Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #656: Sacramento Republic manager Neill Collins joins the pod

Episode Date: January 9, 2026

We talked about what the World Cup will mean for the sport in America, how kids are introduced to and grow up in the game in Scotland, the heartbreaking end of Sacramento's USL-C season, some coaching talk, some Kenny McLean talk, and lots more. Good chat.https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfI4Cp1VpS2eCphsNjf6QHdaRDq86Tf-FeUhJ2tQ0RzkbxQhw/viewform Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuff podcast when we talk about U.S. Soccer. Hey, everybody, before we get into today's show, just a quick plug for the trip to Germany and the Netherlands. It's April 18 to 26 this year. Get to see the boys tuning up for the World Cup at Barusha Munchin-Gladbach versus Mines, PSV versus Zwoll, and Koln versus Leverkusen. So that's a lot there in the Rhine River Valley. and also a trip up to the Netherlands, and we've spent some time in Amsterdam,

which is a fantastic city. We're still accepting expressions of interest on the Google form that I will put in the show notes. If you have any interest in going, if you think definitely you will go, please, please fill out the form. We're starting to turn the screw. Some emails are going out to interested parties

on the details, and we'd love to have you join us. It'll be most likely Vince and me, we're going to have a great time. So come to Germany and the Netherlands with us. All right, to the show. Our guest today is a native of Trune, Scotland, a seaside town southwest of Glasgow,

and a father of four. He's tall, and he played centerback for many clubs in Scotland and England, including Wolves and Sheffield United. And then way back in 2016, he made the long voyage across the Atlantic to play for the Tampa Bay Rowdies. And now he's a coach. He's the manager of USL Championship Club,

Sacramento Republic FC, which kicks off its preseason in about a week. Neil Collins, welcome to scuffed. Thanks for having me, Adam. Pleasure to get the chance to speak to you. Before we get into anything else, I want to play a clip for you and see if you recognize it and can explain what happened to any listeners who may not have caught it. It's not from that long ago. It's pretty recent.

I think it's going to be an easy one for you. Here we go. Brighier. Brines Anderson. Still we play on. Here's McLean. He's going to. So easiest pop quiz ever.

What was that? Can you explain what happened there and what the significance of it was? What did it mean to you? Yeah, I mean, obviously, Scotland's last second goal to really seal their World Cup qualification. But for anyone that's seen it, it was more than just a goal. It was an iconic moment. You know, you can hear from the commentary.

I think everyone's hearts were in their mouth. Normally for Scotland, we'd throw it away in those last seconds. instead a moment of magic scoring from the halfway line. I was funny enough watching it in my office here on my own. I mean, I was out my seat. It was just amazing. And that will go down in history of Scotland, Scottish football. Not just for that moment, Scott McTorman's overhead kick.

It was just any football fan that watched that night. It was why we love the game. It was amazing. Yeah. What did your... Your parents live in Florida, right? I think I heard you say that. No, no, my parents spend time in Florida, but they're still in Scotland.

They're still in the West Coast. So they spend most of their time in Scotland, but they do spend a decent amount of time in Florida as well. What did your father think of that moment? I mean, did you talk to him? Yeah, yeah. I was funny enough, I was talking to him during the game, you know, because it was back and forward. And really, for all the times that we've deserved to qualify and not made it, this was maybe one where could easily have went the other way. but we were both just in all of the, just the moments that happened.

It was like we've both supported Scotland together for a long time, been a number of games together. And yeah, it was just, it was just, as I say, legendary moments. Are you going to make it to any of Scotland's games at the World Cup, do you think? I think I'm working hard. You know, the USL have done me a great favour of putting a week-long break when Scotland play Brazil in Miami. So I think I'm going to try and take my son to our best to be there for that.

But I'll be honest, and I'm so excited about the World Cup in general, obviously Scotland being there, but just for this country as a whole, I just think it's going to be fantastic. How? How do you think it's going to be fantastic? Like, what's going to happen? I think for me, I go back to USA-94 World Cup. Yeah.

I was here when everyone thought that would be the kind of change. in US soccer and I think it was probably a big start and I just think the games at a different stage now where the youth soccer movement's unbelievable, everyone's playing

and again I just think it'll be just a great moment for all those kids to have it on their doorstep and I think World Cups can be quite inspirational to young people and I think that's going to have that effect having all these teams right on their doorstep

and again I just think it's a country that is well suited to hosting it, you know, with a great stadiums, and everything that goes along with it. Who needs the bump from a World Cup the most? Is it the, like, the grassroots participation, like the young people who will be inspired by some of it, I think that's fair to say.

Is it the pro teams? Is it, what is it? Like, where's the bump going to come the most? You may be better, at least than me having been here your whole life but from someone

from the outside perspective it's maybe not so much the grassroots actually it might be actually it's a big probably it's a big time

for the national team itself to I think to have that resurgence I know it's been maybe a difficult few years but I actually do think

that the country is producing you know starting to produce more players and they are filtering into Europe and

probably be nice for the national team to take a step forward again. I think it will probably just be multifaceted how it just feeds through the game. And I think, again, for me, people sometimes think the game here is going to accelerate quicker than it has, but I don't think they realize that it's actually been quite a short period of time in the grand scheme of things. And when you look at countries in Europe, it's taken many, many years to get to where they're at. So, yeah, I think, I think, I think it's going to be multifaceted. Okay.

Going back to Scotland for a second, how were kids introduced to the game when you were brought up? And how did that work? I think really straightforward, and I think I notice it even more now, living in the days. But in Scotland,

football is the only real pastime that anyone cares about. It is front and centre of everything in pretty much daily life. So at school, when it's break time, you play football. Your dad, and certainly my dad, took me to watch our local team come out every Saturday once I was about five or six. And then you start playing down the park with your friends, and then you're playing at school, and then you're going with your dad. And then before you know, you're playing for your local team. So it's really, it's just everywhere.

and I took a big interest in it from my dad taking me to watch my local team and I enjoyed playing and then really there's probably very few people that don't play it in some way, shape or form when they're growing up and then obviously

not everyone plays it but it's very difficult to avoid it and as I say I just then started playing with my local team, playing with my school, playing down the park it was as I say when you say play with your school like organized

organized football? Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. So like the equivalent here would be like maybe middle school and again this was when I can start

playing academies were only really starting to around the age of 12, 13 academies were starting to become a little more prominent but really the basis of your football upbringing came with your local team.

You know, so you played with your local team, you played with your school team and then you maybe got invited to tryouts with a professional academy where you'd play once a week but it wasn't like now

where the academy systems developed from nine years old and you're training three or four nights a week I would play with my local team play with my academy team and different weekends and then since then that's obviously grown and awful lot

but a lot of it for me was just playing with my local team and I was very fortunate I'm in my local area within 30 minute radius or 30 mile radius I mean we had a hotbed a hotbed of talent

to try and give you an idea of that I played for Scotland in their 21s with two guys that I went to school with you know so three of us played for Scotland and our 21s from the same school it was a competitive it was a competitive area that I lived in

so just one more thing on that when you say local team are you talking about like a neighborhood team or like what does that exactly mean I'm trying to think like a rec team like a wreck I mean again this is where like obviously now you've got, especially here, you've got all these labels,

wreck and travel and MLS Next Pro and E-CNL. It's just simple. I just played for the team in the town that I was from. So that was like Trin Thistle. So, wherever our population was, let's say it's a couple hundred thousand people

that, you know, the local boys my age and we'd play for that team. And we'd play teams from five minutes away, ten minutes away, up to maybe 25 minutes away max um but as i say it was such a hotbed of talent the level was very

very high and again apologies but so they this this local team uh trun thistle they had like their own facility like their own again uh yeah well my dad fun enough took the team and we had yeah we had their own facility but it wasn't anything fancy probably the level that you've got here we had a couple of eleven aside pitches that we play our home games at. My dad did a good job of, like, sourcing. We played seven aside for a couple of years, which was kind of new, and he sourced

like a couple of good pitches that we could play on, but it was, as I say, it was nothing grand. It was just finding the best that you could and really making the best of it. Okay. So you mentioned Kilmarnock. You started there. I mean, you ended up at that academy,

but correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were released. when you were 14, is that right? Yeah, yeah. How did you respond to that? Possibly the best thing that ever happened to me. And I tried to, you know, I was in the role I'm in now, dealing with parents at times. You know, we all want this nice linear path, but it was devastating at the time.

I was a Camarnot fan. You know, my aim was to play for them. So 14, getting told, no, not quite for us right now. It just inspired me. It inspired me to get better and just try and work on the things that they said I needed to work on about being quicker and just all the developmental things that you kind of go through. And it was the best thing that happened to me, you know, because it really did motivate me. Do you still follow them? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I didn't follow out of love with them because of that. I still follow them. I still used to go and watch them. Obviously becoming more professional career, but I didn't get to watch them as much. but any time, and I've had my boys, my three boys, like we've been to watch them. We were back in Scotland, so they're still my team. Okay, all right.

You played with a lot of different clubs, including Sunderland, Wolves, Leeds United, notably Sheffield United. I'm sure you have like a million stories you could tell about all those years, but I wonder, did you ever get stopped by a fan in public who had an opinion about it? your performance. You know,

you know, you know, I've certainly know that there have been plenty of fans that will have had opinions about my performance, but in public generally, you know, anyone that's ever spoke to me

has always been pretty positive, always pretty, um, cordial, just, you know, never, you know,

never can I think of a moment where someone's been confrontational or tried to be, you always get the odd fan that's a bit braver than another one that might say that you've not been, your best but not too really but certainly i do remember one day at sheffields united there wasn't maybe having the best of times and we hadn't even kicked off it was a warm-up and as i was jogging in i remember one fan was sufficiently letting me know before the game you know what he thought

what he thought of me and i thought we've not even started today but um but no i generally find like a lot you know a lot of football fans when you actually meet face-to-face they're uh there They're positive. And you know, in the heat at the moment, you might have to fear the wrath. I learned a long time ago to not bother with fans, you know, forums online or social media. And thankfully, that wasn't really about when I played. Yeah. That's exhausting for me.

And I don't even play. You know, I mean, I obviously don't play professionally. I play. But, yeah. How did Leeds fans? So maybe you sort of answered the question already, but how did Leeds fans treat you? American, U.S. fans have gotten, I guess, a little bit of an education in Leeds over the last few years. And just the magic of Ellen Road.

I don't know if anybody uses the word magic for it, but it's a pretty cool place to see a goal get scored. How do they treat you there? Yeah, well, just quickly on that, you're right about Ellen Road. You know, when it's full, I had a game where we had to win the last game the season to get promoted from League One, and they'd been there for three or four years, which for a club of league unity that's just not acceptable. and we won with 10 men and I think one of the reasons we did it

was because of the atmosphere and the fans it was one of the best days of my career experience in that and in terms of the fans what I would say is I'm very fortunate to play I've played for some great clubs and I'll probably you know for anyone listening

that supports these other clubs but Leeds was the biggest and you recognise that when you play for them because the fans are everywhere and they follow you everywhere. It's just a huge, huge club. And yeah, amazing fan base. They can

be demanding, but that's part of the reason that makes them great. And, you know, I loved the fact that I got to play for them, and they were great. And I was lucky enough that when I was there, you know, we were generally on the upward cover.

Cool. Let's talk about the Sacramento Republic a little bit. So you just finished your first season. as head coach, and you went to the final of the USL Cup, and then your league season ended November 4th in the playoffs in penalty kicks against Orange County. I know you thought you could go farther.

What do you say to the team after that? Tough. It's tough because I think our expectations, we finished second in our standings, so second seeds, you know, puts you in a really good position, being at home. And I think we felt that we had to be. the experience and the where we fall to

to make a deep run and put ourselves in contention and we didn't so at the end I think I was pretty honest with the team you always want to thank them because the lads that we had last year were fantastic in terms of their attitude their application they were really aware of a pleasure to work

with I enjoyed coming in every day like I felt they were totally bought in but the same token I had to say we've fallen short and I think I know why we've fallen short and it's up to me to address that and the office season, you know, and it's up to the players as well to look at how they can do better for the ones that are coming back. So, yeah, it's tough. It's tough because, you know, again, we're in

professional sport and we get judged by those moments, so we need to do better. But at the same token, it was a good season on so many fronts, but we want to make it better. I saw you talking in another podcast about you need to score more goals. Is that a matter of finding the right players in the off season? Or is that, I mean, how do you do that? How do you score more goals? It's definitely not just down to, you can't always just say it's about the players, right? But I think that's when you come to the end of the season, you do have to look at who are the guys that we think can score goals.

have they scored goals have they got the potential to create and score goals and again this is not just from our forward players like we didn't have I think we only had one centre back score a goal

you know so again like we've got to look through how do we get them scoring from set pieces how do we get our striker score we created more than enough opportunities like our XG was high touches in the opposition box was high

so we look at all these factors but I think right now our focus is on making sure that we think we've got attributes you know so one of the things that I think we lacked at times was ability to go 1 v1 in the final third and actually you know

win those duels and go past players and create chaos that way and I think we do you know maybe need to look at you know the guys that are on the end of these chances and trying to add different attributes

there and then hopefully again and it's putting it all together, you know, putting it all together in terms of getting players in that can have that chemistry and collaboration to work together. So the biggest focus right now at the end of the season is who do we think can help us do that?

And then once we put them together, is, as I say, getting them to work in harmony. Yeah. What do you think of playoffs as a format for deciding? the season. I mean, it's not how they do in Scotland, right? I mean, they have the Cups, of course, but... Yeah, I think it makes sense, I think it makes sense in Europe to do it the way they do it with promotion relegation.

You know, I think if you finish top of the league, it's right that you go up, and maybe if you come down to third, fourth, fifth, six and you have a playoff, I think that adds some of the excitement that we like here. Here, where you don't have that promotion relegation side of things, you know, I think the playoffs makes sense in respect to just create, trying to create the excitement, the entertainment value.

It's definitely tough when you see an eighth seed knock off a one seed in a your knockout game. So that's something that I don't know how you change. I think the MLS have tried to do a different format, but it's ended up but the same results.

You still get the underdogs winning. I think you've got to just accept it for what it is and enjoy it. embrace and try and build a team that can win the regular season because you still want to do that to put yourself in the best position but then be ready for the playoffs and what they bring and I think anyone that fights it you know it is what it is what it is and until promotion relegation comes in

I think the playoff system's exciting exciting for the fans what do you think is going to happen with promotion relegation is it going to come in and I guess is it's is going to be through USL? I do think it will be through the USL based on everything that I'm aware of and everything that they've spoke about I think it will not be without its challenges to get going

but I think it's great from the league's perspective to introduce something to American sport that's going to be different and I think it's great for the USL to kind of have that unique selling point for sports fans to just see you know the drama that it creates

You know, we're used to drama in this country about winning, but the drama of, you know, maybe getting relegated and staying up, it's exciting. As I say, probably the next couple of years, I think we'll get a lot closer to it. And I'm really looking forward to it. It's also a meritocracy, too, you know, which you would think the American public would be really into. Yeah. Like, if you don't do well, you can't just beat last place in the league and get a lottery pick, you know, you got to head on down. I think, and I'm just quickly on that, I think what you'll see as well as a change in styles.

I think what I've noticed in the USL is it's became more competitive. Teams have became more pragmatic. They've definitely become really competitive because coaches are getting more demands on them, and when you bring relegation in, it will definitely become probably a little bit more similar to Europe. What you see is a lot of teams at times,

like with varying styles, depending on what they need to do. Whereas I think maybe previous times where if you finish bottom of the league, who cares, teams still trying to play maybe more attractive soccer. When your job's on the line

and the relegations on the line, it certainly puts a different aspect in. Do you think that's a drawback or you think it's a good thing? You know, at times it maybe not going to be the most entertainment, you know, like I think come the sharp end of the season,

season you'll get entertainment because of what's at stake. Some of the games at times might not be as entertaining, because I think you'll see teams quite happy to play for a point, teams that will be playing, as I say, much more attritional. So there could be an argument made either way. What was your thinking when you left the UK to come to Tampa in 2016? Were you thinking, like, hey, I want to go over there, play a little while and become a coach? Or what, like, what was the, what was in your mind?

I think you learn when you're in professional, sport not to try and think too far ahead but be as best prepared as possible. I definitely wanted a different playing experience, you know, and the fact that it was at Tampa and Florida where I knew relatively well. I just thought that was perfect.

And definitely then with the longer term vision of if I enjoy it, I mean, as a family enjoy it, you know, again, the game's going in a way that there could be opportunities to work in the game and

but again with no preconceived ideas it could have came out and it might not as well and we could have headed back to the UK but just enjoyed every minute of it and then when the opportunity came to obviously retire and become a head coach it was too good to turn down

so it's probably one of the best decisions I've made you already had children when you moved over here right had two had two and my wife was pregnant with twins Okay, wow. Wow. Who made the move, yeah. Can you tell the story?

So we have a mutual friend, Jim Hart. It's been a great, what a great help he's been to me in a lot of different ways. But he told me the story of how you first started, I think how you first started coaching. Can you tell the story? How did you first get involved as a coach? Yeah, I think, again, so trying to always be ahead of the game. When I was playing for Tampa, I just wanted to say, start, you know, coaching.

I wanted to start getting exposed to, like, coaching you've soccer, and I reached out to different people. And funny enough, it was Jim that approached me after a player appearance that I did with his team at one of our games. Jim actually offered his number and said to contact him, because, you know, he's very involved in the coaching scene in Tampa. And he obviously saw something at me that he thought that, you know, we could maybe work together.

and then maybe a few months later he offered me an opportunity to go and help him with his high school and it was the only person really I'd reached out to many different people and I thought being a UAFLA license holder playing for the Tampa Bay Rowdies

I was really eager that I would have had quite a few options but maybe sometimes the coach So you had a UAFA A license at the time? Yeah okay Yeah I did that while I was in the UK playing as I say part of preparation because it's a short career.

You never know when someone might end it for you. So I wanted to do prepare a bit. So I went and I went to the high school with Jim and it was just amazing experience. Largely because Jim, such a good coach, he's such a good leader and so getting to work with him was great. Just getting the, he gave me a lot of autonomy once he realized that, you know, had actually done a bit before.

But it was just a great moment working with great kids. and whether it was high school or youth soccer, it was just the fact that working with people who were passionate about it, working with good people. And yeah, we're still in touch to this day. He's always a great person to speak to and pick their brains. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So, I mean, that level, Carol Wood Day School or any youth soccer

is all about development, obviously, or a lot about development. what's coaching pro soccer all about? Because it's not about that anymore, right? No, there's definitely an aspect of that. I think there's definitely still an aspect of development and we've got three young players that come to mind are part of our first team squad that I need to develop for them to be good enough.

But I think the bottom line is always we've got to win. Every club's different in terms of how much they're expected to win. But that's the kind of bottom. bottom line but within that every club has different expectations and different boxes that you need to tick but I think from a Saturday to Saturday your job's about preparing and leading a team and then getting them ready to try and perform and win it and win a game if you want to break it down and but I think within that you've got to

make people better you've got to inspire people you've got to recruit you know again I think that's another thing you've really got to recruit in an early it's international but it comes back to you're doing all these things to try and get a team on the pitch that can win and that's what we're ultimately judged isn't it in professional sports? Yeah, yeah. I guess I'm curious about the inspiring people part

because how do you, what have you learned about how to do that in your years coaching? How to inspire people who are already quite good at what they're doing, you know? Yeah, and I think you need, you generally do need people that are self-motivation, which you normally have with professional athletes

so you're not you're not talking about dragging them out of bed in the morning but you're talking about self-motivated people but hopefully inspiring them to greater heights I think one of the best things that like I feel that my dad did like people are capable of so much more than they maybe sometimes think you know sometimes you think you did okay

and sometimes it takes someone pushing you for more to really then dig deep and realize that you are capable of more, whether it's to try and prove someone right, prove someone wrong, but just trying to get people to just constantly strive for more. And I think, again, I've seen it with people that they're just capable of so much more than they sometimes think. We're all, we need that person at times to push the right buttons. And it comes in many different ways.

Sometimes it's not even demanding, sometimes it's support, and sometimes it's shown belief in people. as well. And I think that's one of the greatest parts about coaching is, is working with people that are self-motivated and actually just need someone to maybe guide them in the right direction and then be part of that journey. It's one of the greatest things I've enjoyed doing as a coach.

That reminds me. How's Davianne-Kimbrae doing? Davian is a great one. And respect to it right now with him, it is very much about development. As a 15-year-old, you know, what a challenging path he's got in respect to, he's obviously internationally recognised.

He's doing so well for both national teams, Mexico and the US. But to make that jump to our first teams, you know, there's still a wee way to go. So we've got to nurture that and push him at the right times and support him. But last year, the changes he made through the year were, we're exceptional and if he keeps doing that and keeps level-headed he's got a huge future ahead of him okay uh my one of my co-host is african-american and he's he likes to talk about how there is no more african-american name than uh da vian kimbrough and so he's like this guy cannot play for mexico

is a pre it always makes me laugh when he brings it up but anyway um so we're paying attention to you know fans are paying attention to him You were known for being a really vocal player. How do you encourage that in your teams? And also, part B, how do you teach kids to be vocal on the field? Yeah, it's a good question. It's definitely something that's probably just part of society now that's becoming more difficult is the communication.

Again, I think obviously there's loads of different ways to communicate with the players. I mean, our players would tell you there's times I'd definitely. definitely am very straight and very upfront and pretty animated and passionate about how I want to get my point across. There's other times I'll sit and talk and more importantly ask them questions and get them to feedback to me. In terms of how to do it with players, one thing we do try and do with our team a lot is get them into small groups or get them into groups and it's their team as much as it's my team and get them to talk about things that matters. to us as a group and how do they see it and then get them feeding back to the group so just try and put them in situations

where they feel that they can be themselves. I think that's the one thing I really want to try and get with players all the time is allowing them to feel comfortable in the environment that they can be themselves and communicate well

and on the pitch again it's constantly trying to get them all on the same page where they know when someone says something we all know what that means for us and trying to simplify that type of language for them so that

again in the heat of battle we can communicate well but it's definitely a challenge and something that we're always looking for new ways to do. What about young kids? Like, you know, IT, go ahead. Yeah, no, sorry, yeah, young

kids, again, I think um, training, you know, again, in in training, um, not necessarily even during training, like during drills like that, that's got to naturally, but how do you facilitate that?

I think it's in between breaks, is again, getting them to talk to each other. I think one of the best things that good coaches can do is ask the right questions. You know, ask the right questions of their team so that they can then find their voice and have the conference to speak in front of the group and then start putting that information onto the field.

But I've seen it done in a few different ways, but again, I think that the coach has just got to try and facilitate that, and you'll always have some people that will be more naturally want to speak than others. But again, I think it's about just making people comfortable. I think people will speak more and communicate more if they feel that they can be themselves in that environment. All right, I'm going to be thinking about that. Have you been following the U.S. men? And what's your view of how Pachitino is doing in his project?

yeah I've not been following it as closely as I think you'll be far better qualified right but from the little bit I know as he's came through some real challenging challenging moments I think there's been a lot of noise around you know a lot of different things I think probably underachieved in some of the bigger moments

but I think I feel that in the most recent future sorry the most recent past there's been a couple of positive results that I think people are starting to feel that maybe starting to take hold again I think it's just a sign of what Pochitinos went through it's probably a sign of what all these top coaches are going through

in big jobs is the noise is just relentless and the demands are relentless and that's not to say that the demands and expectations are wrong but I just think it's good that he's been given a little bit of time and I think coming through that bad

period and I really hope that the nation get the benefit of that because how many times right now have you seen the first sign of turbulence the coach is out and that we don't learn from those we don't get to the team doesn't get to learn those lessons together

and it's a new coach coming in and you have to go through the process again so I do think in the most recent you know past there's been signs there's been signs that there should be enough positivity heading into the World Cup but it's definitely going to be a lot of pressure. There's no question for the team.

Yeah. Yeah, I think you basically grasp what's going on. So soccer's obviously not number one in America, maybe not even number two, maybe not even number three, depending on how you measure it as a sport. How would you, like, you've been here about a decade now. How do you sort of think about that whole situation?

Is soccer going to become number one? Let me add this. Pachitino was, you know, he's been sort of disappointed in the crowds at some of the games. Disappointed, I think that, you know, we play, say we play Guatemala and St. Louis. Guatemala fills the stadium. Guatemala fans fill the stadium. And this kind of happens everywhere. It kind of doesn't really matter where we play or who we play against.

And then he goes to an Ohio State football game. and like towards the beginning of the college football season and he was just he was gobsmacked you know 100,000 people in there like total totally locked in and he's like why can't we have this in soccer and I don't know what's your answer to that question again I think um coming to the states you know as a European and having some of the questions that I'm sure my issue is having right now but then living here for seven years

And starting to, you know, again, it's like any culture, you've got to open yourself up and see it from their perspective and not try to always compare in terms of this is right and that's wrong. Like, this is the days and part of what makes it great is the demographic that you're talking about. And there's such a melting pot of people from all these different walks of life. And it makes it sense about why, you know, you're saying like Guatemala, because there's probably so many people dotted around the whole US. So when their country comes here, it's just so. such an opportunity for them to do that, whether it's Colombia or Mexico, the same applies. So, you know, that's just part and parcel of being in the melting pot of the States. I think will soccer ever be number one?

Again, it doesn't need to be number one. It just, I think it will be competitive as it continues to grow. And I think there'll be more and more fans grow up. In 20 years' time, you'll have had clubs, MLS clubs that will have been here for first. 40 years and they'll have a tradition and they'll have a history and they'll have generations of people that have followed them and that's how you build it. That's how it's been built in other countries. So I think it's important that for anyone outside of any country is always to just be

open-minded and recognise that every country's got its different cultures and different environments and this is one that's growing and it's going to continue to grow and evolve and adapt and I suspect in 20 years it'll be a may be more similar to what people are used to but still have its own unique things. Going back to pro rel, do you ever nobody important listens to this podcast so you can just say whatever you want.

But do you ever fantasize if, you know, when USL puts pro rel in place, which I put it as a question like who knows, are they going to do it? No, they're going to do it, right? They've said they're going to do it. when they put it in place, do you ever fantasize about, oh, maybe we could overtake MLS? Like, there would be this, you know, MLS with all their billions of dollars and stadiums

and everything, but there's actually like something authentic going on here and then they might turn, turn fans and maybe even turn MLS in a way. Do you ever think about that? I don't think about it as maybe as in depth as that. I think what I'll say is that the USL has been really. very good to me and I've been proud to be part of it as the league's grown. I think the thing that the

USL can do with promotion relegation is really give themselves this unique selling point and possibly grow the league and give us maybe a TV deal that people would be really interested in and actually get eyeballs on it. And I think as

the USL it's so important that we continue not to try and compare ourselves to the MLS. It's like for me the English Championships are a fantastic league. It's the six or seventh most watched league in Europe. It's one of the best supported. But they're not going to compete with it. Of course, you can play your way in there.

We can. That's a key difference. A key difference, yeah. But I think as long as we continue to maximize the potential of the league that we're in, I think we can really have a great place in the landscape here. And as I say, long term, I think it would be fantastic.

if we could join it all together, you know, but I think that's probably a long way, a long way off. Yeah, okay. Your oldest plays in the Sacramento Academy, right? Is that right? Yeah. Okay. So how he's mostly done his soccer development in America?

I mean, I guess he was like, what, six or seven when you moved here? That's correct, yeah. How do you, like, do you think, like, what perspective does that give you on development here. Like, has it been good? Have you had to, like, step in and sort of manage it really carefully? Tell us whatever you want about that. No, I was really fortunate. I was really fortunate that I was able to play quite a significant role when he was like 7, 8, 9, 10, where I was able to coach the team a lot that he played with alongside, you know, the other, the other coaches. And this, this would have been in Tampa? This was in, yeah, this was in, like, Wood Ranch, like,

in between Sarasota and Bradenton and took so much satisfaction my dad got to do that for me and I felt that it was you know if I was going to go and be watching I'm training I may as well offer the opportunity to help out

so it was really really good and I think for that age group from the 8, 9 10, 11 it was just a great young environment I think compared to the UK for example I think he was as well off as if not better off in terms of

especially the weather in Florida. I've been able to play 12 months of the year. By and large, the tournament. The tournaments, for example, where you're just great competition, great fun, I think great experiences. What I would say is definitely around when we went back to the UK, around 12.30

and it was probably getting to the point where I was starting to get a little concerned with. You know, he was in a team that was very dominant. How are we going to get better competition? and I do think, like I talked about my own kind of development and been able to play against the best or really test yourself most weeks is important and not at all costs,

but I think you're starting to get to that age when you do. You don't want to be beating team 6-0 every week. And then when he went back to the UK, he played for the Barnesy Academy, and that was like super competitive and you're only travelling 30 minutes an hour to play against top top of, position, but that's just the size of the country.

Adam, that's nothing to do with, you know, that's just one of the logistical factors. Yeah. Yeah, I wince because it is like, it's such a, it's such a difficult thing that we have to face in this country, you know, that it is such a big country, and you can't be like that.

It is, and, again, it's something that I just have had to learn about. And now we're back, and he's playing in, you know, he's playing for our academy, and it's a very good level and it's very competitive. But again, it's just it's just a distance and the commitment because of the size

of the country and how far people travel and how difficult it is. I think that's something that could be improved over time, but again, I can see it from all eyes that the academy system is going to

help produce more and more players longer term. The country will start to keep. And I think they're only scratching the surface right now, but it will continue to get better. I mean, isn't there a connection between if USL gets that TV deal that, then there will be like a sustainable promotion relegation pyramid? And then maybe there, maybe, I mean, it's not going to happen in my lifetime or yours. We're about the same age.

But maybe eventually you can get to the point in America where you can go find good competition within 30 minutes for a talented 12, 13 year old soccer player. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I do. I honestly think you could probably do it right now if people could get out of their own way. And like, again, when I, like,

look at when I grew up, we played in, what, there was one league, you know? There wasn't this league here that some teams went into and then there was another league. You know, so, and again, we've been too, get into two medial you're probably driving past an

E-CNL team to play a team that's in MLS Next Pro but really you should be playing that ECNL team but for whatever politics or whatever reason they're in that league and we're in this league you are probably missing out on some basic things like that from time to time but

I say that would be a long podcast to even go into that yeah it's a big subject what's the biggest gap between young American players and sort of like their Scottish counterpart by the time they're 12, 13. Is there a gap even? No, no, I don't think at that age, I really, really don't think that at age there's a huge gap.

Okay, what about at 18? I think at 18, I think at 18, again, to just give you, try and give you a little bit. Again, insight, if I look at what I was seen when I was in England, is, again, I'll talk about Yorkshire, for example, because that's where I was based. So Yorkshire, within an hour already, you've got Leeds United, Sheffey's Wednesday, Barnsley, Doncaster, Rotherham, Huddersfield, all with their own academies.

There's six or seven top, like, clubs, and those academies can play each other. So, like, a Wednesday night, some of those academies would come down and play each other, and it might be 3V3, 7s, they're competing against each other, and I think, like, iron sharpens iron. So I just think they're getting exposed to so much of that,

so regularly and I think again here I've just been back from the MLS next tournament in Arizona which was a fantastic tournament but again I don't think there's enough competition like teams are flying

there and spending six days there but there's still too many games that I just don't I don't think you've got the best against the best regularly enough and I think that's probably one of the small details that could could improve I just feel again

I just look at our own academy and we're constantly looking at with our academy director is how do we push our better players how do we push our better players so that we're testing them because you know what it's like the minute you become into a first team environment

or you start moving up the ladder you're going to get punched in the face a few times you don't want them to just go through their whole youth career experience and success you need to test them Yeah. Well, you have that option, right? I mean, you can just bring a academy player up into first team training, watch them get punched in the face, you know? And that's where it's been great over the last month or two. I've been able to spend time with the academy teams and coaching them. And I want them to know that when they come up, they know me. They know the expectations, you know, so that when they come up, they're comfortable.

And they don't need to be perfect at the first, second, third time. But just so that we can try and. make that integration even more comfortable for them because that's one of the reasons I wanted to come here was the fact that the academy system's in place. You know, it's been so good watching like Blake Willie. You know, that last year, 17-year-old started about 25 games for us and just did a great job and I'm looking forward to seeing how he just progresses. One more sort of big development question. Does the US college system help or hurt player development?

I know I'm making it a binary thing It's not probably No I know what you're saying I think I think really to be honest When you're talking about the difference That's the biggest difference in Europe From 16 you go into a professional environment

Where your soul focuses on Becoming a professional The college environment I don't think is the best Way to become a professional But what I think it does do is It develops really well-rounded human beings And gives them the opportunity

to still pursue professional sport but also gives them a real backup plan. So I do think there's a great place for college and I think it's, you just got to recognise, but I think if we're talking about developing the most professional players that we can, then the way it's going with like MLS clubs

that there probably are going to start producing. But I wouldn't write off the college game at all. I think especially 10 years ago, that is where you were getting your best players. But as the games evolved, you're just missing so much time and you're only playing a three-month season you know you're just missing out

they're trying to change it I mean there's some talk of changing I'm sure you're aware of that but it's too many PDFs for me to read through all of that you know yeah um you know again with

going back to Jim Hart the something that I've really enjoyed learning from him is this idea that high school soccer can really fill a need in American culture because it is, um, it's a place where rivalries sort of thrive and people like love playing in front of

their classmates and their friends. And, um, what do you think about that? Maybe putting, I know you've been a supporter of the high school champions league, but what do you think about that? Like putting more emphasis on that because it is, it is free.

It is largely local. Um, you know, how does that fit into the whole system? I totally agree. I totally agree with Jen. and in respect to, I think all these things have got a place in a player's development and career.

And you speak to players, there's something, there's just something different about playing with your school, the people that come to watch you, the environment, it's playing against another school. Again, I'm all for it in the right, you know, the right time.

And it's just, there's not one way. There's not one size fits off. I think if we could just all admit that and, you know, then we'd all be better for it and I don't think that we need to compete all the time. I think that's one of the things that we all love soccer. High school coaches love it.

The players love it. The youth teams love it. Like, you know, it doesn't need to be a battle. We can be together and kids can still play at high level but enjoy playing with their school team. Yeah. I had some great battles

with my school against another school and Chris Boyd ended up in the, he's ended up in the all-time Scottish Premier League goal scorer. You know, so that was a great moment for for me as, you know, doing that. So,

again. So that would be like you would play with your local team, but you'd also play with your school team and the school team was like a lower level than the local team generally? Yeah, generally. Yeah, I would say so because I had maybe five or six players at my school that I played with.

in my local team but also you'd be you'd be supplemented by other guys at the school that would play and not maybe as seriously you'd play other schools who would be

littered with some players that we'd play with the local teams but you know again like our school district that we played in was so competitive and you'd play after school

and it wouldn't really impact you know anything else you were doing right yeah I love that I love that You know, I know the landscape's changed, but again, I just think it's like, you hear a lot of negative things, but I think sometimes you just need to just accept it for what it is and let the kids enjoy, let the kids enjoy, enjoy playing with their school, their schoolmates. Yeah.

I mean, it sounds like the local, that local team component is the part that's missing in America. I mean, there's a lot missing. There's like, you know, the national obsession with the sport is also missing too. but yeah well um thank you so much for doing this i really appreciate it anything you wish i had asked you no no listen i really enjoyed it i can see your passion for the game and it's always nice to talk to someone that's uh you know takes such a keen interest in it so thanks for having me on adam yeah thank you thank you for making it work and thanks everybody for listening we'll see you