Sense of Soul - A Heroic Woman’s Story as the First Female Manger of the Underground Hospital

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

Today on Sense of Soul podcast we have, Dr Amani Ballour she is a distinguished, renowned Syrian pediatrician, human rights activist and author. Dr Amani is recognized internationally for her advocacy for women's and children's rights. She is best known for her work during the Syrian Civil War, where she managed an underground hospital known as "The Cave" in Eastern Ghouta. Her leadership and dedication during this time were the subject of an Oscar-nominated documentary titled "The Cave", released in 2019. Dr. Ballour was awarded the Council of Europe's Human Rights Prize in 2020 for her humanitarian work. She is also the author of the newly released book, her memoir, called the same as the Documentary, The Cave: A Secret Underground Hospital and One Woman's Story of Survival in Syria [National Geographic Books |March 5, 2024] written with Rania Abouzeid. In her book she shares the inspiration behind her new memoir, and her experience saving thousands of lives during Syria's deadly civil war. Watch The Cave Documentary  https://youtu.be/4-2m_xlhqa4?si=q31XWgCVeGqUSoN_ Purchase her book The Cave: A Secret Underground Hospital and One Woman's Story of Survival in Syria https://www.sams-usa.net/reports/saving-lives-underground-case-underground-hospitals-syria/ www.senseofsoulpodcast.com www.patreon.com/senseofsoul

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world. Sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of Soul Patreon member, where you will get ad-free episodes,

monthly circles, and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. I just want to give a shout out to all of my new Patreon members. Thank you so much for your support. And I look forward to meeting you hopefully in our next circle, which is on April 8th, the day of the eclipse. So if you want to join, please go to Sense of Soul's Patreon.

I also want to give a shout out to Feedspot for naming Sense of Soul podcast number one spiritual awakening podcast. Thank you so much. And for today on Sense of Soul, I have a very special guest, a true heroine, Dr. Amani Balor. She is a renowned Syrian pediatrician and human rights activist. She is best known for her work during the Syrian Civil War, where she managed an underground hospital known as The Cave in eastern Ghouta near Damascus. Her leadership and dedication during this time was the subject of the Oscar-nominated documentary titled The Cave, which I would highly recommend, and you can find the link in the show notes. Dr. Buller also was awarded the Council of Europe's Human Rights Prize in 2020

for her humanitarian work, and she's joining us today to tell us her very courageous and inspiring story that she wrote in a memoir also titled The Cave that just released this past week. It is my honor to share her story with you. And you can also find this interview on Sense of Souls YouTube. Please welcome Dr. Amani Allure. So nice to meet you. How are you? Thank you so much. I'm doing well. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing with the world your story and allowing yourself to be a part of a bigger story for humanity. Thank you so much. It's my honor. Tell me a little bit about who you are and where you came from. I grew up in Syria.

I was the fourth girl in my family. I have three older sisters and two boys. We are in a conservative area in the countryside of Damascus. I was very good at school. And then I wanted to be an engineer. I mean, I always was ambitious and I always ask why there is differentiation between girls and boys because traditions which differentiate and allow to boys many things that are not allowed for girls. So yeah, I wanted to be something different something important to approve myself to

say that women can do anything girls can do anything like boys so yeah my father didn't allow me to study engineering and he said this is not something for girls and for women and actually that time I couldn't insist or I couldn't fight for my dream and because I was very good at school I was able to study medicine I mean to be a doctor in Syria that need high remarks so I studied medicine and my father said yes it's okay to study medicine and to be a doctor because doctors have like good position in syria and everyone respect them so i started studying medicine and then i like it and i thought that i will be able to help do a lot of things when i was a fourth year of medical school i decided decided to be a pediatrician.

And I thought that I will work with the children and, you know, make them happy, try to help them. But suddenly, when I was at fifth year, the Syrian revolution started. The peaceful protests started. And then the Syrian regime and its allies started to shoot people, to kill them. Then the war planes bombed and the safe cities targeted everything, targeted hospitals, schools, primary schools, residential areas and killed like everyone who protested against them. I then decided to stay in my town in Eastern Ghouta, next to Damascus. And then the Syrian regime besieged us. I graduated in 2012 and started studying pediatrics, but then the Syrian regime besieged us. I decided to stay and to help the people do what I can do. I have, you know, not long experience, but I could do something. So I believe I can help.

That's why I decided to stay and work. There was a point in the documentary, The Cave, that it was a call from your dad. That you were, and he was watering watering your they were watering your flowers which I thought was very sweet but he made a comment saying you know you were stubborn which I am too and that maybe if you were a boy it would have been easier how did you feel about that like it didn't seem like he was being mean or anything. He, this is just the culture. And how would it have been? If I was a boy, of course it would be easier.

Everything is easier for boys, for men in my community. Everything is easier. They can do what they want. They can be what they want to be. They can study, they can work, they can, you know, but the woman always being criticized for everything she does i mean everything that they consider it's not normal it's normal things but i mean they consider this not normal so like to be a manager of the hospital

it's not normal for them to work in some place like above men. I mean, you are the manager and men working under you. This is unacceptable for in my community. Like, for example, to be an engineer. Yeah, and some other, you know, careers. They think that it's not allowed. It's not okay. And they don't convince you if you ask why. I mean, they have sometimes no answers.

They sometimes say it's the religion, but it's not the religion. I mean, I'm Muslim. There's nothing in my religion other than this. So, yeah, everything is easier for men. I was stubborn according to my community thoughts, to their, you know, to their thinking about. But here, I'm not stubborn. I just want it to be what I want, what I love, what I love, you know, to their think about. But here, I'm not stubborn. I just want it to be what I want, what I love, what I love, you know. So it's not being

stubborn. But, I mean, my sisters were easier than me, like, easygoing with my father. He told them that they have to get married earlier, and they said yes. I mean, but I said no, I wanted to study. That's why he thinks this and i

can totally understand what he's thinking about what he's talking about he when i become a doctor he was proud of me he was talking everywhere and saying my daughter is a doctor and also after after i work in the hospital he was proud of me that I do. Although he advised me not to be the manager of the hospital, he said, you can't do it. Men will fight you. But he was happy because I succeed. And unfortunately, I lost my father last year. Yeah, I couldn't see him.

After like five years of leaving Syria, I was dreaming of coming back to see my father to tell him you know what happened to me I got married I have kids and he wished to see my kids I had one boy only when he he passed away he always wished to meet my husband and my son but this is what happened you know i lost him i couldn't see him again i'm so sorry he did seem like he was very kind feeding your flowers and you know he wanted to let you know there was a little girl in the documentary and i thought what was so interesting, you were talking to her and she had lost her dad. Well, there's probably many little girls who had, but this little girl I found was very interesting, your conversation with her, because you asked her, what does she

want to be when she grows up? And it was almost as she didn't look into the future no more. Like she was just trying to survive. It just broke my heart. Exactly. And this is the situation of the children of Syria. I mean, many millions of children. Many children who were born after 2011 and after this, they were born in the war, you know, the circumstances. They know nothing, only like war, bombing, starving, cold in the winter.

And you know their situation. You can imagine, I mean, they will not think about the future because they are hungry. They will think about how to eat today. I mean, they will not think about the future because they are hungry. They will think about how to eat today. I mean, they are cold. And I hear just a video yesterday, a child said, we are crying of cold. I mean, there is nothing for heating. This is their situation. You can't ask about education, about going to school, about, I mean, this is very important for children, but this is the whole generation situation.

So I wanted to write this book also to tell their stories, their situation, to, you know, spotlight about this, remind the world to forget about Syria. I mean, everyone forget about Syria, especially there's many crises in the world now. And yeah, these children are still suffering. Like UNICEF said like a few years, like two or three years ago, that there's 2 million child can't go to school. They're without education. I mean, 2 million, this is very big number. Maybe now it's higher. And a lot of organizations now cut off or less humanitarian aid, which was delivered for Syria. So this is, you know, perfect. I mean, can you imagine the situation of their children now? Do they have hope? What are they thinking about? I can barely even stand it. But I don't want to be ignorant to it either. I don't want to turn my cheek and not know. So I think it's important to know. Tell me about the cave. Well, you know, we moved working underground because of the Syrian regime

and its allies were targeting hospitals. They bombed many hospitals in the area. So we moved underground. It was like a basement. And the big building, you know, it's supposed to be a hospital, but we worked only in the basement, hiding from bombing. And, you know, we expand this place, you know, day by day by day year after year because we stayed there for more than six years so we needed this place every day bombing in massacre sick people diseases because of you know hunger because of coal because of uh they have this disease especially children

so we expand this hospital make it big and you know supply this as as we can i mean we smuggle by the tunnels we smuggle some medical supplies some medicine some food so we wanted this place to be a real hospital i worked there since we started i mean it was like two rooms two small rooms and then it becomes the central hospital in the area. So I know very good what the hospital needs. I know what we need to improve, what we have to do. I had a plan to develop the hospital to help people more. And I thought like I'm a doctor like other doctors who were the managers, so I can be

the manager of the hospital I mean this is what I think I thought I mean but you know and also my colleagues believed in this and they elect me we were like 13 doctors and one of them suggested to me to be the manager and I said yes I can do this and they elected me so yeah after this I become the manager and you know I was very excited to start my plans to improve the hospital to do all that you know I think about but suddenly I you know met many men in my community said that no you are a woman you can do that many of them said we don't want a woman to be a manager of the hospital especially I remember the young guy who was working with us in in the lab his lab diction and he was very young like in 20s and he's educated I mean I was working with him before I became the manager so he said to me

we have no problem with you you are our colleague but we don't want a woman to be our manager. I mean, that was, you know, not like when other men in my community, like older men say this, because I know my community. It wasn't a, you know, surprise to hear this from them. But I mean, also the educated, the young men who say this, that was very bad to hear, especially in a war time. I mean, this time you want to oppress women. I mean, we need each other to live together in these very bad circumstances.

So yeah, that make me insist to continue. And I said, no, I will not give up. I will succeed this position because that make you know if I failed they will say about every woman that you they will say you know we try this woman and she failed you know you can't but if I succeed they will say yes we had a woman and she succeeded and finally in 2018 and before we left, the Syrian regime destroyed many, many of the hospitals around us. And my hospital stayed. We make it protected.

We have enough. I mean, not enough, but we have a lot of, you know, medical supply and medicine that we could help, really help in many massacres and save lives. So I remember some man came to me and said, you were right, and you did a great job. And I was proud to hear this and was very happy. I mean, I made off, you know, everything better than us, but I was happy to hear this. I felt like I achieved something for other women, not only for myself. Like how old were you then? I was when I became the cancer 29 in 2016 I was 29 yeah yeah you know the circumstances around us make makes us always older maybe or you know that wasn't my my thoughts of my mind before the war I mean I was just a medical student. I have my dreams become,

when I become a doctor, a pediatrician, everything changed after 2011, everything. I just was thinking about the war, the bomb being the hospital, you know, seeing only blood and destruction around us. Everything we see is, I mean, it's terrible. So yeah, everything changed. Now I feel like I have this, it's long experience. So I feel I'm really older than many people who are in just, you know, the numbers of age. They are older than me, but I feel now my experience make me older. And also it makes me feel, I mean,

feel the people feelings, the people who are suffering. I can't feel them. I mean, when I see now in Ukraine,'s suffering I can't feel them I mean when I see now in Ukraine in in Gaza I see people are suffering I really feel them and I live the same circumstances so I can I mean I can feel what what they feel and I imagine the situation there there was a quote that I had read that a president had said here in America, he was the president when I was born, and he said,

we will not find peace by killing each other's children. Exactly. Exactly. This is horrible. The children always, you know, they pay the price of these wars that they have nothing to do with it. I mean, it's unfair, you know. I remember especially the chemical attack in Syria. I witnessed this and I started my book writing about this because it was, you know, the worst

thing I witnessed. I remember many, many children, the dead bodies of children, they only inhaled the poisonous gas. It was the sardine gas and they died. I mean, they were hungry. They were afraid. They were cold. And just, you know, how can these people think just it's easy to kill like everyone, to target a whole city with a chemical gas? I mean, this is really horrible. No one can explain this.

Yeah, I saw these kids. They were dying in front of our eyes. We could do nothing for them. Many kids, they need a lot of work. There are emergencies, so we have to do something very quickly. And we were only a few doctors, some volunteers. We have not enough resources to help them so that was horrible and now seeing you know children are being killed

the children suffering it's really horrible i can feel this i mean yeah i just can look at my children i think i mean you know all the children are innocent they have nothing to do with this war and this bombing you know i have no not fair it's it's disgusting it's evil it's pure evil yeah i just can't even imagine how did you manage to stay there for six years? I never expect that I will witness these massacres and these earthquakes, you know. I just was, you know, I stayed because I wanted to help. And many doctors fled at the beginning. So I see that I can do something, so I can stay.

And it started when I see a little child, he was like 12 years old, and they shoot him in the head because he was walking next to the demonstration so he died i mean i saw this child my neighbors called me to to help them and he was just dead when i went there so i thought i mean these people need help if i can do something, I have to stay. Then, you know, we start to see, I mean, the war plans, pumping us, pumping hospitals, start to see these wounded and casualties everywhere.

I mean, they cut off food and medicine. And then in 2014, we were really hungry. I mean, we had nothing to eat. And I saw some children died because of the starvation. I remember a friend of mine has twins and they died because there were no baby formula for them and she couldn't feed them and they died. They just was dry and she always asked me to help and I could do nothing. I mean, they need milk.

So yeah, that happened year after year. And we were really hopeful that something good will happen. Maybe the international community will help us. Maybe, I mean, the UN, someone can stop this siege. I mean, just send some baby formula, some food, some medicine for the children. I mean, for the conservations for I mean for these people who do nothing but yeah this this doesn't happen I mean we waited and waited and we were really hopeful we were looking for the Security Council uh meetings and we said maybe something

will happen but nothing happened I mean I had this chance to leave by the tunnels when we make the tunnels but i said i mean there were not enough doctors and if i could help i have to stay again and decided to stay till 2018 they forced us to leave and they they re-controlled the area after a big military campaign from syria and russia, the Syrian regime and Russia. And yeah, they bombed every second, like for one and a half months. Very, very, you know, heavy bombing. They killed a lot of people and they then forced us to leave. They said, you leave or we kill all of you.

So yeah, we had to leave. Oh my God. We kill all of you. So, yeah, we had to leave. Oh, my God. Now, you also were able to have found love in your life during this time as well, which is hard to imagine, you know, in this situation. But he brought you hope, I heard you yes yeah you know life just continues and yeah i left syria to turkey and i met my husband there and you know started our journey as syrian refugees and this is you know there's a lot to talk about this, but yeah, we end up here in the U.S. We have kids. So I'm happy because I have, you know, family and I'm safe here now and I'm doing my best, but I could do, I mean, to help everyone who's still suffering. I'm working

now as advocacy officer in the Syrian American Medical Society and also this organization we try you know to help to do our best I mean this organization doing great job they supported the cave hospital when I was there and now we support many you know medical facilities we make medical training especially for females we like for example we graduated nearly 100 midwives they make you know huge impact on the in syria in northwest of syria so yeah this is what we do help the refugees especially in neighboring countries turkey jordan lebanon there's a you know, to do for these people. I mean, millions living in camps now. And you know the situation in camps.

So they need everything. So yeah, we try to do our best with other organizations. But you know, this is never enough. People still need more. Yeah. And then I think about even the natural disaster that hit Turkey and Syria, but Syria was just as affected, was it not? And in the areas that were already struggling and under war. there's no like formal government for the area in northwest and it it was like really a big disaster for the area it affected everyone it killed a lot of people and the humanitarian aids was late like

for a few days to enter there i mean yeah no one talked about syria many um some countries they helped the syrian regime although the the earthquake hit more in the northwest. I mean, these areas that are out of the Syrian regime control. So, yeah, they really needed help. It makes their situation worse and worse. And now, you know, still the impact of the earthquake now, still people are suffering. Many buildings were destroyed and many people just were homeless is the cave still around today or no the cave is in the syrian regime areas and the syrian

regime decided to close it after we left so they just close it you said that there are still you know millions of children who are suffering over there. Are they still at war today? Well, I mean, every time, like in many times, the Syrian regime and Russia continue to bomb these areas. It's not like heavy as we were there, not heavy bombing, but they bomb it. So, I mean, a few weeks ago, they bombed, they continue to bomb. I mean, they don't leave these people to live,

I mean, in the camps, but don't leave them alone. They continue to kill children, like two or three months ago, they bombed the children where they leaving their schools and they killed two children. So yeah, the situation of this area is really is really bad still bad yeah are you still struggling or do you well i'm assuming that you still have some ptsd over it what are you doing for yourself today and you know and what do you

suggest to anybody who you know has dealt with this kind of trauma, who is trying to move on? And like you said, have to go on and live. Exactly. I'm, you know, I'm trying to continue being hopeful because, you know, people there are, you know, they still need us. They need help. And we could do something. I mean, you can be happy if you give like some food for a child if you help a child to go to school that helps us you know more than helping them so this is what

I'm doing now try to help everyone advocate for them doing what I can do telling their stories everywhere and this book I mean that was my goal of writing this book my co-author Rania and I you know you know decided to tell these stories for other people not only you know to read the story and and forget about it I mean to tell everyone that you can help I mean you everyone you can help these children if you feel like you want to. You can help everyone in the world, all the people who are suffering. You can, you know, tell their stories, like talk to the politicians about them, for example, parliament members, truth about Syria. And you can donate, for example, donate for the organization who still do not support the, I mean, a lot

of organizations supporting education, supporting health work, supporting everything there. You can donate for them, talk about them, speak up. I mean, that helps. That really helps. Everyone can do their parts. I'm doing my part. And when everyone does their parts, we know make a huge impact on the area you know i think that it's so powerful that you are using your voice and telling their stories

for a woman especially do you feel like the more you do share your story, that is more healing for you? Yes. You know, I think a lot before writing this book. I mean, I took like two or three months, maybe more thinking that should I write this book? Because, you know, it's not easy to write a book about very hard experience. I mean, to remember all the details again, and I lived this and I suffer enough. And now I have to remember everything in detail. Like I remember every child I met, every child I treated with, you know, writing about everything, about their voices, about how

they look, how they cry, what they ask me to do. I mean, just for example, when I ask a child about their pain, for example, they say, I'm hungry. Or the child who lost his hand while bombing and he said, why you cut my hand? It's not easy to remember this. It's a very hard experience. But then I thought a lot and I found out that it's very important to tell these stories for the victims, for the children. I mean, to try to get justice for them.

We shouldn't forget them. And to try to help the others who are still, you know, living, as I said, in camps or everywhere in Syria. People are suffering. The air is controlled by the Syrian regime. Also, they are oppressed, you know, and they have also suffering. I mean, the high prices, they suffer to get food and medicine and everything. So I think this is really needed. And I had to do this.

I mean, tell everyone through this book about these stories, about what people need, and tell everyone that you can help them. Oh my God. We need more human beings like you in the world. We really do. Thank you so very much for sharing your story. Do you know of, like, a reputable, like, trustworthy organization that people can donate to? Because I think that that's also a concern

there's so many you know scams out there and you know if you do donate money like you want to make sure that it's you know just someone who is legit well I you know there's many trusted organizations actually I I'm not sure if I mean you sure if I can say and forgot something. But I worked for the Syrian American Medical Society, which is called SAMS. That's why I mentioned this organization. But there are many, you know, many organizations you can trust. Just to reach about this, it's not hard to find it. You know, it's big organizations.

A lot of people donate for it. So, I mean, it's not hard. Let me not, you know,'s big organizations a lot of people donate for it so i mean it's not hard let me not you know mention some i forgot um i mean many organizations are really help people there and yeah and so your book is it's um available now on 5 march how exciting are you excited really excited so yeah i wish everyone can read this book and you know try to help in syria in many way or other who allowed the cameras to follow you around for for a long time how long do they follow you around to make the cave documentary nearly for two years oh that's a lot to have cameras following you it's a lot you know it was very hard at the beginning but then you know we can focus on many things than the camera so

there were you know many things to work on so i forgot about the camera after just you know maybe one or two months i really forgot about the camera how old are your boys i my oldest boy is two years old and have i have seven month old twins oh my gosh you are busy right now then i'm very busy everything but it's not easy oh oh my god i can't even imagine it is yeah it's really hard oh my gosh are you getting are you getting any sleep i'm trying you know and i have no family here so you know this is uh i'm happy with these kids um i think they are like a gift from God. I mean, yeah, that's just happy with them.

At least they're safe and they can sleep safely in their beds. And you can sleep sound too, knowing that they're safe. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's why I'm really happy to have them here around me warm safe and i wish this for everyone and i wish honestly that you could have had this in syria inshallah inshallah hopefully you know the situation will get better we wish this time to do our best yeah i do i wish that you know that all children in the world could sleep comfortably safely with their parents and

get up and go to school i mean they deserve that it looks it looks very simple like it's not a dream i mean to go to school right and that wasn't a dream in syria before i mean now just to feel warm is a dream to live in a house is a dream to go to school is a dream i mean it was like this it's really simple it shouldn't be like this yeah so terrible no you've really put me in a place of gratitude, you know, today. And I think that we don't know how good we have it here. And I think that by hearing these kind of stories, you know, some people say don't watch the news, but, you know, maybe pick and choose, you know, what news you watch or how much, because some of it can be,

you know, very damaging and depressing if you watch it too much. But I feel like it is ignorant not to know what's happening in the world. I believe that everyone have to know. I mean, not watching like the scenes that make you, you know, heartbroken and make you depressed, you know, sometimes, you know, it's not okay. I mean, we don't need this. We don't want you to watch an amputated children, you know, these children who are bleeding and crying. This is really heartbreaking. I mean, but just at least you know about them. I mean, you know about the situation, about the truth.

Because you have to try to help. I mean, everyone have to try, you know, to help these people. It's responsibility as human beings. It's, you know, our role of this to help everyone. So, yeah, just you have to know about them. I think technology, it's a blessing and a curse. You know, I mean, it's beautiful that I can see you and we're together in this space. And it's a miracle that we are.

But it also creates empathy. Where long ago, we didn't know, we couldn't see it happening. So I feel like our generations are getting more empathetic. Like you said, you can feel when you are hearing and watching what's going on in Ukraine and in Gaza. It's that double-edged sword. It's like ignorance is bliss when you didn't know what was happening. But I think that it's causing humanity to become more empathetic and to be more compassionate human beings. Hopefully. Exactly.

And this makes, you know, more responsibility for us. I mean, when you know, and you do nothing, that's, you know, I see that it's responsibility. It's like a duty it's just something not if you want help or not you have to help everyone yeah i mean imagine that you have this circumstances that your city there's something happened i mean like natural disaster or something and imagine that everyone knows about this and they do nothing. This is, you know, this is not life as a human being. Before this, we don't know. So we have this excuse, but now you know.

So you have to do something. I don't mean something like you can't stop the war. You can't, I mean, you can't make this criminal president leave. But you can just, a donation, just speak to the politician in your country, in your city about this, make pressure. And they, you know, we need this president and his

family to leave the country so we can, you know, go back to our country, rebuild it again, and you know, make peace. When we're sitting in our homes and we're complaining about like the most stupid shit when across the world there's a child hungry in danger of being bombed at any minute it just gives you a different perspective on life and i tell you what i know that the younger

generations are coming into this world more compassionate because of the things that they are exposed to and what you said, that responsibility. It's not that we, I, me and you, we are the same race. We're human race. Forget the countries and the genders and all of the labels. We are all part of the human race. We are all brothers and sisters exactly this is my idea always you know and this is what i try to tell everyone just you know to care about each other and i really see the young generation especially in the u.s here in the west in general in europe

they they really care about others i mean example, when the documentary were shown somewhere and I see young guys are attending and they ask about Syria. You know, Syria is far from here. I really, this is, you know, something promised, something that can't change the world. Young generation will change the world. They, you know, ask to stop this war, stop this, you know, crisis. So this is very good for us. When you think about kids, you're a two-year-old and he goes to the park,

everybody at the park can be his friend. He doesn't care who or where you, what neighborhood you're from or, you know, they haven't been damaged by all of the different systems that all separate us. That's why I know my children. I have children from 26 to 11 and they are so peaceful people, not just for humans. They care about earth. They care about animals. They care about things that I never

thought about as a child so I only hope that we're getting better with each generation yeah hopefully this is really make us optimistic yeah are you planning on maybe becoming a doctor here in America you know with the kids now you know, my medical degree is from Syria, so it needs to be certified here. So I have to study. At least, I mean, I need like three years of studying to make it certified, to be able to work as a doctor here, as a general doctor, also without specialization. It's not easy, but I'm waiting for my kids, you know, to be a little older. Maybe, you know, there's a lot to do now, so I can just sit at home. That's why, you know, I have always to do things. That's why I continue working with organizations to do my best.

Well, tell everybody the name of your book and where they can find it. The book is called The Cave and it's the same name of the documentary and the National Geographic who published this book. So it will be, you know, available to where you can buy it online or from the bookstores. It's on Amazon also. So yeah, I wish everyone

knows the truth about Syria and then shall be able to help. I can't wait to read it. I'm watching The Cave. I think I'm like 40 minutes in. know the truth about Syria and then shall be able to help. I can't wait to read it. I'm watching the cave. I think I'm like 40 minutes in. You are so true to yourself. I just feel honored to be in your presence.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Hello, my soul seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world. Sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of

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