Secretly Incredibly Fascinating - Manatees

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

Alex Schmidt is joined by comedian Billy Wayne Davis ('Grown Local' podcast) and podcaster Ellen Weatherford ('Just The Zoo Of Us' podcast) for a look at why manatees are secretly incredibly fascinating. Visit http://sifpod.fun/ for research sources, handy links, and this week's bonus episode.

Manatees. Known for being big. Famous for being cute. Nobody thinks much about them, so let's have some fun. Let's find out why manatees are secretly incredibly fascinating. Hey there, folks! Welcome to a whole new podcast episode, a podcast all about why being alive is more interesting than people think it is. My name is Alex Schmidt, and I'm not alone. This week I'm joined by Billy Wayne Davis and by Ellen Weatherford. Billy is one of my favorite guests. He was most recently here for an episode about rest areas. He's also a wonderful stand-up comedian. BWDtour.com. That's the website I recommend. BWDtour.com that has all his upcoming dates, such as several middle of July shows all over Texas. Texas, you're going to get some Billy Wayne Davis. Middle of July. Going to be great. Billy's also a wonderful podcaster,

hosting and making his own shows. He has one called Grown Local about cannabis and growing it and how that works. And he has a whole nother Patreon called Podcast Wayne Davis, which is what it sounds like. It's Billy Wayne Davis podcasting. What more could you want? Ellen Weatherford is a new guest and a wonderful one. She is co-host of the podcast Just the Zoo of Us. And Just the Zoo of Us is on the Maximum Fun Network.

She and her husband Christian make that show about animals, and they make it from Florida. So, hey, episode about manatees, an animal podcast from Florida. Pretty good fit, Alex. Thank you. Ellen's also just great in general. You're going to love her. Speaking of our residences, I've gathered all of our zip codes.

I've used internet resources like native-land.ca to acknowledge that I recorded this on the traditional land of the Canarsie and Lenape peoples. Acknowledge Billy recorded this on the traditional land of the Gabrielino-Wartongva and Keech and Chumash peoples. Acknowledge Ellen recorded this on the traditional land of the Timuqua-speaking Mokama people. And acknowledge that in all of our locations, native people are very much still here. That feels worth doing on each episode, and today's episode is about manatees. Great, manatees, can't beat them.

That's a patron-chosen topic. Many thanks to Ben Cooper for that idea. Also to Shane, and to Victor Cavisto, and a few other folks too for all cheerleading it in the polls at sifpod.fun. This was a very popular patron pick. Yet another wonderful animal for this show. As popular as manatees are, almost nobody knows the nitty gritty or inner workings or some really surprising weird things we're going to talk about today. So please sit back or keep on floating, manatee style. Either way, here's this episode of Secretly Incredibly Fascinating with Billy Wayne Davis and Ellen Weatherford.

I'll be back after we wrap up. Talk to you then. Billy, Ellen, it is so good to have you both on. And of course, I always start by asking guests their relationship to the topic or opinion of it. And either of you can start, but how do you feel about manatees? Oh, overwhelmingly positive. This is like so specifically in my niche of being like about florida wildlife that's like you could not have cued me up better well and billy how about you i mean they're like i grew up on a my grandpa had a cattle farm and i feel like they're they're like the the ocean version

because they're called sea cows and then when you're in florida if you go fishing you will see that yeah oh wow they're just out and about yeah so i like i think they're cool i did before doing research i thought they were kind of just restricted a little preserves and special spots but it seems like they are sort of all over the state so that's thrilling that you can just be going about your business and they come cowing by you know like like, hi. There's some interesting. So I don't know how deep your notes went into like their migratory habits, Alex. But there's some interesting reasons for why they're always like getting hit by boats and why they're in place.

Like the types of places that they like to be in that they definitely shouldn't be in. But they go there anyway. And now we just have to deal with it that's what i'm saying like they're like us a little bit where they're like you guys we shouldn't do this and i yeah i know right i also don't want to be here but they're in a much less destructive way than we are like when we go into places we're not supposed to be we make it worse but they go into plays that we're not supposed to be, we make it worse, but they go into places that they're not supposed to be. And then like, they're the ones that suffer for it. Uh, and they're just there to eat grass.

Like they're not there to, to bother anybody. But that's like desert. I don't feel like that's like desert people. Oh, did they go to places that they shouldn't be? And then they suffer for it. Do you know what I mean? In a hostile environment. That's how, that then they suffer for it. Do you know what I mean? In a hostile environment. That's how desert people are.

You go and they're like, you guys, we can't do a lot of stuff out here. And you're like, I know. But dolphins are a**holes. No one talks about that. They are. They're like us. They are really like, they go to places and then they mess it up and then they leave. They certainly mess up the other critters that live there. They are just...

The more you study or read about dolphins, you're like, oh. They're like Hollywood. We're like, good thing you guys are pretty because you're messing everything up. This is... I don't know who's doing dolphin PR, but they deserve an astronomical raise. They got a great publicist, yes. but they deserve an astronomical raise. They got a great publicist.

Because perception of dolphins is so incredibly high for their whole vibe. So I, and this is by far my biggest connection to animals, is that I used to be a zoo tour guide, and it was at Brookfield Zoo outside Chicago. That's where I grew up. And I basically worked as a PR person for the star dolphins, because there were dolphin shows at set times with tickets and everything. And so most of the rest of the zoo, you just go see it. And then the dolphin show, I was like, we got an 11 o'clock.

We got a 1 o'clock. I was out there being the, what's his name? Ari Gold. There we go. Very old reference. But I was him for dolphins for a long time you were their agent you were like a barker too like so it was you it's your fault it's my it's dolphins and otters that both are like so beloved for being absolutely adorable

but it just masks a complete bloodthirsty viciousness. Both of them. Yes. The Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga has a cool otter thing. And then if you smoke weed, you'll spend more time in certain parts of aquariums and zoos. This is engaging. And that's what I noticed about the otters. I was like, man, they're cute. And then you start watching them.

I don't know. They seem like kids. They're all kind of. It's not just to each other. They're so mean. Yeah. But they're even to each other. You watch them to each other and you're like, oh, you guys are like dudes.

This isn't good. Definite like gym bro energy from the otters. Yes. There's very much. It was like some teammates i had is what it reminded me of just like people i played sports with growing up like i don't know who you guys are and you're not cool um that's funny that was my instinct and you backed me up thank you no i feel you i feel you i'm 100 on board but manatees are the like wholesome masculinity side

of aquatic mammals manatees are the opposite they are so chill they're like you know what i think it's because they're herbivores and like the otters and the dolphins are the carnivores right so they kind of have a little bit more of that like aggressive energy and manatees are just there for vibes so like i think it's just they have that sort of slowness about like you said like they're called the sea cows for a reason. They are energetically identical to cows. But they seem smarter like a bison. I don't know if I would say that they're smarter, but they're certainly more dexterous.

Maybe that's what I'm going for. I'm just here for bison praise. I love it. Yeah. They're a little bit better at manipulating their environments. Because cows are dumb that's just the fact they're dumb i don't i mean i love them i grew up around them but there's always one though that's like this doesn't none of this makes sense and i'm like this guy knows what's up i think we should give cows more of a chance to flex their intellectual muscles i think they're not given a chance to flex their intellectual muscles.

I think they're not given a chance to express themselves. Like I think if we gave them the tools to really like show us what they've got. I think India's done that and it's still, they still just kind of walk around eating and pooping where they shouldn't. That's kind of what. Wouldn't you? If you had a life that allowed for it. That's what we do. That's what I'm saying. Maybe they've got it figured out better than we do that i am i am having the thought

with is my my limited experience with cattle in illinois and iowa you can smell the areas the cattle are from a ways away and i feel like manatees it's a big upgrade over the cow experience because they're just pooping into the water you don't know about it somewhere else that's true imperceptible you do not have to worry about a smell such gentlemen such gentle ladies you know like dealt with i think sea creatures have their own funk it's a different oh yeah that fishy smell yeah you know when you're close to the water and good and bad water like a farm kind of but depending on're close to the water, and good and bad water, like a farm, kind of. But depending on your relationship to that water, that smell may not be an offensive smell to you. If that's a smell that you grew up with, you smell it and you're like,

oh, it smells like the spring, it smells like spending summer with my friends. I think it depends on your association with that smell. You smell it and you're like, oh, that's a relaxing smell. I grow cannabis and making the dirt and stuff. It reminds me of like a garden stuff with my grandpa. Like it is like there's certain smells where like other people are like, that's gross. I'm like, I don't agree. Yeah.

Yeah. No, you're totally right. And speaking of wonderful guest podcast, plug for Grown Local. Grown Local by Billy Wayne Davis. Great show. Oh, yeah. I'm so bad at advertising. Thanks, manatees.

And it's fun. Yeah. And yeah, and then got a whole set of stuff here about manatees. Because on every episode, our first fascinating thing about the topic is a quick set of fascinating numbers and statistics. This week, that's in a segment called, Look at these stats. Aren't they neat? Wouldn't you think the research is complete?

Wouldn't you think this topic is secretly fascinating? That was supposed to be part of your world. It got weird at the end. Anyway, that was submitted. No, I heard it. Thank you. I heard it. Grew up on this.

I know that jam. I can feel the spray from that wave crashing behind you. Like, I can feel it on my face. I'm there. I'm in the moment. I was, too. I was right behind her in the moment being like, ah. I can smell that sea creature funk.

Yes. Is that a, that mermaid? She's got a pretty voice, but she smells weird. I never thought of that movie as smelly, but yes, that and the Lion King. It's probably. Is that Chanel and fish? What is that? What if they gave out those little scratch and sniff tickets that they used to do for kids' cartoons and stuff, but for Little Mermaid, that'd be nasty.

And that evocative name for the segment, that was submitted by Johnny Davis. Thank you very much, Johnny. We have a new name for this every week. Please make them as silly and wacky and bad as possible. Submit to SipPod on Twitter or to SipPod at gmail.com. And it's a big number section this week. The first number is three. Very simple.

Three. That is the number of manatee species in the world. And Smithsonian says they're easy to tell apart because they live in different regions. There's the West Indian manatee, the Amazonian manatee, and the West African manatee. And Florida manatees are part of the West Indian manatee bigger group all over the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico everything else yeah we uh it's one of those things where they named them the West Indian manatee thinking that the the Americas were India um so they do not live in India but dugongs their cousins the dugongs do live over there so yeah that's what i that's what i i

assumed i was like oh west indies is that because we thought that the world that we we didn't know about this so we were like we're in india right it was a geographical error so some people will like now call them the north american manatee instead of the west indian manatee like the name stuck but like some people are starting to call them north american manatees instead of the West Indian manatee. Like the name stuck. But like some people are starting to call them North American manatees more so now because they're like, all right, we goofed it. Let's actually fix this. Yeah, just fix the thing. Just call them something else.

Let's just do the science. If we're going to be all accurate, do the accurate part. That's a better name. It's like geography. People are like, hey, just fix it. Well, it's too late. We already wrote it down.

You're like, it's right. Fix it. No. Just do it different. Just do it different. Delete, delete, delete. Type, type, type. I like this.

I'll just do North American manatee the rest of the way. Yeah, they're in Florida. And those are in the freshwater and can also move into saltwater in this whole region of the world. Same with the West African manatee. Amazonian manatee is only in freshwater rivers there. There's also rumors of another manatee species in the Amazon River system that would be called the dwarf manatee. that would be called the dwarf manatee, but that's disputed. And apparently it's likely that somebody saw a baby Amazonian manatee and just thought it was like a tiny version and a new species.

But it's probably just a baby is the upshot. They're in an order of animals called Cyrenia. And Alan, as you mentioned, the dugong is their relative out in the Indian Ocean in the West Pacific. Cyrenia is a very interesting group. I don't know if you had like the taxonomy of Sirenia, like where manatees and dugongs fall in like the mammal family tree. So I don't want to like steal your thunder or anything, but it is fascinating. All I have is they're pretty related to elephants and to a small animal called the rock hyrax.

That's about it. Yes. So despite looking like other aquatic mammals like whales and dolphins and even like seals, they have that sort of kind of, you know, streamlined fishy sort of body shape. They're not even a little bit, not even close to related to them. Like so the manatee and the dugong are more closely related to the elephant than they are to anything else in the world, which is also surprising on the elephant's end of things because you'd think they might be related to rhinos or hippos

or something like that. No, they're related to manatees and this weird little fuzzy thing called the hyrax, which looks like a rodent but it's not so you look at this family tree of like what's in the the afrotheria group which are all these weird mammals that like evolved endemic to africa and you're like what happened here how did you all get like this like they evolved in such a weird way, but while whales and dolphins evolved from ungulates, so all creatures that had hooves, and then seals and stuff like that evolved from carnivores, so you'd see more dog-like features in their face. They all ended up looking very similar, even though they came from completely different origins, and I find that wild. So cool.

I'm dumb. So my question is, do you think they came from the ocean first and then begot elephants or the elephant begot the manatee? It's so funny because it's like every—so obviously, like, everything—I shouldn't say obviously. This is not obvious. I think people are still arguing about a lot of it everything came from the ocean right and we all came out of the ocean and then uh diversified from there as soon as like tiktolik crawled up out of the water and then they diversified into like reptiles, birds, amphibians, mammals. And then what's funny about that is that then certain groups turned around and looked back and were like, no, I think we had it right the first time. I do think we're going to go back.

And they turned around and went back in the water, but they did it independently of each other. So like the common ancestor between the elephants and the manatees and the dugongs and stuff they split off so some of them went back into the water and became the manatees and the dugongs some of them stayed on the land and became the elephants but then in the ungulate side of things some of them did the same thing where they were like hey yeah i think i also want to go back in the water so they turned around and went back we love laying next to the ocean that's that's our we love for whatever reason we do have this connection to it right like we do have like a desire to return and people are like well that's because they need water like not on the oceans we can't use that we can't use what's in the water though i mean that's like a bunch of fish and

you know it's a good and it gets us places but it's not like we need drinking water and all that it's like that's not how that works just home i do think there is an element to that to where we're just like ah i don't know why that we just belong here but i do think that there's weirdos that look up to the sky and they're like i don't know that and you're like see i love all that and i love the idea of a manatee just being the animal looking back at the water like there's so much grass down there still oh man i don't think we got it all actually yeah we left some i'm hungry and nobody's down there eating it like they're like oh man because up on the land they're like i got all these competitors everybody else is trying to eat the same grass as me right

it's a free-for-all down there also floating you know floating's chill that seems so much just like oh yeah like this seems easier you guys i don't know gravity it does especially when you're that hefty you know being uh able to float around in the water does it it does help you know it's a less energetically taxing that yes that that leads nicely into a next number here the next number is 1 300 pounds and 1 300 pounds is the average weight of an adult North American manatee. I believe it. The other types are a little smaller, not a lot smaller, but that's, that's an animal

that is about that weight. And also the U S government oceanic and atmospheric administration, the NOAA, they have a bunch of stuff about manatee anatomy, which is thrilling. It turns out. And one thing that I was really shocked by about them is that, you know, as you're saying, Ellen, they're not very related to seals and other pinnipeds and stuff. And a lot of people think a manatee is blubbery, like a walrus. But it turns out they just have a huge body, mainly to have a huge digestive system. They are eating up to eight hours a day.

They eat between 10 and 15% of their body weight per day. And so their bodies are mostly full of a huge stomach and huge intestines and all kinds of other machinery to eat. And they're not actually that insulated from temperature. And they don't really have to be because they swim in such warm water, right? They don't really need a thick layer of blubber. It's like, oh, that's just free real estate, more room for eating grass. Yeah.

Well, and I was going to ask why you don't see them on the West Coast, but you just answered that question. It's because they can't handle the water temperature and things like that. Yeah, that's probably part of it. Yeah. And it might be like how continents arranged themselves in evolution went. But yeah, they really, really want a very warm body of water. Apparently, the North American ones want the temperature to be 68 degrees or higher, which is like 20 Celsius, I think, here. So that's, you know, very warm.

They wouldn't be in my home body of water, Lake Michigan. That's not a thing for them that lake freezes doesn't it it feels like it's frozen when it's not like we would camp on it in the summer and you put a foot in and it's very cold yeah i don't think our manatees could last like a like an actual good freeze no no god no god no no yeah it gets like kind of cold here in like the dead of winter where like you may get an actual freeze where like everything will turn to ice overnight and it'll be like one time like for the whole like the whole the whole winter you might get like a couple freezes here and there but you know it's for the most part not bad enough that it would like affect the manatees or anything i mean we've got like massive reptiles

and stuff here so it doesn't get so cold that it kills off our like gators and snakes and stuff well they just become docile and don't move for a couple days because that's they're built in to do that and then they go warm up just take take it easy. Yeah, that is. I don't like reptiles. They're creepy to me, but they are interesting the way they work. Do you know what I mean? I think they just move in an unsettling way for me that I'm just like, you're not my pets. That is your human instinct working.

I knew it. That is your ancient primal brain saying, do not touch. Correctly so, right? Yes. It's an animal that is something that could harm you. So having an uneasiness about an animal that you very well should keep your distance from, that's just your human instinct working. I'm very pro reptile i love reptiles i'll hang out i don't hate them but i don't have it but it's accurate to have like that thing in your brain that's like no there are certain people that move in a certain way

that i don't care for do you know what i mean and i'm usually right about that that's that's called insight that is well it's it's wisdom which is means that knowledge has been beaten into you there you go that's what that is the hard way here here here yeah i like i like that you're distrustful of both reptiles and dolphins like you're really making sure to have a bead on the whole animal kingdom. It's great. I learned the dolphin thing. That's the wisdom because I was fishing off Marco Island. There's back channels all through there. It's really neat fishing because it's flat bottom, kind of shallow.

But our guide, and he's a Florida dude um born and raised on the fishing boat and he hated dolphins in a way that i didn't i'd never seen that before and he's already like talking shit i just thought it's funny because he was like talking trash about dolphins and you don't you don't hear that and then they came and they were like messing stuff up and then he showed me what they were he showed us what they were due to the environment and then they and all that and i was like oh he's like yeah they i was like okay i ain't dependent on okay yeah it's a completely one-sided beef with dolphins it was well he didn't like he did also didn't like some bird it It was all.

He had a bias towards getting to what he wanted and they were getting in the way. Sure. It's a competing fisherman. Right. Same industry. Yeah, that's exactly right. He was one with nature and he was fighting against them. Yeah, like manatees, I guess.

See, I brought it back. Right back around, yeah. manatees i guess see i brought it right back around yeah when and uh and with manatees being swimmers and being amazing in the water there's like a couple vast numbers here about the rest of their bodies the uh intestines for digesting all this plant the intestines can be up to 150 feet long which is over 45 meters and that's 10 times as long as a human's intestines. Also, manatees have two massive hemispherical lungs on their back. And that helps them control their buoyancy in the water. Also, next number is 90%. A manatee can exchange 90% of what's in its lungs in one breath. So when they surface for air, it's just one breath and then, you know,

usually set. And then last number is 15 miles per hour, or about 24 kilometers per hour. That's the maximum swimming speed of a manatee. They can actually move pretty fast. But National Geographic says that's only in short bursts, they usually move at five miles per hour or slower, because they're just being grazing sea cows out there, just eating the plants. Since you mentioned their buoyancy, did you come across anything to do with their digestive system and their buoyancy and how those two things interact? No, I'd love to know. Okay, so while you were talking, I thought about this and i was like i don't even know if this is true this is something i had seen hadn't really verified so i needed to google it real

quick and i found it on snopes and snopes evaluates this claim as true so i have confidence in saying that this is true like you mentioned manatees are mammals so being mammals they haven't evolved the swim bladder that a lot of fish have evolved to keep themselves buoyant in the water. But what they do have is this massive gastrointestinal system, and they eat a lot of grass. They eat a lot of foliage. And as with a lot of grass-eating animals, like Billy, you probably experienced with the cattle, eating a lot of grass and a lot of fibrous greens causes a lot of gas buildup inside of your digestive system.

And so manatees, after they've eaten a lot of grass, there's a lot of gas buildup in their body that makes them rise to the top. And then when they need to sink down to the bottom, they expel that gas by farting to lower themselves in the water column. So they actually use their flatulence as a buoyancy control. They will like fart to sink down. So they're like actually farting like, navigate through the water. It's spectacular. That's so good. It's kind of like a—it's like those rebreathing systems that Commandos use.

Yeah, just out the other end. It is. Like, it's—I was just thinking, I was like, I wonder if that's kind of where they got the idea for that technology. Right? It's like, how can we not make bubbles? And they're like, I've got an idea. One manatee general was like, I've got this.

And they had a little hat on. It's just, yeah, I fell asleep the other night watching Nova. Had a little hat on. I fell asleep the other night watching Nova. So I think I might have figured out how we can blow up some ships without being dead. I've got all the answers. It is. That is fascinating.

Because that was the first thing I was like, I think that's not where they got that. But swimming. That's biomechanical engineering but it is also like that's a weird concept that i don't think most people understand like to float you have to have air in your lungs like and if you don't you're gonna just so to float you just need to breathe and relax yeah like you fill your air you fill your lungs with air to go up and then you can just expel the air to to sink down into the water and manatees just don't necessarily do that out their mouth yeah that's awesome it's just optimal good job yeah it's just good behavior yeah

man that's amazing there's a and there's one more number before a couple of big takeaways for the main episode. And I, I'd have to double check, but I think this is the first time this has been a number in the numbers section. So folks bear with me. But the next number here is 69. Nice. Everyone's on cue. And 69 is the age in years of the world's oldest manatee on record. And unfortunately, this manatee has passed away.

But the Guardian did essentially an obituary in 2017. There was a male North American manatee named Snooty. And Snooty lived at the Bishop Museum of Science and Nature in Bradenton, Florida. Accidentally got stuck in a hatch in the aquarium, could not get back out and died in an accident. So he could have made it farther. So he didn't die of natural causes. So that's the other upshot is we don't know the true upper limit of manatee lifespans.

But they live a long time, like many decades if they're taken care of. And they don't really have natural predators, but humans tend to be what kills them. Yeah, that's the thing is like manatees are so big that there's just nothing really that lives around here that's big enough to take them on. So that I mean, that's why they don't there's no pressure for them to move any faster than they're moving because they're so chill and nothing can really do anything about it. Like we have because we have you know gators that don't really prey on like deep water stuff they're more on the shores and and they're they're going for smaller things than that um we've got sharks but our sharks don't get that big either uh they also tend to swim farther upstream than you'll usually find sharks uh some

like bull sharks can go farther into fresh water than other sharks can and bull sharks can also get huge but even then a bull shark probably isn't going to bother a manatee like they're they've just got it made they're just so bulky and don't really have they're like a retired species just in living in a state of perpetual retirement. Yeah, that's what I mean. As a species, we've kind of retired. We don't have to be... They did all their hard work already. Yeah, you know, we made it. We made it through.

We did a lot of... Yeah. That's why they're in Florida. Yeah, I do think it's all warm water. It's all like, what are you doing? Like, hey, it's cool. Every now and then we get hit by a boat we're in somewhere we shouldn't be it does sound like they're just like retired they're just vibing

i just imagined one wearing plaid shorts and one of those little hats like it's a fedora but for an older guy you know i love it they got a restricted diet now but sometimes they have a cheat day at margaritaville yeah it is you gotta live there is a character in the animal crossing video game that uh is in like the dlc for animal crossing that is exactly what you're describing is a manatee with the hat and with like a hawaiian shirt and shorts and stuff um he's adorable i think his name is waddle waddell perhaps i like that yeah he's adorable but he's exactly what you're saying oh that yeah wow and okay so a lot of times people will like come to florida like excited to see the manatees and they'll go to certain places expected like to with the purpose of seeing manatees and that's it's amazing to do that the thing is when you do see them they can be

remarkably boring like incredible it can be a huge letdown because first of all they don't have the dorsal fins that like dolphins and whales do so it can be incredibly difficult to know what you're looking at they look like a big rock basically in the water yes yes it's nothing it's just a big gray smooth lump and also they're so slow that it if you're not like if you're not right up on top of them you can barely tell that they're moving like you could it's like a shadow yes wow like last year i think i was at a park that i go to all the time and we were just kind of looking out at the river periodically over the period of like hours it was like two three hours we were out there and at one point i mentioned i was like that's weird that rock over there

is a little bit farther to the left than it was when we got here and the people next to us were like oh it's manatees and we went out on the pier and sure enough it was a big old manatee that was just moving so incredibly slowly that you really couldn't tell it was anything at all um so it can be a little underwhelming for people who are expecting to see them wow no they are it's just like, that reminds me of when people would be like, can we go look at the cows? And everybody would be like, what? I mean, okay.

Why? I mean, you want to go look out the window? Because that's what it's going to be. No, let's go see the cows. You're like, I'm not going. I'm not walking. No. We have to go out there twice a day and feed them.

Like, I'm not going out to see the cows right now. You're just hanging out? That is, that's very funny. Let's go see the rocks move. And you're like, okay. Like, I was just in Hawaii and there was, like, a bunch of sea turtles. But they're also, the way they, like, you know, lay their eggs and stuff, they're next to rocks that look like them because that's smart and camouflage.

Yeah, smart. Yeah. to rocks that look like them because that's smart and camouflage yeah smart yeah but you don't like i i would just walked over because there's a bunch of people looking at these rocks and i was like i wonder why they're looking at the rocks and then i was like no they're turtles okay but then i was like hey just leave them alone come on right right yeah giving giving manatee space is a huge thing around here because like like you said they do get hit by boats with such a frequency that the scars on the gashes on their backs is just like a feature of them now like i don't think i've ever seen a manatee that didn't have deep gashes on its back from run-ins with boats so actually as you're like if when you're on boats in like especially fresh waterways in florida there will usually be signs posted in areas where they'll say like a no wake

zone um you'll be going through areas where you know there's a very strict speed limit on how fast you're allowed to boat through these areas because the manatees are like i said they're so unnoticeable like they're so slow and difficult to tell that they're even there that you won't know there's a manatee swimming there until you've already hit it. You're going so fast and they're going so slow that you could just skim right over one and not realize it until it's too late. We have intense rules over where you can go fast on your boat and stuff, and it's to protect the manatees. where you can go fast on your boat and stuff and it's to protect the manatees well that you got we have a gas powered vehicle and they have a fart powered vehicle so it's just just two boats yeah yeah you know just two different systems and theirs is you know they do sometimes like dive down to to graze and stuff so you may not know that there's a manatee right

underneath you because they're down at the at the riverbed like feeding and stuff so you may not know that there's a manatee right underneath you because they're down at the at the riverbed like feeding and stuff so until you like right into one you're not gonna know that they're there but what's okay what's so funny about the way that they like navigate yes well okay so that's funny because the Little Mermaid being like mermaid mythology was inspired by manatees, which is why the manatee group is called Sirenia. It's a siren. There's some rumors about that. Horny dudes being like, I don't know, that rock looks pretty like a lady. I'm going to bring us into one of the takeaways because it's all about that we can go into takeaway number one famous moron christopher columbus mistook a group of manatees for mermaids all my homies hate christopher columbus yeah correct well he was awful it's a bad guy. Just like historically. He was wrong about a lot.

He documented how awful he was and he was like, check it out. And everyone's like, dude. He's like, right? Pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, the misidentification of manatees is only one. It's probably the least of his crimes. But he thought they were hot ladies, hot sea ladies.

Kind of, yeah. they weigh a thousand pounds the the weird part is he was like mean about them too so the the there's a few sources here one of them is a piece for national geographic by lang can i also piece for metal floss by air mccarthy and then an encyclopedia britannica rundown of Columbus's voyages. Because in January of 1493, Columbus was on his first voyage still started in 1492, famously. But he was in the Caribbean and in a ship's log entry, he said that he saw this, quote, distinctly saw three mermaids, which rose well out of the sea but they are not so beautiful as they are said to be for their faces had some masculine traits end quote so he's even like

a jerk about seeing what he thought was like a supernatural being but was almost definitely a north american manatee off of hispanola so funny that like he thought he had made this incredible discovery of like mermaids and still was like but they're ugly though like like how are you not overtaken by like the incredible spirit of discovery and exploration and the most important thing to you in this moment is they're not that hot like right but also they could be dudes like even like he was like uh these these ladies look like dudes and you're like they could be dudes it could be mer dudes yeah like it's like like so many assumptions you're right like it is that is like also like kind of like homophobic a little bit too because he's like uh, and you're like, you could be

attracted to that dude, that mer-dude dude, and that's okay. He's like, I would never be attracted to masculine traits. Okay, calm down. There's so many layers here, Chris, that we're working with. First of all, that's a sea cow.

You can't do that sea cow. Second of all, this is not India. I know you keep saying that. This is not India. Right. Yeah. Yeah, he just, like, it really speaks to all of the other ways he was a horrible person. Because, you know, he's obviously up to crimes against humanity on this whole trip.

And then in the meantime, he also, in his journal, journal was like i met mermaids and they're ugly like okay cool dude like you a great encapsulation of both like his stunning ignorance of the places that he was exploring and also like complete disregard for humanity like all encapsulated into one little quote yeah it is yeah he did sum his whole up and that was sorry i know okay but this is he's a frustrating thing yeah yeah that is that is and just i i still go back to being like that's the whole mermaid thing is just repressed horniness is you've just been out of, you haven't seen it for a long time.

And then you're like, I think that's hot. And you're like, that's a rock that's moving. I think it's like amplifying the human brain's tendency to want to look for visual patterns and things like giving me a vibe you know what i mean and you're like okay dude all right all right go for it he's gonna jump off the boat and he's gonna do that thing to the rock we're gonna go on the other side of the boat

we'll loop back around we'll pick him up later yeah we need larry back but we're gonna give him a minute well and uh and there's also like and i i want to emphasize this is very separate from columbus i'm pretty confident he had no knowledge of it but in africa and and also the parts of the world with dugongs then there were like legends and myths about these animals the west african manatee and the dugong being like mythological or mystical or goddesses. And apparently the name dugong, that word comes from the Malay language, a word for lady of the sea. And there were West African legends about water goddesses in the form of West African manatees. So that was definitely not on Columbus's mind.

And he, I think, just saw a new animal in a place he'd never been and for some reason decided it's supernatural. But people have been very excited about these creatures for a long time. And I think, Ellen, you mentioned Sirenia. That name is coming from a mermaid connection, a siren connection. Yeah. They have that sort of like mermaid. Dugongs even more so because dugongs have the fluked tail, whereas manatees don't. So manatees have a tail that's just completely round like a frying pan.

And then like there's has no flukes on it whatsoever. But the dugong does have the fluked tail like you would see on like a dolphin or a whale. So like you can see even more mermaid, what we think of as mermaid, like. Yeah, like me. Sort of imagery. The singer of as mermaid, like. Yeah, like me. Sort of imagery. The singer of part of your world. Yeah, sure. I understand.

Yes. But like, it's funny about them because like you mentioned that they're related to elephants, which at first you think, I don't see it at all. Other than the fact that they're big and round and gray. When you really see them eat, you can see how prehensile their lips are but they're actually surprisingly very good at like using their lips to like yank up like leaves or seagrass or something like they're really good at it you can see a little bit more elephant resemblance in that that's a great thing they're still here that you know what i mean

they're still like around yeah they're good that you know what i mean they're still like around yeah they're good at being animals yeah i mean they're like really lazy but they're still like there's some they got eaten and stuff so i just think you know are they smart like an elephant do we know i mean there are some like thoughts that maybe they're more intelligent than, I mean, I think that the problem is that we don't know how to measure it. Like we don't know how to communicate with a manatee in a way that it could express anything to us that we would understand. I know that some people have tried giving them, you know, like enrichment, like toys in captivity, or they've, you know know offered them some ways to kind of measure their intelligence it's kind of thought that maybe they probably are um i don't know if we would say that they're on the same level as elephants but also we don't elephants have a very good way of

communicating to us what they know because they have their trunk what they want us to know right like they're they're willing to to reveal themselves a little bit more, you know, but we can kind of manipulate objects the same way that elephants can with their trunk. So elephants are able to like play on our field a little bit better. But with manatees, I think humans just don't know how to communicate with them. There are some ways that they can. So their flippers are more dexterous than the flippers of whales or dolphins manatee flippers have a little bit more of a bony structure to them so manatees can kind of like

hold objects better than like a dolphin or a whale can they can like hold things like a seal kind of yeah they're better at that like they can we've seen them play with like pumpkins in uh in ebcot we've seen like them in the in the tanks there at ebcot where they'll actually kind of try to pull them away from each other so like these we watched these two manatees fighting over a pumpkin where they were using their flippers to kind of try to actually get their flippers around the pumpkin and pull it away um so you basically. You can see them. Yeah, they're just a little better at manipulating objects than I think maybe some other marine mammals are. I don't know if that necessarily translates to like, I don't know, critical thought or

analytical thinking or something like that. Yeah, like where do they lean politically, do you think? Staunchly leftist, every single man is. They do seem lazy yes i'll fight you i'm just saying i'm just yeah yeah fight you in person that's such a funny one like i don't think that's what that means um um if you talk to a leftist but lazy's not their game. And Alan, that's all amazing. There's the one other takeaway here.

There's one thing that also touches on their intelligence. So I think we can go into the other takeaway. Screw you, Christopher Columbus, to close out the previous one. But other takeaway here. Takeaway number two. Florida manatees have a strange relationship with coal power plants. And I get the sense that this is not like super positive. And it ties into a broader thing where human destruction of the environment is decreasing the number of manatees.

It's bad for them. decreasing the number of manatees. It's bad for them. But there is a modern thing where a lot of Florida manatees are now going to the places where there are coal power plants or other similar power stations to enjoy the resulting warm water, especially in the winter. Yeah, so they'll do that. Like they come into the state from all over during the winter because we have springs and warm rivers and stuff like that so they will do that everywhere but they do especially like the water surrounding power plants for exactly like you said the water is really warm from the power plant and the biggest problem from that is when the power plant shuts down um if they shut down the power plant the manatees continue coming to that spot

expecting that water to be warm but if that power plant has been shut down when the manatee comes there the water's cold and it's not what they expected and then they can suffer from that we've also experienced uh manatees starving in recent years like manatees were they've they've been doing better i think just a few years ago they got taken off of the iucn like endangered list uh which is great they're like doing better but then this year i believe over the winter this year uh there was a large scale manatee die off because there wasn't enough food available for them to eat because of you know us messing around with their environmental factors so manatees are always kind of in a precarious situation where like sometimes they're doing really well sometimes they're really not

um this summer i think this winter i think was particularly rough for manatees and luckily they're charismatic right they're cute and everybody loves a manatee. So it's pretty easy to get people on board with like initiatives to save manatees. So I think they at least have that going for them. I heard a lot about that at the zoo about like, I think they called it charismatic megafauna. Because like a big beloved animal, it just gets a lot more care from zoos and everything else. Because people are like, oh, this polar bear rules and this centipede can die oh who cares great yeah uh manatees are very popular to use as like flagship animals here like if you have like an estuary or like a you know a spring or something like that that is in some sort of environmental peril the manatee is a great like a flagship basis of the face of the operation.

Celebrity. Right. Yes. It's like, they'll be like, if you need help, like saving your estuary or saving your like tributary or whatever type of body of water it is,

you can be like, save the manatees. Even if it's like more of a general effort to save that whole like wetland area, you slap the manatees on it. That's big money right there. Everybody wants to save manate like wetland area you slap the manatees on it that's big money right there everybody wants to save manatees uh so they can you can have kind of an easier time getting stuff by if you frame it as saving the manatees so like i'm a big fan of leveraging charismatic

megafauna i i understand that like they can bring attention away from other animals that are like in danger as well even even more so. But if you can, like, you know, like a rising tide lifts all ships, you know, like you can use the manatee as like the cute and cuddly let's save the

estuary sort of like you can, you can use it to drum up support. Like a panda. Yes, exactly. Like it's our panda. It is. I,

I also just the rising tide thing really made me think about their farts again. So I'm really enjoying that experience. I think they should rebrand from the sea cow to the sea panda. That's fair. I just like the thought of them hanging out. And then when I'm just thinking, they're like, Larry's farting. Larry. And you're like, I'm sorry I just ate.

Sorry. And I'm going gonna eat more going down for food but i i do want to hit how this power thing works because bloomberg is the big source for this also national geographic and the radio station wlrn fm in in Miami. But Bloomberg says several decades ago, people started building power plants in a lot of parts of Florida that didn't have it before. And a lot of them built them near waterways or near the shore because they figured out that when burning coal, they need coolant and they can just use the water as coolant. So they're taking the regular temperature water, run it through the plant in a system called once through cooling. The water absorbs all the heat, and then they're pushing hot water back into the system. So, you know, it's not pollution other than the huge temperature increase, which is pollution. But manatees are intelligent and figured out that those hot spots are great to be in. Through learning or communication or some intelligence, they're able to pass on these migration paths amongst each other.

And as you said, Ellen, they will tragically come where a plant used to be running. But also, you know, these plants that keep on running, then they have a thing where sometimes they have like a manatee viewing area at the coal power plant with these huge cartoony smokestacks. And that's the situation for some of these manatee viewing area at the coal power plant with these huge cartoony smokestacks. And that's the situation for some of these manatees. They're like, it's January. I'm heading to the power plant. That's where I'm going.

It's like a Miami spring break for manatees. Yeah. And then the U.S. in 1972 passed the Clean Water Act. It regulated what's called thermal pollution when an industry dumps hot water into an ecosystem. And some Florida plants were able to negotiate an exception specifically because they showed that, hey, manatees love this. And manatees have always lived in Florida without the assistance of a coal power plant. But now they like it. And so they'll

go to this human heat, a lot of them. And so yeah, that's the situation with them where they have this warmth in the winter. And then, as you said, Ellen, like lately, there's been a big die off of manatees. It's in particular because of algae blooms, the algae will kill the grass they eat, or there's some that are called red tides that are directly toxic to manatees. And so, you know, stuff like coal power is not a solution to helping manatees, but there's also this weird wrinkle in that whole system. Well, they're using what she said. Like, that, they're using the manatees for, like, corporate s*** in the power plant. Using them as a shield from responsibility.

Exactly. Yeah, that's right. So that's what they're doing. Because it is, like, just studying plants. Like, if you change the temperature a little bit, it affects everything that you're doing. So when you change the water temperature, it's like, sure, we're protecting them, but now they can't eat food.

It's like, God. Right. They they can't eat food it's like god right they're like won't somebody think of the manatees those those mofos will figure another place to go somewhere else like that's what they're doing yeah like they're adapt they've been adapting for you know millions and millions of years right they've been retired for years for years of experience under their belt for they've always been retired so they're good born retired that would be like if reincarnation reincarnation's real you come back and you're like oh yeah i'm a manatee! That's the final step, actually. That is it. That's how you know you're born as a manatee.

You're like, ah, the end of the cycle. Finally, I did something right. All I gotta do is take a boat. Every now and then I'm good to go. A small price to pay. That sounds good to me. People walk over me all the time. Folks, that is the main episode for this week. My thanks to Billy Wayne Davis and Ellen Weatherford for both going with the flow of the episode and bringing in all kinds of amazing Florida and Southeast experiences.

I really think that made this the perfect way to do it. Anyway, I said that's the main episode because there is more secretly incredibly fascinating stuff available to you right now. If you support this show on Patreon dot com, patrons get a bonus show every week where we explore one obviously incredibly fascinating story related to the main episode. This week's bonus topic is strange ways individual humans are trying to help out Florida's manatees. Visit SIFpod.fun for that bonus show, for a library of more than eight dozen other bonus shows, and to back this entire podcast operation. And thank you for exploring manatees with us. Here's one more run through the big takeaways.

Takeaway number one, famous moron Christopher Columbus mistook a group of manatees for mermaids. Takeaway number two, Florida's manatees have a strange relationship with coal power plants. Plus tons and tons of numbers about manatee bodies, populations, distribution, and more. Those are the takeaways. Also, please follow my guests. They're great. Billy Wayne Davis is a really wonderful podcaster. As you heard, as you know, he makes the show Grown Local, all about cannabis in particular, and in a lot of surprising ways. He also makes the Patreon podcast Wayne Davis, where you can just directly get a bunch of Billy Wayne Davis. And then Ellen Weatherford get a bunch of Billy Wayne Davis.

And then Ellen Weatherford is co-host, along with her husband Christian, of a wonderful animal podcast. It is called Just the Zoo of Us. It's reviews of animals. They review two animals every episode. Also, as you heard, they're residents of Jacksonville, Florida. And so there's all kinds of just amazing local color of the Florida stuff too. It's a really chill and awesome and informative show, and I hope you like it. Many research sources this week. Here are some key ones. If there's a key source this week, it's probably National Geographic. Many thanks to writers Lang Kanai, Gina Steffens, Joel Sartor, to name a few. Also an amazing piece for Bloomberg Business Week by Maya Fraser, reporting for WLRN-FM Miami by Amy Green. Find those and many more sources in this episode's links at sifpod.fun. And beyond all that, our theme music is Unbroken Unshaven by The Budos Band. Our show logo is by artist Burton Durand. Special thanks to Chris Souza for audio mastering on this episode.

Extra, extra special thanks go to our patrons. I hope you love this week's bonus show. And thank you to all our listeners. I'm thrilled to say we will be back next week with more secretly incredibly fascinating. So how about that? Talk to you then.