Seeds And Their People - EP. 14: Iris Brown: Afro-Puerto Rican food and culture in Philadelphia

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

In this episode, we hear from Señora Iris Brown of Loíza, Puerto Rico, who grew up learning to cook and use herbs from her grandmother and the strong women of her hometown. She came to New York in 1967 for economic reasons, and moved to Philadelphia in 1970 when she fell in love with the back yards here. She said “I saw the possibilities of planting flowers, hanging a hammock, and looking at the stars!!”  In the 1980s, she and her friend Tomasita Romero co-founded Grupo Motivos, a collective of Puerto Rican women that worked with West Kensington residents to establish the historic and award-winning Norris Square gardens on many blighted, vacant properties that had been used for selling drugs. Now part of Norris Square Neighborhood Project, these spaces are filled with life and beauty and Puerto Rican culture. SEED STORIES TOLD IN THIS EPISODE: Northern Adapted Pigeon Peas (Gandules) Aji Dulce (Seasoning Pepper) For a more complete list, see bottom of page MORE INFO FROM THIS EPISODE: Please Support Hurricane Relief in Loíza, PR: Taller Salud Resources and organizations mentioned: Norris Square Neighborhood Project (NSNP) NSNP: Instagram; Facebook; Web Documentary: Grupo Motivos presents: Villa Africana Colobó (Vimeo) Cookbook: El burén de Lula Reference book: Earth And Spirit: Medicinal Plants And Healing Lore From Puerto Rico by Maria Benedetti ABOUT: Seeds And Their People is a radio show where we feature seed stories told by the people who truly love them. Hosted by Owen Taylor of Truelove Seeds and Chris Bolden-Newsome of Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden. trueloveseeds.com/blogs/satpradio   SUPPORT OUR PATREON! Become a monthly Patreon supporter! This will better allow us to take the time to record, edit, and share seed stories like these.   FIND OWEN HERE: Truelove Seeds Facebook  |  Tumblr  |  Instagram  |  Twitter   FIND CHRIS HERE: Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden   THANKS TO: Iris Brown Norris Square Neighborhood Project Luz Maria Orozco Akoth Tutu Maebh Aguilar Tania María Ríos Marrero and Grimaldi Baez SEED STORIES TOLD IN THIS EPISODE (CONTINUED): Oregano de Puerto Rico (Lippia micromera) Avocado, Aguacate (Persea americana) Papaya, Lechosa (Carica papaya) Annatto, Achiote (Bixa orellana) Vicks (Plectranthus tometosa) Leren (Goeppertia allovia)  Red-Stemmed Yuca, Cassava (Manihot esculenta) Mother of Millions (Kalanchoe daigremontiana) Rue, Ruda (Ruta graveolens) Basil, Abahaca (Ocimum basilicum)  Lemongrass, Limoncillo (Cymbopogon citratus) Life Plant, Oja de Bruja (Kalanchoe pinnatum)  Soursop, Guanábana (Annona muricata) Dandelion (Taraxacum officinale) Plantain, Llantén (Plantago major) Krapao, Thai Holy Basil (Ocimum spp.) Pigeon Peas, Gandules (Cajunus cajun) Aji Dulce, Seasoning Pepper (Capsicum annuum) Peppermint, Menta (Mentha piperita) Ornamental Sweet Potato (Ipomoea batatas) Zinnia (Zinnia elegans) Black Eyed Peas, Frijol de Caritas (Vigna unguiculata) Cleome (Cleome hassleriana) Castor, Higuereta (Ricinus comunis) Coconut, Coco (Cocos nucifera)

These people, at that time, that was on a road, it was just racks and, you know, it was just a simple, a path. And these people, they will take their shoes, hang them, because they didn't want the shoes to get messed up. And then they will stop across the river, the longest river in Puerto Rico, that's what we have, in a boat, little boat. and they will stop in my mother's, my grandmother's house to clean their feet and put on, put on their shoes. They will bring my grandmother like grape, sea grapes, or they will bring her crops, land crabs, or they will bring her eggs from the turtles, or they will bring her these specialties that are from that area that we don't have. And my grandmother, she will make their favorite soup or the favorite baccalao or whatever it was. She knew exactly it was this connection that she would have that special meal for this particular person that it was coming.

And then the stories and the laugh and it was just incredible. Oh my. Oh, my goodness. Welcome back to Seeds and Their People. I'm Chris Bolden Newsom, farmer and co-director at Sankofa Farm at Bartram's Garden in sunny southwest Philadelphia. And I'm Owen Taylor, seed keeper and farmer at True Love Seeds. We are a seed company offering culturally important seeds grown by farmers committed to cultural preservation, food sovereignty, and sustainable agriculture.

This podcast is supported by True Love. seeds and now also you. We're so grateful to the 38 of you who support our seedkeeping and storytelling work through Patreon at patreon.com slash true love seeds. Thank you so much to our most recent patrons, Brian S. Yon Yon, Casey, Ruth, and Jacoby. And thank you to all our Patreon members and all of our listeners. Our dear friend Jacobi Ballard shared this. It is a joy to support the possibility. models that Owen and Chris live and lift up through their lives and interviews. Y'all inspire my own dedication to food justice, and I shout out your seeds, calendar, and

podcast to anyone who cares about food or gardening. Thank you, Jacoby. We love you. This episode features an interview with Signora Iris Brown from Louisa Puerto Rico, who came to New York in 1967 for economic reasons and then moved to Philadelphia in 1970 when she fell in love with the backyards here. She said, I saw the possibilities of planting flowers, hanging a hammock, and looking at the stars. In the 1980s, she and her friend, Tomasita Romero, co-founded Grupo Motivos,

a collective of Puerto Rican women that worked with West Kensington residents to establish the now historic and award-winning Norris Square gardens on many blighted vacant properties that had been used for selling drugs. Now part of Norris Square Neighborhood Project. These spaces are filled with life and beauty, and they reverberate with Puerto Rican culture. Edis and I met in her home in 2013 through our mutual friend, Marion, during the brief time that I was the community organizer for the Garden Justice Legal Initiative here in Philly. Later that year, Marion brought Edis and Tomasita out to roughwood seed collection where they helped us save seeds under the apple trees. Over the years, Edis has shared many seeds and plants and stories of Puerto Rico with us,

and this year, True Love Seeds started seedlings for her garden projects at Norris Square, including gondulets and ahiduice peppers. So as always, I want to ask you, Chris, what were your reflections on listening to this interview? Well, this was another awesome interview. I really, really appreciated the wisdom. the lived wisdom that Dona Yiris dropped on us in her beautiful interview. There were lots of points where I identified with her work and with some of the current issues around culture

for people living in a diaspora. Of course, her diaspora is Borinka diaspora, the Puerto Rican diaspora, and mine is African-American, the African diaspora here in the Atlantic world. So one thing that I really noticed it really stood out to me, There were a few things. But I definitely identified with Doniris' work to help her people here in the United States to reconnect to their own greatness and how sometimes, you know,

we don't always understand the importance of our arts and our foods that, you know, sometimes we don't know that the rest of the world really, really, really values this. She also talked a lot about the importance of grandparents and our culture, particularly in our shared African culture. It really stood out to me how much she really lifted up the africanity of Puerto Rico as an elder that's very important because it's something that I am accustomed to as a 45-year-old to younger, activist, and other people who are very interested in Puerto Rican causes noticing and celebrating our African culture, but to hear her as my elder talking about Luisa

being an island that's just drenched in African culture and that has really sort of turned African traditions into this living, vibrant force, you know, after slavery, during slavery and after slavery in Puerto Rico. And I found that to be a very beautiful similarity with my own culture as an African American. Definitely the importance of grandparents, which she she spoke of, you know, being something that historically for us is just so important. Grandparents passing on knowledge and wisdom in ways that parents don't always have the time to or honestly, you know, have not yet really, really processed some of their own cultural traditions in a way that's transmittable to their children.

So really lifting up the importance of grandparents and something that's particularly powerful in all diaspros, I think, all the world definitely, but certainly in. and diasporals where people want to hold on to some of their cultural traditions. I thought that it was a very beautiful and great spiritual service in the way she talks about keeping our traditional species, growing them out, so that people can visit and familiarize themselves with them. Even here in the United States, in the mainland United States, where you can't grow many.

of those traditional crops to seed. You know, they won't always go to seed. They won't always be able to produce the foods that they would in her homeland. And I find that also to be something that I really recognize as well. I've never seen a muskidine since I've been in Pennsylvania, but they're very important where I come from. So just keeping those crops alive, even if they're not going to go to seed and be able to be passed down, I think is sort of a powerful.

I thought it was very exciting to learn, you know, about some of the uses of these crops that I hadn't thought about, that I didn't know about. One that stood out to me was the use of the las ojas de gandules, the gandul leaf or a pigeon pea leaves to brush your teeth. I love that, and I'm going to try it. I also was really excited to learn about the tradition in Loisa of heating up castor bean leaves and applying. them to an area of where there's pain, you know, on the body. I live with plantar fasciitis, a foot condition that makes walking barefoot very painful. And, you know, I've tried that. And I noticed it definitely felt better. And I think I'm going to keep trying it. Again, castor being is something that grows where I'm from and is very much used as well in

African American traditions in the deep south and African traditions all over since indeed it is an African plant, a plant of African origin, but we only knew about the oil, which my parents and grandparents used to make us take in the springtime, and it was a really nasty, messy affair. But that's what we knew about castor being, so I was really pleased to know some other use for that plant. And overall, this was just a very powerful interview for me. Again, you know, and often I find this with a lot of the interviews that I get to see sort of the connections between my own culture and myself as a person living outside of my homeland in the deep south and noticing that, you know, that there's so much that we share

across cultures when we are in those situations. I hope everyone enjoys this interview as much as I did and learn something and maybe hopefully even make a connection or two between your own culture and that of Doniades and her work. Totally. And another invitation for the listeners, please check out what's happening in Puerto Rico right now. Hurricane Fiona just came through two days ago and brought massive flooding.

The whole island lost power. Over a million people don't have clean drinking water. And this is just five years after Hurricane Maria. And so there's a catastrophe happening. Puerto Rico right now that's not making it to the news as much as it should. And we'd love to lift that up and offer our prayers and support for Puerto Rico. And actually one way to support is by sending money for hurricane disaster relief. Thanks to Maeve, my co-worker, for sending me information about a Louisa-based women's organization called Tayer Salud, T-A-L-L-E-R.

S-A-L-U-D. That is, again, based in Edis' hometown of Louisa, Puerto Rico, and they are in place to do a lot of support for the community there. I'm putting the link to that organization in the show notes. Please check out the show notes. Now, this interview was done a few weeks ago. I sat down with Senora Iris in her garden, La Villa Africana Colabo at the corner of Dauphin and Pailthorpe Street, across the street from Las Percela's Garden, and down a couple blocks down from North Square Park. And you'll hear buses and music from cars and loud cell phone talkers and an occasional distant rooster. Enjoy the conversation. My name is Iris Brown. And right now we are in our African garden. It's called Villa Africana Colovo. And it represents a part of my hometown of Loisa, Puerto Rico.

What do we see here for the people who can only hear, which is everybody else except for you and me? What do we see? Well, you're asking me, I will tell you that we see a beautiful garden with beautiful colors and beautiful things. things that most of them are recycled things that I find and other people in the neighborhood bring them to me and we turn them into what we call art it's a small garden that people from the community they really enjoy and it's a lot of conversations so it is a garden but it is more than a garden give us a sense of belonging and also a place where we could talk about any subjects we could read together we could dance together we could cook together so it is more than a

garden to us who started this garden and when I started the garden and this is the youngest garden of Norwich Grand Neighborhood Project we have six and this is the youngest one I started the garden out of necessity because we are pro-recans and we are I call myself a mutt and we have we have pieces of different nationalities starting with the Tainos native people and then the Europeans came and they came from different parts of Europe and then people from Africa so we are all mixed and that's why we we come skin color and eyes and hair texture or some of us like to dance this or the other or whatever.

We are, it seems like a very simple group of people, but then it's complicated. So I just wanted to have a space where we could talk about this third route. We have the Taino root, we have the European route, and we have the African roots. And I just wanted to have felt the need of having a space where we could talk about that third route that is,

It's not the easiest one to talk about. A lot of people feel very comfortable talking about the tainos and the skin color and that straight black hair, or the Europeans. But then when it is Africa, then it's like, okay, it's like looking for that straight hair somewhere, somewhere. And I grew up surrounded by people that look like me. And I was very happy growing up.

I learned so much. of these people growing up when I came here to the United States. It was like, oh, okay, I am supposed to be different, and I don't believe that. Where you came from is very special, Loisa. Can you describe what makes Louisa so special in Puerto Rico? According to history, we are the only town that we had a woman as a chief. Her name was Juiza, very close to Loisa. Our territory was all the way to the rainforests, and it was San Juan, was part of Loiza,

Carolina was part of Loisa, and all that has been taken away from us. We have been marginated all through history, and we grew up thinking that we didn't have anything to offer to the rest of the world, and that is not true. We have many things to offer and they are related to Africa, especially the west part of Africa. Even, it's a place in my hometown, it's called Mediani Alta and Colobo, that even the accent has been traced to Africa. When I go there, my friends here, they know that I was in Loiza because I just want to imitate. It's like music. If we talk about the history, we were one of the first town founded in Puerto Rico.

So we should be like the capital or we should be like a Carolina. They are very prosperous, not in Loiza. And the reason why is it was because the people that came from Africa, they stay in Loiza because the mosquitoes, they say that the Europeans, they couldn't stand the mosquitoes and the Africans, they didn't have. have a choice. And for them, it's like, OK, I try to live with the mosquitoes, but I'm free in this area.

And that's why Loisa is so special. Because the way that we cook, even the accent, the way that we dance, the way that we play music, what we do with the resources is, I want to say, 90% African. And that's why I believe that the way that this garden should be here, because like here in the United States, I see the same thing that the color of your skin makes a difference. And what a privilege has been for me to be able to try to put together the color of my skin with the color of the flowers and vegetation

and textures. That is music to me. So my hope. has been for more than 30 years now. To be able to present to the neighborhood and to visitors and to anybody that is interested, a tiny play is very humble, but it's full of connections with the motherlands, Africa. What are some of the ways that this space represents Africa? I'm going to say they're hot. I have never been in Africa. That is one of my dreams to be able to go there.

But I have just, I cannot tell you that I have read a book completely about Africa. I flipped pages and I read perhaps a chapter or I see a picture and it's just like, I get this. It's something that I don't know how to even explain it. most of the times it's like I close my eyes and I honestly I believe that I have been there It's that connection that I is hard to explain So with that in mind When sit a carol cake she was the director of Norway Square She said we are going to have volunteers teenagers

They were going to be here for three weeks and she asked me what do you have in mind And I said, okay, they are African village And with the help of Jim Shield, he was an architect. I mentioned to him what I would like to see, and then he was the one that put it together with the helpers. And they have been here for more than 25 years. They don't get wet, not snow, but nothing. They are extremely strong. And then when you open them, even the smell, I put parsley oil.

oil. It reminds me of my grandmother. And some people from Africa, they have come here, and they recognize the smell. And they say that it smells like parts, some of them, where they grew up. So it's just putting these details. How else does Africa show up in this garden? How else? Or the ways that Africa kind of reverberates in Louisa. Like how is that transported here besides the huts you know when I came here I'm the oldest of 10 so I was very strong I was very outspoken I was defending my mother from my alcoholic father I was defending my siblings I was the one that got in trouble because I was like no no when I came here I was the opposite I went into a shell

And I hate it. I used to cry a lot. I remember I went to the bank and I left my ID at home. But I have been going to the same bank for about three years. And the teller didn't want to help me in what I needed that day. But it was a white woman, the next teller. And she said, I'm sorry, but I forgot my ID. No problem, Mrs. Whoever. No problem. Mrs. However, this is Mrs. Brown here. You know what I'm saying? It's like same bank, two different bank accounts, customers, where, why she had this privilege? I said, I need to speak to the manager. And he took care of the situation, but why do I have to go that far? So, Loisa, I brought Loisa with me and that really that atmosphere of growing up. with mostly all these women, very strong women, no education whatsoever. But my grandmother, she had a business.

She used to cook for the people that caught the sugar cane. Somehow she knew math. How she knew how much rice to put in there to cook? How she knew that these people, they were not paying her every single day. They will pay her on Saturdays. How she knew exactly. is she got the right amount of money. How she knew that she needed to give the money back?

No education, but she was not dumb. And I saw all these women and men, but they were mostly women in my community. And it was just one of them. She was a seamstress. And I was like, oh, my God. When I came here, of course, that education is extremely,

important. But if for some reason you don't have that education, it's not the end of the work. You have to work harder. In my case, I went to college. I didn't finish. I tried here at college. I didn't finish either. But my life has not been that bad. I met Natalie Kepner, and she was one of the founders of Norris Grand Neighbor Project, and she was the teacher of my second daughter. For some reason, she had this faith in me. that I didn't have. She taught elementary school in Puerto Rico for one year, so she knew where I was coming from. And she was just an incredible human being that I didn't feel threatened by her. I didn't feel less, nothing. It was just like, like she was

me comadre, you know, it was so, and she gave me that confidence. She would pat my head And she said, you will learn, the English, you will learn, and so on. And then I started working in Norway Square as a volunteer. And she promised me that when, it was the beginning of Norway Square, the building, it was not even ready. They were fixing the building. And she promised me, as soon as I get some funds, I'm going to hire you. She did. And I have been linked to Norrisquare for all of this year.

What year was that? I have to do some adding and sub subtraction, but we are going to be celebrating our 50th anniversary next year. So I'm telling you my age, right? And my daughter, she was in third grade. So, you know, with some adding and subtracting, but it was many years ago. Her theme was environmental issues,

and that's what she was teaching and that's what I was learning to teach the children of the community and she did it in a way that it was so special she wanted to meet every single parent of the children that she was teaching in the middle of the park

because Norway Square it was not ready and I was like my teacher in Puerto Rico, Mrs. Gutierrez she will go meet every single parents of my class So it was just like these two women, they have something.

Not only she didn't have to meet their parents. Mrs. Gutierrez, she didn't have to meet my parents or everybody else to teach her Spanish class. I don't have to do many, many things to be a gardener. So you see the connections. And it happened one time that when we were teaching in McKinley, it was a group of children, two or three. like two or three, that they were not participating in the class. And the second time that we went there, looked at them, and I just walked to them,

said, Buenos Dias. Missy, do you have Spanish? If I'm a Spanish. Where are you from? Telling me, what do you do? Do you have a river? Do you climb trees? Do you work at jacks?

And then I came back to Natalie. I said, Natalie, this is what happened today. I want you to give me the okay to try to imagine this class with them, a Puerto Rican class with them. She said, go ahead. Oh, that was the beginning of the Puerto Rican experience. It was no Spanish station, radio station, no television, no telephones. It was no a single Spanish book in any of the libraries. So what do I do?

I started writing my family. send me labels of products, send me a cutting of newspapers, send you the money, and it would take about almost two weeks for mail to go back and forth, almost two weeks. I accumulated all of the things that I will use to help the children and the songs. I used to sing at that time. I can't sing it anymore. Are you sure? Because that would be really nice as the audio recording. No, no, no, no, no. I don't want to mess it up. But it was just, it became such an important class for me.

And it was because I was able to be Puerto Rican again. I was able to be Puerto Rican again. And to be able to share that with our future leaders and husbands and wife and teachers. Oh, it was just like, oh, I couldn't believe the opportunity. opportunity that he was presented to me my co-worker may have texted me a question for you that I think you're getting at now is is what what is this project doing for this neighborhood noise square like I have mentioned we have been here for 49 years I see

now generations three generations three generations and I see the children that used to go to Norie Square at the beginning I see them they most of them they went to college they have very nice homes and they are successful their children I think my in that case my my children that second generation they are finishing college they are firefighters there and some of them they have children. That was a part of what we were doing in Nois Square and in the gardens. Trying to use any opportunity that I could make. It's not that they give me, that I could put

Puerto Rico and Loisa and the culture and the music everywhere that I go. It could be my rap. It could be the colors that I wear. Somebody is going to be. be like Puerto Rican with black in me and I need to represent I need to represent so that people will don't be afraid of what they don't know well let's go back a little ways because I'm really interested to hear more about your grandmother now that you've mentioned her and the fact that she was a cook and that she worked with farmers and I since this really is focused on food and farming. I'd love to have you paint a picture of that time.

My grandmother, her name was Monserater Rivera, and she was my hero. I was the oldest of her grandchildren, and I knew that I was special, so special. So it was like she was here, and you will see me next to her learning. I guess that's why I love to cook, and that's why I love. the herbs, no refrigeration, of course, no electricity. So it will be, Mira, Iris, be buskame the oregano, and she will have the special way of toasting the oregano.

See, it was not taking the oregano and just put it raw. No, she had to cook it on top of the lead and then crumbles up. Never saw her measuring anything, and the food was perfect. It had to be perfect. be perfect for her. And I grew up there. And the people that went to get this food, they were sugar cane cutters. They did very humble people. But the stories that I heard good or good and bad, the friendships that I witnessed. When you go to Loisa, it's

Carolina here at the airport this year. This is the Atlantic Ocean. And it's a road with, I don't know how many palm trees, that it would take you to my hometown. These people, at that time, that was not a road. It was just racks and, you know, it was just a simple path. And these people, they will take their shoes, hang them, because they didn't want the shoes to get messed up. And then they will stop, cross the river,

the longest river in Puerto Rico. That's what we have in a boat, little boat. And they will stop in my mother's, my grandmother's house to clean their feet and put on their shoes. They will bring my grandmother like grape, sea grapes, or they will bring her crops, land crabs, or they will bring her eggs from the turtles, or they will bring her these specialties

that are from that area that we don't have. And my grandmother, she will make their favorite soup or the favorite baccalao or whatever it was. She knew exactly it was this connection that she would have that special meal for this particular person that it was coming. And then the stories and the laugh. And it was just incredible. That's what I wanted to bring to Las Parcelas and also to Kolovo. Yeah, it reminds me of what you were saying when you said hello to the man walking by and you got to know him and his partner. Yeah, it was important because I have seen him other times and I was like, how come I, he passed by.

I don't know who they are. I would like to meet them. We could share some vegetables. And that day, I decided this is the day when I asked him, and they looked like, see too? when I got. And they were outside. I said, come in. And they told me, the one from, I forgot his name, Pedro. I believe he's Pedro. From Guatemala, he, I passed by here. And for some reason, they stop and get a bus every single day. And he said, I have been passing by this garden, admiring the garden, looking at the vegetables. But I have never, I said, but I have never I said, but now, this is your garden. I said people, this is not my garden.

This is your garden. And it was just incredible because, you know, people believe that because we speak Spanish, it's the same thing. No, it's not the same thing. Different cultures. But we were able to walk and brought him because we have many plants from Puerto Rico

and he was able to recognize each single one. The names a little bit. do you call it again and he will tell me yeah he will ask me so it was fun I took him around and now it's like I know that they passed by 2.30 and they had to catch a bus so I have the vegetables ready for them so you're like your grandmother I want to be like her and my mother my mother she was just and do you believe that my granddaughter Ariel she she has a lot from from must. My two daughters, they are nice, but they don't have that touch. They don't have that

touch. They say, mom, why are you doing this? Can you tell me more about your grandmother's cooking? Like, what were the foods that she would cook? I mean, I loved hearing that these men would bring her turtle eggs and land crabs and sea grapes. And I think hearing those examples is really helpful to paint the picture of what was happening at that time and what the food culture is like there. So what else would she cook? She will cook and it was cooking with wood, like something like the stove, the kitchen area that we have here. And I had the privilege to go with her on Saturdays to pick up the wood. And you see it's just like, oh, I don't know what will I give to have a picture because

she would take a piece of cloth and then twist it and make a donut like a circle, put it here on the head. On the head. And then she will collect, and she was teaching me, you collect this one because the pieces of wood, because this one doesn't give out a lot of smoke. This is the one that you will use to start the fire. This is the one that you will use to keep the fire going and so on.

And then she will twist it, she will wrap it, And then she will accommodate that. And then she would tell me, if you walk straight, you will keep it there. You don't need to hold it. And then you posture, it will be, you will be bien derechita, derechita. You could tell that I didn't listen to her because I'm not deregita. But it was just incredible just to be with her and learn that honestly, I don't believe that hardly any other person in my hometown was learning that.

Why? Because my grandmother was the only one that needed to cross the river to go and get this wood so she would cook. So it was a very special connection that we had. And then she would cook and open fire. It was big and her calderos, they were huge. And then she will make, let's say, white rice. And then she will make, and everything was cooked. It was not cans or anything like that.

So she had to get up very, very early to cook. And it could be red kidney beans, or it could be red kidney beans and, let's say, white beans. Two different kinds, because everybody doesn't eat the same. And the meals were very simple. It could be corn beef. We make con beef. combies with the herbs and you fry the potatoes and you add it there and it's very

tasty or it could be beef too or it could be catfish stew with potatoes and tomato sauce and all of those things and sometimes it could be a fried egg because they didn't like this and they said no no no no just fry egg and there was sauce salad because of the heat and it was a very simple meal that he was put in these containers that I have a couple of them around

three containers and there was a meal and then this man will come with the bags made out of wood in cajong and he would put that on top of his head it could be 20 different meals

it could be 24 depending on how many people were working and ordering food at that particular day. And he would carry the 20 or 25 meals in a box on his head across the river? Yeah, they have to get this little balkito, no motor or anything like that. It was this long pole, and, you know, it's like rowing. Yeah. Yeah. And where did she get the ingredients, the rice and the rice and the...

the vegetables, the beans. But you could buy that a little called Madito, a little store, Mario, was his name. And she would place an order. We knew exactly what we were eating at home every single Saturday of my life. It was white rice, bacala guizao, because by Friday, all the food was gone. So that's what she prepared for all of us. and then on sunday it was the same meal delicious meal and it would be white rice and she will buy a little bit of meat it was not only for meat it was a little bit of meat

and she will make some soup and then she would take some of the meat and she would just take it apart and she will fry potatoes and make this and she will put you the rice and then that meat and she would give you a bowl with the soup. We will sit on the floor. It was not table. We will sit on the floor and since I was labandona, you know, the older one, I will decide. You should, I talk to my brothers and we, you know, now it's fun. Because we had a lot of avuacades and you believe that we will just have so many, and it was it is delicious white rice and you mix it together with

avocado so it turns green see just plain and it turns green and then we will do it like that like a pace and then it was like just we didn't have that many things to do we have to be creative so it will be the dish and then sometimes say okay let's split that rice in half it was a circle in the plate and then here goes the rice the rice and then it was like my decision how we were going to split the rice let's split it in half let's split it in fourth now we're going to be eating from this you're like the queen I'm still I'm just kidding no you know I cannot

complain about life you know I was reading this morning a little bit of about the food and dance of course in Louisa and how in that particular community there was of course far more foods from Africa and I'm wondering if you know a little bit about that how they're similar well I grew up with one of my brothers it was these women I wish I could draw them I have them in my imagination and when I see pictures from the women of Africa. It's the same. The wrap and the way they dress,

but that was not important, so we don't have history, we don't have that many pictures. These women, it was a group of them that they will cross the river around 4.30 a.m. on Sunday, Sunday mornings, to sell this very interesting. Most of them, they would,

type of desserts from Africa and one of my brothers Eddie he will get up at that time and it was so hard to find 25 cents but he will save he will save and he will do things to people around so he will save and he will get up and go there to buy pieces of this dessert we still talk about it so So when I used to go to Puerto Rico and these women, they are disappearing. That is one of the saddened things. They are disappearing. And every time that I will come back, that was my present to people, to introduce them to this particular desert.

So one time I learned about the Leewe Foundation. and I asked them if they could fund this project, me going to Loiza and be able to meet these women and cook with them and all of these things to say yes that was incredible I got together with some of my friends and they couldn't believe that somebody would feel that this was important it was just like but what you do I say, but how they're going to? This is important. You don't see it like that, but it's extremely important.

And I was able to go and meet these women. And what I do, I introduce myself as Montserrati, Monce. They used to call my grandmother Monce's granddaughter or Wenze's grandmother, depending on the age of the person. And that opens up the conversation. I said, I would like to cook with you and this and this and that. And they say, like you didn't have anything to offer. It's sad because they have a treasure to offer that we are losing out.

So finally I explained to them that I had an stipend for them. No, no, no, no, no. You just don't know how hard it was for them. them to accept that money. I said, no, this is not my money. And this and this and this and that. And then I was able to go with them to buy the ingredients. And then I had a young lady from Luisa and she was recording. So that's what I did. Please, I would love to know the ingredients and the dishes. One of the ingredients is called Caldo Santo. And Caldo Santo is a broth.

that we eat that in Loisa one day a year is for Good Friday and of course in Puerto Rico now is changing it has changed but when I was growing up you cannot eat meat on Good Friday you have to eat fish

or catfish but you know the dry water in my hometown most of the things that these women make they are with coconuts. So they take the coconuts and they bring out the milk and you have to

put achiote and you have to put oregano brujo and peppers is this this broth and you have to fry the fish and when you fry it then you take away the spines

and then you put it together and then you add the root vegetables. You add pigeon peas, and you add pieces of the sweet potato, the one that I call it Puerto Rican, because it's the red skin. It's not the yum, it's the other one that is harder. You put the Yautilla, which is taro. You put green bananas, cut them very thinly, and you boil it.

And it's like, it's a taste. is something that you have to get used to it because it's a combination between a little bit salt, you taste salt, but you taste the sweetness together. I know that we will sit down and eat that plate and then everybody has to go to sleep because of the coconut.

It will be. But that day, Good Friday, we were not allowed to do anything around, no carpentry, nothing they have to be an emergency because he was a holiday so that is one of the plates and like in two weeks a Seltso Gonzalez the artist from Loisa he's coming and every time that he comes I make something from Loisa so he will feel at home and I think I'm gonna make a dish for him that is with about that

particular holiday and it's a white rice with coconut milk and then we take the fish and we fry the fish, we take it apart and then we make this incredible salad with pigeon peas and it has onions, ali-boer, and you mix together the fish and this mix with the pigeon piece. And it's out of this world. We are going to start some cooking lessons in in a noise square because I told Teresa, the director, that kitchen is ready. Colobot doesn't need like major things. We don't need any more at tables, we don't need benches. I think we have good with art right now.

So this garden cannot stay still. Now we are going to do that part that is what makes this garden different is the activities. and one of them that I would like to do is do some cooking classes and using that flavor of my hometown since we're talking about Puerto Rico now and I know that there's been so much

going on lately with you know after the hurricane and so much going on right now with like power outages and so on I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about what's happening now in your hometown You know, the hometown when you look at it is stable. People are going back to work. I don't see the blue tarps.

Many of the houses have been fixed. But we have another situation there. There are a lot of people from here, from the United States, and other parts, they are going to Puerto Rico, and they are buying these properties. Because remember, they flew the island to come to the United States looking for help and they left their properties you have you see all these properties that nobody's taking care of and now these in in investors investors

that's how you call them they are going to Puerto Rico and if it is a place that that I believe that they could give me 25,000 dollars for it they offer me 75 and people are getting rid of their houses without thinking where I'm going to find a house for 75,000 where and that's going to be a big problem in Puerto Rico because of these people they are taking advantage instead of saying what about if we a call off or something that they will help them fix them their home and come back to Puerto Rico. In Puerto Rico

they are working very hard in farms. It's a lot of, it's something very beautiful what is happening in our campus with especially young people. They are working hard, producing very good coffee. That was my present

this time when I went there in June. I was able to bring 10 different kinds of coffee grown and produced in Puerto Rico. That was my present. And When I gave it to my friends, it was just like, I didn't know about this. Echo in Puerto Rico, read the label, and I was extremely happy to be able to bring something non-made in China or whatever it was. In Puerto Rico, the farmers, young people are working extremely hard.

Now it's the time that they need to help people how to paint a house or fix a roof, come back. and let's use the imagination, how can they produce money so they could support their families and they don't have to come to the United States. So that's the situation there now. Dear listeners, you've made it halfway through our interview and we're about to get up from the picnic table and walk with Edie's through the garden

to see her beloved plants. And we got feedback from a true love seeds apprentice, Luce, who said, this section was a little hard to follow. So Chris will be narrating. You'll hear his voice at the beginning of each section saying the name of the plant in English, Spanish, and the scientific name when we know it. I used this book called Earth and Spirit medicinal plants and healing lore from Puerto Rico by Maria Benedetti that was given to me by former apprentices, Tanya, and Grimaldi, to find some of these names.

In the background, you'll hear bomba music from a group of children and grandchildren of Carmen Rojas, one of the group of Motivos members. And this is from a movie they made about their garden called Group of Motivos Presents, Via Africana, Colobo, Las Parcellas. So it's about those two gardens, and that's where this music is coming from. Enjoy! Well, I'm wondering if we could spend a little time walking around the gardens and hearing about the different plants that are especially Puerto Rican. The ones that are most important to you and that you'll use in those cooking classes, for example. Yeah, we are using them in cooking classes, and we are also using them to make medicines. There's a lot of people that come and get herbs for different.

pains and eggs and things like that and of course the conversation. Oregano of Puerto Rico. Oregano Pequeo. Oregano Chiquito. Lipia. Micromera. So here. You see how you grew? I do.

And you just described your grandmother cooking this one. My grandmother, you know what she used to do? She said, me, I go to the yard, the patio. And bring me some. and she will just take the piece like this what does it call it again oregano oregano we call it oregano de puerto rico if you go to cuba oregano cubano so she would take the whole thing and then she would take put in the top of the lead and it would be like five minutes and it would be toasty so this is a very small leafed

oregano compared to the oregano brujo and it's a little shrubby like woody stemmed shrub different from what we might think of as like Italian or Greek oregano and this one in Puerto Rico is a shrub years and years and years old and I remember that one time of course my mother she we brought some so she could dry it and put in barrels here and it happened that it was like the bags where the oregano was the dog sniff and they thought it was marijuana That was so embarrassing because they have to open the bags in front of everybody. Then they didn't have tape to put it back together. So we had to be and it was late.

We had to have that little bags open and everybody was looking at us. They were checking that in front of everybody. It was just like, I don't know, what are you going to do with oregano? But I'm not bringing anymore oregano. That was so embarrassing. So you were able to bring it and root it, and now you've even shared some with us, and it's thriving. This is, it was a present, and my daughter's grandfather, he moved to Florida, and he gave area of these tiny plants. And I said, I'm guessing that it's for me.

And she said, yeah, mama. So I have the plants down for about four years, but it's just, I think it's just beautiful. So you picked about three or four inches of the fresh growth And that's what you said She would put on the metal lid of the pot she was cooking To dry it out before cooking Yeah Yeah, I never saw her putting the whole thing

Without cooked without being toasted Yeah, like dry So that was a way of her drying it out instantly Avocado Aguacete Persia Americana What else would you like to tell people about? This one here is an avocado.

So all this I'm going to take, I have to take it to the greenhouse, but it's just, I think it's doing very good. So it's an avocado almost as tall as me. It's as tall as you. Well, don't compare it with me because I'm short. Papaya, lechosa, Karika papaya. This one here is papaya. And of course, all of them are for, just for, to have conversations and to tell stories growing up in Puerto Rico. Did you know you could eat the papaya leaf?

Somebody was telling me that, but I don't know how. Have you eaten it? I've tried it. When I visit this farm we work with in South Philly, oh, you met Nadeau. They eat the leaf kind of as a wrap around different things they cook in the Korean culture from Burm. My grandmother and my mother, they used to, it was not a lot of food, and they used to take the flowers of the papaya. And with the flowers, they used to make tea for the children. And when the papayas were growing, the tiny ones, they used to take them, remove the seeds, and make tea for them as milk.

So many, many different uses. Achiote, Anato, Bixar Orelana. You see this one? It was so beautiful a couple of days ago, but it was so hard, and I forgot to water it. This is Achiote, Anato. I am sad because this was gorgeous.

But I have some seats already. It's a bush in Puerto Rico. And this is what they use to color food. To milk is white and cheese is yellow. And other is the one that they use. What part of the plant? The seeds is beautiful. And the Tainos, native people, they use that for decorations, for war, for celebrations.

And also, they said, to prevent for the sun. Yeah, they used to color. And that's why they said red skins, and they were not that red in Puerto Rico. It was just the color of the achiote. And you see, I'm doing the same thing that you're doing, the cuttings of the oregano. VIX, Plectranthus, Tometosa. This one is VIX, you know VIX. VIX?

Yeah. Paper rub? Yeah. What do they call the plant? Beaks. Wow. Leren, Gopertia, Aluvia. This is something that I don't believe.

It is what it is. I was talking to a co-worker. Her name is Evelyn. And I was telling her about this tiny, it's like a potato in Puerto Rico. I was telling her. how we used to steal it from our neighbor. Well, I was like helping.

I never went in there and get it, but I will be the lookout. And it's this tiny, tiny, it's a potato, but they don't grow. And it's called L-E-R-E-N. L-E-R-E-N. And it's a vine, very thinly, very skinny. And then we would dig it.

And it was just for fun, Because honestly, you have to gather, I don't know how many, they are just like this. She sent for this, and the label, they came, and the label says, Lereni. And I told her, that's not what I'm talking about. Right. This doesn't look like a vine. It almost looks like a can of lily or a turmeric or something.

Yes. So, you know, I have not paid a lot of attention to it because this is not where I'm, This is not what I'm looking for. So you're saying Lorraine had like little like one inch round balls? Yes. Small potato. Yes. And it tastes, it doesn't have a lot of taste, honestly.

You cook it. You cook it, you boil it. Herb garden. So all these herbs, we planted them for, we were making alcalado. And alcalado is rubbing alcohol. We take the rubbing alcohol and then we put the rubbing alcohol. and then we put different herbs accordingly if you want it for arthritis or if you want it to repair mosquitoes whatever it is so and this is where people

come and get and I learn more and sometimes they bring me pieces of what they have so we share so I see different mints a variegated mint maybe a peppermint lavender sage Small leaf thyme. We have some... turmeric? Yeah, turmeric. And there we have some ginger.

And of course, oregano brujo. Yucca. Casaba. Maniolt Esculenta. This is the yucca. Casava. I like this one because it has the red stem. We have two.

We have one. that is just regular and the red stem I think it's more attractive but it tastes the same and this one I bring the pieces from Puerto Rico this one is one year old I had to put it back in the greenhouse so I'm not expecting any to eat any Juka but it's just again for us to to tell stories to hear stories yeah mother of millions Colancho Degremont. Ha! You have that one.

I do. I think I got it from you. Yeah. Yeah. And you see? Look, this was one. Remember that I told you that it's going to be long and beautiful, this orange flower that is just beautiful. And it will last like a month and a half in wintertime.

So now we have all of these babies. You see them here? What do you call this one? This one. We don't call it anything. I know it's succulent, but we don't call it anything in Puerto Rico. When I brought, when people, my friends saw me getting some of that plants, you're crazy or something.

This is because you see it everywhere, but I have never seen a flowering in Puerto Rico. No. And I think we call this one Mother of Millions. Mother of Million. They have all these little babies along the edges of the leaf. Each leaf has, you know, maybe a couple dozen babies. That's a good name for it. That's a good name.

And then each one you can put in the soil and it'll grow. Yeah. Rue. Ruda. Ruta Gravelines. So we have Ruda. And Ruda, I remember my grandmother, she used to take a gourd and make a whole. leave everything in there, the seats and everything, and she will put rum, and then she will put

other herbs, but Ruda was one of them, and then she will put the cover back, and she will put that in the earth for about six weeks, and then she will shake it, she would put it in little bottles and women that didn't have children they will come and they will drink that and then she we see and they say that it was because they clean that how do you how would you call it that medicine that they made it will clean their uterus and they will bring children wow I never heard that That's awesome. We call it rue, but ruda.

La ruda. Basel, albaca, osimum, basilicum. And of course, the basal, I learned how to eat basal. It was like, how do you eat that? And now I love to make the pestle. And I just eat it. When I am hot, I just take, and I just keep on eating the tomato. And I pretend that I'm eating olive oil.

But in Puerto Rico, we just used it for medicinal purposes. When I came here, it was just like, you have a fever, the doctors will prescribe cold water or to put ice or whatever. We were like, why, you're going to kill that person? And because in Puerto Rico is the opposite, you have the fever and they will take albacca and they will take Saucco.

I have not seen Saucco in many, many years, But Saucco and all their plants that my grandmother used to send me and get and she would boil them. And then you have to stand still and they will put it down. It will be warm and you have to stay still and it will go down. Pour it on top of your head. Yeah, all the way down. Warm. And then they will wrap you.

You start sweating. So here is the opposite. the opposite. It's all external like a hot basil and other herbs. Yeah. So here is, so imagine when you put some, some eyes, you're going to kill that person. Lemongrass, limonchillo, simbocon citratus. We, we use this one especially. Lemongrass? See, we got a limoncillo. And we use this like I learned side food and whatever. They They use this for cooking. We use this just for tea and especially when you are catching a cold.

They make tea of this and they give you aspirin or something like that. It was for us. It was good. Oja de Bruja, life plant, calancho, penatum. This one is Oja de Bruja. And the Oja de Bruja is the same. as the one that you call mother of millions because he has it gets all these babies around and in the farms the farmers they don't like this is it's a

weed for them because if you throw it it will grow a leaf it will it will grow so for for us it's medicine is good the teaful blood, high blood pressure. And also when you have earache, you take one leaf and you clean it and you put on top of the stove. And you see when it's getting warm, it's changing the colors and then you squeeze the liquid in your ear and you cover with a, it could be a piece of bathroom tissue or cotton. And it's going to get better. Guanabana, Salasar, Anona, Murikata. This one here, you know what Guanabana is?

I think it's called sour, something. It's fruit green, and it has like spikes, but it's just tender. And the flesh is very soft, and it's white inside, and it has this black, lots of seeds. In Puerto Rico, they make... They make tea of this, and they believe that this is very good for cancer. And people, they are bringing the leaves from Puerto Rico every time that they go there. Dandelion.

I wanted to plant this one. This is not from Puerto Rico, the dandelion, but I wanted to plant some to, to start telling my friends how good it is. Plantain, Jantene, Plantago Major. I did the same thing with plantain. We call it Jantene. I put it back there because in Puerto Rico we do have Jantan, but a very tiny plant is $1.50. And I said, you don't need to, you don't have to do that.

You could have a tiny space and the seeds and you will have all this Jantan. They do use a lot of Jantene. Plantain in Puerto Rue. go for you know gout they use it for that they use it for the stomach they use it for cancer so oja de brouja so you see I only put few leaves here of this one and you see how many babies we have oh ha de brujo of the brouha I think it's just beautiful and when when I was little we used to take one

leaf and put a string and put it anywhere and it was that It's amazing for us to see the babies growing without water. All the roots that come down. Yeah, because, you know, it has liquid. Krapao, Thai holy basil, Ochimum, Specier. This one here is my daughter. She has a friend from Filipina

and he went there for an emergency with his father and he gave, he sent me this, me this type of basil with my daughter and what I'm hoping is that I could get the seeds he sent it to me about three weeks ago and I'm hoping that I could save seeds it looks like what we're what we call what we call Krapau from Thailand I know they eat it in many countries but I'm not sure if it's the same one how do You call it? Krapau.

Yeah, there's a red one and what they call a white one, the green. Oh, so it could be the, it's the same plants? And you have a red and a green here. They look just like it to me. Our friend Heidi brought them to our farm from Thailand. Do you have seeds? I do. I'll share them with you.

Okay. Yuka. And again, look at the beauty. The Yuka. You see how nice it looks. Very red, bright, bright red. bright, bright red. It does.

That is. I have never seen the red one, and then my, one of my cousins, just I have something special for you. This is their second year, which I am surprised, because every year I have to send, I send them, you know what I send them the money, and they will send me the courtings if I can get there to Puerto Rico, and that's how I was getting the cassava. But it's almost, well, two summers. And now you can take your own cuttings?

I could take my own cuttings. It's still skinny, but you see how the size of the cuttings that they were much thicker. But I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna try. Pigeon peas, agi dulce, tobacco. We have the pigeon peas, and now we are getting,

and he dulces for the tobacco. And my family said, but you don't smoke, but we could use tobacco in other ways. And just to tell stories. And you mentioned the pigeon peas and the peppers and the recipes you were describing. How do you use them now? Believe it or not, I'm going to show you a trick.

Pigeon peas, gandules, Gajanus Cajun. You take one of these. A leaf. Well, you see this is very soft, right? Mm-hmm. You believe that in the morning we didn't have a toothbrush, we didn't have tooth base.

And I, we know already the routine, we will go and get a leaf, and then you do with your teeth, with your tongue, feel your teeth. Mm-hmm. And then you take this and you scrub them. And these are the gondulose leaves, the pigeon peas. The gondolet leaves. Oh it's soft.

And then you do the same back with your tongue. Hmm. And then you will go and get some mint. Mint Menta Piperita And here you go.

You brush your teeth. So I do, I remember that my grandmother taught me that. And when we have groups of children, that's what I do. I teach them how to brush their teeth. Wow. Wow. So they get to meet your grandmother through you? Yeah.

I know there are many other women from my hometown. Very humble, but they were strong. Oh, my grandmother, she was just my height. But I think I was one of the more adriveda, because I knew that her love for me was, so I will be the one that I will play with her in a way that nobody else was able to do that. And now my granddaughter, Ariel, she does that to me.

And then mother said, we were not allowed to do that. We couldn't say that. Oregano Brujo Spanish time Colius and Boinikus You see the size of the oregano It shows like, oh my goodness So this one you call

Oregano Brujo is very good, very tasty You just cut it thinly And it will disappear I don't have to smash or anything it will disappear and this one is the other one it's the same but this one is variegated they variegated and it's just beautiful right you shared that one with me too it's just beautiful right it's got the green a couple types of green and then white edges sometimes it's half the leaf is white and then there's some pink in the little stems yeah it's just

beautiful and people come every time that people come see you know that they know that they are getting something because that is that's why we are gardener to share ornamental sweet potato I love the sweet potato vines in all colors but this is the way put some cuttings you see yeah there's it's a bird bath with water in it and you have this the cuttings of the sweet potatoes and the colias and they're already rooting yeah so like that I will put it if another plant is dying or that gives me the opportunity to share with other people. Xenias

Xenia elegance This is my first time I'm planting zinias from seeds I just threw them in there Oh, they're beautiful. Oh, isn't that gorgeous? One lady, she had a plant of zinias there, like a couple of them and then she never came back and I saw the seeds and I asked is the lady coming back

no we don't know what happened to her and I'll say well I'm going to collect the seeds and I did and just so I started collecting them already from here because it's like yeah they're cool they're really interesting varieties with these petals and the colors kind of squiggly long petals, yeah, beautiful. Incredible. Yellows and oranges and pinks. And here's an African plant. Black eye peas.

Frihold de Carita. Vigna Unwickulata. Yeah, this is the area for Africa. And this year we didn't have the many, but last year, Greg, he was planting the peanuts. And he had

He had peanuts and he had something else. But this year the weather it has been too crazy. This one I planted not a lot ago and is going to get some peas. Black IPs, do you know where these ones came from? From Puerto Rico. Oh, okay. Because it's a lady that she lived there and she gave me like three what I am on vine?

Pats. And I was able to... And I was able to harvest a lot of them, and then I gave her some of the fruit, and she was so happy. Yeah. What color seeds do these ones have? Those are almost the color of the pot. Okay. Oh, and you eat them fresh.

You shell them fresh? We shelved them fresh, and then we let them dry also to make rice, and we make soup. Cleome? Cleome Hasleriana And this Cleome I'm collecting seeds already

It's beautiful And you know We met a couple Different Kenyan growers Who they eat A type of cliomi That's not as ornamental It's much smaller

And the leaves are smaller But it's a very bitter leaf From Kenya Oh wow I think this one might not be eaten But it's a close relative That we grow For Kenyan

growers in the U.S. to grow. Castor igereta Richinos communis. How about the castor beans? Ah Zah in Puerto Rico we don't have this color

but it grows wild and I learn here that it's poisonous but my grandmother she will take the leaf she will cut it and when you have pain you know back pain or on your back on your neck she will put it could be big it could be any ointment that you put in there and then she warmed this up and she would put it there a big warm leaf of the caster plant mm-hmm and then she would take a piece of material and she

would tie it there and it worked and then she will take this and she would caught it the stem and she will cut it in little pieces it was funny because we were walking around with this and then she would take a string you see it's hollow she would put a string through and then she would make like a necklace and she would put it around your neck. It was either she put this or she put this. I prefer this one because he was like a necklace. I think, I thought it would look pretty at it.

I've been working around with a leaf around you. But this is what she used to. I know this lady, she's from the Dominican Republic, that she used to ask me for all of the seats. so she will make castor oil but I never saw her making it

she will come and collect the leaves so in Puerto Rico that you didn't have like the reddish leaves no just green and it grows everywhere

but it's not as pretty as this one I love the castor bean it's just coconut cocoa Cocos Nuchifera.

This is my cooking area. See all the coconut shells? Well, that was one of my mother's, my grandmother's treasures. And remember that I mentioned to you that we use coconuts for everything. Like the American people say, if you have lemons, you make lemonade. Well, in my hometown, we have coconuts. To the point, you know, each town they will call it. them something else. Our nickname is Los Come and Coconocators. We have this. It's just beautiful to go this route, I think it's 187, from San Juan to Loisa, if you want to go to the rainforest and you take that route. It's just this palm tree is beautiful, beautiful, and then the Atlantic Ocean with all this color.

It's just incredible, beautiful. And we make the coconut oil. We make all kinds of candies. We make all kinds of foods. They used the oils for the lamps. It was not electricity. So even for the skin to grow your hair. I mean, they have made coconut.

We have to. to it was nothing else coconut and fish and turtles and crab meat that's what it is I learned that in Puerto Rico you know that part there that it has the piece of metal and the grill underneath yeah underneath the coconut that particular piece is called a B-U-R-E-N and I read read that in Puerto Rico, in many, many towns, they had Burenes. Because that came from the Chinos, the native people. But they were made out of clay.

So then when they introduced the Africans, the Africans they knew already about metal back in Africa. So they came, they brought them, so they could work specifically on the production of sugar. And the Europeans, they had machinery. For some reason, they don't know how the burence changed from clay to marrow. And they had this route, in many towns in Puerto Rico

where they were making this food in that particular way. For some reason, the only town where you find that it's in my hometown, the burenne. And I wanted to have a buren. And that's the type of meal that I went to Puerto Rico, except for the caldo santo that is cooked in this area here. Practically all of the other dishes that I, I'm not going to say that I learned,

because I will like to take at least to have to have the opportunity at least one more time to cook with these women that now we have about three of them and the generation their daughters they are old and the granddaughters and great-granddaughters they are not interested in learning it would take people from here to say this is this we need to preserve this I would like to have that opportunity again to do it again and it would be good with a small group of people because whatever I don't learn then the next person perhaps and we then put it together but most they cook on top of that the Buren and the food

most of the food is with coconut and then it's wrapped in banana leaf coconut nuts, cassava, achote, anato, the crammed meats. Those are most of the ingredients, the sweet potato and the taro. And then the spices, the oregano brujo, the oregano chiquito. But those, it's like a Mexican with the tortillas. That's so they have done, they have invented, created that tortilla that is just, it blows my mind, all of the dishes. So in my hometown is these ingredients that they put them together and they don't taste the same. Nothing.

Each one, it has a texture and the smell and the flavor unique. so and it's done on that area that particular one there that is a that was an artisan I am calling him an artisan he used to make them for the people we didn't have like I said electricity

we didn't have a stove it was no gas like now we have gas you buy a container of gas or you have electric stove, but at that time it was, you will cook in something like this. And this is fancy. This is very fancy compared to the one my grandmother had. But this particular one here is called an an aphre.

And it was this man, Nito, he's dead. He has been dead for many, many, many years. And I asked him to make two. One for me and one for Tomazita. And I mailed them to, from Puerto Rico. Do you believe that I was so excited when Tomasita saw it, thinking that she knew what it was? She didn't.

She's from Ponzi. And she, I never saw her using it. And they saw her talking about it. And they never saw her excited about it. And because she's from Ponzi. But here I have used. it and you see it's pure beauty I want to show you this who is Tomasita I mean I know who she is Thomasita Thomasita was and she still is I feel I feel her

she's my sister we I met Tomaita the beginning of the gardens we I was there in the gardens about I'm gonna say seven years or so when I met her. And we became partners, we became friends, we became sisters. We were together from many, many, many years, from around 9.30, all the way to, it could be 10. We had visitors in the next day. We were working there nighttime. People used to feed us, and she died. And this, you say the name again of this stove. this column an afre and you see everything that parrilla and this is where you put your pieces of wood or coconut and then the ashes will come down it sits on top of it

you put the wood in the basket on top it's a metal basket and then this is just a can of lard in Puerto Rico we didn't have oils and we use lard and in my hometown coconut oil but it was not like now corn oil or whatever oil so this was a can of flour that people will buy it and it will last them for a while and also they were using the lard from a pig from the skin and all that so the can they will use them to make the anafre and to make other things but this is what it is

so you will put your pot in there the pot sits up in the same basket as the wood in the coconut shell and then sometimes I need a little paringita like he has something else on top so this will stay put

so it's not sitting right on the fire yeah So, and this is what it is. So you make do with what you have. Exactly. And this oven even has, it looks like a gate from a door, an iron gate from a door as the grate. That's what it is. We have to purchase this because of the size of this.

Because of how fancy and large it is. Oh, this is fancy. Yeah, you know, it's like, I am in heaven. The base looks like bricks, like cement bricks. Yeah, my brick. brother put it together for us and underneath is your collection of sticks or do you know which ones make the most smoke no no because I honestly I don't know I have to be asking again and again the name of the trees I didn't have time I

am a kind kind of a gardener that didn't have time to sit down and learn it was do is working okay it's not working but I didn't have time to study so I am absolutely they absolutely not good with names of things but we used to cook and then it was one lady she lived there she started complaining about the smoke but my two sons, they have firefighters. And I said, will you come here and tell us? So one of my sons, he came with his supervisor and he took pictures, he measured, and he said, I will give you an answer tomorrow. And he looked in books and books and he gave me one tiny paragraph. I said, you could cook as much as you want. You know, you are good.

I don't want to bother my neighbors. So now I'm learning how to cook with charcoal, which is a different story for me. Because this type of charcoal, you see, I'm learning. But I had these branches that I don't know their names, but I had them under control. I learned in how long they will last and I knew that it was time for me to add more. I had that under control, but now with the charcoal, it's a different, something else that I need to learn.

And speaking of neighbors, I know that you all have been here a long time and also that the neighborhood is changing very quickly. I'm wondering how that's affecting you and your work. It just makes me sad. And it's not that I don't welcome the new people, our new neighbors. It's not that I think, I believe that it should have been done in a different way that people that we have been here for so many years. if you wanted to stay, that they would find ways for us to stay. All of these construction, $450,000 or more, they get 10 years tax-free.

My daughter, that she has been struggling with depression and things like that, her tax in a very tiny house in the 20-100 block of Palford is 1,000. $800 per year. So how do you understand that? If we need repairs, well, you need to choose between paying the interest or paying the utilities or repairing your house. That means that it's going to be, the damages are going to be more every year. You cannot afford to do both. So how is that? I believe in Puerto Rico when I was growing up, it was a the government, they have something, it was called a co-op, cooperativa. And I found some pictures yesterday about the co-op.

And it was just, let's pretend that this is an empty space. And it was decided that they were going to build 10 houses. The government will bring the money. And they will bring, let's say, one carpenter. But the people was the one. helpers and it will be they would choose a number let's say that it was my house and you and ten more the other nine people they have to help build a first house and I have to help building my own house and then my

compromise was to help build the other nine co-op and everybody ended up with the same house, everything was figured out in a way that it was equal. And those houses then later on, you could add more, you could paint a house any color. It was your property. But all of them, they looked the same. It was equal. But here it's not. Like, you know, we have people there, I don't know who they are.

because it's not important to them to meet us. It's important to them that the L is near, that they could bike to Center City, but I have nothing. Let me correct that because they have two houses here and both of the people that live in these two houses, they are very friendly. They are very friendly.

To the point that one of them he planted this, in a container in front of his house and they die and I told my sister I think you know I'm tempted to go there and surprise him put some sweet potato vine and then the other day my yeah my sister said to me when are you going to plant that because he passed by hi hi how are you doing and my sister said when are you going to plant the sweet potato vine and I told her I think I should Well, I'm wondering, too, like, I know that one of your gardens was disrupted by some of the new development. Yeah, it's called a battery. And our gardens, each one of them, is dedicated to parts of our history.

And now it's declared. It's written down the board just approved a couple of months ago that these gardens, they are going to be preserved at Puerto Rican gardens. I am extremely happy, extremely happy because more than ever since the community is changing and we have newcomers, even if each one of us, Puerto Ricans have to move from the neighborhood, I believe that they are going to stay. This is going to be forever, that they cannot change, and it's good, they're going to be Puerto Rican gardens. But yeah, they destroyed the garden and they did it in a way that it was very sneaky.

December 23rd. Like most of the people are ready to go on vacation and I had a dentist appointment. When I was passing by, I said, but what's going on over there? Teresa was in back. Everybody was on vacation. And what's going on over there? And I asked my daughter to stop so I could take pictures, she's the mother. you're going to be late for the appointment. I said, well, but then when we come back, you leave me here.

I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I took pictures. And I am not good with the telephone or sending pictures or anything, but something got into me that I was able to send pictures to Teresa. I think she was in Vermont. And she was like, what? And she started sending pictures to the board members.

And it was just like, nobody. know that these people have destroyed the garden. There are two gardens in one. One is 15 feet and the other one is 18. And they took 15 feet from one side of the garden. They put a fence. They took down a raised bed. It's like a garcebo type of thing, a hut that we used that for educational purposes. That was almost hanging. and it was this big hole full of water and it was the soil and you could see we were afraid that all that was going to collapse and they have to get a lawyer we had meetings it was not ours but we Norie Square was a helped with mural arts to

create a particular mural with Salvador Gonzales from Cuba You know, we got involved. We cooked for Salvador Gonzalez when he came. You know, we were involved in the mural. So the mural was very important to us also. The bills is incredible ugly. This is ugly. It's long.

And they just put the aluminum siding in gray. Of course, they cannot have any windows on the side of the garden. side of the garden, so it's just long. The mural, they just left, what is this? 36, like 48 inches, or let's say 60 inches, which I don't know anything about carpentry, I don't know anything about laws, properties,

I don't know anything about it, but for me, not knowing anything, it is wrong. because this is the only entrance, and I believe they have five or six apartments. And it's this long, narrow hallway that they have to bring the furniture. And I said, well, the only furniture that they could bring is from IKEA.

Because it's coming back. But it's just ridiculous in case of a fire. How these people are going to be able to come out, all of them at the same place. It's just, I don't know how they were able to get permits. And they have been working in these properties. And so far they are not doing any good whatsoever. So now, what came out of that, it was the USDA gave Norwich Square,

had given Norway Square a grant. And we were supposed to produce 300 pounds of vegetables. And we couldn't do it. And it was panicked, like, how are we going to do? You know, they're going to ask for the money. It was just, you know, I don't know it's lifting up. And we were like wary. We were counting on that money.

And we were able to build beds in here and start planting in here for some of the 300 pounds. And they were able to understand. And now we have this beautiful, beautiful, beautiful design. I was able to work with Professor Dominic Vitello from UPenn and his students. And we got together and it was for me and other amazing experience to explain to them the flavor of this new garden. The flavor is going to be the Tainos, educational and beauty and all of those things together.

and we have a carpenter that's going to give us a quote and we are excited congratulations that's a big deal too to preserve these spaces that are so central to the culture of this neighborhood thank you and thank you for this interview and thank you for your friendship i'm i'm so honored to know you and to be in community with you and to trade plants and seeds and ideas with you thank you so much i feel the same way you are in my heart I feel the same way thank you

thank you thank you thank you so much to Signora Edith Brown and thank you for listening and sharing this episode of seeds and their people with your loved ones

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act of true love for our ancestors and our collective future. Take good care. Blessings. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.