Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - #710: New Jersey's governor on the World Cup, the final, prices

Episode Date: July 17, 2026

New Jersey Gov. Mikie Sherrill sits down with Sanjay Sujanthakumar to talk about the impact of the World Cup, the final in East Rutherford on Sunday, prices, FIFA, etc. Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedCheck out our store, where you can get Scuffed hats and sweatshirts and other stuff: scuffedpodcast.com/storeAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedpodcast.com/store  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuff podcast when we talk about U.S. soccer. Welcome to the scuffed podcast. Sanjay here and I'm joined by the 57th governor of the great state of New Jersey. Mikey Sherald, Governor Charlotte, thanks for coming on the pod. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited. So this is a U.S. soccer podcast, so a lot of our time and energy has been focused on the U.S. team and what's happening on the West Coast. That's where they were for their run. New Jersey was in the news quite a bit in the build-up to the tournament. But tell us how things have been going here during the tournament since it started.

It's really been amazing. I often say we have the world here in New Jersey. We have people from every single corner of the world in this small state. We're packed together, the most densely populated state. So to welcome the FIFA World Cup has been incredibly exciting. I've heard people describe it as it's like when your cousins come over and your mom let you stay up late. Like we've opened the bars and restaurants up late. We've had fan zones, 34 of them, across the state. Everybody has been thrilled and what's also been so cool is to have

visitors from all over the world come and be so delighted with New Jersey. They love Wawa, they love our delis, they, you know, all the videos we've had Norwegians rowing across the state. It has truly been an amazing experience. Is the final in New Jersey, New York, New York, New Jersey, just New Jersey. What's the verdict on this? Well, I would just suggest people look on a map. It is squarely in New Jersey in East Rutherford and we are so proud to host it. So you came into office six months ago. How much of your time has been focused on this event? Biggest World Cup ever, biggest sporting event ever? I mean it's really I think hard for Americans to

maybe comprehend because we are growing as a soccer nation and certainly New Jersey's central to that but generally I think understanding that one is and three people in the world will be tuned into the World Cup final here in New Jersey. It's just hard to comprehend. It brings people together like no other event that I know of. And so we're, like I said, we're thrilled. When I got into office on day one, it was set up a little bit differently. And what we did was open up the fan zones, like I said, 34 across the state because what I wanted was really twofold. I wanted to make sure that our business Businesses had economic opportunities.

If you're hosting an event like this, you want to make sure there's an economic benefit to the state. And I wanted to make sure everyone in New Jersey had access to this. And let's face it, not everyone's going to get a ticket to the World Cup. But every single person can go out on the street, can go out in a fan zone, can go to a park where they're hosting events and join up with other fans and really enjoy the moment. I was at Ferry Street just down the road here in Newark. We had a wonderful event.

was down at the Camden fan zone because remember Philly at the bottom of our state is hosting, was hosting some World Cup events as well. So the entire state was involved and it was a great feeling. Yeah, so we'll get into the costs and the planning and all that in a bit. But a big topic ahead of the tournament was what would the benefit be for New Jersey and for all the cities that are hosting the World Cup? It sounds like you think it's been worth it? Would you say it's been worth it or is it too soon to tell? What do you think? You know, when I got in, I was skeptical. We had spent quite a bit of money, and my focus was recouping that investment.

Now, we don't have the numbers yet, and it's going to be hard to maybe get every single dollar back. Although, believe me, I am working on it. At every turn, I'm taking a, you know, I'm in a little bit of a scuffle, if you will, over selling the grass at the stadium, which we help pay for. But nevertheless, as I'm working to get every dollar back here into the state, there's also another benefit, and that is, I think, really, the tourism and the business development that we're doing as everyone comes to New Jersey and sees what a fantastic state it is. And so we've had so many tourists come through for the World Cup saying they're going to come back, that they want to come back down the shore and spend vacations here, which we're really open to that, as you know, like I said, we're a very diverse state, so we welcome people from around the world here. And then part of what I really use this for is to meet with, you know, a bunch of CEOs,

a bunch of ambassadors, consul generals, heads of state come to the World Cup. So to really discuss with them the business opportunities here in New Jersey. So we are using it here as an opportunity to create a lot of economic growth, that it will take time to see if those numbers hit. Could you give us an idea of how much time before you can really? fairly measured? Well, in the near term, you know, in the next couple months, we'll be getting some of the receipts in on different, you know, measures we use with credit card companies. We've already seen a huge upticket, Airbnb and VRBO. We're looking at some of the hotel

numbers and some of what we'll see with the revenue reporting from restaurants and bars will be interesting, you know. So we're tracking all of that. We don't have those numbers, and those will be a couple months down the road. There's different reporting dates that we'll have for those. And then as far as the business development, these were sort of like a beginning of a relationship. So being at the World Cup, hitting up the Consul General for meetings and saying, look, you know, you guys do a lot of pharmaceutical investment. We have a lot of that here.

Love to meet in another month and sit down after the World Cup's over. So that will be, you know, that's our long-term goal is to develop the economy here. Gotcha. So how would you describe the cooperation with the federal government? government leading up to and during the tournament with the Trump administration with Andrew Giuliani and the task force in terms of executing this. How would you say that's gone? We've worked incredibly hard and to secure the area.

I would say that we have long-term partnerships with the federal government that we've worked closely to secure this area for multiple different events and multiple occasions. Ever since 9-11, we've probably had one of the best state police forces in the nation. able to do a lot of this really high-end security work. We have what we call the Rock, which is where we got a lot of intelligence in. We, you know, we really, I think part of the reason the World Cup was located here is because we really operated a much higher level than most areas, because we have to. We have had a history of terrorism in the area with 9-11. We certainly have targets here that we're constantly protecting, and we do it very, very well.

So we've worked very well with the federal agencies to secure the World Cup site, and I think we've seen that as we've gone through the different games and how secure they've been. So let's talk about the costs a bit. The Stranet and NJ Transit due to the World Cup has been well documented. There's obviously less parking space at the stadium because of the security perimeter, right? So there's a bus service to help, but the cost of train tickets in a stadium got a lot of attention, to the tournament, you made a decision to shift roughly 50 million in costs from taxpayers to ticket holders, right? Could you tell us about what led to that decision and that dialogue

with the outgoing administration, which is of the same party, obviously? I came into office and I just started looking at the books because, again, my number one concern here was to really make sure this was a benefit to our state. And the math wasn't adding up in some areas, especially in transportation. And I, you know, I don't think there had been a real plan as to how we were going to pay to move people. And I said, well, we have a contract with FIFA that says, we'll do this at cost. How much is the cost? And it turns out it was $150 per person. So I said, well, that is just not going to be born by the taxpayers of New Jersey. And so we got to work.

And I really thought this would have been a great opportunity for FIFA to kind of partner with us on how to do this because they're making $11 billion. They have sponsors from all over the world. This would have been a great opportunity for a partnership here. Unfortunately, you know, I think FIFA's left a lot of opportunity on the table. And I'll explain what I mean by that in a second. But as far as transportation, they were unwilling to pay. And again, $11 billion. I've heard they're selling some tickets to this final for a million dollars each.

and continue to prioritize making money over, I think, really investing in soccer and the sport itself. So with that in mind, we went to many of our corporate sponsors. We got those tickets under $100, and I think most people are feeling that this has been a real bright spot in New Jersey transit. I think getting in and out of the stadium has been really easy. In fact, we're clearing the stadium parking lot faster than at Giants and Jets games now. So I really have to hand it to my Department of Transportation and New Jersey Transit. They've been working around the clock. And notably through various weather events that have taken down rail systems throughout our state,

they have kept this running and gotten people in and out of that stadium remarkably well, and I'm really proud of them. Yeah, could you elaborate on what FISA is leaving on the table in terms of? So I, you know, for a nonprofit, and I, you know, I'd have to understand that a little better. how you make $11 billion there, but they really haven't invested in U.S. soccer in the way I think they could have. I mean, imagine if FIFA came in here and had these games across the country as they do and then started building soccer pitches and branding them as FIFA soccer pitches and growing soccer, maybe having some events where they have some, you know, some of the coaches come out

and, you know, the FIFA World Cup coaches come out maybe after they're out of the groups, just to meet with little league teams and stuff like that. Because it would not only, I think, just grow the love of the game here, which I know these games will do. I mean, we saw in 94 when we hosted a whole generation of soccer players. And I know now we're even at a different level. So unlike 94, now every little kid basically plays soccer. I have four of them.

They don't stay in soccer because the training programs just aren't as strong as they might be in Europe. three of my four kids went on to other sports, only one is kind of going through with soccer. I think this will kind of grow that passion in some of those training programs. But imagine if FIFA had really put their back into that effort, I think it would have paid them dividends down the road because this is also just a huge market. And so I think not only are they sort of leave, when I say they're leaving an opportunity on the table, I mean financial as well. Growing the U.S. market would be in their economic benefits.

but instead I think they chose just real short-term lining their pockets as opposed to really putting their back into that. Yeah, attendance for the games has been fantastic. So, you know, a lot of people are saying FIFA was proven right in a way. Was part of the thought process with the NJ transit tickets, was that also thinking people who can afford to go to these games can afford this ticket anyway? Does that make sense? Well, certainly. I think, you know, you're like part of the reason we were really developing,

these fan zones is because so few people were actually going to have an opportunity. We had about a thousand free tickets that we were able to have sponsors provide. We've tried to open the games up. But at the end of the day, there are only so many tickets, and many of them are being sold for an extremely high cost. So yes, I mean, thinking that you're going to tell the people of New Jersey, hey, you have to pay for these people, they're buying a million dollar ticket to go to FIFA, but you're going to have to spend money to pay to you.

to move them back and forth just didn't make sense. Were you concerned about empty seats at all going into the tournament? A lot of people were because of the prices of tickets. I never was. I mean, this is, you know, we have Soccer Town USA right here in Kearney, New Jersey. Like, there was no world where we weren't going to have our stadium full. And I say that too because not only do we have a passion for soccer here in New Jersey. this is one of the key states to growing U.S. soccer.

We have two members of the World Cup team from New Jersey. And I think the only member that's actually been wholly homegrown in, I think, went through the Philly program and stuff. So that's kind of a new thing, too, for playing at this level. But nevertheless, I think also we have people from all over the world here. So every team that's playing in the World Cup, from anywhere in the war. Maybe Cape Verdi, we don't have a huge population or curse out.

But nevertheless, I mean, just about every game, you have a diaspora here that is going to support that team. So there was probably a world where maybe, you know, if it got near the end of a certain game, you might have to sell tickets a little lower cost. But there was no world, I thought, where the stadium wouldn't be full. Is there a breakdown available? Do you all have data on the percentage of people from this state or this area versus tourists? Because obviously a lot of people are coming as tourists. I don't have that, and I can ask about that, but I'll tell you it's, you can kind of tell.

So some of our big populations are from South America, and so when you go to a Brazil game, a lot of the Brazilian fans are from New Jersey. When you go, you know, Ecuador, we have a big population here. The Norwegian team seemed to be remarkably all from Norway. You know, I would go and I'd go to the Facebook. fan zones to talk to people, welcome them to New Jersey, and they, you know, they, they seem to all, but it's not a huge country. I felt like the whole country was in the parking lot of MetLife Stadium for the Norway game. So, you could get a different sense of it when you were

interacting with the fans for each game. So looking ahead, so we talked about, you know, what you learned about hosting this tournament. The 231 Women's World Cup is expected to be here, but that hasn't been confirmed yet. Part of the reason is how host cities want better terms, right, than this time. What can you tell us about the conversations that are happening looking ahead and how do you think that could play out? I think it's really interesting to discuss what host cities can demand because I think historically FIFA said, you know, who's, you know, we'll go to the highest bidder, what are you going to do for us? And I think what we've seen here is FIFA's realized that hosting events

in the United States is very lucrative for them. And so I think there is some more leverage here for what's in it for us as a city, because I think there should be a more even relationship. Again, if you are coming into to do these World Cup games, there should be an economic benefit to the town that's hosting. And so I think this, I think the United States is the perfect place to host the Women's World Cup. I just, I'm not sure there's a place in the world.

that is more intense about women's sports right now than the United States. I always think we're a little bit ahead of the curve on women's sports, and you see that not just in soccer, but in basketball, et cetera, ice hockey, you saw the Olympics. So I really feel like we are really ahead of the curve. So this is where people like to watch women's sports. This is where I think you can do really well with the Women's World Cup. We've always, you know, the U.S. women's team is the most successful women's sports.

World Cup team ever. So I think with that, this is a great place to host it so town should say, okay, you want access to this market, then let's form a partnership. Let's come together and figure that out. We are looking now at, as we talked about it, all the economic benefits and what we can do to develop revenue and if it makes sense for us as a fan of women's soccer and having a daughter who, you know, is playing at a fairly high level. I would love to host the Women's World Cup, but not at the expense of the people of New Jersey. So we'll get to your relationship with the game in a second. But one last question about this whole hosting dynamic.

Do you think more people will echo now people like U.Ram Manuel, the way he talked about, you know, not wanting it for Chicago because of the terms, do you think being in this market, you can go? into the next negotiation with that much more leverage saying you know we know you're gonna want to bring it here anyway we want to avoid this kind of change of plans that happen with you and the outgoing administration this is what we want moving forward sure and because I'm at the very beginning of my administration it's likely that you know any negotiations we would have going

forward on some of these world events I would still be governor so that provides some continuity and at the same time we have one of the biggest stadiums in the United States with more boxes than just about anywhere, if not anywhere, in the United States. So it's really, if you can fill it the most lucrative stadium to have an event at, which is, I think, something that, as we've discussed, FISA's very interested in. So certainly I think that is something that we will have to say, you know, I think you want access to this.

You were very successful here. We run an incredibly good operation with security and transit. I think with more preparation, we could do even better. So let's partner on that. Let's figure out the path forward that's going to create success for everyone. So switching gears a bit. Tell us about your relationship with the sport, how you experienced it in the past. I know you said you played rec soccer right a long time ago.

And tell us about your family as well, how they're attached to the beautiful game. Certainly. So my daughter is 14 and is a very good athlete. She has not met a sport. she doesn't like, but her passion is soccer, and she's very good at it. And we have this picture of my first soccer team. It's online. It was with the St. Gabriel's Angels. It was in about the fourth grade. My dad made me play. I did not really want to at that time. And my daughter and I have examined this picture because it cracks us up. Like the two of us have looked at this picture far too long,

because I'm standing there, just kind of slumping there, and I'm wearing an oxford and jeans, and my soccer jersey over that, unless you think, oh, this must just have been like a picture they took, not an actual practice. I don't know. My friend Kathy is in full, like, workout gear. Of course, my friend, Laura is even worse. She has her sucker jersey tucked into her jeans with a belt on. So we, like, look at this picture, and then there's these dads.

This was sort of the late 70s. So there's these dads and turtlenecks and cardigans that don't look incredibly athletic. And we look at this picture and we're just cracking up. I'm like, you know, Mayor, I just, I never had a chance, hon. Like, I never had a shot. I never had a shot. But I did. I grew to love the game.

And what I think is so neat about it is looking at my mom. You know, my mom, I think, played kickball at recess. There were just no organized women's sports in her area. when she was little. And then I played soccer, but it was always sort of a second-class effort to the boys' soccer teams. They always played on the better fields and had the better coaches and had better pathways to success. And then I saw my kids and I have four kids, two boys and two girls, and they played in the same soccer league. And the coaches that coached my boys were the same exact coaches that coached my girls. And they were on the same exacted

fields. I mean, it was just such a nice evolution to see how women's sports has really taken a seat at the table. And I think it has brought so many more people to watch these sports. I tell people, I grew up watching football, and I didn't like it. Because I was watching football, I was always waiting for my dad to get off the couch and drive me to my friend's house or drive me to the mall or drive me somewhere, and there were always three minutes left in the game. And anybody who knows American football knows that means like at least a half hour. It's a long time, right? But I don't think I clocked that, right?

So my dad would always be like, it's just three minutes. And I'd be like, okay, dad, come on, just three minutes, just two minutes, you know, and half an hour later I finally got to go. And it wasn't until I watched like Mia Ham play that I suddenly understood that visceral feeling you get, even if you don't play at a high level, if you play to sport and you watch someone else playing it, you can feel it. You feel how it is to dribble past someone or to shoot a good goal. You just, it's a different, different experience. And so bringing everyone into this game creates such a sense of unity and it's great now that I love that the U.S. team is the U.S.

team. It's not the U.S. men's team and the U.S. women's team. They have banded together to negotiate and they are one team. I think that's so cool. I think this sport, it has come of age at just the right time for it to feel like there's, you know, that women and men are such a big part of U.S. soccer, and I love it. Yeah, you mentioned unity there. What do you think this World Cup has meant for the state and the country as a whole, especially when the U.S. was alive, obviously there was a great energy. But yeah, overall, what do you think this has meant? Because there was obviously a lot of talk about maybe negative things in the news and

the build up to the tournament. But what's your assessment of it before the big game, of course? So if I had been negotiating for the World Cup, I might have put a little effort into trying to get a U.S. game here at that life state. That was the only thing lacking here in New Jersey. But nevertheless, it was, it has been. an incredible experience. There is nothing right now like it that brings people together.

I was just speaking to a neighbor of mine who said, you know what I love about the World Cup? There's no but. So it seems like everything nowadays, we're so divided over everything that you can say, you know, oh, this was great, but I feel bad for these people. Or this was good, but I understand that somebody doesn't like it. There's always an exception.

With the World Cup, everyone just feels like, I love it, period. No exceptions, no nothing. You can root for whoever you want. It's just fun. It's enjoyable. It's bringing us together. Going out to the fan zones is really great to see the community out and together with each other. I was talking to somebody who said on her street in Hoboken.

They were broadcasting it on the side of a building and everyone just came out in the street and watched the game. So it has brought people together like nothing else in recent times. It's just kind of blown through any divisions we have. And I think it's also reminded us of how great it is to be part of this world community, to have these world teams that we're hosting come here, and to engage with them and see them compete. And it's really been an incredible experience. And again, to think that one in three people in the entire world will be watching that final, there's nothing like it.

There's nothing else like it. So a lot of us in the U.S. soccer community are wondering how we're going to capitalize on this momentum in terms of growing the sport long term. And we talked a little bit there about participation in the sport. One thing that's coming up a lot is thinking about the subsidization of the sport and how the U.S. can catch up on the men's side can catch up to the best teams in the world. Do you think soccer is well positioned to get more resources from the government at the state and local level as it gets more popular? at the youth level. What do you think? Given that so many of the sports here in the United States don't get a lot of subsidies,

and soccer feels like something that can make so much money standing on its own, it's hard to think that you're going to get too much in the way of subsidies. I just realistically right now with the different budgets we're looking at at the federal level. That said, it's a very interesting thing to think of how you might create the training systems here that you have overseas otherwise. Like how can you, through sponsorships and other things, create some of those pathways because I'll just give you an example.

My son plays lacrosse. And so Nike sponsors a lot of these high-level tournaments. and then you have a lot of different training that goes on through different sponsorships and stuff like that. And I think the reason we saw the Men's World Cup team doing so well is because many of them had played overseas and had been in other training programs. So if we really are going to go to that next level, it feels like with the 94 World Cup, we got to this level, meaning everybody's aware of soccer, everybody's played soccer. it's much more embedded in our culture than it ever was.

But if we're actually going to go to that next level, you're right. Thinking of those training pathways and how we might replicate what goes on in Europe is the next step, that's hard to see the federal government subsidizing it, but I could be wrong. Yeah, that's the dilemma, right? Because you referenced that pay-to-play model, right, and the way the youth soccer economy is here. and now we're all trying to reverse it and get more support from the government, not at the federal level, even the state and local level. But at all levels, obviously, you know, resources are limited.

It's tough fiscally. But I think at the state level, it's really interesting as governor because I'm really concerned. You know, this goes into a whole other area I won't veer into on this podcast, but we do have a whole agenda for kids online safety and mental health. And I think sports are such a piece of that of getting kids off their phone. and socialized and engaged in their community. And you're exactly right. So this is separate from how you're going to create a high-end European pipeline for World Cup soccer.

This is simply how are you going to give everyone a shot at playing sports? It's child care too. And child care, which is something I think governments are very interested in. Certainly I'm very interested in because I know right now it's the – so I've told you the good news. about women in sports, the bad news about sports right now is how it's becoming more and more pay to play, where there's becoming more and more of a have-and-have-and-have-nots. Either you can, you know, it used to be you kind of played on your rec league, you played in high school, and then maybe you'd play D-1 in college if you were really good. Now it's hard to see somebody

through that pathway. You've got to be a really exceptional, exceptional athlete to go that route. Many of our athletes are now coming from very expensive programs that they start when they're very, very young. So I think to get sports and rec leagues to more schools and more kids, that's something I think you could see more government funding for. Yeah, it's probably a different podcast, the private equity in New Sports and the impact, right? Yes, I could go on, especially in lacrosse. So yes. Last one, I appreciate your time. Tell us about what your plans are for Sunday. What's this weekend looking like for you?

Well, as far as I can tell, I'm going to be spending 1,000 hours at my life stadium. So I'm going to go early, make sure everything's set up, go to some fan zones, thanks, some workers, do a little bit of press, and then go into the stadium, meet with some, as I said, some business people to try to remind them how great this experience has been and shouldn't they invest in New Jersey, congratulate some people. And hopefully at some point get to watch, I usually get to watch at least a good quarter of the game. Hopefully a little more for that final. Are you going to have any time to meet with the president or the president of FIFA, Mr. Infantino? You know, I'm not sure. I don't know that I will.

Okay. Thank you so much for coming on the pod. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thanks again. This has been great. Best Soccer State in America, Governor, Mikey Cheryl. Thank you. I love it. Thank you.