the 4th of July. We're playing at home. Don't look at what those shirt says. You know, if it says Brazil, don't look at it. We're going to go out. We're going to make it difficult.

We're going to fight for each other. And we're going to stay together. And also at the same time, when we have the ball, let's play. Let's not be afraid. You know, let's not doubt. Let's not just kick the ball. Let's keep it and try to play. And that's what we did.

And I remember coming out at first half, I heard people saying, what is going on? You know, we were zero zero at that time, first half. What is going on with Brazil? What is going on? Why is Brazil not beating the U.S. at that time? So I had to do a lot with the character, had to do a lot with the conference we had, and then playing as a team. and the motivation of playing in front of your people in the United States,

the 4th of July, is something that's going to be there forever, especially for that group that played that game. One thing that strikes me about watching that game and really kind of all soccer from that era is how physical it was. I mean, there was the red card for Leonardo. But I mean, even outside of that, I mean, there were a lot of,

crunch and tackles all over the field in that game, on both sides? Yeah, I mean, look, Brazil had a, I'll be honest with you, Brazil had a very good team up top, right? In the middle, basically Brazil was very physical. Okay, we had Dunga there, which Dunga was one of the most physical players. Right. In that era, they were, obviously, all of them were pretty good. I remember the outside backs were pretty good. But we knew also that what we had to do was make sure that we, if we had to go physical, we would, but that wasn't the plan. The plan was to stay together, try to get the

ball and not lose it quickly and try to play. And I think it worked a lot for us. Unfortunately, you know, the second half, even though with one men down, I still felt that Maybe Boda our coach should have gone more offensively to try and win the game. But overall, yeah, it was a physical game. But again, you know, when you play these teams that are ranked higher than you are, the key is don't be afraid, don't doubt yourself that you can play. And then when you have the ball, then do your stuff. And I think we also remember we also had guys who were at that time playing in Europe already.

You know, you had a tap, Parks, Ernie Stewart, and some of the other guys who had come from Europe to be part of the team. So, and again, I still feel that the importance of playing those 52 international games within the span of two and a half years, three years, helped us a lot. Do you stay in touch with anybody from that team? Marcelo, Alexi, Tab. Marcelo, Alexey, Tab. Obviously, what's his name, passed away? Fernando, Blavijo, Winalda a little bit.

Yeah, we still, you know, once in a while we talk. Greg, want to jump in real quick? I was just going to say, so, you know, with all of the K-A-R-W-W-W-T-W-W-T. that kind of surrounded U.S. soccer in 2018, when the U.S. failed to make the World Cup, I was curious if those sort of connections with your teammates, like, did they kind of light up? Like, do you all kind of reach out to each other at a milestone moment like that when the U.S. crashed out in 2017? Do you kind of, like, chat each other up and say, what just happened to our program that we've invested so much time in?

Look, I think that we spoke a little bit with some of the guys. We didn't make it public. I didn't. You know, I really, I'm very careful about criticizing people with the program. We were, I don't know if I was surprised that we didn't make the world come. I'll be honest with you. I think we had struggle and we had some changes. during that period.

But overall, I always say this. Every time you qualify for World Cups, okay, we have qualified since 1990, up to that point. You're talking about more than four, five World Cups straight. But I still feel that the Java of a federation is to make sure that after you qualify for every World Cup, you analyze what you did right, you analyze what you did wrong.

And then you take a step and say, okay, we need to do this for the next four years in order for us to get better. And I think, I don't know if the U.S. did it intentionally or not, but I think we kind of forgot about that. And when it came to the point where we didn't qualify, we were asking, and it always happens. you start blaming one thing, you start blaming the other. You got to go back to the roots. Why did you get to that point?

And then why did you not qualify? And I think that's what happened to the U.S. It was a weird thing. I remember was it Bruce Arena who got the team with a couple games left. and then you had a group that had qualify in the previous two or three World Cups. So it was a weird situation, but at the end, I still felt that the U.S. was overconfidence that just putting these guys where experience was going to take it.

And sometimes it doesn't work like that. You have to analyze after each World Cup to see where you can get done. better and not to be overconfidence that you can qualify just because you qualify the last time. And I think that was one of the biggest problems that I saw when I looked at the team and when I looked how they play. But obviously, it had to come and it was a big disappointed. But at the same time, when those things happen, it wakes you up to make sure that you're on top of every time. you're going to go to a World Cup qualifier

or you qualify for a World Cup and then afterwards you start thinking about, okay, we need to get better because right now, I mean, the way football is going right now in the whole world, you know, it's funny, but you hear, well, you know, we didn't

qualify, we didn't win this game because of this and because of that. And sometimes we don't give credit to the other countries who are growing, okay? And I'll give you the example. We play the U.S. We play the U.S. four times. Okay.

We lost at home here in the U.S. to them 1-0 and 1-0. Okay. For us, it's a big result. Because I remember before I took the team, El Salvador came to playing Fort Lauderdale, a friendly match, and they lost 6-0. Okay. And then at home, we tied two games.

And the last game we played in the Nation's League, they score in the last two minutes. Okay. Now, if you compare their roster to our roster, there's no comparison. Okay. You're talking about guys playing in Champions League. At that time, Chelsea, Borussia Dortmund. And you're talking about English clubs,

our players playing there. So there's no comparison. The only thing is that, again, nowadays, the way football is, it's open now. There's no, you know, in the time that we played, there was not too much open in the sense of how you scout players, how you scout teams. Now it's open. And also other countries are getting better, little by little. So it's not only that the other team that is strong is not good. No, I think that we have to realize that smaller countries all over the world are getting better and better.

Coach, when you talk about scouting, you know, because you probably, do you feel like you go into a lot of these regional, like, World Cup qualifiers as a bit of an underdog or at least in quite a few of your matches? How do you feel like scouting has allowed you to try to sort of close the gap? Look, I mean, our country basically has suffered for the last 40 years. We haven't qualified for a World Cup. And at the same time, our league is not very competitive. We have few players playing in Division I. Then we had, you know, years ago, we had issues about some players that were punished for life for selling games. So all those things have affected us over the years. So when I came in, what I wanted to do was try and see if we could first get a group of players that could compete.

And second, to organize ourselves from the bottom to start building up. And a lot of that had to do with the scouting process. Although we don't not, I'll be honest. So I think our country is, during the 70s and 80s, we had the best national team programs in the whole Central America. Then all these problems that I just spoke to you, and then the Civil War that was there for a lot of years, destroyed everything. Now we're almost dead to last, as far as infrastructure it is, with the other.

countries. We need to catch up. But what has helped us since we came and took the program was the people who are working with us, our assistant coaches, our physical trainer coaches, and then the scouting process in the United States and also players playing outside our country. We have put all those things together and we have tried to see. We have tried to see how we could improve making sure that not only what we're doing and how we need to do it, but also realizing who the other nations are that are ahead of us in order for us to compete. And I think it has helped us because we came in and when I came in, the president told me,

look, we haven't qualified for an octagonal or hexagonal for 12 years. Okay. And he said, I need you to get the team and see if we can qualify. All right. We came in. We took the team in I think it was in April. We started qualify in June. All right.

And we managed to put a good group. We didn't have a lot of time. But again, the people who were helping us and some of the players that we picked, at the end, we got into the group stage, the final group stage. And then at that group stage, we realized where our level was.

We finished seventh out of the eighth. Okay? Then after that, they told us, look, you need to qualify for the Nation's League. And then from there, you need to qualify straight to the next goal cup. And we've done that so far. The problem that we have right now is the infrastructure, also the, we don't have a lot of sponsorship right now.

And that takes away a lot of the things that you want to do. But I think... Is that something you have to work on, like the sponsorship and stuff? I don't have to. I mean, a national team coach doesn't have to do that. But I do it because obviously we don't have at this moment, although the new people that came into the Federation now are starting to do it. Well, we had to go out from our country

and start talking to people about helping us, okay? Because again, I'm telling you, our reputation when I came in was not very good. Nobody wanted to invest in El Salvador because of all the things that had happened before. So little by little, we've been talking to people about helping us, giving sponsorships, so many things that people don't understand.

It's not just when you get in the field to compete. It's what you have outside to be able to compete, give everything to the players. At the end, the players are the most important. So you need to treat them professionally and give them the tools that they need to prepare well to be able to compete. You mentioned some things that you've qualified for already. You have two big tournaments that you can qualify for, obviously, in the next couple of years. You got games next week, right? Next week against Guatemala and Trinidad for Nations League

with ultimately an opportunity to play for a spot in the Copa America next summer. And then, of course, World Cup qualification begins in June for you, if I'm not mistaken. That's going to be a long process. What's your outlook? What's your outlook? How confident are you feeling about qualifying for each of those tournaments? I think within the inside of our group, we feel confidence that if we work the way we have been working before and getting better at certain things outside of the things that sometimes we can't control, I think we're going to fight. We're going to be able to fight for a spot for the World Cup.

I mean, it's a year from now, as you said, the Nations League. that we're starting next week, we play Guatemala in Guatemala, Trinidad, in El Salvador. It is important for us to try to win a spot to go to Copa America. But the ultimate goal for me, for our staff, is we need to be prepared when June comes. That's the most important thing that we are focusing in, in the sense of preparing our national team. because we need to get by June, we need to have certain things working in the Federation with the national team, with the players, to make sure that when we get into the first game of qualifiers, we're 100% ready.

This for us, the Nations League thing, is going to be, again, important games because we're going to see some of those Central American teams or Caribbean teams fighting for a spot for the World Cup. you know, the U.S., Canada, and Mexico, not in it right now. So we know that there's 11 nations right now that we feel, including us, that we're going to have to make sure we know what we need to do to compete against them. Right? Because amongst those, you're going to have the three spots directly, and then I think it's one or two, what do you call those spots?

The intercontinental platform. that you're going to have to. We don't want to get to that stage, to be honest with you, because you don't know who you're going to play. It could be a South American team. It could be an Australian team, an Oceania team. I don't know. We want to make sure we're fighting for one spot in Central America.

So hopefully, again, things will fall in place. We will be ready. The problem that also I see sometimes inside our country is that they're used to try to qualify for a World Cup every single. six months, okay, before World Cup comes. And I told you, we haven't qualified since 1982. That tells you what I was talking to you before when you asked me about the U.S. Our country has not sat down and said, how come we haven't qualified for the last 40 years? There's got to be something wrong, okay? But they don't have that vision. The people that run

football in our country, though, they can't extend their vision beyond that. They just worry about their league locally and nothing else. And then they want to make sure we qualify. And it doesn't work like that. Not on football right now. You know, you have, I remember I was getting my license in Germany and we asked the German Football Federation about their structure at how they plan things. And they say, look, we plan things, you know, 12 years apart.

we want to do this in 12 years and get to this point. In our country, we want to build something in six months and get to a workup. That's crazy. It's not going to. It doesn't happen. So we're trying to do change that. I'm having a lot of opposition in our country, you know, because we're trying to do something different. They're not used to it.

And they don't want to embrace it because it doesn't favor them. and we're trying to do also, you know, a plan ahead of what we need to do and they don't do that. So it's been a battle. But hopefully we'll come through. Do you allow yourself to dream about, you know, El Salvador qualifying for the 2026 workup?

Like, what would that mean for the country? It can help our structure and football to grow. Okay. the worst thing that we have in our country right now, our league is not very good. They're not, they say they're professionals, but they're not. And the problem is because, one, nobody watches our league. So that means a lot of our players are good,

but nobody's watching them in the league. The only window they have to be watched is when they come with the national team and compete. Right. Second, all the clubs that are there, which is 12 clubs, they don't have any infrastructure. They don't have their own facilities. They don't have their own stadiums. There's a big struggle for that. So, you know, sometimes players get paid two months late. So there's no infrastructure economically is not a stable league. So all those things, you know, are part of why we're struggling so much for the last 40 years.

But I've always been somebody who's had the opportunity to overcome a lot of obstacles. You know, when I came to this country, you know, I struggle in the sense of not having the things that we wanted to have. And then throughout my career, I've been kind of somebody who tries not to give up, even though circumstances are not the right ones. So now when I went back there, my dream, my vision, especially as a head coach, is I want to leave and leave a legacy.

And if it's going to the World Cup with all these obstacles that we have, it's greater. But the most, how can I say, in my vision, I see we have six and a half million people in El Salvador. And as a country, we struggle for so many years and so many things that going to, a workout will give them so much happiness to the normal people, to the people who come out at 4 o'clock in the morning and they have to work until 8 o'clock, not knowing how much money they're going to bring to the table, you know, those are the ones that deserve for us to qualify and give them that, at least for that short time, the happiness to be proud of our country. So I vision myself coming back from our last game

and having five million people waiting at the airport and going through the whole process of making them happy. So that's what's keep me going, to be honest with you. It's not the money. I don't, my contract is not big. It's just also the, how can I, I say, that desire to overcome a lot of obstacles. And to prove that even though we don't have what other countries have,

we can still try and fight to make it. Coach, looking ahead to the, you know, you're talking 10 months from now when you start World Cup qualifying, what are some of the big question marks you feel like, I mean, you talk about the obstacles that the Federation in the country has. On the field with your squad, what are some of the big question marks you feel like? you need to answer before that June deadline?

One of the things that we've always expressed over there is we need more of our players to be playing outside the country. That's one thing that now internationally is important. Why? Because players are better treated, better preparing their clubs. And when they come and play internationally, they come very, very, very, very. professionally prepared to compete internationally. And we have players right now,

I think we only have two players playing in the MLS, which is Roldan and Sabaleta. Okay. Then we have some young guys playing MLS next. Then we have players playing the USL championship. Okay. You got a couple guys in Colombia too, right? We have two in Colombia.

and we have three in Costa Rica. So we want to make sure that in this year coming up, we get more players out. That's the first thing. Second, we need to make sure that infrastructure, we have all the tools that we need for the preparation. Third, we need sponsors because what we want to do is, you know, we have a big community here in America.

especially in New York, in Texas, and California. So they bring us here to play exhibition games. But what I want to do is not come too much here. We want to go out. We want to go to South America and Europe. I mean, we went to Asia before the Gold Cup. And those are the games that we need to play for our players to grow internationally.

Because that's the thing that prepares you when you're trying to qualify for a World Cup. the more international games you have for your team, the better they're going to be when they compete. And, you know, we need more of those games. So in the plan, we need to have that. Okay. And last, again,

we need to make sure that people understand in our country that the main goal is to qualify for the World Cup. Why do I say that? Because we cannot lose the vision. In our countries, let's win at all cost, okay? And it doesn't happen too often if you don't have a base where you can start building up to make sure that when you win, you don't win by accident. Okay.

There was a saying in our country, if we beat Mexico, it's okay, if we don't go to the World Cup. Okay? That's been a model for years. I don't think it's gotten us anywhere, okay? We need to start playing good football and then having a base to start being more consistent to have an opportunity to win more games, not by accident. And that's going to be one of the big, big things that we have to encounter and get better at it. You talk about infrastructure a lot.

And I just wanted to see if we could get some specifics because you and your team, you and your players had to buy cold weather gear for that game in Columbus, right? Can you give us any other like concrete examples? Because I just don't think most people understand like how different it is, you know? Well, look, when I first got there, I asked for a white scout program. Yeah. You know, you guys know about that. It's a program that you used to scout games.

download games and everything. So they didn't, they never heard about it. And they didn't have the money. They didn't want to give it to us. That was one thing. Then the other thing was tools for players when they would come to the national team

to be able to, for example, get treated properly, right? Tools where players can use them, to recuperate themselves faster. We didn't have that. So we have all those issues. And then you spoke about the gear.

That was a weird thing. Okay? We had to, somebody, when we got to the States, somebody donated that gear because it was so cold. I remember, we were in Indian. a week or 10 days before the game.

And it was so cold. It was freezing. And we didn't have the proper clothes for that time. And then other things that we've gone out little by little helping and asking people to help us. Because again, if you guys remember, you might not remember. but in the last year, we almost were basically punished by FIFA, okay? Because the government came in and seized operations at the Federation. And for three months of Federation, I was there.

We didn't get paid. We couldn't work. and FIFA was analyzing everything and we were so close of being completely shot off and not participating anything and then FIFA put in what they call a normalization

four or five people that FIFA picked to be able to fix what was wrong in the federation and up to now I heard yesterday they're going to be there for another year in order to finish administratively what it needs to be fixed. Okay.

So you're talking about all these things happening, all those problems that we had. And so far, we've survived. Wait, so there are FIFA enforcers working in the El Salvador federal federal. Yeah, we don't have a legit president right now. No. No.

It's just temporary people that FIFA has put there to fix administratively everything in the federation. And then after that, they're going to have, they're going to vote for somebody to come in as a president, but it's going to take another year for us to do that. So these people are helping a lot. They've helped a lot. They're not football people, okay?

You got lawyers there and stuff like that. Yeah. But, you know, little by little is getting better. But again, like I told you before, you know, there's been people here in the United States that has helped us to get all these tools and stuff like that that we need for the national team to be able to function. I want to go back to when you were a kid. You first played in parks in East Los Angeles with adult semi-pros as a teenager. I read in an old article that there were sometimes thousands of people at these games and people would give like press money into your hand after a game.

game, sounds remarkable. What do you, what do you remember about, about those days? I have a few more questions, but just generally, what do you remember? No, it's just, you know, when I came from El Salvador, I moved to the U.S. when I was 11. And when I got to the U.S., I, I always thought, what's going to happen to me now, you know? I didn't want to leave my country, but I left it because my parents moved here. But I grew up playing football in the streets in El Salvador. That was my thing. So when I came here, I realized, what am I going to do now?

Where am I going to play and all this? And then, obviously, once I settled, I started playing with a Mexican team of teenagers. But when I turned 14, there was a club that was called El Salvador in Los Angeles. Los Angeles. That club has been there for years since the 60s, and a lot of the players that play there had played professionally in our country. My dad played there. So my dad used to take me there when he was training.

I was about 12 years old. And I grew up with those guys. I played with those, train with those adults. So when I turned 14, they asked me if I wanted to play. And, you know, growing up playing soccer, I always grew up playing with older kids, never my age. So they asked me, if I want to play, I said yes. It was like a semi-pro team. I couldn't get paid because I was under age. Okay. So what they said to me is, we'll pay you for every goal that you score. Okay. And we used to have, look, honestly, when we play,

we used to have about 1,500 people, 2,000 people watching. Wow. And that's how I grew in the California League. We play all this big clubs there and I got paid. I think I was getting paid about $20 a goal. So the more goals I scored, the more I got paid. And that's the story of it. But that helped me, honestly, to realize that I wanted to really become a professional player

and live of that. Because I didn't finish high school. I went straight to the pros when I was 17. But that started the whole thing that I wanted to be a pro, realizing that I could make money playing football. And if I did it well, I could make more money. So that's how it started. How big was the league?

Was it like a bunch of ethnic teams around L.A.? Yeah, Mexican teams, watermelon teams. Peruvian teams, American teams, Salvadorian teams. I think that the league, again, at that time, it was the most important league in Southern California,

the California League. So... Does it still exist? I think it still exists, but not to the point where it was 30 years ago, 40 years ago. Because I know we used to play in Oxnard, San Bernardino.

We played all over, Southern California. So it was a big league at that time. Were you disappointed when, I read somewhere that you were thrown off your high school team for like being a pro? Were you? Is that true? I was playing high school. And in high school there's a rule that during the three months of high school, you cannot

play for another team. You can't. It's against the rules. Okay. So what happened were somebody had contact me from the school that UCLA was watching me, and that they were going to offer me a scholarship to play in college. But I was so crazy that I did not obey the rules of the school. So what happened one day was we played a high school and we won A-0 and I scored seven goals.

So the coach from the other team started calling the local leagues and saying this guy, you know, maybe he thought I was too good. There's no way this guy can be only playing high school. So he started calling and he got to the California League and they told him I was registered. So he called a high school and said, look, your player broke the rules. It's not supposed to be playing outside high school. and we played him last week. He was the one who scored seven goals,

but I called all the leagues, and I found out that he's registering the California League. So the school called me. They took away our points. Okay? We were in first place, and they told me you're suspended from playing soccer with the high school.

And then afterwards, I found out that, that since I was suspended, that UCLA was not interested anymore in giving me a scholarship. So what I did after that was I dropped out of high school and I went to another team in the greater LA League and they asked me, they told me they were going to pay me $100 a game

and that they were going to give me an apartment to live. And that's when I decided just to quit school and dedicated myself just to play. What did your dad do when you were growing up? My dad was, he used to come here and buy trucks, you know, those semi-trucks, and then take him to Osabweather sell him and that's how he, that was his business. Okay. Yeah.

Like he would arrange for their shipment down to El Salvador? He would come here and then he would, for example, buy two or three trucks. He would drive one and then hire two guys to drive him back to El Salvador. All the way down through Mexico. All the way down to Mexico. He did that for a lot of years as I was growing up, but I didn't grow up too much with my dad. Basically, I grew up with my brothers,

my two brothers and my mom wore than my dad. And, you know, for history, part of my family from my dad's side were all professional players in El Salvador. are. So it wasn't a surprise that one of his sons became a professional player. I wanted to ask you, so you were, I think you were snubbed by the Federation, the Salvadorian Federation in 1982. If I'm not mistaken, you asked if you could train with them while you were playing in Tampa, and they said no, is that right? And I wonder if you could just tell that story real quick.

Yeah, they were Maybe I got it all wrong. No, no, no. They were going to the World Cup at that time, if you remember, they had qualified in 81. And I had a cousin who was playing with me in the El Salvador team in California. And he had played professionally aware

and he played for the national team. So he asked me if I was interested in maybe being looked by the national team for future appearances. And I said, yeah, no problem. So he spoke to the Federation. He spoke to the guys who were in charge. And they came to a lay one time to play an exhibition game.

And I asked him, you know, tell them if I can go train with them. Okay, at least I knew I wasn't going to make the work. I was 16 years old, 17 years old at that time. Oh, okay. And what happened was they said, No. He said, no, no, we don't know this guy. He doesn't live in in Salvador.

No, we're not interested. So what happened was after that, that same year, I got a trial with Tampa Bay Rowdies. Famous coach who was there, Gordon Jago, English guy. So I went there for a week. I was already training and playing with the LA Astics, if you remember from the NASL. They offered me a contract,

but the contract was a rookie contract, not too much money. I think it was at that time. The minimum was $24,000 a year. So I went to Tampa. I met somebody who went to watch me play in San Pedro. And he said, look, I watched you play a couple times already. Are you interested in playing professional?

professionally, I'm an agent. And I say, yeah, I didn't have an agent at that time. And a couple of months later, he said, you know, I can take you to Tampa Bay. I know people there. So I went there. Then I signed, I was there for a week. They liked me. I signed.

And six months into the season with Tampa Bay, they asked me if I wanted to become a U.S. citizen. Because the under 20 national team was going to go to Guatemala for the qualifier. for the 1983 World Cup in Mexico for the under 20s. Okay. And that's when I said, yeah. And I said yes right away because I wanted to play against my country for not giving me the opportunity to play. And I got at that time, you know,

the Federation and Tampa Bay worked it out. I got my citizenship in six months. And I was able to go to Guatemala. and we qualified for the World Cup. And I went to Mexico, and that's the story. They didn't want me in my country, so I said, if the U.S. wants me to play it, you know, it would be a privilege to play for them.

Plus, I wanted to play against my country. And you know the story. In 88, okay, we were qualified for the Olympics in Seoul. We got to the group stage, and we had to play at Salvador in El Salvador in El Salvador, Salvador. That was the first time I was going to play against them for something real.

So I remember getting there, the stadium was packed, okay? And obviously they knew what had happened. And obviously they knew what I had said that I wanted to play against them. So we went there and we beat them 42

and I scored two goals against them. Okay. And that was satisfying for me. what they had you know deny me it's hard to to explain it

when you're born in a country you want to play for the country you have the ability and they said no to you it did hurt a lot at that time that's a great story I mean there's so much we could talk about here

but I want to ask you quickly about is it al-Idihad is that how you say that the name? Al-Idi-hat. I'm not sure how much you play there, but is it crazy for you to see the news

about them now? They're signing Conte, Fabino, Karim Benzima, maybe Mosala, who knows? Loads, knowing, to be fair, I mean, I went there because we played the Confederations Cup in Saudi Arabia. We had won the Gold Cup,

if you remember in 91, the first Go Cup, we won. So the seven nations from all over the world that had won their tournament in each continent went there to play in Saudi. And after the tournament, I had a good tournament. I came back to the U.S. A month later, they called me, says, would you like to play there? There's a club there that's called Itihad. It's the most popular club in Saudi Arabia, far beyond everybody else. It's the club where you go anywhere in Saudi, you have people chanting for you.

So I went there at that time. It's always been a country of football. Football is a passion there. It's not a hobby. And now I see what Saudi Pro League is doing, okay, which has gone to really, they want to buy the best players in the world

and they want to have that league to be the best in the world. That's what they're doing that. And obviously also because they want to host the World Cup in 2030. So they're spending millions now. Iti had, I was there, and this is a true story. When you go to Saudi Arabia, Yeah, especially with that club.

If they like you, if you play well, they'll remember you forever. Okay. If you don't play well, you're out of there in the first three months. And I was there for a year. I didn't want to sign more. And two reasons I didn't want to sign one was because when I went there, I had become a Christian. And then Christianity there is no.

Okay. you can't gather or else you have to respect their religion. And second, it was a difficult country where not for me, basically, because I don't drink and I don't party or anything like that. But at that time, women couldn't drive. There was no cinemas. There was no, nothing. Although Jeddah is a beautiful place to live, is by the Red Sea.

Okay. So those two things were like kind of, I don't know if I should go, you know. So Edihad is in Jeddah? It's in Jeddah. Okay, okay. Yeah. That's why I didn't sign for more years. But the year I was there, I played well.

People loved me and respected me. It's a funny thing. You know, I was to tell this story. I went to a place in and buy a watch. Okay. So I come into the store and I'm looking at watches. And then one guy comes in and he's, Ah, Will Perez.

Ah, la, la, la, la, take a picture. So anyway, I said to the guy, listen, I want to buy this watch. And he said, and the guy says, which one? And I said this one. Okay, he says, let me bring it for you. So he goes in and brings a watch. And I'm getting ready to pay. And the guy says to me, no, no, no.

You don't pay for anything here. You play for us. We love you. This is a gift for you. And I didn't pay. And there were times after games that they would leave me like a card. And they would say, I need you to meet me next day at my store. So I would go there and get at that time the big screen TVs were coming out.

So I would go there and I would say, look, I was there. You were fantastic yesterday. pick a TV whatever you want, it's on us. That's how crazy they were there for the players and people. And I have a friend who play with me, and we've been texting each other for months now. When, what's his name? When the club signed Benzema, okay?

The guy calls me, says, listen, I want you to welcome Benzema to the club, to the team. all right so I need you to write something and I need you to video something all right so I got I video myself saying hey benzima hey nice you know you're welcome to eat the hat and all that because that's how the people are there you know generous people yeah I keep good touch with them and again for me I'm not that I because I play there but it is the best club that you can go into the other clubs are super rich right now the government has taken over and spending all those millions of money to bring the best players. But I always have good memories from that club. We're going to take a little break and we'll be right back with a lot more for patrons, mostly about U.S. soccer, including Hugo's experience with the current player pool, how he thinks more could be gotten from that group than what we've seen,

the soccer player and soccer teams responsibility to entertain and why he left U.S. soccer. Again, if you're a patron, it's coming right up. If you're not, you can sign up the links in the show notes. If this is it for you, thanks for listening. We'll see you.