Scuffed | USMNT, World Cup, Yanks Abroad, futbol in America - Episode 136: Nine young Americans worth watching in USL

Episode Date: August 19, 2020

The busiest domestic league right now is the United Soccer League, the USL. Matt Hartman (@MattSHartman) joins the pod to discuss nine young Americans honing their craft in the league, and the still-unanswered questions about what the pathway to a higher level might look like for several of them.Jonathan Gómez, 16, LB, Louisville CityJose Gallegos, 18, AM/winger, San Antonio FCAndrew Carleton, 20, AM, Indy ElevenCaden Clark, 17, AM, NY Red BullsHayden Sargis, 18, CB Sacramento RepublicJustin Che, 16, CB, North Texas SCMauricio Cuevas, 17, RB/LB, LA Galaxy II Paxten Aaronson, 16, AM, Philadelphia Union IIBeni Redzic, 17, LW, North Texas SC Skip the ads! Subscribe to Scuffed on Patreon and get all episodes ad-free, plus any bonus episodes. Patrons at $5 a month or more also get access to Clip Notes, a video of key moments on the field we discuss on the show, plus all patrons get access to our private Discord server, live call-in shows, and the full catalog of historic recaps we've made: https://www.patreon.com/scuffedAlso, check out Boots on the Ground, our USWNT-focused spinoff podcast headed up by Tara and Vince. They are cooking over there, you can listen here: https://boots-on-the-ground.simplecast.comAnd check out our MERCH, baby. We have better stuff than you might think: https://www.scuffedhq.com/store Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the Scufft podcast. I'm Adam Bells in Minneapolis. With me is Greg Velasquez in Des Moines. We talk about U.S. men's soccer. Thanks for downloading this episode of Scuff. The most active domestic league right now is the United Soccer League, the U.S.L. And there are several exciting prospects playing in small stadiums around the country right now in front of small crowds. This past weekend was particularly interesting for me because we saw starts and strong performances from several of these young Americans. I have Matt Hartman on the phone. I don't know anybody who covers the waterfront of American prospects in USL as thoroughly he watches a lot of the games all the way through.

Matt, how you doing, man? I'm doing well, Bells. It's always a pleasure to be on the SCuff podcast. Yeah, thank you for your service. Appreciate it. So just before we get into the players, and I think we're going to do nine, so nine young Americans worth watching in USL right now,

A couple questions I thought we should take a swing at, or more precisely you should take a swing at. Sure. Is USL a good place for our prospects? For the most part, yeah, I think so. For like the 16 to 18-year-old prospects that we're talking about here, I think the most important thing is that they're playing challenging competitive games. And for all but our very best prospects, the USL will offer some level of challenge. the competitiveness of the league is a little bit more up in the air especially these days but at the end of the day the USL is a better option than the alternatives right now yeah i mean i guess the alternatives would be playing in the academy the development academy or going to europe and playing in the academy i suppose right and i mean those options aren't even necessarily there yeah they're at the moment given the state of things and the country.

You're talking about the virus, the pandemic. Oh, you've heard of it? Well, a little bit, yeah. So do you think this USL season has been less competitive than in previous years? Well, if the USL season ended today, there wouldn't be a single MLS two team advancing to the USL playoffs. And I think that speaks to a growing divide in the USL between those MLS two teams. and the standalone USL sides. It's not anything new, of course,

but with no high-level youth soccer taking place and COVID-limiting player mobility between MLS and USL, the MLS teams are more incentivized than ever than to throw their best academy players into USL, and it's led to some truly lopsided soccer. In an ideal world, a USL team would be like a mix of, you know, the 20-something guys who aren't good enough, for MLS and the best teenagers in the country,

but in reality, especially this year, it's been largely one or the other. Would you agree that the best soccer being played in USL right now is at independent clubs? Oh, yeah, for sure. And I like that setup. I mean, the first three players we're going to talk about are all playing at independent clubs on teams

with a bunch of 20-somethings who are, as they say, grown-ass men. Right. But maybe not good enough for MLS right now. And they're all, like, so Louisville City, San Antonio FC, and the Indy 11 are all playing, in my opinion, pretty appealing soccer, you know? I mean, it's not, it's not Man City or anything, but it's not horrible to watch. Right, yeah, I totally agree.

Particularly the two, the two northern ones, Louisville City and India 11. So I like that setup. I like it when you have like a good prospect slot it in with a bunch of, I guess you could call them veterans. And that's where I think that's where the energy for this podcast episode is going to be with those players.

I don't know if the MLS2 format really, I don't know if I like it that much long term. I mean, Tacoma Defiance, The Tacoma Defiance have really struggled with their very young roster. Philadelphia Union have struggled with an extremely young roster this year. The Red Bulls are kind of the exception. Yeah, the exception, but, I mean, they have played a very, very young team in a couple of games this year. The Pittsburgh Riverhounds have had some games against the Red Bulls and Philadelphia Union, too, which have been completely unwatchable for the

for the most part because they're just, you know, that Pittsburgh team has like a midfield of like a Jamaican international. They have like a couple of African internationals on their back line. All of the guys, all of the players are like, you know, grown ass men. It's just they're just pushing our players around. And I think that it's kind of a bloodbath. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Those teams, as much as I like to see, you know, these 16 and 17 year olds getting a chance. I do think there needs to be a little bit of a change in terms of introducing some older players into those teams, just because a lot of these games are just kind of developmentally useless if the players can't connect three passes together in the opposition half. You know, like what are we doing here? Yeah. I mean, that's the situation in Seattle right now. I think everybody was really excited with Garth Lagerway's vision for how to, you know, bring, bring players up through their system in Seattle.

But it does seem at this point that it's not a great idea to have a team with eight out of 11 players being under 18. I mean, that's a little bit of an exaggeration, but they've really struggled, and it does make you wonder how good that is for development when they're all struggling together and not getting anything done in the opponent's half. Yeah, I think that it's not very good for development.

And I think I'd feel comfortable saying that based on, you know, if nothing else, the progress that those Tacoma players or the lack of progress that a lot of them have made over the last year and a half. Yeah, players like Marlon Vargas, you and I were, I think it's fair to say you and I were kind of excited about him two years ago. Yeah, maybe more than you. You drafted him for your, for your 2026, U23 draft that we did. I mean, in fairness, it was like round 57 by the time.

Yeah, but him, even Ocampo Chavez, you know, players like Diaz, Alec Diaz, you know, they're basically the same players that they were this time last year, as far as I can tell. Yeah. And so they will not be in our top nine here, unfortunately, even though we wish them all the best. Here's the key question. Is there a pathway to Europe from an independent USL club?

Excuse me? No, there isn't. We've seen Orange County and in the past, it seems like the New York Cosmo serve as a sort of pit stop for players between MLS and a European club. But in most of those cases, if not all of them, the transfer was basically complete before the player even arrived in USL. And it was more of a training stint than a player ever actually playing for a USL club. But yeah, it's an important development that needs to happen because there are more prospect. than ever that are looking for a path to top flight soccer who, you know, want to either want to test themselves in Europe or have roadblocks in the way of an MLS

homegrown contract. And theoretically, as is the case in a lot of the rest of the world, the second division should be a solution to that problem. Yeah. It's a, it's a subject that deserves further exploration. And I don't know that we, we are exactly the best people to get into it but um you know jeff reuter consider this a charge to you jeff roiter of the athletic to really dig in on this and and give us a sense of when we're going to have this watershed moment which i think we're both hoping for where you can go to a club like san antonio or louisville and get picked up by a club in europe for a fee that makes it worth the while of the us l club you know i think that's the key thing Is a European club willing to pay $500,000 for a player like Jonathan Gomez or Jose Gallegos?

Yeah. We have no track record of that. We don't. And for the sake of those two players, more so Gallegos because he's a little older, you have to hope that the watershed moment starts with one of these guys. because, you know, these are some really good prospects we're going to talk about and be a shame for them to be in USL a year or two from now. Yeah. Okay, Jeff. The ball's in your court, bro.

Let's get after it. Let's start with, so the number one young American to watch in USL. I think we're both in agreement on this is who? It's Jonathan Gomez, the 16-year-old left back for Louisville City. Yeah, I think so too. I think partly because of the position he plays, but partly because of the maturity of his game. Right. Do you want to take a crack at describing him or you want me to do it?

I got you. So I think Gomez is basically everything you want in a modern fullback prospect. He can dribble past players in the 1v1 with relative ease. He's ultra comfortable with the ball at his feet. and probably already the best fullback in USL at progressing play. He's got really quick feet, excellent in combination. Defensively, his technique is top-notch, even if he doesn't necessarily have the athletic ability yet as a 16-year-old

to stay with players off the dribble, stays really light on his feet and times his tackles really well. Is that basically what you see? Yeah, yeah, I would say, I would add, I would say all of that. I would add that his confidence on the ball really sticks out for his age. You know, you watch not the beat on the Tacoma kids, but the contrast between watching Gomez with the ball at his feet against grown men

and watching one of those young guys in Tacoma is really, really stark. He's good at using his body to get between a defender in the ball. He draws a lot of fouls in the game on Saturday, which he started and went 90 in a two-zero win. over Loudoun United, he drew seven fouls. So he's like an outlet. He's an outlet for beating the press and getting the ball out of the defensive half because he's so reliable on the ball.

Yeah, I mean, you've been able to see it with Gomez for years now. You know, if you were able to catch some of his games in the DA, you know that he's just a different player on the ball. It doesn't take like a really sophisticated eye for talent to, tell that Jonathan Gomez was going to be a hell of a player just because, you know, he does things with the ball at his feet. You know, there's a quickness to his play and a steadiness to him in possession that just doesn't exist in, you know, 95% of the youth player pool.

Yeah. And he does, he makes overlapping runs. He loves to make overlapping runs, eager to make overlapping runs, I would say. And so he regularly gets into dangerous areas with the ball. I would say his weaknesses are, you know, his touch can be a little bit loose. He had a couple bad giveaways in quick succession in the second half against Loudoun on Saturday, and, you know, a better team might have made him pay for those. He does, because he gets forward so much, he has the potential for getting caught up field.

That's going to be the reality for any, you know, modern attacking fullback. That's just something that has to be sort of dealt with. and yeah like you said he's not slow but he doesn't appear to possess elite speed you know yeah he's very much a 16 year old athletically and you know there there are exceptions to the rule but for the most part 16 year old children aren't going to be able to match the athletic ability of 23 year old men or whoever old the player average player in usl is yeah probably won't ever get to to a point of elite speed but i'm not too worried about about any of that.

I mean, for the most part, I think when we talk about the negatives to Gomez right now, I think we're talking about things that come with age, you know, positioning, getting back after the overlap and getting forward. His final ball maybe isn't perfect yet, especially when he doesn't find space to cut in, has to deliver across from wide areas. Yeah, I was going to mention that too. He crossed the ball by my count 11 times versus, Loudon and didn't connect on any of them.

Like that doesn't mean they were all bad balls across. It's just, you know, that the knack for picking out somebody from the byline and, and really making a defense pay for letting you get the ball in that area is, you know, that's sort of a next level step for him. Right, right. I feel pretty confident he's going to take that step, though. Yeah, absolutely. And I think from a developmental perspective, he's,

he's in a really, really good spot. You know, Louisville City, my confession is that I enjoy watching them play. And it's not just because of Gomez. They're kind of fun to watch. They can play some flowing soccer. He's in competition for minutes at left back. They have a pretty good left back in Oscar Jimenez. So he seems like he's in a really good spot.

They play again tonight at 7 o'clock, central time, that is, against Swope Park. So if you want to catch that on ESPN Plus, do it. I mean, I think that he is definitely in a really good spot right now. But I think, you know, if you're going to, if there's going to be a worry about him, it's going to be, you know, where does he go from here? Because he's not eligible to make a jump to Europe until September of next year. So, you know, September of 2021. And even then they're, you know, September birth years with Europe.

are always a little tricky with player registration, so it's entirely possible he wouldn't be able to play until 2022. And with a talent like him, unlikely to sign an MLS because of the way that, you know, the way MLS is with players coming out of those academies and the way that teams hold on to rights, I'm not sure that he's going to have much of an option, but to be playing in USL for the remaining.

of this season and then all of the next. It's not a terrible thing. Like you said, I think right now the situation he's in is great, but you have to worry a little bit about stagnation if he's able to hit, you know, the heights of what he can do in USL pretty quickly. Yeah. I mean, he's definitely leveled up from playing at North Texas last year.

I mean, it's a higher level than USL League one. Definitely. But I don't know. I guess it's hard to say. say whether two years is too much or it's it's just such a long time you know you think about where what we thought about players certain players two years from now and what they're what their club situation has been is you don't ever want a player to be locked into a non-ideal level of play for for that long you know especially for a prospect as good as he is but i guess it's just something

we're going to have to deal with there is some precedent for louisvilleville city to transfer somebody MLS. I recognize all the like logistical Byzantine obstacles to that. But Mark Anthony K. went from Louisville City to L.A.FC in 2018, I believe

the fee has never been disclosed. It was reported as a record or near record transfer fee for USL, which doesn't mean that much, as I think they pointed out to me. If it was $200,000, it might have been the record.

Right, exactly. Anyway, that's definitely something to watch and pay attention to. And if nothing else, just watch Gomez play because he's fun to watch. Should we move to number two? Yeah, let's do it. Number two is Jose Gallegos, the 18-year-old attacking midfielder slash winger at San Antonio FC. I'll take this one. Yeah, I mean, much like Gomez, his...

The thing that really sticks out is his ball security. He has a geo-rena-like ability to scoop up the ball and keep it. He gets fouled a lot, just like Gomez. He can beat people 1 v1 and easily progress the ball half the length of the field by careening past defenders and riding tackles. He can be an incisive passer in the attacking third, sort of sudden ideas that sometimes come off and sometimes don't. He weighs a through ball well,

and he likes to cut him from the left on his right foot for a shot at the top of the box. He works hard defensively as well and is a good tackler. My issues with his game are he seems a little bit unsophisticated in the attack and off the ball. And I don't know how he's going to. What do you mean by that if you don't mind me asking? I mean, he's just kind of, he's just like he's gung ho. You know, he goes out, he gets after it. Okay.

But I don't know if he's maybe he lacks a little patient. in the attack or um and then off the ball he does he just like brennan erinson to some extent especially when he's playing on the wing or in the on the at the front of san antonio's line he he doesn't get on the ball enough he does get on the ball more when he's in a deeper midfield position for sure he's pretty relying on his right foot he sometimes holds the ball too long the unsophisticatedness sometimes i guess manifests itself in He holds a, he'll take the ball and then he'll just dribble into a dead end sometimes. Yeah, that's, I have that list that is my biggest weakness for him too.

I think it could kind of like overthink the play when the best option is like a back pass or a neutral play. Yeah. Which, you know, leads to some unnecessary turnovers or that dribbling into the corner. It just can meander with the ball at his feet. And I, it's not a huge problem for me, but it's, but, you know, we're talking and we're trying to, we're trying to get down to brass tacks here. and yeah offball movement isn't always i think what it should be but when he's in the midfield he is much more active and more lively anything to add to that yeah i mean when we're talking about what makes him special i think that gaegos is with like the possible exception of

gomez is like the young player the young american in usel who has like the the sense of gravity to him and what i mean by that is that he he just pulls players on the other team to him because he just isn't a player that you can let have space on the ball. He'll just, he will make something happen. And players like that don't come along all too often that players that can disrupt defenses to the extent that Gallegos does. Great at standing up and off balancing defenders on the dribble. Very hard to tackle without fouling. So strong. So strong. Yeah. Really strong, low center of gravity. Doesn't give up on plays after losing. the ball, which is a huge pet peeve of mine.

Are you at all worried about if we're talking about translating up what if he is a little bit of a positional question mark in terms of where he goes, what position he plays at higher levels? I'm more just kind of curious than worried about it. I think he could end up being anything from an eight to a right wing in his career long term anything from eight to ten to left wing and i sort of lean towards eight because well and you know unless he unless he starts to demonstrate just like absolute goal dangerousness and i know he has it but the numbers aren't really there yet um it's his he's

just an absolute force both defensively and and in possession and you want him to get on the ball more and the games that I've watched, he's just, he has a harder time getting on the ball when he's further upfield than he does when he's sitting behind the front line.

I don't know. I don't, I don't feel strongly about it. I'm just sort of thinking out loud. Yeah, I'm not too worried about it, but it is something that I've seen brought up that he maybe doesn't fit the profile of a winger at higher levels. And like you said, the further up field he plays, the less sort of influence that he seems to have over the game.

I really like him as a 10. You know, like the job that we ask modern tens to do, I think that he could do that pretty well. You mean running around pressing and then picking up the ball or just driving right at goal? Exactly, yeah. Being a danger went off the ball, you know, being able to press and get in passing line. and then when the play turns over being able to drive forward and be goal dangerous yourself or be able to make that an incisive pass. Yeah.

Okay. I mean, he faces the same obstacles as Gomez. What is his future? What is San Antonio going to do with his contract is an open question? Yeah, right. So, I mean, first of all, he needs to be in the U20 national team. that's that's the the most near term of near term stuff whenever whenever that cycle resumes you want to see him there and then yeah he might be the guinea pig for this new era of

usl that we hope happens because you know like whatever the transfer fee is whatever it was for mark anthony k that is the record you'd like to imagine that geigos would be able to build it to break it i mean and uh you know to be honest i don't really understand why MLS hasn't moved for him. It just doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Whatever the number for San Antonio is, you know, you can't imagine that it's even seven figures, right?

Yeah, no. No, I wouldn't think so. MLS has paid so much money for so many worst players that, especially a 19-year-old American, you know. I mean, I'm looking at FC Dallas right now. And did you watch their game the other night? Francisco Hara? I did.

He was so bad. Horrible. And, you know, I mean, he's Argentinian, so of course he's going to get a 15-game run to turn it around. But, yeah, I mean, they have no ideas at all in the final third. And Gallegos is kind of a one-man solution to that problem, at least theoretically. Yeah, I don't know. for the amount of money that they've been paying for, you know, these South American talents. And, you know, especially as a team that really got a firsthand look at how good Gallegos.

I was just going to say that, man. They got a mouthful of Gallegos in April, was it? Or March? Yeah, I think it might have been March. But, yeah, it's not April. Nothing happened in April. Right. I think he was dominant in that game.

You know, you think that they would have had a. wheelbarrow for the cash ready at 90 minutes when the whistle blew for him. Yeah. It was a preseason game, to be fair, but he did. He was dominant. He embarrassed, I would say, half the starting lineup for Dallas at various moments in the game. So I don't know. Did they get Haran a free transfer or they pay a couple million for him?

I'm not sure. But anyway. He came from the league of MX, right? So it's probably a free transfer. So maybe that explains it, but they, it would be nice to see Gallegos take the next step. He does have, you know, at a certain point he needs to be dominant in USL and he's not quite there yet. But anyway, keep an eye on, keep an eye on that sort of Gomez-Gaiegos pathway to the next level. The third player we want to talk about is, believe it or not, Andrew Carlton.

Have you been watching him? I haven't watched too much of him. I watched the first game or two that Indy 11 has played since they came back, and I wasn't all too impressed with Carlton. So I know that he's kind of... He's played better in the last two weeks. So, you know, is it an anecdote? Is it data?

Who can say? But the 20-year-old Center Mid is on loan from Atlanta United to the Indie 11, which is a pretty solid side by USL championship standards. He's always been a very dangerous passer. His eye for the killer pass has been discussed on this podcast before and other places and it's been on display in recent weeks. Just on Saturday, he released teammate Tyler Pashor, I believe the leading score in USL right now in behind twice in the first 15 minutes of a 1-0 win over Pittsburgh.

both of them were sort of vintage Carlton Key passes. And he has three assists on the season already. I think all of them to Pasher, who's just like sort of a pace merchant, left-footed pace merchant for Indy 11. The pleasant thing about Carlton and why he is so high on this list right now, despite all of his sort of stagnation over the last couple of years,

is he seems to have added defensive work rate off-ball energy and intelligence and some ball security to his game since last season. That's my assessment. Especially, I would agree with you the first couple games after the break were not great for him, even though he did have his good moments. But the last two games in particular have been much better, I think. Okay, I guess I have to go find those games. But from what I saw of the first two games of the season, it was still a little bit of

of the Carlton we saw last season for Atlanta, too, where he didn't find the ball all too often. And then when he did find the ball, he'd maybe do something tricky and beat a player. But then the accuracy of that final ball was sometimes left something to be desired. Or sometimes he'd just take a pop shot from way too far out. He's never scored from outside of the box that I could ever remember.

I don't know what he was ever doing there. But yeah, you think that he's cleaned up his game in the final third a little bit from over the last couple games? Yeah, it's not so much even the final third. I mean, that too, but it's more the middle third. It's the blocking, you know, lack of a better term, the blocking and tackling of being a soccer player. Because I agree, there's, he has a penchant for uns seriousness where he'll just, he'll do something silly and give the ball away. Right. He'll take, like, the touches he does.

gets on the ball for granted you know got to make every involvement count and I think he he definitely did that on Saturday and he did it the game before that he when he's in rhythm he he plays one touch soccer very beautifully

you know he doesn't waste he doesn't waste touches he sees even even relatively what may seem benign passes like a square ball he'll hit it one time first time and then they'll be off. I saw quite a bit of that.

And there was a point in that game on Saturday where his last six involvements in a row had all been just delightful, which reminds me of that, you know, those halcyon days of him, you know, him leading the charge against Paraguay in the U-17 World Cup when everybody thought, man, he's like the 10 who was promised.

I think that that game might be the, the game I've gone back to over like the last two years more than any other game. Just like just in terms of how fun that game was to watch. And, you know, Carlton was such a large part of that. And it's really quite, quite sad. The 2019 that he had, I guess it was even a little bit of 2018. Yeah. So let's let's get into the weaknesses a little bit.

I don't think. Well, were you going to say something? Sorry. I was, yeah, I was basically going to touch on the weaknesses too. because you say that, I see that you have him listed here on our little spreadsheet as a center mid, which is, you know,

you always kind of think of, I've always kind of, you know, thought of Carlton as a 10. And when you talk about the differences between those positions, between being a center mid, you know, like an 8 or a 10, it's, you know, mostly ability to track back and make plays defensively.

And Carlton is, I think, there are, are a lot of players in the pool, a lot of high profile players that don't do a great job of that from the 10 position. And it's a lot due to lack of effort or lack of want. And I don't necessarily think that that's ever really been the case for Carlton as much as it's been just lack of ability because he's just, he just isn't a big dude. And his technique in the tackle hasn't been great. So you think that that's something that he's improved on in these last two games at the U.S.L season? I think a little bit.

You know, his body is filling out as he gets older. So he's not quite as easy to knock off the ball as he was even a year ago, I don't think. It doesn't look that way to me. So is he going to be winning 15 duels a game in the middle of the park? No. And I didn't, I just put, I put him as a center mid, not with any clear intent. I probably should have said attacking mid, you know. Okay.

But I, but I don't think he can be a professional winger. I guess that's, that's one thing I don't, I don't think is in the cards because he just, he's not going to beat anybody 1v1. He's just not quick enough, like from wide. He's not going to beat a pro fullback. So he's not fast enough to play on the wing. and not athletic or technical enough to dribble past a lot of people. I mean, he can do that in the middle of the park when he can use deception and sort of like, you know, the different options that he has in front of him

to disguise his intentions and get by somebody. But if it's just mono-imano, I don't think Carlton's going to win a lot of duels. He also has this history, which we've referenced, of inconsistency, wastefulness, and possession, going to ground easily. he's been doing that some in USL and the refs are having none of it and then not working hard defensively that's his history

not to mention the off-field problems so those weaknesses have not been as evident over the last couple weeks but we need more data to show that he's quote unquote past that past all that I guess I would say but you know at the end of the day there's not there aren't many players at any level

level in American soccer that can pass the ball with the way that Andrew Carlton can. And that's something that, you know, you hope that he figures the rest of it out because I don't think that he needs necessarily to be, to be, you know, a Brendan Aronson type of player off the ball or, you know, defensively in order to make it at a higher level just because he offers so much as a connector to that front line. line if he if he can make a career of it as a number 10 yeah he creates goal scoring chances and like he can be he can essentially be counted on to do it a couple times a game even if he has a bad game so that's that's definitely something let's go to um to number four unless you have

anything more on carlton uh yeah i'd say one more thing like what do you what do you think what ideally what does 2020 the rest of 2020 look like for Carlton? Do you think that when there may be a recall to Atlanta, you think he stays and sticks it out with Indy? You think he ever really gets on the field with Atlanta?

There's such a good you know, like regardless of how they've played under DeBore, you know, like that team has ambitions that may just be above Carlton. Yeah, I think I read he's out of contract in December. So I don't know, man, I don't know. I mean, I think there's some incentive in Atlanta to make Carlton a success.

He's a homegrown. He's a North Georgia boy. I think they would like to be able to tell that story. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know. And then the question is who wants a player like that on their team? That's why I say we need more data to show that he's past all his people. past trouble. Yeah.

I think before another MLS team would trade some gam or some wham or some wham or some tam for him. Like, or maybe all that stuff is done with now. I don't know. Anyway, Garber bucks.

So I think an MLS, another MLS franchise, would they be willing to invest in him? Today, I would say probably not. But if he can put together two more months, of what he's done in the last two weeks.

Maybe so. So let's move on to number four. And number four on our list is going to be Caden Clark, the 17-year-old attacking midfielder for the New York Red Bulls. Do you want me to take this one, Bob? I do. Yes, please. Okay. So Caden is one of the more athletically developed 16-year-olds in USL,

and he already has a frame that wouldn't look out of place in MLS. a fantastic first touch and passing vision. Mostly plays likes to play one touch soccer if the pass is on and almost always tries to lead a teammate in behind into space. He's got the name the same number of assists in USL as Carlton and in similar minutes on a significantly worse team and is definitely better at arriving in the box, late in the box to be goal dangerous.

He'd have a goal or two if he didn't go to the, the Brendan Aronson school of hitting the ball straight at goalies or defenders on the goal line from 10 yards out. Cold. Yeah. Unfortunate. But yeah, he's a player who, you know, just, just his technical ability and physical ability are fantastic for his age.

And, you know, like, I think basically everybody on the list from this point on is going to be an unfinished product. if the players before, well, at least more so than the players that we've mentioned already. And when you're thinking of what you'd like to, what you want to see in a midfield prospect, Kaden just checks so many of those boxes.

Yeah. He does look, so I haven't watched as much of them as you, but he does look more athletically developed than basically as, as athletically developed as anybody on this list and more than most people. I also notice he's kind of silky on the ball. Yeah.

Likes to be the provider to goal scorers. To me, he doesn't absolutely pop off the screen in the way some of these other players do, but he does seem good. And I know his dad is traveling to New York to help him work on his, a long list of physical capabilities. Is that so?

Yeah, there was a tweet from Mr. Clark about it. Okay. I'm sure, you know, go for it. He says, he said something like, I am, I am going to New York to help Caden Clark with his explosiveness. And da, da, da, da, da. It was like, it's very formal. What are his weaknesses? So. Besides not being able to shoot the goal, shoot the ball past the goalkeeper. Right. I think that the main thing is that right now is that he's not good enough in the 50-50.

he doesn't really commit to winning balls he takes these like little half steps before before contact instead of just you know putting putting putting a foot out to make a tackle his pass accuracy could be a little better he could probably benefit from being a little less direct you know he try he basically always tries for for that assist when the passes aren't necessarily on and i think a lot of that is him trying a little too hard to play Red Bull soccer. And, you know, like, he, when we talk, when we think, when I think about what the next, like, a year or two is going to look like for Cady Clark, I think that the club situation

isn't, isn't great because he can't move to Europe until, until next soccer. And the Red Bulls just aren't a great stylistic fit for him because he just doesn't fit into like they're the very defined 10 and eight roles that the red bull system has and you know he's just kind of a better fit for for a side that likes to hold on to possession so if he does stay at the new york red bulls he's going to be a positional question mark it's it's not clear where exactly he he fits you know but as a 17 year old i guess he could uh there is a lot of time for him to to mix things up a little bit and probably he'd probably have to move back into more of an role if he's going to play for the Red Bulls and MLS.

Okay. Red Bulls are still kind of fun to watch, though, despite all that. Kind of fun. Their game against Philadelphia was one of the better U.S.L games I've watched this season. Yeah, that game. That game was awesome. A little less fun when they play the independent USL team. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, let's move on to number five, if you're okay with that. Sure. I'll take it. Hayden Sargis, 18-year-old centerback from Sacramento Republic, signed to a contract. So this is another one of the independents signed to a contract earlier this year or late last year. I can't remember for sure. He's a left-footed centerback, calm in possession, alert to danger, well-positioned and decisive in the tackle, in my opinion. Can hit some left-footed passes, and his right foot is okay.

but he's not a plus passer and yet however he's only 18 so there's so there's time I'd say weaknesses are he's not at all dominant in the air also is perhaps slightly undersized and doesn't look blazingly fast

and his passing is only okay also he can be reckless in the tackle so I'm making it sound like he's not that good he's good he's pretty good but yeah I'm just I'm just trying to you know address the weaknesses made some late challenges on saturday and a three one win over the aforementioned tacoma defiance yanked at the half against reno the match before after a last ditch challenge that did draw yellow and should could have been red so he needs to tone that down but again he's young

he's playing a very cerebral position for a playoffs bound independent usel club uh definitely worth checking him out yeah i'd agree with all of that i think of basically all the players we're going to talk about today. Sargis is the one who looks the least like a teenager on the field. Yeah. He plays next to Thomas Hilliard Arcei, who is a two-time Pac-12 defensive player of the year and was the second overall pick in the 2018 super draft,

and I think Sargis just looks flat out better than him. So that's definitely a plus. He's confident, aggressive, good athleticism for his age. Like you said, I really like his ability to play out of the back with both feet, even if, you know, he's not hitting line-breaking passes. He's able to play the ball with his right and left to the point where I basically don't even know if he's, didn't know if he was left or right-footed until I had to look it up. But, yeah.

Yeah, he's no Leandro Paredes when it comes to playing out of the back. Right. Like, Peretis really put on a clinic yesterday for PSG and their drubbing of R.B. Leipzig in the Champions League semifinals. It's not like that. But, you know, we don't expect that. I mean, yeah, exactly. That's very much not the measuring stick for teenagers in USL.

I think that when you're looking at him, I think the weakness is, does it transfer up? You know, he does a lot of things well. Like you said, I don't think he's very good in the air. He has good athletic ability, but not top-notch athletic ability. And there's a long history of centerbacks who are good to great in USL, but have trouble handling the speed of play when they move up to Hamilless or a similar league. He gets a lot of time and space to pick out passes with Sacramento. Yeah.

That isn't going to exist if he moves to a higher-level club. And, you know, four of the five players we've talked about thus far have been at these independent clubs. And I think it kind of begs the question, what would some of these players look like if they had to play on like Red Bulls 2 or Philly Union 2? And I think that a lot of the higher that, you know, like the first three players we talked about would probably still look like amazing prospects. But I think that Sargis probably benefits a little bit by being on such a good team. and his stock it gets a little higher just because he doesn't have to deal with

you know four players are running at him unimpeded by a midfield like set like the centerbacks for Philly Union too do do yeah right and you know even if he is better than Hilliard Arcei he's you know Hilliard Arceed provides some stability

I think there he's a he has some experience in MLS is he is he on loan from the galaxy or is he he's not he left the galaxy I don't know if they released him or if he left on his own accord but he's no longer with him okay

interesting yeah so that that makes a lot of sense to me do you I think Sargis Sargis I guess we don't know how to pronounce it is he's definitely U20 eligible do you think he should be on that roster the U20 World Cup roster

I mean like I want to say that he's kind of a fringe player but in reality like that team is just not very good at centerback so I'm struggling to come up with four for centerbacks I would take over a player who's playing consistently in USL yeah I mean he's just in it's just in a really good spot getting minutes playing playing decent soccer so I think that's probably good enough to get on on the U20 team yeah I mean I guess we'll we'll need to see some footage of layasupovita and you'll find out if oh and otis oi wants to come play for the

us u.s u.s. 20s but sargis should be in the mix i guess that's how i'd put it definitely and i think he's a player we'd learn a lot about in in a youth national team camp if we were able to see him play against you know high-level players his age from other countries okay number six moving right along. Justin Che, a 16-year-old centerback slash right-back. He's playing right back right back right now for North Texas SC in League of Un. U.S.L. League 1, that is. Right. You take, you take, Cheye. Sure. Yeah, Chez been the surprise of the USL season for me thus far. He's a very young player, November 2003. He was moved from a striker, you know, a forward role. with the Dallas Academy just last year.

He started all four games for North Texas since the season restarted, started. Did they ever? I don't think that they ever played. So I guess the season started. Oh, yeah. And, you know, he's mostly played, started at centerback. He's at right back, I mean,

he's played a little center back later in the games. Yeah, he looks awesome. Definitely a centerback long term for me. just because it's his body type he is a really broad build, long legs. I think he's probably around six foot, if not six foot, and he's 16 years old.

You think he'll add a couple inches or one? I mean, you know, even one or two is probably, will be enough to play there. Very athletic, comfortable on the ball really seems to enjoy playing right back given the consistency

with which he gets forward. He gets, he's really comfortable getting forward. Right. Surprise me when I saw that after you said he was, he's definitely going to be a centerback. Yeah, as far as I know, he's never played right back for the Dallas Academy. I mean, I don't catch all their games, of course, but from the games that I've watched, he's been at centerback every time. So for him to be bombing forward like he is with, um, with North Texas is definitely surprising.

but he has the athletic ability to just beat players on the dribble, and he takes advantage of that a lot for right back. I was looking at the completed dribbles statistics in USL yesterday, and he has like seven successful dribbles, which is like really good for a right back, let alone a player who's basically only played centerback. Yeah. Yeah.

Defensively, he uses his athletic. ability to stay in front of attackers in the one v one usually waits for them to make a mistake definitely i think look may looks more comfortable defending as a centerback than as a fullback in league one um yeah yeah but he you know he's he's one of these players who should be thought of as one of the next in line to be uh to be a dallas homegrown because you know he he just has so much so much going for him. Is he Mexican-American or does he have any dual national stuff going on? I'm not sure.

I don't think he's been called up to any youth national teams. I haven't, I don't recall off the top of my head. I usually know those Dallas kids if they've been called into Mexican national team camps. But yeah. It's funny that the FC Dallas website still lists him as 5-5-100. 16 pounds. He's definitely not that. Definitely not that, right? So talk about weaknesses a little bit. His passing ability isn't, you know, plus plus. That's one of the reasons why I think you could call him a centerback long term is that, you know, he hits the ball hard, he hits a hard crisp ball

along the ground, but he doesn't have the passing ability that, of, of a hard, of, of, of a modern fullback necessarily. You know, I think that he's going to go inside and be a center, as a centerback, be able to do a job. But that's probably where his game needs to,

needs to grow the most. We talked a little bit about this earlier, but USL League one is not as good as the USL championship. And the biggest place in which that, the biggest place you notice that is in the attacking quality of the league. Like, there are just not any players. that can test an even half-decent defender on the dribble.

So he's a little bit untested in that regard. Needs to develop his left foot. He likes to use the outside of his right foot in places where he should just use his left. But yeah, you know, we're talking about a 16-year-old playing professional soccer. Yeah. It's not going to be perfect. Well, let's hope he goes to Louisville next year. Oh, Bill.

I don't know. I don't know what the right way to go is. I do think that there is something to the fact that, like, there is a homegrown log jam at FC Dallas. And if you're going to sign a homegrown contract with that team or even sign a contract with a professional contract with North Texas, you better be good at soccer because you're not, you're just not going to be able to make it through the bramble of homegrown

players that they have. Well, the problem there is that things are so sour at the top of that of that little pyramid right now. They can't score goals. They look terrible. It's funny how, like, a year ago, I would have been, I would have been willing to wash Lucci Gonzalez's car for him if he wanted me to. And now I watch him, I'm like, what is this guy doing, you know?

Yeah. So, so, yeah, there's this log jam of homegrowns, but it's not like, I mean, hopefully Reggie Cannon goes. there seems to be all these rumors that it's happening that he's going somewhere in Europe hopefully that happens to open up a little space because boy, Pomacall didn't look that good on Sunday and I mean

a bunch of these other guys aren't seeing the field right now Cervania, Serio Brian Reynolds so there's a logjam of players who aren't even playing how you can move them? I mean, we talked about this in our group chat a little bit, but their transfer strategy has just made no sense to me for the better part of the last two years. They bring in these older South American

players sometimes, you know, from league at MX. And you think it's a situation in which they're bringing them in on these like, you know, one million dollar, two million dollar transfer fees, whatever they are in order to give, you know, set a baseline for their young players to pass you know like you know when when you're good when he's is fair when thomas roberts is good enough is playing at a level similar to yara they just slot into the lineup and then you let you know you put yara out to pasture and he's like 32 33 years old or whatever but they consistently sign these players like they just keep signing 32 year old attacking players and center midfielders like there is there is no

team in all of North America who less needs to sign a South American center mid than FC Dallas. And here we are. They just brought one in. Right. I don't get it all. It's frustrating. Take all the money you spent on all of that. Bring in one DP level or two DP level players who are actually plus, you know, off the dribble or, or, you know, a fullback or a centerback. And that team is just so much better to me. I'm not sure. And like you said, Lucci. I think last year some of his players just would have run through a wall with him, and the tactics weren't necessarily there last year either. But this year, it seems like most teams have figured out that you could just sit back in a low block against them, and they're just not going to break you down.

Yeah. They did have an early chance in that game against Nashville on Sunday, where Pomacall came in on his left foot and then played a beautiful ball over the top with his right, foot for Yara to attack with his head and the header just flashed wide

there's probably at least a point three XG chance gone gone wanting but after that I don't think they created anything that was it

no and this national team isn't good either it's not like you know they played a tremendous soccer team twice right well it's frustrating

and Che, you know, Che's going to have, Che and his representatives are going to have to navigate all that. We do wish you all the best, Dan Hunt, Lucci Gonzalez,

and FC Dallas, but, you know, it's not quite the, it's not quite the honeymoon it was last year, I don't think, especially if they don't, if the, on the field results don't, it's not even the results,

it's just like the quality of the play, doesn't improve here. Should we move to number seven? Yeah, let's do it. Number seven is Maricio Cuevas, the 17-year-old, full-back for LA Galaxy 2. You want to take this one, Bells? Sure.

He's been starting at left back for Los Dos. He was a fixture on the USU-16 team that did very well at the Nike Friendlies last year. Los Dostos hasn't played since. July because of coronavirus cancellations, but they do play their first game since then later today, 5 p.m. Eastern time 4th Central. He's a right-footed player and more comfortable at right back, but it's probably fine for him to learn to defend on the left, which is what he's been doing.

I like the way he combines. I like his calmness in possession. I think he's a solid enough defender. We'll see if he's going to be in a little. elite athlete or a real threat in the attack. But for right now, he just seems like, I guess Chris Gloucester's kind of a decent comparison, though I think Quaivas is a little more, has a little more sauce and comfort and possession than Gloucester did at this age.

Yeah, QuaVos's right foot is excellent. It's better than any other of Gloucesters. Okay. Do you mean like crossing the ball or hitting a big, switch or shooting like what's he what's his right foot good at um basically all of that he's he he like he has really good close control with it on the dribble he he scored a free kick back in march in that uh that's right real grand valley game with it from the top of the box he had an assist in that same game where he he curved the ball down the line into uh the feet of dunbar was able to

it was an MLS assist not so assist before the assist pass before the assist whatever you want to call it but that pass was excellent um yeah i mean definitely a right back for me he he's played two games at left back right since since they've been back i think one at one a right back but looks more comfortable looks more comfortable in the right hand side i think they just don't have a left back yeah play there so they're and and i and like i said i think it's fine for him to learn to work on defending from that side what do you what do you see as his It'd probably be the defending. He's not a shutdown defender.

17 years old, so still has some room there, but he's still a little, a little, I don't want to say on athletic, but he's not, he doesn't have the athleticism that a lot of the other players on this list have. Yeah, probably not going to ever be like a Jonathan Gomez or searching your desk level danger going forward. Okay.

Yeah, and then, I mean, maybe his biggest weakness is that he's a galaxy player. Who knows what that path looks like for him. Yeah. Well, so he has ahead of him in the pecking order, another player, another young American, Juliana Raoho, who is not playing fullback for the galaxy. gets to play right wing sometimes and you know arraho's a better athlete probably more definitely more pro ready physically than quabas so it could be a while before that position opens up in l.A and probably if

we're honest never it's going to be never because they'll bring in some old guy from south america or whatever to play that position right yep exactly so quavis is going to have to make waves with the youth national teams and you know try to get some buzz there i suppose yeah probably a little unlikely to be a part of this u20 cycle it's just so young um as an o three he's able to play in the next cycle hope that what about gomez though what do you think what do you think gomez will break break into that e20 cycle i think it's more likely i think that he's he just he's just a a better player overall, I think, and left back is probably going to be

slightly more needed with the U-20s than right-back is. You know, like, you think about right-back, and, I mean, Juliana Raho probably going to be the starter there, you'd think, right? I guess. I don't know.

Everything changes all the time, so who knows, but... Yeah, I mean, it's so far from now. It's such a long time. Right. I was going to say if Gomez consistently can handle playing against men in the USL championship, there's no reason he can't physically handle the U20 World Cup, you know? Yeah, definitely. Let's kind of, let's keep it brisk now.

You want to, you got anything else on Kuevas? No, let's move on. I like him. I want to be very clear about that. I like the way he plays soccer. He's fun to watch. Number eight is Paxton Aronson, 16-year-old attacking mid-year-old. attacking mid for the Philadelphia Union

reserves. You heard that right. His first name is Paxton. His last name is Aronson. It's Paxton with an E. Mr. and Mrs. Aronson like to put random E's in the names of their kids. Brendan and

Pax 10, Erinson. He's the younger brother. I think the way that you're supposed to spell it out now is P.A.X. 10. Well, they went with the old-fashioned T-E-N. Okay. He's, I haven't watched a ton of him.

You've watched more. I know you're kind of a Philadelphia Union too groupy, but he's a buzzy little attacking midfielder, technical, loves to hit incisive passes. Pretty small. No idea if he can handle the physical demands of USL, let alone. MLS. What do you see in him?

Yeah, I mean, he's, you know, in a lot of ways, he's a lot like his older brother, right? Similar position, Buzzie, like you said, excellent tight spaces. You know, he has an eye for a pass, likes to drive the ball forward. I think that Paxton stands out in his quickness, both in terms of quickness of thought and quickness of feet. Yep. He's better than Brendan was at this age. Yep.

I think, I thought he'd be introduced to USL this year, but I didn't think he'd become one of Philly 2's best players as quickly as he did. You know, like watching him in the DA, he was always so, so tiny. And it's for him to jump to the USL. I thought really that would be the stumbling point, you know, just to have his game translate. Yeah, right, to have his game translate against grown men. You know, they're like when, when you watch some players, in the DA, you know, I think like, you know, this player is going to be a good USL player. And then it's

going to be the jump to MLS will be the problem. And for a lot of the better prospects just because, you know, they're, they're smaller players. USL, I think is the bigger jump for them. And for him to to have made this jump as well as, as he has is just a really promising sign. I thought he was arguably the best player on the field when they played Red Bull 2 a couple weeks ago. Yeah, I thought so too. I think you really nailed it with quickness of thought and quickness of feet. He looks quicker in both of those ways than his brother does, did, did at this age. And that makes a big difference.

So I'm not, I'm out of the predictions business, but I left it sometime earlier this year. But I do like Paxson-Arensen. I think he has a chance to be a good professional soccer player. Yeah. I think if we talk weaknesses, I mean, he's still a child. It's like I'm not, you're not going to start bashing him for anything athletic, really. Definitely not a finished product yet. It's probably, say he's probably the least developed physically of the 03s we've mentioned so far.

But I think if we're going, if I'm going to knock him for anything thus far this season, it's going to be his his pass accuracy. He has a 35% pass success rate in the opposition half so far this season. Yeah. And that's not good even by Philly 2 standards. I think I've gone back and watched a lot of that. A lot of it is passes that just didn't, like, you know, were a centimeter away or a player making a run that he thought they were going to make.

I don't think it's necessarily anything to be. be super um super down about but um yeah he's had a couple of bad shots as well where he you know he should from bad angles where he just skyd skyed and stuff like that um i think that that checks out a little bit with what i saw of him when he he's played in the d a um when he when he when he does when it comes to making that final pass or or taking that shot sometimes uh hurries it a little bit and when he had time to think about things a little more. But that's his game. He plays really fast and think as he gets older,

he's just going to, that's going to fall out of his game. You know, and on the other hand, like, even if he doesn't have 100% pass accuracy or, like, you know, he has some weaknesses there, he did. The clip that most impressed me in that Red Bulls game was the dummy he made on the goal. the game winner. So he doesn't get credited with anything for that, but it was a, I mean,

very intelligent soccer play. He sees the ball turnover. He checks his shoulder to see that his teammate is making a run. And then when the ball comes to him, he dummies it and the guy's threw on goal. And I love to see that kind of thing. That play was excellent, the check of the shoulder beforehand to see the player making the wrong.

Yeah. It's almost like the team. Don't give you the full picture, huh? Yeah. It's very true. I mean, at some point we'll get there where the statistics are more useful, but they're so nascent at this point. All right. We got one more player, number nine.

We should note before we move on, he signed, they made it, it was made official earlier today that he's a homegrown player. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Congratulations to Paxton and the Aronson family. how about number nine benny redzick this is this one you're going to have to take the lead on okay so red sick is a 17 year old left winger for north tex north texas c he has a great understanding of of space and how the play is unfolding he lets players around him breathe and

and offers myself as a passing option and you know that's some really high-level stuff for a 17 year old team he may be the best player in in all league one at um at in the attacking half at making himself an option for for for his teammates his star outing of the season thus far was his half against the chattanooga red wolves a couple weeks ago both of his goals were him finding his way on to the end of crosses but i think that really like putting it like that undersells how impressive the goals were a little bit because if we think about how like a player who's like kind of universally thought of as the best winger in the in this like you know oh two or three class who also happens to play for north texas and dante seeley has played for this team you know he he doesn't have that quite yet that ability to know when the ball is on the other side of the field where where the play is likely likely to end up and where he needs to be and redwick really nails that you know he has three goals uh in three or four games so far this season just because he's he's able to pull but himself in good spots.

And yeah, he has a really high successful dribble per 90 rate. I think it's like 3.2 per 90, which is very good, I think. Is he fast? Is he quick? He's not. And that's that's the weakness. You know, his athletic ability to play on the wing in MLS is definitely the question mark. but I mean if I've made a mistake in predicting how players have developed in the last like two or three years it's been with basically thinking the same thing of Paxton Aronson who Paxton Pamicle who as a 17 year old also didn't really have I thought the athletic ability to play on the wing in MLS which is where he was playing at that point right in the DA but he

he doesn't have great first straight line speed, but he does have, he has a solid burst, you know, to beat defenders in the 1v1, but he just never really gets into third gear. Other thing is, would be his crossing.

He cuts inside 100% of the time. So. No left foot or what? But mostly to combine with teammates, he's not taking shots from, from distance or anything like that. He's taken a couple that have flashed flash wide but you really

he basically when he gets on the ball he's looking to cut in sign and find a teammate in zone 14 and continue his run to the to the backpost okay yeah his game is just really sophisticated for a 17 year old

I'm not sure again that he that he necessarily has all of the tools to make it at a higher level and again we come back to the homegrown log jam at FC Dallas and he doesn't have the ceiling of, yeah, a seely or some of the other wingers that they have in that program. But if he keeps playing like he's played over the last month, it's going to be pretty

hard to deny him of that homegrown contract. Okay. Well, the Dallas Log Jam comes up again and again. I think we've covered it. Nine young Americans worth watching in USL. Hartman, you got any closing thoughts? You don't have to Yeah

Yeah I'll say that I think that this has been a really Really interesting USL season I don't necessarily I think part of that is that There's been such a void of youth soccer For me to watch I usually watch so much DA

But Are you okay? Are you okay without it? No It's just not It's just not the same bells Life isn't the same Without the DA

Yeah But USL has done a really good job of filling in the gaps even if you know there are problems with the way the league is structured and some of these the void the gap between the independent teams and some of these MLS two teams but I but yeah the the number of players that have been getting a chance is is just a is a great thing and I don't think that there are there are some of the players that we've talked about today I wouldn't have put in the conversation for you know like

who are the nine players I'd most I most want to see you know play professional soccer. But, you know, these guys got a chance and, you know, a Paxton Aronson or Benny Redzick or Justin Che, they got their chance and, you know, they've really taken it and think that's something that, that U.S. soccer needs more of, there needs to be more of 16 and 17-year-olds given a chance instead of, you know, just they aren't one of the one or two best players in the academy, so we'll throw them in college for three years and see what happens.

Right. I'm really excited about Gomez and Gallegos and really anxious to see how that whole sort of the business side of that whole thing works out. I don't know if it's imperative that we as a country figure out that pathway but it is awfully important and I hope that the Federation is at least involved in those discussions

and helping figure that out. Yep, nailed the bells. Okay. Let's talk again sometime. Thanks everybody for listening. Thanks, Matt, for your time. We'll see you.