Secretly Incredibly Fascinating - Drive-Thrus

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

Alex Schmidt is joined by writer/musician Sadie Dupuis (new poetry collection 'Cry Perfume', bands Speedy Ortiz and Sad13) and comedian/podcaster Caitlin Durante ('The Bechdel Cast' podcast) for a look at why drive-thrus are secretly incredibly fascinating. Visit http://sifpod.fun/ for research sources, handy links, and this week's bonus episode

Drive-thrus. Known for being lanes. Famous for... Bad speaker voice. Nobody thinks much about them, so let's have some fun. Let's find out why drive-thrus are secretly incredibly fascinating. Hey there, folks. Welcome to a whole new podcast episode. A podcast all about why being alive is more interesting than people think it is. My name is Alex Schmitz, and I'm not alone. Sadie Dupuis and Caitlin Durante are my guests today. Sadie is a writer. She has a new book of

poetry available for pre-order right now. It's called Cry Perfume. It's out in October. I'll have links for that and for her book tour that's supporting that. She's also a musician. You might know her as front person of the band Speedy Ortiz, or as front person of her band called Sad 13. All kinds of other music from there, too. And I've also enjoyed Sadie's appearances as a funny podcast guest on a few different shows, including The Bechdelcast. And my other guest today is the great Caitlin Durante, co-host of The Bechdelcast, a wonderful movie podcast on iHeartRadio. She's also a returning guest to this show, previously on episodes about tires and about harbors. And she's a comedian, a screenwriter, a teacher. More info on classes on screenwriting at her website, caitlindurante.com.

Also, I've gathered all of our zip codes and used internet resources like native-land.ca to acknowledge that I recorded this on the traditional land of the Canarsie and Lenape peoples. Acknowledge Sadie recorded this from Lenapehoking, the traditional land of the Leni-Lenape people. Acknowledge Caitlin recorded this on the traditional land of the Gabrielino-Ortongva and Keech and Chumash peoples. And acknowledge that in all of our locations, Native people are very much still here. That feels worth doing on each episode, and today's episode is about

drive-thrus. That's also a patron-chosen topic, many thanks to Michael Bucciarone for that great suggestion. Like, they're all around us, especially in the U.S. and Canada, but in other countries, too, in a way we'll talk about what is their deal. So please sit back or pull up to the next window where I will hand you the rest of the podcast. Either way, here's this episode of Secretly Incredibly Fascinating with Sadie Dupuis and Caitlin Durante. I'll be back after we wrap up. Talk to you then. Caitlin and Sadie, it is so good to have you on the show. And I always start by asking guests their relationship to the topic or opinion of it.

So either of you can start. But how do you feel about drive-thrus? Take it away, Sadie. Oh my gosh, me first. Drive-thrus are a source of much discussion in my relationship, my romantic partnership, because I haven't been to a lot of them. And my long-term boyfriend is from Cleveland, Ohio, a test market for a lot of kinds of fast food. And it's an endless source of fascination for him to find out that I haven't been to a fast food location. So, so a source of stress in some ways, because I'm shamed regularly for not having been to them. I'll bet you're not the only person in that situation of like

these drive-thrus being an ambient thing in your life in the United States. And then, so even if you haven't been to them, people are like, you haven't attended? Or, you know, they're like, what? I think if you're in Ohio and it's a big, it's a big thing to have been to the drive-thrus and I'm catching up, but I'm vegan. So I'm catching up, not too fast. Yeah.

Do you have a favorite, either franchise or drive-thru experience? Taco Bell is probably the winner. I can get some beans and rice, $2. It's a great tour food. I'm not vegetarian or vegan, but the rumor I've heard is that Taco Bell is the favorite of vegetarians and vegans out of all the fast foods. It's fairly vegan-friendly. And I went to a restaurant today in Allentown, Pennsylvania, that clearly had been a Taco Bell. And you know when they haven't updated the Taco Bell since like 1986 and the building still looks great for that reason?

This is one of those like not updated in close to 30 years. Taco Bells that they've turned into a restaurant called the Vegan Butcher. But it's not vegan. They serve beef and eggs and dairy. So that might be my new favorite drive through. I do like the irony, though, of a place called the vegan butcher that's funny that's comedy but but they have beef i think that's a that's an omnivorous butcher between between the architecture and the name it sounds like some kind of honeypot to catch vegans

like oh you think it'll be a taco bell or vegan food? Come on in. And then, no, it's not. You could find yourself in a real moral trap at the vegan butcher. That's amazing. Anyway, Caitlin, what are your thoughts about the good old drive-thru? Oh, my gosh. I love a drive-thru. I grew up going to them. I'm from, speaking of Pennsylvania, I am from rural Pennsylvania, and there's kind of not a lot to do besides, you know, go to the fast food restaurants and, you know, drive through them.

So I did that a lot as a youth, and I developed, I just developed those habits and have carried them into adulthood. I don't eat that much fast food now, but, oh boy, do I love a McDonald's drive through a Wendy's drive through Taco Bell. I honestly don't eat that much of, but here in LA where I live, uh, I will frequent a Del Taco drive-thru. Yeah. And yeah, so I used to go to a Dairy Queen drive-thru a lot as a teenager because I had some friends who worked at the Dairy Queen. I'm no stranger to drive-thrus is what I'm saying. I did just learn that the Del Taco hot sauce is called Del Scorcho. Presumably a Weezer pun or maybe

the other way around. I don't know. Oh, not sure. So now that's going to be my next one. It's like McDonald's has all those different celebrity meals and then Del Taco just did Weezer and stuff. Weezer sauce. We're good.

Caitlin, I have a somewhat similar experience because i i grew up outside chicago but like the probably the closest business to my childhood home was a mcdonald's with a drive through that and a walmart but like it was it was a very big like we're headed home from a thing as children what what if we swing through mom or dad uh Like a lot of lobbying from the backseat. I used to, so I played soccer as a kid. We do. Should we play sometime? Let's kick it around. I played soccer for one year, but so badly that I almost thought to not say anything just now. Oh, wow.

Now it's out there well i continued on to adulthood um but need to retire i think because i've gotten bad at soccer anyway um my mom would like pick me up from soccer practice and i'd be like i'm so hungry i just exercised so much i need food. So she would take me to the McDonald's and I would eat two Big Macs as a, as a, like a, I don't know, a 50 or 60 pound kid. I was like a small child, just like housing two Big Macs. And that was something I did several times a week. And I think it's gonna. So maybe that's why you're not

good at soccer anymore. No, I was gonna say Reduce Big Mac intake. Okay, yeah. The Big Macs are like a power up in a video game. It wears off after a while. You were juiced up and now. Your HP is totally depleted. Maybe you'd be fine

in the ski wave if only you hit a drive-thru right now. Were you'd be fine in the sea wave if only you hit a drive-thru right now. Were you near, where in rural Pennsylvania? Were you near Mahoning drive-in by any chance? That does not sound very familiar to me. I grew up in a town called Brookville, which is not too far from Punxsutawney, home of Groundhog Day. Famous.

So. They've got a Harry Potter themedter themed coffee shop very strange and they have a great drive-in movie theater i went to it on tuesday and when i saw drive-through was the topic i was like yes i know all about this uh thinking for one moment that that meant drive through movie theater um oh ass that's you drive into it you don't check out yeah this one there will be a frequent distinction between drive-in businesses and drive-through, because it turns out drive-in is older, it's even for food. And yeah, drive-through is relatively recent. It's kind of a new thing in our lives. Even though as a child, I just thought it was permanent.

I thought we'd had it ever since cars. Yeah, that's news to me, actually. On every episode, our first fascinating thing about the topic is a quick set of fascinating numbers and statistics. And this week, that's in a segment called... Do you remember the 21st of Stats Timber? Love was counting a set of numbers while Stats counting the night away. Bravo. Bravo.

Entertainment show. That name was submitted by Eric Arbol. Thank you, Eric. We have a new name for this segment. Every week, please make a massillion-wacking bet as possible. Submit to SipPod on Twitter or to SipPod at gmail.com. Because, yeah, all these numbers, the first one are weird or surprising drive-thru services. And the first number is 2009. And 2009

is the year when Pennsylvania state legislator Kevin Murphy opened a drive-thru window for constituents. He started like serving people in his state house district. And he was based in Scranton, if people want the specific part of Pennsylvania. That makes sense. So rather than calling your representative, people would drive up and... Like the bank. Okay. Yeah.

Fill out your complaint suggestion, lawsuit, put it through the window. Complaint, suggestion, lawsuit. Put it through the window. Basically, I really wanted a picture of this because I have to assume they opened the office in like an old drive-thru bank or old, I guess, old fast food. It could be an old Taco Bell or something. But yeah, he was in the Pennsylvania State House for two terms. And the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette covered him opening an office where there was a drive-thru window where people could handle paperwork or give feedback and comments just from their car. Huh. Okay. Honestly, I think more things like that should be converted into drive-thrus.

You're telling me I have to get out of my car and go into a radioack? I don't know why Radio Shack was the first thing I said, but... First of all, bring back Radio Shack. Second of all, make a drive-thru. Yeah, make a drive-thru. See, I like that quite a lot because when I do go to a drive-thru, I'm constantly going. I don't want to wait in the line with the cars. There's like 10 cars. I'm like, I'm going to walk in and I'll be the first in line suddenly.

So I feel that if the political process incorporated more drive-thrus, people don't want to get out of their cars. So my complaint's going to be first in line due to parking parking and walking in well i guess drive-thrus are kind of the need for them are kind of contingent on what area you live in right because if you're in somewhere like new york city ever heard of it you probably most things are not going to be drive-thrus because most people don't who like live right in the city don't have a car but la where almost everyone has a car this is my excuse for not having been to so many drive-thrus because i first grew up in new york and then my mom moved to such a rural part of the country that the closest drive-thru would be like 40 minutes from her house so if you go to either extreme.

Right. Yeah. You're not driving through anything. Well, and this legislator one, apparently the big benefit of it was that Pennsylvania's state house representative, Kevin Murphy, would personally staff it on Thursdays and Fridays. So you weren't even necessarily dealing with his staff or whatever. You could see him just drive up and deal with them.

Wow. And he said, along with being in front of people, the other goal was to make his office more accessible to senior citizens and disabled people and also busy parents who couldn't leave their children unattended. They could just be in the back seat while they did their state legislature business. This is the most idealistic drive-in, drive-through I've ever heard of. Right.

And I don't know Kevin Murphy or his politics, but I like the idea of like making things more accessible. Yeah. Democrat, by the way. All right. This reminds me of, there's a town called and this is not the most relevant thing i've ever said but there's a town in california called idewild and the mayor of the town is a dog named max and what and you can go up and you can drive up and

meet him it's not a drive-through but basically he just like hangs out at a certain spot um pretty regularly and then you can just show up and meet the dog and it it you know he's mayor of the people and in and max is there to listen to your thoughts about the community your complaints your suggestions what i'm saying is i like it when politicians make themselves available. So be like Kevin, be like Max. And then sometimes Max is like, I want to go for a ride in the car. Where are you going to take him? Starbucks for a pub cup? You're not going to leave a dog in the car? And some Starbucks have drive-thrus.

Yeah, drive that mare right through. Wow. have drive-thrus so yeah drive that mayor right through yeah wow apparently in the u.s and canada like there were there are some sites that have tried to measure drive-thru popularity through google searches and far and away the number one google about a drive-thru is starbucks drive-thru because that chain it you you so don't know whether it'll be a drive-thru or not and so people are constantly searching that for every location. I think the worst Starbucks encounter is when, I do go to a fair amount of Starbucks on tour, unfortunately,

despite wishing I was only going to the unionized Starbucks. They're so often in like a Target or a Safeway or some 40-aisle grocery store, and you're not going to know until you show up, and suddenly you're in a mall parking lot with like five layers of parking lot before the Starbucks. Now you're five hours late for everything else. So I think they should only be drive-through just to avoid having to go into a Safeway.

And when you become a politician who is accessible to the people, that will be the platform that you run on. Yeah, or an intern to the dog mayor. This building is going to have three drive-thru windows. There's going to be me, there's going to be a dog, there's going to be a Starbucks. That's the future, is my campaign. This is good. These are good ideas. Love it.

Election day is coming up. Yeah. And the next number here is a whole different type. The next number is 1968. That is the year when an Atlanta mortuary owner named Herschel Thornton opened a drive-thru lane for funeral services. 1968. Okay, what? Yeah. What does that even mean?

I'm thinking. I'm thinking. And funerals were only set up this way if the family specifically requested it. He did regular ones, too. But you could, without getting out of your car, pay respects by just gliding past the deceased. I think I like this. It feels like everyone gets a celebrity funeral at this particular mortuary. Right. Where it's like lying in state. Yeah, wow. I hadn't thought of that.

And I mean, not to get dark, but I certainly was at some Zoom funerals in the past few years. If we brought back the drive-in mortuary, could have been a COVID-safe funeral. Good Lord. That was one of my thoughts, too. My pandemic-addled brain. That's a whole thing. And there's also, I think, a really positive reason he did this in the 60s.

This was covered by Jet Magazine at the time, Thornton S. Black. And he said that the goal was to help busy families and lower-income people find time to pay their respects. He said, quote, help is so hard to get now. Folks like to come by at night. You'd be surprised by the number of persons ringing the bell at midnight or 1 a.m. to view the body, end quote. Because it's hard to find a sitter if you have kids, and so people could wait for them to go to sleep and then come see the deceased. So all drive-thrus are altruistic is what we're learning from these.

That is a common thread. Yeah. When you get a bust out an evil drive-thrus are altruistic is what we're learning from these that is a common thread yeah when you get a bust out an evil drive-thru yeah sinister yeah um yeah i mean i mean i guess drive-thrus are exclusionary toward people who who can't drive or can't afford to have access to a car. But for those who have a car and can operate it, yeah, it seems like drive-thrus make things a lot more... You can bike through the drive-thru, right? That's true, yeah. Can you? I don't actually know.

I don't see any reason why not. I think places vary. I actually, it was like a year and a half ago, we were walking and we used to live in Durham, North Carolina, and there was sort of a random drive-thru McDonald's in an otherwise very foot traffic heavy area. And we tried to walk through the drive-thru to get food and they wouldn't let us. We had to go inside. McDonald's does not let you.

I do know that. Yeah. Have we all tried this? I hope so. That's great. Okay. Just all three of us in Durham in line. Like, well, it didn't work for Alex, but...

Let's give me a try. Uh-huh. Okay. Well, yeah, so the the common thread the common theme is a lot of drive-thrus seem to at least the ones that are like uh for politicians or funeral homes are doing this to make things um more accessible accessible for people who need things to be accessible i know an evil one's coming right then the next one's actually related to covet the next number is 40 million and there's there's also an international thing that's the reported increase in visits to drive-through

restaurants in the united kingdom during the first 12 months of the pandemic. It's not super common to see drive-thrus in the UK. Apparently there's only about 2,000 businesses in the UK that have a drive-thru. But from April 2020 to April 2021, they saw 40 million more visits than the previous year. Wow. Where are they going? Marks and Spencer? What's the hot drive-thru in the UK?

It's weird. The Guardian article about this, the sub-headline called it U.S. style drive-thru restaurants. They were fully like, this is an American thing. But then the picture was a... Oh, we have something. U.S. And then the picture was a Tim Hortons in the UK. So it was a Canadian place. It had a big maple leaf on it.

That country is also sort of like the US with this. Okay. But the UK, not that into it. And then it became a really handy COVID access to food thing to use the drive-thrus that they had. Good for them. You know. Yeah. Yeah.

And apparently the first drive-thru in the UK opened in the 1980s in Manchester, so pretty recent. And it just was not that popular, but is now more popular. Oh, wow. Okay. Speaking of European approaches to this, the next number here, 1996. It's been a lot of years. But 1996, that is the year when a Swedish ski resort opened a McDonald's with a ski through. Wow. So you don't have to drive a car through it.

Stop it. That's cool. What? That's like the swim up bar for Sweden. Yeah. Like in a fancy pool resort place. Yeah. So you can ski through this so you're just like on you're skiing you're skiing and

you're like i'm hungry oh good thing there's a mcdonald's here on the like slopes i guess and then and what you probably get like ski mittens on how are you gonna get those fries out of their little bag good question and i'll have pictures linked for people and the basics. It's sort of like a walk-up window, but you're supposed to just go on skis. And in the pictures, there's just plenty of snow coverage right in front of it. Okay. This is Lindvalen ski resort in Sweden, which has a small wood panel of McDonald's. And also the sign says McSki instead of McDonald's. I do love that. I, okay, I was picturing, I don't know what I was picturing, but it was not this.

It was, I was like, this makes more sense is what I'm saying. I like, it's, this is very, this looks very rustic. I'm a big fan of McSki. Yeah, it's just positive to me. Especially, I don't know, a Big Mac for athletic performance. You can get one there, you know? Yeah. Great. They need that Big Mac to get to the bottom of the mountain.

Exactly. What a wonderful time. Also, so I'm not vegan, and I pretend to be a vegetarian, but I consistently have what I call meat cheat days, where I cheat on being a vegetarian by eating meat. So kind of like the vegan butcher. Exactly like that. Yes.

Anyway. Oh, now. Yeah. Now I'm just hungry for Big Macs. Yeah. I wanted to start this one with some non-food ones, which we did, because it may be a hunger-inducing episode over time. But we'll start easy with legislators and funerals and stuff. Thank you.

The next number here, it's sort of about power rankings of drive-thrus. The next number is 216.75 seconds. Is this like speed run for fast food preparation? It's not that fast, I guess. Yeah, this is 216.75 seconds, a little over three and a half minutes. That is the fastest average speed

of a major chain's drive-through system. Like the fastest customer experience on average through it. There's a trade magazine called QSR Magazine. It's for quick service restaurants, QSR. But they do a bunch of annual surveys, and they said that in 2019, the fastest major drive-thru chain was Dunkin' Donuts.

Oh, you mean Dunkin'. You mean Dunk's. Not just Dunkin'. I mean, I call it Dunkies, but it's Donuts No More. I was just complaining about this about two hours ago. Just outside of Allentown. That they dropped the name? Yeah.

Who's going to call it Dunkin'? But what do you dunk? Donuts? You're just Dunkin' through life? I don't know. Trying to put a whole huge egg sandwich into the cup like i i'm confused i don't get it yeah they have to be specific here they pivoted and they missed yeah i think duncan's gonna stick to that uh even though whenever i hear it i think it is the first

name duncan i i always think of that even though that's not a super common name. But yeah, apparently, at least as of 2019, they were the fastest average drive-through start to finish. Next fastest was Wendy's at about 230 seconds. And then Burger King, Taco Bell, Carl's Jr. was the top five. But that was pre-Duncan rebrand, at which point now they're focusing more on sandwiches, right? So I feel like the speed is due to, I would like one glazed donut. There's no prep. There's no prep required in the moment.

Or like, yeah, or their normal coffee. It's almost like an ATM. It's just like one button, one lever. Here you go. Yeah. I'd be curious what that magazine whose initialism I can't remember the name of anymore ranks in 2022. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Dunks, you're going to fall to the bottom. I don't know. I like Dunks. Duncan. Duncan. Donuts. Donuts. Donuts.

Donuts. Donuts. Donuts. Donuts. Donuts. Donuts. Donuts. Donuts.

Donuts. Donuts. Donuts. Donuts. If you're asking me. Yeah. Yeah, we can't say this kind of stuff and visit the Northeast. You know what I mean?

We got to play it safe. True. I lived in Boston for a long time. I feel like I can criticize donkeys to my heart's content. Same. Yeah. It's our right. Yeah.

And also the other survey thing they have here is just broad satisfaction with the drive-through process, regardless of speed, although that's one part. And in 2020, they found that by every metric people surveyed on, the industry leader in drive-thrus is Chick-fil-A. People love the Chick-fil-A drive-thru system for its efficiency and speed. Okay. See, I don't go to Chick-fil-A on account of their... Those are not the things I'd be thinking about with regard to Chick-fil-A.

Right. I hear Chick-fil-A. Right. I hear Chick-fil-A, I'm like, oh, homophobia. That's kind of the thing. Fastest homophobic drive-thru in this whole country. Yeah. So in LA and elsewhere in California and probably elsewhere, again, I live a very la

centric life embarrassingly but uh in and out burger is uh probably the busiest uh like drive through to the point where like streets will kind of have to just be blocked off because most of the street is just occupied by people waiting in line to turn into the in and out drive-in yes so and it doesn't stop me or apparently anybody else from because they're like you'll wait for like a half hour sometimes just to like get to the window to pick up your food um because the lines are so long. But people just love In-N-Out. And I'm glad we brought them up, the last numbers about them, and then the next takeaway, too.

The last number is $230 US. $230 US. That is the price of a framed canvas print of a painting of the first In-N-Out location, if you buy it from the company store. By whom? This really shocked me. It's an artist named Jack Schmidt.

My last name's Schmidt. So your father? You've got to track him down. Jack Schmidt sounds like a pseudonym. Right. Like Joe Schmoe, Jack Schmidt. Oh, yeah, famous In-N-Out artist Jack Schmidt. Okay. Right, right Joe Schmoe, Jack Schmidt. Oh, yeah. Famous in and out artist Jack Schmidt. Okay.

Right, right. Oh, look, you've sent a file. Oh. Yeah. This is a... Oh. $200 and how many dollars? It's $230. It's, I think, pretty nice.

But you can buy a reproduction of it. There's an original oil painting, and then you get a reproduction on canvas if you want one. But he painted it. It was built in 1948 in Baldwin Park, California, which is in the San Gabriel Valley east of downtown LA. And according to welikela.com, that original

restaurant got fully taken apart and relocated at one point to accommodate the construction of Interstate 10, which it goes all the way to Santa Monica there. And then it got demolished in 2011 and the company has built like a museum style replica, uh, in the,

in the former area. So it's no longer there, but there's a reproduction built by the company that you can go see. How about, uh, how about a Jack Schmidt painting of the McSki? I would love it. That's what I'd like on my wall.

I'd spend $230 on that, yeah. Yeah, $240 even. Let's go. But yeah, I guess they do a new T-shirt every year with new fine art to celebrate the beauty of their locations or whatever. But that first one there i'll have pictures linked where the very first restaurant in 1948 very prominently has a drive-thru lane and that brings us to takeaway number one for the show in and out burger and jack in the Box pretty much invented the drive-thru.

Okay. Those two chains are the ones that really more or less invented it and really popularized it across the country. Jack in the Box. Is it Jack in the Box, Texas? I had it for the first time in California and it started in California. Oh. Well, never mind. Drive-thru myself back to school. I would have thought McDonald's invented the drive-thru, but no, it was In-N-Out and Jack in the Box. I feel like I've seen the first McDonald's and it's more like drive-up burger shack type thing, right?

Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, the very first ones were like a drive-in, walk up and get a burger thing. But the In-N-Out Burger, like the name of the restaurant and the design of it, the entire sort of brand pitch whole thing is a drive-thru lane. Like that's the whole idea. So really it's more out and stay out. Yeah. Right.

Keep out of my shack where I make the burgers. Yeah. Just drive up. I'll throw the food at you. And then get out. You want to go where? Inside my restaurant? No, no.

Just, I love the idea of a shy food businessman. Like, don't come. I'm not making anything. Hygienic? True. Yeah. businessman like don't don't come and not make anything hygienic true yeah but and yeah the key sources here there's a bunch of like smithsonian digital uploads of in and out stuff and jack in the box stuff and then also two books one is drive through dreams a journey through the heart of america's fast food kingdom by journalist adam chandler And then a book all about In-N-Out, it's called In-N-Out Burger, a behind the counter look at the fast food chain that breaks all the

rules by writer Stacey Perman. And they both talk about how In-N-Out was basically the first drive-thru. The restaurant opened October 22nd, 1948. And it was a married couple named Harry and Esther Snyder, who were the founders and the owners, but they had a burger shack on an extremely small plot of land. And then also Harry Snyder was an electronics enthusiast. He just liked building electronic stuff. And so he designed and built from scratch a two-way speaker system. He could use a drive-thru radio shack. Yeah.

That's what I'm saying. Oh, he'd love it. Wow. Sorry, I interrupted you for that amazing joke please continue but yeah he was a fan of electronics and basically at his own home with his own tools invented the modern like two-way speaker intercom for ordering a drive-through cool and so so when they opened their little burger shack, they also put together a lane that you could pull your car through that started with a big sign pointing to a box labeled two-way speaker. That was a little speaker that went straight through to the kitchen to talk to them back

and forth to order. And then you pick up the food at a window attached to the shack. And then the name and the lack of space, it'll encourage customers to go out to leave to eat somewhere else. In and out. Yeah. When I like came to California and used to live there, I was used to most in and outs being big and having whole dining rooms. But most of the first ones did not. And the like, whole concept and theme and experience was supposed to be this novel thing where you just receive your food from a window and leave.

It feels very like anonymous. You're like, I don't want anyone to know that I've been to an In-N-Out. For example, if you pretend to be a vegetarian, but you're having a meat cheat day and you don't want anyone to know about it you go to a drive-thru I love receiving my food through a window and leaving the one thing that I wish would stick around

the ordering from the coffee shop on my phone and I just go to a little window and grab it and run away I feel like that's been slowly phased out over the past year and very few places in Philly are doing it anymore, but I loved the no interaction ordering. Right. Like dropping files amongst spies. Like you put it in a knot hole of a tree and just get it. Yeah.

I feel like some things that we did during the pandemic should just become staples of everyday life like that. I could take my dog to go get the coffee. That was great. Now they want me to go up to a hole, go inside. What are you crazy? No, no thanks. This isn't how Mr. In-N-Out would have done it. And especially if your dog is Mayor Max.

Yeah. You're going to make the mayor go inside the coffee shop? No. He's got dog bills to pass. He's got bigger fish to fry. You just tie him up outside and then it's a political gaffe. It's like too cool to go inside. Like too big to go inside. Too big.

The mayor. But yeah, and then this In-N-Out, it was really kind of the first drive-thru based system that became huge. Also, part of the reason the first one succeeded as a business is the location. Because California had a huge car culture. And then also Baldwin Park, California, it put them on the midway point for lots of drivers, like anybody coming into L.A. from the east, and in particular produce growers,

like people who were bringing produce in from farms out east to the markets in downtown L.A. Either going there or going back, they would stop for a quick burger. But they didn't need a dining room or anything they were just on the move but it was like the 40s were early enough that not everybody was constantly doing big driving commutes all the time that was a little bit new right huh well um sounds like mr in andOut was a genius as far as picking the best location

and he invented that intercom system. That feels like something that you... I feel like that's in the White House. Why don't we know this guy's name? We're still calling him Mr. In-N-Out despite you having said his name. Right, right. Harry In-N-Out?

Dang. No, Harry Snyder. Every time the nukes don't get fired, I feel like that's Mr. In-N-Out's doing. Yeah, I might have overstayed, like, intercoms existed, but this practice of, like, it's in a box on a pole going into the kitchen. I see. That was, like, his invention invention and then he hand built his credit he created the white house i think he actually invented radio and radio waves yeah that's right yeah good for him good for mr in and out amplifiers phones that was all that was all in and out. It's doing microphones. Yeah.

Incredible. All right. Off of that, we're going to a short break, followed by the big takeaways. See you in a sec. I'm Jesse Thorne. I just don't want to leave a mess. This week on Bullseye, Dan Aykroyd talks to me about the Blues Brothers, Ghostbusters, and his very detailed plans about how he'll spend his afterlife. I think I'm going to roam in a few places, yes. I'm going to manifest and roam. All that and more on the next Bullseye from MaximumFun.org and NPR.

Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. But yeah, and then the other restaurant here is Jack in the Box. They didn't do it first, but a couple years later, 1951 entrepreneur, Robert O. Peterson opened the first Jack in the box in San Diego, California. Do you mean Mr. Jack in the box? That's what you meant to say. Please call me Jack.

Mr. In the box was my father. I'm sorry. I stepped on your fact. He opened the first one in where we just got named jokes. Sorry. It's San Diego, California. It's going to be a very California heavy history for this whole thing. Yeah.

That makes sense. I've never been. Jack in the Box is one I don't think I have hit. What's the deal? Okay. You know, I feel like they've got like a decent, they've got a breakfast sandwich on a croissant, which I feel like more places should do. That's like Tim Horton's territory.

What country are you in, Jack in the Box? When I went for the first time, I was stunned that they had tacos. I was like, you do burgers and tacos? That's not possible in the world of food. But it is. They do it. It is. They did it. He actually invented...

The vegan butcher. It keeps coming back to the vegan butcher yeah and they uh along with that taco thing their their big hook was just a drive-through no dining room at all and then the restaurants called jack-in-the-box and and partly succeeded because they like turned the drive-thru into a character. So the, if you go to Jack in the Box now, it's like kind of a standard intercom and big board of foods and stuff. But the originals had a speaker box that was decorated and designed to look like a Jack in the Box toy. Like there was a head springing out of the top of it.

Oh no. Right? This seems scary. It's a little bit, if you're like a fear of clowns person maybe don't look at the pictures. Uh oh. And I'm going to have them linked for people but Smithsonian has one of the early ones and to

the left side of the picture there's it's a very tall like ah here I am. It's not at all the blank. It says Jack will speak to you ominous no this is cute he's jack's fine so the way that a jack-in-the-box you don't really know when it's gonna pop up and it startles you yeah would the character just sort of like run up and boo can i take your order because i would be staying on brand and i think that's what they should do or do you have to take the order like hi this is jack i'm that's my clown

voice sorry clearly i wasn't trained to work at a jack-in-the-box but is that is that the deal like how do you know jack is speaking to you so this was early enough in the drive-through system and situation that in the early 1950s apparently some people would start to go through the lane at at in and out or elsewhere and then like a voice comes out of the box and it's shocking you know and so jack in the box eased people in with like the name of the restaurant is jack in the box you're looking for the jack in the box there's a big sign that says Jack will speak to you. And then this character is this Jack in the Box toy that you're talking to. So I don't think people pretended to be a clown or anything,

but the whole brand of the restaurant was you receive burgers by talking to a toy, and then you go down the drive-thru lane. Pretty cool. Maybe if they'd been doing a clown voice, I would have been to one before. Missed opportunity. Yeah. Yeah, the commercials now, it's like the same head as this old jack-in-the-box that you see in the pictures. But the guy in the commercials has a very normal, flat male voice that is not wacky or fun.

Yeah. Right. The look of him, though, is it's a bit freaky because he just has like a big sphere for a head and then like a cone hat. It's almost like a nondescript. It's like barely. I don't know. I'm saying there could have been more creativity going into it for a 2022 rebrand exactly get bill skarsgård to do the voice and his it makeup and yeah yeah how come there's no teeth give it many rows of teeth

yeah yeah and that and that's the evil drive-thru that we alluded to earlier waiting waiting and now and then we just invented it so we got there yeah we're just shark tanking over here it chapter three yeah sure perfect yeah no notes yeah and like and these two restaurants it was so novel at the time and then they got copied by other places and then they ended up kind of meeting other restaurants in the middle where now in and out and jack-in-the-box have dining rooms and at one point in and out started doing lap mats so you could like stay in the parking lot and eat in your car uh but yeah but this technique like lap mat yeah like a like a place mat you put in your lap that they give you yeah okay that's nice i feel like that

could still be useful i'm spilling stuff all over my lap all the time yeah um i feel like so these like early drive-through days i feel like where it was the same era as where you would go up to like a burger joint and then have like people on roller skates come out and like take your order. Is that like Sonic? They still do that possibly. Maybe, I don't know.

Um, but then they'd like kind of hook a tray to the side of your, you'd like rolled on your window and they'd like hook a tray to the side of your car. And then like you'd eat off of this tray right and they don't exist i feel like those don't really exist anymore bring them back that's my platform for when i run to be mayor max the dog the dog mayors like people on rollerblades I feel like the dog would be opting to outlaw. Yeah. That's too hard to chase.

That might be right. True. It's probably too much of a liability for the people on the roller skates. Yeah. Right. A lot of insurance, a lot of skills. But did rollerblades come back in the pandemic? So maybe there's a new market for hiring. so maybe there's a new market for hiring did i buy a pair of roller skates and did all of my friends also do that during the pandemic yes we did are they now sitting in my closet unused

we can't get workers a it's because you don't pay enough for healthcare but b it's because you're not trying to get rollerblading workers. Yeah. It's an untapped market. Yeah, like drive-in style stuff, Sonic is my main experience of that ever. And that's one of the main forerunners of this. There were drive-ins before there were drive-throughs. And apparently also, Stacey Perman talks about the Sonic restaurant chain being one of the first drive-ins to have an intercom, like an electronic way to order. But that first happened in Stillwater, Oklahoma in 1954. So that was some years after the 1948 In-N-Out and 1951 Jack in the Box.

They probably partly copied it from the spread of this other thing. And the only other big forerunner is drive-thru banking. There were a few drive-thru banks before the 1940s. The first one was in Dallas, Texas in the 1920s. Wow. Which is really early. That's pretty early, yeah. But that wasn't like common until after especially ATM technology was going.

And that was after the 1940s. So the first major, major drive-thrus were in and out and jack-in-the-box there weren't any like saloons where you go up with your horse and get a beer through the window like come on there's a pre-car precursor i think there's gotta be yeah if pioneer town put that in i'd be there in a flash horseback bar yeah it's like the old west version of your swim up bar at a pool and i don't know cancun or whatever i just want sports up bars basically yeah and we can do that when we're playing soccer. Dribble the soccer from the McDonald's in the middle of the field. Yeah, I think there's just like a lot of fun novelty in any way of doing this.

And so I think that was part of the hook of the first ones that are just what to me is so normal, a drive-thru fast food restaurant. Like when that was first a thing, I think people thought of it like a mix ski or a horse drive-thru or something. They were like, holy cow, can you believe it? I'm just still in my car and I'm getting food. We take so much for granted in this modern era. It's a shame. Can't believe there was ever a time when I wasn't still in my car. Landon, and there's one other main takeaway here, it's about mcdonald's going into takeaway number two mcdonald's was late to incorporate drive-thrus and they built their first one to accommodate a military base oh wait when what year was that why they yeah They, yeah, they did it. So again, In-N-Out did the first one in 1948.

And the first McDonald's drive-thru was 1975. Whoa. For, for like many, for multiple decades of like the founding and growth and hugeness of McDonald's, they did not have drive-thrus, even though that was where I went. What days? And it was in Arizona. It was in a town called Sierra Vista, Arizona. It was Fort Huachaca, which was a U.S. Army base. Okay. And they drove up on their tanks. Yeah, this is what I'm picturing. How many personal cars are driving around the military base? Like the Army made them do it by force. It was a normal mcdonald's and we're like

we're blowing out this wall it's a drive-thru now i'm surprised that mcdonald's was so late to incorporate drive-thrus because it's like i you know you picture mcdonald's and it's just like synonymous with a drive-thru in my mind, at least. Mine too. To me, it's a ball pit. Synonymous with the ball pit. Oh, yeah. So maybe they were blowing too much money on ball pits and didn't have enough to put in intercoms.

Something that did not survive the pandemic are like the play places at Fast Food. Are they all gone? I feel like a lot of them are closed because of the risk. I did go to a McDonald's the other night, bravely. And yeah, the play place was like just dark and abandoned and closed, locked up. That's sad. Bring those back. So now we have a haunted drive-thru and a haunted play place.

That's good. That's cool. I would like a drive-thru play place where it's like the car wash but you're just driving through like a ball pit and it's all surrounding your car. That sounds good to me. Or like you basically

drive onto a thing and then you are kind of like on a roller coaster now. But there's balls everywhere. Don't open your window. Again, more great ideas. Let's keep them coming. If anyone uses this, you owe all of us one-third each of the profit. Yeah. One-thirties of profit.

Yeah. Yeah, McDonald's, I just sort of assumed drive-thrus were part of them becoming huge, but they were already a huge corporation with locations all over the U.S. before they had drive-thrus. The main feature of McDonald's was that when they were competing with drive-in restaurants, like a Sonic-type thing, they had customers park their cars, walk up to a window to order, and then walk up again to pick up their own food. And because McDonald's didn't need to hire waiters, waitresses, car hops and stuff, then they could cut costs a whole bunch and undercut all their competition on the price of stuff. So that's the first, first success of McDonald's was to do

a totally unrelated, a drive-thrus thing. Interesting. Yeah. And then, yeah. And by, by the 1960s, like they had the golden arches, they had Ronald McDonald, they were a publicly traded corporation. Like they were huge, but 1975 was their first drive-thru, and it was kind of an accident. It was to cater to a very specific military base. Also, I'm realizing too much clown imagery relating to fast food restaurants. Between Jack in the Box and Mr. Jack and Ronald. Why so much clowns? Krusty Burger? Sorry. Oh. Wow. why are we why why so much clowns crusty burger sorry oh wow yeah steamed hams yeah um they uh when will there be an it restaurant again great question i think we're really going

to convince like a universal park to do a horror nights pop-up thing like they they still owe us money though yes yeah but this is this is the really weird way one arizona mcdonald's opened a drive-thru they this wasn't like built on purpose at a new location this existing mcdonald's like cut out and rebuilt part of their exterior wall and then put in a window to rig up a drive-thru. And it's because U.S. Army Base Fort Huachaca, they had a rule for all the soldiers that they were not allowed to appear in public in their military uniforms. They had to be fully off-duty and not in their uniforms.

But they were considered out of eyesight if they were still inside a vehicle. And so to like work around a military base rule, McDonald's was like, why don't we do that thing a bunch of other restaurants do and put in a drive-thru? And they rigged one up. Was that a universal rule at that time? Mash.com says the specific base, it was partly a rule because the base and the McDonald's were right near a thriving red light district. And so the base didn't want their soldiers seen there looking like soldiers.

I see. And so that was at least part of this base having this rule in the 70s. Oh, okay. So it was like all secrets. They could have circumvented this if the whole McDonald's was filled with balls up to one's neck. And you'd have no idea what kind of uniform one was or wasn't wearing. Exactly. Seems cheaper than putting in a whole new window and wall.

Yeah, how much does a ball cost? One cent? Yeah. Right. Huh. Okay. So they could stay in uniform, order McDonald's, stay in their car, order McDonald's, and then they would go to the red light district, I guess, in plain clothes so as to not reveal

themselves as military personnel. Or just stay in their cars the whole time. Or, hmm. Oh, probably. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense, too. What, I'm not going to change for McDonald's and then get in my car.

Right. Okay. All right. So this is, wow. This is interesting. Yeah. And this is, well, this is interesting and this is fascinating. Hey. So we need red light district drive-thrus also.

Maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's a lot like, it's a lot of trying to get convenience and propriety and secrecy all at once led to this one McDonald's being like, we could just, we could do a lot more business if the guys can just remain in uniform and drive through. And the Arizona Republic newspaper reported on this. They said that like locals have talked about when this opened and they said that when it opened, the McDonald's got so busy, it was like harder to get service now because there were so many troops coming through all the time using the drive. It was like an in and out. I think it had that in and out line. Like I that man, there were times in California where like I would see an in and out line and assume there was an accident up ahead.

And then it would turn out to be just people who wanted it out. When I first moved to L.A., I drove for Postmates and I constantly was getting orders for In-N-Out. And so I would have to wait in line forever. And then I'd like deliver the food and they're like, this took forever. I'm like, yeah, have you been doing In-N-Out? Anyway. This McDonald's, it was that kind of a hook for that first one and now they all have it but like a few months later there was an oklahoma city mcdonald's that did it a much more on purpose

way like they made an event out of it they put up decorative white column porticos like a like a greek or roman building for the drive-thru. There was a Ronald McDonald statue, like, beckoning you in. But the sales increased there 40% within two months. And today, a typical McDonald's, according to Adam Chandler, does about two-thirds of its business just at the drive-thru. I'm not surprised. But there was a whole era of McDonald's becoming a big national chain, and then they did a drive-thru, like, later.

They, like, got around to it. It's crazy, man. We do love convenience, don't we? And that's why if you want to be number one, you got to park and walk in. It feels like a hack. Yeah.

It's like, I beat this thing. Yeah. folks that is the main episode for this week my thanks to sadie dupuy and caitlin durante for grappling with a lot more clowns than i realized during this topic right should have figured it with ronald mcdonald but go. Anyway, I said that's the main episode because there is more secretly incredibly fascinating stuff available to you right now. If you support this show on Patreon.com, patrons get a bonus show every week where we explore one obviously incredibly fascinating story related to the main episode. This week's bonus topic is the surprising role of U.S. fast food restaurants as a third space,

which is a sociology thing. We'll talk all about it. Visit SIFpod.fun for that bonus show for a library of more than nine dozen other bonus shows and to back this entire podcast operation. And thank you for exploring drive-thrus with us. Here's a sack from a window with the big takeaways. Takeaway number one, In-N-Out Burger and Jack in the Box pretty much invented the drive-thru. Takeaway number two, McDonald's was late to incorporate drive-thrus, and they built their first one to accommodate a military base. Plus a slew of drive-thru stuff for skiers, funerals, European COVID safety, U.S. politics, and more.

Those are the takeaways. Also, please follow my guests. They're great. Sadie Dupuis is on tour soon to share her new book. It's a book of poetry. It's called Cry Perfume, available for pre-order now and comes out in October. Caitlin Durante's podcast, The Bechdel Cast, is out every week on iHeartRadio. She and co-host Jamie Loftus break down movies from that lens, the Bechdel test and more. Many research sources this week. Here are some key ones. In particular, two books. One is called Drive Through Dreams, A Journey Through the Heart of America's Fast Food Kingdom. That's by journalist Adam Chandler. The other is In-N-Out Burger, a behind-the-counter look at the fast

food chain that breaks all the rules, and that is by Businessweek writer Stacey Perman. Other big, big sources are The Smithsonian, History.com, and The Arizona Republic. Find those and many more sources in this episode's links at sifpod.fun. And beyond all that, our theme music is Unbroken Unshaven by The Budos Band. Our show logo is by artist Burton Durand. Special thanks to Chris Souza for audio mastering on this episode. Extra, extra special thanks go to our patrons. I hope you love this week's bonus show.

And thank you to all our listeners. I'm thrilled to say we will be back next week with more secretly incredibly fascinating. So how about that? Talk to you then.