Secretly Incredibly Fascinating - Bastille Day

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

Alex Schmidt and special guest Tom Lum explore why Bastille Day is secretly incredibly fascinating.Visit http://sifpod.fun/ for research sources and for this week's bonus episode.Come hang out with us on the SIF Discord: https://discord.gg/wbR96nsGg5

Bastille Day, known for being a holiday. Famous for being French holiday. Nobody thinks much about it, so let's have some fun. Let's find out why Bastille Day is secretly incredibly fascinating. Hey there, folks. Welcome to a whole new podcast episode, a podcast all about why being alive is more interesting than people think it is. My name is Alex Schmidt and I'm not alone. Also my wonderful co-host

Katie Golden. She is taking the week off. She'll be back soon. And I'm joined by a wonderful guest for this week's topic. Please welcome Tom Lum of Let's Learn Everything and so many other great things. I always want to sing the theme song, but then I realized if it's still fading in, I'm like, that's's gonna be horrible Hello they're like three-quarters of a tone off it's It's a real poly rhythm going on y'all recently did an episode with that wonderful pianist right David Bennett Yes, yes, cuz he wait I pulled his stuff for our

Paca Bell's Canon episode oh amazing and then just watch like his whole channel because it's yeah yeah so I'm thinking about music with you too yeah love a good source appreciator and if anyone is it's it's y'all oh yeah yeah people should hear that how are you doing doing good doing good this will immediately after the show, but you can still keep up with it. I'll probably have some clips from it, but I've just done, as this is coming out, the first of my science game show in New York City called Our Finding Show. Amazing. And it went so well. It's going to happen in the future of this recording, but I can make some predictions. It went so well. It's gonna happen in the future of this recording, but I can make some predictions It went so well. Whoa, oh every everyone in New York City went there and it was so great. Whoa Obama was there the satellite images of the crowds were really exciting. It was pretty wild

Yeah, cuz caveat seats less than the population of New York City. So everybody was outside. Yeah, it was great Yeah, yeah, super cool Yeah, they're ever the line was so long that everyone was like in their respective Apartments and like going about their days in New York City, but but they were in life. Trust me. They were in line I might have looked like everyone was just like living their lives, but but they were in line You can find all that info and possibly future ticket dates at our findings show.com It's such a good title. Thank you. I'm gonna link Tom's very good video Mentioning the title. Yeah, it took me so long to come up with it. I

I said that was genuinely one of the things that took the longest was Having a word cloud of like science words and game show words Something I'm glad I'm not the only person who stares at lists of words to try to figure out a title. This is good. It's a pretty validating... Alex, what are we gonna, what are we gonna talk about today? Because that's what I'm excited about to be here right now. Yeah, and we always start with our relationship to the topic or opinion of it. Tom, what do you think of Bastille Day?

I'm going to be completely honest. And this is good for you and good for the podcast, but bad for me. I think I know like embarrassingly little about this, given how much I should know. Like, especially having two British co-hosts and this is a British thing? It's French. So I think you're actually in solidarity with your British co-host. Opposition to France. Tom, come back! Tom!

Oh no! Oh no! Oh god! Oh god! Um... Okay. And as I tell any guest, almost the less you know going in, the better. Like, you don't need to know anything about this coming in

Okay, I do know that This is the topic of V for vendetta. Oh No, not really this guy Fox day. Oh my god I feel like you're more and more in solidarity with L and Caroline of British stuff. But it's kind of the vibe of Guy Flax. I'm like, okay, okay. I know at the very least this is what Jurassic Park is about, right? That's what that movie is about, please! Oh, good lord. Okay. Okay. Hi, I'm here. I'm excited to learn so much apparently

Yeah, thank you so much for diving in because because also like my relationship to it is like as an American you can Spend your all of your time trying to learn history and not really know anything about best deal day Like we don't think about the French a lot and so it's just kind of in the background now is is the band? Bastille and all related to this in any capacity are they French? I think they're British, but they're named after it Britain keeps coming out for some reason that was my confusion That's my reason why I thought it was Guy Fawkes day Exactly. Oh boy. It has fireworks like Guy Fawkes Day, you know. Yeah.

Okay, okay, okay. Maybe that's, maybe, maybe, maybe I can, I can, I can work this back up. But this is great. I have truly so much to learn. And it was thrilling researching this. I knew so little and there's a lot here and it's really illuminating, especially if you're American because it is both super similar and super different to the Fourth of July. That's how that's called.

Oh. And this was suggested by Decoupe Bear on the Discord. Thank you for picking this topic, folks in the polls. And I'm glad you brought up that band, because on every episode we lead with a quick set of fascinating numbers and statistics. This week that is in a segment called, but if you read the stats

Does it almost feel like numbers changed at all? Thank you Tom, thank you. Yeah That name was submitted by Andy Thompson and because they saw this was a topic, Bastille Day. So thank you. We have a new name every week. Please make a Macillion Wacky and Bass possible. Submit through Discord or to cifpod.gmail.com.

And the first number this week is July 14th, 1789. Because that's the date of the storming of the Bastille. Say that year one more time. 1789. 1789. 1789. So, it's a little bit after the American Revolution and it's, a lot of people see it as the start of the French Revolution. They're like, that was pretty cool.

Yeah. Because, yeah, the Bastille was a fort that was really a heavily fortified prison where especially the French monarchy put its key prisoners. And so a crowd stormed the Bastille and freed the prisoners. Rock and roll. And that date informs the Bastille Day holiday. It's July 14th every year. So if you're listening when this comes out, it's next Monday.

That's a wild origin of a thing to celebrate. I love that. I wonder, and I'd be very curious to hear, and maybe you'll tell me, but maybe some French listeners can say in the Discord, sort of like, how that, because I mean, good golly, July 4th, I feel like has been painted over like a million times to where it's just sort of like this wildly symbolic, almost sometimes overly nationalistic thing where it's like, what are we really celebrating? Yeah.

I'd be curious sort of how that has evolved and maybe we'll learn about exactly that, we'll see. But if not, I'd be curious to see any French listeners in the Discord. I also host a podcast. I'm always here for the Discord shout out. I got you. Thank you so much.

Yeah. And let's turn everything as a wonderful Discord. People should see it dang. Yeah, and and we'll do both things we'll talk about especially what it's been over time and also I mean absolutely tell us about it in France because it has also meant a lot of things to a lot of people and The next number here is July 13th Because many French people apparently start celebrating the night before on July 13th Bastille day Eve. Yeah And it's cuz a big part of it is fireworks and so you want the evening to do that

Oh, so that makes sense among other sources this week Rick Steves the European travel expert from the United States He says that he has been to Bastille day celebrations both the nights of July 13th and 14th. Because like on the 14th during the day, there's a military parade in the middle of Paris. And most businesses close, people like have picnics or a big meal. But the night of the 14th and also the night of the 13th, people launch fireworks. And on the 13th, it's organized by fire departments to fundraise for charity or for volunteer firefighting. Nice. Can I say I know for a fact that French, and maybe this is part of the reason, I didn't realize French fireworks celebrations and just celebrations in general go so much harder

than the US at the least in this comparison because I was watching the New Year's Eve ball drop in New York City and then with the folks I was watching with we were like, let's just see what it was like in other places in the world and Paris absolutely crushed it and we were like, oh my god. Like we watched it like multiple times and then we went back to the New York where we were like, we are nothing in comparison. These guys are kicking butt.

Yeah, New Year's is a good chance to see other cities go wild. You'll just put on the thing and since it's a different time zone, it's like, oh, Macau really goes off. And then he keeps going around the world and you're like, ah, Moscow's not doing that good. And then go to the next one. Yeah, we do. A review of the world, yeah, based doing that good. You know, I guess the next one. Yeah. Yeah a review of the world Yeah based on based on that celebration And yeah, and so France does this really big on kind of two days

And the last number here quick number section is at least two other names Because French people tend not to call this Bastille day. Oh It's only Bastille day if it's in the Bastille region of France, as I understand it. Anyways, it's sparkling old prison. One of the first names for the holiday was La Fête de la Fédération, which just translates basically to national celebration. It's also been modernized to La Fête Nationale, Fête Nationale Française, just lots of words

for celebrating the nation. Yeah. Because Bastille Day is a national day. That's the name for any holiday that celebrates a country like the 4th of July or Canada Day, something like that. Gotcha, gotcha. And the even more common name in France is just the basic French words for the 14th of July. You know what?

Like the 4th of July. That works. Yeah. Yeah. So, 14th of July, that's just what you say. Rock and roll. So if somebody calls it Bastille Day, they're probably not French. It's like that in Glorious Basterds, you hold up the three the wrong way.

Yes. Okay, good to know. People won't be mad, but it's not what they say really. Not calling it Bastille Day gets us into mega takeaway number one. The holiday Americans call Bastille Day actually celebrates the anniversary of the anniversary of storming the Bastille. I'm sorry what? Very complicated. Now this seat on the surface when you say that seems pedantic. If it's the anniversary of, I feel like those numbers zero out.

Oh, right. Okay, but I'm very curious what this means. That's a good call. It's like, oh, actually the 4th of July is a holiday of a holiday. Like no, no. But it took a long time for French people to start regularly celebrating this anniversary. And in order to set that up, they needed to frame it as celebrating

a like unity festival that happened one year after the storming of the Bastille on the same day. Really interesting. Cause not everybody was super on board with a French Revolution the whole time. Or even liked the king and stuff. So this was, at the start of it, it was already a sort of like a compromise, a little, or a little like a hidden holiday there. Yeah, they like they held a big party on the one year anniversary of storming the Bastille, but it was not quite a celebration of overthrowing the king yet, especially because they had not overthrown the king yet. Yeah, it's sort

of like how the Fourth of July for me is actually a celebration of the the song by Sufjan Stevens, the Fourth of July. But I can, so I celebrate it, I go absolutely wild, but secretly it's for that. Yeah, I'm from Illinois and spent a lot of time in Michigan, I understand, I get it. Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. Yeah, this, like, only one faction in France celebrated July 14th as the storming of the Bastille.

And it took almost 100 years for it to be an official holiday. And it still wasn't quite celebrating that. Interesting. It's more of a British and American understanding that this is all about the Bastille and overthrowing the king. Oh, okay. That's a good framing of it, yeah. Yeah.

Which I had no idea. You just think it's about, oh, they stormed the Bastille, which is also not a super famous event to everybody either. So. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, there's a lot of sources for this takeaway. Writing for theconversation.com by historians Romaine Faffey and Claire Rieu, and a lot of JSTOR Daily pieces. They're by Matthew Wills, Alison Miller, and Alexandra Frank. And then a book called Fallen Glory, the Lives and Deaths of History's Greatest Buildings. Jared Sussman Oh, what a title. Matt McChesney It's a cool book. There's a whole Bastille chapter. It's great. James Crawford is a

scholar on the staff of Scotland's national collection. He wrote that book. But yeah, the Bastille was a notorious and hated giant prison on the eastern side of Paris. And it was like in a very urban area. Apparently people have gone on to paint it looking bigger than it was just because they wanted it to loom like a Death Star. But it was only about eight stories tall. And it was where the French monarchy put like political prisoners and people Like if you went through a normal French trial, they didn't look at the Bastille as a prison option It was for like it was like a black site to disappear people for the government. Whoa, as it was just like that's why people stormed it

That's super irrelevant to modern times and I don't understand any Any it's not like multiple of those come to mind and I'm glad that we've moved past that as a society. Haha. Deep breath, move on. We both just go into like a Sherlock Holmes mind palace of New York Times articles. Like oh, oh, oh god. But people also sort of understand storming the Bastille as the start of the French Revolution,

but there were a lot of events that led to it before that. The French Revolution is like an entire giant podcast, but the super short version is France had kings for many centuries, and then they organized the population into three groups that they called estates. The first estate was Catholic clergy, the second estate was aristocrats, and the third estate was everyone else except for people who were enslaved in the colonies. And then the French king gave a lot of benefits to those first two groups of people. And then the entire rest of the population, some estimates say up to 98% of people, started

trying to form a legislature. And then the king cracked down on it. And also there were some bad crop harvests. And by like the 1780s, people were ready to start a revolution. Yeah, that'll do it. If you try to oppress 98% of the population, that is difficult to keep going. Yeah, yeah. You need like an army of robots or something to manage that for you.

They didn't have that. Hold on, writing down, sci-fi best deal day for me. And so yeah, then 1787, they try to assemble what they would call a National Assembly. King Louis XVI crushes that and withdraws the little bit of power the Third Estate had. There's protests, riots, violence. And then about a month before Bastille Day, the storming of the Bastille, the Third Estate officially declares a national assembly and demands a constitutional monarchy. And they have enough support from the other clergy

and nobles in the first two estates that the king can't crush it yet. And so then there's like a month of everybody sitting around waiting to see what will happen. And then there are rumors that the king has brought in all of his troops from outside Paris to come and kill all the rebels in Paris. And there's also a rumor that he's stashed 31,000 pounds of gunpowder in the basement of the Bastille. And so they say, if we storm the Bastille, we can take all his gunpowder and he can't kill us. These are, you are, I wish, I wish you were my history teacher.

I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm hyped for this. I'm like, this is just history. This is great. I should, I'll keep bringing up robot armies too. That felt great the first time and... If you see me flying, you're like, and then, and then they do an old jet pack. I, funny, no joke, a couple years ago at the Bastille Dayille day parade a guy flew around on an experimental jetpack No, and like there's clips of Macron watching it and stuff. That's why I mentioned it

Yeah, I knew I knew I'm playing dumb for the for the episode Tom's dressed like a French cartoon character. He knows everything about France Arc de Triomphe behind me. I'm here. So there's a lot of rumors and real reasons that the population of Paris is saying, if we're going to keep up this idea of having a legislature that has any power, we need to start violently overthrowing some things. And so they decide, let's seize the Bastille. On July 14th, the crowd gathers and the Bastille is only defended by several dozen semi-retired

soldiers, like guys who are on a pension. It's a very easy to defend fortress, but there's almost no troops in it. And by around five o'clock that day, the fort is overrun. Because it's not that big, people are able to climb to the roof of a perfume shop and cut the chains on a drawbridge from the roof to just like get in. It's very easy to take over. Oh, the details like that are so cool. Maybe if anybody knows a factoid fun fact about the Bastille,

it's that there were only seven prisoners. What? There were not actually that many people they freed. What? Yeah. This one, they each get one story of this building, basically. Yeah, and it also turns out the French government was approaching winding down the Bastille. So that's also why there weren't that many guys in it.

But yeah, there were four guys accused of doing forged documents. One guy who had tried to kill the previous King of France 30 years earlier. There was one Irish noble who his own family had requested that he be imprisoned because of mental issues Like the prisoners were not important at all who they freed Yeah That was quite a twist cuz I was really expecting You know a flooding of people being like It's like I'm gonna keep on pushing those documents baby

Let's go. Yeah, it is. It's like, unlike most events that are famous in a revolution, this did not change the situation. Yeah. Like, the people were still upset about it at the King, and the King was upset at them. And then like, taking the best deal did not change military things or like, free the new leader of the revolution or anything It was just like an event

But I'm still sure really Really cool and in some ways good that it can be symbolic without having to have been Huge or I guess I don't know. It's just interesting. Maybe like easy win. That's a Feels like a big moment kind of a thing. I don't know. It's just interesting. Maybe like easy win. That's a deals like a big moment kind of a thing I don't know. I'm not I'm not Debating what's it French politics of the 1700s? I'm not I'm not here though here backseat quarterback having just learned all this But it's interesting No, it is and easy win is right

like it did help stiffen people's resolve to try to keep pushing for some kind of republic and Then what happens from there is it takes a couple more years? help stiffen people's resolve to try to keep pushing for some kind of republic and Then what happens from there is it takes a couple more years To like finally begin arranging a republic they don't execute the king for about three years and So that means that when the one-year anniversary of this easy win at the Bastille comes around They want to throw a party for it and the king is still the king. Yeah, that's a great point. There's three really awkward years where it's like, huh.

Yeah, yeah. Because you imagine it happening all at once, you know? Exactly. I love those like hilariously awkward and very real moments of history where it's like, and then after that someone after that someone probably had to open up the perfume shop and be like, God, they got boot marks on the roof. I gotta clean that now and head back to work for like a little bit, you know, and that there were like three awkward years where it's like, There were like three awkward years where it's like, I don't know, you know what I mean? That's how things work in reality, right?

You don't get a montage, you know? Yeah, truly. And maybe the biggest difference between the French Revolution and the American Revolution is that they had to do it in the same place as their oppressive monarchy, and it took almost a century to finally start being fully democratic, no king either looming or in charge. Very interesting point, yeah. That means that with Bastille Day we have a mini takeaway number two. The French monarchy celebrated the first Bastille Day.

Like a riot against them, they were part of the party one year later. Which is really weird to think about. Like we think of it as just there was Bastille Day and then all the heads got cut off and there were tricolor flags. But like no, it was a whole mess, very complex. Yeah, was it like a feeling of like, oh ho ho, good job, you did a little thing, or was it just sort of like, I don't know, let's party too. Was it trying to reclaim it? What's the vibe of that feeling? Having been there yourself, obviously. Wee wee wee, wee wee. And also, any French listeners, any

French listeners who were born in the 1700s, please let us know in the Discord. It's an excellent question. It seems like one year later, everyone involved wanted to claim that they were in charge and that they were leading the country in a good way. Especially like the sort of constitutional monarchy concepts. Since the king was still alive and not totally out of power yet, he wanted to like play along while he schemed to regain total power. You know what?

Actually, I'm, you know, let's not say who, but actually I was able to mentally reframe it where I was like, Oh, I could see an American president wanting to, you know, quote unquote, like reclaim something or be like, I'm celebrating this now too and I'm like I can I do actually understand God I wish this wasn't so prescient I wish this I wish this wasn't so relatable where I'm like of course right I know someone I know a world leader who would do the exact same thing right like be like ready to the take credit. Well, as soon as you said that, I was like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And like, unlike the American revolution, they're all on top of each other. Like the American revolution, the Kings over across the ocean. So you can just, like, we started celebrating the 4th of July, the next year. People set off fireworks in Philadelphia and like, it was an immediate holiday.

I hadn't thought about that. Wow, really. And then, meanwhile, in France, the revolutionaries want to throw a party to cement the change they're making, and the king wants to make clear he's still important. So he's like, if there's a party, obviously, I'm an honored guest, and basically leading the party, right? Yeah. And so everyone holds a party one year later, July 14th, 1790.

That's incredible. Yeah, and it's like officially branded as a celebration of unity in France. Like it's a French celebration of French stuff. Yeah. And there is limited or no mention of the Bastille getting stormed. It just happens to be the day they're doing it, is the framing.

And volunteers build a triple arch monument and a pavilion, a bunch of other stuff in the middle of Paris. A crowd of 300,000 people come despite it raining. Wow. And the National Assembly does stuff, but also King the 16th and his wife Marie Antoinette Like they hold up their son to the crowd and everyone cheers and like they're very involved in this Wow, that's that's some real like I

Don't know Chekhov's gun drama. It's some dramatic irony if I've ever seen it. It's like man. Yeah Oh, I I look exactly. I love the like human drama, it's like, man. Yeah. I, I, I love exactly. I love the like human drama of it. It's so interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So that's really the first Bastille day, right? Like it's the first party one year later and everyone is involved because everyone

is still scheming to hold more power. Like the national assembly is starting to run some things. The king is still the king. Everyone's kind of like smiling and plotting, you know. Yeah, wow. And so then by the following year, 1791, everyone is too angry at each other to hold a second National Unity Party.

Things have advanced and progressed. Yeah. And a little bit later that month, Louis the 16th's troops kill protesters other to hold a second National Unity Party. Things have advanced and progressed. And a little bit later that month, Louis XVI's troops kill protesters and it really starts to get to the violent revolution now. It's only so long you can pretend to claim credit or fake this. Yeah. And especially because the French monarchy had been like holding absolute power with a big god signed off on this vibe for centuries.

So it was hard for them to just immediately pivot and be like canny and political, you know? Yeah. And then by the following July, Louis has like convinced other monarchical European countries to invade France to try to stop the revolution and put him back on the throne and so After that first Bastille Day celebration, it's just wars and violence for France and it makes it hard to like celebrate, you know Yeah, I mean it just makes it all the more wild that there was the one That was sort of almost like an awkward cacophony where it's like we're all celebrating. It's like wait. What are you celebrating again?

Yeah, that's yeah, man and Then from there, there's like several regime changes in France This is gonna summarize like a hundred years of French history But basically the different regimes try to pick different national days than July 14th Really? They say, no, other events should be our holiday. Wow. Yeah.

Because the king, as he tries to hold power... I'm sorry. It's so telling of me that the idea of governments arguing over what day to celebrate is fascinating. I don't know why that's the thing I would have clicked on. I'm glad. Because I guess it's the drama and it's the, there's some, I don't know why, but I was just like, I wanna see that drama. But I just heard myself be so excited about that.

I was like, you nerd, you nerd. No, I'm the same way, I'm so glad. Because yeah, like in a lot of European monarchies. They would just there would not really be a national day There would just be a big party on the King's birthday or the King's coronation day Right, and I gotta say that's the great thing about having a king is you got that day locked down We all have it in the calendar You gotta say you can't not admit that that that was a really handy thing about the Marquis. We had that, we knew which day to celebrate on.

You gotta hand it to the kings. You do in fact have to hand it to them. And so across the 1790s, there's like revolutions, there's there's kings trying to reestablish themselves. And then the French Revolution quickly leads to Napoleon becoming basically a military dictator. And Napoleon says, basically like a king, now my personal birthday and baptism day is the national day. And then when he gets overthrown,

the British and Russians prop back up the French monarchy who start doing their royal days. And then that's followed by a sort of democratic guy named Louis Philippe I, who they call a citizen king. Because basically people did like half of a revolution in order to put him on the throne and make him more amenable to democracy. It's very hard to explain. Hmm. Louis Philippe tries to do a new national day honoring the formation of his sort of constitutional monarchy. Then there's a new republic in 1848. They set a national day based on when their legislature met the first time. That gets overthrown by Napoleon's nephew who does a new military dictatorship and makes his personal day the day.

Oh my god. And then finally in 1870, France loses a war and then institutes a republic in the aftermath just because people want change. And so like almost a century after the French Revolution started, they finally are in a fully democratic and Republican situation. Oh boy. And then that Republic struggles to set a national day because people still don't agree on how France should run.

For sure, for sure. And this is just emblematic of that. Yeah, like there was one pitch to set the day of June 20th, which was an event before storming the Bastille when the National Assembly like agreed to definitely demand a new constitution. It's called the tennis court oath. They gathered on a tennis court because there were so many of them and agreed. And then there were royalists who tried to set a national day for the exiled king's birthday.

And there were also left-wing radicals on the other end who pushed for the anniversary of cutting Louis XVI's head off. Yeah. Oh boy. Wow. Many different perspectives here. All very charged. I didn't realize how charged a day could be until you thought until some people thought it should be the guy's birthday and some people thought it should be the guy's death day. I feel like that's as divisive as you can get. Wow. It does feel like if you're going to pitch that I'm going to pitch this.

Like if we're going to decade, there's just no French National Day because nobody can agree. And then in 1880, a member of the National Assembly named Benjamin Respail submits a motion to make July 14th the National Day. And I know we've thrown around a lot of dates. July 14th is the day that the Bastille was stormed but Raspail does not pitch it as that he pitches it as we should just have a national day that day and in particular we can honor the party one year after storming the Bastille where everyone was so unified

that would be a good thing to honor Wow that's his like 3D chess way of making best deal day a day. I know you literally said this at the start, but now having heard it again after knowing the context, I'm like, that's fascinating. Because for like, that's dramatic irony day in many ways as much as it is unity right because it is in many ways I'm sure was a I don't know genuine and backhanded I'm sure a little bit a little bit column A a little bit column B. That's wild though that's clever. It's exactly like it's basically by 1880 the royalist French people pretty much know, okay We're probably not gonna have power again

But the win we can get is making the national day not specifically celebrating the Bastille Yeah, we can make it this different party one year later where the king was liked by everybody Hey, why would people celebrate that day? Don't worry about that. Don't worry about that part. Yeah, yeah. Wow. And so everybody liked that idea well enough and didn't have a better pitch. And it also meant they didn't go with cutting the king's head off or celebrating an exiled king, you know? And so finally in 1880, they made July 14th a generic French national holiday. About nothing in particular. And so that's why a lot of French people call it the 14th of July. It's not all the way Bastille Day.

It's also the most designed by committee answer to be like this day when we were all kind of celebrating for different reasons and yeah. Yeah, and so I I really love that. It's so specific and weird and yeah, yeah different from the 4th of July. Totally. Even though like today, it's a very vague patriotic somewhat militaristic fireworks party that's almost exactly like the 4th of July. But the origin and name and meaning is so different. patriotic, somewhat militaristic fireworks party that's almost exactly like the 4th of July. But the origin and name and meaning is so different. Because when you were describing the militaristic aspects of it, I was like, was that part of

the storming of the Bastille? I feel like it was nearly the opposite. So yeah. Right, right. Yeah, the actual French military opposed the storming of the Bastille with weapons. People were killed trying to storm it, like they did fight. But yeah, now that now the French president and guests watch a military parade in the middle of Paris.

Wild. Wild, wild. And we'll link the jetpack guy. That's still amazing. Yeah, and folks, that's two takeaways, numbers, gigantic history of France. It's amazing. Yeah, and folks, that's two takeaways, numbers, gigantic history of France. We're going to take a quick break and then get into even weirder Bastille stuff.

We're back and back with a couple more takeaways because takeaway number three, the Bastille originated as a fortified gate project before getting way out of hand and killing both of its lead builders. What? I don't know if I fully believed you that this was going to get weirder because I feel like we had already reached peak weird. Yeah. What? Paying it off.

Yeah, this, the Bastille has probably been one of the most hated buildings in European history. And it was initially just supposed to be like a gate with some towers on it on the eastern side of the city of Paris. But then like Mission Creep happened in a lot of ways. I can't, I know you're gonna summarize it at the end, but I can't help myself. One of the most hated buildings in a place then became the source of a celebration that then became the national holiday. Like the layers on this is Amazing like it goes. It's it's it there's so many

Like layers of sediment that you can keep digging through to be like Oh, we found this here in the history of this of this of the single holiday name and day right like So, please please continue. I want to hear all about this horrible building. I love a hated building. It's spooky in a fun way. Like, I'm not a big true crime person or anything, but I find it spooky and interesting. A key source here, along with the previously cited book, is a piece for the New York Times by journalist Eric Fanner. Because, for one thing, people who speak French may know this, but the word Bastille is like

a generic word for a fortified gate. That's why this building got called The Bastille. Are you kidding me? Yeah, I know. I really should have asked. Question that, of course. Wow. I figured it was the guy's last name if I had had to guess.

Yeah. It's just Fortified gate day. And today if you go to the, it's the 11th arrondissement, like it's on the eastern but central side of what's now the giant city of Paris and way back in the 1300s when they started building this it was on the like wall around Paris on the outside. Gotcha. Both of the people who steered building it were killed by it, basically. In 1356, a guy named Etienne Marcel, he had a job called provost of Paris merchants, which

basically meant he handled a lot of money for the city of Paris. And the king ordered him to build two new fortified gates, one to the north, one to the east. And the one to the east called the port Saint Antoine eventually becomes a Bastille fort. Got you, got you. And also in the process of building this, Marcel apparently also got involved in like coordinating the passage of soldiers in and out of the gate. And so two years after he began construction, an army of the Kingdom of Navarre is coming through.

There's some kind of disagreement and a soldier puts an axe through his head. Ah. And then he dies in the shadow of his own Bastille. Wow. It feels very cursed from jump. Yeah. Man. And yeah, and then like the city of Paris is also rapidly expanding and so ten years after they finished the gate

There's a new provost of Paris merchants His name is Hughes Obreau and the king orders Hughes to turn that fortified gate into its own fort Because the city's kind of outgrown the walls, so they'll just make that a fort that's slightly inside of the city Gotcha, and so that becomes a fortress Give this renovation. We'll turn this into Turn this into a kitchen island or something like that. It's like yeah. Yeah, we'll just we were this yeah Pretty much like oh the gate part can now be the gate of a fort is the like sudden thrown-together idea Yeah, yeah, we already have one wall there. Yeah

And it becomes a standalone fortress and by the end of the 1300s It's eight towers with a curtain wall between them And it protects them against invasions from like German speaking people and Italian speaking people to the east mm-hmm and also and Italian speaking people to the East. And also, Aubrey O ends up one of the very first prisoners in it. He was in charge of building the whole thing. What? But also, he was someone who opposed the persecution of Jewish people. He was for Jewish people being treated like humans.

And a lot of the king's advisors disagreed with them. Oh my god And the king dies gets replaced by like a child and then the regents Accused Obreo of a bunch of stuff and throw him in a dungeon in the Bastille Wow So both the guys who built it had horrible outcomes. Oh My god, you are 100% right that it's so cursed. What a cursed building.

Yeah. Wow. And then as soon as the 1400s, the French monarchy officially declares it a prison and basically everybody who gets thrown in there is thrown in on just the king's words or someone who has the king's ears words. It's really not a prison for people who go through due process. They're just chucked in it. My God.

And so that's why rebels were pretty willing to destroy it. Yeah, yeah, that'll do it. It was still for that purpose like 300 years later. My god. The other wild thing about it is our other takeaway number four. There is a bizarre legacy of Bastille souvenirs and Bastille monuments. Now see this was what I was actually one of my next thoughts was like, what is a tour of the Bastille like nowadays? Or like, how do we remember the...

Because we haven't... We've talked about the movement of the day, but what about the building itself? And so yes, please, I'm ready to dig into what this could possibly mean. Basically everyone in France, the only thing they could agree on about the storming of the Bastille is that the Bastille should be destroyed. Like even people who wanted to keep the monarchy were like, let's destroy this evil building. I hate it so much. They're like, wait you guys hate it too? It's like, yeah we just kept it for political prisoners for you. It's a real a gift of the match You hated it too

one of my favorite nuggets about it is that July 14 1789 they storm it and free all the prisoners and stuff and A couple weeks before that the employees of the French monarchy had drawn up a proposal to Destroy the Bastille and replace it with a public park like Like they also did not care about keeping it or having it. Once again, a thing I remember you mentioning very briefly at the start, but now with the context is hilarious. No one likes the building. Oh my god. When it was stormed the French monarchy had decided this is not worth the trouble. Like it's it was in the middle of very urban Paris, like this horrible, evil prison and a prominent symbol of the government being bad. And the government said, let's destroy it to make

people a little happier. Like we don't, we don't need to keep that many people there. Like what are we doing? So yeah, that it led to one of the wildest like souvenir trades in series of monuments because it's storm July 14th and one day later a noble named the Comte de Mirabeau goes to the top of one of the towers and like ceremonially breaks off a piece of the top of the tower and the whole crowd cheers below and like everyone is excited to absolutely level and destroy the Bastille. Bastille, get your Bastille here. Yes.

Wow, the next day, immediately after. The following day, they're like, let's start demolishing and leveling this horrible building. Wow. And they do. By that November, like within a few months and with 1700s technology, they level it to the ground. What? It's gone, yeah.

What? And the king is still the king. Like he is like, I'm fine with that. Like I just want to keep power. Like I hate that place too. Great. Like he is like, I'm fine with that. Like I just want to keep power. Like I hate that place too, great. I'm really, this is just such a shock to me. I really thought, I really thought this gosh darn building was extant for at least a little bit longer,

given how important it is. I mean, I understand raising it to the ground too, but also like in my mental memory I'm like, sure surely they you know they had the party in the thing or something like or maybe they yeah it's gone in a few months. Yeah, exactly. It's also like one of the only royalist, royal associated buildings in France that got destroyed by the revolution. Like they turned palaces and castles into historic sites or museums or like most everything else they kept. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Versailles is still there like that's that's all fine. But this building. Yeah, this one is Absolute I

saw yeah, oh my god and They not only completely dismantled it. They turned a lot of the like bricks and stone into new different buildings. Oh Amazing one of the bridges over theine is the Pont de la Concorde. It's built out of a lot of Bastille rubble. Wow. And then other businessmen turned the bricks into like, they would take the brick, carve it a little bit and turn it into a model of the Bastille and then sell a Bastille model made of a Bastille brick. That's actually quite cool. That's fun.

The best guy is his name is Pierre Francois Palois. Palois hired more than 1,000 people to do two jobs at once. Like the whole neighborhood he hires guys to both help him fulfill contracts to demolish it and run ticketed tours of the dungeon spaces. Wow. Which were like subterranean, so they were still left last. And so like, half his guys are breaking it down and the other half are like, and this is where this prisoner was, and this is where this prisoner was for money.

It's like a whale fall. Like, it's created this mini ecosystem. That's incredible. I love that, honestly. At first I was like, am I gonna like this? And I'm like, no, this rules. Truly, because it's a cultural whale fall too. Like, a lot of French writers especially also got put in there.

And also one of the most notorious people for throwing people in the Bastille was Cardinal Richelieu. And Cardinal Richelieu was a real life early 1600s noble, but then he becomes a famous villain in fiction. He's the bad guy and the three musketeers and stuff. And the writer Voltaire spent 11 months there for writing upsetting poetry about the monarchy. The Marquis de Sade was jailed there and wild away the hours by writing graphic sexual fiction on toilet paper, like a roll of toilet paper.

He would just use that to be an author while he was jailed. Now can I say, I'm glad you continued on because I was about to interject to be like, oh yeah, critical poetry is sort of like, is like making a tweet. But then you said, writing Volkerstof on the roll of toilet paper. And I'm like, that, no, that's the metaphor for Twitter actually. Actually that one is the one that's, that's what Twitter is, if anything else. More and more Tweety. Oh yeah.

Wow. And also people developed a possibly real story into an entire famous character of the man in the iron mask. I feel like this, it rings a bell. Yeah. Yeah, there was a movie of it like 20, 30 years ago and there was an alleged political prisoner who was forced to wear an iron mask over his face in the Bastille so that no one would know who they were. Because it was

like embarrassing to his jailers that he was there and then that became a whole legend. Like people hated the prison for real reasons and then also many French writers and artists built on that and exaggerated it Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm So so also the tours did really well and the souvenirs did really well and like it was a whole man Yeah, exactly cultural economic whale fall like it just turned into Wow a bunch of stuff for Paris Absolutely wild absolutely wild. Yeah, and also George Washington collected Bastille stuff. I mean, yeah, I would too, but wild. If people don't know, maybe the most important person from outside the US in the American Revolution was the Marquis de Lafayette, a young French general.

And he gifted George Washington a key from the Bastille and also an illustration of the former prison. And Washington would like display that at Mount Vernon and at his presidential offices and was very proud of his Bastille souvenirs. I just had the thought of the marquee going to George Washington being like, and we hated this building and we turned it into a... And then like just recounting everything you've said, like being like, and then we turned it from a wall into a building and then get this the day after these guys are turning it into the, and George Washington was like, I'm is eating this up. He's like,

give me this merge. Let me. Wow. He's a real Francophile. He loved, he loved French culture. He was a, he was a French weeb. He was like, I want to get all this merch. Jefferson really was. He was such a French weeb. Oh yeah. Yeah. And yet the world was thrilled. It was seen as a real symbol of liberty, specifically destroying this building. That's why Washington wanted this stuff. And also then France was

in such a hurry to demolish it, they kind of made a massive monument to replace it. Like that didn't go very well because they just like, they were so hardcore about break, break, break. They didn't plan a monument to later and then it was a messy process. Yeah. The French parliament authorized a like freedom column on a foundation stone, but then they were at war with a couple countries and couldn't pay for it. And so then in 1793, a few like rich patrons paid for a plaster statue of the goddess Isis, like the Egyptian goddess Isis. And they also rigged it up with plumbing so that its breasts spouted water as a metaphor for the milk of liberty. And that's just like, they were able to do that because nobody else had set up something. It was just like weird. And apparently it crumbled after about eight years because the water beat up the plaster and it doesn't work.

I need you to include every second of my stunned silence. I can't, every sentence of that really. The statue's symbolic lactation destroyed itself. Yes, yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, an Egyptian goddess in Paris for a cursed prison location. Yeah, yeah. Uh- Hahahaha! Lest, lest we forget those details, yeah. Yeah, and then-

Oh my god. Oh my god. And then that crumbles, and then Napoleon is military dictator in for a while and in 1813 Napoleon says the site of the Bastille should be a now a site for a statue commemorating my empire all over the world and So he says let's build a bronze elephant And the bronze elephant will have a trunk that sprays water. And also there'll be like stairs so you can go into the interior.

I know plumbing's really cool, but like what? I was gonna say that as a joke, then also some milk comes out of his mouth or something like that. Oh my God. Yeah, they were really, they had a hard on for fountains. I don't know why. It's weird. And then the trouble is Napoleon was fighting too many wars, so instead of a bronze elephant

they did a plaster model. Yet again they're running water through plaster. You fools! What's it? Build a plaster monument that sprays water once? Shame on me. Build a second plaster monument that sprays water? Shame on me again. Both times shame on me. And yeah, and apparently this like slowly decaying plaster elephant was left up for 33 years. slowly decaying plaster elephant was left up for 33 years. And it's also been immortalized in Les Miserables, the Victor Hugo novel. He describes a street urchin living in it and there's rats in it. So that's become another horrible fiction from Bastille problems. And then they finally build What's There Today, which is a public plaza with a stone column

they did that in the late 1830s and Last thing about this because it wraps around to the whole what is this holiday? The column is officially named the July column Okay Even though it is a monument on the actual location where the Bastille was, it's not a Bastille monument. It's just that month. It's just a cool month.

We built this monument for a really fun month. Yeah, it's so- Oh my God. Faken thrown together. It was built by, I mentioned it briefly and he's confusing, but the citizen king Louis Philippe I, like a king who had popular support and was sort of democratic. He took power toward the end of July in 1830. And so he built the monument officially to mark his government happening in the month

of July. Are you kidding me? But also picked that because the month of July is the Bastille month. And so it's like vaguely not a Bastille monument. Even though it's in the exact spot where the Bastille was. It's like fighting for SEO, right? They're like, oh I'll just make July more about this actually. I'm right.

The best deals in the metadata, but it's not on the front. Yeah. Wow. Sorry. I, I'm just, I'm just like the phrase slowly decaying plaster elephants still lingering around but, but the July monument is a close second also in my brain right now. That's great. Yeah. Wow. It's such a such a like double speak of it all the like hidden meanings the like indirect references of it all is really fascinating. Yeah. My god. God. I don't know. It's just like

it was just like really hiddenly extremely interesting almost. I guess you could say really like a… Hang on. Hiddenly extreme. I'm writing it down. Hang on. Yeah. Now I want to find some Bastille merch.

Now I want a little Bastille made of the Bastille. It does sound fun. It's also like for being cursed, it's a nice looking castle, you know? It looks normal. It doesn't look like it's But it is evil Folks that's the main episode for this week want to say a quick Thank you again to Tom Lum who is is our buddy, one of the hosts of Let's Learn Everything here on Maximum Fun.

And again, please check out his new science game show, which is live and I believe streams live to the internet as well. The name of it is Our Findings Show, which is a perfect play on words with it being a show. Our Findings Show, sciy and comedy and everything. And if I remember right, I said at the start of the show too, Katie is fine, she's just out this week and back again soon.

So thanks to Tom for helping me make an episode happen. You are now in the outro of that show. It's got fun features for you, such as help remembering this episode with a run back through the big takeaways. ["The Big Takeaways Theme"] Mega takeaway number one, this episode with a run back through the big takeaways. Mega takeaway number one, the holiday Americans call Bastille Day actually celebrates the anniversary of the anniversary of storming the Bastille.

It actually celebrates the party one year later for French unity. Within that mini takeaway number two, the French monarchy celebrated the first Bastille Day. Louis XVI joined the 1790 party, he wasn't killed until 1793. Takeaway number three, the Bastille started out as a fortified gate project before getting way out of hand and killing both of its lead builders. Takeaway number four, everyone's passion for destroying the Bastille led to a bizarre series of Bastille souvenirs and Bastille monuments.

And then a lot of numbers at the top this week, especially about when Bastille Day is, the doubled-up set of fireworks for the day day and a jetpack man that I will link. Those are the takeaways. Also I said that's the main episode because there is more secretly incredibly fascinating stuff available to you right now if you support this show at MaximumFun.org. Members are the reason this podcast exists as well as Let's learn everything and a bunch of other great max fun stuff So members get a bonus show every week where we explore one obviously incredibly fascinating story related to the main episode This week's bonus topic is how British people invented illuminati

Conspiracy theories due to the storming of the Bastille theories due to the storming of the Bastille. Visit sifpod.fun for that bonus show, for a library of almost 21 dozen other secretly incredibly fascinating bonus shows, and a catalog of all sorts of MaxFun bonus shows. It's special audio, it's just for members. Thank you to everybody who backs this podcast operation. Additional fun things, check out our research sources on this episode's page at MaximumFun.org. Key sources this week include an amazing book about not just the Bastille. It's called Fall in Glory, The Lives and Deaths of History's Greatest Buildings. That is written by James Crawford, who's a scholar on the staff of Scotland's National Collection. We also heavily cite

J. Stor Dailey this week, pieces by writers Matthew Wills, Alison Miller, Alexandra Frank, and Livia Gershon, and lots of further digital resources from TheConversation.com, The New York Times, The Smithsonian, and other trusted sources. That page also features resources such as native-land.ca. I'm using those to acknowledge that I recorded this in Lenapehoking, the traditional land of the Munsee Lenape people and the Wapinger people, as well as the Mohican people, Skatigok people, and others. Also, Tom taped this in Lenapehoking on the traditional land of the Lenape people and Canarsie people. And I want to acknowledge that in our locations

and many other locations in the Americas and elsewhere, native people are very much still here. That feels worth doing on each episode and join the free CIF discord where we're sharing stories and resources about native people and life. There is a link in this episode's description to join the discord. We're also talking about this episode on the discord and hey, would you like a tip on another episode? Cause each week I'm finding is something randomly incredibly fascinating by running all the past episode numbers through a random number generator. This week's pick is episode two 28. That's about the topic of computer mice. Fun fact there,

the two dominant ideas for a computer mouse were a thing you operate with your hand and a thing you operate with one knee. So, I recommend that episode. I also recommend Tom's podcast Let's Learn Everything with our buddies Ella and Caroline. Also Katie's podcast Creature Feature about animals, science, and more. Our theme music is Unbroken, Un-Shaven by the Boodos Band. Our show logo is by artist Burton Durand. Special thanks to Chris Souza for audio mastering on this episode.

Special thanks to The Beacon Music Factory for taping support. Extra extra special thanks go to our members and thank you to all our listeners. I am thrilled to say we will be back next week So how about that? Talk to you then. Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artist-owned shows supported directly by you.