Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #589: Andrew Wiebe on sideline reporting Messi, kids to watch in MLS, tryna bring Extra Time back

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Wiebe's a feature and sideline reporter for Major League Soccer, talks about learning the art of sideline reporting which is fascinating. Also discusses Extra Time Radio, the show that got inexplicably binned by the league earlier this year. Good young MLS players, the Sullivan bros, meeting Luca de la Torre's parents, buying boots with Brandon Vazquez and going to a rodeo with Jack McGlynn. Plus lots more.Voicemail www.speakpipe.com/ScuffedPodcast Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff Podcast where we talk about U.S. soccer. Hey, everybody. Our guest today is going to be well known to many of you. He is probably the most tireless and good-natured advocate for a major league soccer in America. Formerly the sports editor of the University Daily Kansen. He went on to host and produce Extra Time Radio for many, many years, also hosts instant replay. And now he's a features and sideline reporter covering MLS on Apple TV, the pride of Wichita, and alumnus of the University of Kansas.

and the star of a very short and compelling film that involves an out-of-control champagne bottle. Andrew Weeby, welcome to scuffed. Oh, wow. It's just an absolute honor to, one, be introduced with such glowing and well-researched vernacular. That, you're going deep. You're going deep.

And I appreciate it. The University of Dayton, Cainz, it appreciates it. Tautown stand up, even though I probably will maybe never return there in my life. It still holds a deep, a deep, healthy place in my upbringing. But, yeah, no, it's great to be here on scuffed. I've been lurking in the Discord for many years now, listening for longer than that. And just hearing you introduce bells and hearing the, I don't even know how to describe it, it's just like a warm blanket that gets pulled over me with your voice.

I'm happy to be here. You really lived up to your good-natured introduction. You know what? If you get that reputation, what a, what a show. it would be to ruin it, just to piss on it, just to be an able. It's a great reputation. It's a great reputation. Hey man, I'm not going to lie.

I'm still stuck on Taatown. You know what? There's many sides of Taatown, Vince. You know, at high school, Andrew could tell you the many different cultural wrinkles that go through that city. And some of them are not more positive than others, let's just say. Isn't Barry Sanders from Wichita? He is.

He is. His parents lived across the street from my parents. best friends, Wichita North alumnus. You know, with all due respect to Richel dezma, I would say Barry Sanders is probably my favorite athlete of all time. In the comparison between the two, no, you know,

not to be harsh on Richie, I think Barry is going to take the crown there. I was looking into Wichita. I think this is the largest city I know nothing about. That is a perfect way to describe Wichita. When you said I was looking into Wichita, it just pins and needles, Chris.

just so, I just didn't know where that could possibly go, but you've summed up Wichita very succinctly. I was shocked to learn it's the 51st biggest city. What is something that was larger than you think? Yeah, I would say that it's, it's one of many cities that are exactly the same in the Midwest. Like, Des Moines and Wichita, if you drove through any given part of them, how much difference could you see or tell, but maybe not a ton? Like those mid-sized cities in that part of the country, it's like, yeah, you're going to run into people who tell you that it's nice to raise a family there, that the cost of living is good,

and, you know, it's getting more entrepreneurial. That's Wichita, man, and it was a great place to grow up. That's exactly what all these Western cities say. Uh-huh. They probably have a T-shirt. I love Wichita, like Wichita, like, Wichita Pride, you know, that's, that's, that's, hey, man, just groove it, groove it, and hit a dinger, hit it out of the park. Every single one of those cities has got the same sort of business plan they're running. It's kind of working. We need, we need like three or five of these cities to pan out, or we're just kind of collapse as a nation. We don't, need to get into that right now. But hopefully, Wichita can be one of them.

You know I love talking about collapse, Chris. I know. I'm surprised we weren't talking about it before recording. All right. Let's talk about soccer a little bit. So, Andrew, you recently watched from a few feet away as Javier Machirano relayed instructions to one Lionel Messi. Please, please, talk us through the visceral experience of being in Messi's presence.

This is, you know, very like that. the most famous person on earth. He's a godlike figure in lots of places in the world. What's that like? I'm only partially joking when I say that I'm not trying to look him in the eye

when I'm on the sideline and around him. Like I'm only, like, I'm kind of glancing, but I'm not just staring him down and I don't think he's even seeing me in the slightest. The thing I noticed the most about Messi is just the focus. like this dude is in a bubble.

He is absolutely and utterly locked in on what he's doing, thinking, trying to accomplish, who he's frustrated at on the field, whether that's a teammate, an opponent, the referee, and you just can't break that focus. And to me that seems like apart from all the obvious stuff, the technical and tactical and physical brilliance, like that seems like a superpower that will get you a long way

of just being sort of unbreakable in terms of your, of your, of your, engagement in the moment. And I think you can even you can even sort of port that over to like when that when that bubble gets broken. Like when he scores a goal and he's like, all right, I'm going to let my hair down a little bit. I'm going to go, you know, high five my kids on the sideline or in a different life, I'm going to take my jersey off and taunt the new, the Real Madrid fans. Like, you know, in his moment, he's just so freaking locked in. And it's very clear to me that Javier Mascherano is, is just on a very similar wavelength and a long term wavelength with all of these barsa guys for obvious reasons. It's a friendship that is now

a professional sort of coach player relationship, but like Messi is just as much calling shots, I think, in that club as anyone else. And that's not just Javier. That goes up and down the club. And it seems to me early on, like, like, Mase is a really, really good fit for this team in terms of those relationships, but also his experience with young players and his desire to just put them out there and let them, let them roll. And that's what this team needs. Miami needs their stars to thrive. But for those guys that thrive,

they need guys that are just going to run their pants off and be excited to be there. Is the eyesight, the no eye contact thing? Is that you just trying to be reverent? Like, what's the... Is there something about it? Just try that to be weird. You know what I mean?

Like, not trying to be like thirsty for eye contact with the goat. You know what I mean? Like, you might see your friend and you're like, yeah, yeah. I'm like, let me get this dude's, across the room like, oh yeah, hey, hey, what's up, what's up? But, you know, I'm not like, hey, Leonel, look at, hey, it's me. It's, it's who?

No, I'm like, I'm just trying to watch everything he does in a way where he doesn't feel like I'm watching him because I'm sure that his entire life is spent in a place where it feels like everybody's watching him all the time. So I don't want to be the weird guy, you know what I mean? I don't want to be like that, like, who's that Midwesterner guy in a suit on the sideline who just keeps smiling at me strangely. Yeah, he looks like he. He's from Wichita.

Yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, what anonymous city is this man from? Are there any other people down when you're down in that sideline area that you feel like you have to adjust your behavior around? Or if you've been working in this league long enough, you're going down there with confidence. You haven't done this exact job. Am I correct? You haven't? Yeah, no, you're correct.

I've dabbled. I've dabbled a bit over the years. You must have learned enough. You have a comfort as a professional. Are you moving freely about? Do they tell you where you know? where you need to sit or are you making the rules up for yourself down there? Oh, no, I'm definitely not making the rules up.

Look, in Miami, there are specific rules in terms of where you can be and sit and stand. Other stadiums have much more free rain to move around a little bit. No, other than messy, there's nobody I feel that way about. I think just over the years, like those feelings have kind of faded away. But for whatever reason, you know, obvious reasons, I guess, Linnell is on a different perch. No, I'm trying to do my job, which is, I'm trying to get information about anything I can, whether that's talking to people, that includes the referee crew that's there, that includes both staffs, that includes anybody

I can get my hands on. And what I'm learning is just as much as just being extremely observational, just trying to watch, internalize, interpret every single thing I see and be able to recognize the moments that are important and are big and the moments that are just sort of like throw away moments that happen all the time. And I'm still learning that. I mean, I just did an interview with Cameron Meyer in Soccer America, and I really enjoyed talking to him. And I made the comparison in there, and my wife said I shouldn't have done it, but I think it's just true in that, you know, if this is an art form, sideline reporting, I'm finger painting.

Like, I am, I'm just sort of figuring out in, you know, the medium. And I'm really thankful to people like Gillian Sackavits and Katie Witham and a bunch of producers around the industry that I've spoken to and have helped me. and of course Jake Ziven and Taylor Twelman and Brad Mortel, who are sort of the dream team that I'm working with every week for helping me figure this out on the fly. But I am figuring it out on the fly. The thing is, that's been my whole career at MLS. I've been pushed into situations where either I wasn't comfortable

or it was new over and over and over. And at some point, I just decided like, yeah, okay, you know, like I'm just going to make it work every time because what other choice do I have? And it's fun. Like, it's fun to try new things. It's fun to be challenged. And I'm having a ton of fun right now figuring this out.

Andrew, so with this new role and everything that you just mentioned as far as like, you know, if you were to catch eyes with Messi, he'd be like, who's this, who's this Joe Schmo? Or maybe he wouldn't, Vince. Maybe he wouldn't. Maybe that would be, maybe that's what I'm afraid of. I don't know. Okay. And so because of when you do get your moment, I want to ask you this, number is two part question. kind of.

Number one, how vain are you or how vain have you become with this new role? And number two, do you feel any pressure to maybe not look like you're from the Midwest? A second question we'll answer first. Oh, absolutely. Are you kidding me? I've felt that pressure from the moment I moved to Brooklyn, New York and was like, oh, this is how people with taste dress and behave in public. I mean, I had to change my entire look.

It was like a beautiful thing for me actually in life. I was 25 years old. I moved to Brooklyn, New York, and I was like, I can be a completely different person than I was in Wichita, Kansas, Lawrence, Kansas, and Kansas City, Missouri. So, yeah, no, I, for sure am trying to dress as if I am not a Midwesterner, even though I'm proudly one. I happily have dipped my toes in the menswear waters in the last couple years. Suit supply has become a go-to for me. I don't get paid to say that.

I wish I did. That would be sick coming out of my pocket, which is tough. But I enjoy putting on a nice suit and hitting the sideline. How vain am I? Well, I almost forgot the first question as I talked about my Winswear obsession. So I guess the meter is ticking toward more vain than before. But my wife keeps me pretty, she keeps me pretty grounded and slaps me down pretty good anytime I'm acting a fool in any way.

And at the end of the day, I'm still just a, I'm a dude from Wichita, Kansas, and I'm really fortunate to be in this position. I know that a lot of hard work went into it. And, you know, I think I, I deserve to be where I'm at in a lot of ways. But that doesn't mean I'm special. There's a lot of people that could have done it and would have done it had they got the same opportunities that I did. So I'm just trying to put that suit on and make you believe, bro, make you believe I'm something

I'm not. I like the finger painting metaphor. So you can tell your wife that, if you, if you, want. It's because I have a four and a seven-year-old Bells. It's like all I know. Well, I wonder, so what's the, what's the first trick you've learned about, you know,

how to make good content from the sideline? Like, what's, give us a couple of insights. It's always less. It's always less than you think it is. I mean, I think that's the number one thing I've learned working more in traditional quote-unquote TV. I came from a background on podcasting, as you guys know, and that's an arena where you can just air it out, like say what you want.

want to say, like, explore the idea, go back and forth, you know, that's not TV. TV, you need to be really effective at understanding your moment, having a good feel for what your message is, and then really sort of crafting that message in the right format, length, and with the right sort of vocal intonation to have it land and deliver. And that's, it's not a natural way of speaking in a lot of ways. It's not conversational sometimes, but you have to find a way to bridge that and that product you have to have and then make it conversational. So the person at home is not just like, well, who is this reporter robot talking at me? And that's, I mean, I'm still figuring that out.

And I've had a broadcast coach through MLS and I'm super thankful for them setting me up with that for the last couple of years. And boy, I've had some rough days with her where she's just torn me apart. but I consistently see myself improving and getting better and I just always have to drill into my mind that less is more because more is just more and there's not time for it on TV. How many times are you cut to in a game typically? Like 10? No, no, it's more in a game on the sideline it's more like three, four, five times.

It's not a huge amount. So that's where you have to be really judicious and targeted. I mean, I'm pitching throughout the game. I'm in the producer's ear. I'm like, hey, I'm seeing this. And a lot of what I see and say to the producer gets into the broadcast via communication to Taylor and Jake. It may not always be me saying it. But I guess if you include all the interviews and all the pregame hits, yeah, 10 to 12 times.

And so, like, you know, you're not, you know, it's a limited number of at-bats, so to speak. You've got to make them count. Have you unlocked the pattern on what gets you, what you say the producer that gets you on to the broadcast? A lot of it is just Really it's all about Sort of like what do I see and hear And feel that nobody else could feel Like it just is impossible

To see or understand If you're watching the game Whether that's on TV or whether that's in the booth Little things like In the Miami Toronto game A few weeks back Brin Hildsen The Norwegian striker was just out there

Just throwing bows And he was just trying to be Carlos Ruiz incarnate and I could see Redondo just getting pissed. He was getting mad. And you can only see that with that little body language that you sort of notice and the little glances and the little moments of contact

that start to add up when you're right there. And then Bryn-Hiltson got hit in the back of the head and Redondo I could just see was like, no, no, Redondo got hit. And I could see that Redondo just sort of marked that down and was like, you know, I haven't played the game at a high level, but I've played the game. And in those moments you mark it down,

you're like, I'm going to get that guy. Like, I'm waiting for my moment, I'm going to get him. And three minutes later, he got him. And so it's those sorts of stories that you can tell. Or, for example, I was right there the other day in the St. Louis game when Joshua Yarrow had the concussion protocol going on. And I was sitting right next to the medical director. And seeing the sort of like back and forth in communication with the benches

and what Joshua Yarrow was saying and how they were making a decision, like those are the sorts of things that I need to lean on. And then, you know, I'll have five or six really good stories every game. like reported out stories that I could drop in if you know if somebody does something incredible I'll get one in every game we do the Allstate I believe it was a player spotlight and I'll get that in but I have a couple others like you know for instance for San Diego and it never got in but um I had like a 45 minute conversation with Luca del Tori's parents because I just I was just so interested in what it meant for his family for him to be back in San Diego after leaving as a 16 year old

so I'm just trying to talk to as many people as I can I'm a curious person I want to know even if it doesn't get on the broadcast. So I'm just gathering information. I'm just trying to gather as much as I can and then try to help people feel the feelings that happen when you're right there on the sidelines. I would like to hear, we don't have to go into great detail on it. But what are Luke at Taylor's parents like?

I'm imagining two very taciturn, dark hay or pale people. One, his father, yes. His father, I believe, is from the Canary Islands. So he, and they're both scientists and both brilliant. So that's intimidating. His mother is much more, this is just my readoff 45 minutes, much more the sort of like warm-hearted loving mother figure. And his father was obviously loves his son to death,

but was more like after you get done with your game against, you know, in the Mexican League on a Sunday when you're 12 years old, we're going to talk about what needs to be better. But still very loving and is the one who cooks for Luca. They were just sort of, they were delightful, to be honest with you. And now that I'm in my dad era, you know, the partners in soccer slash extra time chat will make fun of me endlessly for the vibes I put off in that sense. But I'm a sucker for a good parents are proud story. And my God, they were glowing.

And they were like, yeah, he's coming over for dinner. We gave him a key. It's just, you know, like what a great era in their life. The first year of San Diego FC and their son is involved and they're bawling out. And he's dropping by with his girlfriend, who's also named Luca, I believe, which is kind of crazy. It's weird. It's weird. It's weird. You said that. Crazy.

We don't like it. Serendipitous, somewhat strange. I don't know. But it was awesome. Yeah. It was just great. So another thing you said in that Soccer America interview, which I recommend, everybody should go be a Soccer America subscriber and read that interview.

Is that, you know, you really care about the young domestic players in MLS and their development. How are they doing? How are they doing this as a cohort right now? Are they, I have trouble sometimes with this because I just think there's, there's like one obvious question to it for literally every soccer country in the world. And it's like not as well as we want them to do, right? Don't we always want more?

Like definitely the United States does. Argentina probably does too. Like England, France, they all want more. So I want more. I always want more. I want our coaches to play on more. I want them to get more opportunities. to sort of like work through the bumps, I want, um, I want them to be rewarded more. I really think

that like domestic players, both in the U.S. and Canadian sense, ought to be given more U-22 contracts, not just out of the goodness of GMs and sporting directors' hearts, but because they've earned them. Like, they are arguably the best cohort, I mean, I don't think it's arguable, they're the best cohort of U-22 players in the league. They have the most first-team impact. They are the best ROI transfers, there's a really mixed bag in terms of spending big money on U-22 players and bringing them to the United States from elsewhere, and for obvious reasons, for the same reasons that if you picked up, I don't know, what's a name that recently, Quinn Sullivan, let's just say, and dropped him in Germany right now, it probably wouldn't go that well.

Brian Reynolds is a great example. There you go. Yeah, great example. Great example. So I'm a big fan of supporting those players, and I always just want to see more, more from them, but certainly also more from the structure that surrounds them to encourage and promote and make the runway not necessarily smooth, I wouldn't say,

but to give them what they've earned and when they've earned reward them. And I think more and more MLS and the clubs in the league are doing that. And even USL clubs are starting to be much more adept at doing that as well. So I'm encouraged. I really am. But am I satisfied? Hell no, never. Are you able to pick out particular players?

that you're intrigued by or we should be more excited than we are? For sure. I mean, I got a laundry list. As always, I'm, you know, that's my, that's my bit, right? I got to have a list. I feel that my watch in terms of Pat Ajiman and the Ajumon hive is over. I feel that, you know, he's graduated out of the intriguing list into the,

this could really work at a high level list. Guys that I've seen recently I've been really impressed with and I'll just kind of stick with some in person and some outside. Owen Wolf in person just really wowed me. I think from a technical standpoint, he's very underrated. From a physical standpoint, he's a dog. Like, he's a dog. There were a number of touches in that match in Austin,

where I was just like, he can't possibly, oh, he has that, he has that and more in his bag. And I think this is a really positive year for him in terms of Nico Estevez, just giving him more responsibility. And also, they're just not being really another, 10 adjacent player to replace him. So he's going to get a ton of run. And I think that's a guy that is going to make a big leap and is making a big leap.

Noah Allen is another dog and a guy that I sort of wish the U.S. wouldn't have let just like waltz off to Greece quite so easily. He is not prototypical. He's a little guy, at least in terms of like, hey, your Virgil Van Dyke ideal centerback. but he's just so effective and confident and calm in that position. And when I look at Miami and I see who Javier Mascherano is leaning towards, or at least in my opinion, leaning towards in terms of who his starters are, I think No Allen is one of them.

And for a guy like that to give him the vote of approval, given his history and kind of the similarity as players, I think that's huge. Finn Sermon is another one? I guess he's not domestic, is he? I mean, none of us are from New Zealand, but he's a young player that I'm super impressed by. I've never heard of him. You know what? Last year I hadn't either.

When he started on Decision Day, I was preparing for that game, and I was like, this sounds like a EA sports FIFA gin name. You know, it's like watching the GA Cup sometimes you're like, who the what? Like, what a name, what a name, but a really, really good player. Like very, very traditional, I would say, is a centerback, but I think has a big ceiling. and Phil Neville will talk your ear off about him. Alex Freeman. I don't know if you guys are on the Alex Freeman train.

No, I'm not. But Orlando City's outside back, he has all the pieces, both physically and technically, and now it's a question of him just getting extended run in that lineup. So keep an eye on him. I think C.J. Dos Santos is a really good goalkeeper prospect that's starting to finally get his opportunity. And he's played really well for San Diego.

And then I'm always going to hold on to my Nathan Slibea. stock, I just, you know, come on Montreal. Just, just, please. You have so many good young players. Just stop being a train wreck. Like the one year they weren't a train wreck when Wilfred was there, they were printing money. Printing it.

And now they're printing L's and disappointment. And I just want them to be better. So. I have, go ahead, Vince. I won't know anything. Oh, you weren't. You weren't. Okay.

So I have two questions about the Sullivan's. number one, we had David Goss on here a couple months ago. He said Cabin Sullivan was going to definitely play a thousand minutes this season. How angry should we be with him for that prediction? Well, should we be angry with Dave, or should we direct our anger at Bradley Carnell? And I don't even know if you would direct your anger. I actually think this might be the best thing that could happen for Kevin is that he has a manager who is going to demand an awful lot of him.

like, you know, Jim was so deep in that club and in deep with Sullivan's as well. And he was the perfect manager, I think, to bring Kevin in. And I think under Jim, Kevin would have thrived as well. But there comes a time probably where the coach just has to say, I need you to defend at a different level than you're defending, or I need this to be better if you're going to see the field. And for a young player to have to jump up and meet the threshold. Like, Kevin Sullivan's talent is awesome.

Unquestionable. Like, the dude has, watching him in person, his aura, I don't, it's, I don't even know, I don't have the words

to describe it. He's just, like, he, it's like, I've never believed in anything, let alone myself, the way that Kevin

clearly believes in himself. Yeah. And I think that's an incredible, um, it's a unique thing. And only people that, that truly, have abilities at a crazy high level are liable to have that and he has it. But the modern game

is about more than that, man. It's about, it's about defending. It's about being like physically super, super capable. And that's the demand that's going to come for Quinn, or excuse me, for Kevin. And I just dropped Quinn. It might be the best thing in the world for Quinn that he's got a younger brother who's hyped this much because he's just like rolling along steadily under the radar doing a lot of the things that we want Kevin to do someday. Well, let me play a question from a listener about that. Here we go. Hey, guys.

Reese from Arizona here. Lots of talk about Kevin Sullivan these days and rightfully so. But I want to take a second to talk about his brother Quinn and get your guys' thoughts on that. I think based on his play this year and last season, he deserved to be in the national team picture just as much as guys like Jack McGlynn and Diego Luna. You know, fans are talking a lot about wanting guys with hustle and guys that will just try. stuff and take players on and I think Quinn fits a lot of a lot of those characteristics that maybe fans feel that the team is missing right now. Obviously not the finished product but he's really seems like he's trading a corner this

season and I think he deserves a shot. Curious to know what you guys think, what we be thinks and yeah, thanks. Yeah, I mean, I don't know about necessarily like first team national team camps competitive games but I completely agree that getting Quinn Sullivan of the group would be a positive thing. To me, he's a throwback. He's a throwback to some of the national teams of old, and let's not pretend like those guys weren't super technical and really good on the ball.

And I think Quinn is better on the ball than he gets credit for, but he's relentless. He's completely relentless, and he just runs at you, and he does it over and over and over, and he's happy to take a punch and throw a punch, and, like, I like those players. and I extra like it when you can do all those things and then you're putting up box score numbers as well I just I'm curious to see what he might look like in a different system because the way Philly plays is not extremely unique but I'm curious I just be curious like it's not that I'm like

hey trade him Philly I'm just like I'm just curious I just would love to see it man I see that that's the thing because Quinn does have you know the intangibles as you laid out but and and the skill No, I'm not trying to underplay the downplay the skill. But the times I've checked in to watch Quinn Sullivan, yeah, Philadelphia just play some, I mean, disgusting ball. Absolutely disgusting ball. I'm not going to lie.

Like to the point to where I'm like, man, I mean, Quinn's doing all right, but it's like, yeah, I would like, I would like to see him somewhere else. Well, not even somewhere else. He can stay at Philly and keep doing his thing. But yeah, I think maybe an A-team can might be in the environment where we can see what he really has in his bag. Because for me, right now, it's kind of hard to tell just based on the way the Philadelphia. Yeah, I mean, I get it. I get it. I would also, I mean, as you said that, I was thinking about Jack McGlynn.

And Jack McGlynn is a guy that we just begged and begged and begged to see in a different environment and said, hey, this guy's skill set doesn't really fit with the union. Union in a lot of ways. And yet he thrived in Philly and I think has had a little bit of not a bumpy go, but just a figuring it out moment with the Houston Dynamo in a system that is much more on paper matching with his skill set. So, like, am I curious? I'm always curious. Am I curious to see them in the national team?

Of course. Does there need to be some sort of like ideation process in terms of who can make it? I mean, if we're not doing that right now, I don't know what we're doing. You took Jack Bullkin to a Texas rodeo fair when you were in Houston. Oh, I did. You made him try on some cowboy hats. Then I don't know if we saw you eat barbecue, but I know you made them. Oh, I ate barbecue.

Nobody wanted to see me eat barbecue. They just wanted to see Jack. So the producers made a decision. We'll just show Jack. I'm sure. And then we did see you playing carnival games together. Did you learn anything about Jack during that time you spent with him? Well, I definitely learned that people on the East Coast are much more sheltered in terms of Midwest.

Western and Southern culture than I had any idea. Jack had never seen a cowboy before. So the moment, like a cowboy person in a cowboy hat, I'm not even sure you would define these people as necessarily cowboys, all of them at least. He rolled up on this rodeo and was like, this is stuff I've never, you know, this is like in a movie stuff for me. He was, he was a great dude. He was a really great dude. He was, for being a young guy, he was really mature and open and both on and off camera, just sort of curious about the situation we were in, about me, about the city,

and very open about what he was going through and trying to figure out. And, you know, not all kids that are 20, 21 are able to be that way. And Jack, I just came away thinking, like, this guy's really mature. It's a big opportunity for him. I think he'll find a way to swim. And it hasn't happened immediately for him, but I think he's starting to show signs than trying to figure out exactly where in this team he best fits. Are you picking the activities for these excursions you're doing with players?

Is this a conversation with a producer? Yeah, yeah, it's a collaborative process. I'm pitching like crazy, though, because I want to get these guys outside of the facilities. You know, there's been sort of a, for a long time you saw MLS interviews go down in the training facility. And that's like if somebody came and interviewed me at my job, you know, you're just different. You're just different. So like I'd never, I'm not a sushi guy. And I know I'm not a sushi guy, but I thought it would be funny and good TV if Maya

Yoshita helped me try sushi and explain it to me. So you pitched the sushi. I pitched the sushi. Because you said in there, you had never had sushi before. No, I'd never had, I definitely had never had sashimi. I'd had like the most basic, like, not, this is not sushi rolls. Yeah. California rule.

You know, fake crab sort of joint. Yeah, yeah. Or like, you know, temper a shrimp just so I don't look like an idiot ordering terriaki chicken and fried rice every time I go to sushi with my family. But I was like, I'm doing it. I'm going, I'm barreling over the edge. But we've got some good stuff cooked up. I think in Kansas City I'm going to play chess against Dan Yovalich, who's like a chess master.

Yeah, the Brandon Vasquez won. I was like, we need to do something very Austin. and he was into boots. Like he already had a pair of boots that he had recently gotten. So he was all about the idea. And I've got to tell you, once you start trying on cowboy boots, you're like, I look.

I mean, sadly this goes back to Vince's vein question. You're like, I feel and look good. Like these are tight. I don't know who I want to take these off. At least the video led me to believe that you bought boots and he did as well. Were those genuine purchases or is that for the, is that for show?

Did you come away from, Did you buy a pair of boots? I just want to shout out to Kovas. I mean, I just want to, you know, what an incredible supporter of soccer and cowboy boot ambition in this country. You know, I would have purchased those boots. I want that to be known. You're on the take. But, you know, but they were nice enough to comp those boots in the end.

So, uh, okay. That's a, you know, that's a free pair of boots for your boy. But you got the boots. I got the boots. And they're amazing. They're so comfortable. That's nice, man. because I think I was going to ask you about this,

but earlier you said you're paying for your suits out of pocket. Is that what I heard? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, like, yeah, yeah. Well, here's what we do. I'm paid. My job is that I do this and I'm paid to do that job. And then.

No, you just take the next player suit shopping. That's a good plan. You can buy. That's a good. I did actually email suit supply. This is, I emailed suit supply. And I was like, do you have an influencer program? And they're like, that doesn't exist for us.

And I've since seen a number of Instagram menswear influencers who are clearly on the suit supply take. So that knocked the vanity down to a zero vent. Understood. Real quick, before we go anywhere else, we be, I'm just wondering, have you met Papa Sullivan? I have not. No, but I would love to. I don't think we're doing a Philly game. That would be a great feature.

Maybe like a, maybe I don't know, a family dinner at the Sullivan's. Okay. Kevin, Kevin, come up here. I'm just wondering, man, because based off the MLS documentary, that's a character that I would love to get to know. Yeah, I completely, completely agree. A guy can dream. I don't think we have Philly on the schedule right now. But we do have some flex games, so come on, that Thai Barabo train needs to keep rolling.

We need some results here. What league do you think Diego Luna will transfer to? I mean, if I'm betting my money on a league, it's just like a frying pan to the face obvious answer to me, and that's League MX. I just think if you look at the recent history of big expenditures on MLS players and young MLS players, it's been League MX. And given Diego's background, I think it would make a ton of sense for a league MX team to come in with a boatload of money. if he continues on this trajectory and just say, yeah, we think you fit because I think he would fit in Liga MX's style of play. And I bet he would get paid a ton of money.

Like, look at Brandon Vasquez and his example here. I just think it's sort of like if you've got young Polish internationals ending up at Cruz Azul, like, come on, Diego Luna in League of MX, I think it could make a lot of sense. Cruz Azul living in Mexico City. I mean, it's a good life. Yeah, better than most of the places. you land in Europe.

Mexico City, in my opinion, is like one of the best cities in this hemisphere. Like, it's just a playground. It's an amazing place. I've never been, but I've said that. Yeah, you should do it. My wife is the same. I'm trying to convince her. Can we start talking about the national team a little bit?

Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, sure. So where are you right now on the USMMET emotionally? Detached. You can be honest. You can be honest with us. Yeah, yeah, I will be honest. A little bit detached.

Sort of, you know, you get those bouncy balls out of the machine at the supermarket, and they come in the plastic. You've got to break the plastic. And like, you can do it. You can expose that bouncy ball. But, like, if you wanted to keep it in there, you could keep it in there and protect it. And I've got a protective shell over my heart when it comes to this team. And, you know, and I'm a person who, you know, at my most,

irrational with the national team, like Big Night at the Bar in college, I'm wearing the Michael Bradley kit, baby. We're going with the Michael Bradley kit. Like, I'm jumping up and down when Josie scores me in Spain and like, it's on delay and my roommates tried to ruin it for me and I'm just losing my mind. Like, I, I, until I started covering it, I was living it. But right now, I'm just sort of, I'm trying, I'm trying, I got a lot of things going on. And I can't give too much. much emotional energy to something that doesn't always feel like it gives as much back as I want it to. Now, is there something that they can do this summer or coming up here to stir your heart,

inspire you, or is it more you, you just need a little bit of time? I think there's a big element of it's just me and also like different points in life. But I think if I had to envision a scenario where my heart is a flutter, it would be less about quality soccer and aesthetics, and it would be more about, like, watching the Gold Cup and just feeling like this team likes each other, that they fight for each other, that they're happy to wade into Conccaf and circle the wagons

and, like, throw on some brass knuckles and just be like, let's bleep some fools up. Like, let's, you know, we're better soccer players than they are, but, like, let's get after it. Like, let's make them hurt. You know, let's not, like, pretty them to death. We can win for nothing, sure, but let's break them. Like, I want to see, I want to see, like, ruthlessness and, like, a pack of wolves.

I mean, that's just, that's what I need to feel that again. I need to feel like, like, we're hunting, and we feel like the hunters. And, you know, that, like, players are happy to not just do beautiful things with the ball and build up and, you know, score these great goals and thrive for their club teams. but when they get together, they're just like, yeah, like Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago, Saudi Arabia, like, you're dead meat. Like, we are going to beat you down. Like, I want to feel that when I turn on an U.S. game and be on the edge of my seat,

but like, get these dudes, like, let's go. And I just don't feel that sort of, I don't know. I don't know how to describe it any other way than that. I don't feel that. I don't feel that. And I want to feel that. I really want to feel that. And when we feel that, especially, I feel we feel it against Mexico and did in the last, I don't know, five, six years a number of times against Mexico.

You know, that's when I was like, my foam background is the iconic picture of Pulisic and all the dudes just like peacocking on Mexico. And I just, you know, I don't know. As a fan, you just kind of, your chest puffs out and you're like, uh, like, get some. And I don't feel like we're giving those vibes too much. No, we're not. I hope that happens. I really do.

Like, I'm ready to dive back in. Like, saying all that made me feel it again. Now, do you feel in your heart that Maricio Pachitino? Is he going to do that? Are you a believer? I, I, I am not a believer that he individually can make that happen. Like, and that's not on, I'm not like dissing, Pochitino at all here. I'm much more a believer that all of that is going to come directly from the players.

Like, I just think that that's something that they have to create and that Pochitino can foster and then take and apply in the most effective manners in his mind. But I don't see how a coach can walk in and create that on his own. Like, it would have to be a collaborative thing. And I truly think that the driving force would have to be. the players. So what do you think is going on here? You know? Like, I have no idea. It is.

Yeah. I don't know. Okay, so it. I don't even want to pretend to know. I agree with you that it can't necessarily, it shouldn't necessarily be the coach. But like, now we just got a whole bunch of dudes just out there seemingly, seemingly, going through the motions. Like, like, how?

How do they get out of it as a group? Or who are the figures that can pull us out of it? Because, you know, Tyler Adams injured, Tyler Adams in the squad. Nothing has really changed. And he's, you know, supposed to be that guy, that leader that rallies the troops, gets everyone behind them. So how, like, what's the path out for them, you think? I just got to do it. Like, I don't, I think it comes down to, like,

a mindset too and that's got to be a shared mindset and I think those mindsets get built over a long period of time. I can't sit here and tell you what it's like in a professional locker room would never even feign that sort of understanding. But I think we can all understand what it's like to be a part of a team. And that could be a team within your workplace. That could be a team when you're a kid digging fence posts or doing some other, some sort of whatever. That could be a team like riding around your neighborhood on your bikes and your buddies and like. example. Yeah.

I mean, I'm sorry. These are my, these are my, these are my more than experiences. Never dug any fence posts. Yeah.

My dad put me through a good amount of yard work as a, as a character building exercise. Um, yeah, like, you know, like,

it could just, it's just, like, leadership is important. And I think people follow those people. But I also just think leadership becomes, um,

something that everybody within the group expects from each other. And, you know, maybe they're just not, This is a maybe. I'm just guessing maybe they're not expecting enough of each other and holding each other to that account enough

because the results aren't there. And that's what everybody sees. And it's what they see and feel as well. And I'm sure they want it to get better. But yeah, just go punch some people in the face, man. Go get in a fight. Like, figure it out. Like, see who stands up.

See who runs away. Because this team is probably not going to pretty anybody off the pitch and certainly not in a high leverage top 15 team in the world. World World Cup match, in my opinion, as currently constructed. So, but let's see a different, let's see something a little bit different. And maybe the good soccer will come from that as well. Yeah, I had a couple Greg Burhalter culture war questions I was going to try to drag you into. But I'm hearing now, that's not what we need.

We need to be forward looking. We need to attack and we just need to go get it done. I just, I think, man, I just, I'm so, I'm so sort of exhausted with the Greg narratives. I just feel like that everybody and everything needs a fall guy and Greg had this tough start in terms of like he wasn't going to get an unbiased jury from the jump given the process and all the perceptions around that process and I think that was a bad mix of that start for Greg

Greg being like not a more Mauricio Pochitino or big time European guy that people could just say like he's an expert like what do we know he's an expert they could second guess him. And then American fans just wanting so badly for us to turn a corner in terms of player talent and ability that I don't think anybody could bear to blame anybody but the coach or at least the most vocal sections of the fan base

didn't want to blame anybody but the coach. And do I think that Greg was perfect? No, no chance. But like the Pochitino era is telling on people right now. Like it was not like Greg's results were pretty good. The performances were pretty good. I didn't really think that it was like, I didn't think it was, it wasn't bad.

But it's not just the coach. Like, it's the players have to ultimately be the ones that do it. Like Bruce Arena would tell you that in the O2 team. Like, sure, could he do whatever? But yeah, it was going to have to be his guys that went out and just did the job. Now I'm going to be a Greg Stan. Everybody's scuffed. No, no, no, no.

You should hear what Waki's been saying lately. He's one of the, if not one of the, You know, top five coaches in the world. I don't have a plan on what I'm saying here. I think he's a fantastic coach. You did say, I want him, Chris. I completely agree. I completely agree.

Chris said a couple days ago, actually, was it Monday or maybe the week before that? Marisa Pachitino's not cool. Greg is way cool. Greg is way cooler. He is cooler. Yeah. Man, yeah, I don't know.

Don't worry. Did you see what he was wearing this past weekend? We already talked about that. We don't need to get it. and do it again. I'm big on, is this, I'll Instagram,

stock it down. I'm big on the gram. Yeah. I'll find it. It's really good. Yeah, I mean, you're right about the results,

you know. We make it, we make it, we made it into like, not a big deal for us to beat Mexico and punch them in the face, or at least some segments of the fan mace

tried to make that, not a big deal. And now, uh, we can't even, you know, can't even win a game at the Nations League semi-fi.

You know what it was? Be careful of what you wish. for. Be careful what you wish for. That first qualifying window killed the mojo he had going coming out of

summer 2021. And I don't want to point fingers. But we got West McKinney. Just run around Nashville. It comes back to the players.

You can't keep them in the building. But I like it. I like a guy running around a little bit. I like a little personality. If you think those you think those old school USMNT guys were head on the pillow at 8.30 p.m. and getting the most rest possible and hydrated to the nth degree, you are out of your damn mind.

Like, I think personality is a good thing. There just needs to be accountability within a group. Like, you can do whatever, but when it's time, it's time. And you got to deliver it first. I think it did matter. This was the youngest, a very young group of players. Oh, so, so young. So young.

Yeah, look, we can, the bow that I'll put. on it is I I really think it comes down to what American fans, again, some segments of American fans wanted our national team to be and to be able to accomplish without necessarily reality

matching up with those expectations. And when those things didn't align, there had to be somebody to blame. And Greg was taking, you know, funny, doing backwards passes on the sidelines and, you know, he was a target. And they got out,

They got the target locked in. All right. So you spent a lot of time captaining the ship of Extra Time Radio Show, which I think has a really warm place and lots of soccer fans' hearts. Who has to get fired for it to come back? Who has to get fired at MLS for it to come back? Well, I hope nobody. I think there's a, I would like for it to come back. I'm actively, like from the moment that it was no long, well, before that, I was trying to make sure it would not.

end, but I'm still trying to do that because I just think it's a great show. And I don't say that in terms of like, again, vanity from Vince. I say that in terms of I loved doing the show. Like it was the, if I, if you were to ask me right now, you say, hey, your career in soccer media is over. What's the thing you're most proud of? It wouldn't even be a question. It would be extra time. Like one through five, all five spaces on the board. It would be extra time. It would be the relationships that we built through extra time. it be the fact that I feel that no matter who walked through the doors and who was a part of that show, whether it was Susanna Collins or Bobby Warshaw or Charlie Davies or of course Dave and I or, you know, Simon Borg before that or Nick Furshaw or Doyle or, you know, all manner of Tom, obviously, and Kalin and all these people. Like, it just always worked. It always just felt like friends talking about soccer and that's what I liked about it. We were sickos doing what sickos do, which is like talk about inane things that most people think don't matter, but my God, they matter to us. And I think it can come back.

I think it's, you know, I don't know why I couldn't. And I'm going to try to do everything I can to get there. I can't tell you that it will. But I'm actively pestering people all the time being like, you know, it could just, we could just, it could just come back. Like, I'm okay with ugly crying publicly multiple times and then having it just come back and be like, oh, never mind. Like, we're back.

Like, I'm cool with that. I'm okay with that. And I think this era of MLS deserves something like Extra Time, where you can, multiple times a week, be immersed in all the storylines and ridiculousness and personality-driven BS of this league in addition to the serious stuff, which, you know, I feel we did in equal measure. So let's hope, you know, start the letter-riding campaign. Okay, yeah.

Just don't tell them I sent yet, because I don't know how that'll work out for me. I remember, go ahead, Chris. It just sounds like there's some momentum here that we could. I'm just reading between the lines. I'm hoping. It's time for the push. It's time. I remember when we started scuffed, it was like there were really two places where you could hear somebody talk seriously about the national team.

And it was you guys in total soccer show, you know? I mean, maybe there was somewhere else, but I couldn't. knows it, buddy. Yeah. You know, it's funny that you say that. We were, for a long time, we were, we were really deep into the U.S. national team. And I'm like, you did those club and country episodes like, yeah, we did a ton of stuff. Like, we did live reactions after every game. And, and it was one of the real audience drivers for the show. And I think it brought us to a different group of people that weren't MLS fans that then became MLS fans off of it, or at least became extra time fans or just tolerated that to hear the U.S. national team talk. But I kind of

I kind of feel like that once you guys really got momentum going, and I started listening to the show, and the league grew, I feel like we did less and less national team. And maybe that was after Bobby left. Because of us? Not because of you. It's just the timing. Yeah. It felt like there were more people talking about it, and it wasn't so much like, if we don't do it, it won't happen. Yeah. And the league grew to 30 teams, and there was just, like, limited time for us to do XYZ.

And then, I don't know, I started listening to you guys, and I was like, yeah, you know, they're doing it at a level. I'll just listen to that. I don't have to always have to take. I remember there were sometimes when Doyle wanted to keep going talking about the national team and you would like cut it off. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that too. I mean, you had to get a schedule to keep. I'm not pulling it against you.

But now looking back on that, it's not that I regret it, but I do think back and think, well, you know what? The U.S. national team was such a powerful tool for us, both in terms of to get us fired up because we were fired up about it a lot. and also in terms to just like pull in people that we might not have otherwise. So you know what? If extra time ever comes back, you got yourself a competitor. We're back in the game, baby.

Wait and see. These past two years have not been the absolute best time to be covering the national team. That's fair. You might have made it. I think you might have actually We're hitting it on the downturn, baby.

Yeah. Buy low, buy high, sell low, you know? Now's the time to buy. Now's the time to buy. Um, what lessons have you learned from how Matt Doyle moves on the internet? Because, I mean, he's, he's a bit older than you. And, uh, I mean, he's kind of retreat. He's retreated a bit, right?

He has retreated. Yeah, you're right. It's more a retreat to blue sky. Um, and he's still acerbic and biting on blue sky. But yeah, I, what I learned from him, I think, is that not everything has to be super serious. Like, even when, even when you're passing out burns, like, it's the internet. Yeah, I'm not taking it. taking any of this stuff personally, like when, when fan bases come after me or, you know,

people call me an artisanal corn dog. Like, it's all good. Like, that's just objectively funny. You know, like, that's just funny. So if people, if you can get somebody in that way, I think, do it. I think do it. And I'm, what I learned from him was like, take some swings, have fun. Like, it doesn't have to be serious. It can be sarcastic. And, you know, you can kind of have a little bit an a hole bit if you want. But I've always just figured I'm balancing that with, you know, what did you say in the intro? Good naturedness.

Yeah. So, you know, I just have fun and don't take it too seriously. And if somebody burns you, then block them. No, I'm just kidding. I mean, he blocks. I mute just on the record. I'm a muter. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. I have some personal questions to run through here. Yeah. Hit me. if we can. Your walk-up song as a high school baseball player was Lincoln Park. Where'd you find that?

It was you said it in some interview you did. Do you remember which song it was? Oh, yeah, of course. Come on. So I graduated in 2005, so we're talking about the early 2000s here. So hybrid theory was, I mean, that is an album. You can't mess around with hybrid theory. I vividly remember many summer nights

And I don't know look This is Tatao Self installed system in my car I got the 10 inch Two Pioneer Tins in the back We're just hoping We're just hoping that we're not going to Like have a fire based on my shoddy wiring

And I'm telling you hybrid theory Just absolutely pounds Like oh my God So mine was paper cut I think paper cut is the best walk-up song has that like first 15, 20 seconds that has like the Dend-da-Din-Din-Din-D-D-D-D-D-B-Boh!

And it just explodes. And that's perfect for a walk-up song because you need that slow build as you're making your way up to the plate and then it's just like, boom! Here we go. So, yeah, you really feel that one in your chest, I find. How were you as a hitter?

I'm right-handed, but I'm a lefty, hit left-handed. So that was my dad's, I think, like pride and joy in a lot of ways because, you know, where in Wichita, Kansas, he, like, had season tickets to the George Brett years. And, you know, George is a switch hitter, but more power from the left side. And, you know, a lefty swing just, it's like soccer. It just looks better.

So I was a good hitter. I was a good hitter. I mean, I'm like, you know, look, in high school baseball terms, it's not like I was some prodigy of any sort. But I was, like, a second team, all city, second baseman and third baseman, and was recruited to go to junior college in Kansas as a catcher. and was like, Dodge City is probably not where I'm going to spend ages 1920.

So I passed on that opportunity. Dodge City is directly next to a large processing facility for cattle and smells like it, 24-7. So yeah, yeah, baseball is a great sport. I coached my older son tonight, actually, in baseball. And I love playing baseball. You could not pay me to watch baseball on TV. I go to the ballpark and have a dog and a couple beers 100%,

but I'm all soccer now. So in Wichita, you are the biggest Wichita wings fan, is what I find. This is a MISL team, indoor soccer team. And they were really good. Not really good. They were a winning team consistently in the playoffs, but never able to get in the finals or win a championship. What was going on with them? So this is going to sound crazy.

The Wichita wings were never able to get over the hump because they were, for an indoor soccer team in Wichita, Kansas, again, they were two avant-garde. They were a team of, you would think they'd be like the St. Louis steamers who were like a bunch of American players who literally wanted to fight you. The Wichita Wings were all European.

It was like a bunch of Danish dudes and like English guys, but not like the, like, we're going to punch your face off English guys, like the sort of like preening, like well-dressed English guy. So they were very much of beautiful soccer team and it just, it didn't work for them in the playoffs. Like they just ran into buzz saws too often and they choked it out and like you know Steve Zungle was a monster and San Diego were incredible and I grew up on stories of the wings losing to all those teams and falling flat and

You know I got to watch in my days because I was born in 86. I got to watch Kim Rutvette and Chico Borja and Kevin Kuley and I think I think the like the last couple years of Eric Rasmussen who they called the pinball wizard and every time he scored they play the pinball wizard song which is a very very very formative memory. And then later on Dale Irvine, and yeah, my grandma and my aunt had season tickets and, you know, they took me to a ton of games. And that was my introduction to professional soccer. I remember they had Vuvazella's in those days. And I was like, what? This is, this sounds like, this is so terrible. Stop blowing that. And like the biggest highlight for me was one, getting nachos, like the, you know, the nachos and the cliggly plastic cup that has the, the dipping side and then the other side. And then number two was I would go in the basement of the Kansas Coliseum after

games and stand in line with my grandma and my aunt with one of those glossy photos and get it signed by a player. That was sick. Like I just, I loved it, man. It was so much fun. And my, my aunt was a season ticket from, season ticket holder from 7980, which is their original year. And this jersey, I'll turn so you can see here. This jersey, it's an Admiral, Wichita Wings jersey, it's the away jersey from 7980. It's an authentic jersey like the ones the players wore. It's signed by Roy Turner,

who was the coach for all of the glory years and basically started the club and was NSL in Dallas before that before he came to Wichita and started. He's actually still in Wichita. He's like the leader of their corn fairy golf event. It's signed by him, Kim Rutvett,

Kevin Kulee, I think, and somebody else. But it's like my prized I prize soccer memorabilia possession. It's, uh, I looked for years. Years and years and years to find that jersey. Speaking of golf, your handicap a couple years ago was 14, 15. How was that trended since then?

Oh, down. Well, up. Yeah, up. Not down. I played a lot of golf in the pandemic because I was in Kansas City and working remotely. And having this job has been less conducive to playing a lot of golf. And then I threw my back out last summer. And so I haven't.

Yeah, I know. And that's where the fishing hobby must have come from. That is exactly where the fishing hobby came from. But golf is a great game. Golf is a mental grind. And that's what I like about golf is that it's just you. And oftentimes when you look in the mirror, you're disgusted by what you see. And you have to bounce back and try to do something while feeling that way.

And fishing is just Zen. It's Zen, man. I put my phone down. Don't catch a lot. But, you know, we're just cast in and looking at water and hoping and praying and, you know, that's fun. So I could keep going on these personal questions. Guys, do you have any soccer ones left you want to throw in? Well, I, you know, the extra time intro was so iconic.

I wonder, like, how long after you saw that clip of Josie talking about cooking something up in the laboratory, How long after you saw that clip, did you know that you were going to use it? Oh, immediately. The exact moment. You know, I'm not sure there's a better sound bite in the entirety of MLS history. Like, I think, I think you're right. Like, I just, everything about it was, it was, you couldn't have cooked it up in the laboratory. Like, it could only come from one person, Josie, intoxicated on the back of a championship in Toronto just doing his thing. Like, are you crazy?

Are you dumb, brother? Like, what happened is that David Goss was there. So Goss was there on assignment to cover that parade because he had been covering Toronto FC for like the last two or three years a ton as we did those live shows that we used to do on Facebook and YouTube. I think it was MLS. I should know this. It'll come to me.

But it was like the, basically the precursor to MLS season past. We did studio shows. And we would send him out there and he would do sideline and interviews. And so he was there. So we were watching it live in the office. And I remember when it happened, and I was just like clip it right now. Like clip that now.

It's going in the entry. It's like forever going to be there and we've never been able to take it out. I just think we need more Josie's personally. Like I love Josie. I love that Josie called us out. I love that Josie like he just says whatever the hell he wants to say. What did he say exactly? Who did he come after?

The tweet. It was a stray on Bobby. That's right. So why we will connect? Why don't you just go on extra time with somebody, right? Yeah, yeah. which was really unfair to Bobby I really like that part of it

like I would argue with Josie to the till I was blue in the face about that but the fact that he was tweeting about us like and that was also the Bobby Warshall run remember like Schmetser was calling out Bobby like Bobby was he was deep inside the brains of some people

around Major League Soccer it was super impressive he's an absolute monster by the way in terms of content creation and just as a person like I love Bobby I love working with him and I was so sad when that ended like we he's the sort of person where you'll like him and I would have like a like we'd be yelling at each other and take like five minutes and cool down and come back and like have the best ideation and like execution moment of all time and like we're good like

we just both wanted we're both very type A and wanted a certain thing and Bobby maybe even more so but anyway that's enough what would you what would you yell about no it's not enough we're anything yeah anything like uh any soccer related content decisions for sure. Bobby felt very strongly about how we should do certain things and what we should talk about. And I felt equally strongly. And it's not personal. It never is. Like

sometimes it is. It's not it wasn't personal between us. I would say. He's still a great friend of mine and I'm just so impressed by him as just a thinker. He thinks in ways that I could never even like fathom.

He's a serious man. His brain just goes places and like makes connections and I'm like that, whoa, okay, we're in a new territory. I have got to adapt. And credit to Josie for being Josie because I don't think, I think it takes FU money to do some of the things that Josie does and bless him for getting that FU money. You know, like he's riding the wave and we need more guys like Josie. We need more guys that just say exactly what they think and let the chips fall where they may after that. Like, but I do think that takes money.

I think sometimes that takes money because you got to have, you got to feel like you can do it without suffering a huge consequence. Let me go ahead and read the tweet real quick. I got to pull it up here because truly this is probably my favorite U.S. soccer moment since I've really been following this thing. And I just got to read it in its entirety really quick. Sorry. Taylor Twelman National Team Career was laughable.

Beasley should be that analyst or me or him. told me need to be on extra time radio with Bobby Warshaw. He a white boy with Connects. Stop giving him a platform. Man. I love that tweet so much. It's Josie, man.

It's Josie. It's purely Josie. And that's what I wish for basically all of our, all of the people and players and individuals within our little ecosystem is for them to be able to purely be themselves. And he was pure. he was purely himself in that moment. When Jesse Marsh was doing

corresponding work on CBS for the Champions League, I took that tweet, etched out Taylor Tollman, and put Jesse's Jesse Marsh's name in there. I can see that this is a formative part of of the lore

for you, Vince, and I appreciate that. Without a doubt, bro. We need more of that, for sure. I agree. I agree. Why do you think people care about the NBA so much? It's a soap opera. It's an absolute soap opera. Guys are just, in the new era of podcast,

it's just a snite fest. They're just, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. I have something to say about Warshaw, which is I was impressed by his humility, I guess, when he came to play pickup soccer at a scuffed event in Orlando

before the qualifier where we beat Panama 5 to 1. And he was so concerned, I could tell he was so concerned that he was, that people were going to think, he was trying to show them up that when he came out on the field he was going like i mean he's a professional soccer player right he's like a million miles better than everybody else on the on the

little court but he was going like didn't take it out of first gear mostly i think because he was just trying to be nice you know he's a great teammate is the way i would i would describe uh bobby he's a he's a really good teammate and then it depends on you know that being a a good teammate is dependent on your environment, right? Like, that might mean really demanding a lot of people, and he's willing to do that because he's willing to do the work and grind and be that guy. Or it might mean in that case, being the person that doesn't make somebody else feel like shit. Right.

But, like, the most fun thing about playing with soccer with Bobby, and we played a lot in those days, we'd go pick up as a group of a bunch of people on, like, Saturday, Sunday mornings, is that he will, he's very competitive, but he'll immediately he'll sort of like tactically set things out and then he'll be like okay well this is what we're doing

and then he'll be back there just general go go go press press press press you know he's like really directing you from the back and honestly as someone who's not that great at soccer that that was fun basically I was like getting joysticked by a pro press here okay sure I can do that move to here okay show for it now okay yeah

it's helpful right yeah there's a Bobby Warshot quote that plays in my head almost every time we podcast. I think one time on Extra Time Radio, he said people talking over each other is the cardinal sin of podcasting. And anytime it happens to happen

on this year's scuff podcast, I'm like, let Bobby down. Let Bobby down. Oh my God. That was such a great era of the show because it wasn't video yet. So it was just me, Doyle, Goss, and Bobby in like basically the green room

of our old studios in Midtown, which was just like a small room with a couch in a couple chairs. And we were just, I mean, we, that, that, it would go anywhere. It could go anywhere, like Bobby would take it anywhere. Doyle would get his hackles raised on something. That was in a good goss era of just, I don't know, there were just, it was a good personality mix. That's a fond, a fond memory.

And I'll never forget the Shaktar-Denesque moment in that very room. I believe it was, was, I think was Doyle that said that, like, Shack Tardinesk wouldn't win in a molest while they were balling through the Champions League with like Willian and a bunch of other guys. We're just like, what, what are you on, dude? Like, what is wrong with you? There's just so many little moments like that that I'll remember forever. Just because it's a bunch of buddies, it's like when you're drinking beers at the bar. You're like, this guy, for the next five years, we're going to talk about this.

That's the foursome I think of when I think of Extra Time Radio. I know a lot of other people have been involved over the years, but that's like my, that's my experience of the show. It's good for some. It's a good for some. All right. Hey, any other questions from you guys? Vince, Chris? Do you have any book recommendations about the Balkans?

I absolutely do. So this started for me. Soccer is one of many obsessions. I'm the sort of person when I find something. I need to know everything. And I don't. I can't stop in many cases. And the Balkans arose from me from an obsession

with the Ottoman Empire. which obviously ruled over the Balkans for centuries, and it was sort of a bad actor for many there. And so I started with, if I was recommending someone down this path, I would say start with destiny disrupted by Tamim Ansari. It's basically a modern history of the world through Islamic eyes as opposed to sort of the Christian history that we're often taught from the rise of Muhammad to the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

That book is, that's a good book. And then after you read that, you go into 1453, by Roger Crowley, that's the taking of then Constantinople and the transition from the Byzantine rule to Islamic rule. And once you do that, you're like, well, what the hell was happening in the Balkans? And when you get at that point, you're a child of the 90s like, I am and you vividly remember the Balkan War on TV news. You can go into a couple that really kind of wet your beak as far as like real narrative and first person accounts. And that would be my war gone by. I miss it so by Anthony Lloyd, who was a British soldier looking for action in the 90s.

And basically it was like a mercenary who goes in and witness. is a bunch of these things. And then you could also go a more traditional route, which is Love Thy Neighbor by Peter Moss, M-A-A-A-S-S. And that's more a traditional embedded journalism account. And then recently... You were not joking about your rabbit hole treatment of these topics. No, no.

I can go a lot of different places down a lot of rabbit holes, but this is one of my recent ones. Balkan Ghosts by Robert Kaplan, who was, I believe the Reuters correspondent in the Balkans in the late 80s into early 90s. It's very much like a one-man Gonzo journalism travel log based around

sort of experiencing the modern day effects of the historical beef and cultural exchange throughout the region. And it has an emphasis on Hungary and Bulgaria which you don't often get.

I'm more up on like the Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Albania, Kosovo side of things. And if you want that, Yugoslavia death of a nation, I'm in the middle of and have been in the middle of for a year.

This is me trying to get my momentum going again because this is a really, really good blow-by-blow of the years leading up to and the years during the Balkan wars, but it's extremely academic. And so it's like what you might read in a probably, I don't know, like you're studying it in college. But it's fascinating. You're reading all these books and events, suddenly you're on a really heavy academic.

Yeah, I hit Amazon. Yeah. And, you know, I'm in the, like, bibliography or whatever. And I'm like, oh, this is, you got a lot from this. So next up is Black Lamb and Grey Falcon by Rebecca West, which is like the original Gonzo journalism, travelogue, historical account, and social examination.

It's like it birthed the genre just before World War II and she traveled around the Balkans and did all this in then Yugoslavia. And then I have the bridge on the Drina by Ivo Andrich. I just bought, and it's a Nobel Prize-winning novel about basically the suffering that the Bosnian people have undergone for the past five centuries.

Now, do you kind of move, have you gone down various history rabbit holes or is this the key one? What other type of rabbit holes do you have, I guess? Well, fishing was a rabbit hole, is a rabbit hole. It continues to be a rabbit hole for me. I would say that I really have been curious about the Middle East, and a lot of this comes from a starting point of the Ottoman Empire

and then just goes into modern-day current events and then tracking back and being like, well, why is that the way it is? Why are the borders of Afghanistan this way? Why is, you know, why is their historic? What is the Shia-Sunni divide? And then I go and on Amazon late at night and buy a bunch of books. And then once I read those books, then I start going down another rabbit hole. The one that the group chat makes fun of you the most probably is when I started on the Ottoman Empire,

I went to the Armenian Genocide is one that I went. very deeply down, just to understand how and why. And that's really a, it's really a, like, sort of a warning tale that leads into World War II in particular. So, yeah, I mean, I'm just obsessive. I really am. Like, once I find something I like, I need to know more. And that is exactly what soccer is for me. And if it has historical context to it and societal context at all, that's sort of my, that's the good shit.

You did once, in one interview I was watching you, you referred to soccer as the long deepest rabbit hole of your life. I think it's probably too late now. Was there ever a point down that rabbit hole where you ever considered turning back? Or are you, once you're in, you're in? No, I'm in. I'm not getting out of it. I think a lot of it comes down to community.

Once I got in, you sort of look around and you're like, and that's sort of the whole out in the open joke about sickos and calling ourselves sickos. It's because we are, but like the joy is to be surrounded by other people who share the same affliction. And we have our own little languages and our own little tribal stuff. And that's really what keeps me coming back, is going on site and meeting people and talking

to people and talking to people like you guys. And obviously, you can tell I miss extra time because I won't shut up. But yeah, I don't think I'll pull out. I don't think I'll pull out. And I've never thought about walking away in any way. It just from the very moment I got into it, it was like, you know, it was history. it was examining the differences between cultures and upbringings and individuals. Like, why is this player from this country this way?

And once you go down that, it never ends because the game never ends. Well, bring it back. Bring ETR back. That's right. Well, I'll try. It's the movement we're starting. Or you've started and we're jumping along. Or maybe a podcast about the Balkans seems to be in my future here. It sounds like you're ready for it.

You should start a book club podcast. I think people would join and see what's Weeby reading right now. I'm impressed. I might get weird. I might get weird. It sounds like it does get dark often. Yeah, it's, now that I'm talking about it, I think it's a... I think, well, you center your reading around the Balkans.

It's going to go someplace. Well, but it's not all dark. And I think that's the beauty of it. It's like, it's not all dark. But I do seem to have a tendency to want to examine why people do. things that I, maybe that I can't understand. And then once you start, you know, that's the human condition. You keep going.

Andrew, thank you so much. Thanks everybody for listening. Thanks to Andrew Weeby. We'll see you.