Seeds And Their People - Ep. 12: Mrs. Pearlie Mae Jackson Trotter: a Jewel of the Mississippi Delta

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

This interview overflows with deep wisdom, rough experience and a heapin’ side of humor all in Ms. Pearl’s pecan smooth Mississippi cadence and style. It is uncharacteristically long for our conversations and we know you will be BLESSED by every minute! Ms. Pearl is a daughter of the delta and migrated north. She was born and raised in what would today be considered deep poverty in the then and now poorest state of the union in a time and place where slavery was dead in name only.  White supremacy and deep oppression of the working class was and remains a very real and present danger to peace, health, economic and spiritual progress in our beloved Mississippi. There will be some parts of Ms. Pearl’s personal life story that might be hard for some listeners to hear.  Also Ms. Pearl will be speaking from her deep life experiences, in her dialect and through her ways of knowing the world in which she matured.  Please listen as always with a beginner's mind and an open heart to her intense sharing. Due to strong language and vivid descriptions of racist violence, this may not be suitable listening for young children.   SEED STORIES TOLD IN THIS EPISODE: Speckled Brown Butter Bean Mississippi Purple Hull Pea Mississippi Silver Hull Crowder Pea Seven Top Turnips Florida Broadleaf Mustard Collard Greens Rutabagas Okra coffee Shamrock/Wood Sorrel May Apples   MORE INFO FROM THIS EPISODE: The Community Garden at Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram's Garden Emmett Till Legacy Foundation   ABOUT: Seeds And Their People is a radio show where we feature seed stories told by the people who truly love them. Hosted by Owen Taylor of Truelove Seeds and Chris Bolden-Newsome of Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden. trueloveseeds.com/blogs/satpradio   SUPPORT OUR PATREON! Become a monthly Patreon supporter! This will better allow us to take the time to record, edit, and share seed stories like these.   FIND OWEN HERE: Truelove Seeds Facebook  |  Tumblr  |  Instagram  |  Twitter   FIND CHRIS HERE: Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden   THANKS TO: Mrs. Pearl Trotter

A guard is a just guard. You don't do no more for salad than do for sale. And I believe that to today. That didn't bother me. I ain't hate nobody. I just wanted to do what I had to do. Because God raises all. He all give us a mouth and talk.

You can't tell me when they talk or how to talk. I have to learn. What's doing different than me? Your skin may be different, but you cut me open. We're all the same. And that was my attitude. I could care less about the color. It's just what it is.

That's just what it is. It's what it is. It was good. We had a good life. Because if I live it over, I live the same way with my mom and my dad and my sisters and my brothers. Real good. Real good. We was a family.

I was just whacking at normal. Welcome back to Welcome back to Seeds and their people. Oh, my goodness. I'm Chris Bolden-Nuson, Newsom, farmer and co-director of Sankofa Farm, at Barcham's Garden in sunny southwest Philadelphia. And I'm Owen Taylor, seedkeeper and farmer at True Love Seeds. We are a seed company offering culturally important seeds grown by farmers who are committed to

cultural preservation, food sovereignty, and sustainable agriculture. This podcast is supported by True Love Seeds and now also you. We are very grateful to the 30 of you who support our seedkeeping and storytelling work through our Patreon at patreon.com slash true love seeds. We're excited to welcome the following new patrons. The Freed Seed Federation, Justice, Julie,

Angela, and our dear, dear friend, Tara. And last but not least, poet and writer Tomiko Bayer. Tomiko wrote us this special note. I'm a huge fan of your podcast and work. I was giving y'all a shout out in my newsletter and asking folks to support, and I realized,

that I myself wasn't a patron yet, so I wanted to fix that. Thank you for all you do and for the stories you lift up, best, Tamiko. Thank you so much, Tamiko, and thank you to all our patrons, or our Patreon members, and all of our listeners. This episode features an interview with Miss Pearl Trotter. So some points about this wonderful interview. It's been a long time coming. Ms. Pearl is a close friend of our family. She is also a community gardener at Sancofa Community Farm,

which is how our relationship with her began. And also, she is another surrogate auntie for Owen and I and for our child who regularly gets his hair done at her house, and she keeps him looking fabulous with her granddaughter, who helps out with her amazing talents. This interview overflows with deep wisdom, with rough experience, and a heap inside of humor, all in Miss Pearl's, Becon Smooth, Mississippi Cadence, and style. I mean to say that the interview is uncharacteristically long for our conversations, and I know that you will be blessed by every minute. Ms. Pearl is a daughter of the Mississippi Delta, who has migrated north to the city of Philadelphia in Pennsylvania.

Ms. Pearl was born and raised in what would today be considered deep poverty, in the then and now poorest state of the Union, in a time and a place where slavery was dead in name only. White supremacy and the deep oppression of the working class was and remains a very real and present danger to peace, health, economic, and spiritual progress in my beloved Mississippi home. Now, there will be some parts of Ms. Pearl's personal life story that might be hard for some listeners to hear. Ms. Pearl will be speaking from her deep life experiences in her dialect and through her ways of knowing the world in which she matured, and all of this happened in her life. Please listen, as always, with a beginner's mind and an open heart to her intense sharing. A couple things. If you know our seed company and you know the brown speckled butter bean that we have in our catalog and that is also in Chris's hands in our logo, that seed comes. to us through Ms. Pearl's sister, through a connection she made, as you'll hear in this interview. Another context thing, in terms of timing, she talks in the interview about witnessing Emmett Till's

murder or lynching, and that happened in 1955. She also talks about when they got a new school called McEvons Negro High School, and that was built in 1958, so maybe these two dates can help ground you in the time period that we're talking about here. Also, this interview happened last February. We were there again with our child who was getting his hair done in a back room, and there's also a TV with a woman who lives with Miss Pearl watching it in the background. So, as we say in the interview, this is real life in a real house. We encourage everybody to make themselves at home as they sit around Ms. Purley's kitchen table with us listening to her, drop these jewels of wisdom and life experience.

All right, well, we're here with Ms. Pearlie-May Trotter, originally of Shawl, Mississippi, in the Delta, and we are here at her home in Philadelphia, in West Philadelphia, where she has lived for many years now. Sue, you can't talk to me. I'm on the TV. And we're at home. We're at our house.

So we got Ms. Pearlie here to talk to her a little bit about growing up in Mississippi. Both of us are from the Mississippi Delta area. She's from a different county. And very pleased to be here and get a little bit of the story of our own people's history right from the horse's mouth. they say. Come on, Chris. Why do you want to say to pump the horse's mouth? From my mom and dad's mouth,

they told us down on the plantation with the white man with the whip, and we're going to chop us down. I said, if you hit me, I'm going to chop you down today. Didn't it? What was that like? What was you?

So tell us a little bit about that story when you were young, and I know you've talked to me a lot of times about growing up, and growing up in Mississippi, certainly before, you know, the end of segregation, and it was a whole different world than what I would have seen. And my daddy talks to me about very similar stories. He was from Winneville. But I know that we all live pretty similar lives, you know, black folks in Mississippi in those times. But you've talked to me a lot about the white man on the horse,

which to me and my mind is overseer. But tell us about growing up and working with your family in the field. It was great. My dad would come and you speak to my father, and he'll say, you asked him what how you doing mr jackson he says the same old five and six and you know what he meant by that he picked us up at five and took us to work and we got off at six and we come back home saying on that tractor and trailer all up in the morning yeah five o'clock in the morning one kid had the bucket and nothing had this and nothing had that and we all sat on that wagon and we went to work and we sat there all day long from five to six and the white man out there with a horse and we stand up and don't take a break would you know working to somebody else's

We was on a plantation. We live in shacks. Popped up with sticks. Three rooms. For 12 people's. Three rooms. Twelve people. Okay. And the white man was on us real bad. Me, I was always in trouble. Always. They had to take me away from Mississippi because I was going to kill the white man. If he had to hit me, are you kidding me? Because his son liked him. That was the problem. Anything happened in Mississippi, they put on Pearly Jackson. Because I would get the white boys and go break in that machine. because they're going to say the black boy done it, and they would do it, and they would come to daddy's house to get me,

because they know I put him up to do it, and they sent him away. I did it. If I go home now, and he hear him in town, he's going to come to me, that white boy liked the man, and Jane Paul liked my girlfriend, the other brother. Another white one. Yeah. Yeah. And they was on us.

They put me in the line to buy me for $100 for the white men. I'm telling you, I had a rough life. Tell me this, I heard you say that before, and I never really wanted to know the details. But what was that? You said they put you on the line. Oh, Chris, the Jews always took the maze. That's why I so many mixed kids in the world today.

And I was a pretty girl. I was the pretty girl in the shop. They were you as white folks? What else? That was all down there. And they'd line all the pretty girls up. And I was number one to be bought for $100. My daddy, they wanted my daddy today.

But I pay $100 for me. I said, y'all don't know what? I got this. I wasn't worried about them. I had my protection in my pocket. I said, when they put their hands to me, I was going to cut them down. I was not scared of white people. I had my mom and dad them crying all the time, because they just know they're going to kill me. They don't kill me. God got me. He put me here for a reason. I am not scared of them white folks. And I meant they're going to have to kill me. Simple as that. Simple as that. And we would be on the bus coming from school. Coming from, not the white boys, we had no bus. We went to church. Everybody was in one room, only one school. The white man had it.

We didn't have no school. We had to go walk to church. And they had a school in the church? Yeah. All us, first grade, second grade, third grade, everybody was in the same room. And the white kids would be on the bus when we'd be walking home and they'd be spitting out of the wind and stuff at us. And I told them, you start.

I got in front of the bus. Now you stop this bus. Let them spit now. See who's going to get the blast spit? I wasn't scared of them. Kill me? 15, 12, 13? I can care my dad stayed in trouble.

because of me. I didn't take nothing from them. Nothing. I was not scared of them. We go to get some water. We couldn't even get water. Who said I had to wait till they get the water? I don't think so. I'll get right on in front of them. Push it right out the way. Well, you're talking about going to get water, what at the well? No, at the fountain, in the park and stuff like that right there was they. Couldn't even go to the bathrooms or nothing. You couldn't do anything down there. White folks were bad. You hear what I say? And I was not scared of them. I've never seen a white person in Shaw, Mississippi, but it was.

Are you kidding me? All the kids, they had a school, I'm telling you. They was on the bus. And we would be in the field, chopping cotton when they come through. And we are near our cooler. They were spinning the cooler. From the water you had to drink. Yes.

Yes. And that's why I didn't take nothing from them. I wasn't scared of them. And when they killed them in the tears, that was it. I said, they're going to kill me next. And dad said, you're going to have, we ran. We was in the class. And when they shot that, dragged that car off that road and took that boy and hung him in that tree.

We was running in Holland. But what could we do? What could we do? They were killed us. You know what I mean? Sad. I can see it right now. I'm hanging in that tree.

So he whistled at the white girl. And he didn't. But white... Did you know anybody who was associated with him? They was down in money. I just told you the plantation I lived on. All them dirty white people. What was a plantation at?

In Mississippi. Well, I know in Mississippi. but what town? You remember where you were? Shaw, Shaw, Mississippi, on the map. Okay, and I was, and our classmates, my mother, I mean, their mother and father was a politician, and they would get things together for black people

to vote against the white men. And don't you know they went there and killed that girl's mother and father? And we were sitting up in our classroom looking at across the railroad track. This was in Shaw. Shaw, Mississippi. Shaw, Mississippi, honey, right on Highway 61. Highway 61.

So it was a classmate of yours, his parents? Yeah, we've, you know, the school owned by a black man. You know, the black man from Chicago bought this. McEvin, that was a black man. Him and his son, Mac Even High. Oh, yeah.

Okay. Now they're bed and a ball. That's the high school that's there now. Still, they got a nice high school. That's the white man in high school. That school ain't nothing. We was at. We was right at the railroad track,

a little flat something like a house. So when, when was you going to school, in the church house, in the one-room schoolhouse, and then when did they build a building for the... Oh, we're like 7th grade. We went through all our... Like my brother-in-them, yeah, my brother-in-them,

and they didn't get in no good school in nothing that we did. To MacGevins came from Chicago. The father, the mother, and the son came and built the Mac-Evon. The one on the highway, 619, they built that there. And that's the only one we got. And the white folks is on the other side of the town. Yeah, I've only seen that high school, that nice one.

That's the only one. Mack Evans put that there. It is. That's the black people's nice. Now, now, yeah. Ain't no white folks there. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's what, yeah.

Ain't no cheering there two or three, two or three. And I said, ain't that something just to look back over my life and say, we couldn't even want to allow it over there. And now it's all black. It's no white people's there. Well, and when they left, and this is the problem in the whole Delta, white folks did a mass exodus out of the Delta. They all went down South Haven and all these other places. Right. But they took their money with it.

You know, in my hometown, Greenville, the same thing. We only made $3 a day, and they took three cents out of that $3. And when my mother and father retired, they didn't have one dime. They couldn't even find them on the record. We had to take care of our mother and father. They never got a dime, not a dime. And my mother and father never taught a hate against wifey. My dad loved his boss.

If you say Jimmy Robin, come here, break his neck, getting up running out of that door to meet him. to meet him, to greet him at the door. And he was always come and telling Dad that's something I'd done. And one day I told Dad, I told my mother, I said, Dad, come here and believe me what the white man say, I'm running away.

I bet he didn't mess with me. Because I was going to the next day and get the dog. When he got Joe, Joe came home. They sent him away to keep him away from me. And he came back, and he was going to come and get me that night. We was going to get him. That was the man's son. Jimmy Robinson's son.

His name was Jimmy Robinson. Yeah. And he was named Joe. Yeah. He was after me. boyfriend good boy oh that's why they didn't like me oh you kidding me that was my man man because I just did it for the devil I ain't want the white boy I don't want that white boy I played him real good and they sent him and when I graduated from high school you know black people had to go in the back door

is that my phone oh shit I'm putting it move it over there and put it over there listen what I was telling you You were with the white boys from the devil. When I graduated from high school, what did you think I got done? I got dressed up that day and went knocked on the front door. Their front door of their house and get them an invitation. What do you think they bought me? A pearl necklace. Somebody stole.

My nephew and them stole in California and sold it. See, I wasn't scared of them. I didn't take them from the white folks. I made them like me. I said, your son after me, I ain't after him. Because y'all don't like me, that's why I'm going to like him. Simply that. And they were going to kill me.

to give me a woman when I was 16 years old. Are you kidding me? That's how I got to California. The wife was out to get me because I didn't back up from them. Kill me. Y'all kill them in the kids. You can kill me too. But you're going to remember me though. I meant that. I was not scared of him. And it was sad, but I was not. I'm sorry. I did not like them and I still don't like it. When I go home, they all recognize me. They remember the Pearly Jackson. They didn't forget the Pearly Jackson, okay? I was a known chicken Mississippi. Today, the few of them stoles and stuff we used to go in, and they would follow me. I said, why are you following me?

Because I'm black. Anything in the store I want, I'm going to get it. You're going to tell the police? Huh? I'm not going to run. I'm going to stand right here until he come. And they were going to get, I'm serious that anybody can tell you. You go to the Mississippi and listen to ask by Pearl and John, see what they say.

And the poor daddy, daddy stuttered when he talked. He said, gal, I don't know what I'm going to do with you. I said, Daddy love me. That's all you got to do. Because God got my back. I ain't scared of them white folks. They're going to have to kill me. Simple as that.

Simple as that. I was not afraid of the white man. And when the elder oppressor came out and I said, what they would say to me? The girl even named her son because I was so crazy by Elipa's house. I made them take him to the other president's house. But he was never there. They wanted me. You went to Graceland?

Sure. Sure. I was scared of them. You have to just do what you have to do. God put us on this earth. He didn't say you can't go here and you can't go. Who tell you to tell me what I can't do? Well, you know, Elvis has to have had it, even though he was raised and fed by black folks.

Yeah. We know he wasn't going to let me in, but we went. We went to crew with the crew that I hung with. We went. Joe was with me, the white boy was with me. Anything I told him and do, we would do. He would do anything to be with me. The white boy liked him.

Yes, he did. And I felt sorry for him because his dad and him sent him away. And when he got back where you think he comes on that horse to pick Pearl up, take her out. On a horse. We rode the horse and everything. I was a class bitch. I didn't know. I'm telling you.

I had a good life with. I love when I, oh, anything they've done to me, I just didn't take it. Y'all can't do that to me. I'm a pretty girl. Don't y'all check me out. Y'all jealous?

Shit, don't try me. They thought that was crazy. Dad said, dad, I'm going to get you away from here because they're going to kill you. They ain't going to kill me, Dad. Because I speak up for myself. And when I just called my mom, She worked for these white people.

And, you know, she said a deal. When I asked to speak to Mrs. Jackson, she said, well, that's one of your daughter. That's your daughter from the city. You're damn right. Who are you, Kathy? I didn't call her no miss. I said, Kathy, could I please speak to Mrs. Jackson? And she went told my mother, well, your daughter from the city is on the phone.

Damn right. You, Kathy, my mother's missis. Don't get a twisted. When I went there, I worked in the garden. She had to respect my mother. And I meant that. I meant that. And I went there and told her.

My mother's name Mrs. Jackson, she owns us to be your mother. She got to call you missing, yes, ma'am, no ma'am, you're going to do likewise to her. You're going to hear from me. I meant that. And I bet you she respect my mom. And Deal taught us, it was rough. And when you work from their house, my mother said, yeah, don't you all. What did say?

Deal wouldn't allow us to go in their house. But if people's worth that, Mama, Deer Rose. And they would put a quarter, Time X Watch, and a dollar down. And when you leave, they would ask you. back. What you think I done when I came here when I started working in white folks house? I said, you're going to give me your rules and I'm going to give you my rules. My rules are I don't get on no knees and when I get ready to leave your house don't you dare ask me did I see this quarter of this dollar at a time X watch.

Now you give me your and I ain't scrubbing no walls. I ain't white. I'm no one to wash you and I'm not a maid. I'm not shining no dishes, no silverware and I didn't. I didn't do none of that. I'm here for these four hours and you give me my money and I'm leaving. A maid stay all day And I didn't stay all day One lady Introduced me to the whole family I was working for a whole family

12 people I said the lady didn't give me no job I got my own job Because I did my job And you're gonna pay me what I want Now So that's huge time Let's hear when you moved out Mississippi

The same way down south They were just as bad That's why I know about the quarters And the dollars Right They're putting up there And to see if you detest you Right right

Right and you go to the back door To buy butter The butter was 50 cents. They're going to look to... To the back door, say, to buy it. You couldn't go in the front door? Yeah. I went in the front door.

Yeah. I didn't go in the back door. Who are you? I got to go in your back door to buy. I don't serve there and churn that butt, and you're going to make me go to the back door to buy? Hell, to the nose. No, I didn't do it, gris.

I'm sorry. I did not take nothing. And for no white people, I just couldn't stand in them. Who you think of you? I'm a pretty woman. You better check me out. I talk just like that back in the day. I was a bad bitch.

I ain't lying. I was bad. I think about that right now. All the changes that I took with those white people in that South. One day, Jim and Robin was running me off the road. I told you about that. Not even running me off. I was in the cornfield.

I had brought the man's car to go get corn to take the school for the teacher. And he saw me. I said, oh, Lord, he hit his man. He's going to come down here and I'm in this cornfield by myself. I say, if he messed with me, I'm going to run him off of this road. You was in a car? I was driving. I had already said what I was going to do.

And I knew I was going to do what you think I'd done. Turn the bitch over in the ditch. I did not get out the road. Because he accused me of doing something he was wrong. I was coming to get the corn to bring home for my mom to cook for dinner. And he was going to say I was getting it for Mr. Peter Sharp across the street. That you were stealing. Yeah, yeah.

And he went told Dad. That's when I told my mother's dad to come home to be with this white man. I'm leaving. I'm done. I'm done fighting with the white folks because I ain't scattered them. I bet you ain't say nothing to me. You mentioned Emmett Till. Was y'all around the same age?

Do you remember what age you were Emmett Till? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how old he would be today. I don't know. But I remember all that. Are you kidding me? How we was right down at that school, the little shack school on the highway, the train.

They took all the trains and stuff away now. There's no trains there. Yeah, no. I can see myself sitting right here with my hands looking at the one that the train go by. So sad because of the way we was living. Nothing on the train but the white folks. We couldn't afford to go nowhere. My mom and dad couldn't go nowhere.

And we had to go out there and work in that house on that field all day long. He's standing on that horse with a wheel. And we'd take a break in the, that man driving the plane. You know, like they're pausing, you know, that people are sick. But listen to me, the white boy, why would you, all us right there? He starts praying. Yeah. Yeah, he would go down and come up.

But one day God got him. The day he went down and went up, he didn't come down. He come down hanging in the tree. This is true, sir. The yellow, yellow plane, yes. Oh, we all had them holes, and we were swinging. I had everybody running with the holes. We're going to get him.

Let him come down. Let him come down. They got down low enough. You can't get him with a hole. You're damn right. But the plane, we wasn't going to get the plane, because the plane were to kill to him. But we had him so scared.

He was so upset that he didn't know where the hell he was going. Ran right in that tree and killed himself. They found parts everywhere. You're damn right. The white boy was going to kill him up. And they were spraying while they saw y'all. It was a Bo Weaver. They were there to kill the Bo Weavers, not the peoples.

I'm telling you, it was bad. And we would have to, Chris, we used to be running, jumping in the ditches, and the snake would be running us out the water because they're in the water. We're trying to get away from him. From the crop duster. Yes, yes. You know, that's that stuff killed a lot of people's today. They're talking about that stuff today.

You know, they still, in Greenville right now, over my parents' house, they still fried them brightly colored planes and crop dusters. But you spoke, they tell you, you're supposed to put a flag. My mom and daddy got a flag that you're supposed to put up to tear, so the pile of the seat and will steer clear your house that he won't spray your house. She said she said they spray it end up spraying anyway. So all that dust, all them chemicals fall down. What y'all work in the fields, getting back to when you all were working when you were young, do you, what were some of the crops that y'all worked? You say y'all would work on a plantation for a white man.

Tonal greens, everything, string beans, everything. Oh, sweet potatoes, peanuts, all that stuff. all squashes and all that stuff. We raised all that. We had to go out there chopping all there, and I need. We had to go out and gather all those peas and stuff for them and sit there and shell them for them.

We had to shell them too. Sit down on the back porch, mosquitoes eating us up, and my mom and them in there, boiling the jaws and stuff to put it in, to put it in the, what you call them, rooms? You know, like the old people,

they had the room where they had everything with the door closed. Yeah, like the cellar. Yeah, yeah. But it wasn't a cellar. That was just the wall, yeah. Yeah, all that. We did all that. What I say, and take them tomatoes and put them in their hot water to get the skin off of them.

So y'all priced, y'all, y'all canned all the food and stuff for them? We did everything, everything. And then what happened? You sold, you gave it, you gave it to the folks that are the owner of the plantation. Wasn't they paid y'all? No, it was they stuff. We was working for them. Dad was working for them. We had to do what our dad and them done. What did he tell us to do. So was it a division between the girls' work and the men's work, or everybody did the same thing?

Everybody did the same thing. They didn't care. All they wanted done, and they done it. My mom, and we had to help our mom. You know, she was working for them, and we had to get all this stuff together for them, for her to be able to make the stuff, just like when they kill hogs. We had the dad had a bench, and each one had a job and a knife to cut and do I hate. That's why I hate ham sauces and stuff today. I don't eat that.

I grind so much of meat for the white folks, for the white folks. We didn't have nothing. We ain't had no money to buy this stuff. If they get us a little bit, that's what we had. The mom had to have, that's all. Even same with the garden. Whatever they give us that they didn't want, that's what we had. And my mom would take it and can it, and that's what we're done.

Everything. She did everything. We did everything for them. And they treated us like we was nothing. Nothing. You had to go to the back door to take the food in the house. Yeah, and my mom. But I said he was crazy, though.

We could have did anything to that food and stuff. Oh, could have. That's what I never understood. Don't think I didn't. You think I didn't? My auntie told me all the time about spitting in their food and that sort of stuff. They tried to do it to us.

They weren't going to do it to me and I'm going to do it to them. My sister, Kate, Kate, we would go out to eat and the two men of white people. Kate wouldn't even go in there. She hated white people. She hated them.

She really did. But I was active with mine. Kate wasn't. Kate stayed back. But she hated them. And she always would cry for me because she thought they were going to kill. They don't kill me good.

I got them. I got the white folks. Y'all had to speak up for yourself. They ain't control. There ain't nothing we can do about that. They got the money, and black people didn't stick together. They really had to stuck together. We could have beat them.

My Lord. Because they weren't going to go on no field and chop no cotton. They weren't going to do no gather, no greens and stuff. They weren't going to do nothing. Black people can do. They will talk about you if you've done it. And I'd feel sorry for them because it was their fault. Why are you scared of the white men?

That's a woman, just like you, she put her drawers on the same way you put yours on. Now, why are you scared of her? I was not scared of him, Chris. I'm sorry. And I tell Dad, oh God, when the white man come to that house and blow his horn, Daddy had like a little fly. He would jump up. I said, Daddy, why are you jumping up and running out this door like that? One day he fell. The pig came out. Dad was going to go.

I was already mad with him because he won't let me go to town with him and Mama. And why Jimmy Robertson came there and called for Daddy, Daddy broke his neck, getting out of that door and fell down. And I laughed so Chris, Dad told me up. But I laughed, I laughed, I laughed. I say, serve you right, Daddy. Because you were going to die. Daddy, beat my butt so good.

They were crying for me. I wasn't scared of no whooping. Shit, don't hurt the long you get it. You got to go right back and doing what I was doing when he leaves. You had to leave. Yeah, Dad, they got mine's in California. Put me on that bus at 16 years old with my grandmother. Oh, you was that young when you left?

You're done right. You're done right. Yeah. Don't white folks going to get me, Chris. you think they wouldn't but I was not I didn't back up for them and when after about seven years I didn't go back home the seven years after I was out there

and I would make sure I would go to these five and dime so I bet they recognized me then yes they did they didn't forget me they knew who I was and they were I said oh now y'all talking to oh yeah you are so pretty they said oh you just noticed it I had them I had them

Chris so you said something you mentioned and I'm curious about this You said that it was, the white folks was just mean. I mean, they had power, and they still have power, and they used it on us, all the time. My dad and them. The younger people didn't take as much our parents did.

You get it, you understand? So we had to do what our parents tell us to do. We didn't have to. Like the big bulls, if the white man get mad with us and we're in the field, they would turn them big bulls or lose, and we have to run and try to get up under the house. They would put bulls on? Yeah.

My mom would say, run, children, run. That's all, that's all I know. Like a game. Yeah. And then they had like where you go down in the ground. You know, my back door where you open that door and go out, we had to have a place like that. We had to run down in and get away from them big bulls and stuff, running us.

I'm telling you, I live this, okay? They turn bulls and y'all. Yes, because white, that Jimmy Robertson there and that Dan Sullivan? Then was something, oh, they were so, Jimmy Robertson and Dan Selling. They hated, they hated black people. They had this castle was so big, boy, please. The old bitch

and they had a toilet, gold toilet sit on. Because, see, my mama worked and I was in there. Didn't she? You should have seen this castle. And in the country, the house was pretty. You know what I mean?

The first year, oh, man, please. And you're going to take something from there? You mentioned that the black folks didn't stick together, and if we stuck together, then things would have been different. Say some more about that.

What happened? What happened when they did try to stick together? You talked about your classmate whose parents was involved in the movement and was trying to register people to vote. They killed the girl's mother and father. Do you think that helped to keep black folks from getting together? Hakes, no, they was already like that and they stayed like that. They didn't get together. They didn't be young people's.

No, but I mean, do you think that seeing somebody who was trying to organize or seeing them, seeing that couple get killed, that that might have discouraged black folks from trying to do anything for trying to unite together? Black people had a hard time trying to get it together. The people did not want to work with them. That's what happened. And then what made it so bad that we had to back up because a lot of black kids were getting killed when they come from college.

And it to be it and all like that. Yeah, do you know that's when my parents went? My nephew never got killed. Yes. They went to Valley? Yeah, all of them down there. Dooms and everybody. But they were six boys in a car.

And my nephew was in that car. And they ran those boys off that road and they all got killed. They still doing it. They still ain't never stopped doing it. Not only them, the college kids and the parents that got so bad that you start renting a bus for the kids to come home. So they were kidding up so many young people.

It was terrible. But I'm telling you, Chris, it was bad. And it's still bad. It's not good down there now. You think it is? No, I know. But when I go home now, especially than driving past your town, and I see that the way that the white folks are, I guess,

you know, the way they're asking. exercising their power now is that they took all that money out of Mississippi. They took, you know, I mean, you go down in Greenville, downtown Greenville looks, you know, I mean, it's, it looks a mess, yeah, compared to what it would have been, you know. And I know that our part of the state was known, the Delta particularly was known for black people being a little bit more progressive, black folks actually doing. So you talk about your classmates, organizing, you know, classmates' parents organizing to get out the vote. Like Fannie Lou Hamer came from our part of the state, you know, people, you know, so. So the Delta was known as a place that black folks was a little bit more with it, a little bit, you know, that we had a little more fighting us than opposed to southern Mississippi or something.

I don't know anything about any other part of Mississippi, but that area, yeah. I love that all the time, and white folks used to do us. Why? Why would they do my mom and daddy like that? That's what I think about. How they treated the poor dad out there, her son all day long. For $3 and they wouldn't even put a penny in. It took three cents out that $3.

So that mean they got three cents out of... And they didn't get no Social Security. Well, they were born before Social Security, but they... They was not born for no social... Oh, yeah, they was born, but they lived. But they lived during it. Yeah. And they took it from them.

That's why Dad had never got enough money to even buy land and stuff. He couldn't buy nothing. With all those kids, had 12 kids. It was 12 of us. There was 12 of y'all. Yeah. Living in three rooms. Shot one house.

Parked over six. It was three. Me, Kate, and Duck, we all slept together. I was the shortest one, the smallest one. I was always in the milk. And it was so bad when it snow, my mother thought we was all dead. They didn't see nothing but snow.

That's not funny shit. They come through the house? Are you kidding me? Snow come through any crack. Them shacks, we were living in, Chris. You hear me? And my mom then had to take us and put us in hot water and stuff to try to. We was okay because our body was warm.

It was three to a bed. Okay, and my brother them, they slept on the floor. no bed for them. Just the girls. And my mom and dad and them slept in the front room with the two littleers and with the couch. We did have a couch, never had a living room, nothing.

Nothing. Nothing. We didn't know what that was. But it was all good. We was a family. We got up together. We worked together. We ate together.

Went to bed together and got up together. That was what you call real love. Money couldn't buy what we had. Because we were very poor. We didn't even have a spoon to eat with it for. We had to eat with our fingers. Yeah. You know that food tastes better with their fame, them greens and stuff like that.

I always tell Owen about the story that my grandma was from Shelby, I believe, and they all ate with their hands, you know. Like what we did in Africa. We ate without hands. That's how we, you know. And they, yeah, you take a piece of bread or you take a piece of cornbread and you stop it up and you eat everything with your bread. And my mom didn't even have a safe. She's brown sugar and make her search to pour on our pancakes. Yeah.

I heard of that. Take that ballon and make that grave with some rice. Yummy, yummy, yummy. Yeah, remember that? We were very, very poor. Yeah. We raised everything. We had everything good.

What do you remember eating? What was the foods, the foods that y'all would have eaten? No, what would we eat? Well, I know, but tell them, they know. Chicken and pig. Yon-on-on-on-on. My dad would be to kill a hole. We had the big black pot.

Daddy would make them, blackbirds. Oh, he's blackbirds. Yes. My brother used to shoot the blackbirds down. My grandmother used to catch them, yes. And put them on the coals outside, where they had to pot it with the corn. You know, the white man would let us pick up the corn. And my dad would make and take the ashes from the cottonwood tree.

Okay. And put in the sack and put it in the water so the corn would huss. Oh, okay. You get it? Yeah. And then we had to wash it down, take all that huss out in, and put it back into another pot and do it over again. Right.

All day. I don't know why we don't have no pictures with all this, so we could get a lot of money for that. We had just had a camera. Dad would make the battle. Daddy would make the pallor. How you said the pallas? The sturd of stuff.

The paddle? Yeah. He made them out of wood. He would go in cottonwood tree. He would cut them in. Yeah, that's soft wood. Cotton wood. And say he would burn the cotton wood.

That was the ashes that he used. Yes. That's the only one. The only tree. That was the only tree that we had to go out and cut that wood. We could cut much as dad and shit. And we had to carry it. Believe me, cottonwood tree was a tree.

Yeah, we raised the only chick. on the flattening floor and the hogs too. That's all we had to eat. And the cow, they would sell Dad a cow. Oh, really? We raised our own cow. That's a lot of meat. How y'all put that meat up? Oh, man, we had a big house. You had a smoke house? Yeah. See, my uncle built in Memphis.

Okay. And he would bring Daddy all this stuff to cure this food and stuff. How people used to steal our stuff. Daddy, when we were talking about it had food, that's one that everybody came to Jackson. Because Uncle would get Daddy everything to cure the food and stuff with. And we would kill hog on top of hog, dad, and him. Oh, that was our job, you know, one of the time.

My brother, during the night. That was for the folks you worked for. Y'all would kill them hog. Hey, no, for us. They would buy it from us. Oh, so you raised, so y'all had. Yeah, we were dad and dad. That's the only way daddy could have.

Like, how do you think he had a cow? They'd get in the cow because he had to do his cow and kill his cow and cleaning. We had to do all that, putting that stuff together. Wow. Just like with the gardens, all that stuff. They give it to Daddy because we. We had to do theirs. Mm-hmm.

And my mom had us up all night long, shelling peas, and they're canning them, and my grandmother's name, because we all live right to three houses, the three shacks, right there together. Yeah. What kind of vegetables that y'all eat? All kinds. You name it, tomatoes, cucumbers, and string beans. I didn't know what a cooked string bean were.

Because we always ate them raw. Really? Yes. Yes. It was so sweet and good. Daddy, I got men and women about eating more than I put in the pot. Chris, they were so good same way with the cow

When I mixed that cow I ate up all that in bubbles because that was the butter Daddy would tear me up Yeah, daddy would tear me up by that too I was mad anyway with the cow

whooping you in your face with the tail for the white folks and we are there and then hot sun doing all this for them but we had to help our mom you know what I mean

because we had to live that's the only way we could do and they had 12 kids to do all this work and we did it every day not one day every day

Go and shake the tree, get the apples for my mama to make apple sauce, the figs, all that stuff. We did all that, all natural stuff, everything. Did y'all eat musketine? Yes, and that's that green on the ground. The grape, the big fat grape. Oh, yeah, but that's what that green called. My brother used to walk in his sleep and have, like, sleep, and we had to go out of my mom, pick there to cook it for him. Oh, you know what I'm talking about?

Polk salad? No, you know pork salad. What the name of it? They sell it down at 9th Street now. And it was hard to get back in the day. And that rabbit grass, my mom used to make tea. I never known what you called rabbit grass here. I don't know what one was.

It was sweet light. It's sweet and sob. We used to tear that up. It's a different out of the rabbit grass. Oh, rabbit grass. You know what a rabbit grass is. Yeah, okay. You're talking of shamrocks.

Yeah, yes, ma'am. What do you all call it? Well, the white folks, the Irish call them shamrock. They call her rabbit food. We need to go and pick it for them. Yeah, rabbit grass. That's what they gave your brother when you were sleepwalking? Yeah.

I'm talking about Oxalis? Yes. Mm-hmm. Wood so on. What is it? Wood sorrel or oxalis. Or Shamrock. Oshamrock?

Well, that's the style that had everything good down there. That was pure dirt. We used to eat that too. I love to eat that. Wait a man, boy, we would get on the towel of the car and take our finger to eating daddy with tails up. That was the best dirt. And my aunt, every time she got pregnant, it's all she ate with them freaking dirt. Yeah.

And they've rid all her teeth from eating that dirt. Really? Yes, yes. Because, you know, that was the black dirt. Right. Where we're from down in the hills with the red dirt. Right. Okay.

What did you have down there that you can't find up here? What kind of food? Everything. You remember them a little, every time. Ain't nothing good. Like even, what is that thing called? It's yellow like a lemon, but it's not a limmer. And it was good for like if you had a rash or something,

had them little white seeds in it. And my mother used to fight to get that. And then when we get it, the white folks would take it, they wouldn't give it to us. But we had to go out and pick it. Well, white seeds. Yes. On a treat?

Mm-mm, grew on the ground. And it only come out a certain time a year. It would look just like a lemon, but it wasn't a lint. The skin was smooth. Smooth, very smooth, very good. It was very good. It didn't get bigger than an egg. It couldn't be passionate by it.

No. Sounds like May apple. May. Oh. Do they have that down there? Yeah, we do. They got a May Pop. May Apple.

May Apple. How big word? The skin is smooth, yellow? Not sure. I don't know. We have to look it up. We looked it up and it is indeed a May Apple. I showed Miss Pearl a picture when I ran into her last week.

And she said, May Apple, it is. And a heads up. The next one we're going to talk about the naked lady is an Amarillis Bella Donna. But they was really good for you. Because a lot of it. They was good for you, good for your help. Yeah, a lot of this stuff, you know, the names that we call it in the South, they call it something different in different places.

You do everything with the flowers and stuff, like that naked lady. They don't call that no naked lady. Now, which one of the naked lady? Chris. Oh, you know. You're talking about the crepe murder. I ain't talking about no crepe murder. Listen, it grew real tall.

Yeah. And the leaves would be on and it fall off. And the only thing would be able to fly up there, and my mother said, look at that gas. She's fresh. Yeah. And that's what they're. That's what they call it. That's what they call. I'm telling you. And when I see them and now, I say, oh, that's that flower was naked lady. That lady said, what you say? I said, that was naked lady back in the day. So did y'all, y'all eat turn of greens? Y'all eat mustard greens. Like what other kind of greens did y'all eat? What the other thing? I hate them today. The big one. Rudy Baker. Oh, you know. My mother was fried

that fat back and put that in there and cook it. It was so good back then. I came standing there. Really? Yes. That's what I was lunch every day when we went to the field. Rule the bag. Rood the bakers. That bacon in and, you know, comes first bacon and stuff like, yeah. And she'd make her own cornbread and every time. And we sit around like little kids, sit around on the sacks and eat in the field. We couldn't even come home.

We'd go leave at five and come back at six. Ain't that something? But that was a good life. We was a family. And it's thanks to you that we have the butter bean now, the speckle brown. Oh, man, that's the best being in the world. I can't believe. i cannot believe them beans was so good back in the day they was and they had that good thick gravy

to them yes they do yes don't need to put nothing in them make it on great no i don't have to put nothing them baby just eat them yeah yeah you remember that we got the butter bean through you right when you get in contact with your sister yeah mm-hmm because yeah what they call butter bean up here is something different that's a big old white lima bean that's a lime of bean they're smooth they're clear yeah they don't taste good they're nothing like that speckle bean right and they're black eyed peas the green black eyed peas we had them too the crowd of peas I ain't said about no crowds I said black eyed they was called black eyed oh it's the same thing I didn't know that we call them black eyed peat they're across with each other

oh really crowd of peas the purple oil purple oil yeah mm-hmm all that was very good very good was a winner it was a black thing yeah that's why chicken so hot a noun because the white folks didn't eat it then we did you know to see how I had them got now a chicken wing I wouldn't pay 10 cents for a chicken wine today. Big old fat. We don't shot them up because we raised all our chickens. Right. And eggs and stuff.

Right. When they're into eggs and stuff. My mother had seven crates at this white woman's yard. And every chicken of what crate they're supposed to be. And they were going in their crate. And they were going on their own crates. If they went in, she'll holl out and they'll jump out and go back to the tree. I'm telling you what God loved.

The truth deal with something with the guard. I'm telling that's a good life. Anybody missed that? They missed it all. They see that right now. And Dea said, gal, come and let me show you something. Gail, watch them how they're going to go in. They listen.

Them gals, listen to me. I said, okay, how do you know these gals, dear? Well, they're all kidding. Yeah, well, yeah. Shoot, the big old hogs is to come in the house. In the house. Big old fat hogs on the fat and float. And when they know for their dad, if they're killing,

and the white folks will be lying up trying to get their meat. What they call that meat now? the one you make the sashes out of. Tint the line. The timel line. They got all dad's ten to line. I said he'd put them first. I would be mad.

I would take it in high and he would tear me up because I know they're coming to get it. I said, no, we're putting them white folk for us. We're supposed to have what we want first. But he didn't care. He just loved white people. They never taught hate. And the way the white people treated them.

Yeah. That's sad. That's what I think about that. That is a part of being a black Mississippi being that I've nearly never, my parents also never taught us to hate white people. I remember even when little, they wouldn't even mention white people by name. They would say W people or they would use a cold word so we wouldn't be out in the street holling white folks, white folks.

You know, I remember them did not, never taught us. And I don't understand why it with all that they went through. But I want to understand what I'm saying. And the white folks like the fruit and stuff, you get all fruit free. But we had to pick theirs first and do that first. So we get what left old, what they didn't want. I had a problem with that. Why do you think we didn't teach our children to hate?

And obviously white folks taught their children to look down on us and to hate us. I mean, especially in Mississippi. They are white folks and we black. They didn't respect us. Nothing else. Nothing else. They never told us a hate word about white folks. That's why they would tap me up.

I ain't care. Whoop me? I don't like them. They don't like me. Look how they treat you, dad. You out there and their husband all day long for $3. And they give you $2.97. No, he didn't care.

That's all right. That's all right. It's going to be better. No, it ain't. Because y'all ain't going to let it be no better. Because y'all ain't doing nothing about it. Y'all got to speak up. And you know all those men are all dead now.

All them in the South that I've raised up with. They're not a one here there. Because they work hard in that field. It didn't take care of themselves for the white man. Sad. They never went to doctors, never got teeth done, nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

But we see, but Daddy with Uncle. Uncle stayed on Daddy. And he had to go and take care of himself because his brother. Why did y'all never move to Memphis? Daddy loved Jim and Robb, them white folks. He would not leave them white folks. Uncle tried his best to get Dad away from that. And we all could have went to college, been smart, and had everything.

Here, Ms. Pearl talks about a brother of hers who dated a white woman and had a child with her and how he was nearly murdered for it by the woman's father. But in the end, the brother and his child were accepted. as well as a woman into Ms. Pearl's family. Everybody ain't hateful. It's just so many people are hateful. This is what I'm what I'm hearing. Now for me, I'm from, you know, because we're from Mississippi, I think it's harder for people. Since I've been in the North, it's harder for people to understand how, you know, how complicated our relationship with white people is in the

South. You can talk out of one mouth about hating them and them and them killing us and and all of that stuff. And at the same time, you know, we was having love affairs. Yeah. You dated a white boy. You know, your brother dated a white girl. That sort of, I don't think people in the north, the people outside of the South can understand how can we live together?

Because we still, all that evil stuff white folks done in the South, half of it ain't never been told, right? But all that stuff they did to us. And still, and yet we still, I believe, had more to do. Well, let me ask you, do you think that we had more to do with each other? Like, you know, talking to each other, living. with each other than black folks and white people here yeah you know that i feel that too but i don't understand why why do you think because see black and this is supposed to the free north right

but black and white and white and white folks are they don't know nothing about each other uh i find they never almost they have they can be people made like they are they don't like us they just put up with us because they have to why you think we have more to do with each other in the south even with that horrible history we didn't have to love each other and pretend if we did we got along together who else you're going to be with white folks than one of you're going to be with the white folks didn't want to be with us. They didn't want us. And they're psyched, just to use us. Ms. Pearl, can you talk about the garden you're involved with now with Chris, and if you're still growing crops that you grew up eating in that garden?

Yeah, everything. The tomatoes, all the peppers and the greens. Who don't eat good collard greens and a ton of greens. And I eat more herbs. I never had herbs before until I come here and start going to the garden with Chris. I ain't know what herbs were. I didn't know what that meant by that. but I know now it's really good really good I'm glad I went but you don't consider

that rabbit what you call it rabbit grass to be an herb I don't think of it as herbs you don't hear you ain't seen it here Chris I know the difference because I taste it

it's not the same two different things when I go home I'm gonna get it and show you the different rabbit grass has a tangy I know and do we make little fruits

that look like little pickles you ever seen them sometimes make little yellow flowers They got little yellow flowers I know you eat the flowers too well you got Show me. Yeah, they're all over.

You have a poke? Yeah. My mother, we have gone in the, on the gird and pick it. How y'all cook your poke? Just like you do green. They gotta throw the water off. Y'all didn't kick you like you grow. No, she took it out the water, right.

Yeah, she did. She did cooking the water, but not in this. Right, right. She will boil it first. Right. And then she would take it back and put in fresh water. Right. Yeah.

Well, can you talk about how you two met and what that's been like and what it looks like now? like now, work together in the garden. Oh, I love this man. It's super. A Chris, smart man. I like smart people. He's real smart. He knows some stuff by that garden. I'll be telling Doug, y'all, we got to learn some stuff from Chris. He knows every weed it is. We call it a weed.

It ain't a weed. He got us eating it. Right? Chris, I ain't never had so much of weeds in my life. But it's good weeds. They're good. It's good for you, you know? And I'd be telling Duck. Duck with somebody get out my face. I don't want to hear you with no Chris. Chris going to kill you a bit. I said, no.

I'm serious. I really, and I've been losing weight food with them herbs. I lose 20-something pounds. I don't eat no meat, no bread. I'm sticking with the herbs. All kinds. I hate them, but I eat them. I do.

I hate them. That taste, some of them things, taste, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Now, did y'all grow up eating? Did y'all eat? We didn't have no collard greens, not a little, very rarely. But y'all have collardine? That's all we had collard greens.

You had collard greens. Yes. You got to have turnips and mustard. Tunnel and mustard. We had it all. All three of them. All three of them. But what you eat more, you ate all the same.

All the same. The ton of greens, them bottoms. Oh, man, she used to make them by themselves. Right. With the fed back. With the cornbread, hot water bread. You know what hot water bread is? I do, but we didn't ever eat high water bread.

We did just a skill of corn bread. I make it now. But I didn't know in our part of Mississippi people was making that. Well, that's what it is from a skillet. That's why they call it. Well, you fried. That's true. But you fried in the skillet.

But you know what I'm talking about cornbread with the eggs. It's like how old a cornbread? You ain't got to put no eggs. Nothing but a little water. Right. Yeah, a little oil. That's all I do. They look kind of like hushed puppies a little bit.

Right. But I don't like that. You have certain cornmeal to make it. Yeah. I learned that. I learned that. Right. And it's the one with that little man on it.

That box. What, the Quaker? Quaker. That's the best one to make. The white. I don't like the yellow. And the only target has the white. Yeah.

Well, we don't. Well, y'all eat herbs. Y'all eat all the healthy stuff. I know, I eat my grits. I eat all. You eat grits? You eat grits? You eat white grits and stuff?

I didn't know that. Oh, I didn't know that. I bought your son back. I bought you them Jim Dandy. He brought me a yellow one. They were no yellow. He was a lie. No ma'am.

I bought you a box. I bought you a box. I bought you a box. I bought you a box. Oh, that's why I got them from. They was white. I know they was. I was wondering.

I said, what the hell of these grits come from? I bought them from Mississippi for you. Oh, just like that season And that boy had to hold That's why I'd never seen the heat It ate all up before I seen it I just found the bar You never had money

I had never never never I got a little dust out the pot At the bar I got the container I'm going to that store And look for it We're gonna go look for it too Owen said he saw it here

We're talking We're talking to see it at What's it called Supremo But it wasn't there When we went last week Shopping bag The shopping bag was where I saw it

Because Marvin was in that college Right down there Oh the cooking school Well, Walton Hill, yeah, my son was in school. That's how I saw it, because I was going in there, taking him to work. He saw it there, too. But he said it ain't been there now. I'm going to have my mama orders, son.

My mama orders it only, and she's sending to it. Don't he? I'm going to have a sense of. Oh, man. It's up out of Louisiana. That's what they make it from. Yes, ma'am. Did you also eat the tamales at Christmas?

Oh, what they also? I would hate, I forgot how to make them. They are so good. That's, yeah, that girl, make a Mexican girl. the junction but since that vibe is I don't see them and she used to make it and bring it to me because I would make her the banana pudding and she would make that and bring oh wow really they loved that banana pudding let me tell you she would pay me in me I'm making no more banana put I make that big pain he had never had that right because

that's our traditional food and I got but I had had the tamales right she was surprised that I knew what they're they don't know what Mexicans don't know black people in Mississippi eat that yeah well it's a Mississippi not the South because They don't eat in Alabama. They don't eat in Louisiana. If you go to talk about tamales, they don't know about tamales. Oh, really? No, ma'am.

It's Mississippi. The story I heard is that it happened in the 20s and maybe before they brought up all these Mexican workers to work in the fields alongside Blackville. When we'll start making it? They start in the 20s, yeah. And so Black folks was living next to the Mexicans. The Mexicans were making the tamales. We made our own version because, you know, ours is a little different to Mexican.

Mexican would be dry. Ours be in their sauce, you know, it'd be kind of like little moist or a little wetter. Be wrapped in the shop. wrapped up in the shelf, yeah, yeah, right. It's still getting the red, red, it's the red. They're not red, kind of, they're not red. There's not red, because they just used to pure cornmeal. I asked her, why was it right?

Ours was different. I was in a sauce. I asked it, girl, I said, why is it white? I used to be red. That's how it was supposed to be. That was the original one. Hers is original to my. We did, we made our own version.

I said, no way, you don't have to make me so much. Yeah, we made a, but we make it every, every Christmas time. Do you? You ain't never give me none. No, well, I forgot. You ain't forgot. I make it. Mexicans make it. I make it like the Mexican.

Oh. I haven't got another question. For your grandkids and the future, what are the most beautiful things you can remember from growing up that you want them to know about? Being intelligent, you respect themselves. You know what I mean? It means a lot. You got to like yourself. I tell them every day, look in the mirror. Say, I like me. And that'll go with them. So my mother used to tell us that, don't care how I put. who we is, you like yourself.

Don't let nobody never push you to the side. If they don't say excuse, you have to speak up for yourself. Yeah, and that's all we can do. Teaching to love one another and respect. Respect your elders. How did that, what did you do when you heard that from your mother? Like, how did that change your life? What, with my mom telling us what to do?

Telling you how to respect yourself and love you. I love it. I talk about, hey, I talk it every day. They get sick of me. They get sick of me. I said, hey, when I was asked, my mother raised me right. Y'all can't tell me, y'all can ask me. I said, D.L. I knew it all. She knew it all.

She didn't have no education, but she knew how to raise her church because she had 10 girls, and she would protect us from the outside world. That's all right. I didn't say. But a good mama. How do you think she turned out so good? Who? Your mother? I've wondered about that. Because her mama was rough

And my dad's mama was rough You know, bar women Hang on the bar stools and stuff My dad and them, nobody never drank We never drank, never smoke My mom never, nothing She always took us Always nobody never had to keep us

And we went to church And when she fixed that basket She said, churling, I'm telling you now When you get through eating, if you ain't got enough You better act like you got enough If anybody off you tell them, tell them no thank you. My mom fixed enough for us. It's not being respectful, though. You know, I appreciate you asking me, well, we could never take nothing from nobody. Nobody. And she never left

us with nobody. Nobody but us, them 10 girls. She kept up with them girls. And I appreciate it. Because I told you, you don't have to worry about nothing deal. When I get grown, I'm going to take care of you. I said, don't you worry about it. If y'all let me get away from these white folks and go to the city, didn't get a job, I'm going to dress you to find his mother in town. God in heaven knows, every time I call her, she said, Gail, when I got ready for church, I pinched myself on the shoulder, say, I'm the sharpest mother in town, because you told me I was going to be the sharpest mother. I said, gal, I'm charred.

She didn't wear nothing but Lesee Faye. You know what Lesterfay is, them dresses? From watermakers, Lesser Faye. Where would you buy them? In the store, like Macy's and stuff like. What was the stores? We didn't have no Macy's in Mississippi. Oh, you mean what you were bad when you was in California or Memphis or something?

No, but I bought mine when I went away from home and went to school. We had money. I would buy them in like North Termine and stuff out there at the bottom. No, what they call it? The rack. That was my stove. That was my stoke. Yeah, they had it, yeah.

And then, Lesotha Faye, I couldn't afford them to dress. They had to be in the bottom down there somewhere. I would get them dressed them hats. The black lady over there by the zoo. She used to make my mom's hats. it's not there anymore and she was shocked I spent all my money on my mom

I paid for her house and everything I did everything for her because I promised her that I would take care of her and dad because they worked so hard at nothing nothing wore the same dress every week day

they wore the same little suit every Sunday nothing and they were as happy they could be it's not a never sad moment and that's a good thing you get it chewing the night set around the fire place

roast them peanuts pop that corn and bake them sweet potatoes we would have it before we go to bed put all us around that fire and I'd be burning

from that fire wouldn't it you know that fire would burn you up daddy would make sure come on chum come deal with that chum come on chum

y'all get you all those spots oh there was some good sweet potatoes and peanuts and popcorn Popcorn, daddy did the whole raise our own popcorn. Right. That's the best popcorn.

That's what y'all need to do. Start raising some popcorn. Believe me. The squirrels and the deal won't let us keep them. Believe me. It's so soft, no huss. No huss in the homemade popcorn. Raised popcorn.

The best popcorn. Sweet. I grew up before. You did? I have before, yes, ma'am. It's hard to grow corn here. You don't have had a hard time this year too. And them peanuts?

Oh, man. Then the rats eat them up in the ground. They can't even eat. Ain't that pitiful? I get a few of them. Yeah, and it's so good, boy. So that's the only way I eat mine. I got some peanuts from, um, raw.

We get some peanuts from Mississippi one time. Yeah, I got, because I gave you some. Yeah, I did. But we can, it ain't nothing like Mississippi stuff. I don't know what's wrong with that ground down there. Everything would be so good, wasn't it? Oh, man. That would pull me up.

I wouldn't even eat. And you can put up, you can put up. And water's drinking water. That water is real good. Yeah, I said, Gary, you got to eat, I don't have to eat. This water is filling me up. It's all sunk. It's soft, too.

Ain't it, Chris? When you put the soap under, you can make, you can just make bubbles. We were bubble bath. You know, we never had to buy it on bubble bag. That was our bubble. We used to go on.

Yep. You can do that with Warren in Mississippi. Yeah. Just a bar of soap and they make a bubble, just like it was a bubble bag. You just bluff and they go flying. They had a big old fat ones, wouldn't it? Hello?

That was good living. Good living, honey. They'd have the city people who has no clue. If I could live it over, I would. Five years old. My mother made me a sack. to pick that cotton, groping down through that field.

I can see myself right now. Dragging the sack. Dragging the sacks. She would make them. She made the sacks. She made the sacks out of their rice and stuff, the flour and stuff, and put them on our shoulders.

You mean the bags? She would sew them together, bags and would the rice come in? Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Was it like potatoes, like potato sack, that same material, brown? Uh-huh. Yeah, uh-huh.

She would. Ms. Pearl, how do you think y'all, how do you think, I know that y'all were Christian people? But how do you think y'all faith in God helped y'all to survive? How do you think it helped y'all to get by in them times? It's a rough time. My mother always taught us, God is a just guard.

You don't do no more for salad than do for sale. And I believe that to today. That would bother me. I ain't hate nobody. I just want to do what I had to do. Because God raises all. He all give us a mouth and talk. You can't tell me when to talk or how to talk.

I have to learn. What's doing it different than me? Your skin may be different, but you couldn't. me old and we're all the same and that was my attitude I could care less about the color it's just what it is it's what it is it was good we had a good life because if I live it over I lived the same way with my mom and my dad and my sisters and my brothers real good real good he was a family we the Jackson was the Jackson everybody came to the Jackson they did everybody in that show

every family reunion has so many people to couldn't what don't turn out because we always my dad and them we always had it daddy was a good provider because he got everything from the white man you know what I mean

he had plenty of food they were stealing daddy would keep on giving they would come and we'd think we in the bed and daddy go to town him and mama they would tell that

fuck was stealing your food yeah he followed one person to their house wait the bag had a hole in it Chris Chris Chris

I think that really started hating people after that. Seriously. It was courting them. Mr. James Shepherd, them didn't want to take the okra and make the coffee. Y'all should try that. The coffee seed. Yeah, I've heard of it.

The ochre seeds. The ochre seeds. That's for real, for real. Yes, ma'am. They used to grind them up and put them in there and make that the only coffee they ever drink. And they had us drinking it. They roasted first.

And there's nothing to that done stuff. Let it dry out. And no can get black. Yes, and they would make coffee. And you drank that old coffee too? I heard about people drinking. It wasn't bad. It wasn't bad, but we would never have it.

But they would never have that. Because they would, they were the one, we was, daddy with them so, take care of so, because so many of them, Mr. Jane Shepard and Dorothe and all of them give down in the country. He would always feel sorry for them. And they came when Dee saw Mom and Daddy going to town, because Daddy would take no by the town by this mom. Because she like to sit up on that bar and drink that beer. go along. And that's why I used to get so mad with Dad.

I said, yeah, you're taking your mom and you won't take me. But I'm going. I'm going to town. I can hear myself right now saying that to Dad. No, he's going to tear me up if he catches me at Dunn Town. Chris, what a day? Oh, he said, I was his girl. He called me Scroo.

He said, that's my girl. And when I get dressed up, he was sitting his wheelchair. Come on, Scroo, I'm waiting on to see what you look like. What fashion model are you going to be? I said, Dad, the way you used to whoop me. Dad, you tell me up, Chris, I always did something. Sound like you earned them.

I did. Shit, I never really, ain't even bother me. It didn't bother me. Everybody's crying for me because I get a whoop. In Casey, bro, you need to shut up. Oh, Mr. Jay, let me tell you about this corn mill. Dad, got up that Sunday morning. We get ready to go to church.

I'll never forget it. Daddy, come here. Well, y'all, y'all, y'all know what? Willa Rose, he called my mom. Willa Rose. guess what? Yo, friends don't stole our corn mill.

Dill said, how did shit you know? Uh-oh. How you know? How you know? She said, he said, you just went out here

and look and take that trail all the way down that road. He went to their house that back. It went all the way to the house. And they, and they felt so bad.

I feel sorry for them. Dad said, I don't give her nothing there. Dill said, shit, yes, you is. Because Mr. James Shepp in them and their family

would help us do it with the hog because dad had a lot of hog. He kept a lot of, because everybody would buy from him and that was it they just mr. Jay the last one just died they told me last year mad yeah they live back in the woods they don't somebody lived in the woods they won't come out you see it on TV and stuff that's for real for real that's for real for real people do live like that

they live like that they lived in the woods drinking in an open coffee because that's what they chose to do they did it was crazy kept them cheering down and never went to school or nothing. None of them. None of them. And the last girl just died. What is some the daughter's kids, two girls, they go to the church. That's how can we know about them? I'm kidding. No one about. They did go to church at least. Yeah, they was church

people's, totally church of people. What else? And there's nothing else to do in the stuff, but go to church. And go to home. And eat and go to bed. Eat them peanuts and popcorn and not go to bed. With a snow, we snowing for months at a time. You can see nobody for months. You couldn't even see your neighbors. I told you, my brother got killed Chicago he was dead for three weeks before we know he was there yeah because daddy

wouldn't even let us listen to the radio I don't even listen to the radio today I listen to the only because he was just the who he was the Christian man Christian yeah no no nothing right nothing when time to go to bed go to bed and get up get ready to go to work right yeah yeah yeah we could yeah we could yeah we could yeah we could listen to the radio but I know it was certain things we couldn't do that they sound crazy to people up here but we could never have a deck of cars in our house now we're on the property you never had no and you didn't have no diet Nothing.

You were going to hell if you had dice. You didn't have no dice in your house. Nothing. It was funny about monopoly, even stuff. And we didn't play none of that. We didn't play none of that. We didn't play nothing with money. Yeah.

I wasn't raised up with it. Don't, I don't. That's what I say too. Look, and I'm the only, and when I, by the time I got to college, I didn't know how to play spades. I didn't know how to play spades. I said, I grew up in a Christian home. They are all from the north.

They didn't know what they got to do with anything. I said, no, we didn't touch no car. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing at all. Only black boy didn't know how I played on space. None of that bid whist, none of that. I just know the name.

And by the time I was old enough to play it, I wasn't interested. That's what I'm saying. I don't care about no radio now. People talking about you work in these houses. I don't want to listen to no radio. I listen to me. I'm talking about. Yeah, well, that's true.

No. You stop it. You're on radio. I like the radio, but definitely. But the cars, I ain't interested in no cars, no dominoes. We couldn't play no dominole. You think my friend didn't talk to me. I don't care about y'all talking about me.

I know how I was raised. I was raised up the right way. I don't care. What y'all doing is going to fade away. It's going to fade away, honey. But what I got going to last forever. Amen. Hear me?

No, and it's lasting forever. So they didn't want to miss out. I didn't. If I could go back, I would go back. And I would get them white folks, and I would just, I would mess with them now and shown up. Oh, man, I just do it again. Why he was so mean?

And the ones I worked for, I would ever do. A friend always tell me, you got that. black look i said now what the hell you mean by that right well white folks used like they say yeah but i had never heard that when she said that i was i thought i'll leave him right now i'll leave i'll leave i thought she was talking about you being black yeah and she's talking she told everybody she got so upset you damn right i got upset why would not why you you give me the white look did i ever say that to you I had an answer for them, okay?

Now, did I ever say you got a white look at me? In my face. I didn't shake up to them. You got what I need, and I got what you want. You want your house clean? I need your money to pay my bill. That's all. And we're done.

When I leave, I see you the next week. Do you think, Ms. Pearl, that we, if things was different, things have been the reverse, you know, opposite in Mississippi, but the whole South, that if we was in power and white folks was on the bottom, do you think we would have behaved with them like they behaved with us? You think we would have treated them? No. Black people would treat them better, because black people ain't got no sense. They would have treated them white folks better.

Believe me. Cutting in here to summarize a moment when Ms. Pearl gave an example of how her family members, in this case, a young Ms. Perley herself, would be blamed for crimes and transgressions that white neighbors had committed. Chris, I was waiting on him to hit me. I stood on the hole for him to come and hit me. But I bet you he didn't. I bet you took that horse and turned around and went on the other way.

You can go tell Dad. But Daddy would whip me. He knew how to make me get a whooping because he would tell Daddy. And then Dad, time I'm a squirrel I love. You don't love me, Daddy. You always hoopper me across the white man. Told you, I did this and I did, Dad. What did I do, Dad?

I go out and pick 500 pounds a kind of day. Much as all my sisters put together, I picked 6,700 every day, Chris, picked it and carried to make dad that like me. He didn't like me. He liked me, but he didn't want me to act like I was acting. You understand what I'm saying? Well, he didn't want you to die. Right, too, but I didn't care about that all that.

Don't listen to my wife. You know, you think. Maybe he wanted you to live. He loved me before he left this word, boy. He was paying for me. They would get mad. Here come my squirrel. Let me see what she looked like today.

I said, Daddy, I got it down. You got it going on, baby. Oh, I used to make him laugh. He was really happy. When he died, he said, where's my squirrel? I said, your squirrel is in his other room. She's coming. I'll be right there, dad.

Don't you die until I get there. He said, gal, I'm waiting for you. I said, it's okay. When I got that, he died that night. I was coming from here. Really? Yeah. And he waited for you.

I was bad, but they took my butt enough to be his buddy. We didn't hate each other. I was just bad. And he wanted me to be good, but I wasn't cake. I wasn't doing so. I was purr. I worked. They didn't work.

They were smart. Went to school, college, and I didn't go to college. I didn't go to no college. God, give me a college already. I didn't. I wanted to work and help my mom in them. And I went to that field, and I picked six and seven hundred pounds every day.

Not one day, every day. And the only thing my mother told my dad that he wasn't right, on the sad, whatever you pick, he would give you the money. You know what I mean? On Saturday. Yeah.

But he didn't. He would give me the same thing. He would get him, quarter. That's all we was getting. It was a quarter. But Dill told him he should give me a dollar. But he didn't. Because you picked him out? Yeah. Kate never knew Kate was scared of heroin. She did him over running. She did pick nine. Shoot. And Dune's, she was too busy in book. That was the principal for 40 years. Dune's always has been smart, very smart. You know, she'd, yeah, retired. She taught the same

school we went to and every time. Yeah. Dune were good. She was good. And the wife would cut her down because she went through computer. They made her retire. he said something that's the white man they got the problem the black people stuck with the white man and they voted voted her out

what you didn't say I want to know if you want to say anything to Miss Pearl oh well I want to say something that's Pearl I don't know I you know I for me

it was very Miss Pearl is only Mississippian was she maybe one of baby two i don't think i only know two mississippi's only native born mississippi in town that i know so when i met miss perl it was really was like me and a relative i mean it was me in a relative we from close enough it was so excited i'm excited today we were very exciting and i remember that when we started talking and you she said she's from mississippi she said i'm from mississippi i don't i really talk because i heard her accent

don't nobody sound like we do and you can put to me a room for it can be It can be folks from Alabama, Louisiana, all different places. But I can hear a Mississippi accent. Yes, yeah. And so when I asked her, I said, and where are you from? And she said, she's from Mississippi. I was like, where are you from Mississippi? She told me Shaw, and I said, I'm from Greenville.

And we realized that we were from so close together. So for me, it's been very important because I don't have, I don't have them. I don't know who you know other Mississippians you know here, but the black people here in Philadelphia don't get. They don't come from Mississippi. And our culture is so different. So I'm very grateful, you know, to. got to have met miss pearl you know she's like auntie to me here in town because we

don't we don't we don't really have nobody else not from where we're from and so you could talk about certain things we don't know they don't know nothing about no turn of greens they don't know they've never had a mustard green chris was the best thing ever happened to me I'm telling ducum pearl I get sick of hearing Chris Chris this Chris that's dog shit the hell up listen to me finish I see me and Chris did this Chris got get on my nerves and blah blah blah blah she said no he don't because that's all you're talking about is Chris But even that, you know, so knowing Ms. Pearl, we got, you know, we got to know her sister, Duck and Mr. Earl. And so now, you know, as a result, now we all connected.

And my parents go down and sit with them and hang out with them sometime. That's right. They trade produce and honey and all these other different things, you know. And so it's created, it has created. So I'm really grateful because I'm really happy somebody here from down south. Yeah, we don't have, we don't have, you know, black people from here from. North Carolina and South Carolina, that's just a different world. She was a total different world.

They're not loving people like we are. It's not, we're friendly people. Mississippi is known for hospitality. Yes, yes. I mean, and they say all the South is known for hospitality, but it is a little bit different. It's a different, big different. I'll just tell you, you just one example. You know, as soon as we come in the house, your daughter had come in.

The oldest one. Yeah, yes, ma'am. And she came, and the first thing she did was come in and find some chairs for us to sit down. Now, that may seem like a small thing, but I, I don't think that most I do not think that and she wasn't born in Mississippi but she was raised by people you know who are southerners and so to me like that's small thing and ask you know you're comfortable on that chair like little stuff like that that I noticed that immediately you know and so like yeah when they raised it does like they know yeah you don't you don't see that and I would say even from the black people here even when they're friendly there's like a limit you know we're going to offer you food when you come into our house it'd be embarrassing not to offer folks something to drink or something eat if you want you know but I don't that's not it's so it is it is our culture is different plus the food is different you know maybe talk about me because the way I do with people's it

if I say what money you do you come you got it from me when she does for people but they always say I'm always going to do I say look at you you're doing the same thing well we can't help it yeah we will just raise to help others that's another thing too in Mississippi is very known people help each other the poor especially and it don't matter if you are poor yourself You'll still help somebody else poorer than you. Yeah, Mr. James Shepardin was a very poor family. And dad took care of that family. And like I said, they stole for him.

He still kept on doing it. He didn't let that stop. And they sang them two girls right now, the same way with the family. They talk about it too. How the Jackson took care of them. Yes, they did. That's how we created connections. And I believe that that's the kind of stuff to help us survive, you know, as a people.

Right. And we, because we had that. And to me, I created a lot of it to our faith and God. You know that we believe when you ask about God, first thing, she says God is a just God. That's a theology. That's a way of understanding the creator that tells you everything about the people. You know, if your concept of God, first and foremost is that God is about justice.

Right. It's about making things right. Yeah, to me, I'm very grateful and blessed, you know, that we found each other. I'm real excited. Yeah. I love Chris. You my song. Thank you.

Well, thank you, Ms. Pearl for talking us. This has really been invaluable. You're a really nice. You're a nice kid. Nice young man. Thank you so much to Miss Pearl Trotter for this interview and for her friendship. And thank you for listening and sharing this episode of Seeds and Their People with your loved ones. Please also subscribe and leave a positive review.

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