Secretly Incredibly Fascinating - Soda Cans

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

Alex Schmidt, Katie Goldin, and special guest Jordan Morris explore why soda cans are secretly incredibly fascinating.Visit http://sifpod.fun/ for research sources and for this week's bonus episode.Visit https://maximumfun.org/boco to get your digital art for Episode 200! There are also posters in the vault for Episodes 50, 100, and 150.Come hang out with us on the SIF Discord: https://discord.gg/wbR96nsGg5Get tickets to see us LIVE at the London Podcast Festival this September: https://www.kingsplace.co.uk/whats-on/comedy/secretly-incredibly-fascinating/

Soda cans. Known for being metal. Famous for being a poppy top on the metal. Nobody thinks much about them, so let's have some fun. Let's find out why soda cans are secretly incredibly fascinating. Hey there, folks. Welcome to a whole new podcast episode, a podcast all about why being alive is more interesting than people think it is. My name is Alex Schmidt, and I'm very much not alone. I'm joined by my co-host, Katie Golden. Katie, hello. Hi. Hello. Sorry, I did that when you were drinking. That's just me being fun. I did a spit take right into water everywhere. And we're joined by an additional guest for this topic. I hope you know him from all sorts of wonderful podcasting, YouTubing, writing, comics writing.

He's the author of the new graphic novel Youth Group, out soon, pre-order now. Please welcome Jordan Morris. Jordan, hey. Hi, I am glad to be here. Oh, he got to drink. Wait, so this isn't fair. He got to drink after he said his thing. And I had to drink during it.

This is a sipping podcast, right? Like that's why people are tuning in for sipping noises? For sips. Gentle sips. Gotta have my weekly sips. Everyone else on the show has one of those hamster water dispensers and I pull a lever to release it. I decide when, you know, so that was very unfair. You are the sip master.

We're in sort of a Skinner's box situation. Yeah, the Schmitter's box. Yeah, sure. That's how it goes. Yeah. So wait, we're both alive and dead at the same time. Am I getting that right? Yeah, that's that's the same one. One lever kills us and the other dispenses sweet sugar water.

Perfect segue, because our topic this week was suggested by listener Alex Tatlak. Thank you, Alex, for suggesting and supporting the show and did very well in the polls. I think we'll start with Jordan. What is your relationship to or opinion of the topic of soda cans? In the first half of my life, I was a heavy soda drinker. We, you know, growing up, we just had a soda fridge out in the garage and we just like had one with dinner. So lots of, lots of coke lots of dr pepper all the faves uh not to go too gross too early but i had a kidney stone at like 24 like way earlier than one is supposed like you're not supposed to have a kidney stone at all but i had one like

crazy early and the doctor just said it was like from a lifetime of soda consumption. It just all built up in there and came out through the world's most inconvenient hole. Um, so yeah, so I, I hard card quit after that. Um,

just lots of water, water all the time. Love water. I've gotten to the point where I can have like an occasional soda, but it's usually a fountain soda. So it's usually like a soda with pizza, maybe one at the movies. And that's kind of like a treat. A social sip. Social sipping.

Yes, exactly. A case specific social sip. I'll pull the lever for that. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. But I don't drink a ton of beverages out of cans anymore. I do like a sparkling water, but I'll usually have it over ice uh but the the can that i am most into these days is the liquid death waters have you guys had the liquid death waters i have seen them i've i've never i've never tried a liquid death they are a a water brand with like heavy metal graphics. It's all maybe a little obnoxious and a little, just a tad cringe calling your water liquid death

and having heavy metal skulls all over it. But I really like drinking them. I think the water tastes really good in them. It keeps it nice and cold. That big can is kind of nice for music festivals and concerts. i feel like it stops me from getting a bunch of expensive venue drinks because i have this thing i can kind of sip on yeah so i don't know i'm a liquid death fan despite their their kind of try hard advertising

so i'm i'm also a social sipper when it comes to soda. I don't do it every day. It's just sort of on special occasions. If I'm at a party or something and I feel like I just need to hold something, but I don't want to drink and I don't want to just have water or something, the La Croix, even though the flavor of it is not too impressive, then I just have a thing to hold and to sip. And it's a little fizzy, which I like. I love this topic suggestion of soda cans, because it turns out there's a whole amazing episode just about soda cans. So if people want to know about beer or canning in general or aluminum in general, that's kind of separate. There's just amazing soda can stuff today. It's great. Yeah. Soda cans.

I couldn't believe it, but it turns out, yeah. There's some kind of can stuff today. It's great. Yeah. Soda cans. I couldn't believe it. But it turns out. Yeah. There's some kind of Pavlovian response that has been deeply ingrained into me when I hear the little snappy of like, you know, you have the little tab and you push into the can and then it makes that little sound. And then I'm just, I have already, my body is already prepared for the sugar and the carbonation. So I. It says, it suggests, it suggests summer.

It suggests refreshment. I mean, yeah, there's a reason why every soda commercial includes a like super loud. It just works. It feels great. It's like a starter pistol, but for being 10 years old. Yeah, it's great. It's a starter pistol for chilling out. I've really never, you know what? And even though I do occasionally have alcohol, I've never, or like a beer or something. And there are beers that I like. I like. Nothing has ever actually topped the experience of canned root beer or canned cream soda or something where it's like, that's just peak for

me. Canned root beer is peak. I can't beat it. There's no adult beer, no fancy adult beer that can ever recapture a good canned root beer for me. Yeah. Take that, brewers. Get out of here. Yeah. You failed. Get out of here. Just give me that root. Give me that straight root.

All your IPAs, not enough root in there, fellas. All those elements of the can. We'll start talking about them with a quick set of fascinating numbers and statistics. And this week that is in a segment called... They're gonna put me in the SIFT pod. They're gonna make a number out of me. The biggest count with Alex and with Katie. And it's gotta be statistically. That name was submitted by Enus Minus Minus Most on the Discord

Thank you Enus Minus We have a new name for this every week Please make a massillion wacky and bad as possible Submit through Discord or to sifpod at gmail.com I wish I used to have a mouth Like a mouth harp thing And I wish I had that for that You know

That feels right A listener has sent me one There used to be like a Snoopy brand of that harp and I wish I had that for that. Oh. You know? That feels right. A listener has sent me one. There used to be like a Snoopy brand of that harp. A Snoopy brand mouth harp? I know. Is it shaped like a Snoopy? No, he's just on the box and stuff.

Okay. Yeah, I see. He just endorses it. It's the one he personally uses at hoedowns. Yeah. I was thinking of some kind of weird Snoopy-shaped mouth harp, so you're kind of French-kissing Snoopy to create music, which, you know, I don't think is a bad thing.

He is a weird endorser for a product that goes in a human mouth. He's not. Right. You know, he thinks he's a person a lot, but he's not built like me. He does trick Lucy into kissing him on the mouth. That's so, it kind of is on brand for him to trick you. Yeah, kissing him on the mouth. That's so it kind of is on brand for him. Yeah, maybe that's the maybe that's the connection.

Making mouth contact with a dog mouth harp that he's used. Snoopy had gambling problems. He was just endorsing everything. He had to make that money back somehow. So he just went slapping his face on. World War I flashbacks. Yeah, exactly. Snoopy had a tough life. A lot of problems. He really did. Anything. Anything they could slap his face on. World War I flashbacks. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Snoopy had a tough life.

A lot of problems. He really did. Anything. Anything they could slap his face on. Snoopy brand industrial solvent. And the first number for soda cans is two to three atmospheres. Two to three atmospheres. That's how much pressure the contents of a soda can

are packaged at. So that's why it makes that little sound. Yeah. I had not really known that an atmosphere is a unit of measurement, but it's a scientific unit for the air pressure on earth in a broadly what I would call normal situation, like middling temperature, kind of close to sea level. And the can is liquid and carbon dioxide. They pack it into it at two to three times the air pressure of being just in the air on Earth. And so, yeah, when you open it, you get the pshh because carbon dioxide is zooming out of it immediately.

That's the sound of atmospheres. That's really wonderful. That is, in fact, fascinating, which is, you know, immediately that's the sound of atmospheres that's that's that's really wonderful that is that is in fact fascinating which is oh you know kind of what the podcast promises so he's doing it early at everything katie look at this charming guest oh he said the f word you're right bleep it out uh so and one just makes it sound like i'm saying something filthy yeah what does jordan morris do to soda cans geez oh wow oh was he drunk why was he swearing so much on this podcast about aluminum.

One key source is University of Illinois chemical engineering professor Bill Hammack. He's the author of the book, The Things We Make. That's a chill name. Yeah. I like that name, Bill Hammack. It's with two A's, but it feels that way, yeah. He's the author of The Things We Make, The Unknown History of Invention from Cathedrals to Soda Cans. He says that modern soda cans are capable of having their contents heated or stressed to as high as six atmospheres of pressure without the can breaking or rupturing.

So you can leave it in the sun or whatever for a while, and it can be more than double its pressure and still not blow up yet. That seems cool. But don't leave it forever. It will like rupture eventually. Right, right. So, yeah, I mean, I don't have a great sense of proportion here, right? Like in terms of like how much is six atmospheres of pressure? Like when we're at sea level, how many of atmospheres of pressure are we under?

We're under one. One is like default, basically. Okay. So if you imagine sort of the pressure you're feeling right now, times that by six, and that's what's going on maximum in that can. Yeah. And it's a lot less pressure than like a submarine is under, but it's still pretty high pressure for what's in there. And the other amazing thing that does is it makes a closed soda can extraordinarily strong. Even if you have all the liquid in it, an open soda can is pretty easy to crush. But an upright closed soda can can support the weight of an adult human standing on top of the top. If you just set it on the ground and stand on it, it won't break or anything.

And be careful standing on one if you're trying it. Don't turn an ankle or whatever. But it should support your weight if you just set it on the ground and stand on it, it won't break or anything. And be careful standing on one if you're trying it. Don't turn an ankle or whatever, but it should support your weight if you do it. Yeah. Get a stepladder if you need to change a light bulb. Don't just stand on a bunch of sprites. I'm stacking sprites, tying them together and walking around and you can't stop me. Big Katie, I call myself now. And my favorite number from Bill Hammack's book is 91%.

91%. That is how much physical space gets dedicated to liquid if you put your liquid in cylinders and stack them all together. liquid in cylinders and stack them all together. Like if you have a bunch of cylinders of a liquid, only 9% of the space in that container is the gaps between the cylinders and other, I suppose you could call it wasted space. And that number is kind of the main reason soda is in cylinder shaped cans. It's a very efficient and strong shape for putting soda in. It's just like beehives, you know know how they have the little hexagons. We're like, why do they design it that way? Because that's the most efficient way to cram in as many larvae as you can.

We do the same thing with soda. Yeah. It's full of larvae. I love a cold glass of larvae on a hot summer day. Bees love soda, by the way. Man, they sure love it. You open up that can, those little bees, they hear the pshh from miles away. We did a recent caffeine episode.

We talked about bees seeking out caffeine from plants. I guess they really relate to bees and beverages. They really, they're really on a ball. Bees, they're so, they're so like us. We, you know, we talk about how similar the apes are to humans, but I think we have more in common with bees. Yeah. They're social.

Pretty much bees. They have jobs. Yeah. And of course we all worship our queen, a Beyonce, right? I'm going to bring her royal jelly or whatever. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, the cylinders, it's almost like a hive of soda I want because it turns out that we could put soda in any other geometric shape.

For example, a sphere would probably be stronger structurally, but if you stack spheres, that space where there's a big pile of spheres, there's only liquid in 74% of the space and the rest is gaps between the spheres. That'd be cool though. It would be, yeah, it would be fun. And the other problem is spheres roll away. Yeah. So if you're like drinking a sphere of soda, you can't like put it down. Yeah. So a cylinder is way better in both ways. But that would be fun to just like be sipping out of a sphere.

Just pondering my orb of soda. At Disneyland, they have like a Star Wars area. And in the Star Wars area, the Cokes and diet cokes and sprite come do come in these little spheres that kind of look like grenades they're like spheres with a spout at the top and they have like alien writing on them and yeah like i mentioned you know just like having a coke in the middle of the day is not something i do but every time i go there i am like maybe i want a little sphere of coke it hasn't actually worked on me to the point where I've bought one, but it is hard to resist the appeal of those Coke spheres.

They do look really cool. I would not be able to resist the sphere. I'd immediately purchase the sphere and drink the sphere. If you give me a fluid, like if you give me any food or drink in a sphere, I'm sold. I'm like, I love that. I love this orb and I want to eat it. I don't know what it is. Yeah, I'm in.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm 100% sold. Yeah. Shapes. Cool shape. I'll put it in my mouth. And then in the other direction, rectangular containers would store more volume in that big pile, but the squared edges would be a lot weaker structurally and the metal would cut our hands.

So that's why beverages like milk and coconut water, they're in paper cartons. That rectangle works, but not for soda. Right. Don't want to poke an eye out with your soda. And it also turns out one of the key structural parts is that dome in the bottom of a soda can. Right. It turns out that's much stronger than a flat bottom and requires less metal because it's so much stronger. You can put less material into it. And yeah, beyond structural stuff, the other benefit of cylinders for soda cans is marketing because it's one of the easiest shapes to make taller.

And that brings us into takeaway number one. The dominant trend in modern soda marketing is changing the size of the can. Oh, right. You do have the teeny tiny Cokes, but you also have the Tall Boys. Right. I do like my supermarket in the checkout area. You can get a Tall Boy of flavored sparkling water, a bubbly brand. I am absolutely drawn in by a slightly taller can. I am absolutely drawn in by a slightly taller can.

Yeah, I like the different can dimensions because either I get to be a Gandalf in a Hobbit home or like a Hobbit in a Gandalf home. And that's always fun. Like I like to feel large where it's like I've got a tiny soda can and I'm looking at it with my hand. It's like, wow, I must be large and in charge. But then it's also fun to feel tiny sometimes. It's like, wow, this soda is taller and bigger than normal. I must be little and tiny. It's a good feeling. Yeah. And either way, the can fuels you to destroy the ring, you know? So it's great. It's a win-win. Yeah. It turns out we all feel this way globally. And the industry name for the marketing technique is price pack architecture.

It is a technique of instead of developing new flavors or new products, putting your exact same product in new sizes and shapes of packaging. The key sources here are tastingtable.com, also a great episode of Planet Money, the NPR show and blog and everything. They say that around 2011, U.S. Pepsi bottlers tried 12-ounce cans of Pepsi that are just taller and skinnier. And that marketing push didn't really work out, but it's been revived because companies learned that this technique of price pack architecture works across all bigger or smaller sizes of these drinks. And it's very successful and the lowest possible risk. Because even if somebody is not thrilled about the package, if your store only has that, you're like, well, I still want Coke. So great.

You're not going to refuse a cylinder that's just a little taller than what you're used to unless you're really a purist. Yeah. And then apparently the taller can is a form of almost making the product a billboard. It's just a little bit more visually noticeable. It's like what you were saying, Jordan, about the checkout line, like it being so tall, it helps catch your eye more than the short usual can does. And like the marketing's that simple. We're that way. We're like, oh, I see it. Maybe I'll buy it. Great. An interesting fact I heard when a fast food place or like a chain restaurant advertises, you know, a new item like the, you know, it's the, it's the bacon jalapeno bomb burger.

It will get you to go to the restaurant, but you will probably usually get what you normally get, or you'll like, if you go to McDonald's, you'll probably get a Big Mac or chicken nuggets. But that new item is just to kind of like catch your eye and remind you of the restaurant. But those things always sell a fraction of what the favorites do. So maybe that is partially where these weirdo can shapes come from. It's to like make you notice Coke, but then you'll probably just buy that standard can of Coke. Yeah, that's absolutely true. It's just one more reason to think about it. And it's a default thing that you already like. So it's a winning thing.

Yeah. Yeah. I'll bet people who say that they hate the McRib, it's because the McRib enticed them to go get what they actually like at McDonald's. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And apparently the biggest marketing win of this current century in soda sales is the 7.5 ounce mini can.

The smaller one, you know, it happens to be 7.5 ounces. Coke debuted it in 2009. And according to NPR, there's an ironic success there because like the novelty brings people in, but also that has particularly raised soda sales because mini cans bring people in who otherwise wouldn't drink soda at all. Yeah. If they would say, a can of soda is too much. I just, I'm not going to get anything. The mini can won a lot of those folks over where they said, oh, it's smaller. So now I'm back in. Great.

My husband makes fun of me for this, which is that I will break food in half and eat one half and then break the other half in half again and eat a fourth and then the other fourth. So I've eaten the entire item, right? But the idea is like, no, no, I couldn't possibly, but then I could possibly. And then I do that again. So I wonder if that happens with these little cans, like you have like two or three little cans. So you are end up, you do end up having like a full soda, but you're like, oh, I'll just have a little sip of my little tiny, uh, twee little can. And then you have another one. It's like, but it's so tiny and small. It basically doesn't count. Now I've had five of

them. Katie, maybe this, this breaking things in half, uh, habit relates to your liking to feel different sizes. So like over the course of that one cookie, you're feeling like you're three or four different sizes. So you get to go on that journey too. Yeah. I really want an Alice in Wonderland situation where I get real big, real tall size of a house and then get really small size, size of like a thimble. Yeah. Oh yeah. I think we'd all like that to happen. It's just fun. It's a fun experience.

And yeah. And then another form of price back architecture goes super the other way, which is that in Latin America, Coke has introduced 3.3 liter bottles. That's the new marketing. Like they, they also try new flavors like Coke Spiced or something, but the safest and most successful move is new sizes or even just new shapes of the can. People are starting to buy up 12-ounce cans that are just taller and skinnier. Apparently, some people say it reminds them of a Perrier sparkling water or a more upscale beverage, even though we all know it's the same liquid. No one's lying and saying it's different liquid. Maybe it kind of implies that it's better for you calorically. It's like skinny.

Yeah. All right. Like I will be. Yeah, exactly. I'll look like that in a hot can if I drink enough of these. Because, you know, I think maybe the reason a lot of people avoid sodas is like they're watching their calories. So something that makes you think skinny, maybe that gets you past that block, gets you to buy the soda. Yeah, I mean, that's interesting because that kind of reminds me of the death water that you drink. Sorry, liquid death, not death water.

Liquid death. Because it's like you have a nice vessel, right? Like a nice vessel that feels right, especially for the event you're at. And it enhances your water drinking experience. And I think that's really important with like the vessel from which you drink something or eat or even like utensils seems to really impact your experience of that thing. I think I read a study a while back where people who used heavier eating utensils, like forks and knives that weighed heavier, rated the taste of their food better than with lighter utensils because it felt more like, oh, this fork has some heft to it.

My mashed potatoes must be high quality. And so like, you know, because like there is something different between drinking like, say, wine out of a Dixie cup versus like a goblet. Yeah. One feels much fancier. And so I wonder with these different cans, it's like you have different sort of psychological impacts of these cans. It's like you have different sort of psychological impacts of these cans, like a can that feels maybe like heavier and more substantial. It's like I'm really getting some good nutrition from this soda versus a can that's like skinny and sort of like lighter and easier to pick up and your hand wraps around it further. You're like, well, this is barely anything. I'm not drinking too much soda here.

it further, you're like, well, this is barely anything. I'm not drinking too much soda here. Yeah. That like shape and art and vibe, it is so powerful with a can, like a bottle, you can often see some of the liquid inside. A can could just be anything at all. Yeah. There could be anything in there. And oddly, speaking of what's in there structurally, the next thing here is takeaway number two. Soda cans are not just aluminum, and some of that aluminum becomes spacecraft. What? Yeah.

It turns out there's like a complicated set of materials in there, and that same basic aluminum gets used by some companies for all kinds of other applications, including rockets and satellites. So is it sort of a continual thing? So when we recycle our soda cans, does that soda can material go into space? Yeah, it can. Yeah, there's no way to know if your can got there, but yeah, they use some of the recyclable material. I'd feel it. I'd feel it. You have a connection to every can. I, there's no way to know if your can got there. But yeah, they use some of the recyclable. I'd feel it. I'd feel it. You have a connection to every can. I'd know it. Yeah, yeah. There's lots of key sources here. Popular Science, Discovery Channel, Wired Magazine.

And the very first thing to say is not all soda cans are primarily aluminum, especially in some non-U.S. countries like Japan, they use steel. And it's a similar experience, including that you can recycle it. But we'll mainly talk about aluminum cans right here. Aluminum cans, probably the first recycling I ever did. We were big, like, take them down to the recycling center and get four bucks or something. That was always a lot of fun. Yeah, I think for us too. And along with cardboard, those are kind of the dominant materials that Americans recycle effectively. The facilities are good and people know how to do it and the material recycles well. And in particular, aluminum. Apparently, it's pretty much infinitely recyclable. And aluminum could be its own episode, but as a metal that recycles very,

very well. Yeah. Cause I thought that plastic recycling, depending on your location, obviously isn't always like that good or doesn't necessarily happen even if you do recycle the plastic. Um, whereas like we do actually get a lot out of recycling metal and aluminum. We do. And the odd thing with plastic is your aluminum can of soda or basically any other food or beverage, it's not just aluminum. Soda cans have an extremely thin lining of epoxy or lacquer inside, which is pretty much a plastic. And it's there to protect the cans metal from the acid and the soda. It would be impossible to make cans of soda without this.

Does that, cause I wonder, cause I, I I'm on this new, perhaps a completely pointless endeavor to try to reduce microplastics in my life. It's probably pointless, but, uh, cause I was thinking like, you thinking, if I get something in a metal can, that seems like I wouldn't be getting microplastics. But if there's a plastic lining inside the can, I guess it depends on how stable that plastic lining is, whether it's shedding microplastics. Yeah. And in general, it doesn't seem to be a huge pollution problem, especially compared to our other ones. The thickness is a couple of microns, which is an incredibly tiny unit of measurement. And the amazing thing is when we recycle aluminum cans, that's technically sort

of a mixed material because it's metal and also this epoxy stuff. but aluminum doesn't melt below a temperature of 660 Celsius, 1,200 Fahrenheit. Way below that temperature, the epoxy or lacquer just vaporizes and melts away. And so they're still very easy to recycle. And we're burning that away in a way that's probably not great, but it seems to be much less of an issue than our other pollution. Probably not great, but it seems to be much less of an issue than our other pollution. And the other amazing thing about the lining is apparently if you had an aluminum can of Coca-Cola with no lining, it would rust and corrode the metal within three days. The acid in the soda would just start corroding that metal immediately without a lining there. I feel like there's all sorts of reminders of like how toxic soda is isn't that like uh isn't that like half the experiments you do in elementary

school it's like put something in soda for three days and it'll catch fire yeah like isn't there the thing like you put teeth inside soda i don't know where people are getting these teeth but you put like teeth inside of Coca-Cola and it dissolves the tooth. Yeah, that is a popular experiment that I guess suggests that some people just have teeth laying around. Right. I mean, the tooth

fairy takes them, so how are you getting them? Do you have a lot of teeth that you need to render indistinguishable from a slurry? Do you need to get rid of teeth because they might be evidence at some point? And my main takeaway is like Coke is bad for me. Oh, no. I always have this disgusting thought of like, what does that tooth soup taste like?

Like once you've dissolved the tooth in the soda, what if you took a little sip? Would you be able to, would there be a hint of tooth in it? Okay, everybody look under your chairs. I've prepared a little surprise. There's a bowl of tooth soup. Yeah, but I mean, it is really bad. Like soda is quite bad for your teeth, right? I've also heard this in terms of coffee. It's actually better to have your coffee quickly rather than having it slowly

throughout the day because you're not like the acidic substance like the soda or the coffee sitting on your teeth. I know as a kid, I used to take drinks of soda and then hold it in my mouth for two or three hours. Don't do that. Always, always swallow. If that's the, if there's any lesson you should take away from this podcast, if you're putting it in your mouth, you got to swallow it at some point. Don't just hold it in there. Yeah.

But you want to get that nice sort of like enamel aftertaste. Exactly. Yeah. And that's what you want, I guess. aftertaste. Exactly. Yeah. And that's what you want, I guess. I guess good news regarding this is that not just soda needs this lining. Basically, all canned goods at a modern store have a similar lining. And apparently in particular, like beets and plums and rhubarb can rip through a can without a lining. And there's a recent health concern that there's just a lot of information

in both directions about BPAs, bisphenol A. Apparently that's a common element of linings, but doesn't necessarily have to be in the lining. So a lot of companies are taking that out now. I see. That's one of those things where I'm just like, I don't know what this is, but people are telling me it's bad now, so I hate it. I hate BPAs. I didn't know what this is but people are telling me it's bad now so i hate it yeah i hate bpas i don't i didn't know what they were still don't really know what they are but i hate them get them out of here yeah my question is why don't we cover our teeth in this stuff right like if it prevents for eroding not bpas make the plane out of the VPAs, right? Not just the black box. Make our teeth out of the soda can.

Oh, I see. We covered our teeth in this epoxy, right? Because then Jordan can hold the soda in his mouth. Yeah, there you go. I love it. Yeah. I love to hold them in. Yeah, I love it in there. I love to chug.

I don't love to swallow. So that's perfect. Soda can teeth are perfect for me. Sort of like a soda connoisseur. You swish it around your mouth. Exactly. You have a spit bucket. Right. Yeah. And soda can recycling, it's not a totally perfect loop, but it's pretty good. Another number is 95%.

Another number is 95%. Popular Mechanics says recycling an aluminum can saves 95% of the energy that it would take to get aluminum to make a whole new can. So the recycling is good. And there is also a fun possible new life of your soda can. In particular, in modern times, because giant companies are making these cans, and they don't just make cans. The best example is a company called Ball. Before researching, I had heard of Ball because of their glass jars. They're the one where it's like a glass jar with a two-part metal lid, like a flat bit and then a screwing bit. Right, right, right. That's the Ball company. And they have a very weird corporate history. Apparently, before they made that, they were founded in Buffalo, New York in 1880 to make tin cans for old-timey household chemicals like kerosene. And then they found out they could be hugely successful making glass jars for food. And in the 1930s, they were making one and a half glass jars per living American every year. So the entire population could have one and a half glass jars per living American every year. So the entire

population could have one and a half jars from just Ball's production. Wow. Yeah, we were Ball's deep in jars. It was right there. That's true. Yeah. And then from there, Ball diversified. They started doing metal components for appliances and for cars, also for World War II vehicles and planes. And then they said, hey, we could use this engineering expertise to make metal beverage cans. And they got so into that that by the 1990s, they sold off the glass jar division. And they don't do that anymore. They just make cans like all the time. Who's covering our glass jar needs now?

It's either an old ball jar or just other companies imitating them. Like there's a lot of ball ones still floating around because they last a long time. But yeah, they like sold off that division and moved on to aluminum. They're way into it. I see. Okay. And they're now the world's number one maker of beverage cans. They also make household products involving aluminum. And then their other third big thing is aerospace technology. Not just airplanes,

not just defense contractor stuff, but same general kind of aluminum that we use for soda cans is great for building the outsides of rockets, building satellites. And so if you make sure to recycle your soda can, there's a not zero chance it will be part of something that goes to space. Nice. I feel that. I feel like some of my cans are up there looking down at me, winking. My spit is in space. I'm certain of it. See, before you were getting a perspective from the can, now the can has changed its perspective on you.

Right. Like now you're tiny. Trippy, dude. The can gazes also into you. If one of these satellites ever escapes orbit and crash lands on some planet and it's still got a little bit of my backwash in it, could I colonize a new planet with my mouth bacteria? Oh, that's interesting. That's an interesting what if.

Yeah. Could that be where we're from? Alien cans. Oh, right. We're all just backwashed from an alien Mountain Dew. That could be. You know, look, we can't count it out. Well, there's one more number here, and the number is 1985, because that's when a NASA space shuttle mission brought cans of Coke and Pepsi to space. And the Smithsonian has them now, because it's the first and last time that happened.

So they just took them up there and didn't drink them? They did drink them and it was gross. Oh, we've got the empty cans. Okay. And apparently in 1984, Coke's engineers said, can we develop a nozzle type thing to put on a specially designed Coke can so that astronauts can drink cans of Coke in low gravity, microgravity, and in space. And they built it.

Right. So this like sort of like shoot the Coke at high enough velocities it would get in your mouth versus form globules in the air that messed with the electronics. Yeah. Well, Link Pictures is sort of like a very plastic baby bottle or something. Like the idea is just there's a nozzle that there's a seal between your mouth and the cannons. It won't break the ship. I see. A sippy cup.

Yeah, a sippy cup. A soda sippy cup. A sippy cup for astronauts. I guess you also have to worry, too, about about like does it shoot out too fast right like are you pressurizing this to the point where it comes out faster than a bullet and then you accidentally blow your brains out from trying to take a sip of mr pib yeah they they just like sorted all that out and And also, this is 1984. During that decade of the 1980s, Coke and Pepsi hated each other so much. Like they remain rivals, but there was a cola war was the thing. It seemed like it's settled down now. Like it doesn't seem like tensions are high. It's yeah, it's there's an uneasy truce. But you're right. You're exactly. They're not like constantly taking shots at each other.

Yeah. It's a cold war now. An ice, an ice cold war. Cold and frosty and refreshing war. Cold, refreshing war on a hot summer day. Yeah. And some way, possibly industrial espionage. Pepsi heard about the Coke can that they were going to put on the space shuttle.

And so Pepsi built one too for Pepsi. And so then in 1985, a mission called STS-51F, NASA Space Shuttle Mission, brought both of these cans to the orbit of the Earth. And the astronauts were specifically encouraged to taste test the sodas in space and report back on which soda they liked better in space what about dr pibb would you like to take some dr pibb up there with you yeah i guess some of your third tier sodas probably couldn't afford nasa engineering right right and then like rc cola is like oh we gave some to men on a tugboat they enjoyed it they liked it yeah and uh apparently this kind of drinking soda is gross mainly because the shuttle did not have a

refrigerator and also neither dispenser worked that well. So according to NASA astronaut Roy Bridges, both sodas were drank at a fully hot temperature. Like it's a hot tea or hot coffee or something. Who doesn't love a hot syrup? Right. Yeah. Just like hot room temperature soda is f***ing awful.

Right. Yeah. Just like hot room temperature soda is awful. It is amazing how how how quick it goes from delicious and refreshing to the worst. I think the cold is doing a lot to distract us from the flavor of things like Coca-Cola and Pepsi. Sure. Yeah. I'm going to get I'm going to get blacklisted. I'm going to get put on a list. I know for saying this, but like I don't actually love the flavor of Coca-Cola or Pepsi. I didn't grow up with it. We didn't drink it like in our we drink different sodas. So I like when I drink when I'm like, this is definitely odd flavor. And I think the coldness of it, like one of the main refreshing selling points of it is cold.

Like you're tasting cold, which is good, cold and fizzy and sugary. And then when you take away the cold aspect, I think you are left overanalyzing the flavor, which in my opinion is actually not amazing other than the sugariness of it. Yeah. And both soda companies wanted the astronauts to say how good the drink is. And so when they said it's bad, the soda company said, we won't do this anymore. And NASA said, great, we don't want that either way. And so recycling your soda can is like the only way to get your soda can into space. They don't send regular ones up anymore. Yeah, I guess there was a time when like an astronaut endorsement meant a lot.

when like an astronaut endorsement meant a lot. I think astronauts were pretty, were up there as far as like our most trusted and beloved celebrities. So like you need to get that photo of that astronaut with your soda. It was a big deal. Yeah, they were on Wheaties. Yeah, right, right.

They were selling us ice cream. Like so many of us ate that horrible ice cream oh astronaut ice cream yeah that's right the uh classic museum gift shop uh purchase it's terrible uh it tastes tastes bad fiberglassy sort of fiberglassy raves katie golden sponsor and spokesperson astronaut ice cream is this is this asbestos that i'm tasting a hint of asbestos it's chocolate it goes chocolate vanilla strawberry asbestos you get three four flavors from the one one package why don't we line our teeth with asbestos? There we go.

So that when we eat ice cream, it doesn't feel too cold. Something we're learning on this episode, there's just a lot of great stuff we could be lining our teeth with. All right. BPAs, asbestos. Yeah, sure. Maybe a little caramel. A little caramel coating. Folks, we're going to take a little break to do some tooth defense brainstorming at our end.

And we'll be right back with more takeaways about the weird origins of modern soda kids. I'm Jesse Thorne. I just don't want to leave a mess. This week on Bullseye, Dan Aykroyd talks to me about the Blues Brothers, Ghostbusters, and his very detailed plans about how he'll spend his afterlife. I think I'm going to roam in a few places, yes. I'm going to manifest and roam. All that and more on the next Bullseye from MaximumFun.org and NPR. the next bullseye from MaximumFun.org and NPR.

Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. And we're back and we're back with a soda can. Takeaway number three. Soda cans are a recent invention and their tops were briefly a global menace. Turns out it took until the late 1970s to have soda cans with the kind of pop top that we know now. Instead of something like a pull tab that gets littered and is a litter menace or needing like your own sharp implement to open it.

And also just the cans are pretty new in general. Right. You need like a big bowie knife to stab it so you can enjoy your cold, refreshing root beer, as I understand it. Almost. Yeah. The tool was called a church key and it had two different sharp ends for making a big hole and a small hole. And the big hole was for drinking out of, and then the small hole was ventilation to make it pour faster. Oh, right. So, wait, what would happen if you only did one hole? Did it not work good?

It just poured a lot slower, and the logic is sort of like shotgunning a beer, where you make a second hole so it pours faster. I could totally see that being a, like, hipster foodie thing that comes back, right? Like having like some sort of microbrewery is going to do craft beers where you need the church key to open it and people will insist that it's better, but it would be kind of fun to like stab open your cans with one of those, with one of those little stabbers. I think that would be kind of neat. I would, I would, I would welcome that, that kind of hipster foodie affectation. People will be, you know, carrying around their old, their own church keys with them to bars. Right.

Right. Forging their own, perhaps. You're so right. Mining for the metals. Remember when we used to make things as a country? They would say that a lot. Yeah, because I feel like there's also a lot of throwbacks to the era of alcohol prohibition,

like speakeasies and stuff. And it turns out canned drinks are from immediately after prohibition ended in the 1930s. Oh, interesting. That was when we first started canning drinks. We started canning food in the 1800s, and canning could be a whole episode. But it took a lot longer to can beverages. to canned beverages. Was prohibition a factor in the shift to cans or was that just like, finally, we're back, baby. Let's start innovating here. We got to do cans.

Kind of both. It was a minor influence basically because what happens is U.S. states ratify the 21st Amendment and end prohibition at the end of 1933. They're like, it's the 1930s. Let's invent new beer receptacles. And they make beer cans. And then almost immediately, soda companies use that technology, too. They just pick it up from the beer brewers. And the first canned soda was something called Clicquot Club, which was a small Massachusetts soda made in 1938 in a can. What was it called? What's that name again?

Yeah. Thank you. C-L-I-Q-U-O-T Club. Huh. Clicquot is how I'm pronouncing it. I have no idea if that's right. Clicquot. Clicquot Club.

And then almost immediately after that, real sodas used it, like Coke and Pepsi and stuff. The thing I understand about old soda is they would like dirt, carbonated dirt. Like you'd have some kind of like plant, like we found this tuber and we're carbonating it and you drink it and it tastes like dirt. Is that more or less accurate or were sodas actually sweet, like sugary? Yeah. And if you're listening, hodgman cover your ears it lives on in moxie am i right that sort of stinks ah take that new england yeah i could see like early soda flavors being like gourd or root

yes right isn't like sarsaparilla just like a root? Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, I mean, root beer. People loved roots. They were like, how do I drink a root? Who doesn't like a root? for planes and war material. And so that actually kind of slowed down the progression. But then immediately after the war, canned soda becomes a huge thing forever after. And then it took multiple more decades to make good ways of opening the cans. Was there like a war planes to can shares sort of situation? Like were we melting, remelting down the war planes back into cans? of situation like where are we melting remelting down the warplanes back into cans and that would be a fun like marketing thing telling you what your can used to be um it's probably like no way to fact check it so they could just say like oh this used to be a battleship people be like oh

sweet yeah that would be cool maybe that would be a you know a thing for the extreme bros over at Liquid Death. This used to be a monster truck. Oh, cool. This used to be shrapnel. Oh, wow. Awesome. I love shrapnel. Yeah, and for a long time, canned drinks like soda were almost like a can of soup or something where there's no built-in opener and you need a tool.

Oh. No, there's not vegetables in it or whatever yet. From the 1930s all the way until the 60s, you needed a church key, and we'll have pictures linked of what it looked like to cut a big hole and then a small hole. to cut a big hole and then a small hole. And then in the early 1960s, a Dayton, Ohio tool company owner named Ermal C. Fraze, right? Oof, of course. Good old time name. He forgot his church key at a picnic and he said, oh, I wish there was a built-in opening system. And he came up with the very good, but also very bad system of a pull tab, And he came up with the very good but also very bad system of a pull tab, which is where one part of the top of the can can tear off if you pull a tab on it. But then you're holding a tab and an extremely sharp, tiny piece of metal. And most people littered them.

Right. And so then it hurt wildlife. It cut people's feet. Ah, yeah. And that happened for like more than a decade just all over the world. And that happened for like more than a decade, just all over the world. You could fashion sort of like iron knuckles with that, which would be really deadly, though. You put one of those on each of your fingers and it's got like sharp, pointy metal.

Yeah, pretty much. You fight a bunch of wolves, you know? Yeah. And also with the litter and with the human wounds, apparently people got encouraged to stick their pull tab back into the can, which is like a pretty good idea. But not all beverage drinkers waited until they were done drinking the can. Uh oh. And then they would just there's a 1974 New York Times story where they talk about people needing like emergency surgery all over the country because they drank the tab from the can in the hopes of doing something good. Were people like golden retrievers back in the day? Because this just is very sort of like dog coated behavior of like, ooh, a sharp object. I'll just save this for later.

Whoops, I drank it. Right. Like if it wasn't in the New York Times at the time, I would think it's made up. It's so stupid. Yeah. I mean, I could, I honestly, I could see me doing that. Like, do not give me the tools that I could accidentally use for my own destruction because it might, it might happen. And then we finally started to get good pop tops in the late 1970s. Apparently, a small brewery in Louisville, Kentucky, did what they call a stay tab rather than a pull tab, which is just what we have now pretty much. There's a rivet attaching the tab to the can top, and it works like a lever to just push down part of it.

lever to just push down part of it. And then the thing that really nationalized it was Coors Brewing and also a can maker there called Jeffco in Jefferson County, Colorado. Once they did that, all the other sodas and beers copied them. So that's how we finally got good soda cans, was Coors and these other people. It's not just that the tab stays on the can. When you push it down, there's part of the can that's like either thinner or something that like it pushes down easy because it's never like a random shape. It's always a perfect little U shape that's been pushed in. Yeah, they perforate that and then it works good. And then speaking of those cans, our main show has one very last mini takeaway number four. The candidates in the 1964 U.S. presidential election had custom soda brands.

It turns out Barry Goldwater and Lyndon Johnson each had their own canned soda in the campaign. Oh, my gosh. had their own canned soda in the campaign. Oh my gosh. Did they have like was Barry Goldwater's berry flavored and Lyndon Johnson's linden tree flavored? Those are both better ideas than what they did. I don't know why they didn't do that. I don't know that the linden tree idea is good.

I just assume that's a good fruit. I don't know. So Iinden tree idea is is good i just assume that's a good fruit i don't know so i trust you it's not we're we're dancing around this here but um alex you did include some images uh for me in our emailing about this episode the gold water soda is called gold water gold hyphen water it's ginger ale right but johnson's was called johnson juice yes correct and apparently it was lemon lime flavored according to this ad you've attached yep i mean bring back johnson juice right people would be buying this thing by the pallet at costco yeah johnson i johnson juice is it is one of those things where you know i i do

i mean right it's too good yeah it's too good it's too good it's too pure it's too good. It's too good. It's too good. It's too pure. It's too good. I do want a nice, like cold, refreshing can of Johnson juice. Wouldn't we all? That ad is from the Columbia University Library. I'm very excited to link it. And it turns out this was sparked by a supporter of Barry Goldwater, probably partly because they just noticed that the last name Goldwater could be a beverage. Like, sure. I guess because water is... No, but Johnson juice is so much better.

Yeah, it came second, even though it's way better. I'll say. Goldwater had a supporter named William Kane, a lawyer who unveiled Goldwater soda at a 1964 fundraiser. The New York Times describes it as ginger ale with an additional citrus flavor. And he partnered with the Royal Crown Soda Company to bottle and distribute this. Well, I should say can it. It was all in cans. But in the spring of 1964, they sold over 200,000 cases of Goldwater soda. I mean, I guess if you're going to do a Goldwater soda, making it sort of ginger ale makes sense because it's got that kind of golden hue. You're saying like for me, having water in the name of a soda makes me feel like I'm getting a lesser product because it feels less concentrated, like it's watered down soda. Yeah. Whereas I can't think of anything negative about the name Johnson Juice. That's perfect.

Yeah. No notes. Send it right to production. also the um is absolutely not the weirdest thing about the johnson juice but its slogan is a drink for health care um an objectively bad for you drink advertising health care there's also a it appears like a donkey on there which i assume is because of the political affiliation but it is it does just add to the mystique of what is this johnson juice made out of why is there a donkey it is it is yeah the cold water is clear and you can tell that it was the first one it's the clearest yeah you know it's the clearest premise and the johnson juice kind of

probably came after and was like trying to replicate it, but just doesn't does not fit as well and is therefore weirder and better. I think so. Just pop the top and get yourself some Johnson juice. Why not? Hold it in your mouth for hours at a time. Be careful not to shake the can too hard. That's right. Yeah.

Boy, look at a face full of Johnson juice. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants a face full of sticky Johnson juice. No. And my favorite part is that apparently both sodas remained on sale for a couple years after the election. Like, demand continued and they were both not made or created by the campaigns directly. This was supporters in both cases. So that Columbia University Library picture is an ad from a Chicago beverage distributor selling both sodas.

And the ad even has copy that is clearly pro-Goldwater and calls Johnson in favor of socialism and Big Brother and stuff. But also the distributor kept selling Johnson juice because it was profitable. Like they didn't care, you know, we don't like this. We hate it. We don't support this guy. We will, however, make money off his soda. Yeah, we will sell it to you. It's like I do love those.

It's like those stores now that have both like uh they have political merchandise they're completely uh chaotic neutral because they'll have like the the shirts like the you know lock locker up lock biden up shirts right next to the like lock trump up shirts right it's just it's just chaos it's a big like donut promo like Dunkin Donuts and Krispy Kreme will have a like stop in on election day and get a blue donut for Democrats or a red donut for me. So, yeah, you know, nothing, nothing new. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I listen.

I didn't vote for the guy. But Trump barbecue sauce is delicious. Is it? I don't know the guy, but Trump barbecue sauce is delicious. Is it? I don't know that there's a Trump barbecue sauce. It makes sense, doesn't it? I thought, Jordan, when you said I didn't vote for the guy, I thought you were going to say you didn't vote for Lyndon Johnson. I was going to be like, yeah, sure. Right.

I mean, probably. I was a Goldwater man. How old is he? Right. Jordan's so spry for 95. Because of all that, because of all that soda keeps you young. It kind of pickles you.

It pickles you. It preserves your organs. Yeah, exactly. The carbonation, the carbonation keeps you spry. Hey, folks, that's the main episode for this week. And I want to say an extra thank you to our wonderful guest, Jordan Morris, who is such a treat to have on. He was on previously, along with our buddy Jesse Thorne, for an episode about ducks. And I'm glad he's returned. I also recommend his graphic novel. Again,

that is called Youth Group. It is available for pre-order now. And if you're a listener to Jordan Jesse Go, I know they've been shouting out independent bookstores where you can order the graphic novel from. So that's a nice way to do it. Pre-orders are especially beneficial to authors. So if you go ahead and order it now, if you're interested at all, that's a great thing to do and you'll get it soon. So check out Youth Group. That's by Jordan Morris and artist Bowen McCurdy. We'll have a link for that on this episode's page.

And speaking of that page, welcome to the outro of this episode with fun features for you, such as help remembering this episode with a run back through the big takeaways. Takeaway number one, the dominant trend in modern soda marketing is just changing the size of the can and nothing else. Takeaway number two, soda cans are not just aluminum, and some of that aluminum becomes modern spacecraft. Takeaway number three, soda cans are a recent invention whose tops were briefly a global menace. And takeaway number four,

the candidates in the 1964 U.S. presidential election had custom canned soda brands. Also, lots of stats and numbers about the physics and strength of soda cans, the Pepsi and Coke cola war in space with space shuttle soda cans, and more. Those are the takeaways. Also, I said that's the main episode because there is more secretly incredibly fascinating stuff available to you right now if you support this show at MaximumFun.org. Members are the reason this podcast exists, so members get a bonus show every week where we explore one obviously incredibly fascinating story related to the main episode. This week's bonus topic is the bizarre nihilistic Coca-Cola project called OK Soda. Visit SIFPod.fun for that bonus show, for a library of more than 16 dozen other

secretly incredibly fascinating bonus shows, and a catalog of all sorts of MaxFun bonus shows. It is special audio. It is just for members. Thank you to everybody who backs this podcast operation. Additional fun things, check out our research sources on this episode's page at MaximumFun.org. Key sources this week include the book, The Things We Make, The Unknown History of Invention from Cathedrals to Soda Cans. That's by University of Illinois chemical engineering professor Bill Hammack. Also citing digital material by Chris Hamlet, a lecturer in chemistry and physics at Nottingham Trent University.

And so much digital material from Smithsonian Magazine, Popular Mechanics, Popular Science, Wired, the Discovery Channel, and more. That page also features resources such as native-land.ca. I'm using those to acknowledge that I recorded this in Lenapehoking, the traditional land of the Munsee Lenape people and the Wappinger people, as well as the Mohican people, Skadigok people, and others. Also, Katie taped this in the country of Italy. Jordan taped this on the traditional land of the Gabrielino-Wartongva and Keech and Chumash peoples. And I want to acknowledge that in my location, Jordan's location, and many other locations in the Americas and elsewhere, Native people are very much still here. That feels worth doing on each episode, and join the free SIFT Discord where we're sharing stories and resources about Native people and life.

There is a link in this episode's description to join the Discord. We're also talking about this episode on the Discord. And hey, would you like a tip on another episode? Because each week I'm finding you something randomly incredibly fascinating by running all the past episode numbers through a random number generator. This week's pick is episode 117. That's about the topic of raccoons. Fun fact, the United States distributes rabies vaccines inside raccoon treats dropped from airplanes. So I recommend that episode. I also recommend my co-host Katie Golden's weekly podcast, Creature Feature, about animals, science, and more. Our theme music is Unbroken Unshaven by the Budos Band.

Our show logo is by artist Burton Durand. Special thanks to Chris Souza for audio mastering on this episode. Special thanks to the Beacon Music Factory for taping support. Extra, extra special thanks go to our members. And thank you to all our listeners. I am thrilled to say we will be back next week with more Secretly Incredibly Fascinating. So how about that? Talk to you then. Maximum Fun A worker-owned network

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