Sea Control - Sea Control 424 - French Naval Diplomacy with Rear Admiral Jean-Mathieu Rey (English Version)

Episode Date: April 2, 2023

Rear Admiral Jean-Mathieu Rey discusses French naval diplomacy and international naval cooperation. Rear Admiral Jean-Mathieu Rey is in charge of the French Navy's international relations and was formerly the Commander of French forces in the Pacific. Alexia Bouallagui edited and produced this episode.

Hello, and welcome to the Sea Control Podcast. I'm Nathan Miller. Today, Alexia Boualagi and Rear Admiral Jean-Mathieu Rey discuss French naval diplomacy and international cooperation. A quick side note, this is a dual-language episode. You are currently listening to the English version. If you like the French, you can return to your feed and download that episode. Alexia Boualagi edited and produced today's podcast. CIMSEC is looking for a volunteer to join our technical team and support our web operations we're looking for someone with a background in wordpress implementation and support as well as knowledge in web hosting and networking some knowledge of identity management and security operations is also helpful

please reach out to content at simsec.org to share your background and discuss i would like to pause here to highlight our local chapters whether you are in south korea egypt singapore france new york India, or the Caribbean, chances are there's a SimSec local chapter near you. You can find a full listing of local chapters and contact information on our website at simsec.org. So if you are interested, please reach out. Finally, I want to take this opportunity to recommend our partners in the SimSec podcast network, The Bilge Pumps. You can find Alex, Jamie, Jack, and a pile of iron brew bottles wherever you download your podcasts. And with With that, Kimber's men.

You're listening to Sea Control, posted by the Center for International Maritime Security. Hello, shipmates, and welcome back aboard Sea Control. Today, my guest is the head of the Navy International Relations, Admiral Jean Mathuré. Admiral, thanks again for joining us today. Could you tell us a bit about your background for the ones who don't know you yet, please? Thank you, first of all, for your invitation. It's a pleasure to be with you. My name is Jean-Mathieu Rey.

I am a French Navy officer. I am an engineer because our Navy is a technical one. I am a military man and I am a sailor. That's my background. and operate in our navy, mainly in our special forces, our navy commando, and in our air defense units. So close or on board our carrier today is Charles de Gaulle. I am today in charge of our international relation to have in charge the coordination and the coherence of our action on behalf or under the command of our Chief of the Navy, Amiral Vendier.

Thanks, Admiral. So let's start this discussion about French naval diplomacy. So as our French writer Hervé Couteau-Bégarie wrote, a warship is the best ambassador. So we have you here to deal with this subject with you. So you're the Head of Navy International Relations. Since when does this crucial position exist? And what are your missions on a day-to-day basis?

As you mentioned, all our units, all our warships are ambassadors of our country, of the French Republic. So you need to coordinate to guarantee to our president, to our government, the coherence of our actions. We need a team in charge of this coordination and coherence on behalf of the chief of the Navy. So I think this job, this appointment, as far as the Navy exists, I guess an admiral was in charge with the staff here in Paris at strategic level in a strong link with our different area commander. So based in Brest for the Atlantic, based in Toulon for the Mediterranean Sea, or in Abu Dhabi for the Indian Ocean, in Tahiti for the Pacific, or other commander we have in southwest of Indian Ocean, in La Reunion, in southwest in the Pacific, in Nouméa. It's a question of coordination and it's a team job and it's my pleasure to work with this team. You know, for a sailor, the crew spirit is very important. We are never alone.

Some of us cross Atlantic or Pacific alone, but it's an exception. We have a job of teams, a job with a crew. Indeed, it's a fascinating job and mentality. So to dive into the subject, we are at key moments now in international relations with the rise of strategic competition and remilitarization at sea. What is France's position and what role does it intend to play? First of all, we have to protect, we have to defense our sovereignty. I'm speaking about our territories, our economic exclusive zone, more than 11 million square kilometers. The resources in this area, it's very important to be able to protect that.

And that's what we are doing with Navy assets or in general with armed forces. Second point, France is a power of balance attached to the international law and regarding naval aspects attached to the freedom of navigation. It's a cardinal principle of international law at sea. And the French Navy acts alone or in coalition on all the seas on the world. How we do that to protect the international law? It's through regular presence. And we want to act against the denial of the law of the sea and the subsequent policies of the fait accompli. We contribute to the action, international action, to protect these international rules.

And it's very important to maintain this freedom of navigation and this peaceful use of this area. So we are on the sea, above the sea, and under the sea. There are people listening today who are aware of our new strategy on seabed warfare. We are intervening in all these aspects of the protection of the law in the sea. Admiral, can you tell us a bit more about the particularities of the French approach to naval cooperation as regards to other international actors? Of course, we are not alone, but some specific characteristics share with other countries, but French characteristics. We have strengths of proposal at European level. I'm speaking about coordinating maritime presence.

We work with partners, but we're at the origin of the subject to more coordinate our action at sea and from the sea in European nation. We have a multilateral approach and we offer a service. I'm speaking about in maritime security, our MICA center based in Brest in charge of all the maritime security in all around the world with other agencies, of course, but it's a characteristic of our action, French action. I could mention the presidency of the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium. We are in charge for two years. We took the charge from Iran, and we will pass at the end of this year to Thailand. We work with partners to Gulf of Guinea, once again, for maritime security against illicit trafficking, illegal fishing. And in HADR domain, I mean humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operation.

A last subject I would like to underline is environmental security. It's a big concern for all our countries, and we take this point into account. When we met two weeks ago in Paris for the Conference Navale de Paris, the French Navy, like US Navy and Royal Navy, share views on your question. And what we underline together is the fact our navies are very important for our countries because we are an important part of the deterrence on our country. So we need advanced capacities in nuclear power submarine and in aircraft carrier. This is a high level equipment. These equipments give us the ability to federate coalition, to lead coalition. And for instance, speaking about our carrier, Charles de Gaulle is today in Indian Ocean

and we cooperate with a lot of countries. We did exercises with the Indian Navy last week, and we will continue. This carrier has been able to operate with 16 other countries. So it's a very important tool to aggregate, if I could say, partners. And it's one of our characteristics. Thanks, Admiral, for these precisions that enable us more to understand how we cooperate and what is a French approach as regards to others and how it's articulated with others also to work together.

So in such a context of competition, sometimes confrontation among actors, which place for naval diplomacy and how does it intend to serve more broadly strategic autonomy? First of all, I would like to underline we are neighbor of a lot of countries because we are seeking here in Paris

to our exigen in Europe, but we have a part of France all around the world. So we have our overseas territories and the associated Economic Exclusive Zone, EEZ. It allows us to have relations with many neighboring countries and to be integrated with many forums, fora. The case I just mentioned, Indian Ocean Naval Symposium, is the case in Western Pacific Naval Symposium.

We have a strategy of partnership and the fact we have part of France and French citizens in their country all over the world, we have a strategy of cooperation, of partnership. But in this domain, I would like to insist on the strategic messaging ability to demonstrate with our partner, our credibility and our determination in order to discourage, if possible, our competitors and to be able to stop them before the war, before the confrontation. And it is less costly, of course, in human lives and in budget to intervene before, to act strongly before. So that's right to do with our naval assets. And this strategic messaging, just a few examples when I speak about that. It's the deployment of our carrier, Charles de Gaulle, I just speak before. It was a case when I was a commander in the Pacific from 2020 to 2022, when we deployed a submarine, seven months and a part of this seven months deployment. It's a long time for a submariner, seven months.

It was in the Pacific and in the China seas. It was a clear message to our capacity to intervene in this part of the world. We did a deployment with the group Jandark to Japan. We conducted an exercise, Arc 21 amphibious exercise with Japanese forces and U.S. forces to operate an amphibious operation on a Japanese island. We did the same last week with our Rafale from the carrier to deploy to Singapore. Our Air Force did that in 2021, deploying Rafale to Tahiti and last year in 2022 to Numea. So this action to deter our competitors to attack. So to dig deeper, the war in Ukraine has highlighted the importance of protecting this very international liberal order based on the respect of international law.

So what impact does the current situation have on the importance of maritime spaces and as strategic also areas to protect? First of all, for all of us, and once again, the 24th of February 2022, I was posted in the Pacific, and it was a surprise. The war was back in Europe, and a war from two countries, so two sovereign countries, one attacking the other one. It was a concern for all the nations. On the naval aspect, we saw different concerns. First of all, the importance of cooperation with our allies in different fields. Just an example on the mine hunting, the fight against the mines, it is a concern. We saw the return of the naval combat. I'm thinking about the Russian units, Mosva, attacked and destroyed.

The war is back in Ukraine and around Ukraine in Black Sea. So this new context also underscores that the challenges are of such magnitude that the response can only come from a coalition effort. And that we are doing, you know, France and other partners are supporting Ukraine to help them to defend against the attacking forces coming from Russia. Thanks for this context and these concrete actions and examples and having highlighted the challenges that are at stake right now and the importance of cooperation and the Navy, we'd like to transition to the European Union. So how does French actions at sea fit within this broader European Union actions and initiatives? France has a leading role in bringing Europeans into operations, whether in the Gulf of Guinea, I mentioned before, to fight against illegal fishing.

It's a concern for the countries from this area, 19 countries, and it's a concern for France and other European countries operating in this area in accordance with international laws. So, for instance, in the Gulf of Guinea, 40 or 45 percent of the fishing is illegal fishing. So it's a concern. And we act in a European framework to deal with this problem. In North Indian Ocean, we have to stabilize the region. France is well aware that if we consider the naval operation of the last 20 years, the only one that has achieved its objective is Atalanta. One of the strengths of the EU is a global approach. So we have an operational approach with military operation like Atalanta, but also political, economic, humanitarian support and so on. So we are part of the European Union, and we act to operate with our partners to secure this area, and in my example, the Indian Ocean.

But just a point, it's not in opposition with other organizations we are a member of. I'm thinking about our commitment in NATO, 13,000 hours by our naval units. I did the count because we have a meeting with a foreign defense attaché in Paris this week, 65 defense attachés in Paris, and I underlined this fact, 13,000 hours of operation with French Navy units under the NATO command in 2022. So it was more than the UK. They did 10,000. It's a strong engagement of our two navies together, but it's to underline the fact EU is not in opposition with NATO. We are acting, French, in the two to secure the sea, and we will continue. Thanks for highlighting the complementarity. Indeed, it's very important to stress that, to understand the challenges and the better act together. So this leads to my next question. So you may, with all the actions and at the operational level, but also dialogues that you have achieved, this broad range of actors and nationalities. So what are the main challenges when dealing with them? I think the main challenge is what we call interoperability, the capacity to operate together. This notion is not limited to hardware, equipments, but covers all the spectrum of what we call a capacity. A capacity is on three main pillars.

First of all, organization and processes. We have to be able to operate together. so organization and processes the personnel our crews operating with the same or different system it's possible but close training and we share a lot with our partners with a education program or training period to maintain or to improve this interoperability and of course last but not least the third one the equipment the capacity to operate with equipment with them we discuss together we change order information so it's very important to have this common equipment we are facing with a very strong technological development of our main partners but also of our competitors

we have to stay in the race if i could say it's not so easy because our navies are based on our industries is the case in france and our companies are competitors so the main countries in naval italy spain germany netherland and other in scandinavia all around europe and other ones we have partners in operation with the navy based on industry national one so it's not so easy and And so my main concern is to maintain the interoperability, the capacity to operate together if needed. Thanks a lot for all of that. And I cannot end this interview without asking you, with all the situations you've been through, the actors you've encountered, I'm sure there are many, but could you give us some example of fruitful cooperation and some best moments you remember so far?

quickly three examples close to paris and going east to tahiti where i come from a few months ago first of all in the atlantic in support of our deterrence our capacity to cooperate with the uk and us with royal navy and us navy at a high level of submarine operation So it's a first point. It's in support of our deterrence. So it's very important to maintain this cooperation. I mentioned during our discussion our presidency of the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium, so in particular the remarkable support of the Indian Navy at the origin of this initiative, and in link with what we did in the Western Naval Pacific Naval Symposium in Japan last month. So these symposiums are very important. And the last example, it's exercise I conducted when I was a joint commander in the Pacific, exercise Marrara. We were in Tahiti, so regarding from the capital, it was in the middle of nowhere, if I could say.

Very far from Paris, but very far from Tokyo. You need 20 hours coming from Paris or coming from Tokyo. And we were able to conduct an operation together, two weeks together, with 30 nations. That was the first time we did that. Previously, we did, but we were alone. I mean, the French only, on our territory of French Polynesia. It was important, but a good souvenir is the fact we have been able to do at 13 nations. A few months ago, it was last spring, it was in May, in HADR operation.

humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operation so that's another example very important from my point of view time is running fast unfortunately that's all the time we have for today i'd like to thank my guest admiral jean maturé admiral where can we find you online and what are you working on next you could find me on linkedin my personal link deal but of course on the website of the french navy marine national and our joint operation website to be aware of what we are conducting with our partners and my main concern to to answer correctly to your question are in link with what i mentioned the high level of operation in the Atlantic

and continuing to operate with our partners in Mediterranean Sea, Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean where we are concerned by our territories and by our sea line of communication of our

common spaces. Thanks again for this fascinating talk and to our listeners thanks for tuning in and see you next time. We'll be right back. Water, wine, both white and red Oh, put it on the shimbo now So help me, Bob, I'm pulling the alley

Why are they pulling the alley? Help me, Bob, I'm pulling the alley Put it on the shimbo now