Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - Episode 101: Projecting the Nations League roster, and an interview with Orange County SC GM Oliver Wyss

Episode Date: October 1, 2019

Quick rundown of Gregg Berhalter's likely roster choices for the upcoming Nations League fixtures against Cuba and Canada, and then an interview with Oliver Wyss, the general manager of Orange County SC, the USL club that has given 11 starts to a 17-year-old youth national team keeper, recently signed Bryang Kayo and Diego Lopez away from MLS academies, and is trying to establish an alternative pathway to Europe for promising young American players.0:30 - Greg and Belz USMNT roster discussion23:00 - Interview with Oliver Wyss, general manager of Orange County SC  Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the scuffed podcast. I'm Adam Bells in Minneapolis. With me is Greg Velasquez in Des Moines. We talk about U.S. men's soccer. Hey, everyone. We have a two-part episode today. First, Greg and I are going to discuss the upcoming Nations League roster set for announcement on Wednesday. And then we'll have a quick conversation with the general manager of Orange County, SC Oliver Whist, about their recent signings of young Americans, Brian Keo, and Diego Lopez and the USL Development Pathway in general, among other things. So hold on for that. But first, Greg, how are you? I'm stressed, bells. I'm stressed because I don't know whether it be more stressed about Sergenio Desd's decision or Christian Poulosix playing time. I think you should be more stressed about Sergino Dest's decision. Shouldn't you?

All right. I think, I'm not terribly stressed about it either. In terms of impact, in terms of impact for the national team, I think, I'm preaching the choir here. Whether Poulosik plays for Chelsea or not doesn't affect how effective he can be against Cocker-Calf opposition. If we don't get Dest, then we're kind of back to square one at left back. Yeah, yeah, you're totally right. Desk leaving, obviously, would be devastating for our left-back propositions over the next decade.

Christian Pulisic not playing for Chelsea doesn't affect our winger propositions too much at all. No, I don't think so. Before we move into the roster for the Nation's League, fixtures that are coming up in a couple of weeks, I want to thank all our Patrione supporters, Patreon supporters. Muches gracias. Today is the last day on Patreon to vote in the scuffed player pool index. If you're on there, you know what I'm talking about. And we will discuss the results of that on the pod soon.

Don't worry, it's not just going to disappear into the ether. Thanks to everyone who has contributed already. Let's get into the roster. All right, let's do it. We face the eternal question today as we talk about this. should we reach for the pie in the sky or should we sit down and eat the pie that Greg Burrhalter is likely to serve us? Well, I think everyone's sort of already familiar with our flying pie preferences here at scuffed headquarters. So maybe we, this go around, we talk about Burrhalter's flightless pies instead.

Yeah, grounded pie, earthbound pie. So the big news will be whether Dest is on the roster, light a candle for that, I guess. Personally, I think there are compelling arguments on both sides, but personally, I'm not Serginio Dest. Ah, Skypie for life. Mr. Dest, if you accept to call up fresh from the scuffed bakery and confection center. All right. On the negative side, injuries make Tim Wea and Tyler Adams almost certain scratches. Is that about right?

Yes, there's no chance. No chance those guys are on the list. And then we have John Brooks and Matt Mioska inactive again over the weekend. and so probably going to be scratches. Yeah, D'Andre Edlin came back, actually got off the bench for Newcastle for the first time all season after the injury that ruled him out all summer as well.

Alfredo Morales and maybe a little lower on the depth chart, Jonathan Amon also missed with injury over the weekend. Yeah, Jonathan Amin is some premium skyby. You know, Yedlin seems the most likely from that group to get a call up, but I would still think the safe bet is Cannon and Lima available and not rushing DeAndre back? Yeah, every MLS guy should be available for this window. So I agree.

I don't think there's any reason to accelerate Yedlin's return from his injury. And we face Cuba on the 11th and then Canada in Toronto on the 15th. You want to split these two games up in the way we discuss the roster, right? Yeah, I think that's, and I also think that's probably how Burrhalter will do it. We've seen him before. He makes, in a lot of these windows with multiple games, he makes a lot of changes from game one to game two. Sometimes those changes are sort of enforced with players leaving. But other times it's just been his decision.

And I think especially given the vast difference in quality between the two sides, I think we see something similar. Okay. So we're going to talk about, as we go through the roster, we're going to talk about who we want to start in each game. Is that fair? Yeah, who we expect, I think. Halter and I'm sure who we expect is also, uh, continues to be sort of informed by who we very desperately want to see. Yeah.

We're marrying what seems realistic with what we hope for and, you know, that's always a messy. That's always a messy business. All right. For, start with four words. Who would you like to see? All right. So I would like to see Josh Sargent start against Cuba and get, get 75, 80 minutes in that game.

the competition is not such that even that seems like a cop out Josh Sargent is our second best forward we should play him we should start him in one of these games in this window the Burrhalter hedge is that you know we still might see Jazi's artists but I'm hoping to see Sargent against Cuba Altador started against Canada because I'm expecting Burrhalter to field sort of his preferred best 11 against Canada and maybe experiment a little bit around the edges against Cuba So I'm hoping that Burrhalter is comfortable enough with Sergeant to experiment with him in the Cuba game. Yeah, I mean, that sounds great to me. I'm hopeful that we'll see Sergeant and Altador in the camp and not Zardis,

but you cannot count on Burrhalter not to sneak Zardis into this lineup. I think he gets into camp, which I'm fine with. I think he'll call more than 23 guys for these two games. but again just really hopeful that sergeant gets the minutes. That would be pretty bad if he doesn't get to start against Cuba, especially, you know, he played pretty well over the weekend. He got an assist, went up and won a ball in the air on a corner kick, which is something I've sort of not seen from him this season so far.

So that was good to see flicked it onto the backpost for a tap-in. He wasn't perfect, but played against Dortmund at Dortmund, you know, one of the most vaunted home fields in Europe. and he looked pretty good. He looked okay. Looked fine, right? Yeah. That's well above the bar necessary to be the second striker on the U.S. men's national team.

I should say so. All right. Winger. Give me your wingers. Give me your wingers, Bells. Well, so again, I'm just sort of marrying what I think Berthelter will do with what I would kind of like to see. And in this case, there's not that much difference. I think it's going to be Pulisic, Ariola, Morris, and Tyler Boyd, as the

wingers. I think there's a possibility that Boyd will be dropped for Corey Baird or maybe even D'Andre Yedlin as an outside chance, but yawn. I just don't really, I just don't really care about all that. I can see that. I could see that be in a way to sort of integrate Yedlin with like the least amount of sort of energy expenditure possible just to use them for a 15-minute sub on the wing. Yeah.

I mean, it's hard to imagine DeAndre tucking in. and combining from the right channel. But at this point, it's kind of hard to imagine Tyler Boyd or Corey Bear doing it either. It really is. I honestly think that we'll see, I could see Boyd being dropped. I could see, I guess if Burrhalter brings in like 30 guys, 28, 30 guys, and I could see Boyd and Baird both being included. Yeah.

But again, I'd prefer that neither of them get minutes. I think Poole-Sick will probably start both games because I kind of imagine Burrhalter will like have a core group of guys that he'll want on the field, even as he experiments against Cuba. So I kind of think Pulisic will start in both games. And then I kind of wonder if maybe like Morris and Areola might split games with Morris being Berhalter's favorite guy at the moment. Yeah.

So Morris playing against Canada. Could you see Pulisic on the right? I don't think so. I think he's, I think it would be more like Ariola's versatile enough to shift him over to the right side. I think he's played on the right side. I think he's played on the right in some camps before, maybe in January for Burrhalter. So I think that'd be more likely. And I just think Boyd has sort of fallen off and he's not really having success with Bashik Das and Turkey.

And Bashikas as a team is woeful so far this season. Have they won a game yet? I think they have, but they are hovering near the bottom of the table. Yeah, that's bad news because they're a big club in Turkey. too. Right. Well, I would hope I would hope Pulisic and Ariola start both games. That's my take on it. Because I think Ariel is a better complimentary piece. As you said, I think last week, a better complimentary piece than Morris. Pulisic is totally fresh. He has nothing to go back for. So, starting both games.

I'm sure Burrhalter's not going to do Chelsea any favors this time around. Yeah, I wouldn't think so. All right. But do you now marry that with what you expect from Burrhalter? You think Morris comes off the bench twice? I think Morris probably starts one of the games, if not both of them. I don't know. I don't know what Burrhalter's going to do. I would say Morris and Aureola both start a game.

That's kind of what I'm expecting. And again, Ariola maybe hasn't lost a spot. I mean, he was out of the last camp for personal reasons. So, you know, who knows? Maybe he's still ahead of Morris in Burrhalter's death chart. All right. Let's move to midfield. There we go. I'll start. I'll start with my Cuba starters. I think there's going to be sort of an experimental flavor to this, but I think Weston McKenney will start in both games. So I've got McKenney, I've got Dwayne Holmes, and I've got Jackson Ewell starting in Central Midfield with Will Trapp as Ewell's sort of backup in this game.

So Trap might see the last 30 minutes. That is very much a marriage to Greg Burrhalter. So we're looking at 26, 27, 28, maybe 29 players in this camp from your perspective? Yeah, I think that's possible. I think that's getting to like 30 or 29 is high, but that's giving every guy who's sort of on the fringe and maybe some experimental looks, some call-ups. Yeah. I mean, for me, and I'll get to this in a second, but it seems like Zardis and Trap are not. in camp. I wouldn't bring them in. But if you did bring them in, that would bring it to 25. And then I would not be shocked if Pomacall has left off this roster too. Just given how little

Burrhalter praises him and the fact that he played him for five minutes on the wing against Uruguay in garbage time, essentially. And then Dallas has been on a really bad run of form lately, which hasn't strengthened the case for Pomacall. So, I mean, if you add Pomacol, then we're up to 28. I don't know if we want to keep doing this. where I keep adding names and then going one number higher. I'll just say this for Pomacall. I feel like Pomacall could maybe sneak in again. This is another Burrhalter cop out as far as I'm concerned,

because Pomacol could sneak in if, like, Boyd is dropped. And you bring one less winger. Pomacall played on the wing. He's versatile. You probably don't need to have exact backups at every position in a two-game window with one of the games being against Cuba. Yeah. So you could bring in an extra center midfielder and leave a wing.

wing are off if you if you wanted to keep your camp smaller and uh i'll just get into one of my like one of the thing that might frustrate me since we're on the pomacall trap uh jackson ewell uh discussion and that would be you know everyone's saying give give burhalter time you have to be patient and i get that but if burrhalter were to sort of shrink back uh and take guys who we've started to integrate and who've done okay jackson yule did fine against uruguay if we were to sort of shrink the team back and sort of default back to Will Trap instead. And we take Paxton Pomacall, who's had a really good season. He did really well with the U-20s.

And we started to integrate him into the camp. And then if we were to get rid of him in this window that isn't going to be two extremely difficult games, that would actually make me really frustrated with Burrhalter. And I think it would sort of start to undo or it makes it really hard to defend Berhalter just by saying, well, you just have to be patient. It takes time. That's true. I guess I'm just kind of setting myself up for being pleasantly surprised. Hopefully we will be. Hopefully, I mean, again, if we see Ewell on there, then I wouldn't care if

Trap is also on there. But if we just see Trap and sort of Michael Bradley as our sort of holding mid options, that's where the frustrations will sort of bubble over in my mind. Yeah, I guess the thing is, Yule's also had a bad run of form, or at least his team has. and but the thing is they're both San Jose and Dallas are still in the playoff picture whereas Columbus is not and it's really hard to not be in the playoff picture in major league soccer right man like so all the all the momentum arguments for against Ewell and Pomacall apply doubly so for Will Trap right so I think it's going to be uh legit Holmes homes who had a really nice assist over the weekend for county and a three two win after they

had this like wild indiscretion slash criminality happened in the middle of the week where they had their captain was injured for 15 months in a drunk driving accident and two other players were suspended as a result of that. So that's a big, you know, kind of a big moment for Derby County. Holmes came up big in that moment, went 90 minutes before he was subbed out. So Legette Holmes, McKinney rolled on Bradley and Ewell, I think are probably the solid six in the middle and then hope, you know, like you said, hopefully Tom McCall's added and don't rule out Will Trap. Yeah, that's about where I'm out. I think Bradley McKinney and Leggett should start the Canada game.

Again, Leggett has looked good in every Burrhalter camp to date, mostly off of the bench, it should be said, but I'm hoping that Burrhalter has sort of learned his lesson at this point and decides to give Legerette actual starting minutes. Remember when Georgie Mihalovich got to start both games in January camp over Sebastian Legit? The dude, I don't, I'll have to check. I think Legette has only started one game so far for Burrhalter.

I think he's subbed, like came on as a sub like seven times. Yeah, and he's had an impact in all of those substitute appearances. Let's see. Hey, real quick on the Dwayne Holmes front, if you haven't seen the highlight of his assist, just go check it out because it completely encapsulates what we talk about all the time, about what we want to see from our midfield, which is just sort of that all action, all energy, like make something happen. play. And that's exactly what Holmes did, just bursting out from like a deep lying, he was sitting

deep in defense and saw an opportunity to burst forward, intercept a ball, take it on the run, drive all the way up essentially towards the end line, and then whip in a decent cross that gets converted. Looked bright, looked effervescent. So defenders, I expect we'll see the same defense in this camp that we saw in September, assuming Dest accepts the call-up. Destin-lawitts at left-back, Ream, Long, Zimmerman, and Miles Robinson as the centerbacks, and then Reggie Cannon and Lima at right back. Yeah, I'd give Des to start in both games if he makes the trip. If he doesn't have some minor injury that keeps him out suspiciously just for the five-day block of time that we would need him. Do you feel like we should cap time twice?

Well, this is just one where he immediately becomes our core left back. But yes, cap time twice. just in case there's any paperwork errors in the first game. A word of warning to the fan base and to myself, don't rule out Omar Gonzalez here, especially with Miazka and John Brooks out with likely out with injury. I think Omar's lurking. He's lurking on the wings.

No, no, he's not. Surely he's not. We've got other guys that we could try out. If we wanted to get ambitious, we could try out like Ventura Alvarado, who's doing really well in Mexico. I feel like there's some noise being made around that. There's just, there can't be any way that Omar provides.

What odds would you take on the bet that Gonzalez isn't going to get called up? Five to one? No, definitely not. Three to one. Okay. You want to give me three to one, I'll take that. I'd pay three bucks if Gonzalez gets called up. So you're not that confident.

That's about what I'd give you for Venture, Colorado, too. All right. I'd personally like to see Anthony Robinson backing up desk, but I don't expect that because if Burrhalter has preferred Lovitz over Robinson so far, I see no reason why he changed that up now. I feel like this would see, again, I just think that this could be the time that Berhalter is starting to increment his way forward. And again, with Cuba being one of the opponents, this is absolutely the time to try out a couple of new faces. And Anthony's only gotten one cat for Burrhalter and it was playing as a left winger. We're now, whatever it is, seven games into the championship's probably played like 15 games already. Perhalter's been able to look at a lot more Anthony tape, and if we're using a left back that actually goes forward more often, Robinson could maybe have earned another look. Yeah, maybe so. Maybe so. Maybe we're just going to be totally shocked by this roster announcement on Wednesday.

Let's go down to goalkeeper, unless you have anything more on the defense. No, I think that covers the defense. Okay. I think it'll be Stefan, Johnson, and Gonzalez as the realistic picks. Jesse Gonzalez, not perfect, but he's had a lot of bright moments over the last few weeks, despite Dallas's horrible form. But again, don't rule out Brad Guzan is what I'd say. Brawolder loves his old guys. Right. If we do go full experimental against Cuba, then that'd be the game where Gonzalez would be like the backup. That'd be the wild experiment to have him back up Zach Stephan.

I agree. I think Guzan is probably better odds than Omar to get in. Yeah. Guzanne Gonzalez, I'd say, is a 50-50 for who's that third goalkeeper. Yeah. And it doesn't really matter that much. It does not matter at all. Before we get out of here, can you give me your starting lineups for Cuba and Canada again?

They might have got lost in the shuffle there. So my Cuba lineup would be Zach Steffin-Gole. Reem and Zimmerman probably. I think Reem would start both games, and I think Dest will start both games if he accepts a call-up. So that'd be Ream, Zimmer, Desd, and I think Lima against Cuba. Jackson Ewell at Holding Mid, McKenny and Holm, sort of as the central midfielder's around him. Pulisick and Paul Areola on the wings, Josh Sergeant up top.

That's a strong experimental lineup, I feel like. That would be a fun game to watch, for sure. I mean, Ewell held his own against Uruguay, so it's not like putting him in against Cuba. is going to be too much for him. Yeah, I mean, we better win 10-0. What about against Canada? Can you run through that real quick? So I think what Burhalter's preferred lineup is is Stefan and goal.

I think Ream and Long as the centerbacks with Dest and Cannon as the fullbacks. Michael Bradley is that holding mid. Legette and McKinney, Central Mids around Bradley, and then Poulosick and Jordan Morris on the wings with Altador up top. Okay. Can that team beat Canada? I think so. It's a little soft through the middle, but that's going to be the case, whether it's Bradley or Ewell, I think, at the six until our Lord and Savior, Tyler Adams, returns to us. No, that's a good point because it still gets difficult finding some, like a real, like, hard-nosed central midfield, even with the options we've given.

Yeah. I have the Cuba-Canada game from September recorded in my, or maybe there were two games. I have one of them recorded in Fubo, so I'm going to try to watch that before next week so we can talk about that a little bit, talk about them a little bit. I mean, I'm sure there's so much to learn from this game. Well, that game finished one-zero, right, Canada, Cuba? I think one of them finished one zero, even though I think in the Gold Cup, I think Canada beat Cuba seven-zero. Well, the one of them ended as a total blowout, too. I think Jonathan David had like a hat trick plus one or something.

Okay. Jonathan David. I said this on Twitter a couple weeks ago, but if we had a 19-year-old striker scoring 10 goals through the first two months of the Belgian season, we'd be out of our minds, and that's what he's doing, a Canadian sort of second striker. Well, we've got Chris Durkan in the Belgian League,

so we're going to catch up quick. I guess my last thought on this roster is it would be great for Richie Ledesma to get a look in this camp, but let's face it, that is not going to happen. He'll likely be with the U-23s, as will Chris Richards, Alex Mendez, and all of our favorite former U-20s. Canada beat Cuba-7-0 in the Gold Cup. They beat Cuba 6-0 at home in the Nations League in Toronto.

They then went to the Cayman Islands and beat Cuba 1-0. So they've outscored Cuba 14-0 over the last three matches. Okay, but the Cayman Islands were kind of a tough venue for it. Yeah. Okay. Something to keep in mind for November. Anything else on the roster? No, there's a good chance that will be pleasant.

I think there's a good chance will be pleasantly surprised. Sky pies. Yeah. Well, here's to that. Cheers to that. I think we're done. Stick around for my interview with Oliver Whist, coming up right after the break. Our guest today is Oliver Whiss, the general manager of Orange County SC,

a club in the USL championship that's right now battling for a playoffs. spot. They've also recently signed two promising young Americans away from MLS franchises, Brian Keo from D.C. United and Diego Lopez from Atlanta United, given that those types of signings are fairly unusual and that Orange County sits in the most soccer rich part of the country, I wanted to learn more about the plans at the club. Oliver, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for your time. Adam, thanks for having me. Really appreciate you're reaching out to us and to get a little bit more inside in Orange County Soccer Club and how we're trying to change player development.

Fantastic. So tell me about your development pipeline. From what I understand, you have the first team, of course, and a U-23 team that competes in U-S.L League 2. And you recently held tryouts for a U-17 side. Is that right? Yes. So right now, in the current structure, we have obviously a U.S.

championship team, which has been competing in the U.S.L for five years. Then we have our U-23 team that plays in the U.S.L League 2, the former PDL League. You're a little bit limited there with player development because obviously they all have to be amateurs, even though we did move every year one or two players from that team and send them to a pro contract. So that player development structure is working. And then obviously you're very, very excited about the upcoming U-17 inaugural Academy Cup, which were obviously a funding member and a big believer in the U.S.L model that is proposed. to all the USL clubs.

Can you talk a little more about that cup? Is it a tournament in October? Yeah, it's a tournament basically for you 17s, but there also have to be some younger players. I think it's very clear, as you can tell, the pro teams are taking a lot more active approach of developing players. We have obviously for, you know,

the last three years have talked about a pathway to professional that we believe putting younger, the most talented players in a professional environment, learn what he means to be a professional on and off the field, while learning also from very, very talented, you know, experienced players is the ideal way to maximize a player's potential. I think within the USL, the plan is now to have an inaugural cup, which will then ultimately turn into an academy league for all the USL teams

where you don't have a full DA, so-called team, in every age bracket because as we all, like, it's very, very expensive. But they really have one youth team where you can sign professional players and amateur players that are basically your second team to your first team. Okay. And I guess U-17 is the right age for that because, is it the right age for that? Yeah, I think player development, let's be very honest. If you look at players like we do as assets, the most talented 15, 16 or 17-year-olds,

if they're not capable to train and hold their own with a pro team, then you might have to argue if they actually have the talent to be a professional player with the potential to actually move them on to the highest, absolutely, level. So I think that U-17 is a good age bracket to really kick off the U.S.L Academy Cup. So will the cup evolve into a league, or is it just going to be like a semi-annual tournament? No, the way it's structured today, there will be this year will be U-17 Cup to start it off.

Then the finals will be next year in Tampa, and then there also will be a U-13 bracket. With that leading into a full-blown academy season, the U.S.L academy season, where all the teams that are in the U.S.L structure can actually have an academy team that will be participating on a full-time level, which I think is going to be an ideal platform. to showcase some of the most talented young players and to develop them in their own structure along with the pro team. Okay. So you mentioned that Todd Saldania is a friend of yours

and I assume you probably know some of the people at the Galaxy. Do you, are you going to have to be recruiting against them? And if so, what is the pitch? What is the pitch from Orange County SC to a talented 15-year-old or 16-year-old in his family? Well, I think at the end of the day, we obviously have the advantage. In the U.S. we control the player rights at 100%, right?

The MLS single-ed-in-league, and it's probably a little bit harder for an MLS academy player to make the jump into the first team. In the U.S.L, as you can tell, we made it very clear that we want to give the most talented players the opportunity to actually play and showcase their talents in the U.S. Championship, which is a very high level. Now, granted, we're not just playing guys because. they're young. We're playing guys because they're talented. And with that, that means you have to

prepare them accordingly, right? We set an entire structure over the last three years from our technical director, which is Franz Hulke, right, who's been one of the most recognized worldwide and renowned, you know, technical coach and mentor. And our head coach,

Braden Clotier, is fully aligned with the goal of the organization to develop young players. And we even have a talent manager, that is Didier Kretano, a former player, and that solely works with our young, most talented players within the professional team training structure and to really, again, do extra sessions with these players, you know, teach him what it means to be a pro, but then also, you know, still let him make mistakes and develop these players.

And what I mean with this is if you have to create an entire environment where these players are truly developing. And I think in the MLS Academies to a certain extent, a lot of the players, players play their own age brackets. I'm a big believer, obviously, growing up in Europe through the Swiss channels, that the most talented youth players, when ready, never really compete their own age bracket. And I think the quicker you can expose them when they're ready to the professional environment, where they're now learning from a professional training staff, also from professional players, and we have some of them who've obviously played on the absolutely highest level,

including the World Cups, I think that's a very, very good development structure and environment to really maximize these players. So I would say, do we have great friends with LAAFC and L.A. Galaxy? Absolutely. At the end of the day, I think competition usually brings out the best in people. But I believe we have a clear model, and we have proven that young players, when ready, will be given the opportunities to play. Like we did two years ago when we signed Aaron Savantes, our young goalkeeper at age 15,

to a pro-contract. He's developed in our structure. and this year's May 11 starts, has done really, really well, and it's, you know, scheduled to go to the U-S70 World Cup in Brazil later on this month. Right, right. Well, so what's the end game then? Like, there isn't a great track record of U.S.L clubs being able to sell players directly to Europe yet, right? Is there...

Absolutely. Well, look, it hasn't done yet, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. And again, I think it goes into, it has to be part of your organization. The DNA of our organization is very clear. We recognize there's a tremendous amount of talent in Southern California and also in the United States, but we want to focus on the local market. And we just felt that there was never truly a pro club who was truly invested time, effort, to enhance resources into truly creating that environment.

So the endgame for us is absolutely, we want to play these players, we want to sign these players, and when ready, we will move them on to the next level. The beauty of it is we're not a club that's looking specifically for high transfer fees for our young players, but we want to stay in the game with future transfer rights so that if the player goes from here into another club that develops him and then he moves on,

I think that's where then our return is for our investment. But we feel very clearly, look, there's so much talent and if developed correctly, and if moved on at the right time, that these players can do really well and ultimately make a difference even for the U.S. national team. Yeah. So the business case would be training compensation and solidarity payments, at least at the moment. At the end. Yes.

And I think if you really look at it, you know, the players who have gone over to Europe, We don't feel that a player at age 14, 15 or 16 has to head over to Europe, has to go to Mexico yet. We feel we can develop these players here and also mature them off the field, which I think is very important as well. For example, I'm sure you know we've signed Francis Jacobs, a 14-year-old player that became the youngest ever-American signing. And that's not why we signed them.

We signed them because we tracked them for two years. We invited him to our first team training. He needed it really, really well. But he's at age 14. He still needs to be allowed to be a teenager. And even though he had offers to go to Europe already, he also has an English passport, we kept him here and the family feels this is the absolutely best possible environment.

So I think to really looking at these players, develop them here domestically in a professional structure and move them on whenever they're ready to the next level is the way to go to also kind of guarantee that these players don't just go over there and they come back within six months. because they were not adequately cared for it. Yeah, it is a, it's obviously a big transition for kids.

So let's talk about somebody you just signed, which is kind of what inspired me to call you guys. You signed Brian K.O. a couple weeks ago, one of the top midfielder in the country and his age group, and someone who came up in the D.C. United Academy, at least recently. Can you talk about how that deal came about? Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of today, Brian is like the same, same we can talk a little about Diego Lopez.

These are players that we have tracked for a while. Obviously, they were in their system. And I think, you know, players like Brian have seen what we have done with a player like Aaron Savantes or with a player like Francis Jacobs. And I think it's clear to say that Brian's goal is not to be a USL player or probably maybe even an MLS player. Brian's goal is to be playing in Europe. And I think it was clear that he followed.

coming to Orange County, that prepares him, you know, gives him the opportunity to play, coming in a professional environment where he's surrounded by players like Michael O'Rosco, right, who's played for the U.S. 29 times in the Olympic team or other great players that he will develop and prepare them better for the next level. So I think Brian and Diego came from Atlanta United have been tracking us very closely, and they thought that this would give him the best opportunity to be developed and to move on to the next level, which we are willing to move them on when we feel they're ready for it. I see.

I know you're not releasing the terms of the deal, so I won't beg you for that on the podcast. But I am curious, like you said, his goal, at least widely reported, his goal is to go to Europe when he turns 18. What's the point of signing him if that's what he wants to do, you know, eight months from now? You know what I mean? Look, oh, I completely understand. The reality is we're a club. Look, again, not every player needs to stay with us three years before we move them on. Let's be very honest.

There's players who might be with us three, six, nine months or 12 months. That will move on to the next level. There is obviously business structure to it. And the fact that we can find a very, very talented player that has our interest from European teams, I think fits imperfectly with our business model. and again, today he's an Orange County soccer club player and let's see what the future holds for him. We assume that Brian will be called into the World Cup as well.

So I think his stock will only rise and the opportunity for him to move on next year at some point in time is definitely there, but he can also be rest assured if that is not going to happen that he will be continued to develop with the whole purpose of moving him on to the next level. And I think that's one of probably the biggest difference between us and the MLS. I think if a player ends up signing an MLS contract, it's not as easy for him to move on to Europe,

even if there's interest because I think the transfer fees and everything that has sometimes been demanded from the MLS doesn't allow for easy transfers, where we're saying, hey, we realize that's the goal of the player. We want to be part of this, and this is part of our club structure. So moving a player from the U.S.L with a club that is very willing to produce and sell players is probably a better environment for these young players if their goal is to move on to the next level, which is for most of them is in Europe. Yeah. I mean, there are countless examples of players getting sort of caught by a high transfer fee

that their MLS team is demanding. So you guys wouldn't necessarily demand a transfer fee. Am I hearing you right on that? Like you would just, you might just let him go for free? No, free is definitely not in a, I think in business, it's never really free, but we're definitely will not be asking for a transfer fee that is not, that is, you know, that is too high and that actually kills a deal. What I'm saying is we're not so keen on that the transfer fee has to be very big at the

beginning. What we are looking for, though, is to actually keep future transfer rights of the players, so that actually our financial payoff comes on the second transfer. Because it's very important if we move on a player too, we don't just want to move him on to a club where he ends up not playing, right? The reality is we much rather move him on to a club where he actually has a chance of playing, and then from there he goes on to the next club.

So many players will make big money deals, and they end up going to big clubs. They never have the opportunity to be playing because, right, a lot of these teams can buy very expensive players. So for us, the business model is a bit different. We want to stay part of the players. development and financial gain for as long as possible. He has a professional career.

I see. So like some sell-on rights, right? Absolutely. Okay, got it. Well, on Keo, can you give us kind of a scouting report on him? Like, what do you like about him as a player? Sort of enough about money sort of on the soccer side, you know? Well, I think what makes Brian very unique, he is, he's a,

a player that does everything by instinct right now. I think he's kind of come on national recognition when he had a very good Concord Calf qualification for the U.S. He's a player that covers a lot of ground. That

definitely is a two-way player that everybody feels has tremendous talent. I think it's still a player that needs a lot of tactical work and attention to it because as you know on the next level you know, it's a lot more than just having technical and athletic ability. The tactical aspect becomes very important.

And again, I think why he and his family ultimately chose for him to come here, he knows we're putting a lot of time and effort into these kind of details. And obviously then work closely also with the U.S. national team staff to make sure we can develop a player because, yes, it's important for us that he does well for Orange County Soccer Club, but we also feel a responsibility that these players do actually actually. well on the U.S. national teams and hopefully someday represent the first team because that's a pride we take in there as well as which is part of our development process. Yeah, that would be fantastic. And I saw it reported in the Washington Post, I think, that part of the part of what went

on there is your friends with Raffa Wiki and he was able to vouch vouch for you with KEO? Is that right? Actually, Rafa, yeah, we played together in the Swiss youth national teams. That's a long long time ago. And yes, of course, there's a friendship. But at the end of the day, as you know, people might say that was part of the reason at the end of the day. It was very clear this is a player we wanted to come here that we felt very strongly about. And I think Raffa knows well enough what we have done with Aaron Savantes, who's part of

that group as well, what we're planning on doing with Diego Lopez or with Francis Jacobs, that I'm sure he was very happy to see that the players come here and be prepared, accordingly for a very, very talented World Cup team that he has. Right. Okay. I saw Brian was a unused substitute over the weekend. Do you think he'll get into

any matches before the end of this season? I know you guys have some serious goals you have to accomplish over the next few weeks. Oh, yeah. No, look, I will say this, you know, for Brian, the goal is for all these young players to get their minutes when they're ready on. And again,

you know, we want to expose some of these players obviously coming in a full playoff fight is not easy for any player young or experience, right, because making the playoffs for us is definitely one of the minimum standard that we set at the beginning of the year. But no, look, we also play scrimmage games like last week. We played the United Galaxy Academy team where Brian got a good 75 minutes game alongside with some of other reserves and our young players. So our development structure is not only on game day, our development structure is daily, right? In our training environment, in the video sessions, in the friendly games that we're setting up.

So, of course, we would love to see all these young players play. But as you also know, the USO championship is not an easy league for any young player to come in. But again, our head coach feels very comfortable with these players. He's obviously fully involved when we bring in these players. And when they're ready and we feel they can help us contribute, we'll put a in and go. So we would love to see Brian make his debut for Orange County Soccer Club, you know, before the end or before he would end up leaving for the World Cup.

But if he ends up being going into next year, then so be it. Because again, we never set really a timeframe for young players to make that because that only adds a lot of pressure on a young player that he really doesn't need. Right, right. Okay. Well, let me ask this. When you, when the deal was announced with Brian, did you, how does that go over with MLS. Did you get like a midnight phone call from Don Garber?

No, no phone call. No, I think, you know, it's the same that we did a few days later with Diego Lopez, right? And again, I think I will say Diego Lopez, you know, we scouted two years ago. We wanted Diego two years ago at the same time when we sent Aaron Savantis, but Diego at that time chose to go to Atlanta, which was very much understandable as a club, we were not as established yet as we are today. You know, we didn't have the success story of Aaron Savantas yet. But I think these players obviously talk. You know, the agents and the families of the players are watching what we're doing.

I think we've been the last six months or the last year in the news, letting people know that we are committed to player development, getting these young players and are committed to move them on to the next level. So there was no phone call from the MLS. I think at the end of the day these players wanted to come here they were available and we're excited to have them

and we're not stopping here because to be honest with you we have interest from many more players like the Bryans and the Diego's that we're working on but we also want to make sure we're not just signing young players that are talented but they also have the mentality and the characteristic to really succeed in our development

Because the same way as the MLS, these players that are signing for us pro contracts, they get paid. And we also have an education fund that offsets to college education because we feel if we're committed to the player, not only on the field, but also off the field. So that's why I think this is a professional model that if we show it right and we start moving some of these players overseas for transfer fees and future transfer rights, I think could probably change the way some of the player development is being done in the United States, and we want to be at the forefront of that within the USL championship and generally within the United States. Yeah, I'm ready to sign on the dotted line. Right, right. I'm pretty old, but I can play left back.

No, I'm just kidding. Do you know of any other USL clubs that are doing this? I mean, I know there was the example of Haji Wright did this when he, rather than sign with the Galaxy, He signed with the New York Cosmos in NASL in the interim before he wanted to jump to Europe, and then he ended up at Shalka. But that's the only other example I can think of like this. Are there other examples? Well, I think there's a few players, San Antonio, just moved the player on to the Belgian 2nd Division.

That's right. I think there's other clubs in the U.S.L who are obviously signing these players. There's a very good, and I'm part of the U.S. Technical Committee for all the different. the player development in the academy. And there's a lot, a lot of experience, you know, staff members on there who truly believe that, hey, look, of course, we all want to win for a USL championship, because let's be honest, if you are a pro team and you don't want to win the championship, why do it? But I think there's more of the coaches who realize, hey, we also have a lot of talented

players that should be developed. And I think if we can show here in Orange County at the forefront of this player development that some of these young players will end up going on. I think that will also open up the eyes and the interest of some of the other USL owners who will say, hey, you know what? I like that because it's very clearly in the current model, right? The business model, yes, of course, the franchise fees are going up, which is always great.

But between sponsorships and, you know, ticket sales, the true aspect to a business in soccer is selling players and develop them, the same way it's done all over the world. And I see absolutely no reason why we cannot do this in the United States. And more importantly, I believe we have a perfect platform within the U.S.L championship, but never compromising, obviously, still, that this is not a development league, that it's a full professional league, but where the most talented young players will get the opportunity to be developed. And I think that's why this project is so exciting.

Yeah. Yeah, it is exciting. I don't know if this interests you, but let me ask about it anyway. I see you have one player on, at least one player on loan from the LA Galaxy, Hugo Ariano. And I wonder, is he the only player you have on loan from an MLS franchise right now? Yes, he's the only player. I think, you know, two and a half years ago when we started this, when James Kest and our new owner came in, And we actually had a partnership with LAAFC before they had their team. And of course, you know, when you have an MLS partner, I think there's benefits to it.

But I think there's also, you know, things where you have to really say, hey, is it really in the best interest for U.S. franchise? Because, you know, depending on players that can be called back up to the MLS team, compromising kind of like team chemistry solely for the purpose of maybe get a little bit relief on the, the roster on the budget, it's probably not worth for any club to really do it. I think it becomes more a case by case. What I mean for that example, last year, we had three or four different players from different clubs between the MLS. We had a player from New York FC, we had a player from Columbus crew, we had one from New England evolution, and it was more based on the position we needed. And I think that's where this is heading. Having a full-blown partnership with an MLS where

you have three or four clubs players come down on the weekend to play and you might already have very, very talented players like in our case have some very talented young players we might try to prefer to play these and develop those than actually developing players that are actually in the MLS structure. So to answer your question, no, this year we have one player from Hugo.

We were looking for a versatile left back, left center back. We have a great relationship with the LA Galaxy. They felt it was important. important for him to come in this structure where he could learn from, you know, top experience players and get better. And we're open for that. But it's definitely not, you know, the maturity of our players that we want to have. Well, why don't the loans, why did the loans work that way where they would just come down and play with you on the weekend?

Why wouldn't they work like a loan does? And you're, I assume in Europe where, like, if you're on loan, you're, you're like with the other club, the whole. Yeah. And, And like, yeah, and I, for example, Hugo is on a whole season loan. We would have not taken it otherwise. I see. With us this season. But the majority of the MLS loans to the USL are the MLS has to recall anytime. So they can call the player back in, which is understandable.

You know, they pay for their salaries and they're their players. And if they need him, you know, they want to bring him back, you know. For the MLS to send a player down to the USL, and I don't know if sending them down is the right word for it. But if they haven't go down there, it's definitely not for the USL team to make them better. It's for that player to get playing time and be integrated back with the MLS team. So, again, for us, that's not what we're interested in. And I think it's the USL championship level has increased so dramatically that, to be honest with you, a lot of these MLS players that are coming down to get extra playing time,

actually are struggling to, you know, deserving to be in the starting 11 for a team. And when the player has to play, I think, it never sets a good precedent for the coach, for the organization, for what you want to accomplish. LAAFC has this very strong academy, but they don't have a USL team. And a player like Todd and I talked about this, a player like Tony Leon, there's going to be a period of time where he's probably not ready to play

for LASC's first team at centerback, you know, a position that's extremely cerebral and difficult for a young player to play. But maybe he's. he could, maybe a player like that who's really, like really high potential, could get, you know, at the age of 19 or maybe even 20, get minutes with Orange County. Is that kind of thing, would that kind of thing interest you?

Like if it were a season-long loan, something like that? Well, I think you would have to question if we bring a player down from an MLS team while we feel we have a young player ourselves in that position. Yeah. What is the interest? Maybe there's a business model that could be arranged. That would make sense for both parties. But I think at the end of the day, a player like this or some of the talent of players,

and you mention it, let's use LASC as a placeholder, these young academy players are going to say, okay, if I really want to be a pro and play on the highest level at 18, will I have the opportunity in the MLS structure? And I think if you kind of look what's been playing on the fields, that's probably not a realistic opportunity where they may be look at a club like us and say, wow, they're playing, you know, a 17-year-old goalkeeper in the goal. They have two other 17s plus a 14-year-old that are training, that are ready to go and probably will make their debut this year or next year for sure.

And I think that's the beauty of this development structure that we have. We have become now a very interesting, you know, club for developing these talented players who want to go on and move on the highest level. And that will not be held back when the time is right. right. So I think the U.S.L. and specifically Orange County Soccer Club is the perfect option for a young talented player to be part of. Yeah. It's a great option for young players to have because you're right. I mean, they didn't have a, they didn't really have that much of an option up until clubs started doing this. No, I mean, I mean, look at this. I mean, you come in and train every single day, right, with an incredible technical staff. you play and learn from players, like I said,

like the Michael Orozco's or the Aden Quins, who've played on the absolutely highest level, and they teach you what it means to be professional. And I think we have the ideal story. Look at it this way. Adam, Michael Orozco, as a 15-year-old, had to leave Orange County to go down to Mexico and made his way through the Mexican leagues,

ultimately to the U.S. national team. Michael Orozco would have much rather states homes, here and waited until he was 18 to go down there. And so for us to bring him back, he's not only the gift is an incredible player, but also he's a role model now for the younger players, and he teaches a player like Francis or Brian what he really means to be professional. So learning from players like that in a daily routine, and then from a great technical staff and from a talent manager, I would argue that there's not many better ways or

environment, specifically in the United States, to develop a player that truly has the character, the talent, and the drive to be a future professional here or specifically in Europe. And we don't ever want to be the end piece of any young players. We just want to be a very important piece in their development, and we feel we have an edge over everybody else. Okay. Well, let me ask you one more question. You're from Switzerland, like you said, but you've been in Southern California for 25 years now.

something like that? Yes. What's your assessment of U.S. soccer development? Where is it improving and where does it need to improve so that we can win a World Cup someday? Hopefully in my lifetime. I'm 36. I came, yes, I came, I'm 45, so I came in 94 right after the World Cup, right?

That was an incredible start to, I believe, professional soccer in the United States, even though the league was postponed the MSS for one year. The growth of soccer in the United States is second to none. The desire, you know, the infrastructure, just the amount of players is it's hard to find anywhere else in the world. But I always felt that even though we had some of the absolutely most talented players here, there was really never a structure to develop these players. And I think U.S. soccer and the DA has done a great job.

But again, I believe ultimately for the most talented players, the D.E. Pro teams have to take a very active job in developing these players. And that takes time. And I think while they have done a great job investing lots of money into the DA and the fully funded ones, I still believe now these players also have to have been given the opportunity to actually play on the highest level. Because I think when you look at now the U-17 team going to the World Cup, you know, every team they're playing against, most of these players are fully. professionals, right, playing for top clubs all around their country or internationally where with the U.S. now

most of these players are falling into that pro aspect. And I think this year, correct me, if around the U-20 for the first time, all the players were professional, and there was not one college player, right? I went to the U-20 World Cup. So I think the signs are definitely there.

It's all pointing in the right direction. I think a little bit better coaching, more coaching development, and truly, setting environments for these most talented players to excel is what it takes. So I'm extremely excited about the growth and the opportunities for you as players. And I want to be part of this. And we at Orange County want to be part of this, developing some of these players that go on to the World Cup and hopefully let the U.S. win one of these beautiful trophies because I think then we can really say the U.S. has met his goals. All right. Oliver, what a pleasure to speak with

you. Thank you for this and thank you for the work you're doing. Good luck in it. Adam, thank you very much for having us. Thank you for Exposing Orange County Soccer Club and some of our most talented players to your listeners. Thank you for doing a great job. And listen, we're all in this together. So I look forward to continuing and catching up with you again and seeing some of these young players truly flourish in our structure. Okay. Stay in touch. Take care. Thank you very much. Talk to you soon. Bye-bye.