Secret Mum Club with Sophiena - Introducing... Carrie Jane Does Not Exist

Episode Date: November 24, 2023

While the ladies are taking a little break, we've got a brand new podcast to keep you company! Carrie Jade Does Not Exist is the story of how one woman, who took on over six different identities, infiltrated the lives of vulnerable people, and lied her way into gaining their trust. Sue Perkins and journalist Katherine Denkinson will tell the story of how Carrie built up a picture-perfect persona and scammed her way into the literary world until she finally got tangled up in her very own web of lies.Listen to the full six-part series wherever you get your podcasts! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, it's Emma here. As you might have seen on Soph's socials, we haven't been able to get together to record. So sadly, there's no episode of Secret Mum Club this week. But while you're waiting for the next episode, I do have a little treat for you. Do you love a true crime podcast? How about a true crime podcast about a story that played out on TikTok and one hosted by Sue Perkins? From the team behind Secret Mum Club, this is a preview of Carrie Jade Does Not Exist. Hello there, I'm Sue Perkins. And if you are listening in the UK, you might know me for leaving some of the most successful shows on television, like The Great British Bake Off. I'm a comic, TV presenter and sometime writer.

What I'm not, usually, is an investigator, although I do have the outfit. But I became obsessed with the story, full of twists and turns and the most astounding lies. There's lots of things I can't change. I can't make things more accessible. I can't find a cure for Huntington's disease. But I can go around and say thank you to all the people I want to say thank you to. That's the voice of Carrie Jade Williams, a 34-year-old British disability activist living in Ireland. Carrie said she was diagnosed with Huntington's, which is a rare neurodegenerative disease without a cure. It's a serious illness, which over time affects people's ability to think, serious illness, which over time affects people's ability to think, walk and talk. But Carrie was determined to stay optimistic by making TikTok videos. I just think if I send that positivity

out into the world, it just makes the world a little bit better. Her TikTok account had 118,000 followers and having flicked through a few of her videos, the chatty, personable way she talked about her life with Huntington's disease was exactly what had drawn them all in. In 99 days, I am having experimental brain surgery for my terminal Huntington's disease. And I have a list of things that I want to do, 99 things. So today, I am writing an email to say thank you to Mr Kiplin. Yes, the cake manufacturer. Basically,

I have decided instead of doing like the traditional kind of bucket list, I'm doing more like a thank you list and just having fun list because if you have to get a terminal illness at my age, like you kind of have to make the best of it. She seemed so sweet. One of those people that has an immediate warm and approachable personality. In all of her videos, she was cheerful, funny, even when she was talking about her very serious health issues. And like there are some perks to dying young. Like number one, you can do wild things. And if people say, oh geez, why did she do that? You can say, well, it's the Huntingtons and I am determined to have fun with whatever time I have left. The disability community on TikTok is huge. It's made up of both

adults with disabilities and those who have disabled children or family members. They're quite close-knit and can be extremely supportive of one another enabling people to share their lives online and show the reality of living with various conditions. Carrie's TikTok account was called This World Can Be Accessible. She used it both for her disability activism, but also to promote her website called 1820 Things, a site she mainly used to host her shop that sold 3D-printed sensory toys and promoted projects linked to accessibility like this one.

So we're doing a little fundraising project and everyone will be being sent out these little sets and it has over 50 pieces in it to make a little fairy garden. But what we're thinking of doing, what I'm thinking of doing is printing parts of the sections in Braille. of doing is printing parts of the sections in braille. Obviously we understand that a lot of the children and adults participating in this might not be able to read braille but just as kind of a way for children to maybe experience some braille for the first time. Carrie told people that she'd started to use braille because Huntington's had limited her ability to recognise words and letters. Selling braille products was a way for limited her ability to recognise words and letters. Selling braille products was a way for her to raise awareness and also promote inclusivity. We could do like little fairy type books that are printed in braille with maybe the written word with them or something. Would that be something that you think would be of interest?

Would it spark a conversation with you and your child? Online, she seemed incredibly proactive, especially for someone who'd just been diagnosed with two life-altering health issues. The name of her website, 1820 Things, actually comes from her diagnosis. Carrie told her followers that she had developed early-onset Alzheimer's as a result of her Huntington's disease, and according to Carrie, a person with Alzheimer's forgets five things per day, or 1,820 per year. Hence the name 1,820 things. A lot of mums on TikTok bought sensory toys for their children

from the site, and while Carrie was never going to become a millionaire off the back of it, she seemed to have a pretty steady income. To supplement this, she also ran an Airbnb from her spare room. And it was a story about that Airbnb that would eventually make Carrie's account go viral and therefore become her undoing. I'm Sue Perkins and you're listening to Carrie Jade Does Not Exist, a podcast about how one woman who took on over six different identities

infiltrated the lives of vulnerable people, lied her way into gaining their trust, and built up a picture-perfect persona until she got tangled up in her very own web of lies. Hello, Airbnb. I'm one of the many hosts around the globe that you profit from. Jade is terminally ill. She is disabled. She lives with Huntington's. I am appalled that internet trolls have attempted to discredit my advocacy. I'm in search of this lady. I want some answers. 24 adult colouring books per year. Sign that petition and share this video on repeat.

There are some perks to dying young. Oh, what's that? That's just me listening for an apology. This is episode one, The Activist. That's Catherine Denkinson, a journalist who's written for publications like Vice, The Times and The Independent. She's an investigative journalist whose work focuses on disinformation, the far right and conspiracies. And before that, she spent 15 years working in mental health. Hi, I'm Catherine. Catherine first broke the story of Carrie Jade Williams in December 2022. It was her article for Vice World News that introduced me to the story that we're going to hear about over the course of this series. So Catherine, first of all, tell me about the video that Carrie-Jade Williams posted, the one that caught your attention. So July 25th last year, Carrie-Jade posted a video on TikTok about her most recent Airbnb guests.

Hello Airbnb, I'm one of the many hosts around the globe that you profit from. Unfortunately, as I'm disabled, you have decided that because your business doesn't have an accessible platform, that it's easy to just ignore me. She seemed both shocked and furious in the video where she explained that the guests had complained to Airbnb, accusing her of traumatising them by being a disabled person and making them use her accessible doorbell. I know ableism exists and I've experienced it. Well, this sounds like an awful story. and I've experienced it.

Well, this sounds like an awful story. This sounds like something that disabled listeners will probably relate to, the casual and sometimes very intentional abuse that that community gets. Absolutely. I mean, this is how the video took off. People really did relate because it was completely horrendous. It was a really disappointing story and it only got worse. Over the next three days, Carrie posted other videos telling her followers how Airbnb had sided with the guests.

But again, this is outrageous. You know, the idea that someone would petition, you know, an online rental site with this horrific story and that they wouldn't be listened to. Well, yeah, I mean, this is how Carrie's followers felt as well. According to Carrie, Airbnb had sided with the guests and demanded that she refund them the entire cost of their stay. It's jaw-dropping to me. It is, and it continues to get worse because she then posted another video revealing that not only were the guests being refunded and Airbnb was siding with them, the guests weren't happy with their refund. They were actually suing her for the trauma she'd caused them by being a disabled person. Right, OK, so this is a calamitous stockpile of horrors, essentially. It is rude guests who are then ableist, refuse to use an accessibility doorbell,

then petition Airbnb for a refund, which then Airbnb capitulates and gives, and then that's not enough. So this is, no wonder this story goes viral, because it's a horror story. It absolutely is. I mean, they stayed a couple of nights, were traumatised apparently by her doorbell and her disabledness,

tried suing her for 450,000 euros, and they had this great long list of demands to go with suing. So here we go. Apparently, being around me, a disabled person, was so traumatic for these guests. This is what they now require for the remainder of their life to endure the trauma of being around me. Dietary supplements, six weighted blankets, already purchased receipts available, emotional release treatments, treatment list to be provided, 24 adult colouring books per year for the remainder of their life. Lots to say there. Emotional release treatments for having to

use an accessibility doorbell and adult colouring books don't get me started I could do an entire podcast on that it would be unlistenable to you because it would just be me swearing right what's next there surely can't be much more Ayurveda treatment aromatherapy equipment emotional support animal one so this is the cost of animal per year for life I've got an emotional support support animal and that pretty much bankrupts me. Right, that's it, right? That's it. We've got the whole, they're setting up an aromatherapy shop, the dog's taken care of and they've got the colouring books. That's got to be the end of it. An RV, it states here homeopathy, treatment body movement therapy, yoga equipment,

visualisation classes, house cleaner three times per week until able to regulate emotions. I have gone through the full spectrum of emotions listening to this. I was shocked and then I've become extremely angry. And then I've actually started laughing, particularly body movement therapy, which is, I think, isn't it just walking or getting up out of bed? And then we get to having a house cleaner three times a week until able to regulate emotions. And I'm thinking there's just something very wrong here, actually. Somebody's really taking the mick. It certainly feels like it.

It was completely insane. However, social media loves an underdog story, and this one blew up. Like, overnight, her story got so much traction that it was even picked up by the Indy 100, which is the youth-oriented version of The Independent, a UK broadsheet. Having the attention of the national press basically kicked things off online and this welcome to the accessible was trending within minutes.

For a few weeks, it felt as though everybody on TikTok was talking about Carrie Jade, showing their support, sharing their outrage at this awful discrimination she'd experienced. Quick summary, Jade is terminally ill, she is disabled, she lives with Huntington's disease, she's also an Airbnb host and recently had some guests stay with her this year who are now trying to sue her for being disabled. This is just outrageous. We need your support. This woman has a terminal illness. Sign that petition and then share this video on repeat. If any of you know anyone that can stop this, it would be good. So there's obviously and understandably a very strong community wrapping around her at that moment.

There absolutely was. I mean, pretty much everybody who commented on these videos was on her side. But obviously this is social media and there's always naysayers and cynics. As Carrie Jade posted about the life changing sum of money she was being sued for, a number of TikTokers began to speculate and comment on the likelihood of this actually happening. What was your reaction when you first heard it? That's ridiculous. Who sues anyone for a lifetime supply of aromatherapy? I'll be honest, the suspicion for me was weighted blankets. And I'll come back to it again because I can't leave it alone. It was the lifetime supply of adult colouring books.

And so now I'm thinking, well, why? Why are these demands farcical? What's going on underneath it? Well, that was my thought too. My first thought looking at this was it's completely ridiculous. These guys sound like a bunch of scammers. Have they tried to sue anybody else for the same stuff? Ah, that's a great line of inquiry. This is why you are an investigative journalist

and I'm a schmuck in a branded T-shirt. So did you get anywhere with that? Had they sued anyone? Well, I had a look and I'll tell you what I found after the break. You massive tease. Basically, I went looking for these guests i searched online high and low booking websites you name it could not find a single thing about them so i then reached out to carrie jade herself by the contact form on her website to see if she'd give me any more details oh right so she's she's openly saying here's where you get hold of me the lines of communication are open did she get

back to you unfortunately not she didn't so i and did a bit more digging on my own. Still couldn't find anything. And at that point, I had other things to work on, so I let the story be. I mean, besides the sort of back and forth of the TikTok drama, there wasn't much else going on with it, at least until October 5th last year. The Airbnb story is a hoax committed by a serial fraudster. She's been arrested for pulling cons like this before. Okay, so October 5th, 2022, an anonymous Reddit user posted a series of links to these old

newspaper articles about a convicted fraudster. The Redditor was convinced that she and Carrie Jade were the same person. Hang on, so I thought the guests were the scammers here, but now the focus seems to be turning towards Carrie Jade. This was my thought too. I thought the guests were the scammers here, but now the focus seems to be turning towards Carrie Jade. This was my thought too. I assumed the guests were scammers, couldn't find that. So while I started digging into all this new information, the claims on the Reddit post made their way onto TikTok. And basically all hell broke loose.

This poor disabled victim of litigation was completely blown out of the water because everyone suddenly became an investigations expert and had to solve this mystery of Carrie Jade. She's hurt a lot of people in the country and, as mentioned, has pocketed a good deal of money from Irish charitable organisations. She's milked them for all they're worth. Be warned.

Several verified family members have come forward elsewhere verifying that she does not have Huntington's disease. And in the midst of all the new drama, the new explosions and revelations, did Carrie Jade actually respond? She never did. She never responded to me and didn't buy anything else on TikTok. But the story suddenly got super interesting because a couple of days after these posts went up on Reddit,

Carrie Jade posted the following statement to her website. In it, she claimed that the scammer people on Reddit were all talking about was in fact her sister. Her statement here was read by an actor. My name is Carrie Jade Williams, and I am writing this on the advice of my legal team. I am an entirely separate individual to my sister, whose mental health past has been dragged into my life as an attempt to discredit my advocacy work.

It is illegal and defamation to attempt to suggest that my sister's past is mine, when I am an entirely different individual. I am appalled that internet trolls have attempted to discredit my advocacy by bringing my sister's past and suggesting I am she. I was not aware of the full history of my sister's mental health difficulties, though we support and love her. She has moved her life onwards and not had any legal trouble in nearly a decade. I will not be providing any further comment on my sister due to the threats received. I stand in support of all those with mental health difficulties. My sister has had a long history of mental health difficulties

and is suffering due to internet trolls attacking both of us. I am not my sister and although we look similar, like many families, I am older and heavier. We live in separate locations and lead separate lives. It is defamatory to suggest that we are the same people when we are in fact separate individuals. Anyone suggesting we are the same individual will face the full force of the law.

Right, I need to take a beat now. So Carrie Jade's sister was the convicted fraudster, OK? And her past had triggered an internet witch hunt that basically forced Carrie Jade off TikTok. Well, that's what Carrie Jade claimed. But the TikTokers were getting sceptical at this point and they were going absolutely crazy over the statement. You know, they started looking into her family history

and all the rest of it. So at this point, I started my own investigation just to find the truth. So in the beginning, the biggest challenge I had was TikTok itself. I mean, there's a massive interest in true crime stories and TikTok and Reddit have a pretty murky history of wading into people's lives in the name of solving these crimes. I mean, we saw that with the horrific circus around the tragedy of Nicola Bully, did we not? Sadly, we are now able to confirm that yesterday we recovered Nicola Bulley from the River Wyre. Nicola's family have been informed and are, of course, devastated.

Nicola Bulley was a 45-year-old woman from Lancashire who disappeared and self-proclaimed online sleuths showed up in her hometown to try and solve what they thought was a crime. You do get criticism of some people saying oh why are you uploading it it's like well why is the news presenters here why is there people like yourself here I'm just doing what you're doing. I'm in search of this lady I want some answers you know there's a lot of conspiracy theories going around on the internet so I'm just trying to find some answers guys. They arrived with phone cameras, TikTok accounts, started harassing the locals in

the name of solving the crime. But of course, in reality, they made the job even harder for both journalists and the police. And I can't even bear to imagine how hard they made it for the family. It must have been absolutely horrific. I mean, luckily, while the stories are similar, all of the Carrie Jade saga was being played out online. Nobody was going looking for her in person at this point.

Still, it does feel like, and, you know, obviously I say this in full possession of the knowledge that we're making essentially a true crime podcast, but it feels that the pervasiveness of that genre means everybody wants to play detective. Everybody wants to find the truth. And of course, gain TikTok clout and popularity, which, and those two don't sit well together because being popular isn't always about truth-seeking, because sometimes the truth is rather boring and prosaic. It's not jazz hands and sensation. This is very much a thing. And there were a few TikTokers who said, you know, I'm not going to post about this. I'm withholding judgment until we know all the

facts. But honestly, most of them were either very much for her or very much against carrie jade and this basically led to a lot of infighting people calling each other out people making videos against somebody else who'd made a video and of course lots and lots of amateur sleuthing welcome to my ted talk so let's rewind two years and go back to 2020 this one says that she was diagnosed with huntington's and that she had to accept that she had to use assistive tech. Remember, this is in November, yet here we have a picture of her typing up her stories on a computer in December.

How much more evidence do you need? Oh, what's that? That's just me listening for an apology. But all the amateur sleuthing, and let's face it, the bragging rights over a story and the kind of click let's face it, the bragging rights over a story and the, you know, the kind of clickbait nature of it is stealing focus from the fact that something

in Carrie Jade's world is very wrong. I really do not want to be the sort of middle-aged lady who sort of slates social media. I use social media a lot and I love it and I can see the absolute benefits of it. So please don't, anyone listening who's a regular TikTok user, I don't want you to think that I'm sort of lumping everyone in. But some TikTokers in this particular genre get so deeply into the drama

that they do forget real people are involved. They absolutely do. And in the Carrie Jade story, finding her had become a game at this point. You know, the prize was increased popularity or being the one with the story. So it was like Pokemon, but it was for a real person who had or had not experienced online harassment. Pretty much, yeah. Gotta catch Carrie Jade. The fact that, you know, she was also a person, she had the right to exist without random bods on TikTok, posting at home address and doxing her family members, was basically forgotten or deliberately forgotten

in the rush to try and bring her down. Not to mention that at this point, the only proof anyone had of anything was a couple of old newspaper articles and that personal statement. Yes, I suppose the catnip in all of this is the ludicrous demands. That is the sort of kindling that set this fire going. How long did your investigation take once you decided to prioritise it? And what did you find along the way?

Well, my initial investigation started on a Friday afternoon, early last October. And by the following Monday, an establishment at Carrie Jade had lied about her identity. Oh, OK, that's quick. It was pretty fast. And then once I found that, I pitched the story to Vice. They commissioned it, thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround, ready to publish in a couple of weeks. I pitched the story to Vice. They commissioned it thinking it was going to be a quick turnaround,

ready to publish in a couple of weeks. Over the course of the next two months, I then uncovered five more identities and a story that was bigger, darker and more complicated than anyone could have imagined. Right, I want to know everything. All of it. So, over the course of this series, we are going to explore, one by one,

all her different identities in an attempt to find out who Carrie Jade Williams really is. Carrie Jade Williams is an au pair called Lucy. She really zoned in on how vulnerable we were at that stage. Carrie Jade Williams is a therapist called Rebecca. I put this woman in charge of my small children. I was sitting on the floor and read, I did not kill my daughter. Carrie Jade Williams is a mother.

She's put us through hell. We cannot believe that anyone can be so callous. Carrie Jade Williams is a Facebook user called Claudia. I just thought she was lovely, she was caring, she was compassionate. Carrie Jade Williams is a woman on the run. She was reported missing on Saturday 28th September. We are becoming increasingly concerned. Carrie Jade Williams does not exist.

I have a secret addiction, not to drugs or drink. There's no rehab for a girl who spends all her time online. I'm Sue Perkins. I'm Catherine Denkinson. And you're listening to Carrie Jade Does Not Exist, a podcast about how one woman, who took on over six different identities, infiltrated the lives of vulnerable people, lied her way into gaining their trust, and built up a picture-perfect persona, until she got tangled up in her own web of lies.

When I broke the full story in 2022, I was shocked by just how far Carrie's deception had gone. Reporting it took me onto planes, into hotels and family homes to uncover the truth behind over a decade of lies. So over six episodes, we're going to delve into the many lives of Carrie Jade Williams, a woman who gained people's trust by posing as exactly the person who in that moment they needed the most. An activist, a therapist, a surrogate, and a friend. To listen to episode two, The Therapist, just search Carrie Jade Does Not Exist on Acast, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Episode two comes out on Thursday the 16th of November. If you knew Carrie or indeed any of the other aliases she went by and have a

story to share, then email us at carrijadedoesnotexist at gmail.com. That's carrijadedoesnotexist, all lowercase or one word, at gmail.com. In this episode, we use clips from TikTok videos created by Ann Russell 03, In this episode, we use clips from TikTok videos created by Ann Russell 03, Trixatoria, hyphen underscore Nina underscore hyphen, and the MF Network official. We also use news clips from Times Radio and BBC News. Carrie Jade Does Not Exist is an Audio Always original production hosted by me, Sue Perkins. Katherine Denkinson reported the original story and wrote the series. It was produced by Rufaro Faith Mazarura and executive produced by Elsa Rochester.

Craig Edmondson is the sound designer and Joe Meek the editor. Are you hooked? Search Carrie J does not exist. Wherever you get your podcast to hear what happens next. And we'll be back soon with more from the Secret Mum Club.