Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - Episode 120: Abel Meszaros — a European view on Americans in the Bundesliga

Episode Date: January 28, 2020

Our guest today is Abel Meszaros, a newsletter writer, TV analyst and occasional guest on the Talking Fussball podcast whose specialty is German football. Abel does a weekly show for SportTV, the Hungarian network that carries the Bundesliga, and he breaks down the Bundesliga in DETAIL in his weekly newsletter Bundesliga Bulletin. He helped us make sense of where several Americans (not all of them) stand in Germany.AdamsMcKennieSargentReynaBrooksLlanezRichardsSotoChandlerAbel's Twitter: https://twitter.com/BundesPLAbel's newsletter: http://bundesligabulletin.substack.com/  Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scuffed podcast. I'm Adam Bells in Minneapolis. With me is Greg Velasquez in Des Moines. We talk about U.S. men's soccer. Thanks for downloading another episode of Scuffed. Got a special guest today, Abel Mezzarosh, a newsletter, TV analyst, and occasional guest on the Talking Fusball podcast, whose specialty is German football.

Greg and I talk about the Bundesliga of fair amount, but it's good to get an expert outsider perspective. Abel does a weekly show for Sport TV, the Hungarian network that carries the Bundesliga, and he breaks down the Bundesliga in detail in his weekly newsletter, Bundesliga Bulletin. And his primary interest is not the U.S. men's national team, so we're counting on him for some cold dispassion

when it comes to the Americans playing in Europe. Thanks for being here, Abel. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure for me to be on. I'm a fan of the podcast and really enjoy listening to it. So happy to be invited. Thanks, man. So somewhere around 50 Americans

are playing in Germany if you include the younger academy age groups. We're not going to get into all of them, but a big picture question right off the top, it seems like German clubs are less skeptical of the American player than clubs in the rest of Europe. Is that true? And if it's true, why is that? Yeah, it's a good question.

I don't know if there's a, I mean, you could probably tell more about whether there's a general skepticism towards Americans in the rest of the Europe, or like maybe it's just Germany in general, a league that gives younger guys a chance. You could see that with, you know, countless success stories from Christian Pulisic and, you know, also not just the Americans like Sancho and whatnot. And I think that's been the calling card for the Bundesliga for, I think now for at least five, four or five years that, you know, if you are a 17 year old and

you're not getting a chance to play and you don't want to, you know, sit on the bench or worry about your academy, you could just come over and obviously have an easier route to sort of the first team and still play in a league that I, and I think most people consider to be in one of the top three or four leagues. And it's a very high tempo. There's lots of pressing. It's really tactically interesting. And it's a very young league. So you get a lot of the attacking talent. You get some good defenders. And it's a fun league to play. And I think, you know, just the atmosphere, like I myself go to Germany a lot, just work or for some fun to take in sort of the atmosphere that,

obviously I think it's improved in the U.S. I mean, I am an American and I've lived in the U.S. for, although not currently. So I've got somewhat of a perspective on how there's differences between them, but I think just in terms of the clubs, I think in the Mnestliga now, I mean, like the Mnestiga 20 years ago, used to have that reputation that they are happy to get sort of like cheaper players. And like you'd have a lot of like Eastern European players or even like some people from the

far east. But it wasn't sort of the paying aspects so much. And then I think especially in 2010s, that's changed to basically scouting all over the world. Like, you know, like Shinji Kagawa's is a great one from. And you thought you could see all the Japanese players coming in. Like recently there's been the trend now for, has been to scout and scour the French League or the English sort of, you know, 17-year-olds who don't get a chance at Manchester City or Everton. And, you know, those guys are coming in and having great seasons and they see that. Or, I mean, Erling Holland is another one.

You know, like is a guy who's lighting the world on fire. And a year ago, nobody knows who he was. And now he sees Dortmund and the Bundesliga as a springboard. And you saw that, just to stay with the American example. I mean, Pulisic is a great one. I think Giorina might have sort of similar ideas. So it's just, I don't know if it's necessarily like being less skeptical of the American players. Although it seemed like there's an easier transition.

I guess the other thing you could think about is you have sort of roots down there, like just the older players, like, you know, all of those players that Clemsman used to count on or still, I guess some people still count on that. or even before like the Thomas Duley, you know, like those guys who would, who had come over in the 90s and you have those contacts and like or even like a Joe Enoch's at Osnabrook. There's a lot of guys who, you know, will have kind of connections and could help a player and take a chance on them. Yeah, that makes sense. So it's more it's general it's more just a general omnivorousness from Bundesliga clubs about finding talent than it is anything specifically America. sounds like. Yeah, I mean, although like it's interesting because because there are, there are, I think, 11 Americans who are we're on the books this season, which is actually a fairly significant

amount when it comes to other nations. So, for example, there's 11 Brazilians in the Bundesliga and there's 12 Spanish players. So that's a pretty high list. And that's basically like number five and six in terms of if you look at them. I mean, obviously the biggest ones are like Austria just because it's linguistic Austria. Switzerland and then Netherlands, which are right there and France. So after that, the U.S. is ahead of a lot of those, like, you know, much like, like, for example, like in the 90s, you'd have a lot of Serbians, Croatians, Hungarians, you know,

people who are, you know, so now I think there is that, there is that chance that, that, that it, yeah, there's, there's guys who are going to get a chance to play and whether not they're good enough is, obviously always the 60, $4,000 question. Right, right. Well, another reason, at least from the American perspective for why so many Americans are there, it's easier to get a visa or easier to, the league doesn't have the same rules about how many, about roster rules, right?

Yeah, I mean, like, not nothing, like, too restrictive. Like, I do know that there are some limited rules about having, I think, 11 German players. Because I know Frankfurt were a team that were marketing, the Mr. International sort of moniker for a while and they had to like sign a couple guys to be on the,

just to be on the roster. Like typically the Bundesliga squads or I guess rosters are, can be very large. Like they could be some, some, some coves will have like 32,

35 players on there. And, and you do, I mean, but yeah, I would agree with you that it's easier. I think it's also easier just because like the language,

you do have, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the teams would almost like, everybody at the club level will speak some some English at least like enough to get by yeah i think german and english just just from speaking those languages there's you know linguistically there's there's obviously they're in the same family um you can you can certainly pick some of it up for sure

um it's and it's and it's germany is a fun place to to live in it's you know it's very intercultural in some ways um you can you can you can easily travel you can you can you can have a you can any and the facilities are great. So I think everything there is obviously, you know, just just given to the athletes and to players to perform. And I think those are all positives when you're a young player who's looking to move abroad, the atmosphere, the sort of, you know, just people's general concept or people's general ideas about soccer, about football are much more like, they're much more part of everyday life. And I think in the U.S.

It's still, you know, it's still a waste from that. And like in Germany, you're not competing with, you know, the NFL or NBA or not to say that those don't exist, but soccer is clearly number one. Right. I can tell that I can tell from following Lars Pullman on Twitter that some people in Germany follow the NFL. Oh, yeah. It's been coming on. Yeah. And I know Lars says, I have, you know, lots of people.

But, yeah, that's been coming on. And then players, too. I mean, you do have, and I think, like, some of the, like, there's a lot of cross-promotion. I think Bayern duo do a good job of that with Patrick Mahomes and whatnot. But, yeah, it's, you know, I mean, you don't have to take the chutes. Okay, so let's get into the player pool, the players we want to talk about. I want to start with Tyler Adams, just got back to health after a long layoff, playing some right back for Julian Nogelsman at RB Leipzig. What's your assessment of his strengths and weaknesses and talk about how the rest of his season is likely to play out?

and then, you know, maybe the next couple years for him. Yeah, it's a really interesting case because, like, you know, coming over from the Red Bull organization, he was, I think, a big part of Ragnick's plans, Ralph Rangnick, who is the visionary, who sort of gave gotten the golden parachute and now sort of oversees the global operations. And I think many people in Germany were surprised

just by, like, how mature he is as a player, how smart he is, how clever he handles pressure just on the field, off the field. And then he had that really unfortunate injury, but basically they were planning with him to be a starter or at least somebody who's a serious option for what they call sort of a number six sort of holding defensive midfielder who can circulate the ball.

And I think the example that really supports this is that Diego Deme, who is basically their second captain and the guy who's been on the team since 2014 coming from Paderborn, was let go in this winter. He went to Napoli for 12 million. And I think the biggest reason for that is Tyler Adams coming back. So he came back in the match day 17 affair against Stokesburg and played right back. And when I was looking at that, he really kind of jumped off the tape just because of how, just because of like he knows how to be in the right spaces he understands like the quick combinations

like and and then he played uh in the match the 18 against union berlin he played as a number six where i think he's he's a better he's a better fit there i know this is a big question uh in the in the u.s men's national team circles of where he's supposed to play but um then like in the union match he he was the one who kind of gave the ball away uh for for the goal that Union scored. But other than that, he was, I would say, flawless. And he, you know, it's one of those things where if you make a mistake right back, you know, most of the times you'll lose the ball for a throw-in or maybe you get countered and somebody helps out. But if you make a mistake as sort of a number six, like basically they're running at your defense and then it's going to be a chance.

Yeah. So it's a maturation process for him. And what was weird this weekend when they lost to Frankfurt is that they have a lot of defensive issues. And they actually didn't put Adams at number six as many people expected, but he played at the right wingback because they were playing like a 3-1-4-2 with the ball. So he was playing right wingback. And in the first half, I thought he did pretty well because they were able to counterpress and have the ball and dominate Frankfurt but couldn't score. And in the second half, he had a lot of trouble against Philip Costich. And Philip Costich is, like if you guys don't know, he's somebody who really could play like lots of different sports.

like has that crazy athletic you know guy and he's a handful for for everybody and he was kind of overrunning him in the second half and they and they ended up losing the match although partly and not not because of Tyler Adams or anything that he did so so I think like his weakness assists are particularly that like one-on-one he's not somebody who would say like he's an elite defender right or someone who's going to like really beat somebody for speed or one of those. So, like, I think Joshua Kimich is, I think, a fairly good comparison. Because, you know, because Kimmich is the same.

Like, you play him at right back. You play him at defensive mid. Like, we don't really know. But I think in the center of the park, you probably, that's where I would rather see him because he, what are, what his strengths are, decision making, you know, counterpressing, just sort of ball retention, vision, like all those things. that I think are better if you play him in the middle. Typically, like, you know, for me, like, somebody who's a wingback, you would want someone

who has, like, exceptional speed or great one-on-one stuff. And to me, like, he's someone... He doesn't have that, no. Yeah, and I think you don't have to, like, for sure. So, but I think, like, his ceiling, if you're asking me, he's definitely, like, for sure, like, he's going to be a regular Brunistica starter, or he might already would be if he weren't injured. And I think like down the sort of the rest of the season, there's a very good chance that he is going to be playing there because they have Kevin Kampo who is still injured.

And then they have basically guys who they converted like Conrad Limer is kind of a he's been converted into a defensive midzabitzer who's kind of like their right side of number 10. He's been he's been playing there and that didn't work out. So I definitely think like he's the number one candidate. And I know Nagosman is a big fan of him. So I would say, like, for sure, he's good enough to be, maybe not like a difference maker, but somebody who's a regular starter on that sort of, you know, top, top two, top three team. And, you know, whether or not he can go anywhere higher, I think, I think that's sort of tough to say. But, but, you know, there is, like, there is a, I think a lot of value in having those kind of players.

like Julian Vigel used to be for Dortmund and a lot of those guys. And certainly for the U.S., I think he's a different type of player because typically, you know, in the U.S., you've had like the attacking talent or the winger's, the wide forwards, or you've had, you know, standard forwards and maybe some central defenders. And I think other than him, I think maybe Weston McKinney was the closest who's in that sort of six to eight to ten rule. Yeah. Yeah. So why do you think you played right back over the weekend?

Oh, because they didn't really have anybody else. So they had like Lucas Klosterman, who is kind of a right back who's been playing centerback. He got hurt. And then so they had to put in Mukiela, who also can play a wingback centerback. So that's why they were, there's been a lot of, and they already are missing two of their regular centerbacks. So it's been more of an emergency. And I think because he did well against Augsburg when he came back in his first game. And that's one of the things like, nobody could really figure out his injury because.

it just seemed to be like one of those lingering ones. So I think, and it's probably like he wanted to make sure that he was 100%. And I think, I think, you know, he did not make it through the whole game on Saturday against Frankfurt. But it was mostly when, because they needed some more attacking options. And the guy who came in, Adamala Lickman, is a pure winger. And he didn't look great. He actually was the one who gave the ball away for the very late second goal. So I think like there's not.

not, like to me, you know, they have two huge games coming up against Glatbach, and then they have Bayern, of course, in a week and a half, and then they also have Frankfurt in the cup in between those two games. So he's going to get plenty of chances, and I think, like, I would bet more on that he's going to be, he's going to be a pretty regular starter. And of course, you know, he's the future, just in the sense that he's still so young. Yeah. Awesome. Let's talk about Wesson McKinney, who you mentioned briefly there. He's a lightning rod for U.S. fans. He's been a bit messy for the national team,

and we still haven't quite seen him put together an extended run of quality performances for Shalka in the midfield. I mean, he's been moved around the field a lot. And yet, he's been called on by three different coaches at a very big Bundesliga club. Help us make sense of this. Like, what kind of player is he,

and why is he relied upon by some, like so many different coaches at Shalka, what's going on? Yeah, I mean, like, McKinney is one of those guys where, like, nobody really knows what his position is, you know, because he's played, like, right back. He's played centerback at times. He's played, obviously, anywhere from number six, number eight, number 10. He's also played, like, second striker, I think, at some point at Shalka. And I probably, you know, watched all of all the Shalka games.

And they've been, until this season for, you know, David Wagner, another, you know, sort of German American who I think, uh, uh, uh, uh, has been transforming them, although they got killed by Byron this weekend. But like, Shalker are always a really weird team because, so in Germany, it's, it's the team that has the second most club members behind Bayern and the massive support. And obviously, it's right next to Dortmund and there's a huge rivalry. And like, nothing is ever normal in Gelsenkirchen. It's always a crazy sort of a crazy footballing or soccer town.

And so he's been somebody that everybody. likes because he's got great work ethic he's he's smart he understands like how to you know make the which sort of pressing movements to make he's he can cover a lot of ground and he's still he's very decent with the ball just in terms of going forward you know like he's a guy who can who can get out of trouble when he's pressed he's a guy who can yeah like obviously I don't like the greatest asset for him is necessarily the attacking stuff I think he does have those the odd really really weird interesting run but he's not someone who you, you know, like he's not someone who,

that's why you have him, but he's someone who you want to have on the field. And I think this season, it's been a little bit of the injury stuff and because they play this 442 diamond a lot. And they have a Spanish guy who used to be at Real Madrid or Mascarei as the bottom.

And they have Amina Rit, who's been kind of the standout at the top of the diamond. And they have Sue at Serdar, who's been so good that he made the German national team. And then Kali Jury, who just runs like crazy. So in that sense, like he's somewhere in that mix, but because of the injuries and because the squad has been doing so well,

it's not been that easy. So that's why he played like, I think, makeshift centerback at times. He played like second striker. But it was more like last season when he was under Tedesco. And that team was a disaster. I got a chance to, I was at the, probably the only highlight of their season, which is, you know, so this season,

they already have more points than they do last season. Yeah. And when I was at the highlight of their season last season was beating Dortmund, obviously, in Dortmund. And I think I think actually, from where I remember, he played well in that one. But, yeah, it's really tough with him because we, he's very well-liked.

I think, you know, just overall in the, I think, I don't know about US men's national teams fans, you're saying that there's some division of opinion. But in Germany, certainly he's somebody that people like a lot and he gets along with teammates. There's some good videos on social media of him sort of having fun with a lot of the players. And he's a good, good interview. I've had some people to talk to him that I know. So he's somebody that I think has a pretty good future. I don't know if you want me to talk about his ceiling or whatnot, but... Well, sure, I do. I should say, I should clarify that. I don't think there's any division of opinion

about his personality in the U.S. Just into the performances. Yeah, right. He, he's had some pretty high-profile giveaways. It seems like every time he plays for the national team, there are three or four moments that really stick out in a negative way, you know? And I think that can be true of his Shalka performances, too. But then, you know, like he said, he does, he does have that ability to get out of a tough situation.

I mean, he can find quick solutions that are, like, maybe carrying the ball, you know, 40 yards, which he does sometimes he looks he looks a little out of his depth when he gets towards the box but you know he can like I don't know in a moment of transition he'll hit a pass that spring somebody you know in a way that I don't even think

like Tyler Adams necessarily has those ideas always so I don't know that's my that's my thought yeah like to me Adams is a much more composed passer McKinney to me is a better sort of work rate like pressing and I think that that's like in that sense you know That's one of the reasons, like, what German coaches are looking for,

and let's say an American player, is the sort of required aggressiveness, the required work rate in defense. And we'll get to some of the players that don't have that. And that's why they run into some trouble. But, you know, keep in mind, like, he's 20, right? And he's been, this is the third Bundesliga season. And that's in itself. And Shalke, you know, now there's a very good chance.

They're going to be in Europe again next season. So, I mean, he's somebody that I think is certainly, at least the, like, I think he could be, like, I think if he wasn't on Shalka, he would definitely be like a guaranteed starter on a lot of those teams. And I think most Bundesliga teams would be lucky to have him. Okay, okay. So let's talk about Josh Sargent. If you're good with that. I actually asked Greg Burrhalter yesterday about him because it seemed to me that Sargent's form has not been very good for vertebra.

Bremen Verde Bremen's been struggling a lot. Let me read you a quote from Berthelter when I asked him. I mean, he said, hey, it's a daily job. You got to grind. He already reviewed Sergeant's performance against Hoffenheim with Sergeant. So that was just three days ago. He said they haven't been creating a lot of chances, and that's difficult for a striker. But for him, it's just hanging in there, continuing to do the things that got him to that level,

continuing to think about his movement off the ball, how he's moving. in the penalty box and when he gets the opportunities making the most of them. Now, Sergeant, it's one last bit of preamble here. It's a lot rides on Sergeant's development for the USA, in my opinion, just because he's like, you know, he's kind of the one good young number nine we have.

So a lot of us watch him closely, and I wonder how optimistic we should be. Yeah, it's tough to say because, like, he burst onto the scene, right? When he, you know, obviously there's a big sort of waiting list and I think he did a smart thing by joining earlier. than he was allowed to play.

And then he had a couple goals right away. I basically barely played last season, but he did have two goals, if I'm not mistaken. And with Raymond, they just have, like, the season from hell right now because, like, they had, like, at one point they had 11 injuries. Like, and, like, nine or ten of those were starters. And they sold Max Cruza, who was their creative guy. And they had these, like, I think in the preseason,

and they had these, like, plans that Europe is the minimum, sort of reaching sort of the seventh spot. And obviously, they haven't come anywhere close to that. Yeah, right now it's, so in that context, it's obviously very difficult to be, to be, like, the one guy. And certainly it's hard, like, the expectations are not on him to be, like, 19 and carrying this team. At the same time, like, I've noticed some of the things that,

I think technique is something that he still struggles with at the time, like sort of first touch and just, sort of, you know, being able to, to sort of hold on to the ball. Like that, that's something that I've seen. And then, like, like, for example, so you have, like, some data to back this up. Like, they have, um, FB. Ref, which is kind of like the baseball reference, basketball reference, the football version of that, the soccer version of that. So they have the short passes.

And it's just like, this is like, you know, passes that are fewer than five yards. And he's, like, five for 17, which is, you know, super small sample size. but it's typically those are the passes when you're under pressure. And that's, that's, it's not like a great rate. And I think like everywhere else, he kind of does okay.

But I think when there's some pressure on him, when he needs to take like a good touch or make the right pass, that's where I think sometimes his technique can be better. But I agree with you and Greg Burrhalter in terms of like the off the ball movement. I think those things are fine. You do? Okay. Yeah.

I don't think like, I think that was some of the things that, you know, at the under 17 level. That's some of the things that I think people, people who scouted him and watched them closer, that's what they were happy with. And, you know, it's that he, like,

I think the one thing on his game is that he doesn't take a lot of shots. Like, he's not one of those who's going to put up, like, six shots in a game. You know, I think he's at, like, 1.7 per match. And if you are, like, that classic number nine, ideally, you want to get that in the three range for sure. And again, like, this is hard to say because sometimes, you know, this is down to Brayman. who have struggled because of, you know, losing cruz and just a variety of injuries and

they've had to play more defensively, of course. But, you know, he's, he's had these games where, you know, he doesn't, like, even the last two games, he didn't register a shot. He didn't, you know, so, so there's, you know, although, like, it's, that game was horrible. That game was horrible to watch the Hoffa. Yeah, that was not, yeah, that was not great. And I watched their Dissodorf matches as well. And yeah, it's been, it's been a lot of those horrible. game. So I think like it's it's probably the hardest thing to have as any players to be on a team that's not only like a bad team, but the team that's performing badly. And you have to be the one who's, you know, turning that around. I think at any level, like that's a very hard thing to ask. And if you're

a 19 year old, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, because then like certainly it wouldn't be like he would be a guy who I would assume would stay and then I think would definitely like be asked upon a lot more at the at the at the the two league but I think like a good comparison is they had a guy named Johannes Egyzstein who his brother is Maximilian who's basically one of the co-captains and yeah steggastine at Bremen was at like an awesome like under 17 like top scorer and whatnot and and he doesn't play basically because they're not and he's 21 so he's not he's a couple of years older than than sergeant but he was a he was a huge huge you know star for for even Germany so he was a guy who who they thought okay this is going to be the next sort of you know like he had these amazing like 10 goals in like 18 matches for the under 17 team and he just progressed to the youth ranks and he's a guy who they thought okay this guy is going to be the next next big star and he doesn't play anymore and and they say well because because he doesn't

So it's like, it's very, very hard. I think it's the hardest thing in soccer is assessing the development from getting there and becoming a player and making that like being a, what what Sergeant essentially used to be is the sort of the impact sub. And I think it's still unclear that he has, because he's played basically eight games. So about, about half of them maybe. So he's still somewhere in that, in that range where he's, he's not quite a starter, you know, but but he's also a little bit more than the sort of impact. up and he and he has been starting a fair number of games. It's just, you know, I like I remember the goal that he had. I want to say it was against Augsburg. That was really nice. That sort of fluky kind of chip. But that's the one where I remember one highlight. But other than that, like I don't, you know,

in terms of if you look at advanced numbers, he basically doesn't have any other game that's over like 0.3, he expected goals. Because he doesn't really take a lot of shots. And, you know, the one shot, one game where he had three shots was the Dortmund one, but every other game, it's one shot. shot, one shot, two shots. So he's a guy that, again, like, it could be just because of the team that he's on. Yeah, it's probably a combination of that. And, I mean, I think my opinion is that his movement is not good enough, you know. He's not, he's not hungry enough and not active enough and dragging centerbacks around.

I do think he's not quick enough for sure. I think that could be another thing. Like, I haven't, because there's been, I think it was, it might have been in that Dortmund game where I do remember him sort of like, having a step on guys or two steps and then just people catching him yeah he's not like a he's not a page merchant yeah i don't yeah i don't yeah that would be so that that would be like a thing but yeah i mean yeah it's really hard to it's really hard to hard to judge because just because of brayman really have the the season from hell but like the the plus side is that i think there's only been two times that where he was on the match day squad but didn't play so so he's definitely

like in in that in that conversation and you know i think i think rachitza who's who's his teammate. He's the guy who is a very, very good chance of him leaving, certainly if they get relegated. But even, I think even if they don't, so I think there's going to be a lot more playing time for Sargent. Yeah. Do you think Kofeld's going to survive this season? I don't know. It's really hard because he was the top candidate for Dortmund, just because like he has the same agent as a lot of the guys who usually end up at Dortmund. And he was the guy who, you know, the next sort of Nagelzman to Desco. And how it's going to be hard because I still don't think like he's doing a horrible job, but at the same time, you're getting relegated,

so he can't be doing anything, right? Right? But they also have like a weird team because like he's always saying that we need to be able to counterpress. We need to be able to like attack because we can't really defend. We don't have those individual defenders. And certainly you don't have it when everybody's hurt and you have to bring in like guys from the third tier and the fourth tier. At one point they had like seven defenders out.

So it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard. And, like, they're goalkeepers. Like, he's on, he's like nine goals under his post-shot XG. So, so that's not helping either. Hmm. Let's move on to, let's move on to Giovanni Raina. Made his debut for Dortmund in the first match day since the break.

And then, and then played again very briefly over the past weekend. The thing is, his breakthrough has happened to coincide with Erling Hollins. Yeah, it's tough one. Yeah. Absolute explosion onto the scene. But, you know, for us, it's still a really big deal to, have a 17-year-old getting on the field at the Westphalenstadion. What's your read on Raina?

How good do you think he is? And what does Dorman think of him? Oh, so the Dorman thing is interesting because Lucian Favre is like in love with Gio Raina. He was, and I think everybody who I've talked to, there's a couple of journalists who attended the training camp with him. And everybody basically had the opinion that Gio Raina is the big winner of the training camp. And that's why he has been made a full member of the training camp. of the first team now.

So he doesn't, that I assume that it means that he doesn't get to go down to the under 19s, which is huge for that, at that level. And, you know, everything that I've seen of him, like I watched him a little bit closely as sort of was preparing for

this show. And in the two games that I think, particularly the Augsbrook game, when he came on, it was easy to notice that, like, he can use his body really well. He reads the game quickly.

And he has that, like, one touch, sort of, you know, passing out of the half-space to the winger, and it doesn't look out of place at all. Like, he's a guy that, I think, like, this might be hyperbole, and forgive me, but, like, it was two years ago late January when I was in Berlin, and it was a very drab, Dortmund game against Herzegn in Berlin, and the one guy that we noticed, the Jaden Sancho, who, I think

it was one of his first starts, because he didn't play much in the fall, fall season. And then, you know, basically, Dortmund had that plan to just. skip the ball to Jaden Sancho and let him dribble. And then obviously, I'm not saying like Gio Raina is going to be Jaden Sancho, but for a 17-year-old to be getting the chances at Dortmund and even just as like a, you know, just as like an impact guy as a sub, that that's already huge because there's a, I think, like a 90-some percent chance that Sancho is leaving this summer. Yeah, I was just going to ask that.

It's 90% chance? I would say, yeah, I would say it's pretty high, especially with now that he's turned his season around and I think you know just because it's after the euros and I think I think I think it's he's more or less gone and they they are fairly happy with letting Jacob brun Larsson who was Pulisik's teammate basically all the way through and he's a guy who hasn't necessarily progressed and somebody who's much more limited and I think the plan is to to have reina like I don't know necessarily to start but but certainly to be a member of the you know, that core of white forwards, wingers.

I don't know. Like, I don't know enough about his game in terms of whether he is capable of playing, like, not just outside, but playing more like a false nine or something like that. I don't know if you know. It's a subject of great debate among U.S. soccer nerds. My sense is he's more, he's more of a winger. I don't see him as like a visionary passer. But plenty of people disagree with me on that.

Yeah, I like his size. I mean, certainly that's the one. one thing that stood out for me is like just to just be like you know not not like the tiny winger like like some of the other so who was that who has that left-footed Ukrainian oh yeah yeah reminds me like that yeah that's a sore subject in in Dortmund he was not he was not somebody who you know hopefully rey had his moments yeah well not hopefully reina has better better defensive instincts because uh yarmelenko's were non-existent yeah so um that's that's a That's a good report.

So let's go to John Brooks. I feel like we kind of know who he is, but he didn't play over the weekend and you have a little bit of news about. Yeah, it's interesting because, like, I was, I was, I've been impressed with John Anthony Brooks mostly the last season when he was under Bruno Labadilla. He played sort of kind of ball playing centerback and he did that. Like, I liked his passing a lot in that sense. And I think under Oliver Gossner, who's their new coach who, who.

is a guy who was in Austria with Linz and really, really interested in pressing high and playing, they were playing sort of a three, five, two, and he played a lot there. And now, because Wolfburg had really struggled to score goals, they tried to play with a four-three-three. And what's interesting is that they've had a horrible run, basically, like, they were unbeaten their first nine games, and they've basically just been horrible since then. And one of the reasons is because they still can't score, but they now have trouble keeping the ball out. And I think Brooks actually has been the loser of particularly the Kulun game, which was last weekend, where they had a bunch of chances early. And it wasn't really his fault. And then they

basically conceded three times to a Kohn team that everybody, well, I mean, they're kind of trying to get away from relegation. And he was, so that's why he was left out this weekend against Hertha, which is, which is doubly tough because that's his club, right? That's the club that he came from. And they actually were, like, leading that game and ended up, Hertha ended up kind of stealing the game, as a good friend Matt Herrmann was pointing out on top of football. But, so, so it's weird. And now, Glasner, the coach was saying that he's saying basically like, everybody knows why he didn't play, which is, which is not great, you know, like, that typically means that he's he's unhappy and he said at the press conference that like i i wasn't i wasn't

really happy with the people who played centerback um they since they changed the four in the back they really only were able to keep a clean sheet once and that was when they played in a kind of a meaningless um um uf a europea europe league thing against san an n and that's when they had uh john Jonathan Brooks didn't play in that game. And now, like, the worst news for him is that they're actually signed a really promising Zaltzburg center by Pongmarian, Marine Pongrachich, who everybody thinks, like, he's had some injuries, but, like, he's a guy who has a huge ceiling. And they already have, you know, Robin Knoche, they've got Tissaron, they've got Jeffrey Bruma.

So it's a pretty crowded thing. And I think kicker is the, the, the German sort of Bible of football or soccer. And they're saying that there's a very good chance that Brooks is going to be on the bench. And then like, then Pung Reschich is very likely to start. And so what I'm saying is a convoluted way of there might be some problems for him in terms of playing time. Not good, not good, but good to know about.

Sticking with. Well, go ahead. Go ahead. I was just trying to figure out in terms of, you know, he's a guy that, you know, has been there and, you know, he does have another two years on his contract. So it might be, it might be something for him in the summer where, because if he, you know, they decide that, like, I don't think they're going to get rid of the coach because he's a guy that they think of very highly. So it might be a time where you could see him end up on another team, although I don't want to, I don't want to speculate. But I think, you know, that, that, that, that tends to be the solution when, you know, when, you know, because it's, because, like, basically, like, their season is not really going anywhere at this point. Like, uh, they're, you know, like, they're a tent, but, but they're,

I think there are, their chances of, uh, making the Europa League are, I would say, fairly, fairly limited at this point just because of the teams that they have in front of them and, and whatnot. So I don't know, like, it's a tough thing for, for Jonathan Bruce, but I think I really like your definition of, like, he, he, John Anthony Brooks is who we, who we thought he was to quote tennis green yeah well the thing is he's kind of an enigma for for the u.s because he's he's hurt so often you know yeah so he he was not he was not a part of the of most of the qualifying campaign that we the failed one in 2016 and 2017 so so he you know we can't we can't really count on him anyway so it's not like a huge i don't know it's not a huge

if he's if he's having trouble in his career but you know you like to see him like to see him starting every week if he can stay healthy yeah well he had that one moment in the world cup right that that's that's that's basically going to be the legacy yeah no that's that's that was big for sure for sure huge um let's stick with wolfsburg ullianas uh is a player that i'm really interested in and i think a lot of a lot of us are because he's kind of a pure wing attacker that there aren't too many of in the american pool there aren't too many of them period, you know. Are you following him? He's still a place for the U-19s? Does he have any chance of breaking through with Glossner? Yeah, I mean, I'm following him on social media for sure, but

I do follow just sort of statistics, and he does have 10 goals and 11 games, which is, which is actually a very, very nice return on the under 19. Because under 19, the Munisdegal level, especially the one that they're in, they're in the north-northeastern division there. It's a pretty tough one because that's where they have Herta, Verde Bremen, who are actually the two teams that are above them. And then they've got Hamburg, who are traditionally very strong and under 19-19 level at Leipzig. Kiel, which I think is also, Kiel has a great program.

I've got a friend who's working with them, so maybe we can tell you more about him. I think I think if they have, I'm sure they will play each other there. But yeah, he's a guy, like to answer your question about, whether he's going to play this season. I think if there were plans to play him, he would have been brought up for sure. Because I think there's a couple of guys like I want to say John Yaboah, who's, I think, not related to Tony Yaboa, but he's a guy who's been there, who's been kind of moving up and down.

The only way I could see it if, like, you know, like they're locked into, you know, the 8, 9, 10, 12, 13th place, whatever they are, and the season's gone. and then they could try of, you know, give some chances. But yeah, I think because of, like, even John Yaboa, who was basically their sort of standout player, I think they actually ended up sending him out to Venlo, to Holland. So he's a guy who was very strong for them. So I would say, like, this season, I would tell you, like,

other than maybe, like, one or two things, but I don't, I want it to do, like, sort of weird, strange appearance if like for example a lot of people get hurt but but they've struggled like that that's been their big problem with volsburg is there they're wide their wide players and even vicorses are big center forward he's he's he's struggled he's like without a goal for like 500 minutes and then the other guys that they have like breckalo who's an eternal sort of talent and some of the other guys so so certainly could have given him a chance but i think i think if they were thinking that way they would have probably made him a member of the first team or at least like um i don't actually

I don't actually know if he went to training camp with them. No, he didn't. Because he's with the U.S. He's with the national team. Oh, okay. So yeah, then I think, I think probably now. Yeah, right. Maybe a late season debut if the season, if it's like a dead rubber.

But otherwise. Yeah, I mean, I really like him. And he's also 18. So, so that's my other thing. And I think we're going to get into that discussion when we only talk about some of the other guys on this. But, but like, of how old you, like, where you should be playing and how old you are. And obviously, like, I'm not saying. that just in terms of sort of an age discrimination thing, but that that 18 year old or 19 year old,

and if you're playing at the under 19 level, that's about right. But a lot of teams, like Hertha, who are always really good at the 19, like they've got 16, 17-year-olds mostly playing for the, you know, for the U-19 team. So actually those U-19 teams often will have guys who are 16, 17. And if you're like, this is not Ulianez because he's been really good, but I'm just saying like some of the other guys like Sebastian Soto or some of the other guys who are, Like if you're 19 and you're still playing the under 19 Bundesliga, and then you don't go to the first team and you get sent to like the second team, it's going to be very, very hard for you to make it back or to be like,

I'm not saying it's impossible, but there's a greater likelihood that you're, you're not going to make it in the Moose Liga. Okay. So hopefully you go, Yanez either goes on loan or becomes part of the first team in, in 2020, 21. It certainly could happen in the summer. I mean, who knows because, you know, I, I don't, I think he came later and I don't know.

So, yeah, that's certainly a possibility. Okay, let's go quickly through the last few here, because we both got to get going. Chris Richards, high potential centerback, right back slash right back for Byron 2. Basically, I have the same questions about him that I had about Janice. What's his, he's not going to start at centerback for Byron anytime soon, right? Well, yeah, I mean, their history of like bringing younger centerbacks has not been great, like particularly, you know, the history of progressing younger guys has been questionable to say the least.

And like Lars Lucas Mai, who was a really big prospect and I think a couple of times say that Guardiola, he's still waiting. Like it's been like three or four years and he doesn't get a chance. And from what I understand, like I was talking to, I was reading something that Justin Kraft, who is a blogger, is really, really good Bayern author and a guy who should follow on Twitter. he was writing he actually did a post on miyasan rote d a in german where he's talking about the the Bayern amateur team or the because their team is actually in the third division they were they were promoted yeah which which is which is interesting because you know they can't they can't actually go any higher you're you're not allowed to have two teams and they have to be a division apart or league apart so he was saying that he watched a bunch of chris richards and he was saying that he gets a lot of

hype, but he's a fairly limited player in terms of offensively. You know, he doesn't really influence the game. And defensively, he's kind of solid, but will sometimes make a mistake. And like, he's made some progress. He's gotten better at some of the stuff, but like he doesn't really, doesn't really work that well. I mean, I watched them a couple times. I think I watched them in the preseason game in the one that they ended up losing to

to Nuremberg at 5-2 and and he he made a few mistakes and that was well they were they were tied with the first team and then like at half time they subbed in all the younger guys and they got beaten 5-2 um which is which is which is not great and and he was the one like who really he also struggled so i think long story short i i really don't see him uh making it and it's and it's like this is i think it's not it's partly a knock on him but it's also a partly because of Byron. You mean making it to the Byron first? Yeah, making it by.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He could certainly go out and loan and certainly, like, play, you know, I mean, we know he can play the third division. He could probably, you know, you would think that you could play in second division because, you know, you don't have to be like a Super Bowl playing guy to play in the second division. I just think, like, he's, you know, they probably saw the potential, the, the athleticism and all those things.

And, but I don't know. I find it hard for him to be a Bayern first team player. And that's, again, a little bit of a knock on him, but also just because Byron does really promote from within. Yeah, so let's look at the case of Lars Lucas Mai. Why has he not been sent out on loan? Like, he's just sitting there, he's just sitting there simmering at Byron 2. Is that what's going to be in Chris Richards' future, too?

It's possible. I mean, because if they are going to, because I think, like, there's a huge gap between playing in the regional leagues, the fourth division, because those are technically amateurs. and the third division in the Munsterga, those are professional players. So, yeah, it's actually a much better league to play in. So I think that's not, in that sense, Bayern are lucky because you are playing, at least in decent stadiums.

Like, there's actually, like, they played the KFC Urdingen this weekend, which is a really fun team that has like Kevin Grosskoyitz and Jan Schlaudraff and, like, all these guys that were like the early 2010 sort of, you know, fairly well-known players because they've got a lot of. a lot of investor money. But they actually beat this team with a bunch of the kids. But they were, they just sent out a couple guys to, to William Tuarez, sent out Kwasi Rit, who is their, who is their big scorer, who's kind of older.

And obviously, Byron actually have been, have been, it's weird. Like, they actually were forced to bring up a lot of those guys like Sarpreet Singh or Jars Dierze, who you saw actually to score a couple goals in the Bundesliga, just because they don't have any bodies. Their first team squad is, uh, is so, so. so so thin. So I, you know, Richards actually, you know,

did, I think, did go to the training camp and, and, but mostly because they didn't have enough bodies. I just think it's, it's just kind of, like, Bayern are always going to be that team who are going to be like, we're just going to buy a centerback. And, you know,

now they bought, they got Zula for free. They bought Pavar and Lucas Hernandez. So, and then Alaba is playing centerback. So, and then you've still got Boatang, so who's probably leaving.

But that's already four or five guys, and Martinez played some centerback. So I think just like that's actually like a big topic in Bayern sort of fandom of Lars Lucas Mai. And he's a guy who everybody really likes because he looks amazing in preseason. And, you know, he usually is a guy who played a contig cardio or not. But he's just, you know, and he's, I think, a much, much bigger talent. And if he can't get in, it's hard for Richards. Yeah. Well, hopefully he goes on loan.

I would agree that offensively he's not, he's not that. influential. Like, he doesn't make the line breaking passes or, you know, his, like, his big switch isn't, like, something to behold. But defensively, he is, I think he is pretty remarkable in his, like, anticipation. I even watched the performance against Erdingen from the weekend. Oh, okay. And, you know, he just dominated.

He just dominated the guys he was marking for the most part, for the most part. Let's say, let's see. Hanover, real quick. Hanover's a club where a lot of Americans have played historically, but then we've had like Bobby Wood, you know, he's sort of had a disastrous run everywhere he's been, but also Chris Gloucester escaped, fled from Hanover, went to PSV Einhoven and Hollande.

Sebastian Sotom was having this weird situation where he's, I mean, he may not even be, you know, who knows, he may not even be up to the level of two Bundesliga, we don't really know, but he's had like contract dispute with the club. So I guess we'll see if he's, in the picture later today against Jan Regensburg. That's Hanover's first game of the second half of the season. But is it just a bad club to go to if you're a young player?

Sure. It certainly is because that's like the club that is in the biggest crisis. I think for a long time. They did hire Thomas Dole like last year ago yesterday. I think we had some fun on Twitter with Hanover Twitter is an underrated fun Twitter. There's really, really funny guys and self-deprecate. in humor at its best. But it's a team that, you know, they've since had a couple managers, and Mirko Slomka came back, and now he's been gone, and now there's Kenan Kochak. The management just got fired, or the sporting director, a week ago. And there's Martin Kint, who is the champion

of the abolition of 50 plus one. So that's a team that's really, really in a mess. And so Sebastian Soto is interesting because there's been some news about him, and he's basically not, I think he's played like four minutes, and then the Vita Munnest Liga. And in the... In the regional league, he played like two matches maybe. And I was reading after the preseason match, his coach was saying that if he plays like he did today, he has no chance. He needs to work more against the ball, be more aggressive. And I'm reading that and I'm like, well, that's harsh because you do criticize players in Germany and the media. But if you say it's something like that, that's a very, very serious problem.

And it's funny because his under 19 coach is the guy, Stepan. Schmidt to, if like any of you guys have ever watched the trainer documentary, which is the Alyosha Pousa, it's on Netflix. I highly, highly recommend it. It's pretty long, but it's got like, you know, a lot of these guys like, like, like, Yergen Klopp is in there for a little bit. A lot of other other, other family. It basically just follows the career of German coaches.

It's called trainer. And so he's a guy there. So, so, and like, if he doesn't trust him to play at the 119 or the or the, or the, Adon 19 or the Reginaldiga later on. And if he's got these problems and if you're like a striker, particularly if you're playing in a lower division and you're not doing the defensive stuff, it's going to be very hard for a lot of those coaches to play you. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Well, I think we got to go, man. But you wanted to talk a little bit about Timmy Chandler. And I know there's a portion of our listenership who will be thrilled to hear about Timmy. Can you say, you know, he's been playing well lately for I'm trying? Yeah. What's up with him? He's sort of the big winner of now the last couple of games because they were playing

with three defenders and the wingbacks. And he was a guy who wasn't playing in that system. And then they changed because they had a horrible, ever since they beat Byron, they had a horrible run of losing like six out of seven games. And then he switched to four in the back and he played sort of the right midfield. And he's basically like been playing as a midfielder who attacks, like almost as a right winger, and he scored the really, really nice, like Cristiano Ronaldo kind of header against Haufenheim.

And then he played well against Leipzig as well. So he's a guy that I was surprised by because, like, I've watched him a bunch of times live that actually chatted him once or twice. And he's a guy who really doesn't seem like super impressive in terms of the player he is, but he always gets the job done. And I was like, oh, he's going to make a comeback after another injury. and especially when they have Eric Dorm, who you might remember from the World Cup, apparently, he was on the World Cup roster in Dortmund, and then Danny Dacosta, who's

the stand-up player. And now he's starting over both of them. So that's a pretty nice development. So I'm actually pretty happy for him. Yeah, cool. I mean, it'll be, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, I feel like he would have to, he would have to be, you know, all world to get back into the U.S. men's national team.

Yeah, I think that's sort of gone now, right? Maybe. I don't know. And I guess I don't even know if Timmy really cares, you know? Does he want to be in the national team? Maybe not. Who knows? Yeah, it's hard to say.

I mean, yeah, he's, I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to say. There's a lot of other names we could talk about. Nick Titagui, Zach Stephan, Julian Green, Fabian Johnson, Yergen Klinsman himself, but we got to go. We got to go. All right.

Thanks for doing this, Abel. I'll put your contact info in the show notes, but how do people find you? Can you say that real quick? Yeah, I guess the easiest is Twitter, which is at BundysPL. So that's probably the easiest one. And I have the newsletter, which is on substack.

It's called the Bundesliga bulletin. And that's also in my bio. So you can just find it there. Yeah. I'll put in a word. I mean, I'm not a subscriber. I have to admit, but I have looked at some of the samples. And it's like, this is legit stuff.

It's really like tons of screenshots. Yeah, I try. Analysis. Yeah. So anyway, thanks. Thanks so much, man. And have a good rest of your week. Thanks so much.

Thank you.