Sense of Soul - Accepting You’re Flawesome with Kristina Mänd-Lakhiani

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast we have Kristina Mänd-Lakhiani she is the co-founder of Mindvalley, the world’s most powerful life transformation platform with an ever-growing 20 million-strong following. She is an entrepreneur, writer, international speaker, artist, and philanthropist based in Estonia and the author of two Mindvalley programs: Live by Your Own Rules and 7 Days to Happiness. Kristina’s content has touched the lives of tens of thousands of students by providing wisdom, life hacks, and healthy habit-building formulas curated and inspired by her 20 years in the personal growth industry. She has created life-changing courses with the field’s leading experts, such as Lisa Nichols, Michael B. Beckwith, Neale Donald Walsch, and many more. Kristina hosts her own podcast, Honest Conversations, and has interviewed over 200 specialists in the field of psychology and self-development. Kristina began her career in the Estonian government, followed by holding positions in non-profit organisations such as Oxfam and the United Nations. At the pinnacle of her success, she made the decision to leave her high-level job, move across the Atlantic, and start over—all in the name of love. Kristina married the man of her dreams and gave birth to her two darling children: Hayden and Eve. Her entrepreneurial adventures continued into motherhood, and Mindvalley, a company she and her then-husband co-founded together in New York City. Taking Mindvalley’s expansion into post-soviet countries, Kristina found that there were many ups and downs in her journey to recovering from perfectionism. From a divorce and losing a powerful business partnership, to moving countries due to the Covid-19 pandemic of 2020, Kristina was challenged to face her shadow side, her fears, and her insecurities. As opposed to hiding her flaws, she went on to embrace and integrate them, loving herself not just despite them, but because of them. Kristina rediscovered who she really was and uncovered how to live true to herself, regardless of the toxic perfectionism that permeates our culture today. She now believes life is too important to be taken seriously; and chooses to live authentically through the flawesome philosophy highlighted in her latest book. You can read a Free Chapter https://spi021.isrefer.com/go/chapter/Senseofsoul22/ https://www.mindvalley.com/books/flawesome https://kristinamand.com Visit Sense of Soul at www.mysenseofsoul.com YOU CAN LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE Ad Free on Sense of Soul Patreon for Free! Sense of Soul Patreons recieve 50% off of Shanna’s Soul Immersion experience, monthly Sacred circles, exclusive mini series, Sense of Soul merch and more. https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul Follow Sense of Soul Podcast on Social Media: https://www.facebook.com/SenseofSoulSOS

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world, sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate like and subscribe and consider becoming a sense of soul patreon member where you will get ad free episodes monthly circles and much more now go grab your coffee open your mind heart and soul it's time to awaken don't forget to check out my website mysenseofsoul.com, and go check out our new affiliates on the Network of Lightworkers page. There's some good opportunities for everyone to work with some of the amazing guests that I've had on recently.

But on today's episode, I have with me Christina Mann-Lacchiani. She is an international speaker, an entrepreneur, artist, philanthropist, mother of two, and co-founder of Mindvalley. She's joining me today to tell us about her new book, Becoming Flossom, a celebration of our whole selves, warts and all, and the glory that is to be found in living in our truth. Welcome, Christina. Thank you for having me. Yes, thank you so much for joining me. So let's just jump into this.

Can you tell me a little bit about yourself? And I'd love to hear a little bit about how you came to creating Mindvalley. To the question, who am I? I guess it's the hardest question. We keep asking that question from the moment when we start thinking abstract all the way to our last breath, or at least the humanity has been doing that. But if I were to recite my credentials from the bio, then I'm an entrepreneur, co-founder of Mindvalley, a writer and author. These are the major things which are relevant to this conversation. As to Mindvalley, I'm a co-founder, so I've been with Mindvalley from

the very beginning. In fact, usually when people ask me how I ended up in Mindvalley, I say I registered it, which is true. But on a less serious note, or maybe that wasn't very serious already, I ended up in Mindvalley by accident and it wasn't my plan in my life. I was pursuing a completely different career, but I gave up my successful career in Estonian government at the age of 25 because I made a choice for love. I actually married and moved to New York and having moved to a completely different environment, of course, my government career in Estonia didn't make sense there anymore. So I had to start from scratch. And what made matters a little more complicated,

I didn't have a work visa because my then husband was also a foreigner. So the best thing I could do was to help him with Mindvalley. And that's how I ended up doing it. But for a few years, I was still searching myself, coming back to your question about who I am. And I went to upgrade my education so that I had easier chances finding a job in a Western world because I was born in Soviet Union. But I never used this education for finding a job because I ended up

actually doing much more of my own my own things than than working for someone so that's a very short intro so it seems like part of your self-discovery and everything that was a part of your journey you know even before Mindvalley then yeah's i wonder i i mean uh we have a certain personality and i guess uh being a little bit more in my head and a little more philosophical probably was always part of it uh also i love literature so i'm quite sure everybody wonders who i am i think when i was a very little kid at some point, I had this weird idea across my mind that what if I am the main character and everybody else and everything else is just revolving around your own existence. Later, I found out that apparently that's a pretty interesting illusion, which is not very unique to me. Right?

Yes. Yeah, that's interesting to think of, isn't it? So when you talk about how you love literature like what kind of books for your reading or what like what's your fave I prefer classical literature from a little older days somehow I do not know maybe because it's a slower pace kind of adventure and it gives you time to just enjoy and be in this other world. My favorite authors are Bulgakov, Jane Austen, Dostoevsky, definitely. I like Bronte, this kind of literature.

And your new book coming out, Being Flossom. I mean, that's freaking awesome. Flossom. What is Flossom? I believe Flossom is when you find peace with your imperfections. I don't have a very set definition because it's an orphan word I found on internet and I adopted it and because nobody else wanted it, it's mine now, but not completely mine. There are a lot of different ways to look at this.

So I believe that my book is, in essence, a tutorial to your journey back to you. And Flawsome is a unique destination. So the essence of it is that you embrace your imperfections, you embrace yourself fully the way you are. And you maybe revel in it in some way. But what it means to be flawsome is up to the reader to decide. I like that. Well, you know, it reminds me of this word that one time, it was when my oldest daughter was in middle school. So it was a long time ago.

And this girl said, you're so purtiful. And I never forgot it. I think it's such a cool word. I love fun words. I actually love when kids come up with their own words. It makes so much sense. Totally. I love it.

But you know, a lot of people are going inward to find out really truly who they are, not who the world wants them to be, not the government or the society, all of these things. They're really searching for who I want to be when I grow up. And I have two kids in their 20s and I've seen this and thank goodness I have awakened more to allowing them the space as they've gotten older. But at first, when they were younger, I mean, I totally had it set what they were going to be. You're going to play baseball, you're going to do this, you're going to believe in this, which is so unfair. How I put them in a box, even while I was pregnant, they were going to be these things. Well, it's a it's a little more precise definition, but a lot of us, whether we like it or not, we still define for their kids what they're going to be. They're definitely going to be

successful and happy. It's a problematic wish because there's research. I actually haven't looked into it, but I keep coming across that article that proves that it's not in our hands to make sure that our kids are happy i know i know it's their journey that was such a huge awakening for me as a parent to realize that oh my gosh every time i was trying to catch them for making a mistake and not wanting them to suffer through things it's hard for me for me to not want to catch them and make everything right for them. But yeah, ultimately, as long as they don't stay in the suffering, right? It's actually life lessons.

Well, it's not even the question whether we can do anything, should we? But very often people get their life experiences because there is a lesson to be learned. And I'm not saying that it's kind of divinely predetermined. What I'm saying is that if you're experiencing a certain thing, then on a very practical level, probably you're lacking a skill to deal with that thing. That's why you're experiencing it. So very often when we, out of best intentions, try to solve the

problems for our children, what we do is that we deprive them the ability to deal with regular life. And research does show that contemporary youth, people who are in university right now, who have been subject to a lot of helicopter parenting, their executive functioning is much lower than, say, 20 years ago. So it's not a very far-sighted decision to solve your problems for your children. But with that said, as a mother, I understand that your heart might be hurting

looking at your child doing things which you know are maybe not right. And the answer comes from an unexpected place, at least to me. There was the song, I think it was about four or five years ago, very popular by Tom Walker, Live Your Light On. It's a beautiful song. It's of course, it's actually about drug addiction, but the message is very strong. The best thing you can do for your loved one is not to solve their problem, but to leave your light on for them, no matter what happens.

That is such a good lesson. And you know, what's really interesting is that as my children were coming into themselves in their late teenage years, I was coming into myself. And I am coming into myself so late, because I didn't have the space, you know, that I've actually given to my kids. So I think this kind of book right now, for this time, a lot of people, no matter what generation, it's going to be beneficial, because no matter where you are in life, no matter what age, this is something that we're kind of always seeking is like, what is my purpose? Who am I? What is life about? You know, what am I here for? I really hope you're right. And when I was writing this book, maybe because I'm so fascinated by all the literature, I was always wondering, I wonder if what I'm saying would be relevant 200 years ago, of course, humanity is going to evolve. And some of the questions that

let's say, authors of the 19th century were trying to answer a little bit, maybe not as sharp nowadays, but still the philosophy doesn't change. humanity although our civilization kind of grows but our psychology or our relationship with life and with ourselves and with each other uh it's uh it's in essence the same well that's kind of ironic because just last week i read the book the republic by plato well it's a it's an educated guess there's a lot of um stoics are super popular right now i do have my own uh concerns with their teachings but unfortunately them has lived to this day to argue with me but it is so interesting because i've also been studying like the last gospels that are not so popular you know and i studied the gn Gospels for a few years and it's so true though a lot of the stuff is relevant for today even when we're talking about like you know holistic

medicine and stuff like that people are really interested in that today because they don't want to take a medication that has 15 letters in it and they have no idea what's happening. Well we or maybe we should learn Latin and then it wouldn't be so intimidating. You know to make things even scarier a lot of the research is done on animals and then translated into humans so you know we may say whatever we like but we are in essence and in fact our brain still works the same way it worked in the humans who lived 12 000 years ago so you know we might want to flatter ourselves that we've gone very far, but I'm sure there were pretty woke and spiritual people very long time ago.

I know. And I've seen that too, because, you know, researching all those things, I was finding that a lot of the practices people were teaching today are just actually ancient mystery school teachings terminology is different but it's pretty much the same methods by the way very mindful of you that you would consider would this be beneficial and still relevant in a hundred years because I think that that's kind of like the goal is to create content that's evergreen it's interesting you pointed it out I to create content that's evergreen. It's interesting you pointed it out. I've never thought about it this way, but I would agree.

I think we as a society have become a little too superficial. There has been also, it has been noticed that our attention span has shrunk so much because we've been fed this bite-sized information for a long time, starting with the news, but then also all those sitcoms came, the reality shows, all those things, soap operas, everything. I'm not very versed in that, but I do watch movies, by the way, but just not super long ones. And we as humans have stopped being able to consume big quantities of information and our attention just goes away but I also know that humanity goes through periods and it's there is a pendulum Theory which I don't know very deeply to explain it but it in essence what it says is that we go from one extreme to another over a span of some kind of cycle i think we're going to get fed up with bite-sized information at some point and crave for deeper deeper knowledge and and slightly slower slower pace and maybe

maybe nature forced us into that when we were stuck at home for a few years so i believe i believe that things come back. Fashion comes back. Platforms came back. Mini-skills came back. So true. That's, yeah, that's, you know, I've been hearing a lot about that. I think it was last night I was listening to this one YouTube. It's called, it's like Jason from Archaics. And he was talking about like 138 years.

It was like something very specific. And actually I fell asleep to it. And I was like, I got to remember to go back and listen to this. But, you know, even in our own lives, you know, we go through these cycles and I know for myself, like I'm in the crone phase and I'm letting my hair go gray. And I'm like embracing this wisdom that comes with age and not rejecting it. And I have a lot of, you know, friends around me that are having a hard time with getting older. And I'm trying to find like that maiden within me again, that playfulness and, and that is not always physical, but it's an energy that never dies within you. It's part of you. I'm not afraid of getting older. I'm not afraid of, you know, change in that way any more than I would have been, you know, had I been not

able to connect to that deeper part of myself than if I was just superficial. It's an act of rebellion though nowadays, because we live in a society that not only adores bite-sized information, it also adores youth and beauty, which is particularly hard on women. The journey for men is a little lighter. And you might say that I am making stereotypes, but we do appreciate achievement in men, and that usually increases with age. And we appreciate skinniness, beauty and youth in women. And that doesn't increase. Gray hair looks good on guys.

It just totally does. It gives them like a distinguished look. If we look at it very superficially, you would find articles, all those guys who have become more attractive and sexier with age. But you don't get a lot of that with women, unfortunately. I know, which is so sad because when I think about like the most influential woman in my life was my grandmother. We called her Momo. But you know, and she was beautiful in so many aspects. And I don't think that we look at our elders that way. They're so beautiful. Like every single wrinkle on their face is part of their life. I do not know who I'm quoting that to will pass. I'm sure everything we as humanity,

we will find out things. And I believe that with every, with every loop, we become a little bit better. We used to love slightly healthier bodies and slightly more natural looks and maybe wisdom and we'll get back to that I believe in that yeah for sure and you know I think that also we're these younger generations are less conditioned right so I do see a huge change in my older kids and my 10 year old. She is so accepting of everybody. I mean, it's like a power within her that she is determined to make sure that people know that, that she is that way. And that's beautiful.

That means we have evolved. I agree completely. I feel if there's generation, I feel a little sorry about it. Actually, you're 20 year olds. I think they had it hard uh because we haven't figured ourselves out yet and now and now we're getting a little better in fact we were watching uh just before this we we are catching up with my children on uh on old classics on tv so we're watching of all movies james bond oh wow the older versions

and oh my god how odd it is to watch it now. But you know what's funny? I don't have to explain any of that to my children, which is beautiful because I remember the discussion we had just 10 years ago. And this generation already gets how bizarre the dynamics between men and women was in those days. I feel like they need support.

They do need awakened elders or mentors above them to help support them because they're in this very unstructured environment right now because there's nothing really, because they broke out of the box, but there's no structure for them. Do you see that? I do not have, unfortunately,

I do not have kids of that age to have a close enough look on them. I'm just, I based the statement that I made that I feel sorry for them on a lot of research that a lot of them don't have a strong executive functioning, which I mentioned. I know a lot of the kids of that age don't date anymore, have issues with commitment and the sexes go down. So these are the only reasons why I mentioned that. But I also believe that, you know, there are two ways to look at the world. And I know that despite our overwhelming desire to be positive, still the assumption, very often the assumption is, and it's unvocalized assumption, that people are by nature lazy and evil.

And my assumption is I always believe in the goodness of humans. And why am I saying that there is the assumption that people are by nature lazy and evil is because a lot of my own industry where that that i have contributed to to building uh personal growth and transformation uh functions on the statement that oh you're you're getting it wrong you've been taught wrong let me tell you and the idea that you can't trust your body you can't trust yourself you have to have someone tell you how to move on, especially if we talk about health and wellness. There are not many teachers who are about having such a good connection with your body that, you know, like animals, maybe I'm slightly romanticizing

the ability of animals to heal themselves. But in that sense, like, just trust that your body knows what it's doing. And I think this kind of trusting relationship with yourself is something which we are not very good at in the 21st century. No. You know, I often sit and wonder why I was reading books that were written by men to tell me what to do while I'm pregnant or right when I have a baby, you know, when we are, we have this natural mother instinct like an animal would, and, you know, it's not taught to trust. I mean, I was never taught, oh, you should ask your body what you should do. I'm huge on discernment. It's one of my biggest things that I feel you know was lacking in my life but yet I was

an empath I definitely everyone I believe is an empath so we're feeling all these things and no one ever tells us what it might be so I thought it was crazy I agree that pregnancy is a huge school of trust for women if we are allowed to do that. Unfortunately, both my pregnancies happened in Asia. And I'm saying unfortunately, because I've been told a lot of things about what might go wrong. It takes a little bit of courage to trust yourself. And I think that's something which we as a humanity

should try to explore next. You think about it, there are so many books on, you know, what you're supposed to do for pregnancy, so many books on what you're supposed to do how to raise your kids. Then there's so many books on how to be a good mom and be a good wife and all the things. And now, you know, there are more books, though, that are telling you to go within instead of seeking all of it outside of you. listened to my prior episodes with him, then you know he has a ton of wisdom to share and is offering Sense of Soul listeners a special discount to take a deep and personalized dive into Kabbalah and the unfolding of your own personal journey. If you're interested, go to MatthewPonak.com backslash Sense of Soul. That's M-A-T-T-H-E-W-P-O-N-A-K.com backslash senseofsoul to learn more and sign up.

Now back to our amazing guest. It is the reader's personal journey. So for that transformation to happen, it's not enough to hear new ideas or maybe not new maybe or ancient ideas from from thousands of years ago what you need for for the information to change your life you have to feel it and to feel it you have to turn it inside using your own words you have to to do the introspection that's why i like to ask questions because if information changed anything by now after all this i do not know how many thousand years we've been writing and passing on information we would we would have been happy by now but information doesn't change anything it's uh it's the information plus experience the

introspection when when it travels from the cognitive level to the level of your heart, that's when your life starts changing. And that's why I ask a lot of questions and I invite my reader to do this introspection, to sit and ask themselves. That self-inquiry. I like you. I deep dive into some pretty heavy stuff. sometimes I'm doing it just out of curiosity however it always has returned back to me and has helped my spiritual growth in some way you know what curiosity is the best fuel for transformation better than anything else yeah some people actually even say you know you shouldn't deep dive like it's too much or you know I mean it's just the way that I am because I always I want to know how it works I want to know why I want to know how

you I absolutely relate because in in personal growth especially in the 21st century the idea that you are in your head is a little bit unfashionable. You're supposed to be in your body, in your heart, in the present moment, anywhere but your head. So I get it. But that's one of my dragons, one of my flaws, which I have learned to accept. One thing I can say, I do not know the answers for people. And it may be very infuriating. I know I've talked to some of my students where they would ask a question and I would say like, you're the person who knows the answer. I know I've talked to some of my students where they would ask a question and I would say like, you're the person who knows the answer. I don't, I can't tell it for you. I know it's infuriating, but people listen because deep inside they know that's the truth.

So I don't believe in absolutes. I don't know what's true for you, but there is the truth inside you and it's your truth. So I can give you my truths, all that you like, all I like, but they won't change anything. It's once you have your own truth, that's when your life starts changing, which is why I encourage people to ask themselves, because there are no absolutes in life and in personal growth, particularly. And if you think of your own journey, because I'm sure you have been on this path for years what worked for you 10 years ago probably is absolutely irrelevant right now or maybe it's right or maybe it's tired or maybe the exact opposite of what you need right now but 10 years from now what you might need maybe something so irrelevant to you right now and not just irrelevant you know sometimes some people need to slow down and other people

need to get their buddies off their off the couch so which advice is correct it doesn't depend on the person who shares the advice it depends on the person who who's either on the couch or running in a hamster's wheel it's up to you to answer the question what you need. I so agree with you. And I feel like when you don't do that, you're just following one way. You're just putting yourself back in the box that you tried to get out of for 40 years. You know, I've been in this industry for 20 years, and I've seen this story repeat over and over again. And I hope I don't insult anyone, but the pattern is there. People rebel. They don't like what society wants and I hope I don't insult anyone but that's it the pattern is there people rebel they don't like what society wants of them they don't like the peer pressure they

say my mom wanted me to be a lawyer I chose to give it all up I don't believe in that kind of success I redefined success I went to Bali I lived the lives of my dreams and then and I'm sorry for using Bali it may be any other place it may be any other circumstances but the point is that they end up in the new set of dogma and peer pressure and I've seen that over and over again and they become the same kind of serfs slaves whatever you like to use whichever word doesn't insult you of new set of dogma and traditions and rituals which you absolutely have to follow because if you don't then you are failure and maybe that's not the failure according to your previous life but it doesn't matter it's a new set of shackles

it is so true I found I mean just a simple example I found that when I began Reiki, you know, I did Reiki at the beginning and I thought it was all the things and it was working. It was so amazing. And I was like, oh, this is it. But that was just putting me right back in a box. And as I evolved, it wasn't so much Reiki anymore. And, you know, I still teach it and I still believe it's a great foundation, but I would never, ever suggest somebody just to be one thing. I'm with you, and especially in the obsoletes, there's absolutely, I mean, it's infinity when it comes to the possibilities. So I never say never. You know, Reiki probably was absolutely necessary for you at that point. And I have experienced Reiki. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. But

I'll tell you something even, not you particularly, but the listener, something maybe sacrilegious, too much meditation may be bad for you. Oh, I've been there too. People who escape everyday life problems into health, fitness, meditation, yoga, whatever, you name it. Yes, you're 100% right. For myself, I could say that I've done that. And actually, it's the same thing as if you're scrolling and I found myself doing this too. Shopping online because I don't want to think, you know, and just like filling my brain. I'm filling all these carts up. I'm never going to buy any of that shit.

Watching all James Bond movies. Oh, mine is totally true crime. I have a true crime addiction. And I just feel like it's like filling space. But who am I to judge then? Actually, I think it's fine. It's fine if you're conscious and aware of what's going on. When it stops being fine is when you think that because this is a good thing. Okay. Leave aside shopping and watching movies, because that's questionable. Although, you know, shopping actually sustains the economy and maybe economy is not such a bad thing after all but that aside a lot of people think that if it's a healthy activity it can't be too much of it the question

is you know it's so much easier to do something tangible and i it comes from a person who has been perfectionist all my life and I have been ambitious and competitive while hating competition I know it's so easy you know we keep like tell me tell me what to do give me the tutorial I know how to put 100% 120% in it yeah and and this is like this brute force is what I know will bring me success. And that's why we get distracted into things which are tangible and understandable, leaving aside things which are so much harder to understand, like your relationship with yourself. How do you judge it? How do you understand?

How do you improve it? It's not tangible. You can't do a little bit more of it to make it work better. So that's why we run away into things which which are so much easier to follow and like you said earlier I mean it's not for everybody I mean the way that I receive energy and what I need in my life at this moment it's completely different than someone else I have a coaching program but it's personalized I can't just make it for everybody because we're all so different it's impossible I've tried so I thought this would be great I't just make it for everybody because we're all so different. It's impossible.

I've tried. So I thought this would be great. I'll just make one and everyone can just follow it. That's like not realistic. We're so unique. And like you said, even myself going through different things in my life, you know, needing things at different points of my life. You know, when people say like spiritual awakening, I can't tell you how many awakenings I've gone through. It sounds really silly. But I mean, from the very beginning until just this past year, it's like I'm always constantly upgrading that awakening to, you know, something more of understanding, some more wisdom, accepting all the flaws. I'm definitely contributing to our issues with money here in America by shopping as often. It's not very good. You see, that's the trap, exactly, what my book is about. It's interesting, we kind of understand the world better,

and we want to be better. And then we start feeling bad about not being perfect yeah but what I'm trying to convey is that we are imperfect that's our nature and that's also in a way a source of growth and transformation because you you can't evolve imagine if you were perfect at this very moment what would you do for the rest of your life I do not know, 50, 60, how many years you had an interview with a guy that probably 150 or maybe 250. But even if we take that current life expectancy, you can't be perfect because if you are, you're in essence, denying yourself the point of the rest of your your life it's such a burden to carry to try to be perfect I get told all the time for my kids you know it doesn't have to be perfect mom

you know no but the thing is is that I'm like also ADHD kind of perfectionist I'm like the most unorganized perfectionist ever. Well, we are contradictory very often inside ourselves. I mean, we are created with contradictions, which is normal. I am introverted and I like to party and I'm a perfectionist, but I also can't stand perfection. It's kind of funny. I am by nature, and please don't judge me, but I'm by nature quite lazy,

but I'm also very restless and I can't just stay in one place. So it's a lot of contradictions, a lot of the opposites. And again, it's because we are very often based in the idea that humans are bad. So we don't trust this contradiction. So we kind of force ourselves into the mold, which we think is right, rather than trusting nature and knowing that if you need a break, then take a break.

But your opposite side, you know, the ADHD or in my my case restlessness will sooner or later lift its head and say like are we done shall we go we just don't trust ourselves right yeah i know so i mean you have to find a balance between the imperfection and the perfection or the adhd and the perfection my daughter wanted me to put this vine on her wall and stuff just yesterday and and I'm trying to get it like perfect and I go back and I try to get it perfect and she's like mom it doesn't have to be perfect like leaves are perfect on their tree are they and I'm like the wisdom of a child smart kids right yeah you know but there's no harm I mean if you if it doesn't prevent you from doing things in life then it's it's fine I also we have a lot of paintings in the house and I always fix them

a little bit because I do not like when things are not aligned oh you mean like if they're crooked on the wall yes oh my god that drives me crazy but but it's okay has it ever stopped me from going on stage or writing a book no I waste my time in many different peculiar and very sophisticated ways so it's okay the thing is that you are not supposed to be perfect and maybe it isn't perfect about me trying to make the pictures hang perfect. Right. And what's really, really sad about me just thinking about that, because my daughter, who I was talking about, she is a perfectionist. And she's fussing at me about not being perfect, because I'm always telling her that. But she came into this world that way, Christina.

I remember one of the very first things I ever saw in her, she would try to like put these two things together. They like would click together. She wasn't even a year old and she got so mad. She would get so mad. And I just saw this, you know, in her personality and she's so hard on herself and we talk about it out loud, but, and she says that I'm not mad at you. I'm frustrated with myself. I'm mad at myself. She always says that it's so sad. I'm like, I've never had expectations for her to be perfect. She came into this world that way. And so it's interesting because I've always wondered that with her. She's definitely an old soul. You wonder like how many of these things you carry on with you, you know, life to life. And that I would think personally that those are the things you really need to work on.

Because if we're evolving to the next life, we have to shed some of these things that we've come into the world with. And I would question the, do we have? You know, it's interesting. I have to give a little disclaimer. I'm not a psychotherapist and I don't specialize in mother-child relationships. So for me, it's a little alien territory. So I wouldn't dare to comment on that particular situation. But I want to share my own experience because as i said i am perfectionist and i used to uh call myself recovering perfectionist i actually heard that phrase about probably 10 years ago and for for about five six maybe seven years i i love that phrase i kept saying i'm recovering perfectionist until until one day i realized that I can't recover from being myself.

And there's a huge difference between bad habits and things which are intrinsic to you. And not everything which is intrinsic to you is perfect. And some things are a little bit of a handicap. And I'm not talking about physical handicap right now. And the question is, what are you going to do with that? you can't shame yourself out of being you you can't train yourself out of being you and if you put all this effort into eradicate eradicating something which is so intrinsically part of you aren't you wasting your energy in the wrong direction so you have a dragon like that and i just called quite a few of my own dragons and perfectionism is the easiest dragon because a lot of people are pretty proud of being perfectionists but the thing is that when you have a dragon you know people say slay the dragons I say don't slay your dragon if you're

smoking yes that's a bad habit try to give it up if you can because that's a really unhealthy habit but there are things about you which make you you and when you're trying to eradicate that part of you not only you denying yourself the right to just be unapologetically you but you're also you're also refocusing your energy on something totally futile and unproductive and you're also missing an opportunity because the dragons are not meant to be slayed they're meant to be tamed. You look your dragon in your eye and you ask yourself a question. Okay, this is me. I accept that. Can I now learn to live with that dragon so that it doesn't prevent me from doing things that I'm

meant to do? Perfection is still part of me. I will forever be perfectionist, but it doesn't stop me from doing things. Moreover, the next step is actually look your dragon in the face and ask, how is this dragon? How can I make this curse into my blessing? Yeah, that's so beautiful. This happened to me. So years ago, you know, like over a decade ago, I figured out that I was very codependent and, you know, I've always been this very yes person, all the things. And I've been compared to my mama, who is the martyr of the family. And because I used to worship that I wanted to be like her and I was, and people would tell me all the time. And then when I found this strength within me, you know,

to have the self-love for the first time, because prior I was so selfless and I battled because I became like, like I felt this strength that I'd never felt before. But then I was like, but that was me, you know, like I am a giving person. Like I love to help and nurture people, but yet I looked at it as a weakness, which is not a weakness. So I had to find this balance and I had to accept that is who you are. You are a giver and that's okay. That's a beautiful thing. You just have new boundaries, you know? And so I had to look it in the face, just like you said, and I had to tame it. I had to tame like you said, and I had to tame it. I had to tame it with boundaries, but I still can be who I am inside.

It's a beautiful thing. I'm so glad you brought that up. Such wisdom. Thank you. Yeah, I'm glad because it's a much more, I don't know, fulfilling way of living. Yes. It's, and to bring it to a slightly lighter note, though, you know, there's this movie that we watched with my kids, X-Men. And I love to bring this analogy because it's so vivid.

There's the character Mystique, who's blue and scaly, and she has red hair. If you've seen the movie, you would know who I talk about. And she's a shapeshifter, so she can take any shape but obviously take some energy for her to do that so half of the movie she walks around like a beautiful girl a beautiful young girl until until her friend says uh that you know uh while you're trying to be someone else you're taking half of your focus away from things that matter and there's this if you if you google it you'll find this episode where he's saying that it's uh from x-men first class uh and uh

that's that's actually i mean in this movie it's just very illustrative the way the way it works how very often by trying to be someone else we are removing an energy energy from things that truly matter and this is the most practical explanation why it's so important to embrace yourself the way you are because first of all it's so much easier to to bridle your your dragon than to then to try to kill it you can create boundaries you can create systems create systems to live with that thing in you and to stop being so miserable about being something which doesn't correspond to your picture of perfection. Is this what your book is about?

This is great. I believe I do talk about a lot of those things in my book, maybe with different analogies because time goes and I may see something inspiring and then bring another example. So I don't use the same words, but the messages are the same. Because it's so beautiful. It's true. It's like, I came into this world that way, just like my daughter did, just like you did. And it turned into a dragon, probably only because it wasn't nurtured and loved as a child.

You see, our obsession with perfectionism is the thing that creates the dark side. And I'm not paraphrasing Yoda right now. The thing is that, you know, when you have a picture of what it means to be the best version of you, when you suspect that you are not corresponding to that picture. Our brain doesn't like when reality is threatening to us. So it starts distorting the reality. So rather than dealing with the problem, we try to shove it away, you know, sweep it under the rug,

put it in the dark corner. So what happens is that darkness kind of piles up, but it doesn't disappear. So obsession with perfectionism, in fact, creates the dragons, which we later have to learn to deal with. And that for me was a constant battle because it was like natural for me to want to help. But I was like, seriously, consciously say no. I will say no. Because society tells you all the things you have to do

you have to you have to do this you have to do this you have to do this you have to do this and we keep doing that in out of best intentions because we think that's what's going to make us better you're so right wow it really was a freedom to not have to do that anymore and just to flow and just be natural in me because if you're having to actually stop and be conscious every single time you freaking think about to answer a question or anything that's it's that's not a natural flow not at all it's a lot of energy going in the wrong places and it requires quite a lot of maturity to start accepting people the way you are. They are, but it starts with myself. One of the main principles in my life is my relationship with the world is a reflection of my relationship with myself.

So, and that's something which I've also learned from personal growth. The more tolerating you are of your quirks and your dragons, the more, the easier it is to become tolerating of other people's quirks and dragons. The more forgiving you are of yourself, the easier it is to forgive other people. That's why I think self-love is such an important skill. We think we might be mistakenly thinking that we live in a self-obsessed world. Actually, it is self-obsessed, but self-obsession is not self-love. It's a distortion of self-love. Selfishness is not excess of self-love.

It's a distortion of self-love it's a distortion of self-love selfishness is not excess of self-love it's distortion of self-love if self if if you're a vessel and love is liquid self-love is the liquid which is in the vessel selfishness self-obsession uh you know when your need for admiration for likes and comments and whatnot for your need for success for for fame it's all lack of self-love because you pour the liquid from outside if your cup is full there's no nothing that you can't pour anything more in we misunderstand self-love because we consider a lot of the distortions of self-love as excess of self-love whereas it's it's the opposite when people act self-obsessed it's because they don't have enough for themselves when people act you know inconsider, it's because they don't have enough for themselves. When people act inconsiderate, it's because they can't be considerate of themselves. So they require that void to be filled from the outside.

That's why I think whatever triggers you in your relationship with children, for me, it's always an invitation or whatever triggers me in my relationship. And I am very easily triggered person. I always have, for me, that's an invitation to sit down and ask myself, so what's going on inside? Why is it triggering me? Yeah. Do you know what the older kids try to do is they have this trigger.

They're all upset. They come home and they're looking for you to put it all on. And now I'm just like, nope, not mine. Sorry. Well, it's a very natural defense mechanism. It's called displacement, I think, if I'm not mistaken right now. We have a lot of interesting ways to deal with the reality which we don't enjoy. Because, well, you know, our brain is built in a way to protect us from harm. And reality which we don't enjoy. Because well, you know, our brain is built in a way to protect

us from harm and reality, which we don't like is harm. And so the brain starts working hard on making it look better. But that's okay. The thing is that do you know the tricks of your brain? One of the things that we like to do is we like to be angry with someone else. But there are other ways to how we deal with that. Passive aggression is a very common way to deal with the reality, which doesn't fit our picture of perfection. And it's probably one of the most widespread defense mechanisms. I do that as well. The word which is becoming a little more popular right now, spiritual bypassing, it's an umbrella term for a lot of defense mechanisms some of my favorites are you know reaction formation where we don't own our own feelings but we kind of see the problem

in other people so there are a lot of ways how we make ourselves feel better and the best thing we can do for ourselves is let people be and just ask myself okay what is hurting me yeah and I think knowing and understanding that each person has their own journey that when a person starts to understand that this is my energy this is my journey this is my soul's evolution and just owning that and then you kind of like you were saying kind of respect the other person's journey and what they're going through we're all on our own but yet we're all together but i believe uh it would be better if if we first took care of our own relationship with ourselves and then looked on the outside and see how we can make this world a better place and that doesn't mean that we shouldn't want to make the world a better place i have become incredibly environmentally conscious now that i've moved back to europe and

i'm so happy with that and that's an attempt to manipulate the current reality, you know, by trying to solve at least some problems. So of course, it doesn't mean that you don't want to change the world or make it better. Yeah, I think, you know, it's really funny, this podcast has always had like these themes of message. And so far, 2023's message has been strongly, very strongly, fix you inside, and then you actually are helping the collective as well. True, true. And I used to say that to fix you before you fix the world,

but now I've replaced the word fix with heal because fixing implies brokenness. And I don't think that people are broken. They're wounded, which is why I prefer the word fix with heal because fixing implies brokenness. And I don't think that people are broken. They're wounded, which is why I prefer the word healing or talking about pain rather than what's wrong with you because it's such a heavy thing to think that you're broken and you need fixing. Healing implies just being human and being human is imperfect, messy, and beautiful. So glad that you came on. Can you tell everybody where they can find your book,

social medias and all that good stuff? So all my social media is under the handle Christina Mund and Christina is written in an Estonian way with a K, a little unusual. But my book is on mindvalley.com slash books slash Flossom and it's plural books and Flossom. That's where you can get my book is on mindvalley.com slash books slash Flossom. And it's plural books and Flossom. That's where you can get my book. At this point, it's still pre-orders. It comes with a 10-day program, which I recorded to accompany the book.

It's actually, it was recorded later. And the book is completely standalone thing. But I know that people don't like waiting for the shipping to happen and everything. So I give the program to make the waiting better. It's a program on self-love. Oh, I love that. Okay, well, perfect. I'm going to totally get online and do that today.

And now it's time to break that shit down. I would like to leave you guys with a quote by Cinderella's mom from the 2005 movie, because I think it's one of the best advice. Have courage and be kind. Good one. That was in the movie Cinderella? Yes. I love your movie references. You know, sometimes we underestimate the depths of fiction. There's a lot of wisdom in the beautiful things that have been created. And actually, why I love learning personal growth from fiction is because it comes with a beautiful life story, maybe fiction, but it's beautiful and it takes you to a different world. And I've learned some of the most profound lessons about seeing beauty in probably desperate places from Dostoevsky,

for example, or the beauty of imperfections. And every single author, believe it or not, they're all predecessors of our contemporary personal growth teachers. But they were doing in a slightly different format. And they actually give you the transformation. Because do you remember in the very beginning, I said, very often knowledge doesn't change anything you have to experience. You may know that happiness is within you all you want. But you know, if your child is sick, that affirmation is not going to make you feel better, you have to feel what it means for it to change your life, which is why fiction is so powerful. Because it creates a story. If you say, I have referred to Lord of the Rings, but if you go on that journey with Frodo or Bilbo,

whichever of the books you take, whatever lesson that journey had, you have experienced it. You have in a way lived it. So fiction comes with deep ideas, coupled with experience, which we very often miss in just regular trainings. I love that. It's so true. I know a lot of you will be now very tempted to say to share, but I have to quote Dumbledore.

Just because it's in your head doesn't mean it's not real. Oh, that's a good one. Wow. Yes, absolutely absolutely i love it well thank you so much christina you are such a beautiful person i'm so glad that you blessed us with your wisdom today and i look forward to reading your book yeah thank you so much for having me it was a very enjoyable conversation sorry it was nice to meet you it was nice to get to know you. Yes, thank you. Okay, bye now. Bye. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast.

And thanks to our special guests for joining me. If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com, where you can work with me one-on-one or help support Sense of Soul podcast by donating to my coffee fund. Thanks for listening.