Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #502: Concacaf & the Copa with Jon Arnold

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

Jon Arnold checks in for the second time this month, this time to discuss a little about Concacaf's history in the Copa America, the USA's Jekyll & Hyde showing in the tune-up friendlies, a rundown of how things look for the other Concacaf participants with the tournament starting in two days, and how Haiti's unrest is affecting its football federation.———Sign up for the Getting Concacaf'd newsletter here: https://getconcacafed.substack.com/———Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon! Patrons get a private feed for the Monday Review, which is, among other things, a run-down of club action for national team players every week with Watke and Vince. We have recently added patron-only content that’s available every Friday. Patrons also get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffed Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuff podcast where we talk about U.S. soccer. Hey, everybody, it's Tuesday, June 18th, two days until the start of Copa America. Our great friend of the pod, Jesse Marsh, is going to be facing Argentina. Even better friend of the pod, John Arnold, here with me right now. John, how you doing? I'm good. Anytime before a tournament, I'm just ready for the ball to get kicked because in media, which I love doing the podcast that we did a couple weeks ago

and all these different things. You're just talking about what could happen, what might happen. And a lot of times it's a lot easier to talk about what's actually happened. So I'm ready. Let's do it. Curious, let's start with the U.S. What do you make of the sort of Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde, showing they've had in these tuneups?

Yeah. I think like, and that's another thing that I'm excited to, you know, get the tournament going and to really see, like, how teams play in the official matches that actually matter. Because I think a lot of times in friendly matches, even if the personnel is familiar, even if the managers are doing the same thing they generally do, I just think that the tone is different and the vibe is different.

I think you saw that a little bit with the U.S. getting shellacked by Colombia and then playing pretty well and getting a result, I guess, against Brazil. So I'm never sure exactly how much to make of these pre-tournament-friendly matches. and I think like you could probably do a deep dive and sort of determine how much to actually make of them, but I feel like the answer would be they're not a super reliable predictor of success or failure at these major tournaments.

That being said, I think that like if Greg Berhalter is right that the team needed a wake-up call, that Colombia was a wake-up call, that's not great, I wouldn't say for the U.S. because to me, like we talked about last time, man, And, like, this tournament is extremely important for the U.S. I think it's extremely important for Burrhalter.

And I think there are still legitimate concerns to be had about how poorly that first game went. And I would say the truth is probably in the middle of those two games, right? And I think we will see on the field just kind of which, yeah, if the U.S. is Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde, or if they are take a potion of seriousness and look good. but then you revert back to whatever the hell the other one was when you're not taking game seriously. Maybe that's the reality. Yeah.

A potion of seriousness. That would be nice. Yeah, I guess I worry about how they'll play against Bolivia and Panama because they have this tendency to be inconsistent in their mentality. And you talk about like Jesse and Canada, and like I think in some ways they have, have a bit of a blessing in that they have the opposite framework of group as the U.S.

where no one expects them to win that first game against Argentina, but then they should be able to get results in the other two games in advance. The U.S. is the opposite, right? If you screw up, if you don't take Bolivia seriously, if you don't take Panama seriously, then all of a sudden you're playing the highest ranked team in your group with everything on the line, whereas for Canada, you get that out of the way. So look, again, like this is kind of back to this pre-tournament, what's better? whose path is easier, but I do think it matters and it could be relevant, right?

So, yeah, like to me, I guess the biggest stumbling block that Bolivia could put in front of the U.S. is just, they are a competent team, right? They're not good. They haven't won official matches outside of Bolivia in a decade. And yet, they can play soccer. Like, they're not total jokers. And if you treat them as such, then you could get surprised. Yeah, they've played tough game

I mean they get beat But it's not like a It's not like a total You know annihilation when they lose in common ball usually You had a I think it was this morning Your newsletter Had a really nice

Sort of rundown of the history Concaf's history in the Copa And I wanted to talk about a few of those things Let's start with Mexico I guess They've been there 11 times, right? What's the high point for them? What's the low point for them at Copa? Yeah, Mexico has been to the final twice.

I think 1993 was much more kind of evocative, first of all, compared to, you know, when you look at the photos and the video highlights, grainy highlights and four three aspect ratio, you know, it's more like, oh, my gosh, like this is so romantic. And I think it was just a better Mexico team as well. The 2001 tournament, maybe we'll talk about that as well, it was extremely bizarre. So weird, there were these security threats that meant teams were pulling out, that teams weren't sending their best players, some players didn't want to go.

Honduras showed up, escorted by, I believe, the Colombian Air Force the day before their first game, and the tournament had already started. So plenty of chaos there. Mexico made the final that one, but I think the 93 is like a bit more sort of representative. they weren't able to win. It's kind of like Mexico's history in Copa Libertadores as well,

where the clubs have often been quite good. They've had really impressive performances. You have these legendary games, and they ultimately fall short. So, yeah, I mean, Mexico, it makes a lot of sense that they've been the invited team so many times because of that brotherhood that exists between Mexico

and their Latin American friends in Connoble. Yeah, I guess it was, it is fun to watch the highlights you link to in the newsletter. that was Gabriel Batistuta, who scored a brace against them in 93. Sort of the, he looks like, he's like the first soccer player I think of when I think of a soccer player who looks like a male model. Yeah. Yeah.

Tall, long hair and also a very good player. So that, a little bit about that 2001 Copa, because that was in Columbia, right? That's why there were security concerns. Things weren't quite sorted out. Yeah, there were the FARC and everybody. I should have done more research into kind of what the threats were, but there are all these different terrorist threats, you know, because of the lack of peace in Colombia.

Argentina ended up pulling out. Well, the whole tournament was canceled and then uncanneled. So they said, hey, we're not going to do this. Actually, we are. Canada was supposed to be the guest team. This will be Canada's first Copa America this year. But they were supposed to be the guest team in 2001. But after Conball had canceled the tournament,

they send all their guys home okay thanks for coming to camp good luck enjoy your family or summer vacation or whatever it is and then incomable was like just kidding Canada didn't feel like bringing their guys back apparently and so Costa Rica was the first replacement Costa Rica comes in for Canada then Argentina pulled out because of these security threats as well and all of a sudden Andudas shows up and they beat Brazil in the in the knockout game so you know it was just a very strange sort of looking back on that tournament you're like like, man, what were the contemporary reports like? And, of course, you know, talk about, like, terrorism and security and everything.

And this was a couple months before September 11, 2001. So it's just an interesting kind of time capsule. And you look back again, some of the great footage and some of the players in that tournament. And it is evocative and sort of, in a way, nostalgic, but also seems like total chaos. You know, it's funny because, like, I feel like when you're reading about some of these old tournaments, this happens, right? Oh, this team pulled out. This team couldn't make it. This team's boat got delayed or whatever in these early sort of international tournaments.

But then you think about how we're going to look at like the 2021 Gold Cup or Brazil, Argentina, World Cup qualification in the 2022 cycle. Remember that game in Brazil where Argentina players were on the field and the medical officials were running on saying, no, you can't play because of a COVID test. And that game never got made up. Commonwealth, I think, got lucky that both teams qualified easily because they're so strong and good. you know, Curacao gets kicked out of the Gold Cup for positive COVID tests. Like this stuff ended up happening again for different motives, but those are the types of things where you're like, man, in 20 years, this isn't going to make sense to people who didn't live it since I was 11 at the time of the 2001 Copa medic.

I don't remember what exactly happened and I should probably dig a little deeper in the reports. But it just sounds like it was chaos sort of making the tournament with popsicle sticks and gum and trying to stick everything together. But ultimately it got played. Yeah. I mean, I can give a little, I think I can give a little bit of color on it because Uribe, the president who kind of, you know, he's still controversial to this day because he's kind of, I think he's a little bombastic. I don't speak Spanish very well, but I gather he's bombastic. He was elected in 2002 and he's the one who, you know, sort of put the cowboy hat on and like ended the conflict, essentially, you know, not it didn't end it, but brought security.

I mean, there's legitimate, like, peace negotiations, right? With the FARC and with these other groups, like, there are, you had to sign a treaty to say stop. Yeah, committing acts of terrorism, right? But also, you know, it was sort of got to crack some eggs to make some omelets kind of situation, too. And so a lot of people are still mad about how he did it all. But anyway, not a Colombian politics podcast. But it's interesting that that was right before he was elected. You know, he was elected to come in and be like the hard man.

Yeah, and one thing real quick, like this tournament's taking place in the U.S., I think we all kind of benefit from it because we can go to games more easily and the six CONCAP teams get invited. Commonwealth used to have a rotation and who knows what's happened to it now because COVID changed the last one. This one's being moved kind of for insecurity where it was alphabetical order and you just cycled through the 10 members as to who would host this tournament. Because for the most part, everyone wants to host, everyone can host. Ecuador was supposed to host this year. There's some insecurity right now in Ecuador as they sort of grapple with their role. in the geopolitic... Yeah, well, and how to combat that

and sort of, it's been an overlooked country, it's been very safe because people haven't cared, and now that's starting to change. You have a new president who's kind of trying to follow the model of Buckele and El Salvador who cracked tons of eggs, and whether or not he's made an omelet is kind of up to your perspective.

But, you know, it is interesting to see these things still happening in the world, in the region. And, yeah, like, in some ways, although it is not a direct terrorist threat like you had in 2001 in Colombia, you're still seeing Copa America getting moved around, I think mostly as an excuse this time to make some American dollars, but Ecuador sort of willingly ceded its rightful position as the host of this tournament in part because of their own struggles as a country.

Yeah, well, and there's something in your newsletter this morning about, is it the Curisal players who can't? It was Cayman Islands players who couldn't play in Cuba. For a World Cup qualifier, yeah, basically a lot of the guys, British passports, they're in the U.S. on student visas and they don't want to forfeit the status that makes it easier to get approved for visas to get back into the country when you go kind of an electric registration, electronic, electronic registration system that does use electricity. And they don't want to forfeit that status. And a lot of people who have gone to Cuba have lost that status or sometimes even lost their visas. And so Cayman Islands didn't play. again, I still need to do a little more reporting

as to figure out exactly what Conccaf and FIFA who is running the World Cup qualifiers plan to do about that. I think they're also going to try and hope that it blows over like Argentina Brazil, but on a much, much, much more obscure and nerdy scale because only people like you and I are paying attention to it, whereas

an Argentina-Brazil game is kind of a world stopper. But, yeah, I mean, these things absolutely still happen. I think, you know, there's been some good reporting in the athletic a couple months ago that when you talk about the 2026 World Cup, you know, the U.S. State Department and how they allow or don't allow people to come into the country,

it is a concern because if you're a fan of a nation that's on one of these types of lists or if you're a fan of a country that doesn't have a good relationship with the U.S., they're saying you better start applying now for your tourist visa for 2026. But who knows, right? Like, you might not qualify,

but it would be a real show. shame. On the one hand, you have to do certain things. We see with the euros, oh, there's fights between fans of Serbia and potentially Albania, although it seems like maybe they're England fans. But, you know, you see these potential moments of conflict that kind of come out of geopolitical realities, animosities, feelings legitimate or not of being overlooked, of and legitimate hatred too, right? There's disgusting things that show up in our game all the time. So you have to balance that reality of trying to keep. people safe that just want to go see a soccer tournament

with the fact that fans of all stripes, colors, et cetera, should be able to see their team at the World Cup at the Euroves, at the Copa Medica, whatever it might be. Yeah, we'll see, we'll see. This always happens to us, man. We go, we start with, like,

hey, what's up? Let's preview the tournament. And then it ends up being this very heady, big picture discussion. I like it. Well, it's interesting that the State Department could easily just be like, oh, you're on, the national team of the Cayman Islands, you can have your electric registration.

We'll give you all the electricity you need. But they just don't care, right? It seems too, yeah, it seems too small scale in a lot of ways. And like they would have had, I think from what I understand from a reporter in the Cayman Islands, they would have had to go to Jamaica to process these long-term Cuban visas that they could have gotten. But again, it's all like very, yeah,

if the U.S. State Department was kind of paying attention, quote unquote, could they have rushed 26 of these things through? Yeah, almost certainly. But it's not Argentina, Brazil, so they don't, right? Yeah, fair enough. Okay. I mean, I don't know if it's fair enough, but we can move on. So the USA's high point, obviously 1995.

You brought that up in the newsletter. It was really fun to see Alexi Lala's score goal of Robert Levin. He's a kind of goal off the, off a fizzed ball through the six, just redirected it in. He had a different hairstyle back then. But anyway, what, what did that game mean? I mean, it was, I'll just let you talk. How about that? No, I mean, I'm sure like some of your listeners and some of my readers probably, like, remember it, right?

But it's so interesting to sort of look back and it's easy a lot of times. I usually talk about this with like Major League Soccer. It's so easy to think like, oh, soccer in the U.S. started in 94 and club soccer in 96. And there were so many things that happened before that, right? The U.S. was getting invited to this very important, very major tournament that had decades and decades of history turned 100 in 2016. And what did it mean? Like, I don't know.

I can't imagine that it broke through the mainstream, but maybe. be right like i i don't think but maybe got like a sports center mention or something and that was quite important in in 1995 right so i i i'd love to hear from some of our our more veteran listeners and and readers of the newsletter about their memories of that because i think it'd be pretty insightful and i just don't have that context it is the moment where raj bennett starts the american fiasco podcast because um he gives you gives you the sense that there were these great expectations in U.S. soccer. You know, to give people the details, we beat Argentina 3-0 in the group stage.

I think won all our group stage games, right? The U.S. won, or won the group, at least. Won the group. And then lost to Brazil in the semifinals in a close game. And so people were like, hey, we're, we made it. We made it. We did it. We had a World Cup.

Now we're beating Argentina, taking Brazil to the mat. And then that, of course, led up to the 1998 World Cup, which was a, you know, the fiasco that I guess we all kind of remember. So it was maybe fools gold. I don't know. And also I think indicates that every tournament is different. Every tournament comes with its own context, whether that's the political stuff we're talking about

or just, oh, this guy's injured, this start didn't show up, or some of the tournaments later where the Concacaf team send a B team or a C team or whatever because it conflicts with a gold cup or because they just want to prepare for a different tournament. I think that's important. And it can be tough when we're looking back at history now, of course, with YouTube and the podcasts and digital, although sometimes it's hard to dig through a digital archive. But I think it's easier to maybe to kind of contextualize and see what people are saying at the time. It's definitely not impossible with these tournaments in the 90s and, you know, before that.

But I think it can be tough to understand exactly what it meant or how it felt without those touchstones, right? So I think every tournament is different. And that's why we play him, but that's also why, you know, just because Argentina won the last cup of America, doesn't mean that they'll win this one, and things change and things evolve. And even if the team looks the same, doesn't mean it'll perform the same,

doesn't mean guys are still able to do the same thing. It doesn't mean that other teams haven't sussed out what you can do. So, I think, yeah, it's interesting to, U.S. soccer history is kind of like that, right? You have these moments of, oh, my gosh, we made it, we did it 2002, right? like, hey, we're the top dog. We're going to compete. We're hanging around with these countries.

If there hadn't been this call, we would be so far in the World Cup. And in 06, and the subsequent World Cups weren't. Yeah. That was also, in a way, it was gold, but maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was gold at the time that then loses its shimmer. Clearly, I don't know about minerals or politics, huh? Yeah. You know, as I say, development's not linear.

It's one step forward, two steps back sometimes. Anyway, this tournament coming up, let's talk about the other Concaf participants a little bit, just a little bit, quickly touch on all of them. How's Panama looking right now? They got some comfy tune-ups. Yeah, it's interesting. They had a late, late game with Badawai that they lost.

But other than that, they did a tour of, they did two games in Spain. against state national teams. That were the department national teams? They played the... Yeah, well, they played... I think it was Galicia and the Basques. So that was interesting.

They played in World Cup qualification more recently, and that went well. Panama's had trouble scoring. They've had trouble finishing. And I think that that sort of, you know, getting a couple of goals even against Giants. and Montserrat was pretty helpful just to say, we've got some goals under our belt.

They didn't score on that friendly against Paraguay, but again, there's some alternate lineups going on there. So I think they come in, feeling pretty good. They have the quote-unquote Canada schedule because they all put against Duagua, then faced the U.S., then Bolivia.

So it gets hard, easier, and easiest from the rankings, from what we expect to happen. Who knows what will happen on the field? But I think Panama is in that place still where we kind of have talked about it before you and I, like, it's a good team. They got players in good places, but they just haven't had that next step. People talk about Greg Burrhalter and the U.S. needing a quote-unquote signature win against

some top-top team. Panama's definitely not had that. They beat Costa Rica, which is awesome for them. They love being the top team in Central America. But it's one thing to be the best team in Central America and another thing entirely to compete in the Americas, in Latin America and in the whole continent. So that's next for Panama. Have they shown they can do that with these pre-tournament friendlies and the World Cup qualifiers?

Not yet, so we'll see. We'll see how it goes. But they're in a good spot. It's a good Concaf team, but I don't know that it's going to be a great Concaf team, at least not yet. Yeah, but you're definitely an upset for them to get out of it. Them beating the U.S. in World Cup qualifying in Panama City, that was not a signature win for Christensen? Doesn't count? The thing is that if you don't then follow it up with,

I think anything in World Cup qualification, especially in this region, feels a little empty if it doesn't come with the World Cup, right? Yeah, fair enough. If you don't make the tournament. Yeah, but there are. And look, you could say, well, Panama made the Gold Cup final last time around

against, you know, beating the U.S. and I was an alternate U.S. squad. So I think that, in a lot of ways, it's easy to cheapen the victories against the U.S. I'm not sure that they locally are searching. for that signature win necessarily as much as a big statement, right? Like a tournament where they can point to and say, we're on the map. We belong consistently.

And I think it's pretty proven that 2018 getting to the World Cup in Russia was no fluke, but sustaining that success is going to be difficult to do. And they have to bounce back from not making 2022. And I think they're in that process in a lot of ways. All right. Let's hope they beat Uduuguay, pull off a miracle. What's the feeling in Mexico's camp? It's been a bad patch, obviously.

Got run off the pitch by Uduai and then respectable 3-2 loss to Brazil, I think. Yeah, it was a good game against Brazil. They got scored on relatively early and the response was great. And they conceded again and all of a sudden they had a pretty strong response to that as well. Played a bit of a weird team against Uduwai that I think sort of frustrated Mexico fans. I think it frustrated Uruguay because they wanted the preparation and sort of, you know, that contact against the other top teams before the tournament. But ultimately, Mexico chose to do that. And a lot of the choices that are being made, it's a little unclear sometimes if it's Federation, if it's Jaime Lozano, the manager, if it's some combination of the two, because, you know, they opted to leave out some key players.

Yermo Ochoa, Memochoa, the goalkeeper is not there. Everyone thought Luis Malagon, the America goalkeeper, replaced Ochoa as the America number one, would be. would be the Mexico number one. He took an injury. Now it's not really clear who's going to be in goal. They have fewer questions, I think, about the starting lineup after goalkeeper. I think, you know, the centerback pairing of Johann Vasquez and Cesar Montes is pretty established. It's an Alvarez.

Can play there if they need him, but I think they'll want him in the midfield. Santiago Jimenez is the starting forward now because there's no Raúo Jimenez. There's no Henry Martin. Oriol Antuna comes in off a really good season. But when you get to that point of listing guys and it's not like messy and you know, you wonder, hey, is this going to be good enough to have a great tournament, especially if the mood like you're saying isn't, isn't extremely positive. So I think Mexico in a lot of senses is in the same place before a tournament that they often are.

There's expectation, but can they match that expectation? There's frustration. Does that frustration boil over? It feels like Mexico, to me, it feels like. Mexico's like an album stuck on repeat. You hear in the same songs. Sometimes maybe you hear something different or it's got a little bit of a quirk you hadn't noticed before, but man, it just looks kind of like quote-unquote same old Mexico

to me. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. All right. I'm not going to say good luck to Mexico, but, you know, be watching with some interest. What happened with Leon Bailey in Jamaica? It's interesting.

Yeah. So in March, Leon Bailey wasn't on the Jamaica roster because of disciplinary reasons. Jamaica manager, Homer Hoggumson, said that Bailey had left the camp, the team. Basically, the manager, Hougramson's manager said, we got one rule. You got to make curfew. And he didn't. He didn't even stay in the hotel one night in Canada when they were there for the Nation's League quarterfinals. So we're not going to bring him in for the March games.

The Nation's League semifinal and ended up being the third place game. But we're going to invite him back in as soon as he's kind of served this internal suspension. Okay. A couple of days later, Bailey shows up on a podcast and says a lot of true things about the Jamaican Federation, at least from what I've been able to understand from other players, players who have been there before, seen with my own eyes around the Federation. The accommodations often aren't good enough. The flights are not. we don't fly first class or business class where a lot of the other national teams

might be able to afford to bring their players in like that the support isn't good enough. We've heard this from the Jamaica women's team. There's sort of no reason to doubt, I guess is what I'm saying, some of the accusations that Leon Bailey makes. But it all comes to head where he says, I'm taking a break. I'm not going to play for the national team.

He wasn't in the roster for June's World Cup qualification matches. Understandable, Jamaica able to get victories in both. They're playing teams that they should have and did beat. and then when the Copa America roster drops, he's on it. But Halgroomson, the Jamaica manager, says, since the squad was expanded to 26 for this tournament, we felt like we could call in three guys that we don't think are going to be there. And one of them is Bailey, and two of them are veteran players with injuries,

Andre Blake, the goalkeeper, and Amari Bell, the defender. So essentially Jamaica is going to approach this tournament with a 23-man roster, as though it is the same rules as a tournament four or five years ago before we saw this expansion for COVID. It's not a decision I would make. I think it's a little curious. And in a lot of ways, I think it was a bit of a

challenge to Bailey. You're on the roster. Show up or don't. And in theory, you know, like we could have a WWE moment, right? Of, oh my God, that's Leon Bailey's music and he runs down the tunnel to warm up because he's on the

roster. But, I don't think he's going to show up. So I think it's, in a way, I think it's, yeah, kind of trying to force Bailey's hand, but at the same time, all of it, like, it's sort of a shame to me because still a really good Jamaica team, right? Like, it's still a team that I think, you know, like, Michael Antonio is the forward, Samar, Nicholson, we've seen how good he's been in Concaf games. There's other teams, there's other players, pardon me, that they're at top, top club. that are going to be part of this Copa America.

But like all the media around him, myself included, is just talking about how Bailey's not there because he's the most famous player, he's the best player, he's in the best form. So it's a weird one. And I think by putting him on the roster, you invite more questions, even though they then said,

hey, case closed, we're not going to talk about this more. Well, okay, but I got the roster here and it says Leon Bailey's name on him, and he's not here. It's weird, man. It's a weird, weird situation. Why bring the old injured guys, too? I mean, that's maybe for locker room presence or? Right.

And I'm not, I'm really not sure. Maybe it's been said if those guys will be doing recovery. You know, a lot of times a player will get injured during a tournament and he stays and does the recovery with the national team. It provides this sort of, yeah, locker room presence, this energetic boost. Oh, my gosh, we all love this guy or we're all rooting. We're doing it for him. when a player doesn't take an injury during the tournament,

I don't think you get that same sort of emotional energy. But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I'm not clear on if Blake and Bell will be in the locker room at the tournament. But again, they could be as well, right? And with Blake being one of them, you end up, you've named a roster with four goalkeepers. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't. I'm seeing that. That's whatever. How about Canada? Yeah, are they loving Jesse Marsh up there? I mean, I don't know. Yeah, it's a little hard to, like, gauge the reaction. I don't know what your sense has been.

It's, we don't have a big sample size, right? Yeah, I mean, drawing France, zero zero, seeming to play pretty well in that game, I think, is, you know, goes, has to go some distance towards winning some hearts and minds. I don't know. Yeah. Again, I think that, and funny enough, it sort of reminds me of Halgrooms and the Jamaica Man When he took over, he was on a pretty long winless skid. But like his first game, he showed up like three days before they played a friendly against Argentina

with like the full Argentina messy was playing. And then from there, it obviously only gets easier. Marsh had that really tough opener against the Netherlands in which Canada looked pretty poor. And then like it got poured on late. So I think the result looked even worse than they actually played the game against France where they looked pretty good. And you say, oh my gosh, maybe these guys have something. And now they play Argentina only on Messi.

the first game of the tournament where Argentina wants to defend its title. So I think the standard in a lot of ways, like, well, you can't fail the test in the first three questions if the first three questions are all the hardest ones you're going to have. So to me, I think like kind of the vibes around the Jesse Marsh era in general are going to be dictated by what Canada does after that Argentina game because everything from here, I think you have to kind of grade on a curve to continue the test metaphor. They face Peru and Chile, the rest of their group. Okay.

Yeah, well, as promise, we'll keep this short. Let's talk a little bit about Costa Rica. They face Brazil in their first game. Have they been surpassed by Panama? Yeah, no, absolutely. There's no doubt. Every time that Panama plays Costa Rica in competitive matches, Panama wins. I think the good news for Costa Rica is that we've been talking about generational change for Costa Rica for like a decade now.

Like after the 2014 World Cup, which was this obvious high watermark for Costa Rica, say, well, some of these guys are starting to get old. And then they just kind of kept going and kept going and kept going. And now all of these guys who will forever be remembered and celebrated are basically all gone. Kaila Navas announced his international retirement before this tournament. I think that he will probably keep playing professional soccer until past 2026 World Cup. But I feel that he, and he'd never been, he's committed to the national team in moments, but he'd never been, he wasn't shown up for Gold Cups.

He wasn't shown up for, you know, irrelevant friendly matches. He would play the games you would need to play, right? And so when you look at Cailor, I think he's an example of, yeah, like picking his spots. And I think he picked his spot to retire because there's a couple different guys that are, potential number ones for Costa Rica. It looks like Patrick Ciccetti is going to win the job for this tournament. Let's see. But even in the field, you've got a generation of players who are starting to play in some

either lower division clubs in Europe or some random leagues. You've got a couple of guys who are going to be stars. Manfredo Galdi is the forward who was kept out of the last process because of a beef with the manager. He's in. He's scoring goals. I think it's a good moment for Costa Rica. To me, this tournament is way too soon. for them to actually show anything.

You know, you've got a lot of guys who are in that process. I think, like, Warren Madrigal from Saprisa, really, really bright talent. I think he's 19. I think he's going to go to one of the Scottish clubs here in the next couple weeks. Maybe it's already been announced as official, I'm not sure. But, like, that's a guy who, in two or three years, you're thinking, hmm, he might be someone that we're circling for the 2026 World Cup or even the next cycle, right?

But not yet. And so I think Costa Rica is kind of in that process where, especially when you're talking about a group that it concludes Brazil and Colombia, Colombia that hasn't lost since 2022, Brazil that's Brazil. It's going to be difficult for them to get out of the group. And even if they beat Paraguay, it's tough to see. So I think Costa Rica is kind of one that we'll be talking about in Concaf circles again when we talk about Nations League, even maybe as soon as this year, as the March final four.

But right now, they're the second best team in Central America. and I think it's too soon to say that they're going to upset Brazil, Colombia, etc. Any other young players besides Madrigal that you're excited about at Coast Rica? I feel like there were a couple. I mean, Contreras is not that young. Yeah. Brandon Aguilera is one who was in the last World Cup cycle. Whenever Luis Fernando Suarez really sort of started to push that generation out

and bring in some of the young players, although even then it was sort of a slow burn, Aguilera's one that I really like. He's just creative and fun. He's a guy. And I think that probably more key and harder to sort of parse out like the midfield and the defenders, they're going to be more important, right?

Because you're not going to have Keelor. And so many times with Costa Rica, it was like, oh, 13 shots on target, clean sheet from Keelor Navas or whatever. Like a guy like Orlando Gallo in the midfield plays two ways, I think, is like another player who not a teenager, but is somebody who's going to be like,

a name that we're going to get familiar with in Conccaf for sure if people aren't already. So those are two guys who have been involved in the previous cycle who I think are starting to take that role on, maybe not a leadership role in the case of Aguilera, but like those are two guys that I like to watch and I think are fun to watch and I think we'll be talking about for years to come. Okay. So just two more things, more general kind of Conccaf stuff dipping into what you've been writing about over the last few weeks.

Yeah, and the getting Conccaf archives. Yeah, there we go. The crates. Before I forget, how do people sign up for getting Conccaf? Just find the link in the show notes. Yeah, probably the easiest. It's getconcaf.substack.com. So probably link in the show notes.

Yeah. I need to get a, so I can buy, I don't want to say what it is, but I just need to buy a URL that I think will be very good and funny, but I haven't done it yet. All right. Well, don't, yeah, don't spill the beans here. Because then someone will hold it hostage from me. You know what you're listening is, man.

Yeah, somebody will do that for sure. All right, so Haiti, you know, some very serious things going on there right now. How's that affecting their federation and soccer, the game of soccer there? Probably the least are their concerns right now. Yeah, and that's the thing is that in a lot of ways it is and it has to be, right? Haiti's overrun by gangs right now. There was kind of, there was a de facto prime minister who was elected after the previous one was assassinated. And he was kind of strong-armed out by,

a combination of quote unquote the international community which when we're talking about Haiti is generally like the U.S., France, and friends and people on the ground who were just like we didn't elect this guy, what's happening, why is this guy leading us through this horrendous moment where everything is overrun by gangs?

The national stadium has been overtaken by gangs. I'm not sure the total status of the kind of Federation headquarters and everything in Porto Prince. There was a league this year in Haiti, a men's league. that played games. So they're going to qualify teams for the Caribbean tournament that qualifies to

Comp Cap Champions Cup, but they won't be playing games in Haiti. A lot of those games took place in Kapaschen. I'm probably saying that wrong, the city in the north, where there has been less gang violence, still some, but less violence, that kind of let a soccer league take place. So it's a tough moment. And I think the Haiti men's national team for a long time has already been made up mostly of diaspora players, guys who are Haitian American, Haitian French, born abroad or born in Haiti, but left quite quickly. A couple guys in there who are kind of Haiti born and bred, but for the

most part, you know, the things you need to develop as a successful professional soccer player are much easier to find outside of Haiti. It's one of the things that makes their women's team so remarkable as well, because not only are there all these obstacles we're talking about, but there's the obstacles that already face women's soccer in the Caribbean and the horrendous situation of so many Haitian women suffering abuse at the hands of their own Federation directors for many years. So in the newsletter I wrote about a club called Juvenat, which is essentially a charity effort.

I was able to speak to the founder. He works at a local school and started the soccer program to give kids something to do. He said that the gang crisis in Haiti is because of a lack of opportunity for youth. Kids need money or food or other things to fulfill their needs, and they can't get that so they join a gang because what else is there to do? Juvenat is trying to provide a different pathway. And I think something that was important to me is, like I'm saying, like there's so many terrible things. There's so many challenges, but people still experience joy day to date, right? And I think that that's important to sort of remember is that, yeah, it's all bad.

But sometimes there are good things. You have to look a little harder for them. And, you know, what James Louise Charles is doing with his group is really amazing. If people are interested in learning more, they can check out the newsletter and there's a GoFundMe to help those efforts. But one thing that I think is really remarkable about what he said is that when you look at the world, of course, there's so many crises that break our hearts. You know, the situation in Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Gaza, you know, difficulties in other places in the world. But in Haiti, it's a socioeconomic crisis. And in theory, you could fix that with money, right?

Like, you could fix that with giving. people jobs and opportunity, whereas a military crisis based on ethnic ties, maybe is not as easy to do that, right? So he's not saying donate to his GoFundMe and the situation in Haiti will get fixed. He's saying that if the world's governments would look a little more carefully, perhaps this is something we could improve. But again, get into that a little bit more in that newsletter. And I think it, in a lot of ways, filters up to the Haitian Federation, even though a lot of their stuff is more based abroad. Okay. Yeah, interesting. And then you, You recently had a newsletter about Mexico City's Renaissance as a soccer city,

Club America and Cruz Azul both reaching the League of MECI's final. Is Ciudad de Mexico back? I think so. You know, these clubs in Monterey and the Guadalajara clubs, Chivas and Atlas, are always going to try and sort of rest that title away. The teams in Monterey spend so much, and Tigris has brought in Bound of it, the former fire manager, former Chivas manager, as their new boss.

So it'll be interesting to watch what he does. With his project, or Alice are big spending always, so they definitely have to fight them off. But I think Cruz Azul is showing big intent, made it to the final. Within the first year of Martina Unselmi, this manager who came in is something of an unknown in Mexico and made it to the final in his first season. They've already signed Yakamaquis from Atlanta United. And I think there's going to be a couple more signings to be announced. So they definitely want to continue to be strong.

America is the back-to-back champion. The only sort of wrinkle in the Mexico City being the power center of Mexican football is that the Azteca is closed. No more Azteca for a year and a half. Renovations because of the 26 World Cup that, while I love going to the Azteca, and it's always a privilege, renovations that are definitely needed. The infrastructure, the match-going experience at the Azteca doesn't meet the history and the greatness of that stadium. Why? What's wrong with it? I've heard a lot of people say that.

What's the deal? Yeah. So, well, I mean, first of all, it is enormous, and you are trying to get 90,000 people or whatever the actual capacity is, into the same place at the same time. It's never going to be easy, but little things that they could do,

I think, that would make it better, like running trains late. To help people kind of clear the area would be a huge thing. The lighting around the stadium is something quite basic, but there's, like, areas where you're just walking from. Even the stadium, if you're going to catch a taxi,

the stadium to kind of the taxi line is too dark. They need to make that better. And until recently, I went to a Glasgow National as a fan. Was it 2022, 23? Opertura 2022. And there was no mobile ticketing. You had to physically print your ticket. Now that's changed.

The last time I went to the Aztec, I did have the QR code. But things like that make the fan experience bad, right? right, especially when you're traveling, because you, I mean, you have to do the mobile ticketing obviously now. It's a new world. But like when I was having to produce paper tickets, like you buy them online and then you have to print them. I don't have a printer in my own home, much less as a tourist in Mexico City.

So we had to find an internet cafe and all these different things just kind of add up. Again, unbelievable, great experience to go. I'm so lucky that I'm able to go to so many games there. But I hope that the renovations, even the renovation process, one of the biggest things that they're fighting right now is that the suites, the luxury suites, are actually owned, like owned by the wealthy people who have the suites. And so they're having to buy people out or convince them that their suite is not going to be changed or is going to be changed or is going to be changed in a positive way. Like a lot of the politics around the renovation even are just things

that we wouldn't really experience in the U.S. a cultural difference that is subtle but significant, right? And so I think that's where there can be a little frustration when fans try and go and expect something like they would see in some of the other great cities of the world, which Mexico City absolutely is. When you go to a game in London, you go to a game in, a Euro game in Berlin, or a game here in the U.S. in L.A. or Dallas or New York, you expect a certain type of experience that sometimes doesn't quite happen in Mexico City because of the stuff that's around the game. I think that's where a lot of the frustration comes in.

So, yeah, to me, Mexico City's back as the soccer capital of the country because of the success of the club. but we'll see where Club America is even playing as soon as next month. Like when the league kicks off again in July, it's also TBD. There's rumors that it could be in the U.S., but I don't know if that's, I think that might be a little quick for that to happen, but there's rumors that they might play at the Estadio Halisco and play a home match in Wadalajara, unheard of, right? Like to have a Mexico City proud Mexico City Club play in the city of their rival

what Chivas used to play. But those are the things we'll be keeping an eye on and, of course, talking about on getting Kolka-Kaff as they happen. Okay. Hey, John, thank you so much. It's always fun, man. Like I said, I know we hope the listeners enjoy our deviations because it's always looks quite standard when you pass me the notes and then we end up in some interesting places. So I appreciate that about the show and hopefully everyone else does too. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you've ever heard the Monday review, but it's the deviations we're doing here are very mild compared to what goes on there. So I feel like we've been very disciplined, very disciplined.

Well, good. As long as that didn't take us too far off track. Well, thank you, thank you, John. Check out, getting concorda. I'll put a link in the show notes. And, you know, we'll be reading over the next few weeks. We'll see you. Cheers.