Sea Control - Sea Control 333 - Crimario: France, the EU and the Indo-Pacific (English Version)

Episode Date: April 3, 2022

Link:Promote maritime domain awareness through information sharing and capacity building,CRIMARIO, Expertise France, 2019. 

Hey, folks, Jared here. Alexia Boulaghi is back as host, editor, and producer for another Dual Language episode. You are listening to the English version of that interview, and this week she's speaking with Marianne Perron-Douas about Cremario and the EU in the Indo-Pacific. We are still looking for audio editors to add to our team, so if you're interested, please email us at ccontrol at simsec.org with your resume. Finally, I want to take the opportunity to recommend our partners in the SimSec Podcast Network, the Bilge Pumps. You can find Alex, Jamie, Drack, and a pile of iron brew bottles wherever you download your podcast.

So on that note, I'll turn it over to Kimber's men. You're listening to Sea Control, hosted by the Center for International Maritime Security. Hello, shipmates, and welcome back aboard Sea Control. Today, I'm joined by Marianne Perrondois, and we are going to be discussing maritime security, France and Indo-Pacific strategies and the CRIMARIO2 initiative. Mariam Perrondois, welcome. Could you please introduce yourself to our audience? Hello Alexia, I'm very glad to be here and to be invited to this podcast. Well, to say a few words about me, I am a research fellow at the Strategic Institute for Research Topics at École Militaire

in paris which is a multidisciplinary research center that depends on the ministry of the armed force i'm there since 2015. my background is of navy officer but having a career more focused on strategic issue located on shore i will say working in joint staff and policy planning department more I confess that having operational activity at sea and as you know me you know that I have some consultancy and teaching activities you know that I am occasionally involved in this EU capacity building project and concerning my teaching activities I'm lecturer on maritime security precisely at Sciences Po Paris and at the Catholic University at Lille. Thanks a lot Marianne and as a reminder all opinions are our own and not reflective

of any institution with which we may be associated. So to kick off this interview I think it would be very useful to dive into the field of maritime security studies in Europe. Could you explain Janice, what are the gaps and where do we stand? You know that it is one of my favorite topics, Alexia. Indeed, I do think that maritime issue and the teaching of maritime issue is very embryonic in France and in Europe. Also, we have observed the development of academic research on piracy. Although there have been some quite interesting initiatives, I have in mind the creation of a research network, SafeSeas, thanks to Professor Beger and Professor Edmonds.

I have in mind also some very brilliant academic researchers, Basile Germont, Alessio Badalano. They all conducted very smart maritime-oriented analysis. Well, I also can mention in France a very recent initiative conducted by La Sorbonne University. I heard about the creation of an institute for the ocean. And I think that with the emergence of topics like Indo-Pacific, the blue economy, I think that there is a renewed interest in integrating this issue in the field of social science, because there is a real interest on the side of the student. They very often choose geopolitical subjects, you know, of course, maybe there is a fashion trend in that. But I can tell you that when they had to choose their master's subject, dissertation, they usually go to the South China Sea, they go to piracy in the Gulf of Guinea or the Arctic, and I think it's a very good thing.

Thanks a lot for your insight indeed. Could you now put into perspective and compare both French and EU Indo-Pacific approaches and how they intend to deal with maritime security challenges? I think that this approach, the approach of EU and France toward the Indo-Pacific have many, many, many points of consequence. Of course, I think it is quite important to mention the influence of France, influence of other member states, such as Germany and Netherlands, which published some guidelines on the Indo-Pacific, so that the EU committed itself to develop a specific strategy,

taking into account, I will say, its own interest, the significance of this area, but also insisting on the impact of the main topic in the area on its own stability and prosperity. I think that they had some common identity because both the French and the EU approach are very cooperative or multilateral. They both insist on the respect of the international law, notably freedom of navigation, the interest of a joint approach for global issues. I have in mind climate change, protection of the ocean,

protection of biodiversity, importance of connectivity. There are many, many, many aspects that are common to both actors. And I will also mention this accent, this emphasis on partnership. The importance, for example, of ASEAN, the importance of developing an inclusive approach, the refusal of a kind of logic of confrontation. And you know that particularly as we go to China, for example. And there is also this will that is that EU and France, when it came to maritime affairs, are truly to be recognized as credible security actors.

And this is really something very visible in the Indo-Pacific strategy of EU and France, of course. Thanks a lot for your insights. And now let's dive into France and have a focus on that. So what do you think are the blue ambitions of the French presidency of the EU? Yes, this is very, very interesting to observe, you know, because while France is a resident power in the Indo-Pacific, France has maritime assets that are deployed on its territories in the Indian Ocean and the Pacific and want to be recognized, as I already said, like EU as an effective and credible actor in the maritime. So all of these elements, and with the importance of the security of the maritime in the Indo-Pacific, are very present in the expression of this blue diplomacy by France during the French presidency of the EU Council, apparently, until June 2022. And this diplomacy and this blue ambition, as we can say, is expressed in very interesting initiatives. Many submit to submit diplomacy.

We have already a maritime security summit organized in Brest with the head of the Navy of the EU member state. Another summit is devoted to good governance and the protection of the ocean. I'm sure that many of us have heard about the One Ocean Summit, also organized in press and organized with the cooperation of the United Nations and the World Bank. There will also be organization of another international summit dedicated to the Indo-Pacific and in the presence of the foreign affairs representative from the 27 member states, but also in presence of their partner in the Indo-Pacific as Japan and India. So you can see many maritime-related initiatives on the agenda of France currently. Now, I think it will be interesting for our listeners to have your insight as you were part of the Primario initiative and strategy. Could you explain how this whole Primario initiative emerged

and was implemented in the Indian Ocean? Yeah, with pleasure indeed. Indeed, because I think it's a very interesting initiative. But if you'll allow me, I will go back to the history of the Primario project. Because, well, a lot of people forget that Primario is initially a part of the Critical Maritime Road Programme, which is an extension of the EU initiative dating back to 2009, and which initial objective was to protect maritime transport, was also to protect some maritime activities, fishing, tourists against piracy,

and with a focus on very vulnerable spots in Southeast Asia and the Western Indian Ocean and the Gulf of Guinea. And the objective of this initial program was and is still to strengthen maritime capacity of the littoral state And particularly in enhancing exchange of maritime information, reinforcing regional cooperation, notably with Coast Guard and the policing agency at the national level, at the regional level, but also trans-regional level. And we had the first seconds with what we can call Cremario 1 from 2015 to 2019, which aim was to support the development of the Kibbuti Code of Conduct and the emergence of the regional security architecture in the Indian Ocean, with the creation of three maritime centers for information sharing. And it's still in Yemen, in Sana'a, in Tanzania, and in Kenya. And not to forget also the setup of a regional maritime training center still active in Djibouti.

And the role of CRIMARIO 1 was to consolidate this architecture and CRIMARIO did it by developing a maritime information sharing platform called IORIS and also by developing numerous training courses and specific formation for the littoral state, always with the spirit of developing cooperation and developing interoperability between all of these centres. I would like to emphasise, and I think that it is one of the main reasons of the success of Primario in the Western Indian Ocean region, that more recently Primario has also supported The development of the Maritime Information Fusion Center created in Madagascar and also the operational center that was set up in the Seychelles as a part of a maritime safety program that is implemented by the Indian Ocean Commission and also funded by the European Union.

And now we are in a new sequence with CRIMARIO2, we can call it like that, and the project has been renewed in 2020 with an expansion in the south of the Indian Ocean, in Southeast Asia, and more recently, I would say, towards the South Pacific. We had, in fact, the global map of the Indo-Pacific with Primario. I would underline the fact that Primario is perfectly, I will say, the reflect and a kind of concretization of the will of the European Union to take a very concrete part in the maritime security of the whole Indo-Pacific. To pursue on that, what are the main threats to maritime security in the Indian Ocean and East and South China Sea? What are the specificities proper to each area and will these specificities affect the

strategy actually and work of CRIMORIO2? It's a complex question. What I can say about CRIMARIO2 from a geopolitical perspective is that it is an initiative that fits perfectly into the cooperation strategy that EU intend to implement through this Indo-Pacific approach with partner that has been identified for quite a long time. I already mentioned ASEAN, Japan and India. And of course, these strategies include concerns to protect the major shipping lanes, the sea lane of communication, the Malacca Strait, the South China Sea and also the Babel Mandate Strait.

Of course, I guess the EU is aware of the complexity and the diversity of the maritime security issue that cross all of this area, in particular, accentuation of power rivalry between major players. And in its strategy, the EU clearly mentioned reinforcement of military capability in the area and mentioned particularly China,

mentioned the Taiwan Strait, but also emphasis attack on the rule-based international order and, of course, the weakening of the Montego Bay Convention. I think that in this respect, the trade analysis of the EU is very lucid. The EU is very lucid, I guess, regarding its capacity, regarding its means, what it can and what it wants to implement.

And in the approach of EU, that means involving dialogue, involving cooperation. With an assessment of EU, again, there is clearly a kind of refusal of any confrontational posture. And the CRIMARIO2 project, which is based on information sharing, support for regional law enforcement capacity in the south of the Indian Ocean, in the Southeast Asia and in the Pacific, well, meets this objective perfectly. In my view, and this is my analysis, the CRIMARIA-2 project is not a technical operational project. It has a strong political strategy component. It allows the EU to become involved in regional maritime security in a very concrete, in a very sustainable way. It enables the EU to effectively strengthen partnerships in the region. Well, this is my view.

And it's very enlightening and interesting. So now we can focus on Cremon U2 and the objectives behind it. So what are its main objectives and in which way does it answer a need facing the threats in maritime security in the short run, but also in the longer run. And can you give a perspective on that? Yes, with pleasure. I think that Primario 1, in fact, has a legacy

and has been seen as contributing very effectively to the, I will say, security and stability of the region. And the objective of Primario 2, of course, is to give more substance to the cooperative approach of the EU as expressed in its Indo-Pacific strategy, a multi-dimensional approach, and of course its ambition to contribute not only to a safer maritime governance in the region,

but also to, I will say, a healthier maritime governance. Because this is not only supporting the capacity of the coast guard in the region, this is also, you see, taking into account many other problematic than strictly maritime security linked to the protection or the monitoring of the EEZ. This is going quite beyond piracy, beyond illegal fishing, but also taking into account biodiversity, impact of climate change on the coastal population. And this is a specific concern when you look at the South Pacific. So there is the objective to reinforce the coastal means of coast guard in the region and to face and to help them to face in a very much effective way to all of these tasks coming from, I will say, classical maritime security approach or new non-traditional security approach. to conclude i would like to ask you about the challenges of the eu and put an emphasis on that can cremario build momentum to allow for the framing of the indo-pacific as a strategic security setting within the eu as you have underlined france has been a strong proponent

of this and this can it in turn allow for strengthening of eu actoness in the indo-pacific As we know, the EU is very diverse and there are a lot of interests. And how can it challenge EU strategic position in the Indo-Pacific? I would say yes. I would say yes, indeed. My thinking is that Primario is a tool among many others. And I would underline again that there are many conventions in France and EU approach to the strategic security in the Indo-Pacific, and also a real willingness to be recognized on both sides

as an active and a visible player. And of course, there is quite a difference, of course, in the position of France, because France is a resident power, but in a way, for France, relying more on the EU pillar is a way to reinforce its place, is a way to reinforce its influence in the region. And for both, EU and France, I think that there are benefits in this common vision, in this common approach, because both of them, finally, they can go through what we call a blue diplomacy.

EU and France can take part to dialogue within the main regional organisation, within the main maritime forum of the region. And I have in mind, of course, ASEAN, the Indian Ocean Commission, IORA, the Pacific Island Forum, specific initiatives like IONS, where France is a member and where EU can be inviting. I have in mind the AGAM structure devoted to the cross-border in the region. Apart from this blue diplomacy, there is this soft security approach with capacity building initiative and CRIMORIO is one of those. And of course, I will also mention something relying more on our security approach when France or EU occasionally are deploying a naval platform, are deploying frigates or aircraft carrier in the region to take part to major exercise with the US fleet, with Japan, with India on ASEAN naval element.

Thank you so much for this final note. That's all the time we have for today. I'd like to thank my guest, Marianne Perrondoise. Marianne, where can we find you online and what are you working on next? To be frank, I have plenty of work that I need to finish, actually. Well, I'm quite active and I try to stay active on my Twitter account when you can see one of my occupations. And while I'm working, of course, on the Indo-Pacific and trying to elaborate a little more regarding the posture of the different actors that are developing this Indo-Pacific vision. We spoke quite a lot today of France and EU,

but there are so many other partners, and I'm quite interested in the ASEAN posture and vision regarding this Indo-Pacific posture. Thanks, good luck, and to our listeners, thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next time. Thank you. Put it in the alley Water, wine, both white and red

I'll put it on the shimbo now So help me, Bob I'm putting it in the alley Why are they putting it in the alley? Help me, Bob I'm putting it in the alley Put it on the shimbo now