Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #567: State of the U17 player pool with Hartman and Chairez

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Marcus Chairez and Matt Hartman join Belz to discuss the U17s. We start with the roster for U17 World Cup qualifying, but really the conversation is much more expansive than that. Who's the best XI in this age group? How does it stack up with past classes? How is MLS doing at running elite youth development in America since US Soccer abdicated responsibility? How good are Cavan Sullivan and Mathis Albert, really? Those questions and many more discussed at length. Check out Marcus's work at the U.S. Soccer Collective, which has become an indispensable source on soccer prospects from the USA.Twitter: https://x.com/USSoccerCollWebsite: https://www.ussoccercollective.com/And here's Matt's Twitter: https://x.com/MattSHartman Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff Podcast where we talk about U.S. soccer. Hey, everybody, we got Marcus and Matt back again. Really grateful for that. That is Marcus Cherez and Matt Hartman. Check out the U.S. Soccer Collective, Marcus's website for extensive rankings of prospects by birth year. I'll put the link in the show notes, and I'll put both of their Twitter accounts there as well.

How are you, fellas? Marcus, how are you doing? I'm good. And, you know, Hartman posts maybe once or something. twice a year, but when he does, it's gold. So I would still recommend the follow, because when you do see it come through, it's usually right on the money.

Yeah. Truly a man who just does it for the love of the game, you know? Yes. Yes, definitely. I should probably jump back on Twitter a little bit more often, I think. There's reason to. We've got exciting youth players again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So today we're going to talk about the U-17s, starting next week. the boys are going to try to qualify for the U-17 World Cup, which happens in November in Qatar. They're in a qualifying group with Cuba, St. Kitts and Nevis, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, which, I mean, should be light work.

And if they win their group, they qualify for the World Cup. That's it for the tournament, though, right? I mean, there's no knockouts or anything. Yeah, it's a new format, I think, because the U-17 World Cup is going to, to be an annual event starting this year. And it's going to be expanded to more teams. And so now it's kind of made this event a little less exciting because it's just a group

play. And the groups are, I think, even weaker than they would have been. And so these games are going to be, I think, fairly uneventful or eventful in terms of goals, but not very competitive. Right. But there'll be like eight Conquitaph teams that get into the U17 World Cup now instead of four. And so that's the reasoning for the new format. It's the dry run for the, it's one of the dry runs for a 48 team format, right?

Which is, it's a crazy, I mean, I hadn't really read about it, but it's like totally different, right? And am I correct in, so like, we're in the group with Cuba, St. Kitts and the U.S. Virgin Islands, but it's just first place. That's the first place. Yeah. So I think that's good in a way because if there was a chance for a second place, all of these teams would just bunker against us, right? Just try to prevent the damage. But since they have to beat us, I mean, should at least be something of a soccer game.

Right. Be a little bit open. I think I read this correctly, that the format for the World Cup in November, which I think we can sort of project that will be there. there are going to be four mini tournaments with three groups of four each in each of those tournaments. And they'll have their own group stage and then semifinals and finals to win sort of your mini tournament. And then the four winners of those mini tournaments will be in sort of a true final four for like the championship. Which I'm not sure I don't like.

I'm not sure I hate that format. It's just very different from kind of what we're used to, I think. Yeah, I think it kind of works out in a similar way, but... Right. Yeah, it's interesting. Different path to get there. So I think for our purposes today, you know, there's probably some narrative arc we should get into because it seems my sense is, and you guys can sort of confirm or deny this,

but my sense is this age group, these like 2008s and then a couple of two thousandths, and then a couple of 2009s in the mix are where things kind of start to get fun again for those of us watching youth prospects in the American soccer scene. We've got, you know, Kevin Sullivan already signed by Manchester City and likely to get, I think, quite a few MLS minutes this season. Matisse Albert playing up for the Dorman U-19s as a 15-year-old and I think turning a lot of heads.

Both of those are on the young side for this age group. Can one of you, maybe Matt, but I do want Marcus to say his piece to give us a sense of the arc of sort of quality in the development pipeline. We had some pretty exciting times with like 1998 through 2003 as birth years is kind of my sense. And then things fell off. And now are things starting to pick up, pick back up again? Is that about right? Yeah, I think that's about right. I do think 97 through 2002 was something of a golden age in that we had a high number of,

like we had a number of high-end youth prospects that hit thinking about guys like Pulisic, Weya, Raina, Weston, Tyler Adams, Josh Sargent, and Chris Richards, and not only that, but... Richel Lidema, Alex Mendez. We had, and it's not just that, but it was also that we had a... We had a pretty significant pool of baseline or above baseline players, your haji rights and Aidan Morris's and John Tolkien's of the world. And I do think that 2003 is something of a turning point in that they were to me comparatively disappointing from where they were as youth players.

Our 2003s looked great at U-17 level, and now that they're 21 or 22, I think there's been a lot more floor hitting than ceiling hitting, in that group and I think that that is amplified through the 04 and then 05 and unfortunately the 2006. So I think COVID really set that group back a little bit in a way that was potentially always going to be difficult to overcome. So speaking strictly on domestic output, I think you can argue that 0405-06 is something of a lost generation, though I'm sympathetic to the belief that that's, That was really only the case because we outperformed our baseline in the years before. But all that's the history now.

It's a little early to say, but I think it looks like the 07s are the climb back to baseline. And that this 08 to 09 U17 pool that we're going to talk about today is easily the best U17 age group that we've had since the famously fun way a desk group back in. 2017. And that's not only in elite talent, but also with regard to depth. So I think things are exciting again, but it's too early to say if we're back on the rocket ship that we thought we were on pre-COVID, or if it's just the case that we're regressing to the mean with a couple of those rare unpredictable super prospects lining up in this age group in Albert and Sullivan like we had beforehand with your Pulisic and company. I'd lean towards a to the mean, because I mean, for one reason, one of many reasons being that, I do think that

what we know so far of the 2010s and especially the 2011s makes it sound like there may be not quite up to this 08-09 group, but it's, of course, early to say, overall, I think we're in a slow, inconsistent upward trend in terms of the average talent that we're producing. and that this group today that we're going to talk about is definitely one of the plot points that is bringing that average up. Okay. What do you think, Marcus? Yeah, I really can't disagree with anything Hartman said. One thing I find interesting is heading into this academy season.

A lot of the scouting and town ID people in the academies that I talked to were really high on the 2010s, and they made it. it seemed to me that they would be coming in at a similar level to the 2009s, which I think are our best youth class that we have right now. And I would agree with Hartman that I think they've been a little bit disappointing. Obviously, there's still youth of teens and there's still so much time. But I do think that 07s are kind of a return to a good baseline. I think the tens and 11s are probably going to be something more like that, whereas the 2008s and 2009s are an inflection point up.

I do think my hope is that we don't see a period like 0405-06 again, like the mid-90s where we likely make it very little from those three classes. I think the floor is getting higher from class to class. And I think to Hartman's point, we have deeper pools of decent prospects, but the big challenge still remains that we are struggling to develop blue chip prospects at any sort of consistent rate. I was going to say, you know, leave it to Hartman to already be bearish on the people born in 2010. It's actually really interesting because, from my perspective, because that 2010 class is like arguably the most scouted class in the history of U.S. soccer. because because of COVID and, you know, a lot of teams in the DA kind of in the DA in the

D.A. In MLS Next, moving towards older age groups and away from scouting that young. A lot of teams have kind of been stuck in the scouting the 2010 pool for like a few years now. So I don't think it's, it may be a little too early to be talking about 2011's, but we're in prime 2010 territory, man. Their turn in 15 this year. Yeah, that's true. That's true. It's hard to believe.

What else? Anything else? Yeah, I think we're talking mainly about domestic development right now. But I think that something that needs to be acknowledged and that is consistently a contributor to our talent pipeline, is the pipeline of dual Nats abroad. either born in another country and fully developed in that country, typically in Europe, or moved there at a very young age, we are still consistently, even in that low period, 0405, 06, where the three most promising prospects in that three-year range, all three were primarily developed in Europe.

If you talk about Noki Banks in Germany, Cole Campbell started off at Atlanta United, but moved to Iceland pretty young, I think like I want to say 14 or 15 before moving to Dortmund. And then Diego Cochin, who moved to Barcelona very young from Miami. And this is consistent. I think we see this,

class to class, there's typically three to five players that we find out at some point along the timeline, either young, you know, at the U-14-U-15 time, we know about them or they pop up super late, like has even been happening with the U-20 team. And I think just the nature of kind of the United States culture and broadly expats, abroad, this is still likely going to continue to be a pretty efficient way to gain USMNT level talent. We can't fully rely on that and that our domestic development has to get better, but I think it's fair to say at this point we have enough sample size to know that we're likely going to get a few guys each class that could very well contribute, you know, in some

level. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, it's, I was just watching Eunice Moose's comp from earlier today against Roma in the Cop Italia, and he was like, maybe had like his best game ever as a pro. It was just absolutely bawling out. And I'm like, you know, he obviously comes. So mine is one of those from the 2002 class. And, yeah, it's good, right?

But it is a little bit of an indictment of our domestic pipeline. Isn't it? I mean, at least a little bit. It totally is. Surely is, yeah. Yeah, and it brings to mind, like, back in the Clemsman era in the DA circles when, like, you know, some changes were being made. there was a lot of talk about, like, establishing a repeatable player pathway, was the phrase that would be used, which is, like, we're getting a lot of help from particularly German-born players who are able to come over here and help us.

But if we're ever going to be the program that we want to be, we need to have this domestic, repeatable player pathway. That doesn't even really count, like, your Pulisix where, like, it's just, like, a, like, a situation where he, you know, grew up outside the system. He had, you know, dad basically taught him out of play soccer. Like, we need to put a thing in, a system in place where, like, a kid who's interested in soccer can take these steps and become a high-level pro. We don't have it. We don't have it. We'll even look at the two guys, the two kids who are the most exciting that we're going to talk about tonight, Albert and Sullivan. I mean, Albert is the son of a French, like, you know, multinational.

executive who moved here he and his family moved here like a few months before Albert was born you know and um and Sullivan comes from a family his dad wasn't a pro right but his dad was very serious both of his parents were very serious serious athletes so I mean maybe Kevin Sullivan's an example of a repeatable player pathway yeah I think they both are more so than like

like a strictly, you know, Pulisic situation where he was never really in like a pro academy or, you know, certainly the guys who were in Europe. And I think we're, you know, that's kind of maybe indicative of where we are. We're like,

like you're starting to see some of the signs, but it's definitely been a slower process than I think everybody involved hoped for. I'm just put in my blood, go out and coach U6 soccer, teach him to step on the ball. and master the ball. And maybe we'll get there someday.

Let's get to this roster. So I'm going to read it off, and then we'll go, I don't want to spend a bunch of time talking about players who aren't going to ever play for the national team or aren't likely to. So let's go straight into some questions from listeners right after that. And then we'll go to the best 11s,

and then we'll get out of here, basically. So correct me on any pronunciations, just jump in and do it if I, got something wrong, but it's goalkeepers for this roster are Jack Court Camp from Sporting Casey, William McKay from Real Salt Lake, Owen Pratt from the Galaxy. Defenders, centerbacks Christopher Cups and Ramiz Hamuda. So Cups is from Chicago Fire, Hamuda from the Birmingham Legion. I think they're the two like sort of top centerbacks here. And then other defenders are Jordan Griffin from the Philadelphia Union. Pedro Gimerich is a left back from Orange County, SC,

Enrique Martinez from the LA Galaxy, and then Gio Villa from Real Salt Lake is a right back. And then midfielders are Maximo Carrizo, a lot of people know that name from NYCFC. Helen LeBlanc from the Philadelphia Union, Luca Moisa from Real Salt Lake, Cooper Sanchez from Atlanta United. Cristiano Olivera from the Revs in New England and Jude Terry from L.A.F.C. And then forwards are Chase Adams from the Columbus crew, Lorenzo Cornelius from St. Louis City, SC.

Chance Cowell, Chase's younger brother from San Jose Earthquakes. Jamir Johnson from the Philadelphia Union. Tanner Rosborough from the New York Red Bulls and Axel Uriostigui. Oriostigui from Real Salt Lake Cade Cowell I think he said I just don't want people

coming free of bills But what did I say He was the younger brother of Chase Who's their cousin Okay Boy Chance Chase and Cade

Yeah it's Cade Yeah it's Cade cow for sure El Vacero Some of these guys are going to come up In the later part of our discussion But not all of them And let's be real if we don't qualify for the World Cup

over these opponents in this upcoming tournament, it's a laughable failure. And even if we don't, I don't know, does it even hurt anybody's development? No. Yeah. Just start egos. Yeah, definitely.

Let's take a break real quick. If you want to get the scuff podcast, add free, join the Patreon. The link is in the show notes. And, you know, you get a bunch of other stuff. You get these companion videos that Vince is making on Mondays that go with the Monday review

and there's a lot of other things that go with the Patreon so check it out, links in the show notes and we're going to take a break and come back and take a few listener questions, questions from patrons, which I think are going to be great and then we'll get to like, what's the true best 11 for this age group

and so forth. We'll be back in a second. We're back. Let's start with a question from Jordan, the moderator of the Discord, by the way. Who's the U-17 with the most helium in the past year? Marcus, you go first, please. I'd love to.

Yeah, I mean, outside of Kavana, I think who's the obvious choice, it's got to be Matisse Albert. And, again, maybe a little bit of an indictment on our domestic development. He was always probably a top five, top three player in this class, even when he was at LA Galaxy. But he moved to Dortmund towards the end of last season, and he's really been on a rocket ship since then. He started off at the U-17 level, which was sort of right in his age group, 2008s, 2009,

but moved up to the U-19s really quickly, and he's been super effective and one of the better players on the U-19 team. I think his his youth definitely shows up from time to time, but the people that follow Dortmunds Academy

really closely are saying things as crazy as, you know, he may be like a year away from the first team, which is pretty wild to think about being in 2009 and only 15 at this time.

I think that's a little rich. I'd probably set the over-under at his debut more like a year and a half, maybe towards the end of next year, the beginning of the following season. But he's a player that's also expected to continue to physically develop. I'm not sure he's reached his max physically.

So I think when that happens, along with the training he's getting at Dortmund, he's just going to continue to ascend. So he's, I think rightfully so, he's probably not there yet but I think people are starting to wonder if he should be talked about in kind of the same vein as cabin in terms of

a level of prospect yeah I noticed a couple well Matt do you want to yeah I mean I was sorry to interrupt I was just going to jump in basically say that that's the only choice

it's definitely Albert but if you had to pick one like a second option here I would definitely go Julian Hall the New York Red Bull attacker. Just based on his performance in Next Pro, I think it's safe to say that he has definitely been the best pro of all of the players that we're going to talk about today so far.

He's just like typical Red Bull player, great character, explosive athlete, willing to do the dirty work. Super direct, but he has like a fun change of pace that he throws in there where he's capable of, you know, stopping and playing a pass to a teammate. I think if you wanted to win a full men's national team tomorrow and had to start one of these literal children on the field, I think that Paul would be your guy.

That would be my choice. I buy that. I was going to say one thing I noticed about Matisse is, I guess we can get into him more later, or not, whatever. But one thing I noticed about him is he works really hard on defense too. He works so hard on defense. Yeah, he's got incredible, I think, soccer character and mentality. I mean, he runs like crazy off the ball.

He plays hard against the ball. And I mean, Cavan's kind of the same way. And I think why they're both really unique. They're of the 0.001% talent-wise, but they also play extremely hard. and those type of players are really hard to come by. So in more reason, I think, to believe that, you know, they're going to get the most out of their abilities,

you know, if all the stuff that they can control at least. The interesting, like, differentiator between them, like, though they're both, like, incredibly talented is, like, Kevin is, in some ways really interesting in that he kind of can play on the wing. He could maybe has a future as a 10 or as an 8. So like, you know, and for some prospects, that would be like a negative thing. But for Kevin, it's like, no, he's like a nine, ten out of ten in all of these places.

Whereas Albert is just like a prototypical winger. Like he's a winger through and through. There's very little question about how he projects to the next level. It's super interesting. Yeah. He's all, and you're talking about him maybe developing physically more. I mean, certainly he will to some extent, but will he get a lot bigger? I was like, wait, is he going to be like a Rapha Laosized winger someday, you know?

He could be. His dad's a big guy. I think his dad's like 6-2. So, yeah, he could end up looking a little like Rafa. Because he's already tall. And, I mean, I don't know if he's tall, but he's not like a short winger. And he kind of has a rangy look to him. One little rabbit hole I went down with him is, you know, it seems he was born in South Carolina.

So my thought was like, oh, you know, that's kind of unusual for a top prospect to be born in South Carolina. And then it took me down the rabbit hole of figuring out that his dad works for, or used to work in the auto industry for a big French company that sold parts to, you know, big American auto manufacturers. and that totally tracks with Greenville, South Carolina, which is where the first videos of him show up, playing for like an elite youth club there before they moved to L.A., and he joined the Galaxy. So, you know, can't use Matisse Albert as evidence of, like,

SEC territory going over to soccer. Not quite. It's a little bit more nuanced than that. It's unusual to get top prospects out of South Carolina bills. we've already forgotten about the Jonathan Aman experience. Oh, man. Yeah, so there's two, right? Right.

His dad, Dennis, is going to get a kick out of this. He's a really nice guy. I talked to him from time to time. Oh, really? He's going to love this. Yeah. All right. Hey, Dennis.

Hope you're doing well. Okay, next question comes from Bill Middleton. Great friend of the podcast. I'm going to rephrase it slightly. He says, what have you liked or disliked about the changes that have been made since U.S. Soccer shuttered the Development Academy. Matt, why don't you go ahead? This one's tailor-made for Matt.

Yeah, so for the most part, on like an operational basis, like, you know, kids showing up to fields and playing games. MLS Next is run similarly to the DA, and the fixtures are mostly the same, and the schedule is mostly the same. there have definitely been some road bumps to get to this point, but the structure is more or less unchanged from late stage development academy after they made some changes in order to make it so that the MLS teams

played each other more often in 2018. So the big difference here is who's in charge, right? U.S. soccer got out of the business of managing youth soccer during COVID in 2020 and really haven't looked back in any meaningful way. And what I dislike about MLS Next and the changes since the DA have all really kind of stem from that. I don't like that non-MLS academies are essentially second-class citizens in our premier youth soccer league.

You could argue that the Barsa Residential Academy is at all points a top 20 development Academy in the country and they, you know, they only get, they basically outside of flex games only get to play non-MLS academies because of the way that the league is structured. I don't like the fact that MLS academies are de facto in charge of youth national team selection at the younger age groups because U.S. soccer doesn't have any meaningful scouting infrastructure at that age group anymore. I don't like the fact that no changes will happen in youth development that aren't broadly in MLS's best interest because why would they make those changes, right? They run this, they pay for it.

It's all up to them from here on out. I don't know much that has changed for the better. I think you could say that the level of play continues to go up through this period, and you can make an argument that if U.S. soccer were still in charge of it, perhaps there would have been some degradation because you don't have the the same level of admin in charge because they weren't willing to pay for it. I think that the move from a U15 and U17-based system to a U-16 and U-18 system makes more sense for player development that was implemented this year in the academies.

Though I don't love the fact that some teams took that as an opportunity to drop their U-15 age group entirely. Like Portland, RSL did so, for example. So I think we're in as good a places we've ever been, probably on like a talent development standpoint. But I'd probably do a lot differently, but that's easy to say when it's not my money. Yeah. One clarification. I think RSL definitely dropped their U-15s. Portland and Seattle didn't drop theirs.

I know you didn't call it Seattle, but they are not playing in MLS Next, so they're not playing. very high-level competition, but like Portland's U-15s were at the Next Fest showcase in December, but they're not playing regularly in MLS Next, but RSL did drop theirs altogether. Otherwise, yeah, I couldn't agree more with Hartman. I think maybe one thing that's continuing to evolve

is just that I think MLS clubs are, most of them at least are investing more in their academies in terms of infrastructure resources, scouting. So that's improving. But again, it's siloed to MLS and while the rest are sort of scrounging for scraps. So I think that is definitely a huge challenge. Yeah, I mean, it is true. They're the ones funding all of this.

So it's hard to, like, hard to be too critical, I suppose. But I do wish U.S. soccer would be more assertive. Yeah. I mean, it's not even that they're not assertive. They're, like, essentially non-existent in the, like, especially the younger age groups. They just wait until players get to the, basically. Which is, like, I don't really have, like, a criticism of that, like, at the moment. But I do think it's, like, it's.

kind of annoying that like we don't even have the potential for like a like a like a DOS reboot style like US soccer comes in and says this isn't good enough let's do something about it like that that will never happen in this format you know they just don't have the the control to do anything so it's Gary Clibbon's worst nightmare you know right completely all right well um dog on the pitch asks this is a fun question Damien Downs versus Patrick Ajumong who should be in March camp and why? Marcus? Yeah, for me it's Downs.

He's four years younger. I think they're pretty similar profile-wise. They're both most effective running behind back lines and don't do much else that great. But I do think Downs is cleaner on the ball more consistently and probably can do a little bit better job connecting and holding up play, but it's not what he's comfortable doing.

So you got a guy that's four years younger, a German-American, he's probably not at a level that's ever going to touch the German national team, and he may not be willing to concede that yet, but if you can get him in, I think that that would be my choice. Can you tell us what club he plays for for those not?

Yeah, he plays for Cologne in the second, the double Bundesliga, I think as Greg calls it. I literally can't call it anything else now. And I think they're number, I think they're sitting second in the table there.

Okay. All right. So making a promotion push. What about you? Any disagreement, Matt? No, no disagreement. I definitely pick downs as well. I think he's a more interesting player, just like, in terms of

how he would fit into the national team. And there is also the thing where Azamiyang has, like, he has such a specific play style that, I think even without him ever having been in a camp, you kind of know what you're getting with him. But I think, like, the primary reason here is, like, resurrecting that old Greg Velasquez's argument of, like,

we haven't seen him before. He's younger. We don't need him to play. Why not get a look? What do we have to lose? K. Flogood asks, do we have hope of getting any Pulisic-West-tyler-level players in or around this generation,

or at least Haji Zand-Dihas-level pros? Well... Matt, you want to swing at this first? Sure. There's always hope. I mean, you're allowed to hope for anything. So do that. But for me, like, I think I'd start by saying, like,

those are three pretty different levels of player, in my opinion. You have a Pulisic tier, and then you have a Wes Adams tier, and then you have that Zendayaas tier, and that Zendayaas tier, depending on how many tiers are in your pyramid might be a tier lower than the other ones. You mean there might be a tier between Wes and Adams and Zendaz? Yeah. I think it's silly to project anyone to be on the Pulisic level tier. You know, even the best prospects aren't like no sure things.

things or, you know, anything close to shore things to being on that level. Some will come, I'm sure, but that's, you know, getting a Pulisic level player is akin to winning the lottery, right? Like, you never count on it happening. You just kind of project and hope that you get players that hit their ceiling. So I don't know that I would explicitly say that anything is approaching, any of our prospects are approaching pool of sick level. I think the group that we're talking about today in the 08s and 09s have as good a chance as any to produce a pool of sick or two from any class in modern memory, say going back to pool of sick, I guess you could have made an argument for the 02s at the time.

But I think we're at the point where most of the classes that we produce classes being like, you know, for the sake of this conversation, you know, count U17 groups as a class. class the 08s and 09s together. Every class we, classes that we produce will have like one or two Adams level players and five to tens and Deahas level players and some will have more and some will have less and hopefully those numbers start to creep up over time. I think there are some guys that are knocking on the door

that could be at that maybe second tier, that West Tyler level. We're starting to watch the maturation of Nokey Banks at Augsburg. I think he's got that level of talent to be one of the best centerbacks we've had on the U.S. men's national team. I think Diego Cochin has that level of talent. And then maybe a slightly tier below, but I think Cole Gamble has the ability also to be a pretty meaningful contributor on the senior team. And so, you know, these are three guys that are, you know, Banks is knocking on the door. The other two are maybe approaching the door.

So I think there's some hope there. And then there's definitely some dudes in the 2007 to 2009 classes, but they're just a little ways away. Yeah. I mean, neither of you wants to say that Sullivan and Albert are Pulisic-level prospects? Give us a hit. Come on. I guess the way I, when I talk about kind of projecting prospects,

I say that they have the ability to be, right? They have the potential to be. If you look at, I guess, what Pulsick, where he was at their age, you could say, yeah, these guys could reach the same levels if everything goes right, but everything has to go right. You have to make the right club decisions. You have to stay healthy. You have to end up in the right system with the right coach that values you. So there's just, I mean, you've seen even Poulosick level, right, which is probably the best player we've ever produced.

uh probably not probably probably certainly um even at chelsea right he ran into a bunch of issues when things are not you know situated well for him so i think those guys uh have that capability no doubt but you know a lot has to go right for that to that to be the story yeah i mean what i wouldn't give for sullivan to just have an explosive uh spring here in philadelphia you know, really get the, get the juices flowing. Yeah. I think the distinction there and, like, the last thing you said, Bells was that I think you could project a lot of these guys to be some, well, not a lot.

I think you could project two of the, two or so of these guys to be pool sick level prospects, but I think that Freddie Adieu was a pool of sick level prospect, right? It's a different thing to say a pool sick type player or is going to be a pool of sick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so everything has to go right. And so much of it has to do with, like, character, honestly, doesn't it? You know?

Totally. Polisik has just been a relentless person through all this and very resilient. He had setbacks at Chelsea, but he had setbacks at Dortmund, too. And he always, um, he always came back, you know? Josh Warner asks, which kids besides Kavan have the best aura? So I'm not, I'm not familiar with the term bells. Can you explain aura? Oh, man.

Basically, it's like some combination of charisma and attractiveness sort of, you know, confidence. Is that right, Marcus? Yeah, swag, flair. I'm not comfortable getting into the attractiveness of underage men. Yeah, well, it's a way to refer to attractiveness. without saying the word attractive. Okay. Well, let me then answer, and it pains me to say,

but I don't think anyone comes close in the ORA department. Unfortunately, we're not oozing ORA in the youth ranks, and we're not Brazil or France. But I guess a couple of guys, I guess, lightly come to mind. Nympha Bertramas, at least he's shown himself to be a big game player and I sort of equate ORA to that a little bit. I think he's shown the ability

with the U.S. Youth National team to kind of rise up in big games and make big plays. So I'll give him a shout for that. And then I think Julian Hall gives me a little bit of that. He plays with some confidence, with some swag. He's got like, yeah, he's got some. Yeah. Yeah, he's got some aura.

So I think outside of Kavana, I'd give it to Julian Hall. So what percent of aura is just having a cool haircut? No, it's not that. It's more substantive than that, man. Come on. But at least like 10%. As I think about my definition, it really probably is most succinctly defined as just charisma. Don't you think?

Yeah. We need it, though. We need to develop it a bit better. I think that's what we're getting at here. Okay. A couple more questions, and then we'll get to this Best 11. Relaxatorium asks, how substantially do these cohorts tend to change from now until, say, we're seeing the same cohort prepping for the U20 World Cup?

Marcus? Yeah, I didn't go back and do any research here. So this is all just shooting from the hip. But I think it's usually about around 50%. You probably see 50% turnover from the U17 to the U20 World Cup. You've got like your core guys that are at the top end of the roster that typically stay in the pool after a couple of years. And then you've got some early developers that maybe lack a high level of skill.

They start to fade. You've got later developers that had skill, but now they're getting the physical side coming through that emerge and take their places. I think another thing you see from U-17 to U-20, and I tell this to a lot of families that are sort of like frustrated with maybe their kids not getting U-17 looks, the politics start to come out of it a little bit at U-20. when we're talking about U-17 kids, they're all more or less playing at the same level,

aside from maybe your, you know, your cabins, Julian Halls, Matisse Albert. But most kids are playing at the same level. So it allows for politics

and preference to come and play with selections. Once we get to U-20, the kids are naturally separating themselves. You've got kids who are either pros or not. And I think

it takes a little bit of the subjectivity out of the selection process. And so I think you just see better selection processes at U20 because it's more clear. But yeah, the simple answer is I think you see about half of the roster typically turn over.

Okay. I wonder, you know, you mentioned politics. I wonder, you know, such as a fairly even distribution geographically of call-ups in this roster, the one that's going to play in these qualifiers. And there's always a few players from LACC, always a few players from the Galaxy. I don't know how many of them have actually matriculated into, like, serious national team players, you know, these L.A. players. There's always a bunch of them on the youth national teams, but then, like, where do they go?

What happens? I think that you may be hinting at a more, a less, like, less of a problem with the youth national teams and perhaps a problem with the MLS clubs based in the city of Los Angeles. Okay. I mean, it's just like, there's so many on all of these youth national teams. And then, I don't know, the last one, has there been anybody since Alex Mendez who's, like, played significant pro soccer? And people would argue that Alex didn't, but I will cherish those minutes at Vizella for the rest of my life. Haji Wright was there at one point, wasn't he? Yeah, I mean, I think he's probably.

the one. But yeah. I don't know. It's hit me for the first time right now, but I'm on to you. I'm on to you, LA Galaxy, and L.A. F.C. You're saying it's just because they don't have any pathway,

right, man. Yeah. I think, well, let's, here's to Jude Terry breaking the streak. Okay, okay. That would be nice. All right, that's it for questions. What is the best 11 for this age group,

including the 2009s that everybody's so excited about? Let's start with goalkeeper I'll take it Yeah so my preferred goalkeeper I think that there's a couple options here But I think my preferred goalkeeper would be Aiden Stokes The goalkeeper for the New York Red Bulls

He plays He's been basically starting every game For their second team in MLS Next Pro Since like around around about halfway through last season Stokes is a great athlete athlete, super aggressive, off his line, solid distribution. He has the potential to make great saves. Next Pro started as something of a challenge for him, but I felt that he got more comfortable

as the season went on. And for all of our, like, vaunting up this class, I do think that this is potentially one of the weaker positions on the field. So getting a kid in here with pro experience. ready is really the thing that I'd be prioritizing. Okay. Any disagreement there, Marcus? No, I don't think there's like a ton of separation between him and Jack Court

Camp. I'm not super high on this goalkeeping class. I think an interesting note on Stokes is he's probably not here for first team training, but he also could be because this is a cap-tying event, and he's, He's been playing with both Wales and England. He's been invited to England recently, and I think they're interested in bringing him back. So he also just may not be ready to make a decision. So there is a little bit of dual national concern, I guess, there.

All right, left back. Yeah, the two left backs or the two top left backs for me, I think it's pretty close, are the two left backs that are with the team. So Pedro Gimeresh and Jordan Griffin from Philadelphia Union. Gimoresh is the more experienced player. He got a decent amount of minute, I think three or 400 minutes last year at Orange County after moving away from formally discussed L.AFC, so maybe Pedro saw the same things we were seeing.

And Jordan Griffin, I think, might be a higher ceiling player that's starting to emerge at Philadelphia Union. Both, I think, are similar level prospects and I think deserve to be mentioned as the best possible 11. But it's good to see that both are there. Yeah. I think, like, they're a little different in play style, though I generally agree that I kind of view them as kind of the same level of prospect and the same level of player. I think Gimoresh is maybe a little bit further along, like you said, already playing. you know, I guess technically next pro is also pro minutes, but all pro minutes aren't created equal, I guess I'd say.

I mean, USL is a higher level than MLS Next Pro, right? Yeah. Yeah, so at least in terms of like, like the talent might not be technically better, but the level of play is better. It's just older players better, you know, more athletic. Yeah, more physically demanding league for sure, sure. Probably more mentally demanding too, right? Yeah, yeah, these guys are, are,

You know, a lot of the guys in Next Pro are not getting paid and maybe planning to just go to college. USL, I mean, these are these guys' livelihoods. So, yeah, they're taking in a bit more serious, I'd say. Yeah, so Gimerash has looked pretty good in that league, I think. He's a pretty solid two-way left back. Probably a better defender than he is going forward, but there's a lot of on-ball talent there as well. Griffin has a pretty exciting athletic profile from fullback, but he, He's not the best defender right now, though he's a whole lot of fun going forward at times.

So I'd be okay with any of them. At left back, I think, if I had to pick one in a game to win. So if we're truly going best possible, 11, I'd probably give it to Pedro. Okay. He's, from what I could tell, kind of willowy, reasonably technical. To me, he seemed, which is, this is okay, but he seemed like a real work. in progress at the USL level. Like,

but I mean, he's 16, so that's fine. Yeah, him and Hamuda, who we're going to talk about shortly, they were the two youngest guys, I think pretty considerably playing somewhat regularly in USL, so I think that's important context, but...

Yeah. Okay. And I think Gimorish played some wing, too, right? He, uh, I mean at least that's what the stats are shown anyway all right that's that's left back uh centerbacks who's uh who you got as the pairing luckily luckily this is pretty easy i can't really screw this one up i don't think the centerback pairing is uh remiz hamuda from birmingham legion the player that um marcus just talked about and ian james centerback from sporting Kansas City. Umud is a really interesting player, really fun player to watch.

Lots of talent, solid athlete, great height, left-footed. You know that, as we've talked about a couple times on these podcasts, solid athlete with height and left foot, that's like, you know, you're worth a million dollars right there. Right. He's a try stuff guy at centerback, which is interesting. and he has all of the good and the bad that comes with being a try stuff guy at centerback. He's mostly doing it for his club from left back because they're not insane enough to play him at centerback yet at the stage in his development.

But he's definitely a player you like better as a prospect than you do as your starting centerback in a must-win game. But he's got a lot of tools. His ability to make stuff happen with the ball is. is somewhat unique even in the vaunted history of U-17 centerbacks that we have. So he's going to be an exciting player to watch develop, and I'd much rather play him in our 11, even if it comes back to bite us over a maybe less high-ceiling player. Okay.

You know who else was the Tri-Stuff? Academy Centerback. Nokey Banks. true. Yeah. So, you know, they could rein that in. He could rein that in a couple of years. I think at least he'll have it in his tool belt to pull it out.

But, yeah, he did pretty good at left back. So 6-3 centerback playing on an island at left-back, you know, and being able to do okay at USL, I think, was, I guess, speaks to his physical profile, for sure. Yeah, I watched a little bit of him. I was like, I was pretty impressed. And he actually did play a little centerback at the end of the same. season. And yeah, he was maybe a little messy, but...

He's also from sporting Kansas City, and when he was there at the end of games, if they needed a goal, they'd throw him up at Forward 2, which was always fun to see. Yeah, so he's super fun, look forward to watching him through the rest of the cycle. And then the other guy is Ian James, who has, again, very good size. A good athlete. He's more of a, if maybe a little less ambitious, he's more of a sure thing as a passer, which I think will definitely come in handy in this group.

Defense is potentially the thing that needs a little work, but I think for me compared to like, you know, seeing him for the first time at U15, he's one of the more improved players in this whole group, you know, over the last couple of years. And, you know, as time goes by and I, you know, spend more time, like, looking at, you know, specifically centerbacks, like, what went wrong with my, with the guys I thought were going to be pros and vice versa. You know, like, the really important thing is just like, are they trending up or trending down? And for me, Ian James, in the move, as he gets older, has been trending up over the last couple of years. So I'd be starting him next to Amuda. Okay. Let's go right back, Marcus.

Yeah, again, the right back of choice is with the team, Giovia from Real Salt Lake. I guess if you were to talk about true best possible U.S. eligible 11s, you would probably want to bring up a dual knot in England named Wes Okadua, who plays for Wolves. He plays for their U-21 team, but he has made some. first team benches. He's only been with England's youth set up, but he did not appear for their U-17 World Cup qualifications.

And so he's still open. He's not provisionally tied. He's also eligible for Nigeria. But I guess it kind of speaks to the note we talked about above, that there's typically a couple of guys overseas that are pretty big talents, that could play for us. Obviously, England is a pretty difficult squad to break into,

so maybe down the road. He's a Eunice Musa type of situation, or Fuller and Balagan type of situation. But he's not going to be here, and he probably won't be here for the U-17 World Cup. So let's quickly talk about Giovia. I think he's pretty undersized, but his superpowers, his 1-V-1 defense.

He's got about as good of mirroring ability on an island as you'll see domestically here in the United States he really can lock down wingers and talented wingers as well so he and he's not unuseful going forward either he has some ability to contribute in the attack

I guess the only big concern with him is he really hasn't grown much since his U-15 year and it doesn't appear like he's going to be very big but He is quick. He does have some pace. And at right back, it's not, you know, totally required that he's a big guy.

So as long as he, you know, fills out a little bit, he could have a decent pro career. But that would be my right back. Okay. Yeah, good low center of gravity on him. Yeah. I just want to add, I think he's, I think he's capable of playing some real nice passes, you know? Like, he can, he can hit a through ball. He can wait a pass.

Well, I don't know. I don't know enough to say that he's like excellent in combination or anything, but. He's definitely competent, I think, in kind of combination, dribble, passing. I think he can do all those at a pretty good level. Okay. Yeah, he's the easy choice here. You know, just all of the stuff that Marcus said, plus there's not a whole lot of depth behind him at right back in the 08 group. so it would probably take one of the

one of the pretty good 09 right backs jumping up you know to beat him out in this team but I'm fully happy with him with him as our right back in this group and just like Marcus said hope that he fills out a little bit more just he hits the old the elongator machine in the gym

grows a little bit nice yeah okay let's get to the midfield defensive midfielder, I guess this one goes to Hartman. Am I being just right now? Yeah, you're being just. You got right back, right, yeah. You're good.

You're correct. All right. Sweet. So the starting D-Med in the team for me would be Jude Terry. Well, I think right now is actually, you know, and potentially even into the future, maybe projects more as an eight, but he definitely capable of, playing both that six and eight role. I think that he's a pretty complete midfielder.

I see him play mostly as an eight, so it's basically what I'm going to talk about, though everything kind of translates. Pretty rare at U-17 to find a midfielder like Jude Terry who can control a game, dictate the pace of a game. He's, again, a pretty rare thing to find in this age group of midfielder that's high usage. He's high usage, he's high effort. He has plus tools basically across the board. He's not a super fashy player, flashy player on the ball,

which may be a reason why he ends up as a six at the pro level. But I really like his game basically across the board, and he's been one of my top, you know, three to five players in his age group since he's been, you know, since he's been a U-14. So like him. And, of course, the biggest issue for him for me is that, he's with L-AFC.

And that's my big worry. But it should definitely be in the team for this U-17 cycle. Okay. I know from your rankings that you like Terry as well, Marcus. Yeah, I just think he's the cleanest prospect in the 2008 class. For all the reasons, Matt discussed. I think there's just not a lot of weakness in his game. And it seems to be a high character player, too.

So it just, it would be shocking if he didn't end up having a really good career at some level. And I think it's an interesting test case for LASC as well. He's going to be the best academy player they've signed as a homegrown. And so if he can't break through there, then, you know, who's going to? And then I think you have to ask some real questions about what's going on there. But he should be able to. there are positions as a homegrown that are better to break through an MLS because it's not where all the DDP money is spent. And Center Mid is one of those.

So you often see Center Mid's breakthrough from the academy. And so hopefully Jude can be a success story for L.A.F. Yeah. A little easier path for him than it is for Chase Adams, say, at the 9. Yeah, exactly. It's peppy and that's it That's the list of homegrown strikers that have had success You know

That's crazy Yeah Yeah Um You know I guess The minutes I've seen of Terry and MLS Next Pro Are um Like comp,

He seems very competent But not uh You know like not like not imperious And I But I guess I could see how he would be imperious in his age group. Let's get to center, like the more, so we got a, I guess we got an eight and a ten in this lineup.

Who's going to be the eight? I'm going to be the eight. And, yeah, I mean, the front six are where this team gets really fun. And we're doing, we're taking some liberties with positioning to get the best players in here. Sure. And as we should, as we should. As we should. And Hartman talked about this earlier, but, so my eight's going to be Cabin, Sullivan.

he can play lots of different positions right wing 10, 8. He can probably play more, but those are the positions he plays predominantly. But I'm going to ask him to do a little bit of box to box, but mainly be driving forward. And just given some of the other talents that we're going to talk about, choosing to play him as a center mid, but I expect him to be doing lots of damage in the final third. And I assume most know this, but Kavana is in 2009.

So this is the U-17s are predominantly a 2008 age group, but I'd have Kavana playing up, which he's done since he's been eligible for U.S. Youth National Team Soccer. He's always played with this age group. I think we should allow ourselves to get excited about him. That's just my opinion. Yeah, absolutely.

And he's going to play an MLS this year. I think there's no doubt about it. How many starts he gets would probably be determined by how fast he starts, but he's going to place. And I think that's going to be by far the most exciting thing in MLS, especially for U.S. soccer fans. Yeah. He had, what, five goals, three assists in MLS Next Pro last season.

The stories abound. The lore already abounds of his mentality, you know, him yelling at older players. players being like just ultra competitive. And yeah. There's nothing not to like, right? Like we don't need to talk about his

skill set out of length because I feel like everybody who has even a remote interest in U.S. soccer has seen a highlight reel or two. Well, maybe we should a little bit. He's left-footed. He's very tricky. I don't know that he's like, you know, he's not going to like,

turn and burn on you, like, out wide, but he will, he will beat people 1B1. Yeah, he's, he's purely, like, balance and change of pace, you know, just, just, those are his, like, elite athletic traits. And I think if you are going to poke a hole, it's, like, that lack of, like, plus plus athletic ability, but, um, especially if he's going to play where we're going to play him. That's, you know, that's a concern for the wing, basically. you're playing him at the 8, and he grows into that role at the 8. Man, he's a prospect.

You know, he could kind of do it all. And he can, man, he can hit a free kick. He can strike the ball. He can, his passing vision is outstanding. Yep. I think that striking has been the thing that's the most recent development. I think as he's kind of become stronger, yeah he's now

he's now got real striking power and you know a year or two ago that maybe wasn't always the case but I think that's something that's a little that's a new tool that he has

yeah he's always that's interesting he's always been good at striking the ball but like in a he used to hit those like those looping

U14 shots that you see a lot where they just kind of like find their way into the upper corner where now he's like he's really putting his foot through it which is a good development

Which, Pulisic, I would argue Pulisic didn't start really, you know, hitting the cover off the ball until maybe at Chelsea, but maybe not even until Milan, you know? Yeah, it's definitely started to show more at Milan. Remember the first goal he scored at Milan where he, I think, kind of drove at the right side of,

I got, did a little one-two with Giroux and then just like smashed it far corner. I was like, dang. I've never seen him hit a ball like that. There wasn't any loop to it. It's like off rhythm too a little bit. I think he's got everybody. Yeah, it was beautiful.

But yeah, he's got that now. I think more of the driven ball. He's got it all, like we've said. I think the creativity and kind of supreme try stuff mentality, where there's enough intent behind it that his, try stuff works out, you know, probably at a higher rate than others. But yeah, it's just, it's all fun. I think it's great that, you know, our most exciting prospect also brings that sort of

creativity and flair, which we don't always see in our players. So I think that may be the most, the most exciting part about it. Yeah, it's super exciting. So, you know, we'll get, we're going to have. I think David Goss from Soccer Wise on the show next week, and we'll talk a lot about, you know, MLS, and I imagine we'll talk a lot about Kavana. So more to come on him.

Let's do the number 10. Who's that? So the number 10 in this team, I think, we're in agreement, is going to be Maximo Carrizo, who was an attacking midfielder from NYCFC, famously an Argentinian dual national and one of the names that like Kevin famously

have been attached to this age group for a real long time now he's been he was one of the early players that we've kind of viewed as like a top prospect and I think he's still there I think he's still one of the top prospects in this group and it's for the simple reason that there are a few players that you'd rather have the ball at their feet

anywhere on the pitch than Maximo Carrizo. And I don't even necessarily mean that in the context of this team. He's a pretty special problem solver with the ball at his feet. He doesn't turn the ball over. He's positive in his passing. And that's hard to come by in our pool at any level. Size and athletic ability are the concerns. here and he doesn't if you're going to separate him from like if you're going to put him

like be ranking some of these players you're putting cabin at the top and maybe put Maximo in that next tier and it's just because even if even if they are even if you were to concede that they were the same player same level of player with the ball on their feet with the ball at their feet the bar is just higher when you aren't contributing as much off ball and Maximo doesn't isn't necessarily that's that same level of, have that same level of influence over the game when he doesn't have the ball at his feet. But I'd, you know, always back talent

and especially talent on the ball. And Maximo Creezo has a lot of talent with the ball at his feet. Just to make sure I understand what you're saying. Like, Cabin will give you, like, full engine room commitment. Yeah. Off the ball. 100%. Yeah.

And he's also just physically more able. Yeah, okay. They influence the game. And I think, I mean, I think it's a bit unfair to compare the two, but it sort of happens a lot, just because they're both left footer. They're both similar ages and play similar positions. But I think what Carrizo, like, maybe a bit, you know, higher level at, but it's just kind of the way he plays is, like, he is, like, he is as ball secure,

or as you're going to see at this age. Like the ball is absolutely glued to his foot. But he plays a very patient kind of methodical style. And, you know, Kavin can be loose with the ball, but he kind of is always playing with his hair on fire. And so that's going to happen. He's constantly trying to push the game forward, constantly trying to attack.

That's not Maximus style. Maximo's trying to kind of dissect the defense, pick, you know, make a really incisive pass. So they're just different players. It hasn't quite worked when they've played together on this team. They've played together a few times. I don't think they've quite sorted out how to play with one another. And so I'm interested to see if that could change if they get another crack at it at the World Cup.

Okay. Well, it's good to see Maximo back in a U.S. youth national team camp. You know, there was some doubt about that. Left wing. Yeah, left wing is a guy we've talked a lot about already, but maybe we'll get into his game a little bit more, which is Matisse Albert. He's the second 2009 with Kevin Sullivan that we have on this list.

He plays for Baratia Dortmund. He's formerly of the LA Galaxy Academy. He is true out-and-out-wingers, as Matt said earlier. He can play on the left or the right, but I think he's most comfortable on the left. I think he's not the type of winger who's, I wouldn't say he's overly flashy. He's not the guy who's going to give you a thousand stepovers as he's kind of approaching a defender. I think he's change of pace.

I think he reads leverage really well. He uses faints, I think, thoughtfully. He can go left or right. he's comfortable going left and playing across with his left foot, but he's also comfortable faking that left-footed cross and cutting back in his right foot. He strikes the ball incredibly well with both feet. He works hard off the ball, so that's something you don't typically see in Wingers his age, but he has no problem inverting and receiving a ball between the lines on the half turn.

he'll run vertically, he'll underlap, he'll overlap, he'll connect, and then he also works really hard against the ball. So he is going to run back and support his left back. He's going to close space. He's just working all the time, and then he's got the talent to match. So again, he's a big time player. and like we talked about another high character player, so you just love to see it.

The two-footedness of his two-footiness really sticks out in the clips, you know, that you already mentioned, that he can score with either foot and do it with style with either foot and that he has the option of going either way. I'm just sort of repeating stuff you said, but I really want to, I just want to confirm that I see the same thing a lot. Yeah, it's, he more than any player I can remember really has, like, you know, players up age groups that he's playing against, like, defenders just kind of like throwing their hands in the air because it's the two-footedness, his ability to go left, to go right, to throw, like, a change of pace or to like, you know, to throw a ball roll or push the ball forward, the ball forward. but also, like, you know, cut in, make an incisive pass or faint in, go to the end line and put in a good cross.

He just, like, keeps you on your toes as a defender in a way that, you know, very few players' prospects in the history since I've been watching the youth national teams have been able to do. Where it's like, you know, sometimes like, like, take Kate Cowell, for example, right? he just had like a plus plus like I'm going to do this thing and there's nothing you can do about it trait that was exceptional at at U-17 and Albert has some of those traits as well but has that trait as well from time to time but he has like arguably like three of them you know like his his ability his two-footedness and his ability to cut in and pass his ability to get to the end line it's just he's a different animal to deal with if you're a fullback Yeah. Because there are players in the Champions League who can only do one thing.

Sure. And they just do it really well. Right. But, yeah, it's, that's not, you know, it's not a, it's a path to success. If you're a one or two trick pony and you do them at an elite level, you could have a pretty good career. Oh, yeah. He's far from that. Right.

Okay. Yeah. All the work rate stuff does make you think, like, you know, that's the kind of thing that's going to get you on the first. field quickly if you're if you're also dangerous with the ball you know if they if a coach at dormant sees that you're going to come back and help the fullback and you might contribute in the attack you got a you got a good shot I think maybe you can give geo some tips on that at Dortmund oh shot shots fired depressing depressing yeah but true yeah um how about let's do right wing and then striker.

Yeah, I think I'm up. The other wing, which for us is Nymphasha Birchimos from Charlotte FC, maybe people forget that he's eligible for this team. He played in the last U-17 World Cup. As the youngest player, he's played in the U-20 World Cup qualifying, though he hasn't been playing much for the U-20s as of late. I think it's possible he could end up playing in this. I've heard that they're considering it, that he'd be open to it.

He, I guess maybe to just as a point of comparison to Matisse, I think they have some similarities, but they're not the same type of wingers. They are both effective with both feet. They both can pass, cross and strike a ball with their left and right foot. Bertramas is going to be a little bit more of a try to beat you with a couple moves, with pace, with a few stepovers. He's probably not quite as tactically sound attacking in the final third as Matisse. He'll also, I think, put in the effort against the ball, not quite as dynamic off the ball.

But this is still a really high-level prospect, a high-level winger prospect. Again, a more low center of gravity. Winger, he's not going to be, you know, a Rafa Liao profile. He's probably about what he is going to be, like, height-wise at, like, 5'8. But with his pace, with his strength, and I think, you know, with the skills he has on the ball, I think that should be okay. And, yeah, if you could, if you could somehow get this group together, if you can get a Kavana, Carrizo, Matisse and Virtue Moss together at a U-17 World Cup

I think this team could do some damage Yeah it'd be fun to watch So Nimfus had some He's had a bit of a setback already in his career I mean because he right Because he played like the first three matches Of the season for Charlotte And then they basically were like

Thanks but no thanks bro You know you're going back to MLS next pro Is that unfair of me to put it that way? I think I think that Beginning of last season was more of who was available to Charlotte. I don't remember the particulars. I think they either hadn't brought in some DPs yet or had some guys injured. And so it was more of by necessity, not because they're like, all right, we're going to see if he's ready.

Okay. I mean, I'm not saying he was ready. And I'm not saying that his first three games were like, you know, I'm not saying they were a total flop, nor were they like, yeah, he belongs. But I think he's struggled more in NextPro than I would have thought. And I think that if he

doesn't take a pretty significant step forward this year in Next Pro, which is probably where he's going to be playing a lot of his minutes. Charlotte signed, you know, Zaha, and they've got, I think they've spent a lot of money in their attack. So I don't expect him to be a huge

factor in MLS this year. Right. You know, unless injuries happen or anything like that. But I think he's got a, he's definitely got to show that he can be a bit more influential and dominant at Next Pro. He was starting to play better at the end of the year, I will say. Okay. And so hopefully that momentum carries through to this year.

But if it doesn't, I think maybe there's a little bit of a red flag there. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say earlier, and I keep forgetting to say it, is there's really four guys who have significant, like, who have like significant production in MLS Next Pro. And there may be more,

but there are four that I can think of. Sullivan, you know, five goals, three assists. Um, Burkimos six goals. So, you know,

not too bad. And then, um, I guess two more guys that we'll probably talk about here shortly, Julian Hall and Chase Adams. I would also throw Tyler Rossboro into, onto that list. He's, he's, we're not talking about him in the best 11, but he, he is in the, in the group

that's going to the U-17 championship. And, you know, he's, he's maybe not usually productive in terms of, like, score sheet, but he's, like, pretty influential on the game, just like his motor. And he, he does always seem to be open at the backpost, even if the ball's not hitting him for, for the tap-in. Okay. I think that he's, he's probably been, like, you know, in terms of actual

like ability to help your team win a top three player in this group in terms of their output in X pro. Okay. All right. Yes. And he's a nine or is he a winger? The Red Bulls kind of like do like a, you know,

something work into like two, you know, inside forward winger types with him and, and Julian Hall that we're going to talk about in a second. But he could play up top and he could play on the wing, but on the right wing mostly. All right, well, who is our striker for a best 11 in this age group? So it's Julian Hall. I talked about him a little bit earlier.

But yeah, I think with Julian Hall, who, you know, again, he may end up being more of a winger in his pro career, but playing him at center forward here, which he's fully capable of playing just to get the best players onto the, onto the field. And with Hull, really, it's just that he's a difference maker in terms of what he can do just with his athletic ability, you know, both sides of the ball, being able to make you work on defense, make the other team work with the ball, you know, when he doesn't have it.

And then, you know, turnover happens. Something happens. he's just flying in the other direction. So he loves to play super direct, but he's not maybe as limited in his ability to do other things as other Red Bull prospects have been in the past. He's a name that's been around for a while. He is playing extremely well in NextPro,

and has also had a few pretty promising appearances with the full Red Bull team in MLS. Um, so I think he's going to be like a really key player for this group if he doesn't end up being a pretty key player for the Red Bulls, which forces him out of here. And the only real question for him is just does he, is the ceiling, you know, the same level as some of these other guys. But I'm, I'm pretty certain he's going to be a pretty good pro. I mean, in some ways he already is, right? I mean, he scored two goals in MLS. Yeah. He, which were like a, both credible goals, a brave header on a scramble after a corner kick and then a good near post finish after dancing past a defender later in the season.

It seems like, Marcus, I'll let you go in a second, but it seemed like he scored nine goals. It didn't seem like he scored nine goals. He scored nine goals in MLS Next Pro this season, but it seemed like they were in a variety of ways, you know, lots of different kinds of goals. and the other thing I wanted to mention is he wears the name Zuckreski on the back of his jersey. So I'm a little confused. I mean, it seems like they call him Julian Hall on the broadcast too. Well, I guess we should respect the choice because he selected that. But yeah, he has Polish background.

And so it was a big deal, I guess, that Red Bulls wrote, were able to keep him because he's one of the ones with the golden ticket that could have gone to Europe. Europe. So, yeah, I think with Julian, it's just, yeah, what position does he end up? I think right now he's maybe a better winger, but I could see him being a better striker down the line. Kind of like, not to this degree, but like kind of like Marcus Taram. He started off as a winger. He was okay.

Then when he moved to striker, he kind of took off, and I could see that. being similar for Julian Hall. Yeah, I think the floor is probably lower for him at Winger, but, you know, he's not going to be like a 1-V-1 merchant in any, you know, way, shape, or form. So if he's going to be, like, a super high-end player, it's probably going to be, like, a Taram or, like, one of those guys who are just, can hold, can do a lot of everything, but are mostly, you know,

just super dangerous through the middle with their athletic ability. Okay I just wanted to bring up Chase Adams Because he's on this roster And he scored 10 goals in MLS Next Pro You know just a lot of his team winning it in the press And then punishing I like Hall better

I want to be clear but I just want to bring up Adams Because mostly because I want to say he wears number 52 Like a backup linebacker And he kind of moves like one too And looks like one. Right. Like he just came straight out of Canton or Akron. I don't know where he's from.

I'm just making that up. But yeah, he is making an impact in MLS Next Pro, which I think is more than you can say for, you can't say that about everybody on this roster or everybody in this pool. So, yeah. Good on him. Yeah.

He does a lot of stuff. Like, it's particularly the hard stuff. really well, like, you know, like receiving the ball in the 18-yard box under pressure, really good, like, hitting teammates in stride, too. It's something I really appreciate, you know, see that often in the youth ranks. Um, and I, I think that, you know, like, you alluded to, maybe let's put it like a more traditional center-forward build, um, then, then we're used to seeing at U-17, but yeah, like, he'd be,

perfectly capable at center-forward for this. group if we wanted to move on. Let's put it this way. BJ Callahan would actually love Chase Adams on his team. Yeah. That's his guy. That's right. So I get the sense we're not, we don't have to spend much time on this at all, but is there anybody, I mean, Markets, are you thinking like almost everybody here would be

available for the U-17 World Cup? I think it's possible. I think typically the U-17 World Cup is looked at by clubs and kind of clubs both that are releasing players to go and clubs that are going to scout talent. The U-17 World Cup is a big deal. I think it's a bigger deal than the U-20 World Cup typically because at that point a lot of the best players are important first-team players and not in any consideration for a youth tournament. So most clubs are pretty in support of sending players. And you know, you could make a case that guys like Kevin and Julian Hall and even maybe the USL guys like Gimoresh and Hamuda are going to be fairly important players for their first team. But I don't think so critical that there would be release issues.

and I think for Cavan in particular Philadelphia has shown I think time and time again they really value sending players to youth tournaments they rarely ever I can't think of a

recent case where they they block the player from going so so yeah I don't see there being a lot of release issues here and so the question mark is probably whether

Bertramas, who's already played at a U-17 World Cup, decides he wants to do it. Okay. That's probably the biggest question mark and kind of the best 11 that we talked about. There may be guys, like, in the back line that we think are the best 11 players, but may not be the best, you know, the preferred choice from the staff, because there's more room for debate, I think, in the back line. but the front six, I mean, these are all pretty unanimous, you know, top tier prospects. And so I think if they could get these guys there, you're going to see them.

Okay. And if, like, Sullivan or Hall or Albert isn't released, then that is a, more than likely, a wonderful thing. Yeah. Right. And we do have, like, you know, if, for example, like, you know, our preferred centerback isn't available, isn't, you know, the choice. of the staff, like, there's Christopher Cups to come in who, you know, has been with this team forever and is a perfectly reasonable, you know, player to start with this team. Like, if we don't get Kevin, you know, because he's starting for the union, Luca Moisa is a player who's played

basically every game for this, uh, in this cycle with this team going back to U15 and is a perfectly fine eight, you know, replacement. Obviously not the same level, but the team isn't going to fall apart if we have to, you know, like, again, Chase Adams instead of Julian Hall up top. There's some depth here to be excited about as well. Okay. Great. I think we've done it, guys. Any closing thoughts before we get out of here? I think, I think, Bels, you should set an under over for goals scored in the U-17 Concaf Championship by this group against the U.S. version. Yeah, I should. let's set the over under at

they're playing three games. Let's set the over under at 20. Oh, I'm nailing the over on that. Okay. Okay. Pounding the over hard. 25 maybe. This is, this thing's going to be a joke, huh?

Yeah. I mean, really a joke. I haven't studied St. Kitts and Nevis real hard, but I'm willing to bet that, you know, there could be 10 to 12 goals. scored in that game. Yeah. Because it's like the gap between us and St. Kits and Nevis at the senior level is one thing,

but it's really magnified at like the U-17 level, right? 100%. I mean, it's even... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hope those guys have fun, though. Yeah.

It would be a fun experience. Yeah. I don't have anything else. That was a great way to close, Hartman. Yeah, I love it. All right. Hey, thank you so much, fellas. And thanks everybody for listening.

We'll see you. Thank you.