Seeds And Their People - Ep. 7: Karen Farmers from Burma

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

This episode features four interviews with Karen farmers from the mountains of the Karen state of Burma (Myanmar) who spent roughly a decade in Thai refugee camps before resettling in South Philadelphia. They now grow their traditional crops at Novick Urban Farm. The Karen way with food plants was key to their survival and joy while living in the center of a civil war; then again while hiding in the jungle and escaping to Thailand, biding time in the tight quarters of refugee camps; and today, farming and foraging here in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Their heirloom vegetables and traditional foods have become a lifeline, a heartstring, a refuge, and a delicious portal home.   SEED STORIES TOLD IN THIS EPISODE: White Flowering Mustard (Rat-Tail Radish) Lemon-Drop Spilanthes Green Pumpkin Eggplant (Ka) White Garden Egg (Eggplant) Chin Baung (Burmese Roselle Leaf) Dark Pea Eggplant (Ta Kaw Ka Tha)   MORE INFO FROM THIS EPISODE: Interviewees: Naw Doh, Hte Da Win, Hser Ku, and Tay Aye, Karen farmers from Burma, at Novick Community Farm Memories of Myanmar: Article Owen wrote in Mother Earth Gardener, May 2020, from the original interview [PDF] Novick Urban Farm: novickurbanfarm.org/community/ Novick Urban Farm at Truelove Seeds Novick Urban Farm on Instagram: @novickurbanfarm Novick Urban Farm on Facebook Southeast by Southeast, Mural Arts   ABOUT: Seeds And Their People is a radio show where we feature seed stories told by the people who truly love them. Hosted by Owen Taylor of Truelove Seeds and Chris Bolden-Newsome of Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden. trueloveseeds.com/blogs/satpradio   SUPPORT OUR PATREON! Become a monthly Patreon supporter! This will better allow us to take the time to record, edit, and share seed stories like these.   FIND OWEN HERE: Truelove Seeds Facebook  |  Tumblr  |  Instagram  |  Twitter   FIND CHRIS HERE: Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden   THANKS TO: Naw Doh Hte Da Win Hser Ku Tay Aye (Hte Da Win's mom) Adam Forbes Jess Renninger Ally Schonfeld Clara Varadi-True Novick Brothers Corporation Southeast by Southeast Maebh Aguilar Sara Taylor

Where you carry the sea, you had to carry the earth and become good. So anyway, like you go to the Thailand, right, you bring. And you go to the United States, right, bring with the sea. Not only sea, you have to bring with the earth. You have to carry. I was just whacking at normal. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness.

Welcome back to Seeds and Their People. I'm Chris Bowden-Nusom, farmer and co-director at Sankofer Community Farm at Bartram's Garden in sunny southwest Philadelphia. And I'm Owen Taylor, seed keeper and farmer at True Love Seeds. It's a seed company offering culturally important seeds grown by farmers committed to cultural preservation, food sovereignty, and sustainable agriculture. This podcast is supported by True Love Seeds. And we are starting a Patreon. so that you too can help support our seedkeeping and storytelling work. See the show notes for the Patreon link and become a monthly contributor for as little as $1 a month.

Up until this point, I've been doing this podcast, editing it in my spare time. It often takes 10 to 20 hours. This episode certainly took longer. And so your support really will help make this a sustainable project. So thank you. So what's been going on? Why has it been a year and a half since we've talked to our people? Well, I think you know what for purposes of our talk today, we became parents over the past year. And we started parenting during the pandemic, which came with all of its own blessings and challenges.

So that's why we've been off the air. Great. Well, let's introduce this episode. You start. Right. So today we're going to be talking to Nadeau and the Novick Community Farms. This is, for me, all of our interviews are very powerful and touch very deeply to the core of seeds and their people. this one spoke to me particularly because of the saga of Sustinado's life and journey to the United States. This is, I can think of a few concrete instances where the seeds and the stories of the seeds embody so much the story of the people in such a direct invisible way.

So we'll be talking about Nato and her family's exodus from Myanmar all through the camps in Thailand, all of the experience, all of their sufferings, their hopes, their joys, and how all along the way they carried their seeds, they carried their foods, and they carried their faith. And for me, as a member of the African diaspora, much of it resonated with me to hear, however, this story of someone living right now who has experienced, experienced what my ancestors experienced. What's for me very powerful, besides so many similarities in the food culture and how Nado speaks about the food and the seeds. So there was a lot to learn there, and there was a lot to engage. and I think it's a very exciting and very powerful interview. Yeah, and so NADO is a good friend of mine now. She's the interpreter for Karen refugees who fled Myanmar or Burma, as they say. And so we're going to be doing four different interviews, piecing them together, where NADO interprets for these refugees.

And they are based now in South Philly at Novick Urban Farm. and they're able to grow their traditional foods that they've carried with them all the way from the mountain villages that they come from. And all of the knowledge and traditions and rituals and blessings that they brought with them through all the places they've been. So we are lucky to work with so many farms at this point around 70, around the country who do cultural preservation through seed keeping and seed production. and this is one where we've probably learned the most since they're here in Philly and still carry the knowledge, the knowledge memory, but also like the bodily memory. Like we've learned how to winnow really well from them. We've learned how to thresh really well from them.

And so we spend, you know, a day at least each year at their farm in the fall processing seeds together. And they come to our farm with a meal and get to see some of their traditional. crops growing at our farm in a more suburban or rural setting. So it's just a really beautiful relationship, and I'm just grateful to Nado and her community members for sharing so much with us and now with the world through this, this storytelling. Yeah, I think at this time in which the world, so much of the world, at least in the news, is so very much focused on what's happening in Russia and Ukraine. It was very powerful. for me to hear this story of Nato's flight from Burma,

and to remember that there are refugees right now all over the world. There are people all over the world who are fleeing for their lives and are holding on to themselves to their faith and can only take what they have inside for the most part. It was very powerful for me. triumphant story to hear how not only did they survive many close calls, but Nado and her family thrived. And the resilience, I think, one of the things that I learned that I will be keeping with me is the resilience of Nado and her family, and indeed, of so many other refugees. I always like to joke with the people from Myanmar who have come and worked or volunteered or tour at our farm.

Every time they see almost anything green, especially if we consider it a weed, then they get excited and they take bags of it home that they seem to eat anything green. Many, many, many folks that I have met from Burma, and that was always a joke with me. but hearing Nado's story and seeing just what wonderful relationships they have with our green relatives. It makes me want to eat all kinds of weeds as well and to know how they prepare them and to embody that resilience that says that we can build relationships and with all of the plant world, all of the edible plant world. So for me, yeah, it was very, very, it was very informative and deeply, deeply powerful. Yeah, when they visit the farm, they gather weeds that I don't even know the name of.

And that was, you know, a survival mechanism, both while living in peaceful times, which haven't really existed for 70 years there, but also, you know, while fleeing through the jungle to the camps. And just to be clear, we're going to hear the stories of Tida Wins family. and Sarko's family, who both escaped the jungles, through the jungles. And Nadeau is just interpreting, but her family is also, you know, in that region and persecuted and displaced. So, you know, all three kind of have stories to tell about life currently in Burma or Myanmar and the ways that they've kind of survived generations of persecution. So we're going to jump in now. I'll clip over to an introduction to the first segment.

Thank you all so much for listening. Thank you. Many blessings. So yeah, we're going to start in August 2019 with this interview that's coming up here. We're at their farm, Novick Urban Farm, which is in South Philly. in the shadow of the baseball stadium, the Phillies, and more in the literal shadow of the highway that's up above the farm. And, you know, they're farming on the land of Novick Brothers,

a food distributor who supports their work. And where they're looking at their crops, including Chinbong or Sower Leaf Roselle and Spylanthes or Toothake Plant, as many people know it, as well as white garden egg, which is an African species of egg plant that we first learned about through these folks, and the rat tail radish, which they call white mustard fruit or white mustard flour. It's a radish. You eat the green pods. And, you know, we were, when we were jumping in here, Nadeau was explaining that it's often eaten as a snack,

raw or boiled or made into a soup or, you know, fried or pickled. So we're jumping in with Nado, my friend, and the interpreter that we work with, describing this special radish. Enjoy. So we call it the rat tail radish, but that's not what you call it. No, we call like a master, white master fruit. because they have fruit right yeah so that's what they call and people like a greasy some people I can see like like a snack yeah like a lunchtime I'm

right there they eat non-store they can eat some people are very gracy they eat a lot how do you cook it so cool he like a make a voice yeah the one kind that another kind make a soup and another one fry. So for me, yeah, I do all things, but I like the one thing is like a pickle. Yeah, it's a delicious. I love it. Saku, yeah. Okay, what kind does Saku like to make? Yeah, what kind does Saku like to make? What else is in the soup?

Yeah, sometimes I put like a meat, sometimes I put like a chicken and fish, dry fish. Yeah, I make a soup, yeah, I like. Okay, nice. How about this eggplant? What is your, do you eat this eggplant that we're processing here, the white one? The white one, my favorite is a green one. The white one, so, yeah, sometimes, like, we white and we eat like that. Yeah.

Why do you grow the white eggplant? Oh, because we want to eat. Because we cannot find the other place. We cannot find the other place. So when we do in here, so we have chance to whatever we want. We can grow in here. So that's why. And like our people find they want to eat, they can and they buy it.

Because we cannot find the other market. Maybe some place is going to have it. Around here, we don't see it. Yeah. Can you talk about... talk about where the farmers come from and how you got involved with the farm? The micro, they come from Burma, original is a Burma, and many recent silver war, so flee to the Thailand. So, yeah, many years. Some people are in 20 years there, and they moved to

the third country in the United States, and they are farmers, so they want to grow some things. so we are trying to work in here. So when we ask, can we grow like our favorite food, so okay, so we enjoy. So we bring here. What is your most favorite food that you grow here from back from home? Pankin. Panking.

Panking because we eat a leaf. Panking, like a pumpkin fruit or pumpkin leaf also. Yeah. So many people eat like chimbab. Yeah, chimbab. Now what is chimbong? Sawa Li, Roselle. Oh.

Yeah, chimbao. You know, like, when we came to United States, we cannot find. So that's why we make, like, the other thing we do pretend like a chimbao. We put like a sour thing to the li, so like a turmeric pounder. So we think, oh, this one chimbao, so not really chimbao. But after that, we try, oh, maybe we can grow in here. So we find out the sea online, but first we cannot find the really thing, I think like this from the Thai, I don't know, from the Africa or from the, I don't know, Thailand, because very big. But right now we got the sea because I visit my country. So I brought the sea. Yeah, it's the correct one. So yeah, most people, they like and they're like a chimmon. This is good for help because sour. They say like when you bought a heat, you drink the sour thing. Yeah. It's good. good for help.

What does the correct one look like? Oh, we had in here. Yeah. Maybe you could show me? Yeah, I can show you. It's a dream. Let's see. Yeah, you can see.

this one and this one like I told like maybe Africa from the Africa or Thailand I don't know we got from online so when we eat a different kind of very like a liquid many liquids or not and where you could many liquid come out so we don't want like that so after that we got from the Burma yeah this one yeah the taste different yeah they take this one the little small and when you could not too much liquid and when you fry very good and whatever you do so like it's a perfect the taste different also yeah but we cannot get the sea in here right until now yeah until now because I ask like the other state they say oh the weather when the weather cold they die so

there's not only the way we had to order in online and we have to like some people bring because we cannot make it in here do you have more seed still that you brought with you Yeah, I say for this. Maybe we can find a farmer down south who could grow it for seed for you, so they can replenish your seed somewhere further south here. Yeah, but yeah, we try. But the sea, like, not ready to get the seed. We got the fruit, but not enough to get the seed to save.

But the weather. Maybe somewhere like Florida. Florida, yeah, it's going to be. Yeah, I could send to someone in Florida. Okay. And they can make it for you. Okay, thank you for that. Just a quick note here to say that we did find friends of ours, Amy and John, at Frog Song Organics in Florida, to receive this seed, regenerate it, and send it back. And we were able to offer it through our catalog last year. And hopefully again next year, they're growing it again. They were already really experienced. with growing Roselle and so they were able to isolate this one and regenerate it for

the Korean farmers and for our catalog so thank you so much Amy and John these ones are smaller leaf they don't make as much water yeah and they taste better yeah when you call you can see the taste different also and normally this one too my liquid yeah this one you can see the stander very red and big oh yeah this one like a short and small leaf you got And when you call it totally different. This one, too much liquid. Like my friend don't know. So when he wiped so many water,

he thought like, he makes a, he wants to like a liquid go away, right? Why he wants, more more liquid comes out. So he said, oh, it doesn't work. So after they figure out, oh, they're not correct one. But they call Roselle, right? The East India also, they love that one. So I can see right now issue also, they like not only our Burmese, people like,

the other people like also. Yes, good. So what kind of leaves did you use before you found this to pretend that it was chingong? Are you, my saying it right? Chim baum? Chimbao. Chimbao. You know, spennet?

Spanid leaf. Yeah. And we fry spanish lid. After that, we put like a temporary ponder. And we eat, usually we make a chimbao with a bamboo chint bao, right? So in that time, I think like a 10 years ago, Yeah, in the New York, I live at the New York, so we gathering in the Korean New Year. So we brought, it's a chimbun, so I was so happy.

So I thought, no, really chimbled because it's a spinach. They put, like, a turmeric ponder. Tumric? No, no. Tamarin. Tammar powder. Yeah, tamary pounder. And they put that, they fry the baby shoes.

So, okay, yeah, because we, like, we're from our country, right? We love to eat our country food, but in that time. So, all nothing, but better than nothing. So we enjoyed it. So Korean New Year, so they bring like a dish from, we make homemade. So different family they made, right? So I saw right away, it's a chimbao, chimpon. They introduced like, I can't wait to eat.

But when I take it all tastes different. So after there, I figure out, not really chimbab. But right now we got it really one. What time of year is the Korean New Year? Each year the change because most is the last month, the last week of the January. Yeah, it's a Korean New Year. Yeah. Wow.

Must have been really wonderful when you found the actual plant. Yeah. So this is the toothache plant or the, what we call... Yeah, they like that one. Spilanti. Spilandi. Yeah, they like that one. They like that one, but I can show you this one like a, oh, this one is water.

Yeah, they go, the water. No strong taste. But you can see this one like a yellow flower. So for last year, I cannot say the seed. So this one, this one I put in my like a vase. So you take a piece and you put it in the water and it makes roots? Yeah. So I said, okay, let's try because I had to bring many hours the other state, right?

So I try there, so like the weather is ready, so I put on the ground. So it's come out, so okay, we can do this way without sea. But we have to say this one in the vase. The whole like winter, right? Wow, and no soil, just water? Yeah, not only water, because they love water. So we call like a water, like a water crust, you know, like the little water. So we have like a three kinds. This one you have to put the ground. So you have to see the sea. This one is the order for Thailand.

What color does this one have? Yellow, yellow, yellow. But this one like a more like a flower. You can see like a small sunflower. This one. But this one you can see like a different one. Oh, yeah. So this is more like the one I've seen before. Yeah, where it's red in the middle and yellow. Yeah, but when my mom came, So, oh, this one is good. They say like that it's protect any kind of cancer. So they have to eat. They see like that, oh, my God.

When I drink, I buy, oh, my God, it's numb, my tongue, and my mouth numb. I can't feel so quite what they say good for medicine. I'm saying, oh, I'm sorry. It's too strong for you. Too strong for me. But I can see that one, the yellow. The same flower, but the yellow one. You know, right?

Yeah, I grow the yellow one. Yeah. Okay, thank you so much. I'll get back and help them save seeds. Okay. So you can see, we could just talk about foods all day and we do a lot often. But I'm going to take us to an interview. The first one I've did with this group a couple years ago, when I came to bring them my turmeric leaves, they had recently visited the farm that year and told me that they love to eat turmeric and ginger leaves. And so now I bring them each year to them when we harvest the roots. And I brought along the microphone. I put it in the

middle of the table. I was meeting them at a community center slash art collective and refugee support organization called Southeast by Southeast in South Philly. And the room was pretty echoy. The sound quality is not great. So I'm going to try to find just the gems and the conversation and whittle it down. And I was there to interview Tidawin and Cherku. And Nadeau is the interpreter again. So mostly you will hear her voice, but I'm leaving it.

some pieces so you can get a sense of the two women that I'm interviewing. And we'll hear about their lives before they came to the U.S., you know, in Burma, in their villages. And then when they had to leave to Thailand to the different refugee camps that they went to, they each went to a different one. And they were there for quite a while. So we talk about their life there as well. and then coming to the United States and their life here. And it gives you kind of a sense, a deeper sense beyond the, you know, the love for food, you know, of the people and their love for where they come from and their way of life and how they can continue that in the new lands that they must go to.

So here we go. We're going to that little room. in that wonderful community center where they're involved in many programs. And Nado does some teaching around language and culture for youth and adults, Southeast by Southeast. My name is Didaway. I brought to Thailand, Burma. Original from Burma and went to the camp.

Me, the Cape, Thailand, Thailand. Repetian Camp, a refugee camp. So you were born in Burma? Yeah, I'm born in Burma. What age did you go to the camp? Um, yeah, 10 years old. My name is Turkey. I was born.

I was born in Burma. I kept from Burmach and Thailand refugee camp. Same camp? I'm not the same camp. Different, different cap. For her, Melah, okay. For me, Mela Kek. It's different camp.

Mela and Melaun. Okay. Different camp. Okay. Yeah, and when did you go to the camp? How old? How old? Fifty.

Fifteen years old. And how long were you there? No, vanila. Degahon. around like 12 years. I'm Nodo. I was born in Burma. And 2002, I became like a babysit.

So I took care of the Italian family baby. So it's like a ambassador. Yeah, so I went to the St. Dominica first. Yeah, I came to the U.S. Yeah. So you've been here for how long? Since 2002, so...

LaTai. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my story. Yeah, my story, like when I was nine, no, no, I was five. My dad passed away. So my man became like a single man, so I had to help my mom. So I had to help my mom. So, when I was nine, I don't know, I was five, my dad passed away. So my mom became like a single man, so I had to help my mom. So when And I was six years old, I had to, whatever I can, I had to have my mom. So, yeah, so time to go to the firm, I had to go.

Even though I'm young, every day, each season, so I had to work. So I know how to work. And the product is going on. Yeah, so I had to cook for my mom also. So, and I had to take care of the cow or buffalo anymore. to get, like, support money. Not, they do get the money. They give like a rice.

Yeah, rice. Yeah, it's like a 30, I don't know, counting down. So that's 30 buckets of rice that she earned for her family for caring for the buffalo for the season, kind of like a cowboy. And so he had to take at the cow. Like a cowboy, but, you know, in the jungle or village.

They don't have a machine to, separate the rice, you know. So they had to lay on the like a ground. So like the buffalo Mahan. They walk on it. Yeah. So they collect the rice. Oh, by the way,

like the only one, like the person owned the 25 Buffalo. So in the morning I took out and the whole day I spent time and I took care And after there like a evening, yeah, I had to make sure everything is the...

So you spend all day with the... Not a no. No, no. No, no. I'm not doing. I had like a lunch fall. So I had like a lunch ball. So I had to do like a banana leaf, make a lunch ball.

So, like a lunch ball for me, and the banana leaf. And the whole day I had to stay. sometimes like a rain, sometimes cold, so I have to make a rain, rain, but not rain cold. Like a tablecloth. Yeah, in Burma. Tebram.

But I don't know Tewalesan, there's a bit more. Yeah. Bamboo half. So I had to stay outside the whole day. I don't have things to protect myself. I had like, even though shoe, it's like a regular,

like a, I don't have shoes, like a center. center. That's it. So I had to work. And this is from six to ten years old. We need to love. Yeah. So just you and the buffalo alone. And they respected you? And they respected you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever miss them? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you ever miss them? Yeah. It's a difficult time I go through because I had to let them. Yeah.

So, so sad. It's so sad. Kekulwima, but Kewu'u'u'i, then you know, but Kha'u'u'u'a, they say, like, in Korean war, they say, like, in the past you are like a silk slave. Yeah. After that, you can become like a boss, the owner's slave. sleep. Yeah. So they go through like a hotline. So right now it's going to become better life. So so sad. Yeah. Yeah. So sad to live, to let that buffalo. But she had to. Yeah. Did you grow other

crops? Mama owned the land around the nearby river. So we plant there. So they do like a bean, but different kind of bean is a very good like a price you can sell so yeah they do like that but at the like the other corner or other yard space they do like a pumpkin a squat or other kind of bean of being yeah we everything only we don't eat the yellow one the pumpkin yeah i can be yellow i thought out oh Can I eat everything? Do you know that? Uh-huh, I learned that from you. Yeah, like a chili also, they eat the chili fruit, and leaf, and stem.

And stem, how do you eat chili stem? Yeah, actually like the baby on the tar, they pick the little stem. Yeah, actually like our village is between, like a, like a silver, war, something like that, kind of like a bed in body, they had to go back. And... So go to work. Yeah, I want to say like a small war, like fighting, right? So often, so not safety.

So some people already they left. So our family stayed there, but after they're thinking, oh, this is not good. And, you know, it's difficult to survive there. So they decide to move, to go to the camp. You cannot go right away, direct to the camp because you had to go through many locations. And some, like, you had to hide in the jungle. And some, you had to temporary, you had to make a space to stay there. And we can meet other.

In the jungle, also, they can meet each other. So a few days, they moved there. And they go step by step. So first, like, my mom went there. like a step by step right to the camp my mom already went there so my mom know how to go there

but in like a dangerous place also so my mom like a hero because we are all like a girl simply three three daughters and mother so only four like a woman

I can say like that and so women had to take care the three kids and they they space and they had to carry with the food. So when the day time, they travel and at night, whatever the space, they take a break and let, yeah, they take a rest. Yeah, actually like today we spend time in the jungle. You have to carry everything like an utility, I don't know how

to call it, to cook, like a pot utensil, everything. And when you start and you could, and you could whatever you have, yeah, you have a right or like a vegetable, you have to find out at the jungle, so the Lee or something, yeah, you have to, uh, survive, like I get to support it together. And then, like a two day after that, they're very close to the Thailand border, right? So they had like a problem, you know, Thailand police cast people. So very like, you know, you know, you can go like a day time, you can't go like that. You had to hide it. You had to go the different way.

Some kind, like, you had to listen to the news. What happened? And, you know, each day, the police kept people. So sometimes they don't catch people. So that's why in that time, you can travel with a car. Because in the Thailand past, they had a car.

A safety time. So you had to find out, you have to wait until that safety time. So you can travel. To go to that camp. What would they do if they cut? There's a lot of them to make it. They're not a lot of more. Yeah, you have to become labor, labor, volunteer. So if you get the money, so you are free.

So if you cannot pay, you have to work for one week to be free. Sometimes they're very mean, and they cash, the Burmese, you are Burmian people, right? They catch and they put you to the jail. and they send back to the Burmese army because you belong to the Burmese hat. And you become the Burmese labor again. So it's a dangerous, very scary thing. Some people, they die for that.

You cannot come back. That must have been very scary. Really? Yeah, scary. Especially for 10-year-old. So there were just four of them in the family that escaped to the time. land refugee camp. And three of them were children, girls, and their mother. They had to carry

their food and cooking supplies and the baby and had to hide the entire way. Before all this, her mom scouted with a friend, scouted the journey and went up to the Thai refugee camp. She knew a pastor that helped her get a spot in the camp, and she actually had to buy the land. But they had a space to live, and a refugee organization helped with food and clothing, things like rice and oil and beans and fish paste. Her friend stayed behind, and her mom came back on her own to rescue her children. So they really consider her a hero. Yeah, Mama, very like a hero for us because, say, oh, I'm going to go first, and my mom. very, like, a kid promise to us.

So he came back and picked us. And we go together and make the way to the camp. Do you remember when she came back? Yeah, actually, like, three, simply, like, we stayed separately. So my sister, the older sister, were working at the town. So, like, Mama, had to pick up separately. And then a little girl, my aunt, took care. So, yeah.

So Mama had to come back. I call that. Yeah. So, yeah, my aunt also, yeah, already came to United States also. Is your mom here, too? Yeah, live with her. Actually, Tita Wyn's mom shows up later in this interview with some tarolief that she cooked and brought for me to taste, which was so sweet and amazing.

And we also spoke briefly at this point about Tito Wyn's sister, who, moved near Dallas, Texas and has a large, very tidy, very hardworking farm where they grow Burmese vegetables like Chinbong and long beans and also cows and chickens. And Burmese people from nearby will come and buy this traditional foods from her. And Nado had just visited bringing some seeds to share for Chimbong and said it was. an amazing place one other question in the camps was that all Korean people yeah I see like most like a Korean people and some like India India they was born in you know when you move the whole village Yatamara yeah some Burmese but and some

India but most are the Korean actually like no reason why Burmese I mean, like a burden, the current people, we don't know. Sometimes you are correct without, like, no reason to kill. Yeah, they burn the whole village. Yeah, so because you are correct. At this point, we hear from Cherku, who starts with the day that her village was burned. And this is for me, like when I'm a child, like our village, the Burmese, I need a kid in Sharia, they're going to be.

Yeah, actually, like for me, like when I know, like our village, Burmese army or Syria, they burn a poor village. So we had to flee right away. Yeah, so like a similar like the Deraway. lot like that way, you have to travel and you have to listen and find new, what they say is safety time so you can go, no matter what day and time, you have to travel. Three days, so, yeah, I had to go through and to go to the camp. How old?

Between like a 14, 15 years old, so, yeah, I travel with my family. Yeah, I can't remember about two, three family, yeah, my family and other family also. The day time, we were walking in the, no matter what, and at night we sleep in the early morning, we have to travel now that day again. When I came, I had to carry, because all people had to carry each thing, right? Because I'm young, so my mom let me carry everything. You center? Yeah, utensil.

Yeah, utensil. So part, like the small plate for everything, because I'm young, so they let me carry everything. that one. Yeah, because my brother was very young, so my mom had to carry the clothing

and the top my mom had to carry baby also. So it depends your age, you have to carry. You cannot go free like that.

So when the army came, you must not have been much time to grab everything. Like, before the army came,

they hear the new. Nado explains that there were no phones. and messages were sent by runners who came ahead of the army to warn the village. So they were ready for that. And when they saw the army and they flee, and they make them angry, so they burned the whole village.

Several years before this when she was about 10 years old, she helped her family by cooking and taking care of her younger brothers and the family buffalo, while her parents helped out other families outside the house, including helping with young and lazy buffalo, who they had to pull and push to keep them moving. I think good buffalo, they can go dryly. But some buffalo doesn't want to do that.

You had to pull in front people and behind, so two people. So, like, between this buffalo. That's what her parents did was in front and behind. Yeah. You had to go, you had to pull one and like a buffalo follow you. Yeah, say like your buffalo like a lazy buffalo, I said. They work for other people, but not for the money, not for the rights. Your turn, my turn.

I help you, you had to help me. So even though I'm young, I have to have the other family. family so yeah cooperate yeah so my my plan is so proud for me and like I'm young but I support and I have them beside the rice they grow like a chili and like we go in here something we got natural from the mountain village so you don't need to grow but we go on like a chili and a plant, a pancane, and cucumber beam. What came from the wilds, from the forest, the jungle?

The other leaf, I don't know how to call. They grow like the master leaf. Masterly, you know, after that they make a paste and they dry and you can eat wintertime. No, they call paste, no, no, no, how to call paste? No, sour. Oh, a pickle. Pickle. kind of like a pickle.

A pickle, yeah. Pickle, yeah. And they dry in the sun. Yeah, it depends the location. Yeah, sometimes they didn't after that they make a paste. They mix with the chili thing, yeah, water. Actually, my mom, she had to go to the camera. He carried like a sea, vegetable sea, and the oil.

They had to hide him. to hide in, you have to carry hiding because it's illegal. Why did she bring the soil? But I don't know how to her. So they believe, like, when you carry like that, so you can make a more fruit, more vegetable. Carrying. but how good a lot more, a t-a-koynean-a-kir-kir-khi-kir-khi-kir-h-kir-moh. Actually, like a long, long time go, like a generation, a senior,

they say, each play, because you have to move all the time, right? Each time, carry. And because, like, they're swy, very good thing. So, yeah, you had to carry it. So they listen. So each play, they move, no matter why. to the cat also. That is very beautiful.

When you bring the soil to the new place, what do you do with it? They pray and they wish something. Each time, like, they spread, yeah, earth, yeah. Spread it on the soil. And the soil, and they pray and they say something. What do you pray? Yeah, I think like they wish, because they had to move place to place, so they wish they can stay in here, not temporary.

they wish like that. They don't want to move. So wish like an old. I want to stay in long time, forever or some kind of like that. Each time they're going to move, they have to carry. Actually, I live under the 7th Street. Yeah, like a bed yard. Yeah, my mother's prayer there and pray and wish.

Let go. Because right away you had to do it. Where you carry the sea, you had to carry the earth. and become good. So anyway, like you go to the Thailand, right? You bring. And you go to the United States, right? Bring with the sea.

Not only seed. You have to bring with the earth. You have to carry. So like they really surprised and they're really happy because they thought like a, oh, we go to the new country, third country.

We don't have chance to grow. grow, continue to grow as because the weather or maybe it's allowed to grow or now, but right now we had chance and it's a gap opportunity, you know, when they're right away, even though small space, you know, they're allowed to work, they had chan to work because in the past, every day, work, world, were in the earth, like a garden thing, firmer thing, but the big country, they never drank, they never thought like we can have opportunity. But I now continue to, especially right now continue to work at the Nova. Say like for me, I thought like an American, we don't have vegetables.

So before I let, I eat vegetable a lot. And I ate like a bit of melon leaf. I ate every day before I left. This is all very powerful to me to imagine. people uprooting themselves from their ancestral home, something they've had to do many times, but this time to actually leave that whole region with hopes of getting to Thailand and to the U.S. and taking seeds for the plants that they love, taking soil so that they can perform the ritual of starting to root in a new place. They even talked about taking pots

and homemade knives so that they could be sure they can eat. where they're going, and, you know, Serku filling up on bitter melon leaves, not knowing if she'll ever get to eat them again, or vegetables in general, this is all very powerful and must have been very scary, and makes me think about, you know, the miracle that they're able to now grow their traditional foods in their new space that they live in. and here we're going to talk about some of the traditions that they take along with them around growing food and harvesting and eating and blessing the food. Oh, by the way, the sea they collect each year, yeah, and they dry the sun.

Sometimes, you know, dry, they're on the, like, on the stove. Yeah. And actually, like, the honor to the old people, they give the old people, yeah, after that. They give the old people the first fruit. First fruit. First fruit. Everything you come out of your garden, you do. Because they're blessing.

We got blessing for the old people. They believe like that. So they wish and they pray for that. Because you bring the first fruit. So the old people bless the food? Yeah, the pastor, the leader. Yeah. So each time everything, vegetable, forever,

come out. just get to there. And they knew it at their blessing. You know, like a blessing, you need for God and you need for people also. Nado said blessings you need for God and you need for people also. And she kind of follows this with all these beautiful ways that they bless people with their fruits of their labor. She talks about giving the first fruits to their community, to the pastor, to their families. but also to strangers, to elders, to people in the community who would be blessed by their food, by their first fruits. She also talks about early in the season having feasts with their first fruits, first harvests at their church and at their farm.

And so, you know, providing delicious, healthy food for people is really a huge part of what they do. And we've certainly experienced that every time we've visited their farm or even when they visit our farm. And also, right during this section of the interview, Tita Wynn's mom walks in with some tarot leaves that she's cooked so that I could try it, which is just another incredible blessing. Here's that. You asked your mom for pregnant. Oh, yeah. You're my job. Yeah, right.

That article can do it enough. They're talking about what we're talking about, abo, they're talking about where he's a lot of people, you know, on it's actually, they're talking about the whole thing, we eat.

The lead, the stand, the root. So the root, they cook with the other meat, like a pot bun, a chicken bone, very good. They actually forage for these leaves in certain waterways.

in Philadelphia, and I promised I wouldn't reveal those places. But it also brought us to the fact that people grew it back home in rivers, like the one where Tita Wynn grew up, and brought us back to her mother's house. And I asked them to share with her mother that we would be talking about her as a hero. And this is her response to that. Yeah, I'm huge. Okay, that was the end of October 2019, where I had been delivering turmeric leaves and ginger leaves and interviewing them in the community center. And we're going back in time now to the beginning of September of that year when they were visiting our farm, as they do every year. They brought a bunch of food, of course. It was amazingly delicious.

and we went through the fields and harvested a bunch of their traditional crops, including turmeric and ginger and actually some weeds in the field and pumpkin leaves and so on. I also got to have truly ripe cucumber soup for the first time, which was awesome, like big, big yellow cucumber fruits in the soup. And so here we go. We're under a pop-up tent, pretty close to a. our high tunnel or hoop house and we're going to talk about some of their favorite plants i'm so glad you all are here um and and you brought all these amazing foods and also harvested from our

farm to add to that um what do what did you make today today we make a burmine salad a tea salad so we got like we had to add like a shrimp dry shrimp and like a bean the fry and we add this tomato we add with the cabbage but today we want like a fresh tomato and green tomato not red tomato yeah and we brought like a chimbao chimbab you know rosal yeah the in american they call rosal yes and i interviewed you about that last time i saw you yeah so we fry with the dry french and bamboo and today we bring the tumourine lead and we fry with the baby shrimp or baby fish. It's our like a favorite and we like it.

And this one we bring like a beaten. Bitten, yeah, we grow from like a novels also. It's a bitter, bitter eggplant. Yeah, everything like a beaten. And here we pick, we saw the beaten lead also. So in my country, they say like a bit is good for the medicine. And after that I learned and I know about it. They say like a protector, many like a cancer.

So, yeah, it's a natural way, the taste they love also. And this one? Oh, Spylanthes. So yeah, we have like a three kind, but in here we saw like a one kind. Yeah, so they're ready to eat. And today we're going to eat fresh ginger leaf and turmeric leaf. Yeah, so like the guy, can't wait to eat. Because he asked me again, again, can I get for today?

for today for lunch or say okay so we pick it fresh we're gonna eat great yes they came right from the hoop house maybe a hundred feet from here can you tell me a little more about this eggplant because I asked you last time and I didn't press record you told me but this is used as medicine also yeah they say like a good for medicine so I think like a country side is from the upper Burma and many people they got from there so every year they should eat they say like that so yeah so I'm really surprised I came to the United States I saw the same fruit so we so happy to eat yeah it's a beaten egg plant where did you see it in America first I saw at the New Jersey

yeah after there we grow at the nervous oh so you got the seeds from a farmer in New Jersey oh no in that time we don't know we're not allowed to pick, we thought like that. Only we pay like a yang. We don't pay like the yellow one. But after they're like an ardent dish up. Oh, Adam found the seeds. Again, that's Adam Forbes, who used to work with them at Novick,

and who now grows his Greek ancestral seeds for true love seeds. And we're talking about what we call the green pumpkin eggplant, or ka, which is an African species, but very popular in Southeast Asia. Awesome. Okay, so don't let me hold this up from eating if you want to go ahead and I can maybe describe what you're doing. Yeah. So using a knife to cut up the turmeric. Yeah, too long to chewing on. Actually in Burma it is only like a baby leaf. But in here, no matter what, we eat everything and we fry with like a shrimp. In Burma, yeah, it's a good leaf, you know, very big and we put like a fresh baby.

fish and baby like a strain and fish and we put other flavor onion garlic and spicy and chilies and we put that and we like a we roast and yeah so last year when I brought you the very tall very large leaves that was not normal normally you'd have very small turmeric leaves yeah so in here I think maybe the weather or I don't know if this situation very big in my country not be like that oh so they They don't even get as big as they do here in Burma. No, it's a small. I think like they say like a two kind or turmeric.

They say like a small root, small leaves. So they say smell, more smell than big one. So that's why. And we had like a bitter also for medicine. Yeah. Did I want to have it? A bitter turmeric for medicine? Yes.

And it's different from this. Yeah. The same shape, the same leaf, but the taste different. Ah. Nadeau, can you tell the podcast what you just told me about where to get turmeric plants? Tumric plants? Yeah, turmeric plants. Oh, tumouric plants.

The root before we saw at the Chinese restaurant, no, no, grocery. And we plant and died. So after that, we find out in the India, India supermarket. Yeah. So this year I got more. Because there's are older. Older, and two kinds of the, we can see, you can see like a small and old. But when for like someone they said, it's a baby one, so quite like a baby one, cannot get the plant.

Yeah, so you have to make a correct thing to pick. All right, so we need the nice, mature roots. Yeah. And the taste also different. You can see. They have different kinds in India versus China. Yes. So I think India one is like close to our Burma.

Yeah, so you can see. Yeah, because people eat the turmeric for the flavor and smell and the one, I think digest. And when you have like a stomach upset, just you eat and drink like a ponder, tumor ponder, yeah, good for help. In my country, they apply in the skin. in the skin.

When I applied to get a baby, it's like a blood cycling get normal. So they eat and they apply and they make some kind of roast and it tastes good. So it's a turmeric is important for our country. So in here we try to look for and we found at the issue market.

But the correct thing from my country is for India store. Yeah. Yeah, some people, like in countryside, they don't have medicine, right? Yeah, they have bitten eggplant, instead of medicine. So why, like, they have, like, malaria, and when they have fever, no medicine, right? So they eat that, and they get very much. They just eat it raw like that?

They plop the little eggplant in their mouth? Yeah, either way. Yeah, they buy and they fry, and some people, they eat, mostly they eat like a fresh. like that. Do you have a special name for this one? What I mean? What I mean? Yeah.

Everything is like a bitten, so we don't have separate name. Everything is a bitly, beef fruit. Yeah. Ka. Ka. Yeah. Kha. Bitter.

Yeah, this one also like a bitten leaf. Yeah, we found in here. So I'm embarrassed to say I don't know what we call this because we think of it as a weed. What did you call? What did you call? What did you call? Yeah, Houthido. I wanted to ask you about your favorite.

Favorite Pankin Lee. And Pankin Lee is my favorite. So I never thought I'm going to get in here. But when we, the first year, like, we really nervous to grow. And after that, we can see. Yeah. And the other location also we saw, so I so happy because it's my favorite in Burma. In Burma, especially in Burma, we make a suit because countryside, we make with a bamboo.

Sometimes we make a suit with the baby pumpkin and the lead and bamboo shoe. We make a soup. Yeah. And we can fry also and you can make a, yeah, you can make a soup also. So what do you do with this part and you don't eat that? No, how are you going to eat? So that's why you have to know how to make the... the pumpkin leaf.

Yeah. So this one you take out. And this one, you have like a skin inside, so you have to do like that. So what you do like that, it's come out. See? It's a secret. So you're pulling apart the leaf and the stem

to expose the outer the outer strings and then take the strings off. Well, some people, they don't know, just they cup, and they fry, and they make a suit. So when, you know, you chewing, not easy to come out because you have to peel this one. It's correct way. Thank you. I'm going to try this. And are you going to eat this now or later? You have to cook it.

Later. Later. Just I show you how to make, yeah, how to prepare for the Panking League. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's my favorite. And here we jump forward a couple years to our annual seed cleaning day at Novick Urban farm in South Philly under that highway by that stadium with all the farmers and good food and lots of seeds to winnow and thresh, thresh and winnow. And here you hear the winnowing process on a rice winnowing basket. And we talk about that a little bit and then we move into threshing ochre seeds in a bucket while we talk about what's happening right now in Burma. They're shaking it side by side.

Yeah, they're like a little girl. Yeah, they had to do like that. It's a country. Natural thing, sort of. And they know how to make a measure, but you have to practice a lot. I cannot. I'm not good for that. Mm. Mm.

Mm. What? What? What? What? What? No. They're like a 14 years old, he's good for that.

That's what you do when you're 14? Yeah. He saw Ma. Ma, do it. I'm not far from 14. Yeah. I have a part of this. I'm not going to do.

Ah, ha. This sounds like. Ma'amai. Ma'a'i. That's what? She's finished? She's finished? Okay, here we are sitting around

Okay, here we are sitting around an okra bucket together with maybe hundreds of okra pods dried up with seeds pouring out of them There's several of us sitting around together and talking about the medicinal benefits of okra for diabetes and arthritis and the cold and childbirth. And I'm recording on my phone learning as we go. Here we go. A girl is a cholesterol there. Cavity? Cabbity?

Diabetes. Diabetes. Oh, diabetes. Yeah, diabetes. And while it's like an arthritis. And while I got cold, you have to drink. Keep cold, you make a soup. Oh, you drink the broth.

You drink the soup. Yeah, make a soup. For the diabetes, you have to put in the cool water, the rock, not cool. They put in the sink in the water and next day you can drink. You put the whole thing in the water? Yeah. Cut it a little bit. Cut it a little bit.

Yeah, you try a little bit in the cool water. Drink like a juice, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like a doggy, it's very good for that. So they drink. I think you can leave those in. I know someone from Pakistan.

His father has diabetes. And he puts an Oprah pod in the water at night. In the morning, he drinks it. You drink it. Yeah, but you have to chew a little bit. You have to chop it a little bit. Okay. Yeah, you can fly with an egg.

Mm-hmm. Medium. Don't put down. It's very good. I mean, oh, see, I'm going to do it. I believe it.

Yeah, it's like an easy-to-gibor. So you have to eat this one, so. Oh, okay. So pregnant women, they have to eat. For the smooth liquid. Yes, smooth liquid. Yeah, with a catfish. Catfish and okra for a pregnant woman?

No, make a suit. Yeah, make a soup. Okay, right before birth? Yeah, ready for birth. Can I ask you a question about Burma? Uh-huh. Because we're going to put together our episode soon of our interviews. I'm wondering if you have anything to say about what's happening in the

about what's happening in Burma right now? Oh, it's terrible. So I don't know how to say, like a political. Political. Yeah. Even though you... When we elect the government, right? Like a democracy.

I say democracy won. But the military wants to take place. So they bully. It took the power right now, terrible. They kill people and they say, oh, you work with the guy. other men, you know, with other groups, like, like, I don't know, they don't trash. And even though they kill many people who have educated, like a teacher, doctor, volunteer,

you volunteer, you have, you have people, right? And they kill you. Yeah. And you brought the food to the, like a refugee camp. They kill you. Even though you send money, they catch. he took money and took like a pool and actually like we go with like a Thailand side yeah and when they got the information they stopped by and they take it and they care people easily take the

people are like a care people right now many many people die and so they are to flee to the jungle and some people they flee until us right now yeah but many is like a jungle and they go they went to like India and Thailand right now not safety the whole family they're gonna kill no reason they're gonna kill you and like many many and I think like this month in the time magazine you can see the lady the young lady in Burma yeah they stand for that one and they make a protest and then he speed out so like to like a other country know our health yeah is your family safe yeah right now for now but our house we don't know the first time the checking like a they did like the house is

damage yeah damage but my my sister how like a fire bomb out from the airplanes yeah the drug like a bone or something. Our town, very small town, why did they use like the star like that? I don't know. And like they came to your house and they broke in your style. They took everything like a value thing. They took and they made broken your house so I don't understand what quality girl. Yeah, so even though you come back, your heart damage and you have food to eat.

yeah but when we're gonna come back i don't know right now as like a mama three months three months already a second time they have to flee again so you don't know when is going to come back and the countryside very cold so some people are safe for them and you know in the jungle the raining so like many people already sick and the covid for big hit. Right. So like a double. Wow.

So every day you can hear many people die. And the government, I mean military, they kill people. Many places, many states, every day. Wow. Even though a kid and young, like a student also. Yeah, kids understand right now, I think two years already, no in school. So education is behind right now. right now.

Yeah. Yeah. And they cut out the internet. And the color. Yeah. And... What is that? Oh, it's like everywhere.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, this and net, everything, like everything go down. So some companies, they quit. They don't want anymore. The big company, you know, every day you can, like a bone. It's like a city at the many locations. the building, how many years you have to build a building, right, your house?

They easily, they burned out. Yesterday, I heard at the new, it's like, the whole village, it's like a 40 house. And the two times, they come back again, and they thought like, they don't trust you, right? You go with the government, they feel like that, and they bound your house. Yeah, so many people in Changsha, no home, no play, like, no food. so and like people try to help even though we like the raise money in the other country we send the money we cannot get it yeah yeah it's like if you like a 60,000 or maybe 30 percent they get it but otherwise so what can you do so just we pray you pray yeah we pray

and we have like something going to be changed for our country this month already because we start like January 1st you know actually like we elect government right the November we elect the government and we know like a democracy one and they already had a meeting they already had like a leading everything set out and you know a few weeks they're gonna like like a make a ceremony but at the midnight They put in the jail. They put like a president in jail. You can't believe?

Only our country, I think. It must be very hard to watch all that from here. Yeah. So you can't do it much besides free. Yeah. We don't have like a just it. Actually, like it's like a long time ago and our like a countryside for the current people, seven years.

People 70 years, 70 years ago, they got like a, I think like I got bullied. So it's been 70 years. You know, when they fought for the British, you know, okay, we're gonna go together. Where we win, we're gonna get you, but they're broken promise. You understand? It's a long, long story. So many Syria is a Quran. so they fought for the to get freedom but after that they cannot make it so so that's why

become like an enemy so so no reason are you Korean say yeah they kill you no reason easily to care so that's why many refugees is a Korean people right yeah so other ethnic judge started but the longer one is a Korean keeper so until right now when you say Burmese were like a very sensitive of the Korean people because they killed by Burm army they burn your house no plane to live no safety so many many generations so that's one like a Korean people ask why we are to flee why we are to run in jungle why we are to escape no question for that because grandpa grandma already so until right now so we hold like a finish and right now other ethnic so they

understand right now oh that's why Korean people fought like the against fighter So they understand, so like many ethnic groups right now, they have like the unique, like to against this army. I mean like a Burmese, Burmese are military. You know, they take the power, you know, because they have gone. So they came to your village. What cow do they want to eat to kill it? What pick? They want to eat to kill. And for your daughter, they want to take it.

Even though you're white, they're going to take it. Because they had guns. So they took the power, not equal. And they took, even though like a tree, you know, like a tea, you know, tea tree, they're very, very well. Even though in your garden, they say they belong to military. Oh my God. Wow.

You take all your food and your trees and your plants? Yeah. So you're not all your stuff. And like you made your rice or your meat your rice or your plants. or you made a thing, if they want to take it, they take it not belong to you, even though it belongs to you. And like the plant also, the plant, the land also, many generations, your grandpa, grandma, right? But they took it. Yeah.

Yeah. Does your sister own her land in Texas? Yeah. She bought it? Yeah. That must be really, really powerful. Really important. You don't really?

It got a cheap. Ten, it got. And she. It owns it. Yeah. So that's a big difference from Burma. Yeah, so it belongs to her. So no one bothered the location, that's even your own.

No, no. No one can come and take her animals or her rice or anything. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah, beautiful. It's happy. Yeah. It's a big ball, right?

Yeah. No, that's good. Are you sure? That's good. They'll fit through there. But probably we can just win now. Thank you so much to Nadoe and the

Thank you so much to Nadeau in the Karen community of South Philly, especially at Novick Urban Farm. And thank you for listening and sharing this episode of Seeds and their people with your loved ones. Please also subscribe and please leave a positive review. Thank you also for

supporting our seed keeping and storytelling work by ordering seeds, calendars, and more from our web catalog at truloseeds.com. And please check out our new Patreon in the show notes to help support this work. And remember, keeping seeds is an act of true love for our ancestors and for our collective future.