Seeds And Their People - EP. 25: Black Farming Vibes in the Delta: Three Wise Men

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

While visiting Greenville, Mississippi, we asked farmer and food justice elder Mama D (our mother, Ms. Demalda Newsome) to co-produce an episode about the farmers of the Delta. This is the first of multiple episodes about Black Farming Vibes in the Delta, we hope!    FEATURING: 7:26 - Ms. Demalda Newsome interviews Kevion Devanté Young, CTE Diversified Agriculture instructor (Leland, MS) 23:21 - Owen Taylor interviews Mr. Rufus Newsome, Newsome Community Farms, Greenville, MS 49:20 - Owen and our son Bryan record animal sounds and talk about the surrounding farm fields, Greenville, MS 54:05 - Rufus and Demalda Newsome interview Mr. Elgin Johnson, farmer and wood seller in Greenville, MS   SEED AND PLANT STORIES TOLD IN THIS EPISODE: Carolina Broadleaf Mustard Turnip Greens Collard Greens Mississippi Purple Hull Peas Mississippi Silver Hull Crowder Peas Cow Horn Okra Speckled Brown Butter Bean   MORE INFO FROM THIS EPISODE: Kevion Devanté (Linktree) Rufus and Demalda Newsome on Seeds and their People, episode 4, February 2020 Newsome Community Farm on YouTube, 2008 Newsome Community Farm (in Tulsa, OK), Guardian article, 2016 Visit Mr. Elgin Johnson for greens and firewood on Highway 1 at Short Irene in Greenville, MS. ABOUT: Seeds And Their People is a radio show where we feature seed stories told by the people who truly love them. Hosted by Owen Taylor of Truelove Seeds and Chris Bolden-Newsome of Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden. trueloveseeds.com/blogs/satpradio   FIND OWEN HERE: Truelove Seeds Facebook  |  Instagram  |  Twitter   FIND CHRIS HERE: Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden   THANKS TO: Demalda Newsome for coproducing, cohosting, and interviewing Rufus Newsome for interviewing and being interviewed Kevion Devanté and Elgin Johnson for being interviewed Bryan for helping Owen with editing ideas during animal noise section

I was just whacking it normal. Welcome back to Seeds and their people. I'm Chris Bolden Newsom, farmer and co-director at Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram's Garden in sunny Southwest Philadelphia. And I'm your host today, along with my co-host. Mama Dee. And we are coming to. you from the Mississippi Delta. We are in the car to Memphis for the airport, so you'll hear

some ambient car noises. You'll also sort of hear the sound of the wind rushing through Mississippi. Well, who are we talking to today, Mommy? So we're going to be talking to Mr. Elgin Johnson, who is a firewood seller, and also he raises greens, all types of greens on his patch of land. We will also be talking to Kibiyan Young, who is a farmer educator here in Leland, Mississippi, and also a wealth of knowledge on a lot of subjects, especially growing food and working with youth. We'll also be talking to my husband, Rufus Newson. Well, I'm very excited because we're going to be highlighting these gentlemen from the Mississippi Delta who are just a wealth of history and knowledge in themselves, but also because we're going to be putting a spotlight on the Mississippi Delta. And that doesn't happen that often outside of talking about the blues and maybe barbecue.

So we're very excited to delve into some of the wonderful and, as I said, often untold story of black. Mississippi agricultural life in these modern days. So this weekend, mommy, this was Thanksgiving weekend or Thanksgiving weekend however you want to think of it. Of course we had a lot of our traditional foods and of course Brian our son was able to go out and walk out in the Mississippi woods and harvest pecanes the way we used to when we were young and generations before us used to. The food that we ate this weekend, can you tell folks a little bit about what was some of the particular Mississippi specialties that we had, the foods that were on our table that

might not be found in other parts of the country, certainly, or the world? Okay, so one of the things that we got to eat was some of Mr. Elgin's Greens, and they were pulled straight from his patch. And we took him home, cleaned them up, which was a whole family adventure. We included the youth in that. My husband went out and bought the young people together and showed them how to clean a whole bunch of greens at one time. So it was done in tubs in the front yard. And it was just really beautiful. And also we had, I made a chauch of greens. We had made it especially for Thanksgiving a few weeks back, and it was from the last of the harvest that my husband grew the green tomatoes, the bell peppers for it, the onions, the garlic, all of the ingredients that went into making the cha-cha, which we eat that with our traditional greens, which are musters and turnips here, not so much collard greens as there are. in other places that

other African-American groups eat, which is not one of our traditional greens. But we did have some mixed into the cha-cha, an homage of some of our ancestors that were

part of that group that ate collard greens. Also, our honey that came from our farm, my husband and I are beekeepers, but he tends to the bees. And so we had honey on the table continuously. We had fresh chicken eggs from one of our neighbors.

I think we ordered probably about seven dozen eggs for the weekend, which was not something we would usually do. And I'm trying to think of some other thing. We actually did have pecans, and they were from our property, as well as one of our neighbor's properties. Some folks would be surprised to hear my mother say that collard greens were not on our table except in a little bit chopped up in the chow chow chow by the way for folks not familiar and folks not from the south is a traditional relish that we use. But as she said, it's everything that's left over after the end of the harvest as winter is coming on. And so, you know, we eat that with greens, we eat that with beans and with meat and different things too.

It's just another way to get extra vegetables and fiber into our system. And it's one of the traditional ways that folks kept in good health while enjoying the delicious food that the South is so famous for. And those pecans as well went into two delicious pecan pies that we made. I also wanted to mention we grew sweet potatoes so we used the sweet potatoes where we made sweet potato pie oh we had several pies that were made by our daughter Ariana and I'm telling you they were magnificent they absolutely were if I have to definitely tip my hat to her for those potato pies so yeah so those were some of the Mississippi delights that we had and what was beautiful and powerful about them is that they came right from the field, like mommy said.

And they came right from our field or from the field of our neighbors, which is traditionally how people around here would eat for holidays and big gatherings. And we certainly had a lot of family in town and had a good time praying and singing and eating and just relaxing in our native soil, in the soil where our grandparents and great-grandparents

and great-great-grandparents are buried. So it was a wonderful time, and we hope that you all enjoy and soak up some of the spiritual residue of that from these wonderful interviews that we do with these fine gentlemen of the Delta. Okay, y'all, so in this interview, we'll be hearing from Demelda Bolden Newsom, my mother, and she'll be interviewing Kivion, Devante Young. Please listen, and I hope you enjoy. Hello, this is Demelda Newsom here in Greenville, Mississippi, and today we're going to have a conversation with our brother, Kevian Young. Let me have him to introduce himself to you. Hey, my name's Kevian Devante Young. I am an agriculture instructor here.

I teach a diversify agriculture course here in Leland, Mississippi, among other things. But I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Okay. So, Kyvian, tell us a little bit about you. I'm a musician. I really want to start with that. You know, we're here in the birthplace of America's Music, Mississippi. So me being a musician is really how I got into all of nature and natural works, because understanding even instrumentation and natural sounds create music and harmony. So I'm a musician. I do different sound bath workshops and events with my music. shamanistic practice. Crystal Ray Key. I teach here. Then I do modeling. I'm a freelance graphic

designer and I do a little creative directing on the side. So it's like a plethora of the arts, but really, you know, science is my main background. I really started working with food when I came back to Mississippi and actually joined Food Corps, the organization out of Portland, Oregon. I served with them for about three years and really getting into what people actually eat and giving them the chance to try organic foods that were grown in the local environment and just giving them that experience. That was my first step into food. And now I'm actually, you know, teaching this course here in Lila. So in teaching organic practices, was it receptive to the community or was that a challenge? I challenge. And you know why? Because we have this ancestral trauma

that we deal with within the industry of agriculture, I think, no, it was not, it was not receptive. I had, you know, it was strange. It was weird for them. So how did you begin to introduce it to the community that you were working with? Was it through the youth or was it directly to the community as all? Through the youth. It was, you know, picking their brains enough, you know, they still have their imagination, not like many of us. that grow older. Getting them to tap into the wonder of nature. So having different tidbits of,

you know, wow, do you see this seed, you know, look how big it got. You know, do you know the whole plant is in the seed right now and just little bits of fun facts? And it, and it kind of became cool because it's like, oh, that's different. You know, everyone likes to be different. So that, that's what, that was my spending. It really implemented, you know, making it a part of my style. They see the different things I wear they made out of different stones and earth elements yeah even like this weather so it's just like always

it's always happening so was that like your whole presence something different for them you know because I'm thinking you know here I am in Mississippi and you are you know very unique in the way you dress and

just kind of where you walk you know walk in the world yeah tell me about that So I would have credited that to my musicianship because most people see me, they're like, you look like a musician, you dress, yeah. And it's really taken in the culture of it, you know, in terms of understanding the different elements that intertwine in us, like the reflective part of it, where, you know, your presence does speak. So what you wear can speak for, you know, your experience and the path that, you know, you know, we all know how important it is to present yourself. So for me, I present my life within how I move, whether it's my beard or my earrings or whatever else, it all has meaning. So then my life becomes more meaningful and then that just translates to others.

Oh, great. Great. Now, I know also that you're quite a traveler. Your international travels, how do they impact you, the work that you do right now? Oh, greatly. Really, when I had to... the chance to study abroad in Kazakhstan. Mind you, I actually established that program. I was the first American to study at the second oldest university in Kazakhstan is the ninth largest country in the world. And it's fairly young country, but that was historical because I established the academic mobility program between the HBCU here in Mississippi Valley State and West Kazakhstan State University. And over there, I studied biochemistry, analytical chemistry, ecology, Russian, of course, because I had to know how to speak to people.

And that was a cultural experience and taking in different ways of life and understanding everything that I knew about my reality was called something different. You know, it was a different vibration of sorts. So even over there, I started my yoga journey, you know, ironically in Asia. Yeah, it opened me up into understanding that the science is an art. Like, it's art and science. I was just passionate student biologist and trying to figure out why am I a musician, too. How does this kind of weird?

Most people choose. And my whole life I never could choose. So it was the merging at that point between spirit and science. Now, you were speaking about the vibrations. Can you talk a little bit more about that, you know, how it differs at different points in your life? Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny because we always say, how's the way. vibe, it's surviving, you know, that's a familiar word in society today, but everything is vibration.

You know, going back to the principles of music, you have where the opera singer sings and she breaks the glass, her voice matches the pitch of that physical object and that's holding those molecules together. So that became a dramatic thing for me in my life then because I'm like, oh, wow, everything, every color, every physical object, every emotion, every thought is a vibration. And that was, you know, very significant to me as a musician because now it governed how I play my life. Now I want to tell you my encounter with the youth that you work with, now I kind of better understand that the vibration that you put off, it has impacted those youth. I see that they're calm and they're just real helpful. Yeah. Yeah, they just have. have that spirit of servitude and and patience and you know just visiting there and it was like

I don't know miniature me aware you know people that are just all the way aware of their surroundings and me being an elder I mean I felt that and I have to say that you probably contributed to that greatly because the regular youth aren't like the you few weren't at all I always try to remind them how special they are to actually have the privates to, you know, take this time to study and understand this level of knowledge before they get out into the world. And with me being able to reflect and relate with them on an interpersonal level, you know, the mindfulness of teaching is about connecting with the person as they are, not as you want them to be. So I know what I want them to be, but that's not what they are. So I don't get lost in, you know, the journey. Yeah, I feel that.

Mm-hmm. You know, I'll tell you, I'm one of the people that's real thankful that you're working with the next generation to change some and break some of the barriers that have been there for success for our next generation, you know. Just having them touching the earth and understand everything around them, I just commend you. Thank you. It's just internal, external environment. Yeah, it's environment. Like I teach, so the course that I teach is what the program is called diversified agriculture.

But it's four classes in the program. So it starts with the principles of intro to agroscience where we get into agrovisions, entrepreneurship, plants, animals, different projects, creative works called SAE, supervised agriculture experience, FFA, you know, future farmers of America originally, but now it's future for all because, you know, it's bigger than farming because our agriculture. is not just farming. So that course you got after that we go into plants one, going to the physiology of really that kingdom as it relates to ours going into environmental science. And the last course is agriculture mechanics where we go into small engine welding electricity. So I'm teaching them from the ground up, from the seed to the soil to the robots. And it really just like an integrative class of life because it's a circle. Can you tell me a little bit of how you came to do this work?

Sort of your history of dealing with food. So when I was in Kazakhstan, back to that part, when I did that scientific research over there, I studied the blood indices of herd for the cattle, and I did soil and water testing in different regions. So I went around to different water sources and soil sources tested that. And I also went out to this rural farmland where I did a scientific analysis on how healthy the cattle were because they weren't in factory farms. So, you know, me shooting myself in the foot, I was like, oh, yeah, America's factory farms are better. You know, I know. So I'm like, you know, let me prove myself wrong because that looks good.

That looks better, you know. And so when I got into presenting that information to the ministry of science, in Kazakhstan at an ecological conference. That research led me back to the capital here in Jackson, Mississippi, where I spoke again about this research at the Rotunda. And the IHL commissioner at the time sent me to work with USDA in plant pathology with Dr. Susan Lee. It was really like emerging of what I studied into the application of my experience.

So I want to go back, you know, further than that. Like when you were a child, you know, like how did you, because it seems like it had to be something that peaked when you were younger. Yeah. So can you tell us about that, your family and how, maybe all of that? Some kids are into video games and shoes and some kids are into butterflies and ladybugs. Which one was I? So I was really spending time outside, especially at my grandma Lila's house. You know, that's the daughter of my great-grandmother, Maku, the one that I mentioned in one of my,

recent articles. She was raising different animals, dogs, and plants, you know. And so, and she lived at the time when I was coming up, she lived in front of some woods. The woods were behind her in the backyard. So from burning and understanding the process of that conservation of matter and energy can't be, you know, created, short, untransferred and seeing things being transferred into the fire and just the application of nature and being able to talk to the trees, sea shapes in the sky. So it was that wonder of my childhood that I really never felt like wasn't real. It was like, yeah, I talked to that tree. I'll tell anybody, oh, yeah, when I was, I talked to that tree. And we did all of these things together. And so I kept that.

Yeah. Now, you're also a really good cook out here. Great cook for my understanding. I think I could have credit that to merely the change in my diet. I'm a vegetarian. I've been vegetarian for like seven to eight years now. So trying different recipes and understanding different textures and plants and spices. So I'm good now. They're really good, yeah. So you had a big sweet potato festival.

Yeah, they look really interesting. And give us a clue of what all happened in. So there, I actually kind of enhanced. inherited the position of hosting that Sweet Potato Fest, not by, you know, family, but really more by occupation because that was actually originally established by Delta Health Alliance with Delta Eats. A guy called Ryan Betts, he started it. So when I came into Food Corps, you know, there were some changing the commands, people, you know, changing different positions and things. And Delta Health Alliance had, at that point, ended their partnership and as long,

as well as Food Corps. So I just kept it going. And it really, We just had the sixth annual one, and it was great. We had a taste test there where we get the chance to actually experience sweet potato greens, and a lot of people don't really know what that is or have. Don't know what it looks like, never tried it. Even the process of growing sweet potatoes, most people didn't know, oh, wow, I got to dig him out of the ground. Like, yeah, it's the root. You know, it's like, wow, people go through this much for sweet potatoes.

But then understanding the connections of the land again and the importance of how it connects to your body, the nutrition, we go through all that. I really kind of kept it going because with the communities suffering from different things like high blood pressure and diabetes and everything up for source. You know, when we eat more organic and natural and more connected to the land that we live on, we thrive. Wow. What seed, would you say, tells your story? Hmm. And also tells the story of this community that we're in.

I really want to choose okra. Only because I've been working with it so well. And then, you know, you're at Delta State and the okra. And it's just one of those symbols of home. Like, no matter where I see in the okra, I'm like, oh, yeah, Mississippi Delta. I'm home. Yeah. And for the community, collard greens or a mustard seed.

Those two seeds significantly, you know, even a turn-up. You know, just those resonate with the community. We, you know, any time of the year, we're going to eat greens. you know and we live in a green land greenville yeah okay i get that one that was good okay so is it any particular other foods that you know really resonate with with your spirit and your vibe that you like to eat or i have to choose onions onions because it's just layers there's so many layers yeah and because i'm so multiverse and everything that i do yeah The onion. Because it's sometimes, and it makes people cry. And, you know, sometimes people don't like the taste of it, but it's good for you.

Yeah. Yeah. It would be sharp or sweet. Yeah. I get that. I love that. Yeah. Okay. Well, we thank you again so much. You know. I really, really honored the time that you've given us to do this interview. And pray continued blessings on your life. Thank you. Love you. I love you too. Thank you. Okay, y'all, so in this interview, we'll be hearing from Mr. Rufus Newsom Sr., my dad, a farmer, in Greenville, Mississippi.

Now, you will hear me being referred to as Ruhamel. And so when you hear Ruhamel, they're talking about me, Chris. It's my middle name, the second name that my father and mother gave me. It's a combination between Rufus and Demelda. That's who Owen is talking about when you hear him refer to me. South, oftentimes we use middle names or nicknames as our common way we were talking to people. Okay, I'm sitting here with my father-in-law, Mr. Rufus Newsom, can you say what you're doing? Oh, yeah, what I'm doing, I'm cleaning mustard greens. And I have this large container here on the ground,

it's full of water, and a small amount of soap. So what I'm doing, I'm cleaning mustard greens. So what I'm I did, I dumped the greens in the container, ran water, and just a drop of soap and mixed it together just to remove some of the dirt off the greens and off. What I'm doing now, I'm rinsing the greens and putting them in a container and we're about to cooking when this is done. These are broad leaves, mustard green, huge leaves, you know, and delicious too. I love the stem to remain on mines when they're being cooked. Because a lot of people don't want the stem.

They think the stem is tough and all. But these greens are tender and all because we've had a cool. The past two weeks, it's been pretty cool, so the stems are really nice and they're soft. Once they're cooked, they're delicious. Are you growing any greens right now? Yes, we are. We're growing musters, turners, kale, and collars. on another portion of land that we're raising on.

And here at the house, we're growing collage, and they're coming along pretty good. Greens love cool weather, and so the weather's cool, so they're really growing. And leaves are really wide and thick and just delicious when they're cooked. Where's this other portion of land? The other portion is on the north side of town.

It is land that was given to us. us to farm more by another group that stopped about a year ago and so we decided we took it over and we've been on it for the past what year and a half now and this is in greenville Mississippi how long have you been back here we've been back in greenville for the past I think five years now I've been five years since we've returned we're in Tulsa Oklahoma for about 33 34 years This year would be my wife and our 48 anniversary. And I promised her 40 years ago before we left her, that I would bring her back here to her parents.

Well, about two years until the retirement, all the old folks passed on. And so the next two years, once I retired, we packed up and we came back. I kept my promise to her. How does it feel to be back? Wonderful. Just feel wonderful to be back in your answer. back in your ancestry land to see sites that when you're a boy you roam those areas

and all and see some of the fruit trees that was here when we were here some 40 years ago and and of course to meet people that you knew for years that we knew years ago and they're still here and when we left rainbow some 30 years ago there was over 50,000 people here the economy was good booming businesses everywhere jobs. It was really, really a nice place to live. But now, um, the economy is low. Businesses left. Um, there are small businesses here, basis there, uh, paid minimum wage and all. It's really tough for family to survive on medium wage, wages. Can you kind of paint the picture of like where we are sitting right now?

And what's, what's, the, um, area like? Okay, here, this is our home. Um, um, We have like a four-bedroom dwelling home here, just north of the city of Greenville. I'm sorry, south. A nice area, really nice and quiet a night. Trees everywhere. The community that we live in is a quite unique community. Before we moved here, we never knew that it is this.

Of course, during that time, some 30, 40 years ago, blacks weren't allowed in this area. here they will live in them. And now things have changed. There's mixed families here and everybody tends to go home quite well. So when you were coming up in Greenville, it was very segregated, right, by law? Yeah, it was segregated by law.

But gradually, Greenville improved compared to other towns and cities in the state. Greenville was still one of the black hubs of Mississippi, political-wise, economic wise and social wise so all those years in Tulsa is that where you first started you know farming your own land oh no we've been farming for years my mother my grandmother I didn't know my grandfather my grandmother raised crops I can remember her garden like it was yesterday my mother raised crops we've always

raised crops as far as I can remember and go back Can you describe your grandmother's garden? Oh, I can remember this large collard tree. It was about four feet tall. And it seemed like it was there forever in a garden. And we were picked from it to like all year round. But most of it was during the fall month, the cooler month, it grew even more. And there were always a fresh supply of collard greens to eat at our home.

You know, Ramelle is very, um, proud of the muster green and the turnip green. He doesn't consider collard greens and ancestral green, but it sounds like it was a big part of your life growing up. It was, but you know what? I can remember more of the collard green than the mustard greens, though. And we've always loved both, though. But I guess because of my grandmother and that large collard tree, I can remember it more than the musk green. But I'm sure we did. We also, we planted mustard greens because I remember he didn't want to must green, along with corn bread, sweet potatoes that we grew, corn, peas, beans, we grew all that. And I can't remember that. Besides the greens, you mentioned peas and beans. Can you say

what else was growing in these gardens, your grandmothers, your mothers? We grew watermelon. We grew spinach. We grew squash and cucumbers. I recall when I was small during harvest time, with my and the grandma was picked the peas, I would make a fire and I would go find a can, like a can that mom had just opened, I guess it was a peach can. I remember it was peaches, large yellow, delicious sweet peaches. I would take that can and go inside the house and wash it out with soap and water. And I'd already had my fire made. So during the harvest time, I'll also go by and pick the peas and corn and, and, and, and, you know, cut the corn from the corn stalk and mix it with the peas and all and set it on the fire and just sit there and watch it cook and so once it was done I was remove and I went and got my fork a spoon whatever seasoning and seasoning and then I ate that it was how old were you I was about 10 11 years old I think maybe even younger though they probably younger than that uh-huh yeah and also I can recall uncles the men's getting together butchering pigs and

And they were butchered a pitch and pick and cut it up. And I recall cutting some of the skin off myself and sticking it on a stick and roasting the meat over the flame there. But you had your own little world with the fire. You make your own food for yourself. Yes, I have my own little world. Yeah, and I enjoy it. I consider that my camping part.

I was a boy scout already. And that was part of my skills that learned as a boy scout. Yeah. Back I recall going camping in the woods, the sister was there and some other other kids from the neighborhood. And I would go out and make my fire and we would go to the store and buy, like, canned winnie's and all and pork and beans. And we'll go out camping right in the back of our home there. That was a high school and there was a forest back there. So we'll go out in the forest and make a fire inside the forest there and cook those things that we had precious from the store.

And we just had a really good time. What were your jobs in the garden, either your grandmothers or your mother's garden? My job was to pick to, you know, pull up the grass and all. The idea is a lot of horn also, hoeing, chopping the grass and pulling it and pulling dirt up to the plant and things like that. You didn't do any harvesting or processing? Oh, yes, I did. I did a lot of harvesting, you know, picking the peas of corn and tomatoes, and okra. Oh, yeah, okra and sweet potatoes.

I can call my mother, show me how to store the sweet potatoes during the winter time. She would dig a hole in the ground about maybe two or three feet deep and get a layer of straw and drop it there. And get the potatoes and drop the potatoes on top of the straw and put another layer of straw and put more potatoes in there and put another layer and cover it up for the winter. So we had sweet potatoes all year long and they didn't spoil. the animals didn't eat them up or anything so we wanted potatoes she was my mom was sending me outside and go out there and I think I had like a piece of board covering the hole there and I would just go out and remove that little board and remove the straw and pull out four or five good size sweet potatoes

were there any other foods stored this way you could have stored ice was white potatoes that way also but I don't remember we didn't grow a lot of ice and We sure didn't. I think they were like cheap. They were cheaper than sweet potatoes. I think we always had plain of that. Mm-hmm. We all lived together during that time.

My grandmother lived with us with my siblings and all. And she would go out and I would have break the gardens up with a shovel. He had shovel. We didn't have the tractor, a dish, and something like that. And it was too expensive to hire someone to do it. So we did it ourselves. We broke the ground up by ourselves with shovels and all. shovels and all my brothers and sisters and would dig up the ground and set the rows and

plant our crop but at an early age I planted crops just by watching them what they what they would do so you had a plot separate from theirs as at an early age no it wasn't separate I would just plant between what they had already planted yes I like how I keep asking questions about you yourself and it's always answer about you as a family i like that it's not like you did just separate thing it was always with the family it wasn't separate no at all not at all go out and pick fruit from the trees and bring that home but now it's hard even find fruit trees and all compared to they were plentiful during that time the uh uh the late 60s early 70s now you could find a piece tree a parrot tree a plum tree and just go and start picking off it and just

eating the fruit right there but now it's it's they're not plentful at all um you can hardly find a fruit tree but there are still a few pear trees because they're a little more hardier than the than the peach or the palms and all but it's just not plentful as they were years ago can you tell us about the farm that you had in Oklahoma and what were you all doing there that we lived on a five acre farm in Oklahoma right outside the city It was outside the city, but I was still in the town, had a city mailing address. And we live on this five acres there, and I'll tell you, we grew all sorts of vegetables. Fruit trees, we had plum trees, peach trees, pear trees, apple trees, and they produce abundant in the fruit.

We had a huge two-acre garden. We planted sweet potatoes, ice potatoes, corn, tomato, peas, beans, okra, squires, beets, of course, mustard greens, turner green. Uh-huh. There's just a variety of vegetables we grill. I had a farmer's market right there on our property. In fact, we were the first farmer at Oklahoma to have an active farmer's market right on the farm

where the vegetables and fruit was grown. Our mission was to have supplies the community with healthy and nutritious food. Of course, we were a farmer's market and we sold a really not-for-profit. We got donations in our home and people. Of course, to replenish our seed supply and all that. But basically, it was good, cheap food.

I mean, what I mean by cheap, and it's money-wise, it was not that expensive compared to the store. Our products were better than what the store carried. We didn't use any pesticide, herbicide, prongercise on our guard. like I always tell the people I like the bugs eat a few and then we would take the rest that's what I'd like to say on my farm let it let everybody else eat too the bugs the birds the animals yeah that's what we and that's what happened on our farm yeah and we

also had cooking demonstrations on the farm because a lot of our customers weren't familiar with a lot of type food how to cook it especially squash and we had my wife and mother we had look picking advice outside the propane stove where she would demonstrate on how to cook certain vegetables and all that it was very rewarding people really enjoyed it too you also had a lot of animals oh yeah we did we raised goats chicken duck turkeys guineas geese and at one time we raised pigs also and we had cattle at uh uh uh time or two. And I heard you say you want to get goats again.

Can you talk about why goats are so special to you? Oh, yeah. We love goats and all. Of course, goat's milk is next to mother's milk, very nutritious and delicious and all. Because the goats are out there eating all those nutritious herbs and all that we need to survive on. The milk is delicious. And we sold ghost milk at a very reasonable price.

And a lot of our customers really love that it was raw milk. We sold as raw, and we just could not produce enough. Oh, we used, of course, for drinking, cooking, bathing. We would bathe our daughters when they were really young, like an infant. We bathed them in the tub and goats and milk because at the beginning there was plenty. There was plenty of it, not before we started to sell it, so we had plenty. So we did that, and we'll give it away to people. People that had newborn babies will come by, and we give it something to them,

for the babies and all. Goat smiths is good for their skin and all. We have to nourish their skin and all. Keep it healthy and bright. They're energetic, yeah. It's just wonderful. And so you're going to have goats here someday? Yeah, we're starting, yeah, we're in the process right now.

I'm starting over again raising goats and all, yeah, basically for the milk because there's people in the area that really desire ghost milk. And right now, of course, I know there's no one raising goats. It's a private need. And the grocery stores around here doesn't sell it either. You may find it sometime in some of the store, maybe a Walmart in the can, but the can go smith is not like fresh milk that you make the record on the farm, on the goat. And then you do have bees here. Oh, yes, yeah.

We've been raising bees for 20 years now. We started in Oklahoma, one high, and prior to leaving, we had about 15 hires. and we harvest twice a year. That's very unusual. But we harvest twice a year. What does it take to be successful as a beekeeper? What does it take to develop a good relationship with your bees? Well, I'll tell you what.

When you say you want to be a beekeeper, that's not just a notion now. This is a full job, basically. 24 hours a day, you have to be checking on your hides and making sure things are right and proper. and you want to check the entrance and all and make sure the bees are in and out and there's no stoppage up there. You just have to be there all the time

every day and just checking things. Not that you're going inside the hive, but just on the outside, checking the grounds and all that and making sure the fences are secure. There are several creatures like animals that love honey, bears and like skunks,

and they love the bees themselves, about the hunting they will come out and feed on the bees and all and so you want to check and make sure that you guys say you're fencing on there your fencing is secure and that the bees are still flying in and out uh-huh even during the winter time you want to check and make sure that you know there's activity and all when it's really cold when i can't get inside the hide i just put my ear to the hide and listen for the sound or the buzzing in all so it's there it's strong sound that's what you want to hear when you're listening there I went over yesterday and put my ear to the hives, and it sounded so nice.

Can you describe what it sounds like? Oh, it's just a buzzing sound, you're knowing that the bee, the hide is healthy, and the queen is there alive and all, and there's a little strange noises inside, being made, and that's the bee, that's the queen bee making those noises and all. Basically, she's talking to the bees and all. That's how I get it. Do you ever talk to the bees? I talk to the bees all the time.

with the bees. I pray with the bees. I sing with the bees and all because their God gift to us. They produce that golden treasure that we love, we call honey. God gave us these wonderful insects, the only insects that produce food for humans. And I don't know if you can ever tame bees or not, but I do believe they recognize you, though, when you go there to check. I really believe they do and yeah so we're continuing we continue to do that and uh talking to them singing to them praying with them asking god to sustain them that they continue to sustain them that they continue would produce that golden treasure for us well my last question if you don't mind i know you're done with the greens is just that we're surrounded by a whole different kind of agriculture right now

Like I'm literally looking at a field behind us that is just a completely different approach. And I'm wondering if you can describe that dominant kind of, at least the way it looks. It looks like it's mostly different kind of farming around here than what you're describing. Well, yes, it. And our home, we live here. There's a flat portion in the north, the southern section of the city. And we're in a floodplain. Most of all the Delta is floodplain.

And so we're surrounded about four fields. Our home is surrounded by four fields. Cotton is planted, cotton, corn, and soybean. And these crops are rotated each year. And once the harvest is harvest during the fall, the farmers go in, goes in, and then they diss up the field and set the rolls up, preparing for the next harvest season.

And you'll start planting around February of March, mark, yeah. Notice now, if you could see what we're seeing right now, the four fields, they're clean, the rolls are up, You don't see a specker piece of grass at all. It is so clean. And that's because of the chemicals that are used to destroy the weeds, the herbicides that are used to destroy the weeds and do a good job at it all.

So the fields are just perfectly clean during the summertime. You hardly see any weeds at all. And that really bothers me when I don't see weeds in a field. That tells me that whatever kills the weed, apparently the harvest is also absorbing them and I guess it's taking a little time before we get to us yeah yeah it's surprising I thought they must be about to plant with how clean it was but it just stays that clean for half a year it seems like before they plant again yes oh yeah very much so even when

the plant is up for growth it's still clean I can recall as a boy going to the field and chopping basically we were hired to chop cotton weeds from a around the cotton and uh and Johnson weed would be almost four to five 50 feet tall I can recall that and it was embedded there in the in the in the in the car and the tractor couldn't get in there and do anything so they hired labor to do it and I can recall just chopping weeds weeds weed weed but now there's hardly ever any uh there are still choppers you know farmers still hired choppers to do like on the outside the perimeter the

perimeter side of the field the top weeds and on but as a whole no chopping weeds from cotton is just thing of the past because of the grass killers and all that the farmers are used to destroy that part of it. Wow. So it's changed so much in 40, 50 years that now the landscape doesn't have people in it mostly? It has changed the whole lot, yeah. And I guess, I hope it's for the good, I hope so anyway, because I know that insects are a plant for it and they can really take over feel along with the weeds and all too. So I guess most of the farmers instead of just trying to do it the natural way and it would be

really expensive also without using the chemicals to suppress the insects and in the weeds. To me it's really telling though that you know after growing up in this landscape that you and your family have always focused on diversified organic agriculture. Always, yeah, we're always playing a variety of recipes and fruit. And when I grew up, I don't recall it knowing anything about the pesticide. And as I said, we never used it. But I do recall other family, other people, using the seven dust. It's been around forever.

But we never used that. And even on the farm in Oklahoma, like when we were harvards our greens, almost midsummer, they were hos and all in from the outside. And people said, I don't want things. I said, why not? Look all the holes. It just, it just shows you that the worms, they know on it, and there's nothing on there. It's not any pesticide that we use in there to destroy them. So the greens are perfect way of my father that better than, these are better than ones you would buy at the store that are fully greens and not wholly.

The holes are kind of like a five-star Yelp review from the Caterpillar. It's like the Caterpillar gave it its, you know, star of approval. Yeah, oh, surely, that's right. say this is great this is great yeah we're gonna feed on it so you can't too i've even heard that that triggers a response in the leaf to resist caterpillars that actually creates healthy uh compounds for us oh i didn't know that that's wonderful though i agree with it too yeah i agree with that and i grew up keeping a garden and i had elders you know in my community that gave me seven dust gave me a miracle grow and i used it because i didn't i didn't know any better it was only

later that i that i learned and it's it's awesome to me that you you all never even used it yeah we never used it even my grandpa he he was a active gardener and for sure he i mean he did it all he set out trees and all and everything and i never and had a nice garden in his backyard i never saw him use uh seven dust anything yeah just horse manure that he would bring in and uh mixed with the saw well thank you i and thank you for inspiring one of my favorite farmers, Rommel, to do what you do. You know, he's really followed in your footsteps. And I know that the way that you've lived, which has mirrored the way your predecessors lived, has really impacted him and shaped his work in the world. And now it's

our collective work. And I just want to thank you for that. Well, I thank you too. And I can remember his grandmother, he was four or five years old. She would take him out in the garden and all. And he would help her chop weeds and all. And I think even picked some of the the fruit from the garden. Yeah. So he's been doing this quite a while, and we're so proud of him. And he's continuing to work with our grandchild also. And we just hope we'll continue on.

You know he will. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, y'all. So in this piece, you're going to be hearing from Brian, our son, and Owen, and they're going to be describing the big open crop field across the street from our house and recording animal and other sounds from the natural world in beautiful. for Greenville, Mississippi.

Brian, can you say what we recorded? What sounds people are going to hear? We recorded a blue jay. Well, a lot of birds. That should be a crow and a tweed, tweed, should be a robin. There's a white-throated. Sparrow, there is a robin and there's a blue jay. I knew it.

A blue jay is related to a crow. You know that? Wait, so there is a blue jay? Mm-hmm. Um, we recorded a donkey and a horse chewing. Oh, I got to. Squeezy. Thanks, horsies.

Thanks, horses. And a donkey. We recorded a chicken and a rooster. And we recorded some kids. These. Antimbs and some bees. Antumbias. We recorded with a spear by death throwing down at the river some sticks.

That's pretty good. Your turn. Hmm. Let me hold your hat. Thank you. Brian, what do you see out there? Um, I see some dried plants and I just saw a bird fly bow. Come on, let's see. What do you think they do over there?

I don't know. Maybe. Relax. Maybe make their sounds. Not the birds. What do you think people do over here? I don't know. In that field, in that field with the dirt. Oh, they plant stuff. Like what?

Like maybe tobacco. Cotton. Tobacco, cotton. Those are great guesses. What else do you think? Um, soybeans. Uh-huh. What else? I don't know. I think that's all.

Delivery chop. UPS. Okay, what other plants do people plant that much of that's in such a big space? Corn. That's right. Your Pop Pop told me they plant cotton, tobacco, I mean not tobacco, cotton, corn, and soybeans there. On rotation, not all at the same time. You were right.

And a lot of people plant tobacco and big, fields like that but not not here oh so i got one wrong and three right yeah that was really good how far do you think that is how big that is that field guessing like 100 miles 200 something yeah i don't know about 100 miles but it sure is big what about 15 i'm gonna guess that we're looking like like to the far edge of the field, I'm going to guess it's like two miles away.

No, 20. It has to be. 2.0. Okay, maybe. All right. Nice talking to you, Brian. Hey, you talk to me all the time. Not talking to y'all, my mates. Nice talking to y'all.

All you listeners. Love you. Winking. Hey, that's what I say. Okay, you say it. In this interview, you're going to hear from my parents, Rufus and Demelda Newsom, and they're sitting down with Mr. Elgin. They're going to be talking to him about his work as a firewood seller and as a greens farmer

for the entire community of Greenville, Mississippi. What's very surprising to me is I didn't know him, even though he lives not far from where I grew up in Greenville. So take a listen and I hope you enjoy. Can you, uh, maybe, can we get the wood to pop in and put that sound? You want to hear the sounds? Okay. I hope it doesn't burn my mic. Hello everybody. This is Mama Dee. And we're coming to you from Greenville, Mississippi. talking to Mr. Johnson, his name is Elgin Johnson, and he grows greens, I mean lots of greens. Also, he does wood, he sells firewood, but I'm going to let him tell you a little bit about himself.

So can you introduce yourself, Mr. Johnson? Yes. My name is Elgin Johnson. I was born and raised here in Greenville, Mississippi. I've been here all my life. And it's like a family thing with the firewood. We started, actually my uncle brought tracks of land of woods. And we thought we're going to get somebody coming to harvest the wood.

So he brought us the equipment, and we started doing firewood. And this was back in, I'd say, 74, 75. And we paid our way through college by selling firewood up until today. It was eight boys in the family. And we had a family farm that growed sorbians, cotton, and rice. So a certain time of year, everything we would call it lay by. The crop has made what it's going to do, getting ready to harvest. So we'd just be laying around doing nothing.

So he came with the idea he bought these tracks of land that we was going to clear out to make for farm land. So we started cutting firewood out of hardwood, oak, pecun, ash, hickory. and start selling, producing for five wood for the community. Mr. Johnson, how? I'm Rufus Sneelso, Momaday's husband. Such an honor, pleasure to meet you. I know you, but you may not know me. I know your family members also.

But over 34 years ago, we moved away from Greenville and moved to Tulsa, and we farm there. Matter of fact, we did, I did a little wood chopping also, and we did garden, and we had a farmer's market. But I can remember he, right at this very spot that you all sold firewood. Back in the 70s, I can remember when I came this far north in Greenville, I remember seeing the wood pile up out here

and people coming by and bond. And I also can remember the mustard greens in the garden. They were so beautiful and the leaves was so broad and I always admired this piece of land. Now, the other family, are any other family members involved in the cutting and all and selling it? Yes, they have four brothers

And we are a partnership into the business. And we brought it from an axe up until law slitters and wood processors now. So we have a wood processor that we put the wood in and it processes the wood into small pieces. Then we could produce, I'd say a quart of wood in about a half a day. But now we had the modern technology now

that we can reduce five cores of wood in three hours. How wonderful, how wonderful. Yes, yes. So was it a challenge to learn about which woods work best for different things like barbecuing? You would use different woods. And if you're doing a fireplace or a pit. Yes, my uncle, he taught us all of that, how to go out and select the trees. You have red oak, white oak, red pecan, and vanilla becon.

And I would say back in the day, how they smoked their own meat. They used certain woods to smoke the meat. And that's where the flavor came from from the smoke. So he told us how to identify the wood, how to cut it, was not to cut, what to save for later on. And we do produce cooking wood. Well, we have a wood good for barbecue. We call it the Shaggy Bark-Pacon.

It's in the Hickory family, but it's always a nut. And like I mentioned earlier, you got a bitter nut and a sweet nut. So they give you a flavor like a smoke flavor in your wood. We also have hickory, which give you a light taste on your barbecue hill. And we sell to several local barbecue restaurants, and a lot of them got sicker recipes where they would take several woods and mix together and get their own flavor. These are all hardwoods too. Am I correct, Mr. Johnson? Yes, sir, you're correct. They're all hardwoods. And a hardwood take a long time to a produce.

So that's why my dad will go out and select trees for us to cut. So tell us a little bit about your greens patch. And it's beautiful. Tell us about that. Well, in the greens patch, I grow the mustards, southern mustards, the Florida broadleaf mustard, the southern collards. And we also have like a tender mustard. It's more in the mustard fernard, but it's more a tender leaf. And we grow the purple bottom turnips.

And here in the depth, we have a rich soil. We have different soil in different areas of the delta. You got your sandy loom, your buckloom, and we've got this we call a clay's buckshot. And now I'm growing in a clay's buckshot, which don't take much water, but it get real hot and the ground would crack open. So that must be a real big challenge in growing your greens, or you've got a system down now for it? Well, I have a watering system out in the garden to water. But once the earth starts cracking, it takes more water in and the ground. So what we do, we try to get started early.

We prepare the earth, keep it till. We add rice huts to help hold the soil loose so the green root can have room to grow. Because your clay soil is so compacted, it'd be hard for the root to grow. Where do you get the rice husk? And how did you come about that? Because I've never heard of doing it like that. Okay, I worked in the rice facility for 25. years and there we will take it when shelled the rice and that that'd be a

byproduct off of the rice we should have a few-fired boiler that they would take it and burn the rice for fuel and the plant energy steam but they went from that went to modern gas boiler so it was just they was just taking it to the landfill so I developed a way where I can get some and put in the garden and I did a test plot where we took it and we tilted in with the buckshot and it made it more looser so we can get a good root base on our vegetables. My dad always wants to add sand to the soil, but like I say, the clay will get dry and it's around August, crack open and take the sand, and the sand will be gone. So we started using the rice hubs, which would stay there with

the soil to help keep loose from compacting. That's interesting, Mr. Johnson, too, of not only it happen with the loosening up the soil. I also fertilize the ground there once that decomposed. And that decomposed material was loosen that soil up in our weather. And you're very correct too because if that soil is so tight, the root system doesn't have anywhere to go. And so if you can't get nourishment from the soil, you've got to die. Good idea. No one else about even thought about that but you. That's what I'm thinking too. Yeah. And just the idea of it, not all of that going into the landfill or somewhere else, you found a way to use that byproduct to really make this productive. So how do the customers know about you? How do you get the word out? I don't do any kind of

advertising. My dad used to plant the greens to help the community. Certain people don't like a store-bought green because it's grown kind of like in a greenhouse, self-contained. But this green is really grown from the earth. And they've taken all your nutrients from the earth. And we try to stay organic as possible, you know, less chemicals because it take effect on your body. And you're doing that right here in Greenville. And I would venture to say most people don't even realize that you're helping to keep the community healthy by just the process of the way you do your things, your greens and all of that. And then a knowledge base you have of your wood business. I just tell you, I'm really in awe of all that you're doing.

So have you passed it down to the next generation, like your other family members under you? So I have three sisters, only have two nephews. One is going to Alcorn State now for agriculture. So he would be like the family backbone to carry on. But he wanted to actually do cotton research. Yes. So he's going for cotton research. And hopefully he will pick up the family farm and keep the little thing going here to help the community,

the greens. We also plant sweet corn, purple-hub peas, speckle butter beans, in the spring of the year, and also a spring green. You can get the same mustard green I got here planted now to germinate in the spring because it's a cool weather crop. We chose no particular crop because it's a basically crop in the delta that people love to eat at a certain time of year. And a certain time of year, they're going to look for those purple-hulled peas, those speckle butter beans, and especially around holidays turnip mustard collars greens it's like a holiday tradition of family tradition to get together everybody want their greens and everybody got a secret how they cook their greens so you have families competing about who greens taste the best

so they're locally grown they come here and we prepare it for them and they go home and break on their cooking some people use you know different things into different spices like red peppers crushed pepper and Some family members use, I don't know if you understand the terminology of cha-cha. Yes, they love that and they're greens, so it's a different thing for the family. See, we moved away from Greenville some 40 years ago, but we're back now. But while in Oklahoma, at certain times of the year, my body craves certain foods from the south. Even though I'm 800 miles away from here, my body is craving sweet potatoes, butter bean, purple oil, cornbread,

mustard green, turner green, collard green. Even though we do eat, we eat those in Oklahoma, but at a certain year, it's even stronger like this time of the year. Even back in Oklahoma, this time of the year, my body would crave all those type food simply because we grew up on those food. My mother and grandmother cooked those type food. I can recall seeing them in the kitchen,

and the aroma and all just as if I was back in time, Even at six years old, I could smell that aroma as if they were cooking it right there. So are you planting everything here at this particular spot? Or do you have another spot that you're doing the peas and the corn? We have another spot we do the peas and corn. So we plant acres of that. And they'd be harvested and sent to the market. So you sell that commercially, the corn and the peas?

or just the same way that you do the greens here? It's the same way we do the greens. Once the harvests are coming in and harvest the grain, the people come in and buy the vegetables, buy the crates and stuff like that. Why did you decide that you wanted to go organic? Well, actually, my grandmom, she was against pesticides, harsh pesticides.

In her garden, she has a little thing where she would use, like, coffee grinds, eggshells, or a little dish, washing detergent to spray on a plant, a mist on the plant to keep the bugs off. And it had a good taste. Yes. And she would also use like the banana peelings and pear peelings to put back into the soil to help fertilize it. And the greens we have nine to one that we don't harvest, we tealed back into the soil. So we put the nutrients back into the soil from the plant that we're growing.

Speaking of mustard greens, the mustard grain picks the flavor up from the root. And it all starts in the preparation of your soil. A good seed bed produce a good fruit, a good vegetable, and your taste comes through your stalk into the leaves. So I convince some customers to don't throw your stalks away. Take them, make a pace, and put it back into your green. You put in more flavor. So did you learn all of this on your own about, I mean, because this is deep?

Actually, I worked at a rice facility for 25 years, and that was basically got rice, but I used the same technology as the rice fields, the rice beds to prepare the gardens. And that's so true, and that comes from your background, your training. And we have a grand daughter, she's 12, what, 13 now, and she comes and visit with us during the summer here.

And she worked with us this summer in the fields and all, and yeah, and I know you, You can relate with me on this. Back then, back in the day, once they didn't have tractors and have distance, but we had to break the ground up with shelves and all. Can you relate to that? I can relate to far as the back that my grandmother would have this guy to come by with a team of mirrors that would repair the garden.

And he'd walk him behind him with things, you know, talking to him. And he would say certain things he, yo-ho, and the mirror would turn and go the way he wanted to go. But we all have to get out and break those clods up for it to get the guard prepared with a hose, forks, yeah, shovels like that, and also set the rows up. Yes. And I think when you were a child there, you watch your parents do all this and going back to my granddaughter. The same thing, I just showed her what to do. I turned my back, and when I turned back around, she had two rows set up already, ready for plenty.

And I said to myself, how did you learn this? Papa, I just want you. And Ms. Johnson, my whole family was farmers. They've been farmers for centuries, you know. And so my sister always said, well, that's natural for us. Yes, it is. I came from a farming family background, too. I know there's a scripture that the earth shall teach you.

And it seems like you've really learned what the earth had to teach you. Like you were open to that, you know. Well, I love outdoors. Yes, I kind of picked a lot of stuff up from my grandmom, my aunts, because they had, like, led gardens and stuff. So one of the other things I want to ask you about is when the greens go to sea, what do you do? Do you save your seeds or do you sell the seeds?

How does that work for you? We use like a reproduction process. When the green, you're going to go to seeds, it's going to put on a flower. And from a flower, we'll call it, you get it. the fruit which produced the seed. And once it does that and your flowers turn brown and your seed be within a pod. So we would take those and harvest those and take it

and we put it in like a barrel so we can air out and dry. And in March, with the wind blowing, for my grandma the trick, we were taking and put it on the tarp and we would pop the tarp and the wind would blow all the huffs. off the seeds and we have the seeds I love that process compared to the machines they have not to do that you did all that the natural way you save your seeds for that next year to be to plant and this is what a lot of people are doing right now uh say so they saved their seeds

and they share these seeds with other farmers and all at no cost at all and that's what savers do uh do you all share your certain your seeds with uh with some of the customers that asks customers come by and want to know how to grow a grain the green got a mature to date from 30 to 45 days and as you matured to date the green goes until we call like a state of dormancy and they start putting on the seeds and I tell them to come by grab some take it home and sit in your window and let the sun dry it out and you have your seeds even on the peas and butter beans especially okra yeah we grow a longhorn okra and you can use that seed year after year but you have to keep it where the we call it the iphons won't get in

and eat the seed so not actually like using the chemical to treat it you can keep in a control environment where you know keep the bugs out of miss johns how can other listeners around the country find out about your story and and the way that you grow your crops and how can we reach you for those who like to talk to you visit you on those subject okay so we have a process area we process the wood and also across from the processing area we grow the greens so we're located in greenville mississippi uh highway one north and we be here seven days a week great thank you so much so you heard it here highway number one in greenville mississippi and the cross street is short irene so mr johnson i tell you what we we are so honored and and thankful that you share to

your time and your, and your thoughts with us, knowing your growing procedure, and you share with us things that we didn't know, especially about type woods and all, and we're very grateful that you allowed us to come here, sat here, and you tell us, you teach us the way that your family produce crops and the way that you all save your seeds and all that, and we thank you so much. All right, thank you all. again to Kivian Young, Mommy, Daddy, and Mr. Elgin Johnson. A special thanks to Mama Dee for co-hosting and co-producing this episode with us. It was such a pleasure, and I hope it was not the only time.

And to our son, Brian, for helping you record and edit his Animal Noise section. And thank you for listening and sharing this episode of Seeds and Their People with your loved ones. Thank you also for supporting our seedkeeping and storytelling work by all. ordering seeds, t-shirts, and more from our website. Trueloveseeds.com. And again, please sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com slash true love seeds. Your support keeps the episodes coming. And remember, keeping seeds is an act of true love for our ancestors and our collective future.

Happy holy days.