Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #653: JJ Devaney joins, gives us his sense of Poch's tenure, the coming World Cup

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

The host of long-running former ESPN podcast Caught Offside joins Vince and Belz to discuss what Poch has been up to, whether it's working, Banner the mascot, and where several players probably stand in the depth chart.Look for Caught Offside with Andrew Gundling and JJ Devaney on any podcast platform, and here's there subscription service (kind of like a Patreon, I gather): https://caughtoffside.supercast.com/ Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff Podcast. We talk about U.S. Soccer. Hey, everybody. We got a special guest today. He's one of the hosts of Caught Offside, the long-running soccer podcast that helped me through the dark days of 2017 and beyond. He's a native of Ireland, been in New York for a long time.

Always fun to listen to. I really mean that, and we're happy to have him. J.J. Devaney, welcome to Scuffed. Thank you so much. Is this my Scuff debut? I believe that it is. It is, yeah. Wow.

What took you so on? Somebody will make a comp. Put it on X.com. No, that's, no, that's great. Guys, thanks for having me. It's great to be on. And I should return the compliments to you. You guys have been flying the flag for long enough yourselves.

And it's, it's great. It's great to be on. I was just thinking, you know, when we were about to do this, back when you and Andrew were recording, you know, you're calling Pulisicicic Baby Jesus back in the, back in 16, 17. I was doing that. I don't think Andrew was.

Oh, I thought Andrew, I've pinned it on Andrew mostly. With Boy Wonder. You're right. It was Boy Wonder, wasn't it? Yeah, we had Boy Wonder Watch, which was voiced by Don LaGreca. We used to get Don to do our imaging for us. He'd do the voiceovers. And Don is now the voice of the New Jersey Devils.

So we've all come a long way. Boy Wonder, I don't know why I had to go out of my way to be blasphemous there. No, but I occasionally do. I do get into the, into the sacred and the profane every now and again. So I do, I do use religious imagery, Adam. It's clearly. I know that. I know you do.

So, I mean, I just remember, like, back in those days, it was, there were really two places where you could listen to somebody talk about the men's national team where it was actually enjoyable to listen to. And it was, in no particular order, it was you guys and Total Soccer Show with Daryl Grove. And I just want to say thank you. because you guys stuck with it. You're still doing it. It's still fun to listen to.

Thank you. So kudos to you. Oh, Adam, this is coming from you guys who have built such a great following and are kind of, I don't know, like you guys would be the, I would say that the premier stop for US men's national team

and US soccer related content. That is very nice of you to say that. I do feel it was like plowing a lonely furrow for a while in 2017. It's like the sense of, right, they're not going to be here. Who do we need to pivot to? Was massive. And at ESPN, I don't think, I won't say anyone.

Okay, they didn't care because they didn't have the rights for that world, for the Russian World Cup. And so like we were, we were on an island with ESPN anyway. We were doing our own thing on the Upper West Side. And so when we got into the studio that night after, after what happened against Trinidad and Tobago, it felt like, it felt like everything was over in a way

but we had to keep going and we did you know we had the Dave Saracan interregnum and then we had Bear Halter and and like it felt so far away like 22 felt so far away it really did and then

you think about it between 2017 and 22 with a global pandemic you know a whole bunch of players retired a new manager like it was it was insane And now here we are on the edge of a World Cup in 2026 in the United States and Canada and Mexico. And I can't believe how time is flown by.

But I just want to say thank you very much. It's a great compliment. And there was many times. I will say this to you, and I'm sure you guys feel the same. It was many times I would be coming back from our studio on the Upper West Side on the D train at all hours of the night, having watched us play some bang average stuff. You know, at some, not to be disrespectful, some Caribbean holiday. you know,

honeymoon destination and thinking, where are we going here? What's happening? Is this worth it? What am I doing? All those questions. So it's nice, it's nice to think that those people out there listening.

Yeah, we know. We are no strangers to those questions. Yeah. Well, hold on. Before we go any further, I want to glaze, I want to glaze JJ some more.

Oh, please, real quick. It's the season. That's because, as a person who got into, who got into soccer, I wasn't here for Trinidad Tobago, right?

I didn't, I wasn't here to go through that. Who got, who really dove into the national team after the World Cup in 2018, you know, it was my holy Trinity, scuffed TSS caught offside. Wow. You know, that really got me into the thing. It really helped me dive, dive like both feet into soccer. Even from like, I was thinking about this. Like, I've been, I've been knowing you coming on and thinking about this for the weekend.

You know, you and Andrews insistence on. telling people to support your local clubs, you know, talking about your support of Slago Rovers. Yeah. And things like that. It got me, because I'm in Louisville. I'm in Louisville, Kentucky. It got me to jump to jump both feet and to supporting my local club, you know, Louisville City, FC. And, you know, just, everything kind of follows from that, you know.

I've been, I'm going to keep it real with you, JJ. I don't listen as much now just because I'm doing this and it's, and it's tough. I don't like having people's opinions in my head. No, no, no, I get that too. I like trying to form my own stuff. But, bro, to have you, to be here talking with you on this pod, it's a huge honor. And, yeah, you were one of the shepherds that got me through the, you know, got me through the pasture and showed me the way. Wow.

You were bringing on the religious imagery now, yeah. New Testament, Old Testament. Yeah, it's all coming together. Well, listen, I appreciate it. I appreciate it and I do not want to intrude upon your listeners time anymore with, with this, with this glazing effort. But it means a lot to hear that. It really does. And yes, definitely continue to support your local team because that's where you bear with.

Oh, on the cold night, watch your team in the spring play. And that's where it all begins. And it's where it all began for me. So, yeah, that's Vince, that's amazing. Wow. Let's pivot to the big news of the day, which is banner. the USA mascot for the World Cup. It's a dog.

It's a dog. It's a happy-looking dog. What do you guys think? What do you guys think of him? Him or her? I don't think. I'm going to jump in straight away. Banner is no Stryker.

I'll put it that way. Stryker was a dog I could relate to. I feel Stryker was more in line with my vision for this country. The first thing I saw when I saw, the name, I thought, there's some marketing executive and I want to see the check that was cut for this because, because wow, oh my God. First of all, do we need to do this? That's the thing. Do we need to have banner? And then someone in the comments had written below, for a second, I thought it said banning. And I was like, oh, God, yeah. And now I can't stop thinking about that.

and like, you know, they're trying to delve into our, you know, into the national anthem and things, things like that. Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah, that was their, that was the blurb that they had with it, you know, inspired by our national anthem, you know. It's not, it's not just, I mean, some kind of munition considering it's the United States, you know, the rocket's red layer. Rocket. Yeah. Oh, here's a, you know.

Yeah. I mean, that's a, they probably didn't want to be as basic. You know, that's a, that's a dog name, you know, Rocket. I mean, I had a family dog name, Rocket. Relatable. Yeah. You know, you could, I mean, you talk about being inspired by things. This mascot is not inspired, though.

You know, if you looked up generic dog mascot, I assume that's the costume you can get from many places. Yeah. In whatever city you reside in currently. You know, I mean, at least give us some edge. I mean, you talk about Stryker. Stryker at least had a little something to him. you know, this is just like a dog. Stryker looked like he played a bit, didn't it?

Right, right, right. Yeah, and we also had, we had so many, we had, they branded him really well. So I remember Stryker was kicking a ball regularly whenever I saw him. And I don't, I just think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think Banner has kicked the ball in ever, probably not since high school. He's a cheerleader. Banner's a cheerleader. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

I hope, my great wish for Banner, because it reminds me a bit of poochie from the Simpsons, You know, that everyone really unites in hating Banner. Like, it's a thing. And then Banner grows in our hearts after a great tournament. That's the best we can hope for for this guy. We hate him at the start, and then we have success. And he's associated with that success. Because otherwise, this is a disaster.

Yeah. Yeah, we've got to fight back from this. I thought I read, go ahead, Vince. You could see a striker delivering some criticism after a match. You know, I'm saying? that had let him down Banner. I don't think he has it in him. Yeah, I could see in the same way that set bladder

went after Janie Infantino after the draw last week, I could see Stryker releasing you know, some kind of commentary being disappointed in Banner and the choice of Banner, how he would have done better, how he was available, but no phone calls were made, and that the agent's number was with US soccer.

And that Stryker now retired in Fort Lauderdale is quite upset. I can see that happen. The fact, I awaited. Hey, real quick, a little biographical stuff. You're from Cork, right? No. No.

No. Okay. Four hours to the north of Cork. So you've, I had a lot of friends in college from Cork, and their accent is so lyrical that we would make fun of it and we would imitate it, and then you ended up talking like them. But I'm from a place called Sligo. Okay.

In the northwest corner, it's tucked in between Donny Gull and Lytram and Mayo, and it's an hour from Galway. It's beautiful. So that's where I'm from. I'm not from, I'm not from Cork. I'd be much more arrogant if I was. Okay, so I was going to ask, so how are people from like the Sligo Galway part of Ireland,

different, you know, in speaking in shameless generalities, different from people and like, Oh, sure, yeah. I mean, Cork people, people from the South, I would say Cork and Kerry, due to their historical background, like Cork was one of the last

places after the the treaty with the British in 1922. Cork was one of the last places to stop fighting. In fact, it didn't stop. It rolled right into the civil war. So Cork never accepted. Many battalions of the old IRA never accepted that. So it's called

the Rebel County. And there's a sense that they're different and there's a lot of Cork people, they call it the People's Republic of Cork. Like that it is genuinely a different place within that small island of ours. And they they look down their noses at other people. Or that's the general sense we get of them.

And they don't think Dublin's the capital. They think Cork is the capital of Ireland and all that kind of stuff. Whereas we're from the west of Ireland, which is honestly, Americans who tell me, oh, I've been to Ireland and I'm like, where did you go? Well, I spent three days in Dublin. I was like, you haven't been to Ireland then. Like Dublin is fine, but real Ireland is the west of Ireland and the west coast. So Claire, Galway, Mayo, Sligo, Limerick.

Kerry all all along there that's that's real Ireland and it's rural and it's different and we were hit hardest by the famine economic problems

since the foundation of the state in the 20s so like we we feel unique immigration has been part of our of our story traditional music things like that

we are we're real Ireland and we can claim that in a way that other places can't But we have more neutral accents and we're kind of easier to, well, say we're easier to understand. I'll leave that up to your listeners. But yeah. I'd say you're easy to understand.

Yeah, yeah. So that'd be the main difference between us and the South Cork and Kerry in places like that. And the Dublin people from Dublin are just fancier and. Oh, no. Well, Dublin for a long time was the second city of the British Empire. And so Dublin people were seen as different. Dublin was described as the pale. There was a ring around Dublin city

that was considered inside there was much more Anglicized, much more English, much more like people from England. I'm not saying people from Dublin are not Irish. They are, but they're Irish in a different way. And Dublin, when I was growing up, Dublin always had the trends first.

You know, fashion trends, music, all that stuff happened in Dublin first and it kind of filtered down to the rest of us. That's the way it felt anyway. And Dublin's just massive guys. It's like a million and a half people. And we have no city, Belfast, Cork, Galway, or nowhere even close to what Dublin has.

So it's kind of like this outlier on the island. I know everybody has a story about Ireland like this, but I got to tell it really quick. I went to, when I was 19, I went to Galway. I was staying with some relatives in county cabin. Yeah. Like some dairy farmers. And I said, I'm going to go to Galway for the weekend.

Sure. By myself. took the bus out there. And I met these two guys, two young guys. This was like a couple weeks after 9-11, 2001. A couple of young guys, and they took me to a bar, and we watched soccer, and we smoked weed, and they were so hospitable to me, you know. And then I stayed in a, I stayed in, like, a hostel or something, and I took the bus

back to where I was going to go. I fell asleep on the bus. All the corners in the countryside looked the same. I fell asleep. I woke up as the bus stopped. I said, oh, no, this is my stop. I grab my bag. I jump off and I realize as the bus pulls away,

I'm still like two hours from where I need to go. Oh, yeah. Oh, and you go so, and you took the bus at so many small towns that you can't tell the difference of. Right. Am I closer to cabin? Am I further away? Oh, nightmare.

But it sounds like you had a good time. I had a wonderful time. And I hitchhiked, stuck my thumb out. And the first car that went by was like a little, I don't know, Volkswagen bug or something, driven by this portly detective from Dublin. Oh. He was going from Galway back to Dublin. And he drove me two hours to the front door of where I needed to go.

A way out of his way about the sounds of it. It was a little bit out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And I'll never forget that. I was like, man, what a country. Dude, I remember, and again, we're kind of.

going into the old days. I remember in the 90s, like people would thumb strangers on the side of the road in Ireland and my dad would pick them up, give them a lift. And like we'd be in the car with him. And there was never a sense of,

well, this guy could be absolutely insane or whatever. And people used to hold out signs and say where they wanted to go. And it was, yeah, it was a different time. I'm glad you had such a positive experience. And yeah, that does. I think everybody who goes to Ireland does. I don't, I've never heard a,

Well, anyway. Yeah, mostly. Mostly. I think so. And then they meet someone like me and they're like, oh, go. So, okay, to the men's national team. Yeah. What do you think, what do you think Pach has done since he took over?

You know, we talk about this a lot. Everybody, everybody who listens to us has heard our takes on this. But I want to hear kind of the story from your point of view. Like, what happened in March? What did he decide he wanted to do? What did he do? How has it worked out? out. It's such a, it's such an interesting question and it's so, um, like you know,

when you guys get it, we're talking about it all the time. And I actually think in many ways, we're in, in the worst position. Because if we watch the team play the way they, the way they did in the Concaf Nations League in March in, in, in those games in the semifinal and then the third place payoff, you're like, you can't, you can't, um, project. forward. You can only talk about what you've just seen and it was bad. Things were bad and I can't pretend that I didn't say on the podcast

this isn't going well and that we didn't have our reservations and that we weren't concerned about just the astronomical amount of money he's been paid that Murcia Pocitino's been paid and not say like it's got to be better than this

and I can't say I you know I can't sit here now and say I saw all coming together I can't say that because I was there saying this doesn't feel qualitatively or results-wise better than like the last stages of Greg Berhalter because it feels like there was this is a horrible hangover

from 2024 terrible stench coming out of Copa America and you look back at that and you were feeling just like what a terrible kind of wasted opportunity that was and I felt like this is just dragging on. And now, as I sit here, like a week out from Christmas or so, I feel, I feel different.

I feel like Potches used this year differently, completely differently. I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes, but he's kind of, like, if you go back to the January camp, he unearthed guys, I mean, Luna in particular. I say on earth. We knew, like we knew of their existence, but we didn't see them.

Well, I actually did not know of Maximilian Arsson's existence. I did not, I did not know that was a person. That's neither. That's fair enough. And look at how those two names have kind of cemented themselves

into the consciousness now. It's not a case of, well, well, you know, those were the January guys. And what I felt what, what I felt what Pocitino was that he's kind of used the year to look at everyone in a really kind of egalitarian manner and in a way where he's

like, I'm going to see what you can do for me. What you do for your club, ideally we want you get minutes. Nobody wants anybody that's not playing regular or semi-regular. But I'm not going to discriminate on the league you're in. I'm not going to discriminate based upon or you're in this massive form like Josh Sargent was. And therefore, you must start. You are the obvious. I'm going to do this my way and it's going to be a process of getting guys into camp, working with guys and seeing what I've got.

And I felt with Bearhalter, and I don't know if you feel the same, that things kind of got stale to the point where Bearhalter had a very clear idea what he wanted, not just in terms of playing, but personnel-wise. Like, I feel like

Musa, McKinney, Adams. Like, that was your three. and anything else that came in was because of injury. And I don't feel that way with Pocitino. Now, I'm saying ideally Tyler Adams will be starting. I would say that. But I think there's two other positions in the midfield or maybe three, depending on how we think about the team that are open.

And it feels as if there's a freshness. And with Pachatino, I think he's genuinely looked at this and thought, I have a year here, right? Now, how do I want to do that? Do I want to call up all the regular guys? And I particularly think that the inflection point was March, where he's like, right, we need to start this again and do something different and find out about guys, give them minutes. Like, there was one point where I saw stat. I can't remember what game it was. And the longest active streak was Diego Luna. And you had to think about it. And he totally tore up the book with Matt Freeze. He just decided, I think.

think after the Switzerland game, I think, I think Freeze deserves a run here. And that's thrown away a lot of experience from a goalkeeper that the previous manager became his staple. So it was like all this discovery and up and up front as well, the different things that he tried to do, the different strikers he's gone through. It's all about a process towards him knowing, as he said himself, the right guys. I think he, I think he's looking at that. this guys and he's saying it's not about having the best players on the field it's about having the guys I can rely on and the guys will do what I want to do and that genesis moves us right the way forward to they're still friendlies but to particularly the Uruguay game now we'll leave

aside your guys issues for one second I think that was the clearest idea of what Pocitino wants this side to be. And it took us, what, eight, nine months to get to that. And that's what it's been. And I can sit here now and I can see the gradual movement towards what he wants. He wants a team that's going to fight in a tournament, it's going to play the way he wants to play, is going to be high energy, he's going to commit numbers forward,

and is going to try and create more chances and flood the box and get guys in. The first minute, it was so interested. The first minute of that, that game against Uruguay. If you look from the kickoff, the ball is rolled back. And we send like seven guys forward on the first minute. And the ball goes flying into the air up into the box,

targeted ball, and we're looking to win second balls and play from there. Look at the Alex Freeman goal. That to me is everything Pocitino wants. First of all, first of all, Alex Freeman being that high up the field, making that run,

I don't necessarily, and I know we were very much, under Bearhalter like ball progression crosses creativity Dest and Robinson were massive in that but I think there's even more freedom from

Pocitino to get guys forward to kind of like play risky in a way Bearhalter didn't and the thing for me was look how that starts Sebastian Bearhalter actually gives the ball away. It's almost like it's poor from him

And then Timothy Tillman with a tackle, when's the last time you saw a US men's national team smash into someone in a tackle light? I literally felt it in my shin bones. But what is it? It's winning the ball high up the field in an advantageous position turnover and the next thing there's a run-in

and it's great little bit of play by Freeman to wiggle his way through and score. That's Pocitino. That is what he wants. And I don't think he cares who it comes from. And that is the progression I've seen along the way. And wouldn't you think, wouldn't you prefer to have seen it done this way? Rather than just like try and get all the guys we know about into the camp.

You know, the true, the true masterful bit of it is like, you had to find a way to create some type of competition. When the competition is not going to be external through qualifying, we're not going through that crucible, you know. That's a great word. And, yeah, you look back at it, it was just like, it seems to be, to me, to be no more, like no better way that he could have executed this. You know, with the Gold Cup, maybe it was a blessing in disguise that Christian did not come to the Gold Cup because they would have put one more person in, you know, to create that competition amongst the squad.

And now you see when guys come in, they get that opportunity. First of all, a player like Tim Tillman, who was an injury replacement, feels like he has an opportunity to, an injury replacement who wasn't even called up to January camp, right? it feels like he has an opportunity to make a mark and potentially be called into the World Cup roster because of what Potch has done throughout this year. And then secondly, you know, but because of that, because of that belief,

he comes in and he's flying. You know, it's just... Vince, it's such a good point. Like, you had to create some kind of jeopardy. You had to make these friendlies matter in some way. And clearly he has. Now, look, there's a flip site. I'm the very man on my podcast that said,

I didn't love what I was hearing after March. Like that Scali was, Scali spoke to ESPN and said, I haven't been called. I don't know anything. I don't, I didn't love that because I don't think, apart from some stuff internet rumors that Scali,

it was stuff Scali may have got up to that turned potch off. I don't know of a single, like he was playing out of position in both those games in March. And I felt like to cast him aside like that, a guy who for me shows a lot of leadership in the Bundesliga, I'm like, maybe that's not the best thing to do. But, like, you had to create some kind of tension here. Maybe, like, that thing with Policic was a chance for Potch to stamp his authority.

And, and again, you just go back to Bearhalter for a second. Go back to his very first press conference and compare and contrast him with Pocitino. And I know there's different resumes and Bearholters coming into the back foot being an MLS manager. But think of it. You have that question from Alexi Lalas where he's just, he's just so funny when I think about it. Coach, tell us how you're going to play. And it's as a bear halter just like reads off.

We're going to be a possession base, push from the front, blah, blah, blah. But it feels as if he had to do it to say it the media and to say it the fans and to like, oh, well, I am going to be progressive. I am going to pass the ball. We are going to be a possession base side that wants to dominate the opposition. And Pachitino's done none of that. Pachitinos flipped it. And he said using the vehicle.

of Belisic, I'm the manager, I'm not a caretaker, I'm not the janitor. Not the janitor. You know, like, I love that quote. For his bearholder, it's all coming at him, and he has to keep everyone happy.

Pachitino's keeping himself happy. Yeah. Like, and like, look at the way he used the press conference for the, for the, for, after Uruguay. Or was it Uruguay, where he had to go at Stephen Goff? Yep, yep, yep, yeah. Like, that was, that was, that was him seeing an opportunity to go two-footed in the way

he wants his players to get in and win the ball. He literally wrenched back the narrative here and he said, I am the manager here. I'm going to, you don't tell me who the regular guys are, and this goes back to my original point. I'll tell you who they are, because I'll pick them.

Whoever's playing is the regular guy. And, you know, it was just a chance now. Fucking take hold of this thing and say it. Because he, I felt after March, nobody turned, there was such a small crowd at that, at the game against Panas.

like the fact there was a lot of things going on the fact that the CBS Paramount team were literally involved in the celebrations with the Panamanians like it was like it was the media like remember how hard theory Henri was in on the US

like it was all converging on Potsch here and then you had Polisic in the summer and I think he had a he had a decision here like I'm I'm going to set the tone set my stall out I'm I'm the manager here I will dictate how things are going, whereas it was the other way with Bearhalter constantly on the back foot forever. And that showed in his performances by the end. Like, were we a high, high pressing team under Bearhalter by the end?

Like, not in any real sense compared to this latter stages of Pocitino. Now, here's the caveat. This could all be, this can all fall apart within a half an hour in your first game in the World Cup. Like, this is all fine this talk. But if you're asking from what we, can see now from the development across the year. It's been interesting. He's done it his way

and he's kind of, he's got to a choral group of guys slower than me or a lot of us would have wanted, but I think, I think largely going into the winter, it's work. Go ahead, Vince. Well, okay, so we're sitting here now, the benefit of hindsight,

obviously. I'm just wondering JJ throughout this year, like, Gold Cup, friendlies leading up to Gold Cup, all this stuff. Like, did you, did you believe like when when did you turn around was it was it when we beat japan like like me kind of oh yeah i'm as late to it as you vince okay okay i'm as and that's what i want to say is that like um like there's there's no all-knowing person like you look at look at some of the stuff um uh i was listening to esb nfc uh kacey kelly keller was on and i mean kasy kelly keller just

went to town on it and he he spoke about the stuff he'd heard from inside the camp the rumors of the lack of communication, all that kind of stuff. And especially the Brentford interview. Like, I don't know if it was as formal as an interview, but I'm sure he spoke to them. Like, I think that's the long-term game to get back there. I'm sure he had a chat with them. I think he would have been foolish not to. But there was all this building that it was like, this isn't going well.

And there was plenty of articles about it too. So it was as late as the Japan game for me. and like again I don't want to to over what is it over emphasize friendlies but this is all we have to go on and I definitely felt like the second half against Uruguay as well like there was times where we linked the ball there was layoffs for chances even shots that didn't go in where I thought this is this is something this is much more like it Uruguay were a rabble but like we've played other teams before and never really done that and we've never done it under Pachitino. So yeah, it definitely was late for me. But now I'm seeing things in a different way. Like look at the Ener Valencia's goal for Ecuador against. It's a hell of a goal.

It's a great goal. I still think Matt Fries could take one step further to his right and maybe he gets to that, but it's still a great goal from a guy who's 36, 37. But if you look at the goal, like it comes because we've committed so many people forward. It's our turnover. and all of a sudden it's just

Chris Richards and Tim Ream slightly out of position dealing, I came down to being just Richards versus Enter Valencia and he would have loved to have done better but like that that kind of speaks to you about what Potch wants and like isn't that what we all want though? Let's have a bloody go like let's really like I felt towards the end with Burrhaler that we were caught in between two stools of like well you must be you must be like defensively sound and everything and

and then we were just getting beaten anyway and it didn't really matter and I'm not saying we can't be defensively sound this way but one last comparison because I'm on a tangent here and jump in at him and stop me but I feel like and it's no disrespect to Bearholder

because I do think there was things he got us doing I do think the changing of the garden getting those who were young players then in and getting them passing and moving the ball and sticking with things like if you remember the friendly against against Mexico in September of 2019

in New Jersey. Remember it like it was yesterday? Yeah. Like to me that was like Aaron Long and us persisting with playing trying to play out through the back and we were just getting

getting mauled by Mexico. And you think then what happened over the next two years we started to assert dominance in finals over them and we just stuck with it. There were good things that Bear Halter did. Sure.

But I do feel towards the end it was becoming, oh, here's the center black, back splitting, and here comes the midfield to the drop in. It was like, wrote, we were doing it. I don't know if we were doing it with, like, what the kids call intention now. Like, it just felt like this is what we do to try and keep the ball.

And often, like, we didn't, we stopped creating chances. We started doing a lot of the same things. And unless Pulisic had a bit of magic in them or there was some kind of dramatic bit of play from Dest or Robinson whenever we could call on them, it didn't feel, Even our goals at the World Cup It just felt like we just had to pull it out of the situation

It was just For us to score But I have a question for you about all this About all this So the sort of psychological component of it all is fascinating to me Potch asserting himself How much of that egalitarianism Going two-footed at Tenorio and golf

After the Uruguay game How much of that is just him asserting his dominance over the players, you know? Like saying to the regular group, you're not the boss. Maybe you were the boss under Burrhalter, but now I'm the boss. Like how much of it is that? And to Andrew Gunn, I was listening to you guys a little bit. Andrew said he maybe was taken aback when he arrived at how perhaps there was a lack of

eagerness to participate with the men's national team. So, I mean, I know it's all a little speculative, but what do you? how much of it is that? Like him sending a message to the players? Oh, I think it's a hundred percent the case. He was stung, by the way the media treated him. I think he did walk in a bit naively into this with his resume and coming from Argentina and replacing an MLS,

a lifetime MLS coach. I definitely think he thought he'd get more respect and more time. And we said on the pod when he was appointed, he needs to understand the feral nature of, US soccer media and which is driven by fans who want questions asked, who are curious, interested. You can go on some Reddit threads and see some really good tactical breakdowns by supporters. Like they're much more educated and I think he underestimated that.

He made the missteps with like talking about, look at college football. Like, why can't we have atmospheres and fill stadiums like that? And like totally different. Like college football is hot house within its regions. And it's not the same thing. It's, you know, traveling support. We play in many different venues around the United States. I wonder, I would like us to have college football crowds at soccer games too.

I think it's, I know what you mean? I think it's harder, but I do think we have a good fan base, but it's a lot to expect the fan base to travel within the U.S. all the time for these games and pay top dollar for tickets all the time, whereas when Penn State show up, a lot of them are from the hinterland, from the area, or they're traveling by car. You know, it's a little bit different. but anyway I do feel

he was stung by the way he was treated the things that were said but back to your point about the players look at the way look at the way Bear Halter

got his second term players were consulted senior players were consulted we know this and they were happy to have him back right why were they happy to have him back probably because they ran the dressing room

and you may like that to a point but they there was a safety within that. That's been broken by Potchitino. So your point is very well made and I do think it had an effect. We're on the podcast now. If you'd ask me four years ago, would there be a debate

whether Weston McKinney, like what's his position within the squad? Does the manager like him? Does the, like, I don't think I know. Eunice Musa, partly for club reasons and etc. But like, look at his performance against England.

I know. The 22. I'm he's back in. So I think the sacred cows, more religious imagery, the sacred cows have been, I won't say put out to pasture, but can you put a cow on notice? These cows are on notice. From, from, from, cows like going out to pasture.

They do, they do like pasture. Okay, well, all right. I'm thinking of Simpsons gets in. Yeah, that one where Troy McClure is at the meat factory and he's with Little Billy and he goes, he goes, now the cows go to the killing floor. And Billy goes, oh, no, no, Billy, don't let the, don't let the name fool you. It's more of a sluice where the meet.

But like, he's definitely put a sense of fear into, into the players. And, like, I do think that message was, was towards them. I am the arbiter of what happens. Like, and nobody else is. And I know from the inside, he's being well received by, by the top, by the, by the big wigs in MLS. I can tell you that. He's brought in a bunch of MLS pairs, which is a surprise. But he's not bringing them in, like, he has not brought them in because he's been told to.

Right, right. He has not, I don't buy into that kind of talk. I think he'd walk out. I think he'd walk out. Why would he stay around if he doesn't have control of this thing? Not the janitor. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, that's where I am with the whole, the whole narrative.

There's definitely an arc to this thing. We just have to kind of figure out or plot what part of the arc we're at and how close to the top of it we are by the time we hit next June. Yeah. Okay. Well, go on even bigger picture here for a second. I like to fantasize about the impact of the World Cup in America. I just imagine millions of children getting converted to the sport

when they see us win two zero over Spain in the quarterfinals. Yeah. Yeah. Setting aside how realistic that specific fantasy is, how do you think about that issue of cultural impact? Like, will it have a big impact? Why might it? Why might it not? So it was interesting because you were throwing, I let people go behind the curtain a bit. So on like Thursday or Friday, you threw out a Google Doc with a few thoughts on it. And that was one of them. And that's the one I thought about all weekend. Okay.

Yeah. Apart from Anthony Robinson coming back. back, which was, yeah, we got to get to that. Well, well, we will because I want to talk about that. Yeah, that was the one I thought about most. And I started off from like, if Vince worked for FIFA and Vince offers me a job, I thought about, well, my first thoughts were very kind of football is the global game. And it brings in everyone and households and families and communities together and all that good stuff, right?

Which I remember from 94. not being in this country but being in Ireland and I think about it and now I'm not sure the impact so I think I mean the US go on a run

or even even just have a decent tournament that is going to bring along so many new people that will do that and young kids like I was even kind of caught up in 94's run I kept saying to everyone look the US only lost to Brazil 1-0

I remember being in the school yard saying and they don't even have a professional league and those kind of things so it does play in the consciousness but I'm trying to think of it in the age of the internet now like we have there's football's never been more available now I would say over here

with the kind of all the multi-platforms and how much you have to pay to watch it streaming and all that it's not quite as available as you want to think for for like say lower income families and things like that but it's everywhere now and it's on YouTube and there's highlight reels and there's clips and there's all this so like how is a US based World Cup going to bring people along 2025 and then I thought again about the recent

news who's going to be at these games that's a good point I I love the idea that like Timmy and like Jose and and Sally down the block are going to be able to go to these games with their parents

but I'm not so sure I'm looking at it right now unless there's some kind of major fall in ticket prices or like how are people going to get there how are people going to be present

at the games TV again is going to be massive it's going to be watch party that's the way I've reconciled is it's going to be watch parties like that's where people are going to have a meaningful experience Because Timmy and Sally and Jose are not going to go to the games.

I'm not. And I worry that it's going to be like, think of a, like, think of a stadium that's 40 to 50% populated with Jared Cushner's. Like, that is my major worry. Like, that kind of money, it's preposterous. It's going to be a library. Yeah, yeah, I do. And we saw that kind in the opening game of the World Cup and Qatar where they, like, they had to, the stands were filled with people who were really not that interested but had the money to go to the game as a spectacle.

And once guitar knew they were getting hammered, I mean, the place was empty. A lot of seats were empty after like 70, 75 minutes. So I don't, I, these are the things I worry about. I hate being like this. And Andrew tries to pull me away from it because there is a majesty to a World Cup. There just is. It's so cool to watch these stories. And we're going to have like, it's going to be bigger than ever.

there's going to be so many groups to get to get our teeth into and there's there's so many like matchups and we're going to have Norway at a World Cup we're going to have Erling Halland at a World Cup at the high end and then at the other end you're going to have like well possibly D.R. Congo you're going to have like Currisau like it's just that is cool stuff that is good stuff and we're going to

that's going to grab the interest of people but I would I'd have to agree with you Adam in terms of like it'll be you watched with your dad in front of the TV you went out in the backyard and you played, you tried to recreate the goals, the same way as we did it. Because it seems just prohibitive now. It really does.

And then, you know, there's the other news, which is, I don't know how this will be enforced and having some kind of idea of how US immigration works. Like, incoming fans are going to have to present

five years of their social media before they get an esta. I mean, if they even try to do that, we're going to run. All I'm saying is there's a backdrop to this that doesn't, 94 felt kind of open and cool and weird. And I talked about it on our last cutoffside plus pod. We ranked our top five World Cups of our era.

And I talked about 94 so fondly. And, you know, like Brazil and the Netherlands, they played out a classic in like the Cotton Bowl in Dallas. Like, yeah. Do you know, it was, it was weird and it was wacky, but it was, it was fun and it was a good tournament. It was embraced. And people, people enjoyed it. And I feel, I, I haven't heard a cool thing yet, apart from the stories of California.

You know what I mean, Vince? Like, I haven't heard a positive thing yet. Like, it's all been tickets. It's all being hotels. Who the fucking afford these hotels? Like, sorry for swearing, but like, there's nobody here, can. I know. And that's my major worry about impact

Because if you deny people going to the games And I will say this And I know it's like 30 over 30 years ago But the amount of guys I met in like their 30s And their late 30s In their 40s and in their 50s Like through soccer in the city here Who like have their ticket stubs from 94

Yes Yeah And they went with their families like Right They just happened to go They just like their dad decided Okay we're going to go to a World Cup game Yeah

That is not going to happen this summer. It's not going to happen. Nobody's going to be like, oh, well, I guess, yeah, yeah, we'll go check it out. Nobody's going to just go check it out. No. It's not happening. Not at a thousand bucks pop. Yeah.

And, you know, we had Rio Ferdinand at the draw in D.C. last week telling us, you know, how FIFA are aware of this. And, you know, we were told that there was not going to be secondary, that the FIFA would control the secondary market. And then I saw a report today that Todd, Todd Bowley's vivid seats or, you know, he's selling tickets for the final for 22,000. Yeah. That's the high end ticket for the final. At least Kevin Hart, who fell in love with the game in 1994 as well. At least he'll probably be there. Well, I'm glad because if Kevin Hart couldn't be there, I'd be really worried.

And of course, with Chase Freedom rewards, it makes it much easier for Kevin Hart to be there. Hashtag ad. Yeah. Yeah, I saw a tweet. I think it was like some English dude that was trying to like follow the team throughout the group stage. whatever, lodging, travel, tickets, all together. He had it on a piece of, like, computer paper.

He had, like, scribbled all these things down. Grand total, $42,000. Oh, come on. Oh, my God. Like, that's insanity. That's, like, the average single American, like, wage is, like, well, 45 or something. I think it's around there, yeah.

So it doesn't sound too good, huh? It's not going to happen in the stadiums. The Cultural Impact. It's too prohibitive. How can it? It's going to be, it's going to be, it's going to be what you said. I'd love to think there'll be like, so a friend of mine was talking about ideas for me, for, for the World Cup. And he's like, you're in New York.

Why don't we pick a day where Senegal are playing and somebody else's playing. And we will zip around New York and record this thing. We'll go to, we'll go to the, we'll go up to Harlem. We'll go to, say, Columbia are playing. we'll go to Astoria, you know, we'll drink it. Albania's,

qualify or whatever, we'll get down to, to Benson Hurst to an Albanian club and hang, just do the whole thing together. That's what it'll be, guys. Yeah.

Yeah. I hate saying it because, like, I do believe in 94, we brought something to the tournament as a host. I do believe that's not,

that's not like, misty-eyed nostalgia. I'm sure there was things that were not great about that tournament. too. But I feel as if our worst greed excesses were, you know, like, were managed. And now I'm seeing how we're going to have mandatory water breaks, which are necessary, but we're going to run ads in the middle of them, of course.

And they're going to be across all games regardless of whether the heat is at that temperature or not. Why, you know, like I just feel as if, and again, I'm not going to go political on it. Nobody wants to hear that. But I would just think that the, the social and, cultural zeitgeist of the moment is very much locked into like, let's make a book. Let's make a book and gouge and it doesn't matter. Wherever we can make cash and we've handed, we have handed the World Cup over to people.

It feels like the president of FIFA has handed the World Cup over. And it's, it's, um, right now, somebody tell me something apart from the fact that a game is close to me and that'll be fun to watch on TV. I need some positivity right now. Well, I don't know if this is positivity, but is there a chance that the bottom will fall out of the secondary market for these tickets in the weeks before the game, the games? Because I don't know. I don't know what the global appetite for $1,000 seats is.

But couldn't it just be, okay, dynamic pricing, the dynamism is suddenly the arrow is heading down. And the people who paid $1,200 for the tickets are trying to off. load them for 400 or something. Is that possible? Could that happen? Yes. That happened in the Club World Cup, didn't it? 100%. Yeah, I was going to say that, Vince. Like, there was five people in Orlando for, I can't remember who was playing in the game. And there's so many groups. Like, that's the other thing. Like, I mean, there's going to be some games and the desire to fill grounds won't be there.

So maybe you'll be able to get to a World Cup because, like you said, the bottom will fall out of that secondary market. and you'll be able to go online and get something for like maybe within the region of 100. Now, that's not going to be for the big games are going to be crazy. As we saw in the Club World Cup, the bigger crew was like when Boko played Benfica, there was still a few empty seats in the hard rock, but it was more or less full because those are two teams that travel. It's going to really test the psychopathic fan bases, like we'll say the Scottish fan bases, the English fan base, the Mexican fan base

has been so resilient to pricing throughout down the years. Like they will... I believe in them. I think they'll face this challenge head on. Like they are the velociraptors of football fans. They find a way, as Jeff Goldblum said.

They will always find a way to get there and more power to them and to their credit they always do. like if Ireland qualify because of the base of Irish people here and the base of Irish people who will travel and just like mortgage their futures on it those are what FIFA are relying on

but again like you know if you're I think Haiti in a different climate could fill a stadium I think they could but are they going to want to show up for this I would like it's I mean the diaspora may do it anyway I'll be all on them

because we know I don't think that travel ban is changing anytime soon. So there's all these things to be considered. And am I still excited? Yeah, the football fan is excited in me. So here's, I just don't want this World Cup to be, you know, like we've stomached so much the last few World Cups, right? And we stomached the Winter World Cup and Qatar. And because the storylines were so good with Morocco

and with ultimately Argentina and that great final. and the messy story, we went away thinking, well, they've done it again. FIFA have done it again. We all had our objections, but here we are watching. I just don't want this to be the one. You talk about the ass falling out of the secondary market. I don't want the ass to fall out of the World Cup. I'm where finally people say that's it.

I don't want it to be at our World Cup. How does one go about submitting their five-year social media history? This is a crazy, like what do you even do? I can even find old tweets of my own. How do you download it into a simple thing? And what kind of immigration officer is reading through it? No, nobody's reading through that. Nobody's doing it.

You're going to throw it through Palantir or something? Jesus Christ. I don't know how anyone's doing it. I don't know how it's in any ways accessible. We'll do a special how-to episode for people on that front. How to wipe your social media before the World Cup. Yeah, I don't know. And what is, like, what will you have, what, what do you need to have tweeted for you to not to get access to the United States?

And also why you, like, like, I wonder if there's like really obscure, like, if there's a level of American hatred. And if you hit a certain point, that's, you know, like, like, you can make fun of American celebrities, right? That's at the lower end. Yeah. Unless they're beloved, like, say Tony Danza. Can't see anything. But if you have a tweet with the word Trump and hands in it in the same tweet, yeah, see you later, buddy.

You're out, man. If you're an English Chelsea fan from the years, you know, 2019 to 2021 or whatever, you say something about Polly, you might be out of here, brother. You're so right. Yeah, all that Policic hate that happened. I remember saying I think Policic is a better finisher than Mason Mount. That does not seem like a very controversial tweet. And, oh my God, I feel like the whole of Chelsea did,

what part of London is that? West London descended upon me. So I don't know. I don't know, guys. Let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll talk about Jedi making his triumphant return to the Premier League to starting a lineup in the Premier League.

There's a lot of other stuff. I want to ask JJ about the movie Miracle. I want to talk about Pulisic. We'll be back in a minute. All right, we're back. Anthony Jedi Robinson made his first Premier League start since May. Went 90 minutes and a 3-2 win over Burnley. What a relief, no?

Yeah, huge relief. And he was good. He was mostly good. He did move a little gingerly, I thought, in the game, as I would. If I was coming back in and had been out as long as I'd been out. And I was at Burnley, I'd be like, whatever happens, don't like, let's just stay on the field for as long as possible. And he did. I will say I had like this moment where it was Josh Cullen that played the pass for the Burnley Equalizer.

And he split Calvin Bassy and Anthony Robinson. I was like, no. But also, yes, this is good. This is good. Josh Cullen, assist. I don't think that was his fault. I mean, maybe he could have been a bit narrower. or I tend to think that Bassey was gold-side of the attack.

I think it was a Bassey. Yeah, it was more Bassey than it was Anthony Robinson. What I will say, what lifted me was his pass to, to Harry, to Wilson for the second Fulham goal. Yeah. Was that Bassi's one? Yeah, yeah, the nod at the far post. Like, just, that is just what he brings, guys. That was so good.

So just to quickly refer, anyone who didn't see it, it's cornered, the ball comes out and Robinson is tucked in. And the easiest thing for Robinson to do right there, especially a left footer player, is to do what we see all the time, is to take a touch and then clip it back in with the left foot. Just float it to the far post. Hopefully someone gets on it.

But he plays this wonderfully perceptive pass. Now, Wilson has to make the run. Big stretch too. Big stretch too. Big stretch, but it's a good ball. It's a really nice ball. Big stretch, Wilson controls it, pops it across and it's a goal.

And it's just like, it's one of those things where you're like, this is his value to us. You can see Baligan. I can actually see Balagan making that run or I can see maybe someone from deeper making that run like Malik Tillman or somebody doing that and us lobbing the ball, Polisick, and us Robinson making that pass.

And it's just that little bit of invention to do something different. And it was good to see that confidence was there. Yeah. And he could have had an assist himself. He clipped one just a bit behind Smith Row in the second half when he went down the left-hand side. do you know what the most heartening thing was

the best thing for me was in the second half there was a few times when Chukuezay made those runs down the left-hand side and Robinson was sprinting with him so those kind of like deep box 60-70 yard runs no he didn't get it Vince did you see the way he made that run on the he made it on Harry Wilson second

or Fulham's third goal was it? Yep he didn't get the ball but you're like, he's done it. Like those minutes are invaluable, absolutely invaluable. And he was able to do it. And like, I would say it's frustrating enough playing with Chukawesi at times who's like probably like really wants to get on, be that guy who finishes things.

But Jedi made those runs really important that he did that. And that was so good to see. Like it's just good to see. Like I said, I do think he felt like he was moving gingerly at times. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah, a little bit. but like nothing, nothing major.

And the confidence he'll get from like, again, like I said, making those runs, making those passes. Because like you think about the injury, he had surgery in the spring and he was still feeling pain after it. Like you hate hearing that stuff. You know, especially at his age. Because he's in those peak years now where he needs to be playing all the time. And sometimes like he's 27, it makes me think,

God, like he's been around that long, you know, all the way through Everton and Wiggin. Yeah. He's just been so good. And I'd say, you know, Fulham haven't been great. And they've definitely missed him. So he's a great player to have back,

and that was a crucial three points for them. That made me feel good. That definitely lifted me there. I want to hear your thoughts, too, Vince, but he was dominant in the air, I thought, which is good to see, you know? So I thought he was moving a little gingerly too, JJ, but I don't know,

I watched him against Oxford United, his only other start this season so far in the Carabao Cup. And he, I mean, in that game, he was like tiptoeing around. Yeah. He was barely fit to play. And it's fear as well. Probably that as well, yeah.

But this was, I thought, like a clear step up from that. It's crazy that he went 90 right off the bat after not playing for so long or not playing much. Yeah, I thought he was great in the air. I thought mostly looked strong and fast, to your point about the runs. Pretty good in duels. I mean, there was one time where he was. He got kind of worked down in the left corner. I forget by who.

Yeah. But mostly he was just stonewalling people. So it seems like a huge positive development. It's Vince. You want to come in there. Oh, no, I mean, I agree with you, JJ. It's just about seeing it, you know? Yeah.

The fact, I mean, because we're worried about his physical fitness. You know, we'll worry about like match sharpness and all that different type of stuff. Like, you know, he did have a giveaway deep in his own half. Like, right into zone 14 almost where he was trying to lob a ball over to, like, I think it's right back. But it got picked off. And, you know, Burnley is just there and able to fashion a chance off of it. But, like, I'm not worried about that. No.

What I'm worried about is seeing him making those lung busting runs, following Chequoese, as you were talking about. And as long as we got that, we're good. And then on top of that, he's able to get, you know, the hockey assist. for that second goal. And so it's gravy, man. It's gravy. And I keep harping on this is, you know, remembering how Potch used Jedi, how Jedi was basically like a key piece that Potch was playing with, you know, moving them around you. We saw him inverted.

We saw him in his first match. He was, you know, wide left and we were just hitting long balls to him over the top against Panama, like repeatedly. And he was, I would say he was. man in the match in that match. But yeah, I think, I just like to keep hammering that home, you know, because I see people saying that maybe, like, you know, we can't use Jedi in the same way that we're using Max Arfston. And I don't necessarily believe that, you know, two different skill sets, obviously, two different skillsets, but I do think we can get that, we can get the same utility out of Jedi by using

them slightly different than we use Max. but, you know, he can fulfill that role. And also Jedi's role as a fireman is going to be really important to go along with what you were saying. Earlier, JJ, about we play more risky now under Podge. You know, his ability to get back and snuff things out is going to be really important in the world. Yeah. And look, we're going to be, we're going to be oftentimes, I feel like, in transition when the other team gets the ball.

That's going to be absolutely key that we fill back in in midfield. We fill back into a three at the back as well. And Potch isn't going to stop him getting high and deep. You're so right, Vince, because I've forgotten. Early Potch when he had Robinson, we were away somewhere. I can't remember where it was. And I just thought, look how high he is. And like all the time, keeping him high.

And you're right, different skill set to Arsden. he's a better passer the ball generally than Arsson is. He's far away in my view better pass of the ball, not to say that Arsson can't swing in across. But it was, yeah, it was really, really good to see him back. It's good

just for him. Do you know what I mean? Like he was, he seems like a good guy. He seems like a guy who really, really committed to playing for the US. Yes. And I enjoy watching him play for Fulham a lot. And

and for the US and he's just so important to us. And like I hate I hate the thought of these these kind of injuries and the frustration he must be feeling not being able to be involved, not being able to be in around the camp and everything.

And it was just nice to see him back and getting the win. And that those 90 minutes will mean they're going to mean so much to him. Yep. But now, you know, is the real test. I see, I would love to be in that full of training room today.

You know what I'm saying? Let's see how it's bouncing back. Is it the side? Does it look like a beach ball? Yeah. On the need today. You know, all that different type of stuff.

So we'll be able to tell next week what's really going on with regards to Jeddah. But, but I mean, you would think to be able to come back in and go in the full 90, like he's should be somewhat good. I would think so. I would say, if he's sore in the hammies,

sore in the groin, sore in the quads, calves. Yeah, that's expected. That's expected. That's fine. You just don't want no more pain in that operation site or

anywhere near that knee. Yeah. Okay. A.C. Milan drew Sasuolo. I don't think we need to talk about it too much. Pulcic came off around the hour mark, apparently a tactical choice. I just mostly want to ask, I mean, Vince, if you have something to say about this game, let's get into it.

But mostly, I just want to ask you, JJ, to explain how you think. Like, what do you think of Pulisic's evolution as a player? We talked about 2019, 2021-era-era. Chelsea where he had it he had ups he had downs um what do you make of where he is now and what do you think how do you think he's changed yeah he's um it it's interesting um because he almost spans the entire length of of our podcast you know it wasn't it was like 2015 2016 when he started really coming on on the radar and um i i i wonder if he'd gone to Italy

straight away, like if he didn't go to England. I think England was something that pile pressure and our expectations rose so much. Like he's, there was such a spotlight. You know, NBC were always going to talk about him.

He's the American at Chelsea. It was such a big, big move to make. And it was a qualified success. You know, he played in a Champions League final. I often think if he'd slotted in that in that Champions League final if he'd scored

when he came off the bench he had that 1v1 yeah um what that the one where he noticed the video of Gio Raina

kind of celebrating his miss I don't know if you remember that yeah yeah yeah there was a US camp going on at the same time and Gio he was watching from a conference room

and he's like he sees him miss him he's like oh that's right oh man anyway anyway yeah yeah so so I think um like like

and he's became this like what you didn't want because everyone just got out of whack of of expectations and you know like first of all Chelsea has has it ever been a really great place for for youth players to come and to blossom like not really

but at the time it seemed like such a big move and I can see why he did it and like I said like earlier on when I tweeted about him when he was fitting on the field and the stats back it up. He was very good for Chelsea. It took him a while to settle to get into the side.

And expectations over here were just like through the roof, like through the roof. We didn't just want him to start. He had to be doing something amazing every single game. And now he is doing that at one of the biggest clubs in the world, whatever you think of Syria compared to what it was in the 90s. We had James Horncastle on the podcast last week. and he talked about Polisic

and he talked to juxtaposed Polisic with Raffa Liao and he believes Liao could be if he wanted like in the category for Ballandor

you know and it's right now it's Polisic doing the doing the things for that team that you would expect or would have expected

maybe a couple of years ago that Liao would be doing 100% this is brilliant this is great and we should enjoy it for that

the fact that it had to be done in England just shows how out of whack our expectations got. Well, Chelsea's a great place to go to not do so well and then have your next stop be like incredible. Didn't, I mean, Kevin DeBreina?

Yeah, DeBrona. Christian Puse like, I'm sure there anymore. Salah in a way. Sala, although Sala had a bit more of a circuitous path. Sala didn't work out at Chelsea. DeBriana didn't work out at Chelsea. I say they didn't work out. Maybe Chelsea didn't work out for them.

Right. Maybe that's the way to frame it. and then they went off and to have two of the best careers we've ever seen in the history of the Premier League. Look at what Polisic has done. Look at what Scott MacTominy is done. They've shown their value and it's not a flash in the pan. Now, you could argue both players gave something to their Premier League teams and were cast aside because maybe narrow-mindedness or lack of patience, whatever you want.

But they're there and they're playing in a massive league and they're doing fantastic. fantastic. And I see a lot of like, I saw last week the latest was Policicic to Manchester United. And I kind of caution against that kind of stuff. I just, I wouldn't, I, I wouldn't do it. United are still not fixed probably at any level, really, board level, certainly not at a recruitment level. And probably not right on the field right now. It's still not 100% sure that this manager is going to work out there. And I think stability is being key for, for Polisic. He's, somewhere where he's comfortable. He's breaking records for an American

player in Europe. Why? I wouldn't mess with that so much. He's regular access to the Champions League. You know, another thing he learned in England is I think he did start to become a box arrival under Lampart at Chelsea. And that is like

his bread and butter now is his movement in the box, his ability to get on the end of stuff. As opposed to being a guy who just would have his heels on the chalk, get the ball, and then turn and burn at people. You could say he's added more of that to his game, but then I think of one of his most explosive moments was,

you just described it there. Was it against Napoli at home where he gets the chalk on his shoes and he runs in behind and he has the assist. Oh, that's true. He did. God, like that was so good. No, but you're right at him. Like he does more, like he's definitely arriving

and getting on the end of things way more than he used to and who better to kind of emphasize that to you than Frank Lampard. But it was, I wonder though, my question though is what, I mean, do you think he can sort of put himself aside and be that kind of player for the national team? Instead of having everything run through him all the time. Yeah, and that's a great question because I still don't think that's resolved. And we haven't seen enough of him under potch to say that that's gone away. There's oftentimes particularly early stage potch where things weren't going great, where he was still dropping in the midfield and then trying to beat.

a couple of guys getting fouled. Getting fouled a lot, getting hacked. Like he picks up more knocks and you think, you don't need to do this. Like your movement alone off the ball.

And I often thought that the national team, as much as he says he loves playing for them, and maybe it was realized this summer, is a burden to him. I think it's a burden because, and I don't mean that in a disrespectful fashion. I mean it in the sense that when he goes on the field, his ego says to him that he must do everything.

And he must be, both the instigator and the finisher of everything. I still see that so much in his game. It's to the detriment of the team, I think, sometimes, and I think to the detriment of himself because, like, you're going to get hacked. You're going to get destroyed. Like, the frustration levels at the end of the Uruguay game

in Cop America, how many times have we seen this kind of plaintiff face, like this kind of like anguished face from from politic where I think he can do more by doing less have confidence in the guys around you to get you the ball and to cut it back and be on the end of things and be that guy that's leadership too um and I would I would I think we have not seen his fullest potential for the for the national team in the same way we have for Milan I like I think that's fair to say it's like his DNA is USA but but but He doesn't quite know how to, he doesn't quite know how to, you know, work with that.

How can we channel that, that patriotism? Too much, too much USA in there. Yeah. Maybe. You know, we've seen him work through it, you know, the, when he got, when he got yanked from that match, you know, his crown on the sidelines, a Burrhalter and everything. You know, I mean, Canada in the Nations League. Right, right. When you say it's like a burden, like, you're right, JJ, because it's just, everything was voiced upon upon Pully, even.

during the the Coova cycle. Yeah. You know, I mean, he almost dragged us to the World Cup. It would have been all on his shoulders if we did qualify. So it's just... Yeah, there's the picture of him in Cuba sat on the grass

and after he's... I mean, he's the one that scores the goal there. And I think there was maybe a saying, even the hype was that he was going to be the one to lead us to Russia and there he is on the grass and it's like from the godfather. Look at how he's,

you've massacred my boy. You know, like, I worried for him then. I was like, like, this is, this is a lot for someone so young to process. And I think he's way more comfortable in the club game. That sounds mad because don't forget, there's huge pressure. And that, that draw yesterday will not go down, go down well. There's a chase for a skedetto on for A.C. Milan. And that's not a great result at all.

And let's not underestimate the pressure there to perform. But he's, like, it is, it feels like a heavy weight for him. And I would love to get him to just like kind of relax and like, like Bell said, be, be, can we be less American about it? Just like, you know, you don't have to be Superman. You don't, you don't have. There's no need for a hero complex in this and, and let everyone take their fair share of the, of the weight of that. And let's not forget, he did wave off a Pachitino substitution at one point, you know? Yeah.

What game was that? Was that the? Oh, this beast It wasn't at Nations League It wasn't at Nations League Oh, I think it might have been Was it not? It might have been at Nations League

Was it not? Was that not the... It was Canada. Okay, yeah. Was it what? The third place game? That's probably what it was. Oh, I mean, that's the one you want to be taken off.

I know. Yeah, see, just toned down a little bit. It was one of those two games. You're right, I think, Vince. Oh, God. Yeah, there was. He didn't want to come off. And then we were told it was some kind of miscommunication.

Uh-uh. I'm not buying that for a second. No, that was really formative. Those two, those two games really kind of set things in motion. Yeah. So maybe, you know, Potch asserting himself and saying, like, you know, I'm not the janitor, is really all about him getting Pulisic to be more of a cog in the team. You know, the good kind of cog, the kind of cog that's creative. So I will say I thought he was good against Japan in that match.

and then the Australia match where he does get kicked out of the game. We almost kind of needed him to drop back. The game was getting gumbed up quite a bit with Australia match in our shape. And I hate to put this on him. But James has not playing that well, not helping us facilitate play and get out from the back.

But I do think maybe, you know, we need more data. But I think we're starting to see it happened for him. Yeah, yeah, like, and we do need more, probably need more examples of it. And we need a longer run at this thing to know exactly if he's, if he's moving away from that. The thing about the Australia game and the, you know, like, that's a learning for all of us now going forward to the summer. Like, we want to be a team that battles,

but we, we do not want to create a war. Like, that is, like, that worries me more than, almost worries me more than a really good side. Like, you'd rather a real soccer game occur for us. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Like where you can win individual battles but not create like this kind of constant tension

constant like head loss that the Australians will want. This is an aggressive sporting nation that we're coming up against. Not to say that we're not aggressive in our own way, but these guys will want to do that to you. Because pound for pound we have better players than them. We have players playing at a higher level than them.

We don't want to get sucked into it. Like you'd be better off playing against Viduca Kuel version. like Tim Cahill version of Australia and they were dogs of war as well but you're better off against the team that passes and wants to be creative and wants to be forward thinking

and progressive rather than a team like them that can't happen because you get funky results out of games like that yeah you and Andrew were kind of disagreeing about whether you trust their players to deal with that let's just go back to what I said like do I know enough about them in the white heat of battle

Yeah, it's going to be a eye-opening to see them try to pass that test, I think. I thought we, better than the Burrhalter era, I thought we have handled Australia well, and I thought we handled, who's that, Paraguay? Paraguay. So obviously Uruguay, I know Uruguay were a mess, but we outfought and out battled those guys. Yeah, because that was a big thing for me just as a former college football player, JJ. Oh. The, um, you can't have, you can't have, you know, uh, surge hitting somebody in the chin.

You can't have somebody kicking the ball out of the stadium. You can't have Westons. Like, you know, I understand emotions get high in them in a game or whatever. But it's like that that's where your discipline shows, right, is in those moments. And we got to be able to walk away from. And I thought we did. I thought we showed some growth in those areas in those two matches. So I'm, I'm hoping that maybe we,

We got a new leaf turn. 100%. And you want that, you do want a level of aggression. And Potch does want that, but it's got to be controlled aggression. Got to be controlled. It doesn't lead us into situations

where we're down a man, or we get knocks or injuries that we don't need to have, just because we're chasing vendettas on the field. Yeah. Okay, we're in the 81st minute here. Oh, my God. That's too much for me.

That's three much. No, no, no. This has been great. Let's do three more things. Real quick, Pepi scored another goal, penalty. Dest had a really nice run and assist for another goal in this game.

The winner. Yeah. Toteel, goose teal. I just want to know where you think Pepey stands. I mean, we're applying a 50% discount to the both of these actions because they're in the air of dizzy. But, um... Oh, no.

But, and, and... I'm not doing that. Hold, and before you go, JJ, um, I also want to know your, your thoughts. on Ballo too because I remember I remember you were down you were down on Ballo as a as a striker way back when at a point okay okay I was about to say you were

looking at because I was like no no you're right okay I was just trying to recall exactly when what what period that was we're talking about like him committing to the US like you know back or maybe even rumored of him committed to the US back then yeah I don't think

like the the hype of him committing um matched like what he then showed on the field. But I've been, I've been more happy, in fact, quite pleased with what I've seen lately.

Let me start with Pepe first. So as someone who's watching Troy Parrott, his every move for his at Outmar, who I think are playing today, I'm not applying any... Okay, fine, fine, fine, fine. I'm not... Seriously, guys, I'm not doing that.

And I think Pepey's goal against Galatasaray in the chat... Excuse me. Yeah, Pepey's goal against Galatasaray in the... Champions League. Was that Galatasar? He scored against? It's so hard to remember. You're talking about the left-footed one that was...

He's all... It's coming off a a Parish corner. It's last week. Oh, the one where he just taps it in at the back post. Oh, yeah, but it's more than a tapping. That ball's flying

and he stabs it with the underside of his foot. That's what I love... That was Adelaide. Oh, excuse me, Adelaide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm thinking of Balagan. Again, Monaco, Gallatas, right? No, that was brilliant.

That was really, really, good. He's been, if you notice, he's been dragged by the defender. And so, this is all he can get on it. And he controls that one expertly. How many times would you see that's go off the bottom of your studs and go out wide? Or spin up off the inside of your foot,

go out of bounds, yeah. He's an instinctive kind of in and around the box striker. Like, I like the things you're gonna he's not, he's good in the air. He's, a lot of his finishes are quick snapshots where the ball is breaking. He scored another one in the Champions League. I know it was via deflection when maybe the keeper does better or whatever.

But like he's a fox, I hate the term fox in the box. But he is a bit like that. And he gives you something different. Now, I don't think Potch is going to go with him because I think Baligan has made an impression in the last few games. A lot of, there's something happened. I think it may be being fully fit and just feeling himself again. But I think Baligan's been very good the last few games.

I think the early going against Ecuador, I thought he was like running the channels, running in behind. He had a couple of early channels. there and it was just pure explosion. And I thought, he had the bit between his teeth for that game in a way like that was beyond a friendly match. Like he's like, I have to prove something here. And I saw, now he had, he had a miss.

The goal he scored against Gala to win the game for Monaco last week was like, like he comes, I think he goes in off his knee from a corner. But, and he missed a sitter before that. But the running, the runs he was making, he makes one in behind. I think it was Minamino, play the ball. in behind to him. And it's like 50, 50 with the defender. And he blazes past him, uses his strength. And he's one v one with the keeper. And maybe he's not the most polished finisher. He puts his foot through. It goes over the bar. But like, I love that run. I love that explosiveness. And it mirrored what he did

against Ecuador for the US. I think he's coming into it a lot more. And I think he's the premier option in that kind of a difficult center forward thing that we're always trying to work out. I think it's him and then there's Peppy and then there's Hadgy Right. I think that's your that's kind of your order right now.

I'm glad you're saying it because we say it on the podcast all the time that he creates, even if he missed that chance, the one that he blasted over we got his shoulder between him and the centerback. He gets that chance

when most of our other centerbacks I mean most of our other strikers don't. You know, he gets into that position to score in ways that our other strikers can't. His layoff spinning behind game is just it's good.

It's really, really good. Now, you want to play to his strengths. You don't, you know, like he would be a very frustrating forward to have. If you're in a game, you don't have much of the ball and you're isolated. But at the same time, if you spin one in behind, he's a willing runner. The goal he scored from Monaco at Bodo Glimt as well. Do you remember that one? I'm pretty sure.

Was it a left footed banger? Like, off the road? Yeah, yeah, yeah. From the tight angle. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's what though. Yep. So, so like this guy, like he has, I, again, like, what I say is the most polished finisher in the world, but I mean, strikers, a lot, most strikers, unless they're the really highest end, they can be streaky anyway. And I, I just like what I've seen. And I think that's my, that's kind of my pecking order there. Okay, balligan starts, Peppy off the bench. Yeah, we ride. If the game's fight, you need something, Pepe can give you, can give you plenty as well. And it's kind of Pepe's role at his club, you know, um, it's what he's.

he does. And as Pepe's gone on, I've liked him even more. And I think Hadji Wright's kind of development is interesting too. And he's a player who's Potch clearly likes as well. That's kind of where I'm at with the strikers. Also under the tutelage of Frank Lampard. So. Yeah.

Again, but I told Frank, why I didn't tell him. But I said by my podcast, I said, Coventry in places like that is where he should have started, you know? Like go there first. Yeah. And then branch out. Why is it fox? Why is it fox in the box is kind of an unsettling, unsavory term?

This is a weirdly sexual kind of Beatrix Potter. When you say box and fox, there's like there's the slyness of the fox. And then box has imagery that you're, ooh. Yeah, you're just like sneaking in there. Neaking in there. And then there's also just the bloody mess that foxes, if you grow up in the countryside, the bloody mess that a fox can leave of the hen house. Yeah.

That kind of imagery there. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're going down a dark, dark path, guys. Yeah. Okay.

Let's stay out of there. No Kai, Banks. Is he turning a corner? I don't know, I don't know how obsessively you've been following this young centerbacks development. But because of our paucity of confidence-inspiring centerbacks, it's a major point of interest for us. Go ahead. It is. So I'm not going to lie to you and sit here and say he would be, like, the first guy that I'm looking for when I'm, like, say, you know, I go through how things went at the weekend for the U.S.

I'll, you know, first of all, I'm thinking, which is just, again, very, very kind of basic bitch. How are the US doing? How are the strikers doing? Who scored? Who assisted? That's the first way you go. What I would say about him is, and again, I noticed it on the rundown that you did at him, was like, we're turning a corner at 19. Who's turning any corners at 19?

Like, oh, my God, it's just, it's the way we talk about footballers, and I'm not criticizing you for it. I think like, I'm fine. When you talk about JJ, you know, it's just the courage of doing this every week. You know,

we create our own narratives, you know, spin on me. Sometimes we turn a corner and then we turn another one and then we turn another one and then we're back where we started. Exactly.

Exactly. 100%. So what I would say, what I like about what's happening there is, you know, there's obviously a kind of a, there's a growth path he's on. It's one of the most difficult positions

to come into when you're young. like it's like if you look at like the history of a lot of great player Stephen Gerard springs to mind like even if you know they're very good midfield or strikers or whatever where do they go in when they start their career

maybe at full back or maybe on the wing or something like that you can ease them into the side and he's in there kind of centrally and in the thick of the action what I like about him is that like I know he's right footed but like he's comfortable on his left as well that's massive

and I know comparison isn't fair but if you're watching the Scottish League Cup final at the weekend or any Austin trusty Celtic game yeah like we I worry about like

that position for us should a mishap happen you're not sold on trusty I'm gathering well who is like yeah yeah I and it I have

some Celtic fan correspondence who are lobbying for us to talk more about him. But yeah, I agree. I mean, Brendan Rogers went back and forth. He did. And ultimately, it was one of the things in the resume that the board had at Celtic about, about Brendan Rogers, like,

and did he have the right to say what he did, that he wasn't backed in the transfer window, trustees, what was it, seven or eight million? Or was it, maybe it was closer to 10, whatever.

That's a significant chunk of change for our Scottish Premier League team to be putting out on a player that's not, that's in and out of the size. and he's not sure about. And it could be that this Celtic side is unsettled because of Cameron, Carter Vickers not being available. It could be Liam Scales is kind of like, brilliant one minute, terrible the next minute kind of form

and that kind of spreads through. Maybe trustee's in a bad side. But like we do need to look at kind of other options. Like, my gut, again, another thing I didn't think, certainly prior to the 2022 World Cup was that we'd entered the next World Cup, Cup and Tim Ream would be still front and center. Yeah.

And Chris Richards. And Reem not in the set. Well, I like Chris Richards, but like I didn't think it'd be Ream and Richards. Richard's going to have a lot of minutes up. Going to have a lot of time up. When you get into that outside of January and February, you know, a knock could happen. Where do we go then, guys? We just got to pray for a miracle, you know?

at centerback yeah five times a day trying to bring all the great religions into this yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely well look at um

our friend at Augsburg and look I'm I'm not watching him probably he seems to be a point of interest for you guys yeah let me say something real quick went 90 190 in a two zero went over

Levercuzon a week ago I think played pretty well that time and then I think he did put in a more interesting performance. I mean, Levercousin hit the post like 14 times in that year. So it was like really, really on a lucky thing ultimately. But a more interesting performance in the one zero loss to Frankfurt. He had a goal call back.

He was just narrowly offside on a corner kick after, not on the corner kick, but on the, because you can't be offside on a corner kick. That's impossible. But it was off the flick on the corner kick. It was like a step offside. But he was doing a lot more carrying of the ball, finding passes between the lines. I still think he's a little bit sleepy about what's going on to the right of him as the left, as the right centerback and a three-man back.

There's times where the ball gets played out there and he's kind of, he's tucked in and he's just kind of, oh, yeah. And then there's nobody over there. Is he quick at him? Vince. Not really. I mean. He's quick enough. that face faint says it all man you can't roll back from that yeah yeah i mean you want to quick i would

say no not not at this point if we're talking about like world cup level you know you're facing whoever jordan boss coming down the the left side for australia um is he able to um stay stay stride for strive with him no not not necessarily uh he's not he's not outlier quick no Okay. League average. Do you what I'm going to do with you? Do you know what guys? I'm going to tune into,

I'm going to grab a game, right? That he's playing. And I'll do a, I'll do a brief scouting report and I'll send it to you. And if it tallies with what you've seen, you can, you can make it more. That'd be awesome.

Yeah. Please. All right. Yeah, let's move on from him with a corner, corner turned. Who knows? Who knows?

Who knows? Who knows? Number two, I think last week of the week before, you know, I came on here in Bells, we were talking. I was like, man, I don't understand how he continues to play just because of like some mistakes he was making on and off the ball or whatever. But this is something we talk about a lot. We talked about it with Tanner, Tannettestment. It's like, man, these young players, you got to find a club that believes in you. Augsburg clearly believes in Nokey.

He continues to get, he continues to get minutes. at this point, I mean, is it what, six, maybe eight matches in a row he started, I want to say. Yeah. He's going to start for a long time because they're capped in the central defender. He's out with a knee injury until like April. Guys, this sounds very positive overall, you know? It is positive overall. It's just he leaves me wanting a little bit in his performances from week to week.

But he's, but he's a young lad in it. Yeah. And when you were 19, Vince, imagine me evaluating you on a very popular podcast. Bro, come on, bro. Come on, imagine me. Vince hasn't turned the corner yet. Right, right. Oh, man, the corners I was on when I was 19.

Oh, yeah. Bells turn the corner a little too sharply and hit the telephone pole at 2 in the morning. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some very rough film sessions for me when I was 19. years old. What position did you pay, Vince? Offensive guard.

Okay. Yeah. Last thing. Tillman had a great game versus Kohlm. 2-0 win. He had a backheel pass in the box that should have been rewarded with an assist. Just a heavy touch from Kofane, I think is his name. And Preston won.

It went 1 v.1 with the keeper blasted it over, played another little pass in the box that could have been an assist. and Leverkusen dominated. They're fun to watch. They're fun team to watch. Yeah. Still. Still, after like, what Jabby Alonzo said in place with them.

Right. And all the messing that's gone on since, they are still an entertaining side. He's another guy that's really kind of come through with Pocitino. He's still fleeting for me, though. A little bit. Yes. Yes.

There's times when I'm like, God, like he's got everything. And then there's other times where I'm thinking, like, you know, he can fade out of games dramatically or he can, you know, feels like concentration is not fair, but it's, it's something like that. It is. But like, I think Potch really likes him. I think he's made the most of the time over this year that he's had and the starts he's got. And I mean, again, fulfilling the things we want, like playing.

regularly and and, uh, um, slow start, obviously trying to get fit. Uh, and then a lot of disruption. Like, like, like serious destruction, but like, uh, no, I like him. I'm sure you guys are pretty high in him. Yeah, we love him. But I think you're right. He's, uh, he's a very cerebral player. He kind of likes, he's sort of, I kind of feels like a football idealist a little bit. Like, things have to be, he wants to do things that are perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm way out over my skis here. But I do think there's something there where he's not quite as good week-to-week as he could be. No.

I do think that's one of his better games on the season, though. You know, he's making plays everywhere just as far as, like, defensively. You talk about pressing winning the ball against him one v-one against a keeper. He won the ball at the press like two or three times, pressing with intensity. things that, like, you know, I mean, similar to JJ's point. It's like, you know, things you don't always see necessarily from Malik. But, I mean, I think he's pretty much fixed this. You know, last year with PSV and then into his stint with levercues and just his like off ball intensity.

I mean, he's, he really brings it now. And he's so big. Once again, he's just a huge person out there running at you very fast. And he's, I mean, he grabbed the ball off of multiple cone defenders in this match. just season on loose touches. Vince, to that point, he fits into a category of younger footballer and I can think of a few names,

not all US men's national team players, where you're like watching them and you're thinking, you've got so much, but you're not that assertive, you know, and I feel like that's coming a bit more into his game. Like he could do so much more and has also the frame to like knock a few people around to be like kind of more dynamic. He reminds me a little bit, not at totally different positions, but like,

Evan Ferguson, who's only like recently kind of hit a bit of form at Roma. But it's like you see them sometimes and they're like quite, you want to, you want to just like scream at them. Like let's go. Come on, come on, come on, come on. Pick it up. And I think, I think if his survival, he's got to keep that level, his survival under Potch, like relies upon that. And I talked about Balagan and that kind of like, I do, I definitely think there's an intention. Potch is looking for from his players.

And if you're, it doesn't matter how skillful you are like a Tillman or whatever. You have to bring that level of intensity first and foremost. And he's gotten that he's gotten that tune out of Malik. Yeah. And you, you know, whenever Potch talks about Malik at all, you know, I mean, the most glowing praise of probably anybody in the pool. Definitely.

Like him, they really have a, they really have a relationship. All he needs to do is break his nose now like, uh, Yeah. Maybe he can be on Times Square, man. Maybe he can be in the ad. Exactly. Exactly. All right. Let's get out here. Well, real quick. Just before we end the Millie Temple thing. So clip notes coming. Ladies and gentlemen, everyone knows. JJ, you might not know. We release on our Patreon a video that comprises all the week's action from our lads overseas. usually about 12 to 15, 16 minutes.

Think of it as maybe like six comps put together. Beautiful. Essentially. The good and the bad. The good and the bad. And you give that to your subscribers. That's right. That is amazing.

Where can I subscribe? Patreon.com slash scuffed pod. Oh. Skuffed pot. Yeah. That's right. And I brought that up. I brought the clip notes up just to say when I was grabbing clips this morning.

just I lengthened Malik's out just a little bit because in this match you can see him I linked him out because you can see his process and how he finds pockets of space within Colon's defensive shape he really like you know takes

his shoulder checks you know looks around gets his 360 degree view and then he'll just find the sweet spot right in the middle of you know the triangle of defenders around him or whatever and he knows where his player is

that he's going to pass the ball to either first time or whatever or either first time or when he receives it and turns and finds him you know he has all that he just really showed a mastery of that in this match and when you talk about him being like a football

idealist and I think his his view of what he wants his football to be I think it was realizing this cone match and so that's why I just wanted to I just wanted to get that out there because I enjoyed really watching him. And he was really pulling strings from the 10 position

and the way that I really want him to. You know, Bells, we talk about him, passing the ball backwards a little bit too much for our liking. But, yeah, in this one, he was really cooking. He was really cooking. And really, before we get out of your, JJ, if you had to start somebody, Malik Tillman and G.Rena in the World Cup. If the World Cup, if Paraguad match was today.

Malik Tillman. Okay. And listen, I'm on the record. As much as I like Giorina, I don't think it's a technical issue with him. I don't think he can get around the field in the same way Malik Tillman had, the league Tillman can.

I think there's a, I think that's one thing that strikes me, struck me in a, when he came off the bench in a Champions League game last season, was athleticism. Modern game, guys. Modern game, you know, there's always place for the,

for the small, skillful player, but the athleticism, getting up and down, getting around. I don't always see it with Rana. So I'd start telling them. And saying this, it just made me think because I watched them both this morning. The same plays that Malik was making in the press, Gio was kind of pressing in the same areas.

And the defenders were able to get the ball and get it away. And Gio was just doing a lot of hacking out there. So he was able to, I guess he was able to kind of control the space by not allowing. and play to continue because he was just getting there late and like nibbling at heels or whatever which is which is cool I'll take it uh I guess but there was a there was a stark difference um and that just popped in my head when I just heard you talk about yeah and that's the way I feel when I when I watch him and also just an final point on this who's who's more likely to get injured or get hurt trying to play that kind of game record wise I'm not saying

Tillman has been completely free of injuries he hasn't put Giorina's record is like maybe that maybe that kind of game is too robust for him. Yeah. Hard to disagree with either of those points. As much as I love Gio Raina. Yeah. By the way, that's an awesome service that you offer. That's brilliant.

Cautoffside.supercast.com is what we do for our plus service where you get more of me and Andrew rambling on. It's awesome. Imagine you don't have enough of it on the free pods. Go over the plus and get more. Cutoffside. Dotseparcast.com. Okay.

Yeah. And you guys go, you guys just go longer, just go longer, go deeper? No, no, sometimes we do extra segments.

Sometimes we go longer, go deeper. Sometimes we do extra segments. There's something we want to talk about. Sometimes it's mail bags. Sometimes it's, we have to do one soon where we have a Zoom with our subscribers and they all come in and we chat and we have fun with it.

Or we have like, we have different segments that we've done. some quite bizarre ones, if you've listened to the podcast. Or we'll just talk about something that everyone's talking about right now and whatever, whatever takes us. It's often, it's often brand new and different content. And sometimes we go longer depending. Okay.

Yeah. Check that out. Also, just if you, if you're not ready for that commitment, caught offside soccer. Offside everywhere on all the platforms. Spotify, you know, Apple Podcasts everywhere, wherever you listen to your podcast, guys. And listen to both of us. That's the best thing you can do. That's right.

I mean, like I said, that was part of the Holy Trinity. And actually, I remember you've got me through some sleepy drives home from games. You know, because of the fact that y'all have the, you know, rapid reaction out, you know, what, hour, hour and a half after the game's over. You know, I remember driving back the qualifier in Columbus against El Salvador. door. Whoa. Wow. I got in my car and I was so damn tired. I had to drive three and a half hours back to Louisville.

Andrew Goodland and J.J. Devaney took me home, man. That is so beautiful, man. That's such a lovely imagery of you. Us basically helping you avoid road traffic accident. That is amazing, man. That's cool. El Salvador, wow. Oh, man, we've done so many of them. Like, Dave, oh, those years, like, yeah, those years, I'd say, like, 2016 to 2022, just incredible years. Nuts, nuts.

And that is, these compliments are too much. We started with a glazing at the start and a glazing at the end. So I really appreciate it, guys. Yeah. Okay. Hey, thank you so much, JJ. What a pleasure. Thanks everybody for listening.

Clip notes going to be out later today. We'll see.