Seeking Derangements - UNLOCKED SD 13 - 3 AM Moscow Time feat. Glenn Greenwald

Episode Date: July 7, 2020

We sat down with Glenn a few weekends ago to talk Bolsonaro's 'rona resistance, the Bernie/Biden “unity task forces,” and a little throwback to Joy Ann Reid's homophobic blog posts (bring those back, Joy I beg you) intro/// Elza Soares - Som, Amor, Trabalho e Progresso outro/// Willy Santana - Mais Uma Chance

A Juventude Está Querendo Agora Perfect. Great. perfect great all right we're on we've got a very special very special guest glenn thank you for thank you for joining us today i'm thrilled to be here although just to like make clear i was complaining prior to coming on that we're starting an hour late. What a surprise. No, it's because it's a very gay podcast. Glenn's only saying that because it's 3 a.m. in Russia. Got him. It's way past my Moscow bedtime.

How's Russia, Glenn? How are things in Moscow? It's a little cold this time of year. A little cold. I thought you said this guy lives in Brazil. No, Glenn lives in Brazil. That's the cover story. People who are on your replies being like,

Oh, Glenn's tweeting up and Adam at 8 a.m. Russia time. Just like completely. People who are like that on Twitter are just so insane. I love them. Like those people are the level of posting that I need to be at. I thought that was a requirement to be on Twitter. Mental illness. It gives you mental illness.

I mean, that was absolutely. Yeah. But yeah, Glenn, thanks for joining us. How is Brazil, by the way? I saw that there was, I saw some headline that said Brazil had outpaced Italy and Spain in a number of confirmed cases. Is that right? Yeah, like from a COVID perspective, things are really grim. I mean, it's grim everywhere from a COVID perspective, but particularly so here.

And it's been kind of predictable for a while. Like the president of the country is the leading denialist. It's been kind of predictable for a while. The president of the country is the leading denialist. He's been saying from the beginning that it's just a little flu, encouraging people to leave quarantine when everyone thought he had it. He kept leaving quarantine on purpose and throwing himself in the middle of crowds. He was pulling up to people on his jet ski and just spitting in their faces. He decided he was going to have a barbecue with like 40 people,

even though in Brasilia, that like the limit is 10. So the courts are going to stop him. So then he like got a jet ski and just like started going around to different boats and eating their barbecue. So we had like a barbecue on water. That sounds so great. I would love to do a barbecue pub crawl.

That is something you would do. And he fired the first health minister who's like you know a far-right um ideologue which is why he was chosen in the first place but he was a he's a physician so he was like yeah it's not really true like the president keeps saying that there's a cure and it's probably a good idea if you don't go into crowds and that was infuriating bolsonaro so he fired him and hired this oncologist who was like this economist and then the oncologist like kind of reached his tipping point too like three weeks later and then he just quit so there's like been now we're about to have our third health minister in the last four weeks right as we're kind of reaching the top of the epidemiological

curve while the hospitals are in collapse and the numbers are just getting worse and worse so yeah things are pretty pretty now glenn am i having like a deja vu or did we have like three or four different stories like at different points in time uh like bolsonaro had uh like three or four different covet tests done and he just tested positive like two of every you know or one out of every you know two tests that he did every other test just like it's really one week it's actually bizarre because he went to he went like six weeks ago to mar-a-lago to meet trump and hung out with like ivanka and i mean then like on the way back money moves yeah yeah i mean that was the only thing that could have turned trump against

bolsonaro is if like he made a move yeah given COVID to precious Ivanka, to, like, Trump's girlfriend. I really think there'd be, like, war planes over Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo if that had happened. So on the way back, like, they found out that this, like, top Bolsonaro aide had tested positive, and then all these other guys in that entourage tested positive. But I don't know. And all these other guys in that entourage tested positive. But I don't know. I think Bolsonaro might have vampire blood because he did get tested twice. His crazy, deranged, slightly retarded, clinically unhinged son told Fox that the first test came back positive.

But then they denied it. And then he wouldn't show the results. And then finally the courts ordered him to show the results. And he finally just showed the results this week and they did seem to say that it's negative so he's been around hundreds if not thousands of people who are positive for the virus and he just

keeps not getting it it's insane Latina's day winning well Jock he's I think I listened to some Chapo podcast and mad on chapo was saying like he just knows for sure that no evil person is gonna die from it and like when boris johnson was in icu we all thought like johnson had it proven wrong and then still his

record of being undefeated continued once boris left and so yeah i mean it just seems like being evil might be a vaccine against it it It's his sheer athleticism that keeps Bolsonaro from getting it, as he says. I'm an athlete. There's no way I'm going to get COVID. And I'll be healthy even if I get it, which is crazy. I'll give him this. He has top form for push-ups. Did you guys see the push-up video that he did?

Yeah, like the athlete, the super athlete. You have to see it. I mean, it would be like Matt Yaglese is trying to the push-up video that he did? Yeah, like the athlete, the super athlete. You have to see it. I mean, it would be like Matt Yaglese is trying to do push-ups. Like he got in the ground. It was just like he was straining to like just get his shoulders a little bit off the ground while his like ass and his legs just stayed completely on the ground. That looks like something. It would be horrible if he did half of it because i've never seen someone who like spits more when

they speak i mean there are all those pictures of him me giving me giving statements these high def pictures of him and you can just see just like torrents of spittle just coming from his mouth it's well there was one there was one video like yeah you're right he does spit all the time and he speaks especially to crowds so it's just like the spit is doing these projectiles into the like crowds of his supporters like a punk show like the sex pistols or something exactly they just like spit into the crowds of their fans give me some more your corona saliva but like there was this one video where um this is the grossest thing where like it was like right in the middle of people really believing he had it and maybe he did

and he went and like he got out of his car and there was like this crowd of you know crazy fanatics all gathered to just like touch him and he was kind of facing the camera and he like took the like back of his hand like not his palm but just the back of his hand and he like wiped all the snot from his nose and like without

even like clearing it off or washing it off or anything he put out his hand and extended it to this 80 year old woman and she's like oh thank you and she's grabbing his hand and she's like give me some of that COVID-19 I'm so ready for it oh nasty

that's so disgusting we say it's nasty but if he did that to you there's no like I would have licked his hand that very moment. He's big time daddy. Look at all those fucking liver spots in his hand. Oh god.

He has a military thing going on. They call him captain. You can definitely work in some fetish stuff there. And you yelled at me for wanting to fuck Pauly from The Sopranos and now you want to fuck this fascist? Neither of them are my type but you know that's i'm i'm it's just hard to hear how bad things are in brazil what can you what can you expect at this point things just continue to get worse and worse and no good news

no good news even here in america you know i'm in new york i'm in chinatown and it's it's depressing to go outside i mean you can just feel like the death in the air you can feel how depressed everyone is um and i was thinking you know there's something that maybe this is just me being like personalizing this to such an insane degree but there's something distinct about living in latin america under crisis than than it is living in america under insane degree but there's something distinct about living in latin america under crisis than than it is living in america under crisis i mean there's some kind of shared civic memory of activism being effective at least in central america where i've traveled and have lived for extended periods where there is this you don't feel so beaten down like you do in america

where you're just like yeah nothing's ever going to get better there's there's no uh shared history no remembrance of a time where uh activism worked to a degree that right you can still feel it now and in your lived experience although i mean like the civil rights movement whatever you know all of that there were there were real gains made there but they've been so but they've been so co-opted and so scrubbed of anything that could that could lend itself to current like current struggles that it just i don't know this is just my personal sense like i would much rather be in latin america under this where well no but i think i think i think it. But that is, it's an interesting point because, you know, it's not, in Central America, clearly there are, you know, all kinds of grassroots movements that have been incredibly successful

in battling against despotism and tyranny and installing governments that are democratic against U.S. covert wars and the like that have really empowered the population. But in Brazil, too, the same thing. the like that have really empowered the population but on brazil too the same thing you know in in 1985 the country finally mostly through mass protests took down the military regime that had been ruling the country brutally since 1964 when the u.s supported coup toppled the democratically elected center-left government so there's a very recent history of this of a mass movement radically changing the country the problem is that this is is, and this is what I think is one of the more subtle but really insidious components of this pandemic

is that all of that requires human beings to have this camaraderie with one another and then to gather together and be menacing by protesting and going. Think about what this is doing. It's taking what was already an atomized culture another and then to gather together and be menacing by protesting and going think about what this is doing it's taking what was already an atomized culture where we're all kind of interacting with each other one digitally one and already and it's preventing us you know from even leaving our house it's training us to regard every other human being as a potential vector of a fatal

disease yeah even when you do go out you can't even make eye contact with people because their faces are covered. So it is like some kind of terrifying zombie film. So even the capacity in any country now for citizens to gather together and have an uprising or protest or use this pandemic opportunistically to strengthen the citizenry at the expense of power centers is almost entirely impossible by virtue of what we're doing to ourselves voluntarily to prevent infection. Yeah, it's really dismal. And, you know, that makes me think about, okay, well, what is actually happening right now? You know, in what ways is change being made? In which way is the power structure being challenged at all? And these task forces, I mean, I'm sure you've seen this with the Bernie Biden task force. Oh, no, the task force is like the only thing that's keeping me going.

I live under a rock, so I do not know of this task force. There's a task force. I do not know of this task force. There's a task force. Can I tell Jack about the task force? Because it makes me so happy to talk about it. Even the phrase task force just makes the cells of my body rejoice. Educate me, Glenn.

Okay, so obviously it was disappointing that Bernie didn't win for a lot of people on the left. I'm pissed and that there's this like decrepit neoliberal piece of shit warmonger who's gonna now like represent the democratic party as the candidate but like so people were kind of depressed about that until they announced the biden campaign did that they're getting a task force and on this task force they're gonna have like some leftists like um alexander acasio-cortez and like i think ilian omar and they're gonna study sunrise people too yeah and they're gonna study policy proposals with the potential to promulgate left-wing policy ideas that will become the plank of the campaign that the minute biden is inaugurated will be completely ignored but it's like it's a

task force and i mean i don't know what else you can ask for ben like it's ridiculous it's it's like it sounds like a group of traders like incompetent like bureaucracy where it's like it's a committee to to get suggestions for a committee of suggestions you You know what I mean? Like the DNC policy planks mean nothing. They could, this, let's say they put me on it, right? This is like literally just like a mailbox for Lettuce to Santa, like in the mall. Yeah. All those letters are going to get shredded.

No one's going to fucking give a shit. I could be on this task force and say, okay, look, you know, Biden is going to have to draw a clock and say the alphabet backwards. You know, it's not going to happen. They're not going to adhere to any of this stuff. They don't have to. It's so fucking impotent.

And the thing that really pisses me off about it is that is AOC is making this big, this big show of going on it. And she even made a statement that was like, you know, I don't believe that this task force is going to be a task forces don't deliver us real change. Real change only comes from a mass movement of people standing up and and demanding that change be made. And it's like, okay, yes, but why you weren't before you even go into this thing, you're saying, yeah, it's impotent. I don't think it's going to make any change. What is the fucking point of even doing it in the first place you know what i mean like it's not it's it's not going to deliver any policy well it also like she was so honored to be selected and she was like i'm they made her like the co-chair of like one of the bullshit you know committees i am so honored to like have been chosen as the coach here and this and then like her next tweet was like yeah task forces are bullshit like so she's just like playing that game of trying to stay on both sides and be something to everybody and therefore being nothing it's kind of sad to watch honestly like it's all very defensive yeah you know it's like

she's been on a spiral for a while now it's i. It's really depressing to watch. It is depressing. But, you know, I think, you know, if you just put yourself in her position, when she got to the Congress and, you know, started gaining this kind of celebrity and this popularity,

it created huge amounts of jealousy and anger in all those people that she has to work with. And she started feeling frozen out, you out you know like and they made it clear you're not going to get shit done here if you don't job. People don't want to see Latinas winning which is sad right and so if you're her you're like well

if I'm going to be here I want to get stuff done and in order to get stuff done I have to play the game but the minute you start playing their game there's no point in you being there anymore like then you're just another number of theirs and i mean i don't envy her position but it just it really shows that she's she's making the wrong decisions it shows that she she is ingratiating herself within the party and she's only doing it so she can continue to have her her career i mean i mean she seems like a sellout the only the only purpose of these task forces are they're just like a cheap form of insurance for the biden

campaign to say hey you know what look we we tried we we threw a couple bones at the bernie people we've got one of their superstars suggesting giving us suggestions for our policy planks. She's a co-chair, Ben. Don't minimize her. Sorry for doing a co-chair erasure. But she knows that these will be impotent. So that begs the question, what's the point of even being on it? She knows that she's just there to give the appearance of the Biden campaign being sympathetic to the progressive wing of the party. And the most depressing thing about this is that, and this is with AOC, this is with a lot of Bernie people,

we're all under the illusion that they need us to win. And they don't. They don't need us. We have less delegates than we did in 2016. Biden has won pretty handily, right? Biden's electorate, the Bernie people aren't a part of that i mean bernie lost some pretty substantial ground in in rural areas you know we we carried urban areas but biden is writing a lot on like the suburban vote bernie clearly went backward and with all the advantages in the world

in 2020 the dynamic 2016 so like as somebody who kind of devoted yourself to that campaign, how, how do you feel about that whole experience? Like, do you feel angry and frustrated? Do you feel like you achieved some good? What is your general sentiment about the whole experience? I think it, I mean, it's, it's really difficult. It's something I'm still like trying to work through, but my, my diagnosis of it is that the bernie campaign was run by people who did not really um share the same mission as our supporters as many of the the field organizers as the um the public rhetoric of the campaign like none there was no real effort to do the movement building the that was central to bernie's theory of change, right? It was run in a very kind of top-down way.

It was run very similar to like the Obama campaign. The strategy to win did not factor in the need for mass movement at all. It was just like, okay, we will win Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, completely divest from any organization. You know, field organizers will divest all their money from that because after we win these three, the friendly, friendly media will just, you know, they'll coronate Bernie. It's never been done before. No one's ever run the first three states.

At that point, we've got it sealed. We can then set our sights on running against Trump in the general. And that was the operating thesis for the people who were running the campaign, which is... It's cocky. Well, it's stupid because if you really take... It's naive. If you really do believe...

They didn't pay attention to anything that happened up to that point. But if you really believe that Bernie is... You really believe that Bernie is an existential threat to the party, you really believe that Bernie is an existential threat to the status quo, that we are going to follow through on being able to pass Medicare for All, a Green New Deal, etc., etc. I don't necessarily believe all of these things. But that's how you do build that movement. You have to act on that thesis to some degree right not all in all out maybe you know there are a lot of ways in which we we could have ingratiated ourselves with the media to get

some more positive press coverage if that matters but ultimately it was just it was it was not run true to form no because this is the thing it's like well first of all i'm interested in knowing because in your formulation i don't want to say like this too strongly but it did seem a little bit like bernie was more kind of the passive victim and people around him did him wrong and i get this sense from everything i know and people i've spoken with that bernie very much was the decision maker of the campaign so whatever went wrong kind of has to be laid at his doorstep but like the more interesting oh absolutely yeah the i didn't know you don't you're not exonerating him but i like the more interesting thing to me is you know there is a model for how you do an insurgent campaign against every establishment weapon being

deployed against you it's not the most inspiring model but it actually was a successful one which is the trump campaign in 2016 which ran with complete contempt against the republican establishment they ran he ran against bush's wars he ran against wall street and lobbyist and sleazy scumbag k street super packs that had been funding the dead the republican party forever he fucking attacked Barbara Bush, you know? And like, he just was dreaming with like hatred and contempt for like every Republican piety and every Republican leader and never let up, you know, never was like, oh wait, if I'm going to lead this party, I kind of need to like figure out how to, so he never had one foot in the establishment and one foot out. He was just this like fire breathing dragon trying to tear down the whole thing and you have to do one or the other and bernie tried to do both it's kind

of like what aoc did a lot of fence sitting a lot of fence you can't like say that you're leading a revolution and at the same time like constantly heap this like very obviously genuine and personal praise on the leaders of the institution that you want people to topple right it would be like if the french revolution leaders were like well mean, you know who's a really nice guy. I don't agree with all his policies. Like, why would we risk our fucking lives to go like topple this monarchy? When he defeats me, I'll endorse him and work with him. Yeah, it's ridiculous. And it's like, oh, Marie Antoinette means well. I know her personally. I've talked to her before. She didn't have that much cake. She's a longtime friend.

We share a summer home. We went to Vassar together. Yeah, yeah. But it was a lot of the fence sitting on part of the Bernie campaign and Bernie himself. And one thing that really, I don't think a lot of people in progressive media have talked about enough is Bernie constantly saying, opening up every speech with, I believe Donald Trump is the most dangerous president we've ever had.

I believe Donald Trump colluded with Russia, et cetera, et cetera. That alienates a lot of non-voters or a lot of like Trump people who you know there's there's that idea that you know a lot of a lot of people who voted for trump wanted to vote for bernie and that's that's true to some degree but by going out there and immediately saying trump is the biggest problem we face that line closing you're closing the door to a lot of people and that was it you're closing the door to a lot of people and you are you're totally validating the status quo of democratic politics right there you know um i think that to me this is the key right it's like what you said earlier in 2016 bernie was getting like he was winning how not with like the hardcore

democratic partisan votes obviously he was winning with a lot of young people and college town kind of people but then also as you said he was winning with like rural voters and like soft partisans and like people who just kind of hate both parties because they're like, he was a fucking independent, he's not a Democrat. So if you're an independent, if you're somebody who doesn't like either party, he's gonna seem appealing to you, right? He's like been a critic of both parties. So he seems like a no nonsense, no bullshit,

just kind of like nonpartisan guy who just like is gonna speak to the working class. And then it's exactly that that like the more he starts sounding like rachel maddow or nancy pelosi or chuck schumer which he did every single day like i think because people like that those people who want to hear what he was saying we're never going to vote for him anyway right like if you just want the bluest blue democrat you're going to vote for like joe biden who was at obama's side and has been a democrat his whole life and not the guy who's like, I'm not a member of the party. But by sounding like, because the people who, you know, are rural voters and don't identify

strongly with either party, they don't think Trump is the worst. They think things were really shitty before Trump. They're all equally bad for all of these people. You know, it's exactly. And they all leave their mouths on the. The president is self-serving. It's class serving. It's not serving to all the working people or it's not serving any middle class. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

And I mean, and Bernie could have gone up there and said, you know, Trump, Bernie should have gone up there and said Trump is a traditional politician. He's failed you in the way Obama did. He failed you in the way Bush did, whatever, whatever point. Paint Trump as part of the establishment if you're going to talk about him at all. Right. But then making him the biggest threat to America and Russia, an impeachment,

like no one cares about it. It validated this election as a referendum on Trump, which it shouldn't. Like there's a lot more to Bernie's message from 2016 than, okay, is Trump a good president or not? That's kind of beside the point. And it doesn't really matter when you have a country in which infant mortality rates are higher than any other developed country. Postpartum mortality

rates are higher than any other country. You have people in states like Michigan where entire cities don't have clean water. We live in the richest country in the world. We entire cities don't have clean water. We live in the richest country in the world. We don't need to worry about Trump. We need to worry about just basic shit like that. I mean, it's not fucking rocket science. That's exactly it.

The whole idea of, oh, let's just return to like normal america prior to trump is something that a lot of elites find really appealing because they were doing really well prior to trump and they like the idea of the image created by obama about the united states but for huge numbers of people they think that they think pre-trump america is just as shit as current and all the data proves that like skyrocketing rates of depression and anxiety and drug addiction is not coming from nowhere, right? These are warning signs about people's unhappiness. And it is interesting that it's like, you know,

psychosexually creepy as he is, and it's just like hyper competitive and vacant as he is, like Buttigieg did have that message, which is why he stole a lot of those voters from Bernie, like especially in Iowa, which was like, you know, that was his message. The British are swept in rural Iowa. What's that? He did amazing in rural.

British are doing very, very well in rural Iowa. I think it's because his message, unlike every other candidate, including unfortunately Bernie, was we can't talk about Trump. Like he's the cause of these problems. He's just a symptom. And going back to like, all you're doing is promising to just remove Trump and go back to how things were, you're going to lose most people

in the middle of the country again because most people in the middle of the country again don't think America was doing great before Trump. And that should have been Bernie's message and wasn't. Instead, he got like... And the other problem with it too is I think, to me, it reminds me a lot about what happened with Corbyn. Like for a long time, Corbyn's appeal

was that he never changed anything he thought. Like he was the same guy who sat in the back benches on the margins of power and never changed as he like became the Labour Party leader and started, you know, sniffing power. There'd be a terrorist attack and he wouldn't be like, we're going to destroy these evil terrorists. He would say what he always says, which is like,

well, we shouldn't be dropping bombs and invading you know all the stuff you're not supposed to say but people like the authenticity and then finally when he ran this last time everybody knew that he was against brexit yeah like he hates brexit he hate i mean he hates the eu and he was in favor of brexit but he pretended because they like forced him to that he was like a remainer when everyone knew he wasn't so he was saying shit that everyone knew he didn't believe it all of a sudden he lost his authenticity same with bernie like and that's it it's that you get that close to power you start to sniff power and you're like oh god i have to hedge my bets now instead of just putting a fucking cinder block on the gas pedal and going twice as hard i mean that's that's how you that's how you win an

insurgent campaign you can't't get that close to power. Like Trump. You can't flinch at the idea that you might, God forbid, have to wield institutional power at some point in your life. You know, that was the biggest problem. Bernie flinched once and it lost the momentum of the entire campaign. He got too close to power. And yeah, yeah, yeah. And what do we have now?

I mean, we've got a fucking task force. And I get why people are so it is a very desperate time people are people are reaching to anything people are better towards the party for, you know, pulling, you know, unprecedented consolidation of power before Super Tuesday to, you know, align behind Bideniden but i see a lot of people in like progressive media a lot of bernie people right now it seems to me that the only case that we're making against biden is biden is a rapist the sexual assault allegations made by tara reed which i get you know i i understand why people are very animated by that because it's just fun to expose those like pieces of garbage yeah it's like being completely

principle free and craven who can resist spilling a little tea i mean come on exactly it's fun to it's fun to kind of uh point out the hypocrisy of uh centrist lunatics who have been screaming, believe women, not because they actually do, but only for their own personal gain for years and years and years. I've been doing it hysterically without any motivating principle behind it. But the same thing is now happening to Bernie people. The same thing is now happening across progressive media, where we are now adopting a mantra that we don't believe in solely to undercut Biden and solely to kind of catch the Democrats with their pants down.

Which, look, I think if you think that there is a credible allegation of sexual assault against Biden and you don't want to vote for him for that reason, I totally understand. That's legitimate and valid I think that may be a good way to navigate politics whatever but if you don't want to vote for Biden let's not forget here like Biden yeah doddering old you know let's not forget Biden Biden Biden led the charge into Iraq. He was an errand boy for the finance industry his entire career. You know, he basically wrote the 94 crime bill, advocated for cutting Social Security and Medicare his entire career. These critiques lend themselves to something that's a larger structural issue within the Democratic Party and with the Democratic Party at large. Everything you're saying, everything you're saying is true. I generally think. larger structural issue within the the democratic party and with the democratic large everything

you're saying everything you're saying is true um i generally think we tried that and it didn't really work did it it didn't work because democrats don't will neither will screaming biden's a rapist i'm not gonna vote for him that's worse no but that's way worse here i know it is i mean i think like i think there are some people on the Bernie left who like do still believe in the believe women thing and always didn't still do and just like wanted to apply to to benefit. Chair Reid and are generally genuinely angry that like it's not that she that they're exempting believe women for the sake of protecting Biden. But I think most people are just like us who are just kind of like doing it for sadistic fun, like watching them squirm and write articles like we didn't really mean believe women we meant like give them a hearing and like investigate it's like who the fuck was ever against that that's not what you meant anyway that's just a little bit of fun like at the expense of people who deserve to be tormented i think the bigger problem is that um

if you like accept the premise which a lot of people on the left do that America is being taken over by this fascist movement like almost like Nazi like or the equivalent of Hitler or something but even if you don't go that far and you're like super white supremacist Trump was leading this like movement of white nationalism like different from like the white nationalism on which America has always been based

yeah that's always been there I don't know what yeah go ahead i was just gonna say this country was founded on racism and pedophiles i mean like what else are they it hasn't changed yeah this is rape culture has been going on for a trillion years in america or whatever like this is the foundation of this right but like so this bullshit you know first of all i think there's like it people like to believe that they're living under fascism and dictatorship because they feel like their lives are more dramatic and purposeful, right?

Like if you feel like you're not just working against like a standard Republican president, which is in fact what Donald Trump is. The Handmaid's Tale is happening to me right now. Exactly, exactly. And I'm going to be like a warrior and I'm involved in this existential struggle. The thing I saw on TV 30 minutes ago is happening to me. God, I'm just like that person. Yeah, my life's really interesting. I have a big, important historical challenge ahead in front of me. I'm involved in this really weighty war and I'm exhibiting real courage by standing up to fascists. These are things that people want to believe about themselves.

Sure. So if you get people to believe that, which is what but a lot of people on even like the bernie left believe then it kind of it is true like if trump is hitler i mean i guess like voting for biden kind of is the morally obligatory path right so if you like once you accept that premise it's inevitable that you're going to vote for biden that is just a question of like the mental exercises that you're going to engage in about how you're going to justify it so like oh here's a fucking task force that's just like a way of here here's like something you can use you know yes internally as part of your own mental process or like oh we're gonna like you know have a woman as our vice president you know all these little crumbs that

they're going to just throw to make it easier to do what they're going to do yeah yeah that's all they're doing is just like meaningless vacuous symbolic gestures just to make it a little bit easier to do what they're going to do anyway i mean if i were biden i wouldn't fucking worry about the bernie left like the most of those people are going to vote for biden for sure they're very obedient yes absolutely absolutely and i just are all and that's it. The point I wanted, just like Bernie, the point I wanted to make is, is, is exactly that. Like, right. Like we, there is a very robust critique of Biden that, that lends itself to something that can be applied to the next centrist who tries to run. But when you're like, I'm not voting for Biden because he's a rapist, that really leads its way into a kind of identity politics that a lot of

people look, a lot of Democrats did not want to vote for Biden. A lot of them are they're not excited to vote for Biden. I'm talking about moderate centrist party people. They didn't want to vote for Biden. They wanted one of the fun, young, niche, whatever. They wanted a gay one. They wanted a black one black one whatever they did not want to vote for biden because he's an old white man that was a lot that was a lot of those people right and now they're like well you know they're the ones who spent all of 2019 like it wasn't people like us they it was like all those democratic operatives in msnbc cory booker jillian castor like they were worried because they knew biden's brain was melting and they're like we're seeing him at the

head of the polls and they're like holy fuck we're gonna end up with like a senile guy who belongs in a nursing home as like our nominee if we don't do something they were the ones yes like disseminating this all the whole year and then suddenly once their only chance for stopping bernie was was biden they're like how dare you attack his cognitive skills this This is disgusting. I know. There was that moment in the debate where, yeah, Julian Castro was like, oh, did you forget that, Joe? What you said two minutes ago? Do you want some time?

Is it pudding time, Uncle Joe? Let's not forget that. Backtracking like that is like national pastime for these people. I don't think you remember jacques or or ben i don't remember those used to used to write or she'd just be like super catty and like really let those homophobic uh tropes fly and then you know we love the 17 or whatever she was like oh it was hacked you know

the cia put those in their facade or whatever yeah sounds like the colorful dialogue of my building let me share something with y'all today so my building is completely silent which is absolutely shocking this is never happening people are usually drinking on the porch being loud saying things about muslims yada yada yada you know just your regular super fun i'm in denver i am in capitol hill i'm a block away from the capital where all the protesting has been going on again today that's why my building was quiet because everyone's fucking at the capital with their guns no mask on being like we're not gonna to get this Corona. We're going to have fun and America's going to return right back to normal.

And you can't tell me nothing, Jared Polis. So I go outside. I don't even know this is going on. I go to get in an Uber. I look across the street and there's a hundred motorcycles lined up next to him with a bunch of fat white people that look like they have a... Oh, I was terrified. I was like, oh god.

Luckily, this meant the thrift stores were going to be empty since all the bigots were going to be busy at the Capitol. It's only old people and bigots going to the thrift store. I went today. I took a shower after. It's fine. None of the old people or veterans

were clogging up your space there. Oh, yeah. I'm glad. I didn't get called fag once at the fucking thing, you know? And I was looking in the maternity two-piece section, as I do. Sounds like a banner day for old Jacques here. Did you have a mask on? Of course.

I'm not a psycho. Yeah, so I think that interferes with people's gaydar, with, like, gay basher's gaydar. Totally, totally. I kind of, sometimes, I feel like if I dress right enough, I can look kind of straight. I mean, not what I'm wearing now. I mean, just hide that beautiful mustache of yours, and you're gone.

You're out for the races. Jacques dresses like one of the, like, what's that? One of the Golden Girls is kind of your signature style. I often dress either like the Golden Girls or a Street Fighter character. Oh, my God. Blanche. I, too, am a Southern slut. Yeah, you can see Jacques from a mile away.

He's clearly gay. So I don't know about gay bashing ever ceasing for you, unfortunately, Jacques. Even with the mask? Look, it makes you stronger, even with the mask. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's because I keep tracing lipstick over the mask. You kiss the outside of the mask. Bill's character.

I'll tell you what Bill's character, me eating a stick of butter every day. God. Also, when y'all were talking about Pete Bootyhead or whatever his name is earlier, I was thinking to myself, if he was a flavor, he would be unsalted butter. Mm. Okay.

Wow. What happened to him? Have you guys been seeing the rapid deterioration of his physical appearance over the years? Go ahead. You must be confused. I don't watch the news. Yeah, Jacques has no idea what's going on. I think Chastain's cutting his hair.

Yeah, Jacques has no idea what's going on. I think Chastain's cutting his hair. I don't know, but there was that picture of him where you could just see his entire scalp in front. Oh, yeah, no, no, he does look really unhinged during pandemic. I think one thing I saw, one theory I saw, is that he was basically dyeing that during the debates, during all his public appearances, during the entire campaign for him.

during the debates, during all his public appearances, during the entire campaign for him, he was getting a dye drop on the front of his head. And there is a picture out there of Pete at an event, and there is a line of

brown, hair-colored sweat coming down from his forehead. He was sweating so much his hair was running. Dr. Miami appointment to get plugs. Yeah, a little bit more CIA-professed. But I could also see, that is a viable theory. I'm going to take a look at those pictures to investigate that.

But I also could see him just systematically tearing large chunks of his hair out ever since he didn't win. Absolutely. What is that disorder called? He can't go to the pound to beat dogs or whatever. Yeah, like a troubled child whose parents just got divorced. He's sitting in class ripping chunks of his hair out.

Absolutely. Absolutely. What is the disease called when you rip out your hair? I have a theory about... Buttigieg's syndrome. I have a theory about Biden's live streams. have you been watching any of biden's live streams oh god no i like no i have not they're very sad they're very funny um they're very very funny something interesting happens whenever he he gets into his signature kind of like circular uh starts and fits of just like restating a question seven

times until you just totally forget what he was talking about they start clipping him he starts he very conveniently glitches i think i think i think whenever whenever biden starts to sundown simone sanders just hits download on like, she has like a button to like, you know what the scariest thing about Biden is? I'm not even kidding. Like they, like I I'm, I've done,

you know, every cable program there is on TV. Like it's, it's the easiest fucking thing. Like it's more challenging to talk about politics with my 10 year old than it is to do like a four minute cable hit. Like, you know, all the questions you're asking all the questions you just fucking say that the answer is then you're done and like that's it like he can't even do a cable hit like speaking to some you know he'll

like go and talk to nicole wallace who's like treating him like a senile uncle at the nursing company you know how like you adopt that like soft voice when you speak to your elderly relatives because you don't want to like do anything like sharp you'd find at the nursing home you know how like you adopt that like soft voice when you speak to your elderly relatives because you don't want to like do anything like sharp when you'd find at the bus stop like wearing just slippers yeah and you like fake laugh at all their jokes that you're not even really sure are jokes that's how she was treating i mean even then yeah he can't do a cable hit without reading from his notes which already is so worrisome like and but the worst part is even with his notes he can't like he'll get lost all the time. And they clearly said, look down.

Well, he's, he has his notes. He's afraid to speak without his notes, even for a fucking cable hit. So then they're like, Joe, look, if you get lost in your notes, just like throw your notes away and just like be Joe. So like you see it all the time. Cliche like inspirational because right i really fucking hope he has to like get up and in front of a podium in front of like i don't know uh millions of screens because i don't think there's going to be any people there and and have to like ad lib like uh oh like we are the feature of america kind of speech you know like uh we're gonna finally defeat president trump he, he'll, he'll do the thing.

He'll do the thing that people do in like weddings and like rom-coms where he's, he'll be like, you know what? I, I brought a prepared statement with me today, but I'm just going to speak from the heart and he'll take, he'll dramatically raise up the papers, rip them up and then just go into a tirade about how pants used to be different.

And I'll say this once, and I'll say this again. The worst thing you can be is yourself. And this is the Joe, you know, every time he's himself, he sounds like he's having seven mini strokes and can't communicate at all. He sounds like he's having fun.

He looks, there are moments when he's doing these cable hits where he looks, he has that like signature kind of like confused, just look of fear in his eyes, you know, where he knows something is just wrong. Right. And I'm almost positive Simone Sanders is like behind the camera, just like holding a picture of Joe Biden and just like driving her fist through it. Just like... If you don't stay on message, just a picture is like throwing darts at a picture of Joe Biden. She's his campaign.

Simone Sanders is Joe Biden's campaign manager. I wonder whether that's going to work to his benefit. Because Hillary was always so hard and vulnerable and just like aggressive and put together in a way that like was almost off-putting to a lot of people right like that's why she was asked you can see whatever you want i do think like the pandemic is going to be incredibly beneficial he's not gonna have to go out and campaign he basically just like naps all day he wakes up he like does a interview that's gonna like run super pack driven you know

ads is that gonna be the hologram campaign like just biden appearing like on like as a 3d figure but i also do think like even in the debates like when trump was really mean to hillary like no one ever feels pity for hillary because like she's just so you know able to take everything she's just like you can endure anything but like if you're mean to fight it it's gonna you feel like you're watching somebody like be mean to your grandfather with Alzheimer's. No, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, Hillary, it was, yeah, it's easy for Hillary because she is, she's everyone's punching bag and rightfully so. But yeah, there is a certain amount of sympathy people have for Biden. I mean, even, I think he's a horrible, evil person. I'm glad he is in a severe cognitive decline, but like, there's some kind of charm.

There's some kind of charm there to Biden. He's cool. He's just your fun, kooky old uncle that really doesn't have much left. You know he was cool in 1959 or whatever, right? He had 1963. And I mean, also, he has all this tragedy in his life, which also generates a lot of positive feelings for people.

When he was elected to the Senate, his wife and child died in a car accident suddenly. And then he had that son. His remaining son is a crackhead. The non-addict son. How long until Biden forgets? Biden routinely forgets how many grandchildren he has. How long until Biden forgets how many of his family members

have died naming family members of his like when my granddaughter died in that plane crash going over Panama like totally just mixing up the his own personal tragedies it'll happen at some point there's no like physical campaigning

going on because I could see like oh I know doing like a fake bow Biden planting a fake bow Biden at like, you know, at a campaign stop in Nebraska. Like the cancellation risk of doing this podcast was so high. And I think we're in like, sorry, Glenn,

it's a, it's a Patreon. It's a Patriot. Glenn, you're already famous. I don't know why you're complaining. You're already cancelled. You're already cancelled.

If anyone's cancelling you, it's me. Because you don't even appreciate being famous. You come on here. You yell at us for being late. I lower myself. You lower yourself. Glenn, wake up. I'm lowering myself

talking to Glenn Green or whatever your name is God Jesus Jacques having to have a listen to a serious conversation I feel like I'm having to sit at the adults table

are you so miserable I'm not miserable but as soon as i am done with this i'm taking seven dabs and roller skating dancing drunk i did that last night and it was the only freedom i felt in the last year speaking of speaking of project veritas is that this isn't something i've talked before we got project veritas at the bern the Bernie campaign in Iowa what the fuck does that mean really Project Veritas is a like far right wing

group that films all these sting videos they have shut up I'm bored already okay I'm kidding they have they like run like a YouTube racket. They'll send operatives into organizations and film them saying damning stuff and then

release it to sow chaos throughout that particular organization. It's basically like QAnon Jake Paul. Right. That's not going to make any sense. It's going over my head. It's like completely going over my head I know nothing I had a green I tried things different

I heard the echo of that and I was like okay maybe that wasn't a good look look look I tried something different before the podcast this time I tried having a healthy meal before of a healthy green juice instead of having a hundred dabs I had like a glass of coffee green juice. Instead of having a hundred dabs, I had a glass of coffee, green juice,

and some peppers. And that's it. I need to grab my laptop charger. One second. See, Glenn, now you have to deal with this. This is so amateurish. Oh, God. First we started

an hour late, then Ben forgot his laptop charger. Are we just on hold? Can we talk about Ben while he's gone? My lawyers are going to have a field day with him for this. This is not in my contract. And then he's taking forever to put his headphones on. If you can see the video footage right now, people. if you can see the video like nothing's going on for the people that are can't see this right now ben is completely naked and being completely oh my god i demand that not be edited out that amateur we can

we can keep that moment and staying in we don't really care oh i don't really care as much about yourself triple cancel okay we can stop referencing our patrons we love them okay and we respect them um ben hates them we can we can get back on on an issue should we i mean what else is there to talk about the there's that new um the reauthorization of the patriot act and fisa which you know people are people are pissed off because that was there was the uh the amendment to like preserve the privacy of people's online searches that that bernie missed the amendment failed by what like one vote i think yeah but like they always manage it so that it always like fails just by a couple votes i once wrote about this when i was at sawn like 10 years ago and i called it like the rotating villain tactic where like they always

get like just the right number of democrats needed to make like some good bill fail by a couple votes and they always switch who the bad people are who are voting so you can never like find like center on the ones you completely hate like you hate this one for the moment and then they do it again and you hate different ones. But, you know, this is what I was actually getting back to earlier, which is this whole like rhetorical framework about how we're all supposed to regard Trump as like a fascist Nazi Hitler-like dictator and then over and over the Democrats constantly vote

to give him more surveillance power, to give him more detention power, to increase his military budget, like not exactly the way that you would treat Hitler if you really believed in the rhetorical claims you were making. Yeah. So it just doesn't seem very convincing to me. It's not. No, no, no.

It's not convincing at all. It's just another hollow rhetorical tool that they will never hold themselves to. People just want to voice their values. They don't want to actually practice their values they just want to yes present this surfage image that there's some kind of deep moralist well and you know bernie people on the bernie left have to realize that you know we can't adopt the uh a liberal framework uh to kind of point out their own faults and catch them with their pants down. You can do it for fun, but to see it institutionalized in media where people are talking about, oh, you know, don't vote for Biden, he's a rapist, whatever, whatever.

It's not... But what do you suggest then? So there's this critique of Biden that has gotten a lot of attention with the whole Tara Reid thing, I agree, is pretty useless other than for sadistic enjoyment. There's critique of Biden that has gotten a lot of attention. It's a whole Tara Reade thing. I agree. It's like pretty useless other than for sadistic enjoyment. And then there, and like to expose the hypocrisy, but it doesn't really do much beyond that.

And then there's like the most substantive critique of Biden that you articulated earlier that was kind of articulated by Bernie people. But I don't think it did much good for most Democrats because most Democrats have moved pretty far to the right and we're already like more or less with Biden, who seems like a mainstream Democrat. So like what toward what end are you looking for a strategy? Like what is it that you hope to accomplish? I think you just you have to stick to your principles.

I mean, you have to be guided by that, maybe even when you don't know what the exact outcome would be. And what does that mean here for you? I think it means sticking to the most substantive critique of Biden. And, you know, personally on Twitter, say whatever you... No, I'm not going to vote for Biden. Of course not, right? But I think when it comes to, like, Jacobin or current...

Whatever it may be, current affairs, the institutional, to whatever degree, left, they should be more concerned with making a substantive critique of Biden instead of doing kind of, like, click-baity, Biden is a rapist and this is why you can't vote for him. That to me is. But let me ask you. Biden is canceled. Yeah.

It's self-defeating. You can't cancel Biden. Yeah. But let me ask you this. it is for everybody but some for some people if the goal is to persuade as many people as possible not to vote for biden whether because the like delusional hope still remains that bernie can somehow replace him which i think very very few people have that are clean that's crazy for a while that was but at least like getting rid of biden or maybe persuading democrats not to vote for biden on the ground that if biden wins and there's another one of these like neoliberal militarists that are there to send to represent the Democratic Party that's counterproductive to political goals.

If the goal is to like persuade people not to vote for Biden, isn't a better way of an easier way or more effective way of doing that to like try and convince people that he's a rapist and trying to convince people that he has a political agenda that most Democrats agree with? Because look, I mean, given the like liberal mindset where like anything can be compromised in the service of like getting the fascist orange Cheeto man out of office, how many times have you heard someone say basically something to the effect of, well, it's the lesser of two rapists. You know, they're both rapists. Trump has done more sexual assault. They are primed to make that argument. And they think they're smart and responsible for doing that. They already made that decision a long time ago. They already made the decision a very long time ago. And, you know, again, like, a lot of these people don't want to vote for Biden. They hate the fact that they have to vote for someone who is being deemed a rapist, right? But that's just going to say, okay, well, you know,

that's why we can never have, like, an old white man. That is as far as they will allow that critique to go. And that does nothing substantive for building something past Bernie, right? Right, so when I'm asking you, like, what is your objective? What is my goal there? You want a different tactic for what end? It sounds like to me you're saying, look, it's inevitable. You have to have a vote for Biden.

So the question is, how do we make what we're doing now, like the arguments that we're making, the critiques we're voicing, constructive for the next election or for the mid to long term, for building a left populist movement. To have any level of coherency. I mean, I think you need that as a framework to have, yeah, yeah, a left movement. You need to have ideological consistency and coherency. And I see that really lacking right now with a lot of the people who are very bitter and

sad that Bernie lost. It's the same thing you see with like the Hillary Russiagate stuff. You know, they could not handle that Hillary lost when they thought that she should have, that it was stolen from her. I think it's much easier to make that argument for Bernie, right? But to see all of the Bernie left go down this thing where it's like, oh, well, you know, vote,

there was voter fraud. Why it's been with citing exit polls and saying stuff like, that's, that's, you know, it's this really hysteric, uh, kind of conspiratorial, uh,

excuse making instead of, instead of taking this opportunity to take a, to take a, a, a searching like internal moral critique and strategic critique it's just this uh kind of just like rapid fire a blaming of of of everything but yourself right and i think you can say that tar read is is part of that it's a kind of a continuation of that. And I just think that if we continue to go down this lane where it's just, you know, we're not making substantive critiques.

We don't see that reflected in left media. That's just going to that's going to make it all dissipate quicker than than if we were just sticking to our principles to whatever end there may be. Also, just pointing out the obvious that he is this predator doesn't just immediately dismantle rape culture. And him, you know, he's still going to be a politician whether or not you think he's a rapist. I mean, I don't think he's right in any way, but still, it's just not going to suddenly dismantle him as a figure.

Yeah, I agree. It's taking up a lot of oxygen now, like this debate over whether you should believe her or not believe her um i think like i think though that and i believe her completely but it doesn't you know i don't think that it's gonna change the opinion of a nation question but like i i just think that um you know the decision has to be made i think like ben you know just to to do like to be a little bit generous to like angry Bernie supporters. Like,

I think it's normal when you pour yourself into, um, Jack, can you get your dogs under control? They're starting to make water noise. You are not going to blame this on me. You, I think.

Fuck. God damn it. Glenn sounds like the Mexican team member on, uh, you know, call of duty when you're just playing at 3 in the morning, high as shit. You Glenn Greenchild bastard. I apologize to the audience for Jack's dogs.

They are very red-marked. John, could you please get the pack of wild dogs you have in your house? Or mute your microphone or something when they start doing that because it's very disturbing. I thought this was a famous journalist or something. I don't know why he's got some untrained butts this is not my fault that your butts are untrained i'll be nice i think you have your uh diplomas in the background on the wall framed there would be a very beautiful touch the what very uh what were you saying yeah i want to say like i think you know i think i think that like it's

okay to give bernie supporters who are angry and upset a couple of weeks or a couple of months just to like vent against the person they blame for having defeated their candidate because they thought they were going to win which is biden so like he's a rapist he's a piece of shit whatever like i think it's all fine to let people but that catharsis, that emotional catharsis. But I also think that, you know, the, at some point the election is going to be between Trump and Biden and people have to accept that there's just nothing there for the left. There's no beneficial ground there. So just stop paying attention to it.

Like make up your mind if you're going to vote for Biden or not. You know, just doesn't really matter. Just it doesn't need to be debated. It's not that interesting. And then start turning to the question of like what went wrong and how is that going to be repaired and fixed and built upon?

You know, the problem is, is that there aren't that many successful left-wing populist models in the democratic world that are succeeding right now. I mean, I'm in Brazil where the center left won from 2002 until 2018 and now we have this far right government. Obviously the same thing in the UK and throughout Western Europe and in the US. So there's something gone really wrong with left-wing populism as a political model for

appealing to large numbers of people and figuring out what has gone wrong and how to fix that has to be the priority. And none of that is attended to by talking endlessly about Biden and Trump. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think, well, I mean, what else can we talk about here? I think that's a good place to end it.

We're at an hour. Wait, Glenn, reveal all of your secrets. I totally... Yeah, I've gotten pretty much tired of you guys. Yeah. Well, I think Jacques may have some pressing questions for you. It may seem like that. Go ahead, Jacques.

Okay, so, Glenn, what are you going to do from now on to make sure that I am famous and that I can have a piece of your famous pie? Well, I think that you've gotten enough of a dream. I think you've succeeded enough, and I think I need a piece of it. It's fair for me to say. And your dogs were barking, and this is not my fault. And your dogs were barking, and this is not my fault.

All right, I will confess that I think maybe one of the times when the put-upon audience heard barking, it might have been one of my dogs. I will admit that. Only because they heard Jock's dogs barking and got provoked. Okay, okay, okay. First of all, I don't have any mongrels in my house. I don't keep pets yeah you're the only one jock yeah i think you're you you've got that job covered what does ben have a ferret

well i am in i'm actually coming to you from uh what is very clearly not my bedroom i'm in one of the girls bedrooms here because the neighbors are playing really loud music and it's it's quieter in here but it looks like a mariah carey kind of fever dream the walls are covered in butterflies it's all pink yeah it looks like like a cheap mariah carey like spit up on the walls yeah yeah i'd be really worried if ben had decorated this himself yes this is not my bedroom but um yeah i mean i'm glad that you guys invited me it was nice to meet you his stab at This is not my bedroom. But, yeah. No, I'm super excited to be here. I'm glad that you guys invited me. It was nice to meet you. Jacques took his stab at becoming famous.

I don't know how that's going to work. Look, I'll just let everyone know, my ultimate goal with being on this is to be famous. And if anyone's going to stand in my way, I'll fucking kill you. I'm going to be famous I mean you know veterans bigots come my way bitches

I'm not going to be taken down well it's nice to end on such an uplifting and inspiring note you're welcome Glenn thanks so much for coming on we'll make sure you're not cancelled it was great to talk to you

alright guys thanks for having me it was good talking to you all bye guys alright bye What do I need to do to convince you That I don't want to Just enjoy you Moments of pleasure If it's right Your kiss tickles me

Your body makes me lose And I let myself be taken By the savage greed of the air and the earth But I feel there's another thing Please give me another chance But I feel there's another thing Please give me another chance Outro Um, está certo Teu beijo me atiça Teu corpo me põe a perder E eu me deixo levar

Na gama selvagem de dar e de ter Mas eu sinto que tem outro lance A savage woman, a desire to have But I feel you have another thing Please give me another chance But I feel you have another thing Please give me another chance But I feel you have another thing Please give me one more chance But I feel like there's another thing Please give me one more chance I feel like there's another thing

Please give me one more chance But I feel like there's another thing Please give me one more chance Thank you.