Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #581: Mailbag — Are we bad? Was Poch an upgrade? Should we give up on Gio?

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

Those and lots of other questions came through in voicemail (thank you very much to everyone who sent one!), and Charlie Boehm joins Watke and Belz to respond to them. Others include which two players from the XI vs Panama that we’d cut from this roster, and which two we’d bench, what percentage of blame to assign Poch and the players and Panama, and much more.Here's where you can send us a voice message for future episodes: https://www.speakpipe.com/ScuffedPodcastAnd here's where you can sign up for the Rome trip. We're going! It's on. Lazio-Juve, Roma-Milan, maybe the Coppa Italia final in the middle. Join us if you can: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfp2O1bIr5KNSymt3ayP3ctERCooDo3ADM5Kf_kSHpmr6ITMg/viewform Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff Podcast where we talk about U.S. Soccer. We have a special guest today. He writes for MLS Soccer. Has written for Pro SoccerWire, USSocer Players.com and SoccerNet, among others. He's also in the press corps a standout, actual player of the game of soccer. Put on a bit of a show when we played pickup in Orlando a couple years back. Charles Bome, welcome to Scuffed. How are you?

I'm well. It's an honor to finally get the call, guys. This is the Biggs. I'm finally in the Biggs. This is the Biggs. That's right. You've made it. Charles, I wasn't there to get to see you play. What's your kind of play style? Or if you don't feel comfortable bragging, Adam. Bell's is, he's gassing me up a tad bit. I mean, I'm just, I'm strictly a capable player. Well, but I'm a lefty and I work hard. That's about it. You have a little bit of, I think you have a little bit of sauce.

And I will say that in the press court, it's kind of a low bar to be a standout. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little disappointing. But that we don't have a strong. You're fun to play. Let me put it this way. You're fun to play with.

And I think that actually is kind of a high bar, you know, being someone that combines. I like to ping. Yeah. It's a team game. Let's give it and get it, you know. Waki, I can tell you, like, the thing that sticks out for me about that, it was like on a, it was a, you know, concha, like on an outdoor hard court. And Bells came out to the after and he was like, you, I saw you sit the goalkeeper down. You sat him down. And it was on a shot

that didn't go in. But like, I hit the pump fake and the goalie dropped. And then it's like a defender block the shot or something. But I was like, man, you really do, you really do know ball, Bell. That was impressive. Bell is about stuff like that. I love to see somebody sit a goalkeeper down. Didn't even score. I didn't even score, but he still spotted it. No, man, it's not about the outcome. It's about the process. So our show today is we got, we asked people to put in voice mails, voice memos on speak pipe.

And many of you came through because we got a lot of them probably more than we can answer in one episode. So maybe those with a longer shelf life or those more in Vince's wheelhouse will roll over to Monday or later episodes. but let's start with the first one, which I'll just play without. I was going to say, because if you were going to introduce their names after making them say their names, that would be crazy. Yo, this is Andre from Salt Lake City. My question is, what percentage of blame for, let's say, the Panama loss do you give to each of the following groups of people? One, Pocetino, two, the players from the U.S., and three, the Panama team. I asked this because when the roster was announced, I remember Greg Velasquez said that he, that this was a team, that this was 23 people, that can definitely win the trophy, which is fair, I think it's true.

But with the recap and everything, I feel like people are like, yeah, clearly we didn't play our best players in their best positions. yet also at the same time our players just didn't seem like they were super up for it even though we did create chances. So if you have to assign blame, how would you rank it? So that second part of the question, I guess, is the meat of it. But I think we lay down our percentages. Yeah, first and foremost.

I'm going to give 50% credit Panama because I think it would be disrespectful not to. That's the first thing. How generous of you? Well, I'm just a... I appreciate the competitor, you know, the competition. And I respect them.

Then I'm going to go 15% of the players, and I'm going to go 15% to Pachitino. You can just sit on the fence on that. And then I'm saving 20% for the vagaries of sport, which wasn't one of the categories, but I'm bringing it in. I like that. I'm going to say 20% to Panama.

I guess I don't respect the opponent as much as you do, but, um... 20% to potch. I wish you would have played way at right back. We've said this on the podcast a few times now, before, during, and after the window. But he didn't. And I think we suffered because of that, among other things.

And then 10% for the players and 50% for the vagaries of sport. I just think we got a little bit unlucky. And look, I know people are going to think I'm soft, but we did. So there you go. Yeah, I'm more in the Waki vicinity here. 50% credit goes to Panama. I mean, they have an identity.

They have a way of playing into the U.S. that has worked repeatedly now. It is on the U.S. to figure that out. And I think there's a little bit of re-invention happening across the two coaching staffs, but we can get more into that later, I imagine. And then I've got 30% players, 20% pot. I didn't love the tactical tweaks that he noodled out from the start in a game like that under that setting.

But, you know, we're now in the year 2025 and it's just a little too, I think we're a little too precious sometimes with this so-called golden generation. We talk about, like, oh, the crowd wasn't big enough or like, oh, they were asked, you know, some of them were asked to play new roles. I think you keep it simple and play a four, two, three, one and just beat a team that you supposedly have superior. quality to in almost every position. So I think, you know, Potch has a little bit of culpability there, but too many of the players didn't show up. Yeah. I want to be clear by evening out the blame between players and Potch.

That doesn't mean I think the players are good. I think they're bad soccer players. And here's another thing. I think they need to hear that. I think we need to be really negative towards them. I think that's what's going to motivate them. The grocery store approach. Yeah.

The Juergen Clemsman, butcher shop. Yeah, okay. All right. I mean, Pulisic was terrible. Like, terrible in this window. He didn't do anything well. I hope he hears that. He's probably not going to hear it.

He's not going to hear us. Let's be honest. But I hope he hears that from somebody. What was concerning for me was that he seemed to regress from the semi to the third place game. And you would have expected some. agency there playing Canada, a team that even if you don't want to consider them your rival, they've been extremely annoying to you and wanted it more than them. And I think he had 20 touches against Canada.

Just like, come on. Hard to imagine regressing from that Panama performance too. How much of a downer must it be to go from playing in front of huge crowds in Italian derbies and so forth? fourth and to a third place game against Canada in a empty stadium. Yeah, he scores a goal at the Sancero and the crowd, you know, rushes to the edge of the railing. They can't even contain themselves. They can't restrain themselves. Then he comes to SoFi.

And do they even have pigeons in Los Angeles? I don't know. But he's playing for pigeons. And we can say the player should be able to get up for the shirt. And I'm sure he wants to. it would be physically very difficult with the way the brain works and so forth. If nothing else, it's a dry run for the place

you're going to play two games next year. Yeah. And we look, I mean, you guys have probably seen, I saw in both Brazil and Qatar, like, you can't assume that FIFA's going to sell out every game at a World Cup anymore. It may not be, it's probably going to be mostly full, but, like, yeah, I'm a little over all that.

Like, I get it, but they've dealt with these situations before. All right. Let's do the next question. Here we go. What's up, guys? This is Jorge in the Bay Area. So I just want to know your opinion. If you can choose two players from the starting 11 against Panama,

who would you cut from the roster? Who are two players from the starting 11? You would bench. Thanks. All right. So I'm going to be talking out both sides of my mouth here, because earlier in the year, I did, I believe, draft Tim Rheim first from my five-aside team.

And now I am cutting him. Because if you look at that 11, there aren't good cut options other than testament. And I'm going to count on McKenzie and company to fill in. I don't feel good about it, but I've been forced to cut two players. And I'm benching Pulizek and Waya. This is a short-term benching, Pulisic for overruling the sub, and Wea because I haven't forgiven him for getting Burrhalter fired yet. That's a one game benching.

And then it'll be out of my system. All is forgiven. I actually like to have the... I'm glad I have this opportunity to do this. Yeah, it seems like it solves a lot of problems and one fell swoop. He's going to feel better after it. All right. I'm going to cut Tessman, yep, and Scali.

I'm not a Scali lad, as you all know. And then I'll bench Wes and Turner. my approach is very different than Chris's but I don't know that anybody else needs to be benched except for Wes and and then Turner's just is easy to bench because he gave up a kind of a soft goal so take that Matt this question I literally said yikes when I saw this question but but as I thought about it it's a good question because it pins us down right um it's a great question Jorge I've got I'm cutting scally and Richards um I thought you You know, you can talk about overall performance. You can talk about their big picture place in the squad, which maybe is why you're dropping Ream. But if you talk about talent level and potential to,

and how far short you fell from that in the match, I mean, Chris Richards had a mayor. And I actually saw Ream bailing him out more than once. And then I would, and then Scali just, I don't know what it is, and it's clearly a good player. It just, it's not translating international. level lately. And then I would drop Sargent and Turner.

Again, maybe that's harsh to Sargent because he relies on service and he didn't get a ton of it. But it's just, I think you saw a very different striker in Agamong for the next game, but it did have a little bit of an effect, right? Sometimes it's not the quote unquote best, most talented player who makes a difference at international level. So that's what I got. For some reason, I chose to read this as a permanent benching. I mean, not benching, cut, cut.

like we're basically going to disappear this player. I think that's what a cut is, right? Well, it could be from, well, I guess it's the same. A roster is by its nature fleeting, right? Like the roster will change for the next window. So I think you could probably spin that. But I guess we all basically answered as the World Cup roster. Yeah, I answered it as a permanent disappearance.

That's how I took it. And not that I want to disappear those two players. Anyway, next question. Why don't we switch up the order? Charlie, you go first on this one, all right? Sure. Here we go. Hey, guys.

This is Nick from Kansas City. I just wanted to get your thoughts on this striker situation from this past camp. I feel like I'm hearing a lot of hate from pretty much everybody, except for maybe you guys on Josh Sargent. And a lot of praise for Rajuman. But when I'm watching it, I'm seeing a lot more quality and things the sergeant's doing in comparison,

even on two of the shot attempts that are very similar. Both of them had cutbacks from the right. Sergeant hit his clean towards the back post. Hits a defender, it goes off the upright, a little bit unlucky. Azumann, his ball, he gets cut back from the right. He kicks off his own foot. It goes up over the bar. Much worse quality play.

Same with Ajumon's goal. He gets a cut back on the left from Diego Luna. He puts it under the goalie's legs, but very easily could have been saved. And then Sargent on a very similar position off a rebound, hits his ball into the net. Great position, lots of power. It's offside.

Nothing about that's his fault. Hard to see what people are saying. Ajuman is doing so much better than Sergeant. And it's like the goal that counted is kind of all the people see. And I just wanted to get your guys' thoughts and what you think of Sergeant going forward as well as Ajuwon. Thanks. Charlie.

All right. So this is one of the infuriating things about international soccer, I would say. You know, sometimes you just need different horses for different courses. Sergeant, yes. On paper, I test across multiple metrics, he's older. He's more polished. He is a more well-rounded skill set than Agamong. And again, to repeat, I don't think Sergeant deserves all the blame considering the lack of quality service.

But sometimes international soccer isn't about polished. Sometimes it's about a bull in a china shop or just a big dude or a guy who runs about or someone who can destabilize the opponent or make things happen. And again, there's just more randomization injected into the game. And I think you saw that. And of course, it's frustrating to watch Agamong kind of scuff the best chance that he had in that game aside from the goal. But you see just it had a different effect. And I'd love to see Sargent out there interacting with Luna, right? I mean, Luna is another factor you have to mention here.

He put that goal on a platter for Big Pat. So he's still raw, big upside. I think Potch has described him that way, and I think Will and should continue to explore what he can do and maybe he even makes a move abroad in the coming months. But yeah, it's true. It's not fair to slate Sargent in my view because there's a little bit of snake-bitteness happening.

here with him. I agree. It's to a certain extent unfair in this particular game. And I think just that he hasn't scored, he was always going to get a hard time whenever he doesn't score. But the issue is, I don't think I have the moral character to defend someone who hasn't scored since 2019 for the national team. so I'm going to go hard against Sergeant here

it's disgusting what he did this window he definitely is losing in the court of public opinion that's for sure I agree with what Nick says about the chances of course how could you not the contrast in quality if not outcome

on those two chances is pretty clear sergeant is more technical as Charlie said he's more polished. He's better in the buildup. I think, although Pat's strength, that bull in a china shop quality is real. And he can hold somebody off and collect the ball in a way that Sergeant can't quite. And the one thing Pat does that Josh doesn't is get to that through ball from Wes for that first chance he got against Panama.

one where he drew a save down to the keeper's left. He was magnificent on that play, the way he held that, the way he won that shoulder to shoulder battle. And I don't think Sergeant even gets to that ball or gets a shot off. Now, it wasn't a goal, but it was pretty impressive. I still, I'm not, I have the character to defend Sergeant after not scoring since 2019. I do. I'm a man of incredibly strong character.

That's why I follow, you on this podcast. No, I'm just kidding. I said that tongue and cheek. I think you needed to just go with it there. And I think we'll see if Sergeant keeps getting chances from Potch. The fact he didn't even get a single minute against Canada. Not super promising, but I hope he does.

I hope he keeps getting chances because I think he's a good player. Next question. Podge is fully capable of making a decision. He's just going to play someone. Wait, say that again? I think Potch is capable of just deciding he's not going to play someone like Sergeant. Yeah. Even if it called a marginal decision.

Yeah, I think there's a probably slightly better than 50% chance that he has decided that. And it's just my gut speculation. I mean, he'll be at the Gold Cup and certainly he'll play minutes there, right? I'm backtracking now. I hope so. just too many games this summer. I get in less we get grouped. Big Pat scored,

it's two goals, not three, right? Two goals under Potch so far? Two, yes, I believe so. So if Ballow and Pepey are healthy by the time the gold cup rolls around, I wouldn't count on a sergeant. Well, we got two friendlies, Gold Cup.

I think we'll make the quarters and bow out there, so that's... Did you say bow out there? Yeah. This is what the players need to hear. Yeah. You know, if we slip up in the group stage and finish second, we do probably play Mexico in the quarterfinals.

So this is not totally unrealistic. No, I think we're going to win the group stage. Okay. Even the Gold Cup has been in appeals. Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back.

We've got several more questions to get through. But an announcement, the Rome trip is happening. May 10 to May 18 We're going to Rome Me, Vince, George Qureshi Many others And there are still Spots available on the trip

There are going to be spots all the way up until like, you know, two weeks before If you're willing to buy plane tickets at that point in the game But it's going to be an awesome trip We want to continue to invite people If your plans have changed and you can make it happen Or if like hearing that it's actually happening Does anything for you

Hit the link in the show notes you can get signed up real fast. We'll be back in a minute. We're back. Let's do the next question. Hey, this is Carl calling from Rochester, New York, after the lost of Panama before the Canada match. I've been thinking about the grit and fight

and intensity conversation and how that's what's missing from the team. And I'd love to hear you guys talk about like a grit 11, like an intensity 11. Who's in that squad if everyone in the pool is healthy? And I'm thinking about that because I kind of wonder like does it actually improve the squad? Who's in that 11 that's not already in this A team, in this Nation's League camp?

I think obviously like Anthony, maybe Pepe is the grit striker. Is it Aronson who's a grit winger? And if we do have a full-on grit-fight intensity 11, are we actually a better team? Or are we replacing Tim Wea with a Paul Ariola and turning back the clock

and losing some of the gains we've made with our finesse players and our technique players. Love to hear you guys discuss that. Thanks. I don't think selecting for grit improves our squad much, if at all. I do like the peppy shout as the grit striker. I think that makes a lot of sense. We're going to get Jedi back.

He's our best left back and our grit left back. Testman, who played in this Panama game is not in our Best 11 or our Grit 11, so he's kind of irrelevant here. I think if anybody from the Best 11 loses their Grit 11 based on recent evidence, it's Wes, probably to Mousa, because Geo isn't winning any grit points. And then, I guess my only other point in this sort of rambling answer is Dest is not. really, I don't think any of us really think of him as a grit player. But maybe that's not entirely fair. And he's like, it doesn't matter anyway. He's like far and away, our best right back.

Well, it matters if we're going with our grit 11 because I think, I think he might have to be removed. Well, if he's, in a pure grid, then the pure grid 11 is, that's drop off. His balls. No thanks. We have to drop off. And I do think Luna having bloodied himself in January. Surely he's played his way into the grid 11. Oh, that's true.

That's a good point. So maybe he replaces Wes in the grid 11? That leaves out Muson. He did that mudslide, that famous mudslide, but that was a long time ago now. So, yeah, I think Luna might edge him. I mean, West doesn't get, West is currently out of the grid 11. He's been bench from the grid 11. Yeah.

That's not to say he can't. Okay. Think of the torn jersey. I mean, there's grit there. He also has fought for his starting spot at Juventus for, I don't know. I'm teen. He's capable of grit, but he's not doing it. He didn't do it in this last window.

So the grit 11 is what you've done on the field for the national team. Yeah, I mean, there's a philosophical question, I guess. If there's no grit in evidence, can you live by faith on someone's past? grit. You guys have reminded me, too, that sometimes we use grit as a polite way of saying someone is less talented. Right. But I want to clarify here, like Diego Luna is in the grid 11, right?

He strolls into that team, but that is not because he has an absence of creativity, incision, you know, quality. So, I mean, I think it's not an either or, hopefully. I think Dest is in that category, too, a little bit. You know, he's pretty tough to beat in a, in a one-b-one battle. when he cares about defending when he hones to the task

he can do it sometimes he treats it as a luxury or an afterthought I think when you're punching a ball into the stands I know that it's not directly related to grit I'm just not putting you in the Great 11 Yeah

Maybe just too much In those you have a really good reason for Like He didn't have enough of a reason to do that If it were to send a message To an opponent or something Or the opposing fans If there was some more nastiness to it

that might count toward it, but this is just a bizarre moment. You know, I do like the idea of more specifically valuing these so-called intangibles, hustle, intensity, commitment, but I don't think you can afford to value that over sheer quality in all 11 positions. But it's a fascinating discussion, I think, because grit seems to be ephemeral sometimes, because there was a form of grit that Gio Raina was bringing to this team. And maybe you want to label it something else like Swagger or whatever. But he, if you think about even when he was not playing often at club level,

he would roll up and be the best player. Or I think was it the last Nations League when he comes off the bench and saves them against Jamaica and was just like clearly had the vision and technical quality and also had that sort of bile almost like, like that quality. that he has of just like getting under opponent's skin and starting beef and and just sort of raising the chaotic energy which there was very little of that yeah remember i mean waki you made a video of this back in the day remember when he ran up and thrilled an insult into the ear of a of a was it a honduras player who was laying on the ground pretending that he had been

fouled in the penalty area and he just comes up and he just like runs over and says something really nasty into his ear while he's down on the ground. And where is that bile? He dark-princed a little too close to the sun. Well, we don't need to get into it. But that's where it went. I don't know if anyone else can do that in that manner, in this player pool as we perceive it now. No, you're right.

All right. Next question. Hey, guys. This is Luke from Boston. you know, I've got to say, I was very happy when we hired Potch. Obviously, a better coach than Bear Halter, I think we can say that. I mean, considering he's been to a Champions League final with Tottenham and everything. But, you know, since his Tottenham days, he hasn't exactly ever done well.

And, you know, I'm kind of thinking, not that keeping Bearhalter would have been right, because Bear Halter had to go. But hindsight is 20-20. And looking back, I'm not actually sure if this is really an up. So my question to you first of all is, what do you think the percentage of likelihood is that we actually upgraded on Bear Halter here? Because I'm sorry, Triple G. He was not doing stuff like putting Joe Scali as a stay-at-home left back when you have McKinsey on the bench or putting Jack McGlynn in instead of rain. I actually thought Jack McGlynn did okay against Panama, but you got to throw Raina in there.

I just, you know, I'm not seeing it right now. So I'm just curious how optimistic You guys are And also what the fuck do we do If we crashed out in the Gold Cup Thanks guys love the show Bye Love that energy Luke

I love that's how we want to be ending questions everyone Is that Boston? That was Boston yeah Yeah So Boston Thank you I mean we don't normally allow cursing But if you do it that well

Yeah I'll just silence the part Where you still know What the word is You know That's a shameless listener was fantastic. It was nice.

It was nicely done. All right, what's your answer to the question, Waki? Well, I did my, I must have been in an emotional state when I did these notes. I just have the word downgrade period, and it's in bold. You think POTCH is a downgrade? Yeah, I don't know if I can really defend that. But it's how I feel. At least in Nations League results.

I mean, in arguably. Percipitous. Yeah. I think he's going to figure it out. I think he's going to make an adjustment. I think so, too. But, yeah, so far we have to say he's not an upgrade. Certainly not an upgrade.

And I think, yeah, like you said, on paper, a downgrade. But, you know. On paper and mood, but that may just be what happens when you lose. And we at the beginning were saying there's all the vagaries of sport involved. So, yeah. And don't hear what I'm not saying here. I'm not saying I want Burhalter back. This is me talking.

I don't want Berhalter back. I don't. I think Berhalter should have been fired. But, but yeah. How would you say anything else? What happens if we, well, go ahead, Charlie. You have an answer to this? Yeah, my answer is that Poach is a great coach.

I think we can see that. We can look at his track record. But he's new to the international level. So, and it certainly showed in this window. And so there's inevitably a learning curve. I mean, the greatest coach in the world, quote unquote, right? Even someone like PEP is going to have to adapt to the rhythms of the windows and the conca cathicity that he would encounter in this job.

And then there's just this, there's this wheel reinvention that follows on from that where the new guy or new person so often is looking for things to change or has their own ideas that they arrive with. And I think the Tim Wea eye dominant thing is a great example. Tim Wea was consistently one of the most productive and impactful,

useful players. Typically playing, you know, not always, but usually as a attacking right winger, stretching the pitch, bringing his skill set to that position and opening up space for other people. And so now we have this idea of the eye thing. And like that was a

solution without a problem. And John Mueller did a good video about that this week, about kind of the knock on effects that that seems to have had on the squad and the, the movements and spacing. So that led... Come on, that's malarkey. That whole thing is malarkey. Let's be honest.

But it's, I mean... Right-eye dominant. Everybody's arrived in a new job, and you've, you've probably consciously or unconsciously looked around and tried to figure out, okay, how am I going to show my value here, right? How do I start to help right away? And you've got your notebook of new ideas. And I'm sure he's thinking that, you know, that's one of them.

I hope that he quietly bins that. I really do. But it was also brought up some worrying signs of Yerganish new ageism and sort of a guru throwing stuff at the wall vibes, which I think was unsettling for people who watch this program for a while. There's quite a bit of new ageism going on. He's kind of kept quiet or quieter than he has in the past. he hasn't even really talked about lemons but we know the lemons thing is out there right well he was asked about it just before in the on some british radio show or something

and he was evasive so sorry sorry walkie but like uh i think he kind of stepped on his uh on himself a little bit with the uh with the trump stuff too like getting flat because he's he's still relatively new to the country and the culture and he's got to step in and figure out how to navigate this very murky, convoluted political intrusion into the sport and the next year's turn him in. And, like, I think he probably said some things that maybe he wouldn't have if he had the benefit of hindsight. But what can you do, man?

He's the new guy still. And that's where I get back to, he's having this now. And this could all have been happening a year ago, which is, like, I don't want to get on a soapbox that I've stepped on often over the decade plus now that I've been covering this team and around this team, but like the timing that the Federation applied to the coaching position and the search and the rehire and the like this could, we should be past this learning curve, but the learning curve is still here for Podge. That John Mueller video you mentioned is very good.

It really is, it's pretty compelling, kind of an open and shut case, I think, that we need way out wide right in the attack. and yeah he's a new guy but it does seem it does feel it'd be impossible to prove this but it does feel like he hasn't like fully gotten into the details of the job like knowing the player pool really understanding what is going on you know can't prove it but that's what it feels like to me all right next question hey guys this is sean in las Vegas so my question for you guys is just you know, to zoom out a little bit from this bad window, take a view from 30,000 feet. And what do you think of our, not the national team program, not the youth development,

not the overall pipeline, but just the squad that we've got of 23 or 26 guys, you know, for the World Cup next year. What's your view of it as we are right now 15 months out? I'll start. My view is actually still pretty positive about the, I don't know about the 23, but about the maybe 15 or 16 that are going to play at the World Cup if everybody is healthy. So if you imagine we have Serginio Destback and Jedi and, you know, Baligan and Pepe, I think we can be pretty good.

And, you know, we're still a team that. can make a quarterfinal if we play our cards right get some bounces to go our way we could you know outside chance make it to the semifinals and make history as a program on home soil i think that's the way it's been basically since 2022 and it continues to be that even after the you know sort of disaster of this window um i also don't think potch changes the fact that we're pretty thin with elite talent. That's just is what it is. So if we get some bad luck or some bad injuries for the World Cup or some bad luck in the games, we could lose in the round of 32. I mean, that's totally possible. Germany has gone out in the group in the last 20 years. France has, at least in the last

25 years, something like that. Soccer's a high variance game. The vibe is terrible right now. It could go really badly, but that was always the case. So, I don't know, kind of a boring answer, I think we're I think we'll be all right. It was a wonderful answer, Adam. Thank you. You did that earlier with something you said. You said it was a rambling answer. That wasn't a rambling answer.

Oh, really? It was a great answer both times. Thank you. Thank you. Charlie, what do you think? Short answer is tournament soccer is randomized. Anything can happen. And a longer answer starts with,

World Cup history is littered, and major tournament history is littered with, these teams that that limped their way through qualifying or look downright terrible and then want to win the thing. I think the peak example is, is it Denmark. I want to say it's 92 euros. They didn't even qualify. They were a late invite because I think it was Serbia or Yugoslavia got kicked out or

something like that. Don't quote me here, but they roll up at the last minute and just ball out. So especially when you haven't had, I mean, your qualification process, you can draw a line there. When you don't even have a qualification process like the United States here, I don't think, especially someone like Potch would, will struggle to sort of draw a line and convince his players that everything that happened before is just prologue and nothing matters now except these games. And then you hope that you get a big crowd, you get a little bit of cultural upwelling of support, and guys start to feel like it's really is a special moment

and begin to play beyond what they may normally be capable of, and then maybe you get a hole that's greater than the sum of its parts. So, yeah, still more than a year to go, but I think people like Tabramos who say that time has been wasted are not wrong, per se. And they'll have the motivation of an outside enemy with all of the American fans having turned on them talking about they are, because they are bad. believes in us that that is we do not even you time honored next question hey guys this is michael

from idaho my question's about geo reina um and whether it's time for us to give up on georina ever being a significant contributor to the national team um he's had five really good managers in the last two plus years for a club and country that um have all decided that he's not good enough to be a significant contributor or starter for the team. And, you know, my thoughts are that he's just too slow and has too poor of a work rate to really be trusted on the pitch for significant time for significant games. And you'd have to build a team around him that's going to work around him like they build around a messy or a hames.

But Geo is just not at that level, obviously, of a messy or a hames. So my question is whether we should just give up on Geo ever. actually getting there to where he's a significant part of the national team. No. I don't think we should give up. I also agree with a lot of the question. Right now, the way he's playing, you would have to build around him the way you build around a Hamas or a Messi.

And he's not to that level. But, you know, if he could just get like 25, 30% increase in energy out there, it's probably enough to build around him. but you know there are again rumblings that his energy and training was shocking to poch and his staff um so this time instead of the shocked one being gregg burhalter the shocked one is mauricio pocettino almost you know three years later the irony of this is all very rich i think but um maybe that's a discussion for another time no i don't think we should give up on him but yeah he's he's we gotta be realistic if he doesn't plan or poch it's not because Potch has an MLS bias or because Potch is an idiot is because he can't run or won't run.

I think it's more that he probably can't. If he did suddenly start playing with intensity, that would be a great mystery. Yeah. How that happened and he wasn't doing it before. What do you even do? I hope that happens.

I hope I still have my theory. He's been sandbagging for the past three years. Assuming he isn't sandbagging, what do you even do if your hamstrings are so tender that you're just psychologically incapable of sprinting? Like, well, how do you even solve that? Wouldn't a Concord Calf Nation League finals weekend be the time to push? I mean, you're not going to blow up a, you know, getting hurt now wouldn't have damaged your non-existent, you know, run a form at Dortmund. Right.

So I feel for him because I speak to you with scar tissue in both my hamstrings, and I lost a college season to those injuries, and it really stinks. And I'm sure there is a psychological element. But he's always been a cipher in psychological terms from the jump from when he was an extremely talented 13, 14-year-old kid turning heads in the academy coming up at NYCFC. So the thing is he's so talented. I think he's gotten special status for so long because of that within the U.S. soccer ecosystem that the usual rules didn't apply to him in terms of national team players are supposed to be good and productive for their club teams for a sustained period. And then that earns them the opportunity to show they can do that at the international level.

And he was able to sort of in dribs and drabs like he was defying that conventional wisdom by just being really good. and uniquely good with his skill set for the M&T. But now that's not happening anymore, right? So I would think that Pach's message is something along the lines of start from the basics. Like find a place where you can play, find a way that you can make your body work well enough to do that. Whatever the level is, play games, score goals, make assists for your club, and then that should lead to you being able to sort of go climb the staircase all over again, I'm sure that's, you know, a tough message on some level, but, like, come on. I mean, you've, on the one level he's still got a year on the other. He's, what is he on his third agent? Like, he's changes a change agents at least once, maybe twice in the last couple years. I think he's on his third because didn't he get rid of the super agent who? Yeah. I believe. If one of them is your parent, that one doesn't count. Yeah, you know. So maybe on his fourth. Waki, I'm steering clear.

that one. No, the, but yeah, like, I think he, I think hopefully that's a sign that they realize that what, what's been happening so far is not working. I don't know where he's going to land. Dortman has signaled in the way that big club signaled pretty decisively, I think, without an official statement that his time there is done and they're prepared to take a loss. And, you know, he's just got to get on the field and stay there for a while at whatever level it is. All right. I'm going to skip down a little bit to the, another question. from somebody from Idaho. Hey, this is Allie.

I'm from a small mountain town in Idaho. And I've been hearing people say that this generation of men's team players just doesn't have that grit, doesn't play with that heart or that chip on their shoulder because they've had an easier go of things. They, you know, pay to play means we don't have a ton of guys coming through that have had to really struggle in their childhood or family life. and they got shipped off to Europe in general at an early age and got those big paychecks. And so they just don't have that chip on their shoulder like other generations or the Clint Dempsey's of our past.

And, you know, man, not that that sort of thing doesn't help, but I don't buy it as a reason why you can't play with fight or with pride. You know, that's just, that's not the case. You look at the Michael Jordan documentary. That dude was the most competitive man ever. And he was making up all sort of slights and reasons why he had to destroy his opponent. You don't have to have a tough go of it in life to have that dog in you. It's just not the case. So I don't know.

They need to come up with another talking point because I just don't buy that. Yeah, I agree. Go Allie. She needs a show, man. Yeah, we need more of our players making up. slight against them and and then fueling themselves with those slights. That sounds seems like a really healthy way to live. Remember the man in the mirror?

I was I was in disbel. I was like so be mused at that whole thing. It seems so contrived. But it like in retrospect, doesn't it look a little different? Well, it maybe. That's the thing. That was when they were the underdogs. Right.

Maybe we did have a chip on our shoulder then. Now if they did that, it would feel like jerks, so they're not doing it because they're not jerks. Yeah. Like Panama had just been, had owned them lately. If not that semifinal, like, when? Yeah, I mean, it is, I guess it's at least in American sports, isn't there like plenty of statistics to show that if your elite athletes

disproportionately come from higher income families nowadays? and I don't know if that's true of soccer on a global level, but I assume it's not quite as true, you know, but I guess I'm just saying I agree with Allie that that's like us not having fight because nobody came from like a horrible childhood on our team. It doesn't really hold that much water for me either. Well, I just wanted to- Anyway, even if you had a happy childhood.

Sorry, Bells. I reminded me of a moment from, I think it was Canada's opening goal. And it startled me because watching the play develop, so to Tyler Adams, right, has been sort of the heart or spiritual, you know, foundation of this group for some time now, right? Just being sort of mature and driven beyond his years and natural leadership qualities. And when he's in form, even recently with Bournemouth, he's been what seems to be back to or close to his vest. And then on the opening goal of that third place game, he's, well, he's on his toes, but he's missing. He's ball watching and missing two attackers drift to the penalty spot, three to five yards behind him.

It just isn't shoulder checking enough. and the ball goes past him and leads to a goal. And I remember thinking, it's not that this is not a guy who doesn't hustle. This is not a guy who doesn't want it, who doesn't take responsibility. But there's something, he's making an extremely uncharacteristic error there

with a level of sloppiness and lack of attention to detail that is very unlike him. And I can't just pencil that up to not carrying or not trying. It's like, and there were just those little moments all over the field in these two games. that yeah I mean I think maybe we maybe we need to give the coaching staff more blame than we did earlier for that because when it adds up it's like is that a collective thing or is that circumstantial or what is that?

He needed more help. He needed he needed West to get back with him, maybe Pulisic into the box and help. But yeah, you're right. He was, I saw that clip on your timeline. He doesn't really get in the cover shadow of either player. So I forget who the passer is, but passer comes. could have picked out either one in the box. Buchanan, I think.

Bucannon, I think it was Buchanan. And then, of course, like, similarly on the Panama goal, Ream just kind of lets him shoot over there. You know, he kind of leaves Waterman free, and maybe he could have called Scali down to help out. Maybe he could have slid over to cover. He wasn't really cover anybody in the middle. I mean, it's just a game of tiny little margins like that, but.

Well, and then at large, I thought, I don't know how many U.S. fans are able or willing to watch both games of these doubleheaders, but I ended up watching most of both back to back. And the difference in just the atmosphere, the tempo and the feeling of the two games that the U.S. was not involved in was so dramatically different. It was like, I know we loved Rip on Concafacaff. It is a beautifully flawed, wacky confederation with competitions that take on the same character. But like those, the second half of the doubleheaders were both just vibrant games. Like I was like, this, these are advertisements for this, for this confederation. Like intensity, players getting stuck in, snapping into challenges, like an ebb and a flow. I mean, it was, it was, I was struck by just the difference in tone of the matches.

And I think that's something, again, hard to pin down with specifics. Like, really, really did not reflect well. What the reason is? I mean, isn't it the reason that there are 50,000 rabid fans in the stadium? Because, like, when the U.S. plays Mexico in those games, those are fun as hell, man. And you can tell the U.S. players enjoy it, too. Even though they're playing in front of a hostile crowd, at least it's a crowd. You know?

Like, this is a generational players that played through COVID. But nobody enjoyed that. Think about the COVID games, you know? But they were, they were games where they were bawling out, you know, in a little stadium in Austria next door to a water park, right? You could see the water slides in the camera shots, right? And like, they're still doing their thing. I mean, maybe it is. Maybe I also found myself reconsidering, you know, what's one of the punchlines from 2022 was the vibes guys, right?

and Burrhalter got some stick. Again, I'm not saying without validity for bringing someone like Christian Roldon, who didn't really play but was seen as like a vibes guy. It's like, I kind of understand a little bit. I think it looks a little more defensible in retrospect because certain personalities maybe just bring something to the table. Maybe someone like Dest is around. But again, that's why the Rana situation is even,

that adds another layer of mysticism to the Rana situation, you know, because someone like him is clearly not bringing him. Let's end with one more hot take here. One more. Is it from Idaho? Might be. No, from the other side of the country. This is Micah from Jacksonville, Florida.

I think a player like Landon Donovan would have won us this game, 2-0. No questions asked. But I also feel like we have a lot of fans or maybe even some players that think that the current pool is way better than players like Landon Donovan or Clint Denison. see what are y'all's thoughts on that it's kind of cool to see some of these things people and and qualities of the program that maybe were get taken for granted because they're so they're they're there for so long right like donovan um his national team career was like a an opera almost right there was all this this dramatic peaks and valleys to it but even at his worst. I mean, he was, he, he, he, a club and country were like 50-50 for him, you know,

evenly valued, if not maybe country sometimes ahead, he would, he would leave the galaxy for weeks at a time, right? If he, for, for, for key tournaments or times when he, he was needed. And, um, and I think you have to say, like, we, again, he was a little bit, a little bit underappreciated sometimes because of the, the, the visibility and the microscope. he was under and not going to Europe and all that kind of stuff. But like, you know, this, this take reminded me of there was a moment. I covered them at, I think it was the best year in the program's history still, 2013, when they were just, they were just absolutely punching a hole through the

conquing have qualifying cycle under Yergan. And then they tweaked the squad a little bit and still just looked for outstanding at the Gold Cup that summer. And I think it was a game in Baltimore. I think they were playing El Salvador. and tons of Salvadorans, right? Because there's a big, big community in the DMV area.

And wild game, hot day, daytime game and everything. And it was one of those like trap games, right? And Donovan just bawled. And there was a moment where somebody threw a pair of sunglasses at him. It became a meme back when those were still kind of a young concept. And Donovan's taken a corner kick and someone, a pair of sunglasses is thrown at him. And he picks them up and puts them on. And against the objections of the AR, the AR right next to him is like,

no, no, don't do that. No, what are you doing? And it was just sort of like, Donovan was just down for whatever. I mean, he definitely had low points. 06 is a low point, but like he could embrace the chaos of a moment like that and still put the other team to the sword. And it was really impressive. And again, I think maybe in retrospect it, it was even more so.

Hmm That's a really cool Reminiscence And I think of like how young he was When he scored a You know Some huge goals at the World Cup He was 19 in 2002 right

Yeah And maybe 20 But you know Scoring a Not a game winner But a goal that That secured Our going through to the quarterfinals

Against Mexico He's been He had been He had seen everything At that by the time he was he picked up those sunglasses and put him on you know yeah he and he knew how to get down and dirty as as as it needed to be and and had that that mustard i think that maybe we're lamenting the absence of the paucity of right now and dempsey i mean it's a it's a cliche

at this point but he always tried stuff and uh sometimes it didn't work but a lot of times it did are they better than Pulisic and West McKinney or Pulisic and Tim Wea? I don't know. That's such a hard question. I don't think so.

If you could allow me this to something I come back to over and over again in the M&T discourse is I want to, I hope that maybe some listeners will disagree, but I feel my observations over the years

have been that it's easy to lose side of the fact that everything that a player does at club level matters greatly, right? That's what gets you selected. That is not necessarily what gets you on the field or gets you success with the national team. That is what gets you in the door. And fundamentally, coaches, and I don't think pot should be an exception of this, are going to be, they spend all these months categorizing your scouting and trying to objectify your club performances. But then they're going to, what they see in front of their eyes on the pitch and the training ground and in the national team games is always going to be at the front of their minds. And I think that's human nature and that's that's their job. So, and there's plenty of players

who've been excellent club players who don't translate it at the national team level. Like there's been a lot of those guys and there's been plenty of examples of the opposite where you look at someone and you're like, how is this working, right? But it just does. And I hope people keep that in mind when they look at this group because there's going to be maybe Agamong is like the guy. Maybe he's the one that brings out the best in people around him in a way that for some reason

Sergeant doesn't. I'm not saying that's what can be the case. But this stuff happens all the time at this level. Yeah, that's a good reminder and a good way to, I think, close it out. Thanks everybody for listening. Thank you, Charlie. Much appreciated.

What a pleasure. Pleasure to be here. We'll see you. Well, I have one more that voicemail thing is going to stay open. So, you know, if you're... You can't get to sleep one night and you just have a thought that you need to get out, you leave a message and we will be checking that. Yeah, please do.

Send us more of those. Thanks again for listening. Thank you for doing it. I'm just going to keep interrupting you. It's fine. We'll see you.