Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #600: A pre-Gold Cup check-in with Greg Velasquez

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Greg joins Belz to talk about who they're excited to see play over the next month, why Josh Sargent was left off, and respond to several listener questions as the USMNT embarks on the Gold Cup and the final 12 months before World Cup 2026. As usual, Greg zigs while most everyone else zags. He's not panicking.send us a voicemail we can play and respond to on the show: www.speakpipe.com/ScuffedPodcast Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff podcast where we talk about U.S. soccer. The USMNT kicks off this Saturday against Turkey and then plays Switzerland on Tuesday and then we head into the Gold Cup. We're missing Pulisic and Wes and Wea and Gio and Peppy and Baligan and Jedi. World Cup is 12 months away. Yudis. Brother Yudis. We're missing Eunice. Yeah.

Brother Yusuf. We are a fan base. Not so much. in crisis as we are a fan base in limbo. We're still here. That much we can say. Beyond that, I don't, you know, it's unclear. I mean, we're still here.

We're still here. You and me are here. We're here. You're in a car in central Iowa. I'm in rural Georgia. But yeah, good news for you. You've heard his voice already. I have Greg Velasquez here, and he's going to give us the unvarnished truth.

of what all this chaos means, straight science. Greg, how are you? I am actually good. So, you know, you said the fan base is in limbo, and it's like, man,

uh, the fan base I feel like has evaporated. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, you know, maybe it just is in my head, but it feels that way. Yeah.

We're still a fan. I am too. That's, that's the thing. I'm, I'm actually jazzed about these friendlies. And I'm jazzed about the gold cup. In spite of,

because of whatever, uh, the roster looks like for the, this tournament and these friendlies. I'm psyched for it. Awesome. Yeah. I'm actually pretty excited too.

I mean, one, we got a bunch of questions from listeners, which is fantastic. Thank you for everybody who sent those in as voice in the voicemail format. One of them was unsigned and it said, what did it say? Are you bored with the national team?

And I deleted it because I didn't want to play it because I thought it'd be too. It was too, I don't know, too negative, maybe it's slightly accusatory towards us. But anyway, I've read it. I've read it in my own voice. But the answer is definitely no. I'm not bored with the national team. The answer is no. Do you hear that beeping just now?

You should put your seatbelt on, I think. I'm not bored with the national team. I just want to be clear about that. I'm actually pretty interested, like you said, in these friendlies coming up in the tournament. Yeah, and there's there's there's there's, we'll get into which specific players, uh, we're interested in. But, you know, we've got, we've got a manager who, uh, is high profile, as we've talked about a lot, uh, who has not had a high profile or at least a successfully high profile, uh, beginning of his tenure, which is interesting to me. I think that's super interesting to,

to like answer some questions about, uh, a manager that we all assume is very good at managing soccer teams. And so what's the next step after a really, really poor outcome this early in his tenure? So I think that's super interesting. And I actually even kind of think that the general despair of the fan base that were a big part of that community, I actually kind of think that's interesting too.

To see the levels of aggressive indifference as like almost the most positive response because there's also some extreme negativity well beyond indifference. Yeah, it turns out the negativity wasn't, you know, entirely dependent on Greg Burrhalter. No, Greg Burrhalter actually served as a fantastic shield or like a rod, a lightning rod to absorb all negativity and prevent it from hitting the actual pool of players.

there were some that took it. Shack Moore took quite a bit for the lightning for some reason. Yeah, poor Shaq. But Greg Buralter took a lot of it. And, you know, as we thought about it, he certainly deserved some criticism. But he took all of the criticism.

And now the player's like, oh, this is what happens when we don't have that guy taking all of it. We're going to hear about some things. I don't know how much they actually care about hearing about things, but as a fan within the community. We see,

We're seeing players take quite a bit of shtick. Yeah. A mysterious cohort. They are. The players. Okay. Well, before we get into all that, and there's a lot to get into, I got to make some announcements.

Number one, Vince Waki and I will be in Nashville on Tuesday. So, yeah, Tuesday, and we'll be tailgating with a pony keg. And the policy is open door. Come on down. Say hello. If we're feeling ambitious, we may record something in the parking lot. The plan right now is we'll set up. I'm going to give you the location.

We're going to set up in the lot on the northwest corner of Craighead and Bransford, which is just southwest of the stadium. It's across the street from the dog park. It's where we met last time we were there, which was for the Ghana friendly back when young Giovanni was healthy and effective and scoring goals. Halcyon days, those were. Number two, the Monday Review is going to get crowded out by game recaps for most of the next month, at least. So Waki and Vincent will still be recording pods with me and others.

And we're going to bring in, I think we're going to bring in Charlie Bome for one of the recaps. But the Monday format is taking a break at least until the news from Europe picks back up later this summer. Of course it'll be back full strength when the club season returns. So no worries there. And then number three, thank you to all our patrons. And if you are able and want to see scuff to be a healthy institution, you know, we're all talking about institutions these days. please consider joining the Patreon. $5 and $10 patrons are the lifeblood of the podcast.

We need your help. Thanks for considering it. All right. Let's get the roster sorted. And then, I mean, we did do a roster episode already, but not with you. So let's go through it again. And then we'll get into some questions and, you know, I guess some answers, sort of. So just a couple days ago, Potch,

added Walker Zimmerman, Nathan Harriol, and Paxton Aronson to the roster, you know, ahead of these friendlies, replacing DeWan Jones, a fullback, Sean Zawatsky, a midfielder, and Fuller and Balligan, an ankle who has an ankle, obviously he's a striker, he has an ankle injury. So the roster is now. The goalkeepers are Chris Brady, Matt Freeze, Zach Stephan, and Matt Turner. Yeah, because Shulte had already been replaced. So he would have been...

Schulte was replaced by Brady. By Brady, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the defenders are Max Arfston, Sirgenio Dest, Alex Freeman, Nathan Harrell, of course, Mark McKenzie, Tim Ream, Chris Richards, Miles Robinson, and the aforementioned Walker Zimmerman. Welcome back Zimmerman.

Yeah, deserved, I think. Yeah, is there like a party that worries that, without the man bun, he won't have quite the same strength. Yes. I feel like that's not unprecedented historically. No, yeah. It's an ancient truth. Okay.

But we'll see. I love Walker Zimmerman. I'm actually really happy to see him back. Yeah. And I think some people are interested in Nathan Harriol. Alex Freeman's an intriguing, very young player, 20-year-old, right back for Orlando City. You know, big welcome to Serginio Dest coming back after a long injury layoff. And, you know, Max Arston is there too.

Midfielders are Brendan Aronson, Tyler Adams, Sebastian Burhalter. That's kind of an interesting storyline. Johnny Cardoso, Luca de La Torre, Diego Luna, Jack McGlynn, Quinn Sullivan, and Malique. Tillman. Malik already not yet, Tillman. You know? And that's, I mean, there's some big, big sort of narratives in that midfield for this national team and its, and its chances in 2026. Let's hear, let's hear, let's hear the, the 10,000 foot view of those narratives. So you're thinking of a Burr-alter?

I mean, the Burr-Halter one is great for content. the Malik and Cardoso ones maybe more relevant for performance but yeah I mean it is fun that Seb Berhalter is on this roster that's incredibly fun it would have been more fun if it was

Seb and Gio together in camp of course like when you're talking about content and drama fun for everybody but them not that I think that those two would have difficulties but it would just be fantastic again for the for the sphere for the for the folks like us orbiting this team and all the things we could say about it.

I mean, it would probably be super boring and Gio would just be his normal, pleasant self that he has been. It seems like since guitar. I feel like that's I agree. Yeah. But no, the Malik and Johnny those are the those are the guys who like should be should be able to be like guys for this. team not just like okay well we've got west and now we have some backups with johnny and for west where we have a backup with

Malik for geo like those are guys who should come in and be able to be like I should be written in ink and it should be somebody else who has to try to like fend to me or take my spot uh and again we'll get into all the caveats that always come with gold cup like we should

waltz through our group stage matches and and no one can really make that case in those games uh but they should at least be able to make the case that they're starting a case. Yeah, I mean, Cardoso constantly rumored to be in the, you know, in the sights of big clubs, had an outstanding season at Real Batis. Tillman, as I don't know, I feel like I say it every week.

He's the most fun per minute of any player in the pool. just, you know, big brothering the entire erud of his he for the past season when he wasn't hurt. Yeah, and I should make clear too. I know I said Wes with Johnny. That's just because Wes isn't here. I don't know that those two are necessarily really competing for the same spot even. But it's just the idea of like, you know, we think of Wes as this nailed on, you know, key player for us, which he is. But there's no reason that Johnny shouldn't be able to make a case that he is.

also that level of a player. But he's got to do it still. He hasn't done it for the national teams. He's had some, you know, borderline shockers. And he hasn't had that performance that is like, okay, this guy is here for us. He is someone who will deliver, whatever that might look like for the role that he plays. It might not look like a two goal to assist game for Johnny. But it should look like he can be an anchor point or, you know, something that sort of sparked some level of like,

Yes, this guy is a guy. Yeah. He's got a boss, something. Maybe the entire midfield. That would be ideal. And then the forwards, so with Balagans exit, we've got Paxton Aronson, Patrick Ajamong,

Damien Downs, Brian White, and Haji Wright. And, you know, I mean, maybe this is the right time to play a question which I'm going to do. Hey guys, this is Aparo from California, even though I still think of myself as a Pennsylvanian. But here's my question for y'all. For this Gold Cup and the roster,

what do you think is Pott's motivation? Do you guys think he's sending a message to the guys who didn't make it? Or do you think this is a motivational device? Or do you think he actually thinks, for example, that on a roster without bolligan or peppy, that Josh Sargent still shouldn't make this roster. So, yep, thank you. So is this gamesmanship by Potch or does he really just not rate Sergeant?

What do you think? I guess where I kind of come down is I expect it's a little of both. I think it's something where he doesn't rate Sergeant enough that Sergeant. can get away with laxadaisical performance. You know, that's like, I feel like, you know, we kind of think Wes had a laxadaisical performance in the Nation's League. And I think if Wes were available, he would be there. I don't think that message would be sent to West.

But if you're Josh Sergeant, you know, we'll get into like, if you're Joe Scali and you're not seizing a game, like we can find somebody else, guys. Like you guys aren't so, so up there that I have to have you. if you're not going to come in and dominate. And it might be a little harsh. Like, again, a lot of times the striker takes the brunt of the criticism when we can't score, like in that Panama match,

when a lot of the problems are further back the field to create those dangers. But when it comes to Josh Sargent, I was absolutely surprised he wasn't on the original roster. And although we had, you might know, if you're paying close to tension, we had shifted him, we had downgraded him from a roster lock on the playbill to watch the phone. And he was, that phone didn't ring for Josh or it did. It was, it was bad news being delivered.

Because he wasn't, he hasn't been good. Like, he hasn't been outstanding for us at any point. I still don't know that he's ever been bad for the U.S. even in the 2019 Burr-Halter days. But he's never been outstanding. And so it's kind of like you got to, you got to ask the question. that one of our favorite national team mothers asked when she talked to Jordan Pfeck about being left off the World Cup roster. And she said, well, were you scoring goals?

And he said, no, I wasn't scoring goals for the U.S. So she's like, well, there you go. Yeah, I mean, if you're Josh Sergeant, you haven't made yourself undropable. And you can point to your club form, which has been very good for two years running now. But you have to at some point deliver, or you at least leave yourself. open to being left off. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder how much his love for the game of golf is playing a role in this, too.

You know, could be. But I think you're right. Yeah. He, uh, I love, you know, I've, I am sort of biased towards Sergeant because in the early days of scuffed, he was scoring goals for the U-17s and the U-20s. It was, you know, it was beautiful. And Bertha Bremant. No, I don't know if he was playing with it.

Was he scoring for their U-19s or just he straight into there? Yeah, he was for a little bit. Yeah, he was still Scott Gallagher player back when he was playing in the U-20, U-17 World Cup, I think. Or maybe the U-20 World Cup, but he scored those nice goals in the U-20 World Cup. And I was like, this is a guy, you know, this is a striker. And he looked like he looked like the guy. And so it's hard to let him go from an emotional point of view.

but maybe he'll make maybe he'll come back maybe he'll get that move to roma and he'll come into the next camp uh whatever that is and change potch's mind but i i think you're right potch if you can't really argue with uh dropping a striker who doesn't score for four years or five years whatever it is um okay now let's i mean let's sort of zoom out a little bit because uh a couple of people sent a similar question i think i'll pull play both of them just to sort of honor the listener here. First one comes from Jesse Howe. Bills, Velasquez.

Jesse Howe here from the western shore at the Chesapeake Bay in Maryland, about 90 minutes south of our nation's capital. Jens, please, give me a reason to be excited about this upcoming Gold Cup. With the amount of injuries now with Balagan and no-shows, but Pooley and others, and the drab affair that typically is particularly the group stage of the Gold Cup. Please, give me a reason to be fired up about this because I tell you what, the passion is just not there right now. And I probably speak for many others. Thanks, Jens. Appreciate all you do.

I just want to say, Jesse, longtime friend of the pod, and when you lose Jesse Howe, or you start to lose Jesse Howe, there's a problem. That's a problem right there. We're going to bring him back. We're going to bring him back. We're going to bring him back Jesse. We're going to bring back tons of people. I'm confident of it. And, and, you know, when we talk, we kind of touched on some of this already, but, uh, Balogam going down hurts a lot, uh, for, for sort of the excitement. Because, you know, I'm thinking he has, he hasn't played for Pachino yet. Uh, his last games were, uh, he left it half, before half time against Uruguay and the Kopa group stage. And then he played the lame duck games in September, uh, I guess New Zealand and Canada.

Uh, but he hasn't played for Pachitino. So that one, while that one hurts, it's going to be kind of fun to see, like, Again, can some of these other guys that we are counting on to be guys, can they make Damien Downs look amazing in the group stage of a Gold Cup? Because Gianluca Busio made Giazzi's artists look great. You know, we can make people look good in a Gold Cup. Jesus for, Jesus for Air scored seven goals in the Gold Cup. Can these guys make Damien Downs look good?

Can they make Big Pat look unstoppable? That's what I want to see. And so the group stage will come with those caveats, but then we'll play real teams in the knockout. Costa Rica or Mexico in a knockout game. And then Canada in a knockout game, Panama, and like we're going to play solid Concaf teams. And it's like we should be able to get some of our fans back with some exciting displays.

Our fans were really excited about some January showings where we looked exciting. We should be able to deliver that again. And that will be fun. I will have fun watching that no matter what the, that 2026 knockout ramifications are. Like, I want to have fun watching guys pant some people in this tournament. Yeah. Yeah, the other side of the drab affair coin is that you do get to see our team score a lot of goals in the group stage. You know?

That's the hope. It's drab in that the competition isn't that great. But, yeah, I mean, we should be able to score some goals in the group stage. Let me play another one in a similar vein. Hey, guys, Trailand here from Jackson, Mississippi. Long time fan of the pod. I'm probably not alone in being at an all-time low for my enthusiasm for the USM&T. So here's my question.

What's something tangible to look for during this Gold Cup that can help me reignite my confidence of this team going into the World Cup year? And please don't say results because that's a big part of the problem. Thanks, guys. One of the other tangible things we can look for, and it's a guy we haven't even mentioned yet for all this talk about what we're excited to see, is Diego Luna. This is a guy who has delivered entertainment every time he's stepped on the field for the U.S. And so can we see Diego Luna

perform at a level where we end up starting him in the later stages of this tournament, where then he becomes a realistic player that would challenge starters for the full strength theme in the sense that if they don't show up, he will take their spot. And that's kind of what we want. We want guys to be like,

oh, I have to deliver. I can't just keep coming to camp, putzing around, having fun, having a little vacation. Because Diego Luna is not here for vacation. He will play with a mask on with blood pouring down his face,

and he will set up chances for teammates. And I have to make sure I can also do those things. Yeah. So the tangible thing is, the tangible thing to look for is a number of Diego Luna assists while blood is pouring down his face. That's a tangible thing you can look for from this team.

He's also been developing as a player for his club, I think. Pablo Mastrani called him the guy for Real Salt Lake now, and he's doing it on both sides of the ball. Pablo's not throwing around compliments, you know, just to make people feel good. He didn't even play, he didn't even play Luna that much, you know, like a couple seasons ago. He's just building up the price tag bells because Luna's bound for another one.

No, I have no idea. I am going to wet blank of myself, of course, because I always have to because I can't just be straight up hype guy. Guys could have tournaments like that that we're super excited about and still just be Matthew Hoppe. Like we were excited about Matthew Hoppe adding some spark in the 2021 Gold Cup as we won it. And we all know how his career went after that. Yeah, but there wasn't predetermined. You know, his flameout wasn't, wasn't, it could have gone a different way if, you know, something had gone differently. Absolutely.

But it's always, it's sort of always there that like, anybody who that were excited about, Paxton Arrington, I know there's a lot of folks excited about Paxton making it now, getting his injury replacement call it. And it's like, these guys could be really good in this tournament and still really not be anything that is going to help us in a World Cup match. So that's sort of that always lurking danger within the hype machine. Yeah. Well, I, you know, to add another reason to care, I think we should be pretty excited about Damian Downs. I know, like I said, I wish Sergeant were here. Going to miss Pepey and Balligan a lot. But Downs, you know, he got his helped get his team promoting.

He's voted 11 goals, five assists on the season, and in Bundesliga 2, double Bundesliga, for those of you. Thank you. Long-time listeners. So now, Coln is going back up to the proper Bundesliga, and as is Hamburg, which is kind of cool, because now they're derby with St. Pauli is back. But Downs is, if you haven't watched him much, he's really good. He's so good with both feet that it's kind of difficult to tell which is his stronger. he scored a really good goal and got a brilliant assist against Bayer Leverkusen in the Pocall. So that's one of the best teams in the Bundesliga.

He looked, you know, he was a high-impact player in that game. That game went to extra time before Leverkusen got the victory. He's pretty good in the air. Not a real high-volume sort of possession striker, but honestly, that kind of describes all of our strikers at this point. Like Sergeant. I'm good. Josh Sergeant. Yeah, but even him.

Even him, like, he's capable of being a high volume possession guy, but he doesn't really play that way for Norwich. I mean, he does a little bit of nice stuff, but we're talking like 15 passes a game. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And anyway, it's not clear Potch wants that at this point. I think maybe Posh just wants, you know, somebody who can stretch the defense. I don't know. We'll see.

Well, I think Downs is exciting. I love the Downs show. I love the Downs show because we just talked about like Matthew Hoppy for. example. And it was like that when you say it wasn't inevitable. That was the route Hoppe could have gone. Hopi could have stayed with Shalka through the relegation, banged in goals in the secondary Bundesliga and potentially made his way back up with Shalka into the primary league. So, you know, this, this is like a taste of like that kind of a guy. It can he can he can he translate this to the national team? What's it going to look like in the

the Bundesliga, I imagine those goals might dry up a little bit. Of course, yeah. But that still isn't, even if they do, that doesn't mean you just write him off like, oh, no, he's zero goals, two months into the Bundesliga. He was never anything because we just don't have anyone else who is just dropping goals in a top league. Of course, that's been the story since time immemorial, since Brian McBride. Yeah, what, I mean, Sergeant scored like, I think just shy of 20 in the championship.

So 11 then the two Bundes League It's kind of the same ballpark really He did have I want to describe a play from that From that polkaal match because he gets a ball You know, Leverkusen's all over Coln in this game As you might imagine

And there's a ball played up the sideline Kind of clipped up the sideline For him And he takes it over his shoulder Like a wide receiver with his right boot And touches it first touch takes it inside, you know, eliminates two defenders with that. Like receiving it over the shoulder like a wide receiver, one touch into space,

and then it takes him onto his left foot, and then he plays a really nice through ball for the guy to score, for his teammate to score. And it's just electric stuff. I mean, the broadcasters were going nuts. I saw that last night, and I was like, and I put it on Twitter as my one tweet of the month, basically. You're welcome, Vince. And then that's it. You know, I'm excited about him. All right. Let's see. Here's another. This is a fun question. I think the answer is easy. Spoiler alert, but here it is. Brian from the DFW area here. Great question I saw on the

Discord was whether to take the over-under on number of World Cup starters on this Gold Cup roster if the line is at five and a half. Take the over or the under on that. Okay, so those of you who may mess with Texas, DFW is Dallas-Forth. That's what that means. What do you think, five and a half over or under? So everyone was like, this is great.

Five and a half is perfect here, because you've got Richards and you've got Dest and you got Tyler as three. And then you've got probably your starting goalkeeper in this group at four. and then now it's like, okay, is our other centerback partner here? Probably. That might be five. You got Johnny, you got Malik. So it's basically like we'll want, well, two of a centerback, Johnny Malik, bus through.

And it doesn't, I mean, do you see anyone else? You just, you just talked about, does that Damien Downs highlight push you to the over? Are you like, down's could be our guy? Downs, that Downs highlight doesn't push me to the over, but, but I think, I think one of those other centerbacks is going to be there. I mean, one of McKenzie, Reem or Zimmerman or Robinson? Miles, yeah. You said, we just need one of those four to come through and then one more player. Yeah.

And that could be either Johnny or Malik. Yeah, I'm taking the over. I'm hammering the over. Or Luna. hammering the over because again there's also a real chance that you know one of the other locked in guys we're thinking about it's just not available like

Pulis could just not be I mean someone could be a hurt at which point probably the next man up is in this it's in this camp yeah so you're taking the over as well I think I'm taking the over and I'm my surprise guy who's going to push us to six is

Diego Luna I just think Pogloos Potch does love him yeah as he should It's like, I mean, that's, it's still a reach. It's these 20% to be a World Cup rostered player. Now, probably higher than that now, right? I'd say higher than 20%, but I don't know. I don't know.

It's crazy that we're a year out and we, it's like, there is a lot of just like, yeah, could be, I don't know. Yeah. I think, yeah. Yeah. I feel like another player who's, you know, maybe like a 1% chance of making the World Cup roster. But, you know, 75% chance of bringing us joy over the next month is Jack McGlynn. Because, and so just to go back to the question about give me a reason to care or a reason to be excited, I think he is fun enough of a soccer player that it's, that people. should be interested in watching him play over this next month.

I mean, the way he scores from distance is there's just like nothing even close to it in our, in our pool. And yeah, he can't really play defense, but. Well, hopefully, hopefully this team does seize on like the fun. Like, let's just, let's just at least be entertaining. A lot of us are long shots for 2026. They got the horses. They got the Clydesdales for that.

We get entertained. Mm-hmm. You're saying Tyler and Johnny are the Clydesdale's. They do all the work. Are you saying they're entertainment Clydesdales? Yeah, I mean, those are just, those are show ponies, Clydesdales. They're just entertainment horses. I guess they're, I guess they are, they do get a lot of work done because they're so big, right?

I got my, my, you know, horse knowledge is abysmal, a shambles. I mean, basically, all of mine comes from beer commercials. That's the extent of my horse knowledge. I mean, clearly mine as well. Let's see, here's a modest proposal from Allie in Idaho, kind of longer term. Hey, guys, this is Allie in Idaho. I am calling in today because I've been thinking a lot recently, as probably many of us have, about the general vibes of our men's team and how it may be lackluster at best.

and I was wondering what you think, or if you think, it could be beneficial for our men's team to play in smaller stadiums now, you know, for scheduling purposes and with the World Cup coming up now, maybe not possible in the immediate future. But I am wondering if maybe just hypothetically, if you think it would be good to have them in smaller stadiums where sickos and the diehards can really pump them up a little more. Maybe the atmosphere can feel more intimate and maybe a little more exciting. It's not something we get a lot with those, but I think anyone who's been to a smaller, maybe semi-pro game can attest to, that can kind of be a cool atmosphere. So I wonder if you guys think that doing something like that

could revive some of the hype or get people amped up a little better and maybe inject that into our team. I love just the, because I think you're picking, you know, representative questions here from what's admitted. And I love that they're like predominantly vibes based. Like we are, we are so far removed from the days of like, who should, like, what should the midfield 3B comparing this trio versus this configuration.

People are beyond that right now. And they're just like, should we ever care about this team again? Why does it continue to hurt me? Should the national team play in Boise or Des Moines or Chattanooga? Which has happened actually before, but a long time ago. So what they got to do, I mean, if we're going to, you go small stadium, but in a big city. You don't come to Des Moines. much as I would love that.

You got to you got to go to a city and then just play in like a like a Juco football stadium. Like that's the play. Right. Yeah. I mean like I feel like the galaxy stadium is too big right now. Yeah. You get 10,000 people to show up and in your in your cooking.

Yeah. You have bubble heads like you go full minor league baseball on it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I was, I don't know if you listened to the interview, but when I talked to John Polis, the guy who used to be the press, the press officer for US, USM&T, I know a lot. I know, I see the numbers, so I know a lot of people didn't listen to the interview. But it was great. You should go back and listen to it. He talked about his time covering the, um, the Portland timbers back when, when they were in the NASL in the 70s.

And it was their first, maybe first season, second season. they went to the final, the NASL final and lost to the Tampa Bay Rowdies. But the coach would have, I mean, and it was just a total phenomenon in Portland. Like they were getting like 50,000, like as the playoff run happened, you know, like 50,000. I don't know, a lot of people at these games. But there was one time where they, people were waiting in line to buy tickets to the semifinal, I think, which was in Portland. And the coach was a real, like, showman. And he'd made the team go for a job.

along the line of people waiting to buy tickets and they're just like giving everybody five and you know they did all kinds of tricks like that and you know really tried to amp up the fun and I feel like that kind of thing that sort of thing would be is kind of in order at this point yeah because that stuff that stuff plays yeah that would totally play with the sickos so if you went to a big city played in a 10,000 seat stadium and actually like immersed yourself in the fans that were there uh not only were to like play to those fans like Like that stuff, those publicity stunts, as we see in all walks of American life at the moment. Like publicity stunts play.

They do. Yeah. More publicity stunts, please. But I do appreciate, Allie, you know, being solutions-oriented. You know, she's not just, not just Kavetch and she's got an idea. Appreciate that, Allie. How strong, this is just a question I thought of. How strongly do we feel about the way the Gold Cup has been?

been disrespected. Club World Cup was essentially designed to conflict with it. Players are now skipping it. More on that later. But what do you think, Greg? Do you feel aggrieved on behalf of the Gold Cup? No, it's hard to feel aggrieved on it. Again, we have always disrespected the Gold Cup to a certain degree.

you know for whatever the the legends the u.s legends are saying now like clinton dempsey skipped gold cup tim Howard skipped gold i mean tim Howard took a whole year off of national team soccer uh guys would routinely skip gold cup so that they would be ready to go to their European preseason even if it didn't actually conflict with preseason technically it's like it's just sort of understood guys need a preseason every once in a while. If Christian Pulisic came to this, played in this gold cup, he would not have preseason, he would not have an offseason. That's what I mean, that guys need an off season every once in a while.

He would not have had one last year. He wouldn't have one this year and he wouldn't have one next year because of the World Cup. And it's like, look at the full cycle calendar. Like, a guy needs an offseason. So I don't have any problem with guys prioritizing an offseason over a gold cup. Because we've kind of, again, made it clear historically, and then certainly in the modern era, made it clear that the gold cup just isn't the tournament we value. We value the Nation's League. We put our eggs in the Nations League basket.

And just because those eggs exploded in the basket, I feel like it doesn't mean you've got to now panic and try to sort of regroup your eggs into the Gold Cup. Yeah. I don't know if they exploded so much as Templeton stole all the eggs and rolled them under the rolled them under the pig trough. You forget about them for a while and then you're dealing with something terrible. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of sulfur coming from last summer. No, I don't, I just, I don't care. Like, again, you can't, you can't make, we're doing a Nation's League every year.

And so you can't have a nation's league every year and have Gold Cup every two years. So two per cycle and say all of these are must attend events. Like it's just, it's just too much. From the beginning of our podcast, we've talked about national team call-ups, always being a compromise of sorts. Like it's always, there's always an element to that for our players. No player we've ever had has been like, I will be there no matter what or anything. It just doesn't happen.

So, I mean, I guess I can't say for sure, but for our key players, like, that just has not been the case. So, yeah, it's, it sucks because we are already so low as a fan base. But I still want our players doing what's best for them, specifically what's best for them to give us the best chance in the World Cup that we are hosting in 2026. and I just don't feel that we need to have players. Christian Poolick must be here so that he can get six weeks of coaching from Pachino because that's what we need for the World Cup in 2026. Like I really just don't think we need that. I think Pocci needs to solve some things,

but I don't think it has to happen with all of our core players here at the same time. Yeah, Vincent Waki and I have to talk about this a little bit, and maybe it's just all, you know, fantasy. but there is this possibility that Potch is just doing like a major cultural reset on the team. You know? I'm not saying the culture is Burrhalter's fault or anything like that. Just like it's going to be a totally different group of players. The best players in this camp are going to be different from the best players in most camps.

So I think that's kind of interesting. And I mean, hopefully the barbecue king, Maricio Potcha, has a plan with that. And I think that, you know, I'm excited to see Malik Tillman be a leader of the team. So it doesn't really bother me too much. I've seen Pulisic play a lot in person on TV. I want to see somebody like Tillman and somebody like Luna, you know, ascend. It's no surprise here, but players skipping the Gold Cup to preserve their physical and mental well-being.

being is the right move in your opinion. I think so. And part of preserving their well-being can be being out on the golf course. So when we're seeing guys send posting pictures while they're not at the gold cup being on the golf course, I mean, I feel like it's kind of like people are getting angry about that. And I kind of want to be like, throw up, guys. Like people can have this life they need to have and take a break because they need

this break. They need to recharge because I want to see them back. in 2026 on home soil giving it everything they've got. I mean, imagine if they're already feeling overburdened or, you know, just exhausted physically, mentally, right now. And be like, no, now you're going to play through this, you know,

slog of a Gold Cup. And then you're going to play a full season. And then you're going to come back and you'll just be better for the World Cup. Like everything will be better mentally and physically a year from now. And that doesn't seem like, that doesn't attract for me. And it's, again, just feels like the World Cup is a moment of snapshot in time.

You know, I don't know that, to your point, the six weeks of being together in a military environment this summer is really going to, you know, it's not going to insure anything. And not having that doesn't prevent us from doing anything necessarily. Yeah, so I guess that's one last question for you. How much, you know, the vibes problems, the failure at the Nations League, the debacle at the Copa last summer, how much of a problem is all that headed into the World Cup? I don't think it necessarily carries over at all, quite honestly. you know we've seen examples of that with plenty of teams where Mexico had their worst qualifying campaign ever leading up to 2014

and they did they did just fine in the World Cup and lost on a very marginal correct correct for any even even for any Mexican listeners a very correct but marginal penalty call to the Netherlands who went on to lose a very close final to Spain So I don't have that correct, but my ears are off there. Nothing that was destroyed Spain. I remember, yeah.

So, yeah, so chalk that one off. But no, Mexico had a perfectly respectable World Cup after a disastrous, you know, year and a half, two-year qualifying cycle. What year was no way at a panel? Was it? No, that was correct. That was 2014. I just mean that wasn't the Netherlands going to the World Cup.

Fine. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's what. That was 2010. There we go. Always a bridesman, never a bride of the Dutch. But yeah, so, I mean, you have Morocco as the class.

There's a big example from last year from the last cycle where, you know, fired their coach because of us, because of the U.S. In the summer of 2022, and then five months later, they're in the semi-final of the World Cup. Yeah. The cauldering of Cincinnati. daddy was too much for them. Yeah. That's not to say that those are the perfect recipes and you want to be in total crisis mode.

Like what the goal is to get ourselves into a crisis five months before the world comes so we can bring in a, you know, somebody can swoop in and fix it. We get air in the door finally. But it's also, I also just don't think the things that we've seen are somehow infixable. They're not unfixable elements of the culture. They're not unfixable elements of, performance and gameplay. I think there are definitely fixes

that it doesn't even take an incredibly high level coach to identify and make. And I think we do have a high level coach. So I'm I feel reasonably sure that there will be improvements. And if there aren't, if we come into this gold cup, even with

the roster that's not full full strength, and we are abysmal and shocking, then I will flip totally to I'm just going to entertain the train wreck i'll just be entertained by the train wreck but i'm not i'm not there right now i don't think the train wreck is going to be the entertained yeah yeah i hope i hope it doesn't flip to that but hey i think uh i don't think this was a negative episode at all i think it was pretty nice

and uh positive so thanks gregg yeah anything else i like to be the i enjoy being the wet blanket i think it's necessary for some reason to to not let people have all the joy that they could to have, I want them like, no, let's keep the joy reasonable. But yeah, I think there's plenty of joy in this squad and in this month of a second-tier tournament. You know, before you go, and sorry to anybody who sent in a question that we didn't ask, but we appreciate all of them. Anything tactical you're looking for from Potch and this team, like you're curious,

about or I am yeah tons of stuff yeah we could do a whole we could do a whole other episode between the friendlies and the gold cup proper on it but again this is this is sergenio death time for potchino so I'm super curious how much weight sergino is going to carry early in the buildup I'm super curious how much

of a focal point he'll be in the final third that is that's a huge question mark because we've been we've been playing Joe Scali for the whole Pachitino era. To the point where people are like, maybe Potch just prefers a really boring stay-at-home fullback. I'm adding the boring part myself because it's been really boring watching Joe Scali play

fullback. Not that he's been bad at it. He's been perfectly serviceable, very boring full fullback playing centerback in the buildup. Yep. Now he's got Sergenio Dest. And so it's, I'm so curious to see how he's going to incorporate him and what what responsibilities he's going to give him. because I want Serge to have a ton of the responsibility.

He's not a kid anymore. You know, he is such a grown-up player for PSV in a situation where it does feel like PSV are the grown-ups playing kids, and Serge is such just like a staple and attacking presence. So I want to see him have that same sort of role for the national team. Maybe he'll be the, maybe he'll play left back and be, you know, carry on.

the Jedi inversion, you know? I'd be excited to see that too. I don't, I don't know because, yeah, there, there aren't other left backs we're excited about so we could see, sir, I could see Potch saying our best, uh, approach for the whole team, you know, it's not necessarily the best way to use surge is surge at left back and then, you know, replacement level right back because replacement level right backs tend to be better than our replacement level left backs, if that makes sense.

There's a big drop off at our left back position. Whereas Surge is a pretty good left back historically for the rest. We're comparing that. So I could see him doing that. I hope he plays right back just because I think that would be more entertaining to watch Sergenio in a right back role. Yeah, but we just don't have, I mean, does anybody on this roster play left back outside of him?

Arfston maybe a little bit? Yeah, I think it'd be Arreston. I know I was, that's why I was actually pretty disappointed that Dewan Jones was, uh, dropped because I thought I, in my head, he was going to be the solution. He was going to be the left back stand in, just do a job, whatever, uh, which again, even a guy who just does a job at left back would put himself in the running for a World Cup roster. Maybe it'll be Tim Ream at left back. That, goodness gracious.

I don't feel great about what happens. Now you're the wet blanket. But that'll have people screaming for Wiley and Tolkien. So we'll bring those guys up on the next episode. Yeah. No, I mean, Tolkien, I love watching Tolkien. And Wiley has a lot of promise, too. All right.

Well. But yeah, Serge. Tactically, I want to key on to Junio Death. I want to key on Johnny Cardoso. Again, we have these guys who are kind of like they do these roles for their club, but we might ask them to do more than that. So Cardoso and Malik kind of keeps going back to those guys. Yeah.

Oh, man, I can't wait to see Malik against Trinidad. You know. So the next episode you'll hear from us is going to be on probably Sunday. Vince and I are going to recap the friendly against Turkey. And then Greg, you and I'll be back together middle of next week to recap the Switzerland game. And we may, like I said, we may do something from the tailgate. if we're feeling bold. All right.

Thanks, Greg. Thanks, everybody for listening. We'll see you.