Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #633: Roster reaction with Doug McIntyre

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

Belz and McIntyre, the USMNT reporter for FOX Sports, talk through Pochettino's fascinating press conference yesterday, the fun little dust-up with Jeff Carlisle, Poch's quest to create competition and a more team-focused culture, where Musah likely stands, and a little bit of catch-up on the midweek Champions League action. Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff podcast when we talk about U.S. soccer. Hey, everybody, it's a beautiful morning. Our U20s beat France 3-0 at the U-20 World Cup in Chile yesterday. Potch announced a roster that's a pretty good approximation of the top available American talent at soccer. And then he mixed it up with reporters in the press conference yesterday. Fox has a World Cup ad out that is fun as hell. And Fox's own Doug McIntyre is here with me to talk through the roster and the midweek Champions League action that preceded it. Doug, welcome back. Always good to have you.

Good to be here, Adam. Thanks for having me. Have you seen the ad, by the way? Were you involved in that? Probably not. No, I wasn't and I haven't seen it. So thanks for putting me on blast immediately. Sorry, bosses. I'll take a look at the ad at as soon as I can, as we were talking about just before we got on here. Yeah, I was down in New York for Adidas's World Cup ball launch event with some of the editors. So I know we'll talk about Champions League. I watched as much as I could. I did. did catch up after. But I'm still catching up on things, including this ad that I've already heard about,

but still not seen. So I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff, like historical footage. And I think it's Beethoven music. Anyway, let's start. I'll read the roster real quick, just for those who are not on Twitter all day. The goalkeepers are Chris Brady, Matt Freeze, Patrick Schulte, and Matt Turner. So Matt Turner returns after.

not being there for the last camp. The defenders are Max Arfston, Cameron Carter Vickers, Alex Freeman, Mark McKenzie, Tim Ream, Chris Richards, Anthony Jedi Robinson, and Miles Robinson. We'll talk about the omissions in a second.

And then midfielders are Brendan Aronson making his return. Diego Luna, Weston McKinney, makes his return, Aidan Morris makes his return, Tanner Testman makes a return, Christian Roll Don's back after really impressing Potch. in the last camp, and James Sands is going to make his first, maybe get his first cap since

2023, and then Malik Tillman will be back after, I think, solidifying his relationship with Potch over the summer. Big Pat Ajumang, kind of in that same boat, kind of a Potch favorite. He's coming back after getting healthy at Darby County, Fuller and Balligan, Christian Pulisic, of course, Tim Wea, of course, Haji Wright returns, and Ali Zendejas, returns after, I think, a good camp in September. So that's the roster. Any high-level thoughts before we talk about, I guess, the omissions and the people having babies?

Yes. The thing that stands out to me is that Pachitino's rewarding players for performing with their clubs. He referenced James Sands. I mean, last month, he said that, oh, there won't be any more new faces. This is our final opportunity to look at guys that we haven't seen. and what does he do? He brings in a guy he hasn't in his first year as coach. And it's James Sands.

And he brought up Sands and he said, well, why is he here? You could say, how come you're bringing in a guy less than a year in before the World Cup that you haven't seen yet? And he said, well, he's playing every week. And he's playing well at a high level. And he got rewarded. Same with Brennan Aronson, who was on the Gold Cup squad this summer. He barely played, you know, gave up his whole summer, barely played. goes back to Leeds United. I think there was a lot of questions from a lot of people,

whether Brennan Aronson would be a starter in the Premier League this year with Leeds as he was at the championship level last year. And he's carved out a starting spot. And that's, you know, you're a starter in the Premier League. You're coming back in. So you've seen, you've seen guys get rewarded. And there's a number of other guys like that. In fact, just about everyone on the roster, they're there. You know, we talked about, asked about Tanner Testman and Nathan Morris and Weston McKinney. All those guys are playing. All those guys are playing well.

That's why they're here. So, you know, that's what you want. And that's what we've been, you know, I know we'll talk about the emissions in a second. But you want guys to be playing well and to have to play well to get called in. And I think that's what we're seeing. Yeah. Yeah, he said, what do you say about Testament? You asked about Testament and Morris.

I did, yeah. And he said, they're playing in a regular way. They're playing in a regular word. They're playing every week. In the case of Tesman, he's got European games as well. So it's more than once a week in his case. We know how many games they play in the championship in England. So Aidan Morris is playing all.

Yeah, every season, every team. Yeah. And then it was interesting to hear Pachitino talk about the need for guys at the World Cup that can play three games in a week. So he's calling in guys that are playing and that are fit. And I think we can expect to see that from here until June. Yeah, it doesn't bode well for our baby prince, Gio Raina. But we'll get to that. We'll get to that, yeah.

So the sporting omissions, I would call them, are Musa, Eunice Musa, Joe Scali and Josh Sargent. And, I mean, Musa had a pretty good week. I think overall got a game-winning assist for Atalanta in terms. in Champions League. He didn't have a great game overall, but he did get the assist. He almost had a shocker that gave up their, that would have put them behind. Kind of got bailed out by a bad finish. But should we listen to the, I have one clip in here that I want to listen to from the press

conference was Jeff Carlisle's question and answer because I think it's, and I cut it down a little bit, but this is when things started to get. I think a little spicy in the press bars, which I love. I love it. So do I. Let's listen to the clip and then talk about it a little bit. I'm also curious why Eunice Musa and Jedos Gali were not called into this camp. Next time you provide your list and your roster and after we can debate or everyone he can provide because I think,

I'm not going to talk because we never gave explanation to the Brady that are not with us. when you are asking me about a player that are not in the squad or in the roster is because I think in your mind you believe that they have right to be here I think we need to respect the player of the 26 if not we are going to start to ask to the social media why is not one player

another and decide about that I don't know maybe you can ask me why Messi is not in the roster no this type of player Maradona, Pelle I don't know But when you are talking about, you know, different names, I think you need to respect the players that are here. Go ahead. What's your take on up? First of all, I think Jeff caught a bit of astray there.

You know, Jeff's a great professional, a dear friend and colleague. We worked together for many, many years at ESPN. And it was a question that was going to get asked no matter what. So, you know, he took the brunt of it. It's a fair question. You know, I like talking to people and interviewing people that have personality and don't give can answers. And Potch in the last month or so, he's really led his personality show. And it was a remarkable press, another in a string of incredibly insightful press conferences.

Yeah. Going back to, I think, after the South Korea loss and then ahead of the Japan and after the Japan, end game and now this press conference. They're all really, really interesting. And I think we learn more about how Pachitino works and about the way he sees things in the last month and in those last three or four press conferences than we have in the previous 11 months under him. I feel like I've learned more about how he goes about his business, how he sees things. And he gave, you know, a bunch of great explanations on a bunch of other stuff. I mean, the question that really stuck out to me, and I know you kind of highlighted on social media was Henry Bushnell's question. And it's sometimes the

best question you can possibly ask as a reporter and it's why right why and it the question was because potchitino kept repeating and he did to my question and then a few others that he doesn't give explanations we just heard him say we don't give explanations to the players we never give them explanations why they came in why they didn't right and you know i had the same question henry does well why not why why don't you do that and his answer to that was was was great um and very insightful and basically said, you know, I mean, we can get into what he said on that. But, you know, he made it very clear that the player's job is to perform and to keep quiet and to, you know, not complain. I thought that the most interesting part of that press conference to me was when he talked about how he expects players to behave.

Yeah. And not even in, you know, and I think he said that in response to my question about Weston McKinney and Tanner Testament and Aiden Morris coming back in. but when he said later he said it's amazing something like it's amazing to see the difference when players know they're playing and when they know they're not and how you're not supposed to see a difference right inside it's killing you as a player when you're not playing right I mean that's what it comes down to you you like a coach who plays you and you don't like a coach that doesn't play you any sport any level it's as simple as that and he said that you know you can be pissed inside basically yeah

Paraphrasing. It's okay to feel the pain. A hundred percent. You might think the coach is wrong. You might think the coach is wrong, but you don't show it. And you're in that team, and you're in that, and you shouldn't be able to tell a difference. And that's what it takes to do well at World Cups. You know, you look at Argentina's team in the last World Cup.

Argentina is obviously Argentineanian. Every player was willing to do anything to win that World Cup. And that's why they want it. You have Littoro Martinez on the bench. right could be pissed right Scoloni Argentina's coach talked about it after the Cop America win last year right

because Martinez he came off the bench in that game and scored the winning goal in the Copa America final right and he was asking he said you know I know he's pissed he's not playing I know he's pissed but you'd never know it and that's what it's and that's what Pach wants and that's what we should all

like that's a good thing and I'm so I'm glad he said it and he gave us that insight because I feel like I have a much better understanding now of how he operates. And perhaps a better understanding of why he was so frustrated with the way things went in March. Is that your read on it? That probably players weren't following that rule. They were letting it show. It's even deeper than that, right?

Because we talked about, so I wrote a story a few weeks ago about, you know, how Potch's first year is gone and how what kind of led. Yeah. It's what led to him getting hired, right? So basically, what you had was you had a bunch of guys that came up together. And they're very secure in their positions. I mean, going into the last World Cup, I think for the year before that tournament, we knew probably eight, who eight or nine of the starters were going to be.

I feel like we're probably in the same position now. If you say, what's the best lineup? I mean, we kept asking Greg Baraltor, what, what's, do you know your best lineup? And he was like, yeah, I think I do. And right now, we could probably name eight starters that we'll see next summer, right? So let's start, let's start in the back, right? I don't know about goalkeeper. So let's put that to the side.

I still think Turner's there. in the end, but I'm not sure. But if Sergenio Dest is healthy, he will be on the right side. If Jedi's healthy, he will be on the left. We know Chris Richards will be in the middle, right? Think Rima will be next to him, but given his age and, you know... It's a question mark. We'll say it's a question mark, not as sure, but Chris Richards will be there.

I think when everyone's at their best, I still think the MMA midfield is probably, and we'll get to Moose a bit later, but, you know, I'd probably have those three guys in there. and then you've got Christian Polisic and Tim Wea, right, that are locked in starters. So there's only, you know, what is that, eight out of its 11 spots? Yeah, and then flow would be a locked in starter for me. I think we'll see what Pepe does when he gets back. I mean, the form Pepepe was in last year and the goals he scored for the national team. I still think Pepe is the best finisher in the pool.

He's a pure goal scorer. His strike rate shows that every time that guy plays. It doesn't matter how much time he scores goals. It's true. Yeah. So, like, yeah, I mean, you could, you're right. You could add balligan up there, right? So, like, so what happened was, I think Pachitino needed to create competition that basically didn't exist.

He almost had to artificially create it. We saw him do it in the case of Matt Freeze, right? There was no one challenging Matt Turner, a guy who played four games last year in Europe. But there was no one that was knocking his door down, right? Playing every week, you could argue Jonathan Klinsman is the guy that's playing in Europe, weekend and a weekout. It's at the second level. There are a bunch of keepers in MLS, right?

None of them have any experience. Matt's got World Cup experience. So what do do? I have to give another keeper some real top level experience, such as it was, the Gold Cup. And now you suddenly have a goalkeeper competition. Yeah. Right? where one did not exist before.

And it could have been Zach Stephan this summer if he wasn't hurt. It ended up being freeze. He took the opportunity and he ran with it. And that's what they want. And he's a high character guy. Right. He's going to be a guy that's a good guy and he's going to accept his role no matter what. He impressed the coaches in camps.

You know, I know that Pocetino relies heavily on Tony Jimenez's his goalkeeper coach. And he saw something in Freeze and they gave him the opportunity. And now you've competition. And I think that's what he's trying to do in other places on the wrong. roster to make guys have to earn or keep their spot. And he talked about that yesterday in the press conference too. So that to me is what he's trying to create competition within the team and let these guys know that I don't care what your CV says your resume. I don't care what you did four years ago. I don't care that you're a World Cup veteran. I don't care that you're starting

every week in a top five league. You have to be playing well every week. And then when you come in the national team you have to play well and perform and you have to be you have to put a team a team a team first guy like the team is the star the team is that is what matters especially a national team going into a world cup on home soil everybody has to put their check their ego at the door and give everything they have for this this project to be a success it's the only way it'll work because there's not enough talent to just call in the best players roll the ball out and think that you're going to, it's just going to work like that. It doesn't work like that. We've seen it. We've seen amazing teams. Italy didn't qualify for the last two World Cups.

Is it because they're not a good team? They don't have good players. You know, France, right? The famous example, France in 2002, defending World Cup champions, they don't score a goal and they go three and out. They had the best roster in the world, right? France in the last World Cup final.

I was at that game. France had a man for men. man, France is a better squad than Argentina in that World Cup final. There's no question about it, right? Argentina won because they had a stronger mentality. They were a better team in short. And that's what that's what Pocetino is trying to create here. And you can argue how he's going about doing it.

And I understand that when you look at, you know, you can, you can say, you know, why is Eunice Muson out here and Christian Rollands here, right? Eunice Moose is assisting in the Champions League. He's playing in the top five league. He's, we know his pedigree. We saw what he did at the last World Cup as a 19-year-old when he shut down Jude Bellingham against England as a 19-year-old. Right?

So we know what his level is, but he wasn't there for the Gold Cup. And, you know, I think that there's, Potch is going to make him earn his way back in. Like, no, no, no, you're going to come in when you're, at the absolute best and then take the pilgrimage in 2027 bro you know yeah i mean and and again i think moose will be back i think he's a great player i think he's a special special player we forget how young he is um i don't think he's developed as much as we we would have wanted but he still has time and he's he's a phenomenal player and he'll be back and i think i you know i think he'll be in the starting lineup in the opening game at SoFi Stadium on June 12th.

Interesting. But he'll have to earn it. You know, I have two thoughts on the sort of, two other thoughts on the clip. A lot of people on social media, which I don't know how representative that is of, you know, the average person out there, but are critical of Podge for, you know, for being tetchy with Carlisle there. And I guess my thought is like, I want him to be tetchy. if he even has a slight inclination to.

And I think Carlisle, it's a victory for him. You know, I guess he catches astray. But, like, he does his job there. He gets poch to say something interesting. Yeah, and Jeff is fine. I mean, Jeff's a pro. Like, that wouldn't have bothered him at all. Like, so for all the people that are out there defending him, you know,

Hercules Gomez, who I love, right, defending his guy, right, is his teammate. That's what you're supposed to do. But Jeff's just fine. And you're right. That's a, it was a great question, a great answer. And that shows, you know, Jeff was right for asking it. He got a great answer. Yeah, win-win.

And I'm curious what your thoughts are on him saying, you know, he doesn't come right out and say it, but he does kind of say, look, if you're asking me about Palo or Maradona, why they're not in camp, sure. But he says, essentially he says, these are just guys. These are just names. These are just different names. and I wonder, is that like, is that like disrespectful to Musa and Scali?

It's a tricky. Yeah, go ahead. It's a tricky thing, right? Even when you talked about, like, do I give explanations to players? You can understand why, like, you can understand why. Like, Potch is not going to tell you really why he's not calling in Musa and Scali because that's not something you're going to do public. Like, he has reasons, but he's not going to tell us what they are.

And I'm okay with that. actually. Like, we don't need to know everything that goes on in a team. I would love to. I would love to. But in a team, there are stuff they keep, you know, in-house. You don't air dirty laundry in public. And that's how it should be.

So coaches should not publicly throw players under the bus. That's a bad move as a coach. You don't want to do that, right? Even if behind closed doors, you're screaming at this guy and telling them, you know, calling him everything and tell them, you better get your act together. There's no point doing that publicly. And the only time coaches do it is if the message isn't getting through privately. It's like I got to embarrass this guy. Right.

So I don't think there's any. I believe him when he says, I don't think it's anything personal. You know, but, but yeah, there's. But he went, he went further to say he doesn't give them explanations. Like he doesn't explain it to them. No. Why they're not called up. And I, and that's, I mean, you mentioned that already.

But that was pretty interesting because. Very. A long, long answer on that, to Bushnells, which is too much to clip and try to play here. But he said a few things. Like, basically, players don't believe. Players want evidence when they are upset that they don't get called in. Yeah. But now what are you doing?

Now you're telling them why they're not good. Right. Right. So that's, again, it's counterproductive. Right. And you heard what he said. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Well, if you tell them, if you give them a bunch of praise to justify why you did call them up, then they will use that the next time you don't call them up, you know? Correct. So it seems like there's all these kind of practical considerations. And then he said, and there was a nuance there. And then he said, right now, if you say, if you come to me and say, there's a different question, why didn't I get called up? Oh, well, because there's a, like, what do I have to do?

It's a different question, right? That's what he said, right? Something along those lines. In so many words, yeah. In so many words, right? Like, what, you know, what do you want to see from me, right? What do you need for me, basically? Like, and that's a different question.

And I found that really interesting. And I actually, I put my hand up again because I wanted to follow up with that. It's like, I think Pocci, he mentioned that no one called him when they didn't make the goal cup. And I wanted to ask, do you want players to call up and say like, like, you know, I'm desperate to be on this team. Like, I'll do anything. You tell me what I need to do and I'll do. And if it's not good enough and I don't make it. But like, does he want, is that what he wants from his?

It sounds like he does want that. Yes. Yeah. And he was disappointed. that he didn't get it. A little bit. A little bit. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's like, don't complain in the media. Don't complain. You know, I know Scali said he was disappointed in an interview after he wasn't called in last camp, which is fine. I mean, you want players to be upset that they're not there. And he and touched that at this week. He said, I want the guys that don't call them to be desperate to come back in. Right?

Yeah. But you don't complain and say, I'm doing enough. I should be called in based on what I'm doing. clearly you're not doing something. Right. Whatever it is. Clearly you're not doing something. Call the coach and ask what it is you need for me.

What do I have to do to make that team? And what did he say? He said, now that's a different conversation. And if a player comes to me and says that, we can sit down and have a conversation for half an hour, an hour. We can go through clips. Right. Very, very interesting.

Right. So that's how he looks at it. And it's a small distinction. but it's an important one. So again, I just, I thought it was, I thought it was, that was fascinating. I did too. Yeah, like he's not going to volunteer. He's not going to volunteer an explanation.

But if you call him and ask him to what do you need for me, he will, he will tell you. He also said, and I thought this was interesting right at the beginning of that answer, deep down players know why they're, why they're called up or why they're not called up. That is true. And so, and so he says, I don't, I don't want to use the word I used back in Columbus. I don't want to use the word. I don't want to use because he said bull bullshit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, but he said that's all, that's what that is, is when you, you know, players, when you give players an explanation, it's all, it's not positive. It's bullshit, you know, so it moves fascinating. And I think, what's that going to do, right? If Scali makes the world,

if Joe Scali makes the World Cup team, right? It's going to be because he just plays out of his mind. for the rest of the season, and he plays his way back into the team. And the same with Musa. Those guys have an opportunity. They've got time to get back in. And I'm betting on them. They're both in great spots to do that, too.

Well, I mean, I think Scali's, you know, he's in a little bit of a tough situation with Gladbach this year. They have, they've been terrible. They might get relegated. That's not going to help him. But, like, there's a lot of season left. And I don't think Scali's been bad. Like, I've watched him play.

I don't think he's been bad. I think he's a good player. I think he's matured quite a bit, actually. Like, you know, as far as I could tell, I don't, and the other point I want to make your Adam is like, I don't, I don't know if you ever, like, coached, you know, coach soccer or whatever, coached anything. Oh, yeah, I do. But I, right, so I coached hockey for years.

And what I, what I learned is like, if you have, you can have a parent. So I coach little, you know, all different ages, but, but let's say a little, under 10 team, right? U-10s. You can have a parent. it comes to every single practice, watches every single thing the coaches do, right? They watch, they watch through the glass. They're talking to, they talk to us. We talk to them, you know, their kids are telling them, how his practice.

Oh, you know, we did this, that, and it, right? But they don't really know what's going on on the inside. There's a separate. So as much as we, like we, you know, I watch every game twice. I, I, we listen at press conferences. I, you know, I read everything I can. I try to be as educated as I can. And I, you know, I'm privy to information that, you know, the general public sometimes isn't because, you know, that's what I do.

I report. Right. I try to find out stuff. And if I can report it, then I, then I do. You get the link to the Zoom call to have a conversation with POT. Sure. I get to ask questions, you know, which a lot of people don't have the privilege of doing. Like, if I'm curious about something, I can, I can ask, just like Jeff was curious.

And he asked and he got an answer. but we don't have the full picture, right? It's important to remember that. We don't have the full picture. We don't see training, and we don't know what happens, you know, as my colleague Alex allows, likes to say, the other 22 and a half hours of a day, whether it's a game or a training session, right? You train for 90 minutes.

What's happening the rest of the time? And I can tell you that Potanist staff and every coaching staff, they're watching everything all the time. How players interact with each other. How they are in the millroom, how they are on the bus, how they, you know, what their body language is. You name it. You go down, you know, how they're professional they are, how they take care of themselves. Like, everything gets scrutinized at this level. And we don't have the full picture. We just don't. You know, we don't know what's going on in the hotel. We don't know the private conversations that are happening. We don't know. Posh talks about behavior. What does that mean? I don't know. But that's what he's taught, you know. Does that mean guys have misbehaved in the past? I mean, maybe. It sure sounds like it. Yeah. In every team, you know, there's things that happen over the, like you're dealing with, you know, young, young men with or women in case of women's team with egos and money. And, and, you know, there's these people didn't get to where they are in life by, you know, not being extremely confident.

And yeah, there's all sorts of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that fans don't know about. and media doesn't know about. And so it's hard to make an informed assessment all the time. So we just go by what we see in games. And that's an important factor. I mean, some would say it's the most important thing, right? But there are other considerations, you know? The 26th player on a World Cup squad probably isn't getting on the field.

So what do you bring into the team? Yeah. Right? If it's between a guy that you know is going to be an incredible teammate and keep everyone loose and you know and can still do a job if he if needed right or a guy who might be slightly better but doesn't bring those attributes i know which guy i'm bringing 100% yeah yeah and i mean yeah to your point there are all sorts of little matters of respect and decorum in like not only on the field that we can't see or in the on the bench but in the locker room

at the hotel that are really really important and you know stuff that is stuff can be really subtle and still be pretty egregious on those fronts. Like I even see it in like you 10 girls soccer. Like the girl who doesn't ask if the other girl is okay after she like steps on her ankle or like, you know, stuff like that. So I mean, yeah, I can totally see. I can totally acknowledge that there are, there is a whole universe of stuff that we're not seeing.

Yeah. That we don't understand. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, yeah. Um, so I think that's probably. Probably it from the press conference. I mean, those were the three most interesting things.

The, the, um, you got to behave the same way as you, whether you're playing or whether you're not, whether you know you're playing, whether you're not. The whole thing about, um, not explaining, not explaining call-ups or, or, uh, non-callups. And then, and then the answer to Jeff Carlisle's question about Muson Scali. So, yeah, uh, some run of the mill stuff, I guess, from the press conference, you know, he said, see, see, CP is the most important player for the national team. He needs to keep going. It's a good signal from West that he went 90 against Villarreal. We already mentioned Tanner and Aden.

He did say sometimes people talk too much because they don't know how we work. It does seem like he's kind of aware of the Twitter sphere, the X sphere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They need to behave and follow the rules after your question, which was about West, Tannen, Aiden. Yeah.

There was an interesting answer to Ryan Tolmich's question, I think, on Balagan, where, you know, he talked about how, you know, I think he talked about his intensity when he came in last time. And so it's clear that he impressed. And that's a guy that wasn't on the roster originally at the beginning of last camp. Yeah. And that came in and, you know, and again, like, to your point, I think he's, I don't think there's any question.

He's the starter for these, these games coming up. Yeah. So I thought that was interesting too. Oh, also shout out Charlie Boehm for, for joining the term, Pachismo. Yeah. Pochismo. Yeah. Which Podge loved.

Like, he like got his pen out, made a great show if he said, I like that, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a great question. And that was a great answer. That was a great answer as well. About rolled on, about rolled on. Yes, yes. And he used Roll-Don as an, you know, basically as an example.

Like, that's a guy that came in and the way he behaved, right? He said that's the way he behaved. And it was interesting. I don't know that we talked about this. But what, so I was, I was with the team in New Jersey last month, spent, you know, I was out at training every day. And so I think Roldan was called up in the middle of the week or early in the week. It was after camp had already started.

So he was only there, like maybe the Thursday, Friday, before the Saturday game. And it was what struck me was how excited the staff was to see him in camp again. Right. He's a guy the staff loves. Everyone loves Christian Rodan. Yeah. And that's that, you know, so that was interesting to me.

And I, you know, if I noticed that in just on the side of the training pitch and overhearing conversations, like you can be sure, Putsch Tino knows that. But he said, you know, we'll see how he behaves in this camp. And he's got to continue to perform. Yeah. And he's got to, and he is having a, he's having a, probably the best season of his career this year with Seattle. I thought he was very good in the club World Cup. I thought he was their best player against some very, very, very good opposition.

I mean, Botafogo, Lettico Madrid, Paris-Sanger, man. It's a pretty good teams, man. So, you know, and this is a guy who's been, he's had, he's done that role before. He's gone to a World Cup. You know, I think he said he was the 26th. man last last time i don't know if he actually was but didn't get on the field but he's a he's proven he's a proven you know guy in a lot of ways um for the role that i think he's vying for yeah yeah i mean to that point i mean he is i haven't i've interacted with i don't know a lot not as many players as

you have but i've interacted with a few and by far he is like the he's the most gentleman gentleman of them all. He stands out. He stands out. So I mean, I've interviewed hundreds, if not thousands. Well, I don't know about thousands, but I don't know how many players I've talked to. Maybe more than a thousand players over the course of my career. And he stands out. And when someone stands out good or bad, you know, that's there's a reason, you know, it's because there's something different about them. Yeah. He treats people with dignity. You know, I've said that on the podcast. He does. He does. He's able to connect. with people in a very genuine way. And again, when you're a group of 50-some-odd people, when you include players and staff and you're sequestered in tight quarters for a long period of time with a lot of pressure,

you better have the right people in that room because, you know, it's funny, I went back and read a story I wrote about third goalkeepers and the role third goalkeepers play. And this was ahead of the 2022 World Cup. Then I went back and I talked to everyone from, you know, Tony Miola, who was the third keeper in 2002 after having started two previous World Cups for the U.S. You know, Marcus Hanneman was a backup at a couple World Cups with the third keeper, you know, Nick Romando, and they all talked about how, you know, how important it is to, like, I think Hanuman said something like, all it takes is one guy. one guy that's

and it can screw up everything one guy with a bad attitude can poison a team quickly so like it really really really really matters every individual matters and you have to get it right

and you know very timely sort of relevant segue here if you want to see a team that is not a bunch of superstars that just put a hurtin on the France U-20s watch the

watched some of that U-20 game last night. That's a bunch of no-name guys. Like most of us hadn't heard of them before like a couple months ago. They don't even play that much in MLS. And they were, that was a comprehensive dismantling of, now, granted, maybe it was like the C or D or maybe even E-team for France at the U-20 level. But France has hundreds, if not thousands of elite soccer players coming up. So they're all good.

and you never know who's going to be like the stars from that age group. Yeah. We were the better team from start to finish and then just sort of poured it on at the end. Yeah. And I like the mentality. The mentality stood out. It seems like Mitrovich has them really playing for each other and bought in. And man, that works in a tournament.

Yeah, there was a lot of grit on display. And a lot of it looked like a, you know, traditional, for lack of a better word, U.S. team. Yeah. But with some skill, too, and you're right, I mean, at the end, I mean, at the end, they just pulled away. And it was fun to watch. Great to see. You know, it seems like we're always hanging on for dear life in the last 20 minutes.

Yep. All right. So I should just real quick say, Xavier Gozo scored the game winner in the 85th minute, and then Brooklyn Raines scored another to make it two zero. And then Zumbrano, whose first name is. Marcos Zambrano. Yeah. So two R.S.L guys in Gozo and Zabrano and a Houston Dynamo product in Brooklyn Raines.

Yeah. Rains kind of created the second goal by mugging a guy at midfield and then did a give and go with Gozo. So Gozo got the goal and the assist. Frankie Westfield, really impressive. I think he was playing right back, but he was getting all over the place. and he's played the ball in for Luke Brennan, Atlanta United product to clip up like a lovely ball across for Gozo on the game winner.

Yeah. And yeah, I think Westfield, Westfield's impressive. I mean, everybody looked good on that team, honestly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so let's do a little Champions League, just a little bit of Champions League action, and then we'll get out of here.

Wes at Villarreal, this is maybe the big news of the week, because he started and went 90. They gave up a late goal, but, and I think, I don't know, what was your, do you have any opinions on how he played? I mean, he put a couple of shots on target with his head in the first half. I thought he was good. Yeah. I thought he was good.

Weston McKenney impresses me almost every time I watch him play for Juventus, and usually for the national team. He's a player, when you see him in person, I think he's even more impressive when he's at his best. I mean, when he's at, when Weston McKinney's at his breast, his best. He's a world-class midfielder. I mean, he really, he really is. I think he's underrated as a player, Weston McKenney. I think he's a fabulous player. It's, you know, and I think he just needs to be reined in a little bit and point in the right direction. And, and I think that he's,

you know, he's once again established himself as an important player. I mean, that was a, it was still a good point for Uve. They're on the road. You know, sucks to give up a late goal, but, but, but, Yeah, I agree. It's with Pachitino and that that's a positive sign that Weston's playing 90 minutes in a Champions League, a way Champions League game and playing well. And that he's fit enough to go 90 minutes. I mean, I think that matters too. He looks trim, actually.

I don't know if it's the shaved face, but. I thought the same thing. I thought the same thing. He was a little bit harder to pick him out on the field because he's like. You know, it's funny. I went back. So when I, you know, when I reported that he. had showed up to Cope America out of shape.

You know, I'd had that, got that from multiple sources. And at one point, I actually went back and I watched the England-U.S. game in 2022. And then I watched the Uruguay game that knocked the U.S. out of the Cop America in 2024. And you could see, you know, that Wes looked a little different. And I thought yesterday, yeah, I thought, wow, Wes looks good. Yeah. You know, he looks good. And if, hey, maybe, you know, maybe that omission last month worked.

Yeah, maybe. And if that's the case, then we'll all look back. And if he has a Monster World Cup next summer, which I think he's absolutely capable of. And again, if you go back and watch that England U.S. game, we talked about Musa and what the job he did on Bellingham in that game, watch Westland McKinney in that game. That's one of the best World Cup performances from a U.S. midfielder, if not the best one, I have ever seen. scene. He was phenomenal in that game. And yeah, I'm a huge fan of Weston McKenney as a player. I think he's, I think he's really, really important. And he needs to be at his best for the U.S. to have a good run

next summer. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think he loves the bright lights too. So like, so he needed, he needed a fire lit under him right now. But when it comes to next summer, he's going to be, he's going to give it everything he's got. I think so, too. I mean, if you, I don't know if people remember this. Weston basically shut himself down for Juventus before the World Cup, the last World Cup. Like, he basically said, like, I'm not playing because I need to play in the World Cup. He did.

Because he showed, he got, he had gotten hurt. And, you know, there was a couple games the Juvenis had. And he, you know, effectively pulled himself out from what I understand. And so he knew he'd be fit. So, yeah. And I've said this to people, too. I mean, we talked a lot about the Nations League, which seems to be an inflection point this year. The loss is the losses to Panama and Canada.

And Pottches referenced it as a wake-up call on a number of occasions. You know, a lot of people wanted to draw parallels between that opening game. It's at SOFI, you know, just over a year before the World Cup. And it's like, you know, people say, oh, you know, the world, no one's going to come and watch the U.S. play in the World Cup because no one came to a game against. Panama in a tournament that didn't exist five years ago that kicked off at 4 p.m. on a Thursday afternoon. And it's like for players, there's a huge difference, right?

That you're flying, right, in the middle of your European season, you're flying from Europe to Los Angeles to play in the Cocky Calfe Nations League. That is not the same thing as playing in a World Cup on home soil. I'm sorry. Like these guys, like they're human beings and the motivation and, And as much as you're supposed to be motivated every time you're wearing the crest, you're a professional, right? Like, human nature is what it is. It's not the same thing, right?

There's a reason why world records get set in Olympics a lot of times, right? Yeah. When the stakes are the highest, when the lights are the brightest, when everyone's watching, that's what, that's where the cream usually rises to the top. I go back to that World Cup final You know What just the level of that game Was just astounding You know

The equalizer in Bopi scores Like the The ball term Messy turns a ball over right Thinks it's a foul midfield Like how ruthlessly and quickly That turnover was punished That's the highest level right

Yeah Within seconds that ball's in the net And that you know And it's just right like does imbapes score that i know he scores goals like that all the time but like the stakes mattered in that moment right they mattered in that moment so i think i i believe that weston and every single player on that team is going to be at their absolute best come the world cup next summer because they have to be and if they're not shame on them they will be they will be i think so too

i think so too i think of the you mentioned the world cup final i think of that coppa final a lot between Columbia and Argentina. Yeah. What a dog fight that way. It was, that was, I agree with you.

I couldn't agree more. The physicality in that game, the, the way Argentine, like, it's, I like watching Argentina play because I,

I like their mentality. Their mentality, you know, as a, as, they play like, like it's hockey. They,

they, they never miss an opportunity to get a bump in, to get a, you know, They play mad, like... The whole time. They're willing to die for that crest.

And it's just, you know, and it's all, and it's cultural. It's because it means so much. The sport means so much in, you know, there. And it's just, I understand why Pachatino wants to bring some of that to the U.S. And, and, you know, culturally, it's not ever going to be the same, I don't think. But, you know, those old U.S. teams that had that underdog, like, they had some of that. They had some of that. You got to have a chip on your shoulder if you don't have the talent.

And sometimes even if you do. I mean, definitely if you do. I mean, the Argentina is a perfect example. They have the most talent, you know. Well, that's, I would argue they don't because like look again. Right. Not the most broadly, but they have the most, like, they have Maradona. They have a lot of time.

Right. Like, it's still Argentina, right? They have the gods of the sport. They do. But look at the last World Cup team. Like where was, you know, where was McAllister playing? He was playing at Brighton. Montiel, the guy that scores the winning penalty, was a sub at Nottingham Forest.

Right. Right. Like, you know what I mean? You weren't talking about, you know, guys that were on Barcelona. I mean, some of them were. But, you know, it was the mentality that was set them apart. Again, man for man. France was better, Brazil was better,

Argentina was the best team, and that's why they won. All right. Let's talk about Eunice and Malik real quick before we go. Yeah. Well, we don't need to talk that much about Eunice. I mentioned it earlier. He did have that horrible back pass. Yeah.

He left it short to the goalkeeper right after Atalanta had equalized. And luckily there was no goal scored. But he also had a chance kind of. Ain't on goal where he tried to round the keeper. He did, yep. And he looks kind of like his normal self in the final third, which is like not that effective. So I think if you're a Eunice critic, you say, you know, still a little loose at the back, still not that dangerous in the final third.

But I guess, I mean, what's your 15 second rejoinder to that? Yeah, the fact that he played, you know, he's playing in the Champions League. So, you know, that's a good thing. But again, he didn't start the game. He hasn't started every game in Syria. He's got a, he's got work to do. I agree. He's got, he's got work to do.

And Tillman, I enjoyed, you know, sent me the rundown earlier. I agree. And that's been the, you know, so. You agree with what? We agree. I should probably, I should probably talk. So, yeah, he looked at the end when they, when they took him off. And, you know, I think that that's the one thing we want to see more from, from, from, from

Tillman is a bit more intensity. That's always been the knock on him. Sleep in Malik? Yeah. So, you know, great play, like, silky skills and very talented guy. But, you know, I still think that, that, you know, piece is missing. And I wonder if it's, is it a personality thing? Because he's the most laid back guy, you know, can imagine.

I think Seb Berlter, you know, said it really well in the summer. He said, you know, it was something about, you know, the pressure heading into the file or something, and he referenced, told me, he said, I don't think that guy's, you know, ever been under pressure day in his life kind of thing or something like that. He's never, never been stressed a day in his life. He's very laid back kind of guy, but, you know, but a good player. And, but yeah, I mean, I would like to see him have a bit more intensity and be playing 90 minutes every week. We know that, you know, he had a bit of a setback in preseason that I think he's still trying to catch up with. So I don't know that he's, you know, he's out

is peak match fitness just yet. But I'm curious to see, yeah. His betting in period may be a little longer than your average guy, it seems like. You know? Yeah. Like he may not, he might just take him a little while to ramp up. But he played so hard for the U.S. at the Gold Cup. Like, I mean, especially think of his work against the ball.

So I wonder, I guess I have some faith that Pachismo will sort of take its effect with him. He made an impression on the staff this summer. I don't think there's any question about that. So it's just, I mean, he's on the World Cup. Not that if he doesn't play and he doesn't play well, he'll have a lot of, you know, like Pottches made it clear. No one's entitled to a spot. But for me, he's a guy that he's pretty well established at this point. And it's just a matter of, is he going to start or isn't he?

And I still, in my last projected roster or lineup, I have him starting. but we talked about, you know, the guys I'm, that we're all pretty sure we're going to be. I mean, we know Christian Policic and Tim Wea and Chris Richards and Sergenio Dest and Jedi Robinson and Tyler Adams. And I think Weston McKinney and I think Eunice Moos are going on the field. I'm not as sure about Tillman. Yeah. You know, but he's in the race for sure. Yeah, he needs to play better for Levitzen, I think.

he he looked almost like kind of pouty in this game. Yeah, right, yeah. I mean, I'm not saying he was pouty. I'm just saying that's how he looked. He didn't celebrate the go-ahead goal with his teammates at all. He was like barely running by the time he came off. Yeah. He was behind the play when Saibari scored the equalizer when he could.

I mean, I'm not sure he could have done anything. I'd like to think it's fitness. Like you said, gas. Like I don't know that, you know. I wouldn't go as far as to say, you know, pouty or he didn't, he didn't, to me, Adam, look like he was pouting on the field. Okay. To me, I think, I just, you know, I look at it as he was tired and he's, his, again, his personality is,

like, he's not a guy that shows a lot of emotion at all. We didn't see that in the Gold Cup either, right? Like, you know, he wasn't, he's pretty, when he scores, he doesn't really, he never really celebrates that hard. Like, he's not sliding on his knees or. or screaming into the television camera or smacking the flag. He's not doing any of that stuff.

So, yeah, he's a cool cat for sure. Yeah. I love the way he plays. I think he'll play well in this camp. Upcoming games are Ecuador on the 10th of October. And then the 14th we play Australia. Australia, yeah. In Austin, Texas, the first one,

and Commerce City. the second one. Yeah, suburb of Denver. Yeah, suburb of Denver. So yeah, I'll be at both games. I'm sure it's going to be another fascinating camp. And yeah, maybe we'll catch up after before. I'm sure there'll be lots to talk about.

Can't wait for that next press conference. I know, man. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much, Doug. And of course, thanks for having. Safe travels. We'll be following your work. And thanks everybody for listening.

We'll see you.