Sea Control - Sea Control 210 - Space Force and the Coast Guard with Dr. Steve Goff

Episode Date: November 8, 2020

Links: "The U.S. Coast Guard and the U.S. Space Force: An Essential Partnership in Maritime Security," Dr. Steven Goff, U.S. Naval Institute Blog, October 13, 2020."The Guardians of Space: Organizing America's Space Assets for the Twenty-First Century," Cynthia McKinley, Aerospace Power Journal, January 2000.

Hey folks, Jared here. Thanks for tuning back into Sea Control. We dropped the announcement on new hosts last week, and the first episode with the new team is here. So we have Andrea Howard making a spectacular debut interviewing Dr. Steve Goff on his article, The U.S. Coast Guard and the U.S. Space Force, an Essential Partnership in Maritime Security, that appeared on the USNI blog. More announcements on our new hosts for us coming as they come online. As always, we want to advertise and strongly recommend our friends in the SimSec Podcast Network and our second podcast feed, The Bilge Pumps. You can find Alex, Drach, Jamie, and a pile of empty iron brew bottles on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, and wherever else you download your podcast. It's a more low-key, slightly less serious approach to current events in the maritime domain and naval history.

Check them out wherever you download your podcast. With that, I'll turn it over to Kimber's men. You're listening to Sea Control, hosted by the Center for International Maritime Security. Greetings, Sea Warriors, and welcome back aboard Sea Control. I'm Andrea Howard, one of the new hosts on your podcast team. Today we're discussing the budding partnership between Maritime Forces and the U.S. military's newest branch, the Space Force. We are joined by our guest, Dr. Stephen Goff, a former Army infantry officer and Eurasian foreign area officer, who now works as an emergency management specialist with the Coast Guard.

As a reminder, all opinions expressed are personal opinions and not representative of any institutions with which we may otherwise be associated. Thank you so much for joining us. Hey, good morning. Good morning. So, Dr. Goff, before we delve into the Space Force, can you share what you do in your role as an emergency management specialist? Yeah, I actually work for the United States Coast Guard in something called an exercise

support team. And what our team does is we travel to different Coast Guard units, various levels of Coast Guard units, and we support them as they conduct their exercises to test their various contingency plans. So we do exercises related to their area maritime security plans, you know, how they respond to natural disasters, have a responsibility to exercise their continuity of operations plans. So we just support them on all various types of exercises with simple discussion-based, like tabletops, where you sit around in a Socratic method and take a deep dive into key problems within a plan to very complex, what we call full-scale exercises with pieces moving all over the place and so forth. So that's what I do. Yeah, so you've seen all these different moving pieces of the military, and given the experience that you've had with both the Coast Guard and the Army, do you support the traditional claim that, quote, the Army equips soldiers while the Navy and Coast Guard man equipment, unquote? Yeah, I thought about that a lot. And I honestly think you can't make a generalizing statement about like that about, you know, any kind of branch of the service. I mean, there's so many specialties, so many rates within a service. I mean, it's all about what their mission is, you know, developing the capabilities they need to support the mission. And I mean, with respect to the Coast Guard, I think there's no way you'd tell someone, you know, a member of a maritime security response team who's, you know, a Coast Guard equivalent to like special operators that they're just manned equipment, you know, or a rescue swimmer off a Coast Guard helo that's going in the water to rescue someone, you know, from a capsized vessel that they're just a manned equipment.

So, yeah, I don't think you could apply that to the Coast Guard. So with the founding of the Space Force, though, with the fiscal year 2020 National Defense Authorization Act, where do you think that this newest branch falls on that spectrum between equipping people by spanning equipment? Well, I think they fall somewhat in between because, I mean, they had a mission when they were part of the Air Force. So they do need to man those space-based capabilities that existed and, you know, maintain all those capabilities. But I think a larger part of their mission right now is actually, you know, equipping their new personnel. And I'm not just talking about equipment. I mean, they have to think about what skill sets they need, establishing the training that they need, equipping them with the skills and training that they need to function in the Space Force's future mission, whatever that might be. So I would kind of argue that maybe right now their primary mission is to equip their new people with the training and systems that they need to be effective into the future.

that's a fantastic segue because we'll talk about manning a little bit later in this podcast but in your article on the u.s stable institute blog entitled the u.s coast guard and the u.s space force an essential partnership in maritime security and we'll provide the links to that in the podcast description you talk about the mission areas where the coast guard relies on space-based technologies what are the contemporary missions that showcase this reliance well i think that Coast Guard relies heavily on communications and maritime navigation, global positioning systems. I mean, clearly a big part of what they do is search and rescue. So being able to track and locate vessels in distress and conduct search and rescue. Another key mission that they have is

you know, protecting our waterways from illegal fishing. So being able to have some sort of tracking of vessels that are doing illegal activities with fishing, but communications is a big one. You know, I just, I just, as I touched upon a little bit, or we'll touch a little bit about the Arctic requirements. I talked about that in my article is, you know, there's a significant communications gap for the Coast Guard in the Arctic. I know I read an article recently where they talked about the Coast Guard was able to launch two small satellites to help them with their communications in the Arctic. But, you know, the bottom line is the closest Coast Guard air station is in Kodiak, which is hundreds of miles away from, you know,

the expanding Arctic region. So communications is clearly critical for them. Being a submariner, I definitely share that sentiment that communications will be key in all operating areas of the world. And the Navy very much so will have to make the same push to coordinate with Space Force to ensure that sustained communication path at all locations. Looking back, though, too, there's a deep history of the Naval Services relying on space. Sir Julian Corbett was even listed as a contributor to the Space Force's recent capstone publication. Can you lay out some of these historical ties for us? It was really interesting for me when I started researching my article is, you know, there's some great parallels between the beginning of maritime exploration as countries and nation states, you know, close to a thousand years ago started moving out and exploring, you know, the oceans of the world.

They had to initially first secure their homeland, and then as explorers went out and discovered locations for resources and establishing trade routes, their navies had to expand out and start protecting those routes, protecting those ports, those ships and so forth that were carrying goods and services back to their home country. So I think there's a great parallel between that time, you know, close to a thousand years ago when nations were doing that with our oceans. And we're just now, you know, on the forefront of beginning to explore space. So there's some great parallels, I think. I'm not an expert on Corbett, but, you know, you talked about the importance of securing lines of communication. Well, clearly there's got to be lines of communication within space, key orbits that have to be protected. as you think out into the future i mean they're already talking about bases on the moon i'm sure there's key terrain on the moon where there's just the right places that provide the most effective communications to earth or points for launching shipped spaceships out those all need

to be secured so i think there's great parallels you know securing spaceports that may exist so So in the future, if, you know, there's some speculation that there's precious minerals and resources out there that can be brought back. So there's some potential, you know, for piracy. So how are we going to protect space freighters, for lack of a better term, bringing resources back to the United States? How are we going to protect that? So I think there's some great parallels. Definitely. And you've laid out some of the arguments, too, for why the Space Force rank structure might more appropriately correlate with that of the Coast Guard and the Navy rather than that of the Air Force and Army, given that overlap in mission areas and those historical ties that we have in ensuring those sea lines of communications to now space lines of communication or whatever the case may be, spaceports, space routes. So as the Space Force expands its role in the space frontier, the U.S. Coast Guard, like you mentioned, is simultaneously seeking to broaden its presence in the competitive Arctic arena.

How can the Coast Guard leverage the Space Force's resources in the Arctic? Can you expand upon that initial thought you already shared? Sure. Well, I think there's some challenges to the Coast Guard's mission in the Arctic, clearly with the melting of the polar ice cap and the expanding areas of coastline. Now there's shipping routes through the Arctic that are shorter than the previous route, so you have shipping, potential tourism, and cruise ships up there. So the Coast Guard's got to think about how they're going to conduct search and rescue. What's the potential for a mass rescue operation or some sort of stranded cruise ship up there? So I think that, first of all, they could tap into additional communications capabilities

that the Space Force may have, but also reconnaissance and surveillance that could be used to identify, you know, the important exposed shoreline that needs to be monitored, tracking of fishing, illegal fishing that's going on. I mean, if there was, God forbid, an accident up there and they had to do search and rescue, it's going to take a long time to get up there. So how can they leverage those assets to quickly bring Coast Guard search and rescue to bear? So I think there's a lot of partnership there they could do. Definitely. And do you think given that area of potential overlap and these other mission sets that there is an inevitable overlap in the Space Force in the Coast Guard's most

likely potential adversaries? Yeah, I thought about this a lot. So, a couple of different answers. Clearly, one of the great threats to the United States is terrorism, and those are some very remote areas up there, and terrorists and drug traffickers and so forth are pretty smart individuals, and if they can find a weakness or an entry in the United States to these remote areas, that that's clearly an area where they the coast guard and the space force could partner to try to mitigate and stop some of these bad actors from getting to our country's country to these remote areas but i'd like to say you know one of the one of the positive things about the coast guard and it's not necessarily a member of it's not a part of the dod is that the the coast guard is great

at establishing partnerships like per what you mentioned or is that you know russians and the chinese consider the arctic a strategic ground of importance you know and clearly they're potential adversaries of the united states with regards to that but the coast guard is in a unique position to establish and maintain partnerships with countries that are moving through the Arctic or recognize the importance of the Arctic and try to mitigate some of those adversarial attitudes that go on on the warfighter side. Most definitely. And the Coast Guard is in a unique place given its status outside of the Department of Defense to, like you said, help develop some of those partnerships for the Space Force. That's an incredible point.

We talked about a little bit earlier the manning issues that Space Force is having, and I still want to save and table that issue for a little bit later, but what do you foresee outside of that manning issue as a Space Force's primary mission in the first years of its existence, and will that focus transform over time? I think the Space Force, you know, in their capstone document talks a little bit about it is they need to take a step back and determine, all right, thinking out into the future, what are the skill sets that we need? What's our force structure need to look like? What type of people do we need to bring aboard to help us accomplish not only our current mission, but also potential future missions? Their primary job, I think right

now, is to start thinking through what that future force structure should look like. And that's part of why I wrote the article, is that now is the time, I think, as this new organization is starting to think about what it needs to look like, now is the time for the Coast Guard to consider, hey, how can we assign some folks to the Space Force and help them navigate through some of these issues and strategic thinking far out into the future of what the Space Force needs to look like. Specifically in your article, too, you mentioned that you think the Space Force might move from initially supporting combatant commanders to securing trade and commercial travel routes as more of a focus.

Do you find that that will be the case, and has that been the case for some of the other services in the past? I really think so. I really think so. As I mentioned earlier, we're just now, I think, in the beginning stages of getting serious about space exploration. I mean, we have private sector companies that are looking and getting involved in that. You know, I even jotted down, you know, the potential of a space merchant marine, you know, force type of thing that's active, active out in space and protecting that would be an important component of the Space Force's mission in the future.

and you know why would we explore space i mean clearly we have a growth or a development of new technologies but if you look at human history we explore to identify resources to establish trade you know as it becomes more prevalent you could even have a tourism industry where people just want to go up into space or go to the moon so the future potential of what occurs in space beyond warfighting is significant, I think, into the future. And the Space Force has positioned itself, just like the navies of hundreds of years ago, to allow that to occur safely and in a protected environment. So why specifically, Ben, is the Coast Guard uniquely suited to help regulate the growing commercial activities in the space domain? What Coast Guard capabilities have they

developed perhaps off of the coast of Africa doing counter piracy or similar operations that will translate into those space exploitation requirements? Well, in my research, I discovered an article, you know, that was written like 20 years ago that draw a very interesting comparison between Coast Guard missions and potential space-based operations. So not all of it can be military or warfighter focus. I mean, it's got to move more to a multi-agency type of flavor that could be more on the civilian side or less threatening warfighter side. So some skills that I highlighted from this article were, you know, the Coast Guard has a mission of maintaining the aids to navigation? Well, as there are space routes are established,

you know, the potential exists for some sort of space-based navigation capability being put up into space. So how can the aids to navigation that the Coast Guard performs now translate to maintaining space-based aids to navigation that's an example um i mentioned earlier that you know as trade trade occurs and resources are being transported back to earth some smart person out there is going to figure out how to pirate pirate those uh those things so how can the coast guards role in preventing piracy translate to to that type of thing in space satellite repair those types of things so i think there's a laundry list of those capabilities that that coast guard people trained with those skill sets could help translate and create

doctrine for those future roles in space most definitely the coast guard personnel like you are so suited to help develop those those doctrines the article you mentioned too is the guardians of space by lieutenant colonel mckinley and we will make sure that we link her piece as well at the end of the podcast thank you so much for referencing that is a really neat chart to look at and just visually see these comparisons that are being made between the coast guard mission sets and the space domain so now we're going to get to oh go ahead could i just follow up on that. One of the reasons why I wrote this paper and article, Guardians of Space, was that previously there already was Air Force Space Command in place, you know, and there's certain

inertia with established organizations. And why would they, why would, you know, the military is a great example historically of once they're set in their ways, they don't really accept change very well, just like many other organizations. But right now, I think, is the key moment in time as the Space Force is being established, as they're thinking through what they're going to look like and what type of people they need, what their force structure is going to be. Now is the time to take advantage of what Guardians of Space outlined as, you know, here's the skills the Coast Guard can bring to a Space Force. Now is the time to bring those people in on the ground floor and create an environment and culture within the Space Force

that's looking forward and beginning to think about these types of things. You know, you fast forward 10 or 15 years from now when the Space Force is established, there may not be that much willingness to create an environment of change and strategic thinking like that. Definitely. And that highlights the last really big question that I wanted to focus on, which was one of the first things you brought up in our conversation. Current legislation predominantly allows for the transfer of Air Force personnel to the Space Force, but Rear Admiral Christian Becker, the former commander of the Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command, SPAWAR, envisioned a future where Navy and Marine Corps personnel can contribute their community-specific

knowledge to space acquisition. And while the Air Force Academy just recently commissioned 86 graduates into the Space Force in May of 2020, who do you believe are those ideal candidates to man the Space Force from the Maritime Services. Yeah, I read an article, it's actually a speech by a retired Air Force Lieutenant General given not too long ago about the need for a U.S. Space Force. And he cautions that since the Space Force is taken from the Air Force and currently is supported by the Air Force, There's going to be that institutional tendency to maintain an Air Force focus, and I think now's the time for them to look beyond that.

I mean, clearly the Navy and potentially the Marine Corps provide the right kind of skills and attributes to translate, you know, the maritime, relate to maritime comparison to future space travel and space routes and so forth. And we talked about potential adversaries in space and piracy. There could be some component of ground force, marine type force in space that would be needed. So I think you got to expand out from the Air Force and think about folks from the Navy and the Marines. But even beyond that, ultimately, just like many of our combatant commands, you got to think about a multinational, multi-agency type capability that's going to think through these future actions in space. So maybe not service component, but looking more at individuals that have the right skill sets that will translate to the future needs of the Space Force. You know, those could be civilian or Coast Guard or merchant marine even I alluded to. So, you know, definitely need to think beyond the Space Force, I'm sorry, the Air Force, and look at individuals with needed skill sets that you need to bring aboard. Definitely. The submarine force had a nice shining moment with one of our junior officers

laterally transferred into the astronaut community and is now serving at NASA, correction, at NASA. And aside from submariners who kind of have this niche knowledge for operating these confined spaces and some of the nuclear sciences, do you think that there are any particular rates within the Coast Guard or the Navy and Marine Corps that are really suited for that transfer over to Space Force? Are there specific skills that you think really are in need of development within the Space Force? An initial one that pops to mind would be search and rescue capability. I mean, in my research, they're looking at commercial space travel, even tourism travel may be occurring within the next four or five years. And at some

point, there's going to be an accident up there. So maybe the initial skill set that needs to translate over is search and rescue and space-based rescue operations. That would be one that springs to mind right off the top. Definitely. And are there any, just as a closing thought, any other foreseeable issues that you think that we've missed in this conversation that Space Force will really need to tackle in these next few years? And how, again, can the Navy and Coast Guard bolster those challenges and overcome them? I think that, you know, getting past the Air Force centric mentality could be a problem. You know, I read a little bit of their capstone document. I think they're well on the way of getting away from that, but they need to be willing to bring

the right skill sets from other departments like the Coast Guard and that would help them shape the future. So yeah, getting past the Air Force-centric mentality might be important right now. Definitely. And I do think there are some of my submarine friends, and I'm sure surface warfare, other warfare areas in the Navy who would jump at the opportunity to do something different and novel in the Space Force, and even just bring a little bit of those unique culture sets and ways of thinking that we've been brought up in as officers in these different services to a new service to help forge forward a new path. I think because in my reading, Corbett talked a little bit about the need of establishing cruisers as part of maritime strategy. Other articles are

now talking about translating Corbett's importance of cruisers to some sort of space-based cruiser capability to help protect lines of communication. So, you know, naval maritime strategy could definitely play a role in shaping that type of capability in space, some sort of space-based cruiser capability. Absolutely. And I'll, again, advocate that driving a submarine three-dimensionally seems very similar to piloting in space. So, you know, maybe I would like that opportunity as well in the future. No, I'd take it back. I love the submarine force. It's been fantastic. I will have to put in the plug, though, as well, that in terms of, you know, science fiction ranks you know it was captain kirk it was not colonel kirk so definitely have to draw from

some of our naval and coast guard personnel and stick them in space to uphold that esteemed tradition well you you bring a good point is the ability to think in three dimensions members of the submarine force clearly have that capability so thinking in three dimensions is vital i think Most definitely. And we'll leave it there. Looking at kind of the three-dimensional problems and all the dimensions of the issues that we've talked about as these different mission sets are going to coalesce in a new frontier, whether that's the Arctic or space commercial travel. So unfortunately, that's all that we have time for today. But I'd like to thank my guest, Dr. Stephen Goff, for joining us. Stephen, where can we find you online and what are you working on next? I just wrote a pandemic plan for the Coast Guard, one of the elements in the Coast Guard, and I think I was able to adapt some military decision-making models, decision support matrix that can translate to help emergency managers make decisions in disasters. So I'm starting to put pen to paper and write a little article to share that with emergency managers to help them with their emergency plan. So thank you. Fantastic. Well, we'll be on the lookout for that.

And for those interested in exploring this budding partnership between Space Force and the Maritime Services, CIMSEC is working to create an essay contest for high school students that focuses on the intersection of space power and sea power. We look forward to this initiative and your future submissions. Sea Control is produced and edited by Keegan Ingersoll, Ed Salo, and William McQuiston. Thank you again, Dr. Goff, and we will see you later. Thank you. I don't know.