Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #560: The state of the U20 pool with Matt Hartman and Marcus Chairez

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Matt Hartman and Marcus Chairez, both close observers of the youth national teams and youth U.S. player pool, join Belz to break down the full U20 age group. The news hook is the ongoing camp in Florida but we talk about the actual best XI ahead of this fall's U20 World Cup (many of whom were not released for this camp) and the probable XI at the World Cup, considering who will be released by then. Check out Marcus's work at the U.S. Soccer Collective, which has become an indispensable source on soccer prospects from the USA.Twitter: https://x.com/USSoccerCollWebsite: https://www.ussoccercollective.com/ Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff podcast where we talk about U.S. soccer. Hey, everybody. We've got a U-20 episode coming your way today. I'm joined by Matt Hartman and Marcus Cherez, two guys who have joined us several times in the past. Thanks for being here, fellas. Matt, how you doing? I'm doing well, Bells. Happy to be here.

Happy to be back. It's been a little while. Yeah. We're recommitting ourselves, I would say. You know, coming back to the altar of youth national team soccer. Marcus, how are you doing? Good. Welcome back to youth soccer. Doing well. I'm out in Hamburg, Germany, and excited to be here.

You're going to run up to Kiel and check things out for John Tolkien? Well, it's not too far away. It's one of the few northern clubs up here. Funny enough, in a similar note, I just before this recording, I was getting my haircut. And I realize I'm wearing a beanie right now, which is not an indictment on the haircut. It's just cold outside. But it's the second time I've gone to this barber. It's two-minute walk from San Paoli Stadium.

And I started to talk to the barber a little bit about football. He's like, oh, I just had an American. in here who just joined the team a couple of days ago. I was like, well, I think I know who that is. James Sands. He's like, yeah, he was just in here. I gave 12 of the guys on the team haircut. So he came in, he said a super nice guy.

So a fun little soccer, American soccer story here in the northern parts of Germany. So I thought that was pretty cool. That is very cool. How's that neighborhood? How do you like it? Like, it sounds like it's a very cool place. Yeah, it's like it is the, you know, raw, progressive, a lot of interesting shops, restaurants in that area. It's really fun.

Yeah, the stadium's really cool. I've gone and checked it out. I have not yet gone to a match because tickets are really, really hard to get because it's a small stadium. Right. First time in the Bundesliga in decades. So tickets are. tough, but I hope to be able to go at some point maybe when John Tolkien comes in place, although, yeah, I'll have to look and see when that happens. But yeah, it's a very cool part of

the city in Hamburg and General's beautiful city. Nice. I say that about, I mean, many of you will know this, but I say that about Tolkien because he's apparently doing a medical with Goldstein-Kiel, the team that beat Dortmund Ford in 4-2 a couple days ago. And as a result, he left January camp. But we are here to talk. about the U-20 player pool. The U-20 World Cup starts in September in Chile. Marco Mitrovich, the coach for that age group, called in a bunch of players for a camp that opened on Saturday in Florida,

where the USMNT is also training under POTCH this week ahead of matches against Venezuela and Costa Rica. There's also been some massive news, which I'm sure we'll get into in the prospectusphere because No Key Banks made his debut in the Bundesliga for Augsburg. He didn't play yesterday, but he did play over the weekend. coming on for an injured teammate and was awesome. And I know you guys are both, I think, pretty high on him.

I know I'm not mistaken about Marcus. I'm pretty sure I'm not mistaken about Matt. Yeah, you're not mistaken. Okay. So needless to say, he's not in this camp, even though he is age eligible. Neither are several other good players. So I think what we've got to do here is, one, identify who from this current roster is actually exciting.

Two, talk about who the actual Best 11 is. from this age group, and then three, talk about who could actually end up playing at the World Cup, who would get released in the fall and end up playing in the World Cup. So is that sort of that rough framework sound all right to you guys? Sounds good. I need vigorous affirmation. No, I'm just kidding. All right.

Let me read the current roster off. We're not going to talk about everybody or even most of these guys, I don't think, but let's give them their due. They're in a U-20 national team camp. So the goalkeepers are Adam Bodry from the Colorado Rapids and Gavin Beavers from Real Salt Lake. I think Beavers is, you know, he's gotten a lot of minutes this year. Defenders are, and this is a, I mean, these are a lot of names that are not, I have to be honest, not that familiar to me.

But Freddie Anderson from Stoke City. Luca Bombino from L.AFC. Grayson-Datoni, Byron Munich. Aidan Harangi, Eindrach Frankfurt, Ethan Kohler from Verde Bremen, Drew Murray from Freiburg, Nolan Norris from FC Dallas, Owen Prestus from Columbus Crew, and Chibweke-Ukai-Egbu from the Sacramento Republic. The midfielders are Matthew Corcoran from the Birmingham Legion, formerly FC Dallas. Taha Habrune from the crew, Darius Lane from Brighton-Hove Albion. Cruz Medina from San Jose, Brian Moyado from L.A.F.C., Sergio O'Rejell from Chicago Fire, and then Brooklyn Raines from Houston Dynamo.

And then the forwards are Carol Figaroa, well known to a lot of us from Liverpool Youth System. Caden Glover from St. Louis City. Xavier Gozo from Real Salt Lake and Ruben Ramos, Jr., from the L.A. Galaxy. So, I got to quit talking. Who from this, for all. are the three or four most interesting players. Let's start with Matt. Sure. So you mentioned that there were a bunch of names on this list that you weren't super familiar with.

And, you know, that's to be expected, a lot of names that we're kind of pulling from down the depth chart here. But there's one name on this list that I was unfamiliar with before the roster announcement. That was the Stoke City player, Freddie Anderson, who was a 2006. centerback. He's a product of the Man City Academy. He moved to Stoke City's U-18s in

2023, spent most of this season captaining Stokes U-21s, and scored on his full team debut in the EFL Cup back in like August or September. He's the son of Viv Anderson, a former England International on the men's side. So there's certainly some pedigree there. And when a player of that pedigree pops up, just as a U.S. men's national team prospect, it's always kind of interesting news.

He qualifies in some way through his mother who spent some time in the United States. And yeah, it's just like add a prospect to the list that 20 years old doesn't happen all too often these days. The bad news is that Stokes U21s are dead last in the Premier League 2. and the only game I was able to watch of him before today, before this podcast was their first, Stokes' first U-21 game of the season, which was a 5-0 loss to West Brom. And, oh man, not a great game for our boy Freddy.

Oh, really? Yeah, responsible for, you know, two or three goals and just kind of like looked like a baby giraffe, had that baby giraffe thing going on at centerback, just like the tall, lanky, kid who is trying to make things happen, but more often than not, and that's on the losing side of stuff, and not at all helped by his teammates. But it's early days. Not too often we get a kid just pop up who spent, you know, close 10 years or so in the Man City Academy.

So for me, he's the most interesting player on this list on this roster and the player that I'm most interested in getting some game tape on. Okay. I mean, centerback's the late blooming position generally, so there's hope. Marcus, who you got first? Yeah, that's a good pick. Similar, I think he was, he's kind of one of those rare situations where I think U.S. soccer found out about him before anybody else did, and publicly, I don't think anyone was really aware of him as a dual national. So, yeah, it's always fun to see. And I had a similar experience with the game that I watched when he actually dropped

down to the 18s to play Man City. But he's like 6'5 and he looks like he has some passing ability and that's a pretty good foundation to start from. The guy I'm going to start with is been kind of a rock solid contributor and consistent presence in this team, which is Brooklyn Raines. he's not often I think talked about as a super high-seiling prospect which I think is fair but any person I've talked to around the game that I think has a perspective on prospects that I highly respect all seem to love Brooklyn Raines game he's not super flashy but he's been very good in this cycle for this team and for those that don't know him

he's kind of a box to box can also play as a six he had an incredible goal in the qualifying tournament to sort of save the U-20s I think in the semifinals I'm actually a little bit disappointed he's in the camp

so a lot of reasons why you're seeing B and C maybe even D kind of depth players in this camp is it's out of window. MLS first team preseason has started. And for a lot of our big name prospects that are, you know, playing in Europe, they weren't released.

So this seemed like the year that Houston Dynamo would introduce reins into the starting 11. But the signal that he's here and not at preseason training K. with Houston Dynamo, I think, is a little bit concerning. But I'm still high on him. He may never be a high-impact USMNT player, but I think he's going to be one of the most important players for this team. Is it possible that the reason he's been allowed to come to this camp

is that Houston is just sort of thinking get him in the World Cup shop window? It's possible. I mean, optimistically, I think some teams, you see some. Some MLS clubs value that more. I think Philly's been one, although ironically they released almost no one to both the first team and this camp with a new coach. But yeah, some clubs take that route, whereas others, you know, that all they care about is if you're a, if you're a contributing first team player, we need you here. And so it's hard to say where Houston stands on that because they don't have a ton of youth national team players. but that's the optimistic way to look at it.

But I guess we'll see. Let me give another optimistic nudge here. He got only about 400 minutes or so this past season, but most of that came at the end of the season. Ben Olson not famous for throwing around charity minutes to young people. Well, and Hector Herrera is gone. Cocoa Karaskiya is gone. So that's two-thirds of their midfield gone.

As from what I've seen, I don't think they've brought anybody in high-level to replace them. So that was my reason for thinking this was going to be his year. But, yeah, we'll see. Okay. He also has the coolest name, I think, in the pool. Yeah, it's a pretty good name. And I agree with basically everything Marcus said. He's going to give us work rate and composure in a position where we could,

really use the stability. We know exactly what to expect from him, and that's a good quality in a young central midfielder. And if he does that, if he does the dirty work in midfield, then gives us some playmaking upside like we saw with that volley in the Panama game and qualify in the Conccaf Championship. I'll be happy. Okay. Great.

Yeah, I mean, I'll just say watching him in MLS, he looks totally legitimate as an MLS player. Like he's, you don't look at him and say, oh, he's like, he's a work in progress. I mean,

he's definitely sets a floor on an MLS field. All right, Matt, who's your next one? My next, my next player is going to be Owen Prestes,

a 2006 at the Columbus crew. He's probably going to play right back with this group and right back long term, but he can play left fullback. or right mid or a bunch of places on the pitch really.

He's the son of a former DC United and Columbus crew goalkeeper, Tom Prestus. He's most interesting to me because three or so years ago, Prestus was a guy that was a winger that guys like me and Marcus were removing from our youth national team depth charts. Fast forward a little bit, and they moved him back a little bit to more of like a fullback wingback role. And he was the top U20 player in NextPro last season by goals added in advance stats. So just a big change in his prospects as a prospect by a position move, which is always interesting to see. He plays mostly at right back for the crew.

You could call a right wing back and a 343. But I think he is loved by the advanced stats just because he's such an influential player. a lot of play goes through him. He always makes himself available as an outlet, often the guy to put the final ball into the box. Former winger, of course, so he has that ability to beat his man to get a ball across. Lots to like offball as well, willing defender.

There's certainly work to do in terms of defensive technique. But I think, like projecting into this MLS season that the worth his worth as a playmaker and an option up and down that right hand side is kind of already worth the risk defensively and that he should be

getting some pretty decent MLS minutes this year, hopefully. You can take some minutes from Max Arvston? Yeah, it takes some minutes from good old Max Arfston. All right, that's great. So Owen Prestus right back.

at the crew and then marcus who's your next one good pick hartman um my next one is another england product his name is darius lane he has been he's with brighton hove and albion he's pretty highly regarded uh by people that keep track of the youth game in england um he's a french american he um he um he has been with the kind of U-18 U-19 hybrid group a few times. I think he's in 2007, so

he's two age groups removed from the U-20 level. He's a box-to-box midfielder, good size, good technical foundation, good athleticism, just a really good

profile for a box-to-box midfielder. He struggled a little bit in some of the games I watched with the U.S. team, I'd say about six to nine months ago. But when you watch him with Brighton, in an obviously more comfortable setting for him, he's looked, the part looks really looks like one of the strongest players on his Brighton U-18 team. So he's here because some other guys are not here, but I think that there's going to be some opportunities with people not getting released. the 20 World Cup so I think he's got an opportunity to make an impression and he certainly has the profile that it could elevate into into the senior pool at some at some point so another

exciting dual national playing overseas and one I'm excited to continue to monitor okay all right um well we do one more each because we got to get to the the best 11s for the age group. And then, so Hartman, who's your next one? Okay, so with my next one,

I will take Gavin Beaver's, the Real Salt Lake goalkeeper that has recently been reported as potentially heading to Bronby in this window. So we'll see if that happens. lots to like about Beaver is probably the most has gotten the most MLS minutes of anybody on this roster

professional goalkeeper size, very good shot stopper. He's interesting to me in that he got off to a pretty rocky start in MLS with his first minutes back in, in 2023. He kind of got like significant run and it wasn't always pretty, but he put together a really nice 2024 season and the thing that really stands out about him is his confidence.

He attacks the ball really quick with his decision-making. It's something that you guys recently talked about on the podcast, Bill, is just like having a keeper that just kind of has that commanding presence. Like you feel like he's going to save the ball. You feel like he's going to come off his line and get the ball. And Beavers is one of those players. I think that of all the players on this roster,

he's got the best odds. And they're not great odds, but I think that he has the best odds of like sneaking on to the 2026 roster if he could get a move to Europe and cement himself in a starting role ahead of the tournament. So that's my pick.

Gavin Beavers. Okay. Another very interesting name and good looking young kid. I agree. I have to admit I haven't watched a ton of him this season but as I was like watching some clips from the last

couple of games, I did notice he he seemed, if not completely commanding, at least to have some moral authority out there with his teammates. Yeah, he's not messing around. Who else should we sort of have one eye on from this roster? Since we're doing one more, I'm just going to steal Hartman's last one, which is Carol Figaroa. Because I think he's a familiar name to maybe, you know, most listening or those that follow the youth game. He's the son of Manor Figueroa, Hunter and Legend. He's been at Liverpool for some time.

He's probably one of the few players in this camp that is a likely preferred starting 11 player. So he is one of the big names and one of the big prospects in this group. And he has kind of started to. At the beginning of the U20 cycle, I don't think he was thought of as maybe the top nine option in this group, but he's sort of slowly taken that position. And as you kind of track how the rosters have been shaking out over the last year, you can see that he's become the consistent striker name for the U20 team. The U19 team sort of serves as a B team for this age group.

And so you can kind of see some names fluctuate back and forth between U20 and U19. And in the striker position, Figuero has been one of the constants with U20. So I think it makes sense. I think he was highly underutilized in the Conca Calf Championship, the qualifying tournament. And I think his talent is starting to bring the cream to the top or cream to the top, excuse me. And yeah, I think he's one of the obvious big names to talk about. So what's his situation, what's his situation club-wise?

Like, is he, I know he's played a little bit in the UAFA Youth League, and he's gotten a few appearances in Premier League two, but where's he going to, what's going to happen with him? I mean, he's not going to play for, he's not going to play at Amfield. anytime soon, right? Yeah, I think I actually probably would have liked to see him leave Liverpool this year. I think he's a consistent player for the U-18 team, but they sometimes play him as a winger. They sometimes play him as a striker.

I think if you watch him pretty quickly see that he's probably not a guy that's going to go out wide, face and dribble a bunch of people. He's got the speed to do it, but I'm not sure he has the technical ability to do it. So I think at Liverpool, he's probably seen as just a guy. And a lot of the better 2006s in the England youth setup are now playing Premier League 2 in the U21 league. So the fact that he's playing U-18 as a 2006 isn't like the best. signal. So I would think that in the next year or two, we're probably going to see Figueroa

change clubs. He's the type of player that MLS clubs have been really targeting more lately. American players abroad that are maybe hitting their ceiling at bigger academies. Those are the type of players that MLS clubs are really trying to bring in. So I wouldn't be surprised that there are MLS clubs that are already trying to bring him in on a homegrown contract or a first team contract rather. But yeah, I would expect him to probably move in the next year or two and agree he's at this point not looking like a future and field player. Okay.

Yeah, I think he, and like plainly, speaking plainly, I think he's got some questions to answer. I think that if you watched him as a U-17 show, striker. He was often athletically dominant and you watch him like in his Premier League 2 appearance and it's like man like that

size and speed delta that he had over opposing centerbacks a couple years ago is not quite what it was back then. He's often now one of the smaller players especially into opposing centerbacks and he's quick but more

players can match him for pace than in those U-17 concordments. So the question is that he's going to have to answer, I think, and he could do it in the rest of this year, is if his quickness and hold-up play transfers to the pro level as an asset. And I think it's an open question, but even if the answer is a tentative, yes,

he's the starter for this team and should have a pretty good pro career. It's fun to watch as a U-17, like got shots off quickly. scored some nice goals. We're rooting for them. We're rooting for you, Kroll. Let's take a break and come back and talk about the best 11.

And Best 11 that could actually play at the World Cup. We'll be back in a minute. All right, we're back. Let's move to the Best 11 discussion. And I think we should kind of work through the position groups one by one. Because there is a lot of talent in this age group. It's just that a lot of it isn't in this camp. So why don't we start with goalkeeper?

I think there's kind of a consensus, best goalkeeper. Who is it, Marcus? Yeah, no surprise. It's Diego Cochin from Barcelona. I'm beginning to wonder if we've maybe seen the last of him as the U.S. Youth National Team player for a couple of reasons. I mean, he's starting to get, he's been in the last couple of senior camps with the U.S., I think the last two.

I could be mistaken. It's definitely the last one. clearly Potch and his team see the talent or are trying to integrate him into the group. He's starting now week in and week out for Vars's second team. Playing really well. All their games are doable if anybody's interested, and he's having a really good season. Let me just add real quick, interject. They play in the third tier of Spanish soccer.

So these are actual – these are actual – These are professional games. Soccer games with crowds. Yeah. sometimes like significant crowds. Yeah, and he's having an excellent season. So I think he's making a case to clubs in Spain that he's probably ready to maybe play next year in La Liga 2.

And I don't think Barcelona's super interested or excited to release him to youth national team camps. They kind of never have been. But I think it would be a big shock if he plays in the U-20. World Cup, to be honest, and that's okay. If he's getting a move to, let's say, La Liga 2 next year and getting a chance to start, I think that's obviously way more important. He is without a doubt, in my opinion, the best goalkeeping prospect we have in our pool.

And while he's super young, I don't think he's too far off. So, yeah, he's age eligible. I don't think we're going to see him again in the U-20s. it's just my instinct it would be certainly really cool to have him in the U-20 World Cup and he'd be a big difference maker

but I think he's starting his professional career here very soon could start becoming a real possibility for the senior team in the next year or two can you overtake Matt Turner by or whoever else

by 2026 is that two soon. I'm not going to say it's impossible, but I'd say it's probably unlikely. If he doesn't play in the U-20 World Cup, who does, who do we want to start at the U-20 World Cup? I'd probably say that I would want Beaver as the player we talked about earlier. The other player that's on this roster who's kind of been the other guy getting minutes with this group is Adam Bojury of the Colorado Rapids. Solid all-around player, probably been better for the youth national teams on average than

he has been for his club then from what I've seen. And then the other guys who are maybe in the conversation but aren't rostered are Julian Istone, former FC Dallas and Duke player who is now at Brentford, hasn't gotten off to a great start there, unfortunately. And Andrew Rick, who is probably outside of Cochin and Beavers, the most well-rounded keeper in the group, just good athlete, good hands, good distribution. and it's just a little bit on the smaller side, but is fully capable of stepping in if we need him to.

Okay. Same story with Beaver. Ideally, he's important to Bronbe if that's where he's going. I think he is going there and wouldn't be available, but he would be the next option. Okay. All right, let's do left back. So who's the best left back in the age group?

Hartman. Yeah, I think this is another, a pretty easy call. Keeping in mind that the actual answer to this question is potentially Christian McFarland, who is unfortunately capped high to England for the

time being. So can't have him at the U-20 World Cup, but outside of him, there's an easy answer, and it's a 2007 called Peyton Miller at the New England Revolution. He's just the most complete modern fullback that we've developed domestically since

Wiley. And you could argue that Miller has a lot of those same tools with on ball upside. I think he's the lock starter, if he's available, even though he's playing up almost three years. I believe he's like a November 07. So it's a pretty impressive that it's as easy as it is, I think, for me to make that call, but also not rostered because he's in Rev's preseason. I would question if he's going to be available for the U20 World Cup.

So I think we could have a conversation about who the backups are going to be there and the guys who are more likely to actually play. I think the player that I would, and I'll maybe let Marcus take some of the other guys. But the name that sticks out to me as the potential guy at left back. If Miller is not available is Nolan Norris, the 05 at FC Dallas, he put together an excellent next pro season, playing basically everywhere on the pitch for. Dallas, he played on the left, right, at a few games at centerback. To the type of player, Waki, might play at Stryker, that sort of thing. Not super tall, doesn't have like high-end athletic traits, but has been super dependable in the youth national teams.

And even if he's not a player that I feel great about at left back, he's a player I feel pretty good about in like seven positions. And that's a useful spot to be in. Also kind of sounds like he's the sheriff of Dodge City or something. Well, he's the sheriff of the team. He's the captain. So he's going to play. Maybe that'll be his nickname.

I mean, Miller, I think Miller is among these prospects. He's pretty well known because he's been able to watch him a lot. And he got a couple assists for the revs. He's got all the athleticism he needs, right? I mean, I assume you agree on Miller at left back, Marcus? Yeah, completely. The sort of strange thing is he's played mostly with this group as a winger. So even if he does make, you know, is released, he may not be looked at as a left back on this team. So the winger group's a little thin. And so he might play as a winger, which he did a bit for the U-17s in the World Cup a year or two ago. But yeah, I mean, he turns 18. late this year. He's rumored to be on

the radar of some really big clubs. He's probably going to start for New England. He played like five, six hundred minutes down the stretch for New England last year. He's a big time player. So I love to see him here, but not sure that he will be. Harden saying Nolan Norris is his stop-gap left.

I mean, that's a little unfair. Stopgap's not the right word. His second choice, his realistic call-up, release choice? Yeah, I'd be fine with that. I'd be fine with that. I would probably play Reed Baker Whiting out there.

He plays a ton of left back for Seattle. He's naturally right-footed, but he's shown that he can do it at a decent level. I think he gives you a little bit more upside with the same defensive solidity, so that's probably where I'd go, but I wouldn't be upset with Nolan Norris at all.

RBW's got a little bit of a release complication too, right? if he would be released yeah yeah yeah same same potential issue and these are good problems if we want we want our guys this young to be important to their club so these are good problems to have okay uh right back marcus you start yeah yeah so player that's kind of emerged uh another dual national from england leo du ruhr he's from the blackburn rovers academy which is one of the better academies in England. He just got loaned out to get his kind of first professional gig.

He's been mainly a U-21 player for Blackburn, but I think is very clearly outgrown that level. Got some minutes early in the year for Blackburn in the cup and looked pretty good. Right back's been kind of a problem area for this team, and I've been hoping Duru would get called in to this. team for the last year so and he finally did and I think very quickly looked like the best right

back option we had but he just got loaned out to league two which you know admittedly isn't the highest level but he's a 2005 but I think he's he's got some some potential I think he's right back in general is a thin youth position for the U.S. Duru packs a punch offensively. He's kind of got this, I'd say, like a Reese James profile where he's got a low center of gravity, really strong frame, really can get into the attack quickly, gets into the final third a bunch,

very comfortable overlapping, underlapping, combining with wingers, midfielders. I think he's a pretty exciting prospect The 2005 group isn't a super special class, but I think he's one of the best that we have. And I was kind of hoping for a better loan. But, yeah, I think, again, another player maybe isn't available, but I think could be, and could be one of the better players that we bring to the World Cup. So I'm a bit bullish on Leo Duru, and I think he's a profile of right back.

we don't have a ton of these guys in the pool. So that would be my right back pick. Yeah, so Duru's a super interesting situation as well, kind of like a latecomer. The only game I've seen of him was that chilly game in the October camp. And the first thing that stands out about him is just his combination of athleticism and ball control. It's still, unfortunately, largely the case in American Development Academies, that you have soccer players who are OK athletes and athletes who are.

okay soccer players. And Duru, like, you don't have to watch him for very long to see that he's just got that package of a super high-end athletic ability and ability to control the ball at pace and make good passes and see the field and stuff like that. So it wasn't a whole lot of defending to do in that chili game. I have no idea how good he is on that side of the ball, but just from a prospect profile, he's the most exciting right back, I'd say, in this group. Cool.

Based on that. And, I mean, Barrow FC, maybe they'll release him for the, I mean, he probably won't still be on loan there in the fall. But, yeah. I think Barrow is only like an hour away from Blackburn. So I think that was maybe the thing there. They could kind of keep him in-house, so to speak, by checking in on him. because outside of like

Marcus said it's hard to make sense of the loan otherwise you know Netflix subscribers will be somewhat familiar with League 2 from the Wrexham documentary I guess you mentioned Owen Prestes already Matt so would he be your

second choice right back yeah he would be my second choice the players that have got run over him so far in this cycle have been Ethan Kohler and Aiden Harangy who are rostered here both based out of Germany. Kohler something of a positional question mark but adds a lot in terms of work rate and is certainly a valuable player if the game state calls for that and then Harangi is a little

more positionally settled at right back and play on the left. Flash is talent as a forward passer but just doesn't consistently add that much in possession. So if we're looking to be a team that kind of builds out of the back and has a capable attacker flying down their right-hand side, I think it would have to be Dero or Prestus. Okay. All right. Let's talk centerback.

No key. Well, I don't want to step on you guys here. He's the headline for sure. Yes. Yeah. Were you surprised at how good he looked? I mean, he wasn't perfect or anything, but he was, he looked pretty good in a Bundesliga game against the fifth place team in the table.

Stuttgart or was either of you surprised by that? I think the thing that I was happily surprised by, or just the thing, the only real question mark for me with Nokey is he's a little brazen, right? So he, both on the ball against the ball, he will do usually one to two things a game where you're like, oh, that was kind of a dicey decision, whether it was trying to dribble three guys, which he can do, or a maybe ill-timed tackle that wasn't really called for in terms of like the game state or the position on the field. He just sometimes doesn't make the best decisions. I think in that game, you could see that he was, he started off cautious,

built confidence, and then started to play with with that sort of kind of kind of, kind of of confidence that we typically see from him. So I thought that was a pleasant surprise. That was going to be my question mark. And also my assumption around why a coach might be nervous to play him, especially as a centerback for a team that's fighting relegation, you know, that combination can be a little bit explosive. So if he can figure that part out, if he can have composure at the right times, make good

decisions in terms of when he's going in for challenges, when he's breaking lines. There's really nothing, you know, that he can't do as a centerback. And so I think you saw the talent come through. And I think if he can play with that level of composure, the sky's the limit for him. I can see how brazenness maybe isn't the best combination with a relegation scrap. But man, I wish it would be nice if American soccer development could produce more brazenness at centerback. you got to have that ability to sort of handle the demands of top level soccer it feels like

yeah we could do a two hour to our podcast on that topic alone but that that's what it kind of boils down to is we we we air on caution here yeah easier to to pull back on the tools than to to create them you know right so yeah i mean just kind of a great debut right no no nothing bad to say about the performance it's kind of like an indictment of the rest of our centerback pool that he's like far and away the best centerback prospect

we have in my opinion in the 04 through 07 range he's dude it's crazy there's like no there's that one kid developed in Germany is like that far ahead of everybody

come on yeah and and also it's also worth noting that Germany has continuously deemed him surplus to requirements in their own youth pool. So, like, they seem to be nonplussed, like, just letting him go to the, to the U.S. And it may no longer be that way. And, you know, I'm sure that at some point we're going to have to fight off German interest. But, yeah, man, it's just like, like, I think it's somewhat reflective of the fact that our domestic

centerback production is just probably nowhere near these major. European countries. Talk about a two-hour podcast subject. We got Banks, easily the best centerback in the age group. He's not going to play in the World Cup, probably at all. So who else is there?

And are they any good? Yeah, there's a lot of other names to pick from. None of them, of course, as good as Banks. I think the biggest name of the group and the other player who's, you know, kind of making things have happened recently with a move to Europe is Akamboni, Matai Akamboni,

the Bournemouth player formerly DC United 2006. The thing that's exciting about him is that he has, like he has that prototypical size and physicality. He's left footed. He has plus passing ability. All the things that you really would like to see in a high end centerback prospect. And of course, that's going to draw a lot of attention from clubs

and kind of explains this somewhat puzzling move to Bournemouth where he leaves DC United basically not getting very many minutes and then shows up at Bournemouth and makes a Premier League 18

I think it's fair to say he's a good prospect but still a project he's going to be somewhat reliant on good coaching to teach him up on the tactical side of the game at Bournemouth So it's kind of like that interesting position with a guy who has a lot of tools but doesn't have a history of playing super well where he's both not ready and not that far away. And it's a good thing to have in a lottery ticket and not quite as good a thing to have as a starting centerback in your U20 World Cup roster for your World Cup chances at least.

But I think he's the obvious name to be a starting centerback of the rest of this group. Okay. Yeah, just, I mean, just to add a little bit, he, it's not that he didn't, it's not just that he didn't play that much. He like, he basically got benched for the last two months of the season. And I'm not sure I fully understand that. And that's, I guess that's what makes it, makes the move to Bormouth even more puzzling. But I guess Bormis, like, in an injury crisis. Well, consider, consider the club he was at. He was at D.C. United. I don't think anyone would say there, the most high functioning club or academy.

So did they handle his situation in the best way? Did they make the most out of the talent that they had there? Probably not. And so that's been sort of consistent with young talented players there. I think they're more interested in selling them away than developing them. And so Bordmouth probably spotted an opportunity. And there aren't a lot of, you know, they're just, in global football, there just aren't a lot of guys like Akkenbony. And that's no matter where you are.

And so it's always going to, his profile is always going to be attractive. So now just see if it works out. Okay. All right. I think, I think up the middle, this age group is fairly strong. Especially, I think goalkeeper's centerback is probably strong. than it's been maybe in the years past. So one player that was with the U-20s in the last cycle

that has been called into a couple camps but been pulled back is Josh Winder. He, I think, has been mainly pulled back once because Benfica wanted him to be in first-team training during the FIFA window, which obviously a good opportunity for him. Once might have been an injury. but he's playing pretty well for Benfica B

and I think if you read up on what the fans think of him there or pundits, he's pretty highly regarded, which I found to be a little bit surprising. I'm still a little bit skeptical on Winder's physical profile and where that nets him as a professional. He's a little bit on the slider side. He's a little bit on the not the tallest centerback. he's not the best in space, but he's got a really, really, really good soccer brain,

and he's got a really, really great mentality. And that could take him fairly far. I mean, there are people in the Benfica circles saying he could have a place in the first team in the next year or two. I don't see that potential, but, you know, those are great signs. Again, I don't know if he ever ends up getting released, but he's been called into a few camps and is an option. A Winder, Aconboni, centerback pairing would, I think, be pretty fun to watch. So I'm hoping for it.

But there's some other interesting options as well. That's my thing with Winder. Luvil City product, just not that great of an athlete. Like you said, Benfica B plays in the Portuguese second division right now. So he's got some, he's playing some, at least somewhat credible soccer games. If he's looking good, that's good news. I think we should move on from centerback because we got Freddie Anderson,

you already mentioned him at Matt, the Viv Anderson's son at Stoke City, who's like 6'5 and giraffe-like but can pass. And then let's go to like the number six. Who's going to be the number six? Who's the best number six in this age group? And who do you think will actually be the number six at the World Cup? Just real quickly, just because I think that he's probably going to play a lot. I'd mention Stu Hawkins, the center back from the Seattle Sounders,

just dependable center back with good size, comfortable playing both centerback positions, reads the game really well, helps make up for some of the pace and defensive deficiencies. With some of the other guys maybe in and out of the team, I think he's probably going to be a name that sticks around for the whole cycle and gets a lot of minutes. Okay. But on to the six, in terms of potential starters, I think the two players to think hard about here are Brooklyn Raines, who we talked about earlier, if he falls deeper into that defensive midfielder role. And then the other guy is Pedro Soma, the 06 defensive midfielder who is currently playing for FC Barcelona. a player a lot of guys will a lot of people many will remember from his u 17 cycle just super dependable

like typical you know Spanish able to move the ball around really well uh at a high level um recently you know that barsa move i forget how long ago it was now but he he's playing a good amount um for that barsa team that barsa second team that uh diego cochin is also on. He probably won't be released though, right? Yeah, that's the question. I don't know that it's a super sure thing that he won't be released. I don't know that he's like as central to that team as coaching is, for example.

There's a little bit of him getting moved around the pitch, which is historically not a great sign. you know, like Adrian Gill and Ben Letterman started to get moved around the pitch, and it kind of felt like they became where they were like kind of stars for their varsity youth teams. They kind of felt like they became more like connecting pieces, connecting the really high-level prospects together. And this coaching Soma team certainly has some of those. There's this kid named Huli Fernandez on that team. he's just like a super tiny 10, like you'd be the best player in our youthful immediately type of thing.

But he's new to the team. So, yeah, it's an open question, I guess, if he's going to be released. If he is released, he's probably a starter at the 6th or at the very least getting significant minutes. Yeah, I think he's got a better chance of getting released than coaching for sure. I think he could. It's probable, I would say.

Okay. So Soma Reins, those are the two guys. I mean, does either of you have a strong opinion on one over the other? I think they give you pretty similar outputs. They're both super reliable. Rains might give you a little bit more defensively. Soma probably gives you a little bit more progressing the ball. But yeah, I think they're both really good options.

I think right now Soma's maybe a slightly better player, but I think with our backline in this group is probably going to be able to progress the ball pretty well themselves. And I think just the makeup of the team maybe calls a little bit more for reins as a shield than Soma as a ball progressor. Yeah, that makes sense. Because I think, you know,

I watched Soma's performance in that last game against Cultural Launessa, pretty much like a, not a packed house, but a pretty full stadium over in Leone. like 90 at the 6 looked real slick with the ball like that the interchange I mean it's almost like

Barsa is out there doing a possession exercise Barza athletic you know you get kind of frustrated watching it because like does anybody on this team have any offensive bite are you guys just going to put it just like just going to tap it around the whole time but damn it's very slick I did worry a little bit about the shield part of his game

in this game. No, like the goal wasn't his fault. It was like a weird own goal. It ended as a one-one draw. But there were a couple of chances that the opponent had where he was like maybe a little too slow or maybe a little too not quite locked in enough to the danger that was developing.

So that checks out. Who are the best other center mids? Yeah, the two guys that I think Mitrovich would like to rely on, two of the most experienced guys in the pool could be available are both MLS guys, Ben Ha Kramoski, Niko Shakiris, both have a ton of experience in MLS. Shakiris was in the last U-20 cycle.

Kramashi is with the first team in January camp right now, which is why he's not in this camp, but it seems like it's pretty integrated camp. They both, you know, are likely to have pretty significant roles for their MLS teams. And so it's really going to come down to what we talked about earlier. What are the perspectives of San Jose and Inter Miami on this tournament? Is it about showcasing these talents as players they'd like to sell in the next year or two? Or do they think they're too critical to their team's success and need to be held back? I think it's been admirable that Kramoski has been,

very happy to play U-20 soccer, even though he's gotten some first-team camps. And, but he seems anytime he's played for the U-20s in the last year, he has the typical work rate and kind of hair-on-fire style. And so it would be cool to see these two there. I think maybe Kramoski has a better chance of getting released just because Miami's got a ton of guys. San Jose doesn't have a ton of midfielders, so maybe the new head honcho there, Bruce Arena, would want to keep him around. But yeah, those would be the two guys

that bring a lot of experience to the midfield and would definitely increase the chances of success for this team. But, you know, it's possible both aren't available. Is there a person in the world for whom head honcho fits more directly than who? No, it's a really good point. He's the honcho.

Shakiris, how did you guys feel about his season in 2024? Misused. Yeah. Yeah. It's like he's another player that just flat out seems to be able to hit another gear with the national team shirt on. And I think that probably has more to say about San Jose earthquakes than it does about the healing powers of our national.

professional team program. Okay. Get him receiving the ball and getting the ball from phase two to phase three and making things happen in the final third. I mean, that's what he's great at. And, you know, San Jose had him picking up the ball

from centerbacks and progressing through the middle phase and doing a lot of defending. And that's not his game. So it's just a complete misuse of, I think, of his skill set, probably mainly because they just, had a talent deficiency and they just needed to find the best 11, get the best 11 guys on the field, but it's not what makes him unique.

Yeah. He's also put, you know, since that last World Cup, that last U-20 World Cup, does it seem to you guys like he's put on like three inches and 20 pounds? I mean, he looks like a, he's like a big dude now. There were times, you know, you combine that mullet with, physique and there are points where you're like wait is that kate cowl you know yeah i don't know about you know you think i'm going too far that's maybe a little far but he's certainly bigger than he was um a couple years ago and you know

he's able to throw around that physicality and really make some make himself like a defensive force out of it what we would like him to see being played in which is like that more advanced mid-field role, where he also offers, like, you know, just straight-up plus attributes in his engine and usage rate and his ability to, you know, make things happen offensively as well. So I think there's a lot to be excited about and the question mark, which is unfortunately the case for many a West Coast team in MLS is just if his team is going to play him and utilize him correctly. More so, play him with Dalli teams and utilize

him correctly with San Jose. with San Jose. Right, right, right, right. Okay, so Kramoski and Shakiris are the two top, like, sort of eights, I guess we would say, but Shakira's maybe not released. Who's likely to be the,

I mean, they might both not be released, but who would, let's just go with one more player who might if they're not really, one of them isn't released, would be the replacement. Marcus. I would say it's probably Taha Habroun from Columbus

Crew. His highs with the national team have been really high, but then he's had some disappointing performances as well, but he's had some games where he's looked dominant. He's kind of a, I'd say, almost similar profile to Shakiris, like great engine,

great ball progressor, tricky in combination, like good combination instincts, and also has what we like to call the final third gene, like makes good decisions in the final third. So he's going to be there. I think he would be comfortably slotted into one of the midfield positions. And not sure his time has yet come for Columbus crew could be maybe the second half of the season, not sure.

But he'd be my pick. Yeah, I think that's a good call. You know, pound for pound, the most insurmount. the most incisive passer in the whole team, perhaps, the best forward passer in and around zone 14 that we have in the age group. It's a great skill set to have, and whether or not he plays 100 or 900 minutes the rest of this cycle is just going to come down to how we want to balance the midfield

and whether we can get away with him as innate when he's a work in progress off the ball. Yeah. he's also kind of physically limited right I wouldn't call him a great athlete but okay he's like limited per se I think that he could

he could probably get there to like at a level movement isn't necessarily the issue but probably strength and like pitch controls maybe more of the issue he might get pushed around a little bit okay all right we got wingers and striker to cover

now. Why couldn't we see Kavin Sullivan in this camp? Not in this camp, but on this roster. Maybe the bigger question is why couldn't we see Matisse Albert in this camp? But yeah, Kevin too. I mean, maybe it could happen by the time we get there and guys who may not be available, who knows. Well, all right. So who's your left wing? Yeah. I think it's kind of crazy we've gone, however long we've gone in this podcast, and we haven't mentioned Cole Campbell's name yet. Because there are three players in this age group that are serious, potential USM&T players, in my opinion.

That's Nokey Banks, Diego Cochin, and I think Cole Campbell's the third. We luckily all three play positions where we need help on the first team, centerback, goalkeeper, and right wing. Cole Campbell is a left-footed right-winger with loads of pace, technical ability. He, I have to be honest, I think two years ago, I wouldn't have thought of him in this light,

but it was about right when he decided to switch to the U.S. from Iceland, he just hit a whole other gear. And I don't think they're, related. They're definitely not related, but that just is kind of the way the timeline shaked out. He just started becoming that dude on the Unite teams for Dortmund, and then this year, it started to look like one of Dortmund's best prospects, which is a big deal. He's a squad player right now for the first team and a starter for their second team, which

plays in the third tier in Germany. He looks totally comfortable in the third tier in Germany. didn't have the debut that Nokey Banks had, I think looked a little bit out of place when he has played for Dortmund. He's probably their fifth winger on the death chart right now, which could then change if they bring people in in the January window. But I think Cole Campbell is a super exciting prospect. And another player that may not play again for this team, but plays a position and is the profile player we could really use on. the senior team and is someone, I think, to be to be quite excited about. So I'd be my right winger. Sorry, I skipped over the left winger.

We can get there. That's okay. We can start with right wing. That's fine. He's kind of like, I made this comparison on the podcast a couple months ago, kind of like a Baca Yoko type where he just like, he's got a really strong left foot, a lot of a lot of strength and speed, and he just cuts in and wants to hit that left-footed shot?

I think he's more of a playmaker than Bacchi... I think Bacchiajoko has literally... He's got one option. He's cutting in on his left, and he's looking to fire. I think Campbell has some experience playing as a 10, and you can see that a little bit in his game. I think he's become more of a dribbler the last couple of years. But I think he's got a little bit more playmaking.

to his game. Yeah, that's my opinion. It's just so hard to tell what he's, you know, his appearances for the first team are like six minutes and three touches, and it's like hard to tell what's going on. And I'm not able to watch those second team games.

The thing to know here is that he just, he has tremendous athletic ability, gets up and down the field really well, even, you know, with the ball, at pace, at sprint speed. And then he combines that with an ability to get to the endline and deliver a pretty good cross into the box and the cut inside and could take a shot, but more often make things happen in terms of setting up a teammate to take a shot or make the pass before the pass.

Yeah, like Marcus said, it's kind of like a turnaround as well where like you go back like two years and the chatter and the B-Vubbe prospect sphere was like, well, let's see what he looks like at fullback. Well, like, well, he'll, maybe he'll work out there. And like, that's kind of like, that's often like the death knell of a high level prospect. So let's, well, let's try them at fullback. It's not often what you want to hear. And he's just kind of like in another gear, um, both in terms of like his general incisive.

but also it seems like athletically he maybe came into his own a little more. So yeah, I mean, he's an exciting player. And again, like, talk about the No Kai Banks and the centerback situation. Campbell's really the equally, like if we were talking specifically about this age group, like 05s and 06s, to me he's far and away the most, the best wing prospect. that we have okay well the other one is berkimos right at charlotte yeah burkimos is a great prospect he's going to play in this group probably he's a 2008 we're going down oh yeah that's right that's right my bad age group um and he'll be one of the younger guys in the next u20 cycle if he if he plays in it

Berkmos is super talented. Playing him in this group is asking a lot, but we kind of have to have to do it because, you know, there are some other good players here. Kristen Fletcher is probably going to play a lot of minutes. Guys like CJ Only and Luke Brennan and David Vasquez, who are kind of like those attacking mid-wing tweeners

that we are. sometimes produce both at Philadelphia, both teammates of Kevin Sullivan on their MLS Next Protein. And like we have Surgeon Goma. He's a good player for the Red Bulls if when he's healthy

Bryce Jameson like an elite physical winger at Orange County. These are all names in that are in the correct age group but none of them like are it might be mean to say none of them are like true difference makers but

they're not the level of winger that for me at least that you would hope to see be the top names that you're in your u20 group so marcus maybe you can respond to this berkimos is gonna probably be on the roster for the world cup and is probably the best winger right the best left winger i i don't know if i'd go as far to say probably they've sort of dialed him back. He hasn't been with the U-20s in the last few camps. He's been with the sort of B-te-te-team, the U-19s. It's all probably going to depend on who gets released, of course. But I've actually, I've been hearing that they're considering him, playing him with the U-7 teams, who also have a World Cup coming up. And he's age-eligible, obviously, for that, but hasn't

played with that age group really since, he hasn't played in his own age group since he started, like really at the U-15 level. Okay. So he could play for the U-20s like he did in qualifiers. He probably should. He could also play for the U-17s. I have this feeling that the U-17 group looks pretty special and it could be pretty special.

And so they may see an opportunity to bring the Matisse Alberts to Kavana, Berthumas, Julian Hall. Like those are four incredibly talented wingers that they could they could bring to that tournament and they maybe decide to do that instead. So we'll see. But it'd be great to have him here. Okay. So Campbell, the best winger. Berkimos maybe play, will play in his correct age group.

But if he does play with the U-20s, he probably starts. But Campbell won't be released, right? So it'll be Christian Fletcher. Probably. I think Campbell's kind of in a similar boat where he's probably going somewhere else next year and what happens there is probably going to determine his availability, but he probably won't be available. How's Fletcher looking?

Because he's at Nottingham Forest now. Is he just disappearing into the black hole of the Midlands? I haven't seen any of his forest games. They're hard to, they're hard to track. But I don't think he's starting regularly, which is, I think, pretty concerning. So I don't know that it's going well,

and I don't know if DC's planning to... He's on loan, so I don't know if DC's planning to bring him back or not. Yeah, I also haven't seen him since he moved to forest. He's just a guy who, I think, has to be in the conversation for the pool just based off of skill set, even if he's, you know, kind of disappointingly, still doesn't seem to be putting it together, at least to,

in terms of getting significant run at Forest. All right. And finally, Stryker, we talked about Figueroa, kind of at length at the beginning of the show. He's in this camp. If not him, then who? So, I mean, there's a few options here. The player with Figueroa that has gotten,

significant run with this team, particularly early in the cycle, was Marcus Zambrano. He's a former union kid that left for Benfica a couple years ago. It was something of a odd transfer, I thought at the time, just because Philly is so good at pushing kids through their academy, and Portugal is just a rough spot to be a youth prospect. It's just, again, like England, just so many good kids in some of those academy. So he moved to Victoria away from Benfica a little while ago now. And I've only seen him play for the U-20s for our team since he's left. And he's been reliable for us, especially in games against bunker teams where his trickiness on ball and ability to move the ball comes into play more often.

I won't be I'll be you know like I think he's a fine player as a starter like not the most gifted athlete in the world I would say a little a little stiff but he's capable if not a high end player

for this group and then we have a bunch of kids behind him that I think are in the wilderness of Europe so to speak in Aiden Doch at Coventry called into U-20 camp last October but was called

into the U-19 camp in November when the U-20s also had a camp in November so kind of something of a demotion there so not a great sign only seen highlights of him so I don't know Mark it has you seen a lot of tape of Aiden A little bit I think he's comparable

to Zambrano like not the most physically gifted but can combine, can do the hold-up job. So I think one of those two would be serviceable. And then you got just a bunch of 2007s that they've cycled in to kind of take up camp spots that they may go to if their guy's not available. So I think it's Figueroa and then a lot of guys that might be there. Okay.

the top name of that 07 group that Marcus mentioned is probably Caden Glover who is a pretty phenomenal academy goal scorer in MLS Next that has showed recently that he's capable of scoring a next pro also kind of a bit of an awkward athlete as a kid potentially growing into his frame a little bit more from the minutes I've seen from him recently but again, like, he's a pretty good prospect as of right now is not going to do very much for you outside of the penalty box. Okay.

Let's just real quick, I want to clarify a couple things. If it's talking best 11, not who's going to be released and all that. If it's between Akamboni and Winder, which one do you choose at centerback? I'd probably take Akimboni. Yeah, same. Okay. And then if it's between Raines and Soma at defensive midfield, best 11, who do you choose? Yeah, Marcus takes Soma. I think I would lean Rains. And I think it's a coin flip, really. I think it just comes down to who the players around them are and would fit better. and if you want to bring the best

if you want to bring Cole Campbell obviously you want to bring Cole Campbell on the right wing if you want to bring the best possible left wing who is age eligible to a game who do you bring this is probably the hardest question in terms of the team at the best 11 and

and in terms of roster construction I think answering the question as you asked it the answer is Burkamas Bertramas but I think like Marcus alluded to earlier, as has been done in this cycle. And in, for example, the France game that we won,

there's something to be said about playing somebody like Norris at left back and moving Peyton Miller up to left wing if you're trying to play your best 11. Okay. Hey, we got to get going. I got to get these kids off to school. You got to get to work, Matt. You got to enjoy Hamburg, Marcus. Yeah, serious business.

I appreciate you guys doing this a lot. I think the listeners will appreciate it too. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll see you.