Sense of Soul - Aliens, Angels, UFO’’s, the Vatican and D.W Pasulka

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast we have Dr. Diana Walsh Pasulka  she is a Professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. Her scholarship primarily centers on Catholic history, with a special emphasis on the intersection of new religious movements. Her published work, on topics as varied as the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory to UFOs, to human potentials, has received international acclaim. She is the author of one of my favorite books, American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, and Technology (Oxford University Press) a breakout success that brought attention to the U.S. governments focus and study of UFOs and UAP.  I invited her to join me today to tell us about her newest book called Encounters: Encounters: Experiences With Nonhuman Intelligences She has an impressive portfolio as a co-editor, focusing on the nuanced relationship between digital technology and religious practices and beliefs. Dr. Pasulka spearheads the translation project, in cooperation with the Vatican Apostolic Archive (formerly The Secret Archive) of the canonization records of Saint Joseph of Copertino. Beyond academia, she offers her knowledge as a consultant to film and television including producing consultant for Amblin's Encounters Docuseries #1 on Netflix. Visit her website: https://dwpasulka.com Learn more about Sense of Soul at www.senseofsoulpodcast.com

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world. Sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of Soul Patreon member, where you will get ad-free episodes,

monthly circles, and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today on Sense of Soul, I have a very special guest, Dr. Diana Walsh-Plasilka. She is a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, Wimlington. Her scholarship primarily centers on Catholic history with a special emphasis on the intersection of new religious movements. Her published work varies from the Catholic doctrine of purgatory to UFOs to human potentials, has received international acclaim.

She is the author of one of my favorite books, American Cosmic, UFOs, Religion, and Technology. This was a breakout success that brought attention to the U.S. government's focus and study of UFOs and UAP. Her research spearheaded the new emphasis in academia on UFOs. And I invited her today to join consultant to film and television, including the producing consultant for Amblin's Encounters docuseries on Netflix. I've been looking forward to this interview probably since the beginning of podcasting. So please welcome Diana, also known as as DW Plasoka. Hi, Shana. Hi, how are you? Well, nice to meet you. You too. I loved your recent book. Encounters was awesome. Thank you. I appreciate that. Lots of synchronicity, which is exactly how your journey started, didn't it? Yes, it started synchronistically. Yeah. I first discovered American Cosmic when I first read that book.

Just the very beginning, you start talking about synchronicity. Yeah. Yeah. I had to talk about it because it was happening all the time. And I was like, I can't avoid talking about this. So I did my best. And then I revisited that in encounters because I changed my mind from American Cosmic to encounters about synchronicity. Yeah, I found so many synchronicities in encounters, though I could have I was like, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh. And just to give you a little background, I grew up Catholic, and I had this moment in my late 30s, I asked myself this question. So it kind of started with this question for me, how much of what I believe in have I been told to believe? And of that, how much have I actually

experienced for myself? And that got me. Brilliant. I started to live by my experiences and everything changed for me. So my study over the past few years has been in the Gnostic Gospels. I have synchronicity around every corner and many different experiences, like the different people that you put in your book, your recent book. And I was thinking to myself, it's just beautiful that you put that out there because people do feel like, am I the only one? Is my experiences unique or are there other people experiencing the same? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really amazing. In fact, when you just said that about how once you started to live by your experiences, everything changed. And your question was,

how much do I actually believe versus how much was I told to believe? I think that's the crux of it. Like that right there. It started breaking down those walls of the conditions, the box that I was living in and everything changed from there. So like a decade later now, I get to speak to amazing people like you. And I've had a lot of people on my podcast throughout my journey that aligned with what I was going through. And I've always wanted to have you on. I don't know why I didn't reach out prior because I tell everybody about American Cosmic as someone who is deeply rooted Catholic. I'm from Louisiana, which you also talk about All Saints Day in your new book. It's part of my genetic makeup.

Yes. Yeah. That in American cosmic, I think, I didn't try to make it that way, by the way. It literally just emerged on its own. And I basically just documented it as I was going. And all of those beings, entities, whatever they are, came up through the people I was talking with, you know, they just kind of arose on their own. It was just so amazing. And honestly, I can't really understand it. So because I can't really understand it, I'm allowing it to happen. And I'm recording it as it goes. And it sure is helping people. I mean, I can see that people say, yes, this is exactly how it happened for me. I feel that, you know, and I, I allowed myself to do that, just like you allowed yourself to take that journey, instead of being held back by

people who tell us we shouldn't be doing this. And that happens all the time, by the way. Well, I felt in American Cosmic, I felt like I was on the journey with you. It was written very well. And I did. I felt like I was in an adventure with Tyler. So why don't we give just the listeners a little background? Because how did you end up in the Vatican studying purgatory? When did you write that book? What year was it? It was published in 2019, but the journey of beginning the research happened in 2012. So it was between 2012 and 2018 that I did all the research and information and wrote it on and off for two years. And I even thought I

finished it. But then I took Tyler to the Vatican with me and recognize, wait a minute, this is the last chapter of the book. And I had to tell my editor and she was okay with it. So that's kind of how it went. I actually heard you say something that in your new book, you said something like that, how I, well, this is how I received it. Cause I'm writing a book as well right now on my journey of the Gnostic gospels and it just never ends. I'm like, either this is going to be the biggest book in the world, or I'm just going to have to say I'm done. And then maybe something will follow because you're always receiving. It's never going to end. That's right.

It's a volume one, volume two. There you go. I think that's how it has to go. Okay. All right. Yeah, I've actually felt really good. I think I needed to hear that. But, you know, you, I mean, the Vatican, first of all, in the secret archives, or were you in the secret archives?

Yes, I was in the secret archives. Yeah. It's secret archives yes i was in the secret archives yeah it's hard to get into those they're they've renamed them by the way i don't know if they renamed them because of the american cosmic or what sometimes i wonder i'm like yeah i think they were just you know they said look this whole english version of it's the apostolic archive but it's called this secreto like secret archive but it's called the secreto, like secret archive, but it's actually meaning just the private archive of the Pope. That's just really what it's supposed to be about. And, but it's become like the secret archive. And I think that they don't want to associate with, trying to hide stuff, but it actually is very difficult to get into. And there are documents

there that not everyone can see. And I couldn't see some as well that I knew were there, by the way. So just to tell your listeners how it happened that I studied UFOs after basically being a historian of Catholic history for my whole life. And I had this job and have it. I'm a professor and I teach religious studies and we don't advocate for religions. We just teach it to students because a lot of students need to know they're either business majors who are going maybe to India. They need to know about the various religions there or China and also just people who are religious. You know, I get a lot of people who are Christians, they come into my class and they've actually never read the Bible, which is kind of funny.

And so we, we crack it open and I say, what's in there? And it really shocks them. So I actually enjoy my job because I feel like I'm doing something that people really need. They need to know about the religions they practice, my goodness. But I've been really pretty successful as a professor, doing the normal things that professors do, which is to publish about what their research is. And so I published a lot about purgatory, afterlife journeys of Catholics throughout time, and things like that. So it never occurred to me to talk about UFOs, frankly, I never thought about UFOs until 2012. And the way that happened was I do a lot of research in archives. And archives are basically libraries of really old manuscripts and things that they would disintegrate if they were kept

in a normal library. So archives are usually climate controlled and doing historical work. A lot of historians know how to do archival research. And so I was doing archival research on purgatory, which is a Catholic doctrine. And this is a doctrine where, you know, if a person dies, but they're not, their soul isn't good enough to go to heaven, where do they go? Well, Catholics, I have this idea. It's a doctrine called purgatory. So what I did was I was looking at that doctrine throughout time because younger Catholics

don't know about it. Even like older Catholics don't know about it. Even like older Catholics don't know about it. It went off the map after Vatican II in the 1960s. And I was trying to trace reasons for that. Like why, you know, while I was doing that, I came across lots of aerial phenomena in the Catholic historical record. So a lot of people saw disks, you know,

in the sky coming down, engaging with people, and they had different interpretations for it. But the patterns were so similar. And so I kept notes, even though it wasn't part of my research, I thought this is really interesting. And it kept happening, like, you know, century after century after century. I was like, okay, you know, here in France, it happened, you know, here in Italy in the 13th century, it happened, you know, here.

And I just kept those notes. And at the end, when I published my book on purgatory, I was going to actually just go on to talk about this Catholic bishop here in the South, John England. He's from Ireland. Super interesting guy. And I was going to work on his book. But I showed a friend my research and the notes about the aerial phenomenon. He took a look at it and he said, this looks like Steven Spielberg's films. And, you know, I was like, I thought he was crazy.

But then I attended. There was a coincidence that there was a UFO conference near me during that time. And I heard people talking and I was like, oh, my goodness. You know, what they're talking about is exactly what I studied. And it's still happening. So I shifted my perspective to modern day reports of UFOs. Honestly, I had no idea what I was getting into. And that's what I love.

That's what I love. I didn't know. So I get into it and I think it's going to be easy. You know, I think, oh, it's going to be this easy treatment of historical, you know, just a change of framework, like religious framework. And now we have this technological framework. How easy is that? You know, no, that's when I started to meet people in our government who are studying

UFOs. That's when I started to meet people from the three letter agencies, you know, FBI, CIA, they were really interested in what I was doing. And I, and I was very uncomfortable, like, wow, what's going on here. This is before everything that's come out. So, you know, this is in 2013, 2014. And I was outside of my research territory. And I felt really cautious, you know, and I didn't know that our government had these programs that had been going on. And I came upon them. I met someone in the program, super charismatic guy who was a genius and liked to keep to himself. And I couldn't put this together. This person is like a rocket engineer, but also he has these biomedical engineering companies

and he kind of flies around all over the place. And so that was a really strange time period, but I acclimated to it and I used everything that I had within me as a scholar to kind of use what I had to, to figure it out. And that's, that's how it came about. That's amazing. Which he was anonymous or he was anonymous in your book. Yeah. So, okay. let me talk about that. So as a professor of religion or just basically any scholar that's in an academic institution, we have policies, we have ethical policies that we have to follow. And if we don't follow those, we can't be practicing researchers.

And one of those is that if we're doing research on people, we have to protect them because in the past people weren't protected and terrible things happened to them. So basically I went through what's called an IRB, which is a internal review board. Everyone who does research in a university on human subjects has to go through that. So these people requested that I use pseudonyms. And so I use pseudonyms for them until they decide that they want to be known. So one of the people I used a pseudonym for was this scholar at Stanford. And I use James, that's the pseudonym he requested. But he has since come out as himself, who is Gary Nolan. And then Tyler, I, you know, if he chooses to come out, that's good, but I won't

out his identity until he does. After the Brad Pitt character. I had to name him that because, and it was okay with him because first I didn't know, but he actually loves that movie. Yeah. And I didn't know that at the time and um but i thought you know he's in this situation where he's a character who's invisible and he has to remain that way and he's compartmentalized like his job is that his boss doesn't even know what he does so he's bound by these fight club type rules of don't talk about it so it seems really natural to me to call him Tyler D because Tyler Durden, because he fit that. So I suggested that to him. Was he cute like Brad Pitt too? No comment. But when I told him that Tyler D, he told me that movie and book, which by the way,

both are so amazing. The character of Brad Pitt, he wears this that movie and book, which by the way, both are so amazing. The character of Brad Pitt, he wears this purple robe and he also makes that soap. And Tyler D actually had a purple robe and had the soap. What? So he really, yeah, he really resonated with the character. Another synchronicity. Yeah, it was so strange. So then I knew that this was very accurate.

Like my, you know, I surmised his identity pretty well so I haven't read that book in a while but wasn't there a point where they actually asked you to be blindfolded as they brought you to a site yeah so that's a lot of testing. Well, it took me a while to say yes to that. So Tyler is now that I have the language to talk about it. He does UFO research, crash retrieval research as a hobby, but he's affiliated with the space program. So he had access to some of these crash retrieval places. And at the time, I didn't have this language, nor did I have the knowledge or framework to know that this was happening. But he said to me, I don't think you actually believe in UFOs. I think that you think that they're all like imagined and imaginary. And he was right.

And so he said, I want to take you to a place to show you kind of the physicality of the UFO. And I said, sure. You know, he said, but we have to blindfold you and it's a secret place. And I said, wait a minute. Yeah, right. I have to go with a friend of mine. You know, a friend's coming with me. At first he said, no, no, never mind.

But then I told him that Gary Nolan wanted to go. And Gary Nolan has the technology to actually look at the stuff and analyze it and so he said okay yes so Gary and I went to New Mexico did Gary also have to be blindfolded oh yeah yeah both of us did so we put the blindfolds on and we went through you know we were blindfolded It took about 45 minutes or so in this kind of bumpy car ride. And then we got out. I remember just looking around thinking, oh, I think I've been here before. Or I feel like I've seen this.

And Tyler said, you know, do you feel like you've been here before? And I said, well, yeah, you know, but I know I haven't. And he said, oh, they had an insider on the X-Files. And this is that scene from the X-Files. And then I thought, that's really crazy. Like literally, I thought Tyler is crazy. But in my mind, I thought, of course, you know, this is how it happens in media. Media makes it real for many, for millions of people.

So I thought, of course, that's why I recognize this because I watched that episode of the X-Files and that was in my memory. And I was doing a lot of cognitive science research on how we form our memories. And a lot of them come from media and media is real or not real, you know, or a combination. And so I was thinking, okay, well, this now makes sense to me that of course, I'm going to remember something that was from the X-Files. But like the actual site, they have access to that site. It wasn't the actual site. It was a recreation. What he was suggesting was somebody had been taken to the actual site. Yeah. And this is it. Yeah. Yeah. And that could very well be,

I don't know. That's so crazy. And then another part of the book I found was amazing is that you then bring Tyler with you to the Vatican. And he likes got the same clearance that you do. And you're like, who are you? It was a really strange moment because I had been asked to go to the Vatican. It was very unrelated to UFO research, completely unrelated. And so I'd already known I was going to go. And I mentioned this to him and he didn't really say too much other than I could see that his eyes kind of lit up. And I, I thought, you know, if I'm going to the Vatican and I'm looking at, I was supposed to be looking at the levitation records of Joseph of Copertino, who's the levitating saint and another, a

nun, Sister Maria of Agreda. They were both born in the same century, both born around 1602, 1603. And each of them have levitation and bilocation. So I was asked to go to the Vatican to look at this stuff by a person who he's a wealthy person and his aunt was a nun who he'd seen levitate. And so he was, he's a lifelong Catholic and really was like, I believe in this and I would like you to go and get as much information as you can. And of course I said, yes, of course I'll do that. So, you know, once I went to New Mexico, I thought this might

be actually really interesting to take Tyler with me because he's an expert at propulsion and levitation and, you know, levitating like the satellites into space and things like that. I thought, I wonder if he would be able to analyze some of the material that I'll be looking at from just a different perspective, but I didn't think he would be able to get in. And I told him that I said, you know, you need a PhD in Catholic history or something like that. You know, in order to get in, you can't actually just go up. And he's like, okay, sure. Uh, I don't have that. He goes, but maybe I could get some letters from people that I know at university. So he got all these letters and I still thought, I just don't think he's going to get in, you know?

And I was really honest with him, but he said, well, let's go anyway. And I was like, all right. So he was having trouble. I told him not to tell them who he was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really didn't want that. And we went on different flights and he got there first and he was having a hard time getting in. He was texting me, you know, as he was trying to get in and I was thinking, oh, you know, this is terrible. So about, it was about an hour and a half or so that he was really trying to do this. And he was getting frustrated and he kept asking me, can I just show who I am? Finally, I just said, yes, just let's see if it works. And I didn't think it would. So he took out his credentials of which he had many, by the way, and he showed one of them and then he dropped some. So he said that he, he bent down to pick it up. And when he came back up, he saw his face on the screen.

And after that he was in like easy, boom. Right. And yeah. And that's when I started to think this is really going to be a weird trip. You know, you know what I was surprised about is that there's a satellite on top of the Vatican somewhere. Is that right? Oh, yeah, yeah. It's called it's an observatory. And it's been around from, I think 1800s. And I could be wrong. It's been around for a long time. They were one of the first to create an observatory to look into space. And so it's on top of the hill outside of the Vatican about an hour and a half. The place that it's on is called Castle Gandolfo. And it's a papal residence and there are papal gardens there.

It's really incredibly beautiful. But it's right next to a lake that was created from this meteor. It's just so beautiful with deep blue water. And it's really high up so that they have this great view of space, basically. And the monks that live there are astrophysicists and astronomers and yeah so they have their own archive so not only did I go to the secret archive at the Vatican but I also went to their archive and I got to stay there because I actually know the director brother Guy Consolmagno and he invited me to go there

years earlier while I was there, I took him up on the offer and Tyler and I stayed at a scholar's residence there. And we were able to look through their archives and see things there that were really interesting and space-related. Really, really interesting. Because I just would have never thought, of course, I had a very small, small Catholic brain prior to all of this. And one of the first things though, Diana, was when I decided to read the Bible with my new eyes, right? Yes. When I just shut out everything I had been told and girl, I did not get past that first few

chapters in Genesis. I was like, what? And then I read the book of Enoch and I'm like, what is happening? I'm like, are angels aliens? I mean, this is literally what I was thinking. And as I would tell people this, and this is like a decade ago. And when I would tell people this, they were like, you're crazy. And I'm like, well, really, if you just read it, let me just read this to you. Yeah. And they're still, you know, just they can't hear me. And everyone thought I was super silly. You poor thing.

I feel so bad. At the beginning, for sure. It was like I was on my own. And then, you know, I would have one person say, Oh, well, you should watch. I watched something on ancient aliens that maybe they suggested what you're saying. And I'm like, because it says it like right here in the Bible. I mean, you could read this. And of course, you know, reading some of the work of Eric, then Daniken. And I've had on my podcast through the years also, like I remember, actually,

I had Paul Wallace on a few times. He was originally a art deacon and now he studies that. But I told him about your book, this is years ago, probably in 2020. And it was like, oh my gosh, here is a person of religious study, or actually he was an art deacon, for Christ's sake, who actually is exploring that maybe these early texts are describing these off-planet beings. And I was like, yay, somebody else in the world. So maybe there's just a few of us. But it seems like now, today, this is something that people are more open to believing, or at least playing with the idea. I used to say, look at the definition of what an alien is.

Look at what a definition of what an angel is, and go sit with that. Yeah. No, it's true. It's absolutely true. So in the beginning, I went to a friend of mine, and I said, I think I might be doing this book. And I said, and it's, you know, it's kind of bridging these two concepts. And she's just thought I was crazy. She said, how are you going to do that, Diane? And nobody's going to understand you because here is an alien and this is what an alien

looks like. And here is an angel. And this is what an angel looks like. And I thought, okay, this is a person who's giving me a reality check is basically saying you're, you have a hard job, but you know, because what does an alien actually look like? It doesn't look like what the media tells us. And what does an angel look like? It sure doesn't look like what Catholic history has told us. Read the scripture of what an angel looks like. They're not Campbell's soup kids. And you know what's funny? I always used to say that to me, in my mind, Archangel Michael

looked like Brad Pitt. That was what we're told, right? That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Brad Pitt. But he's always depicted with a sword. There are these characteristics about him that say he is a leader, you know, he's a protector, right? He's always over and dominating over, you know, evil or demonic energy or whatever he's on. And you talk about that in your book, your new book with an experiencer. And I just was like, holy cow, this is insane. Do you mind sharing that story? I don't mind at all. So and remember that for every experiencer in that book, there were probably 50 others that had similar if not, I mean, almost the same experiences. And so I just chose the ones who I thought would help people.

Because obviously, if they're having these experiences, so many people are. And I thought, okay, this is gonna I think a lot of people are going to understand this, that relate to it. Yeah. And it'll clear up a lot of misconceptions because a lot of people, when they experience UFO events will also have these other kinds of things happen to them, but sometimes they think they're not related. So this is gray man. I have to use a pseudonym. The only pseudonym in the book, he was an experiencer from when he was young, like in his 20s. He's from Australia. And there was a very well-known UFO flap that happened in New South Wales in Australia. And he was part of that. It happened while he was driving.

And then after that, a bunch of things that he didn't even think were related to that happened to him. But after meeting me, he was like, okay, now I understand that, you know, it's, it kind of opened up something. He would experience not just typical alien encounters with greys, right? That seemed really scary to him. And he felt that they weren't good. And he would experience this entity, which he didn't, by the way, he didn't grow up with the kind of same kind of thing that you and I grew up with, which was Catholic iconography. Like, you know, you and I would

know who St. Michael was, but he did not know this. He did not know this. And I thought he did actually. So he explained that he had this, he didn't call it a dream. He didn't know what it was. He said, you know, I had an experience of this entity. I woke up and it was right next to me and it was shining and it was this male figure and it had a presence. It was really amazing. He said, and I felt like it had a lot of love. And he said that it wanted me to, to learn something from it. So he went with it. And that's when he saw it fighting these dark, shadowy things. And he said that he felt like it was training him how to fight these things. So he was fighting it, fighting these things.

And then afterwards, he said he wanted to hug it. And he said, you know, can I hug you? And it said, no, I have a sword. And then he saw that it did have a sword. And he was, you know, and he described it in exactly like what St. Michael looks like to us, right? So very shiny being that's imposing, but loving, right? And I thought, oh, I said, it sounds like you had a vision of St. Michael, the archangel. And he didn't say anything back to me. And

so, you know, a couple of weeks went by and he was supposed to come to the United States. And so he went through his, you know, looking for his passport and he found this prayer card. He did not know it was a prayer card, but he found it. And it had a picture of this, of Saint Michael. It was a Saint Michael prayer card with this sword. And it was an old one. That's right. It was given to him by a friend of his who had a very bad experience and gave it to him and strangely said, this is new, like something like 20 years earlier or something like that. And so, you know, he found it and it really freaked him out. So once he saw that, he decided to do some internet research and he looked up, saw all these videos on St. Michael.

And then he called me. Now this is a person who is extremely reserved, extremely reserved. And the job that he has is a reserve person would have to have that job. He was almost like upset. I could just hear it in his voice that he said, I just found out about this thing called St. Michael. And I was like, wait a minute. I thought you knew about that. And so I recognize that he actually did not know about this, but he had this vision of it as it perfectly is, right? So that made me then have to reconsider like, what are we talking about? These things, are they objective and are they like union archetypes or what are they? Collective archetypes. Yeah. Yeah. So I started, you know, I had to, you know, so I put it out there. I still don't know,

but I believe in their reality and they show up a lot. So St. Michael shows up a lot. I know. I mean, I have so many amazing experiences like about Archangel Michael. I mean, ridiculous synchronicity. Like one time I was making this deck, this whole deck that I made was synchronicity around it. But I was actually working on the digital art of Archangel Michael of how I see him. I'm listening to a true crime podcast. And in the middle of the podcast, the host just starts saying the Archangel Michael prayer. I'm like, wait a sec. We're talking about murders here. All of a sudden, he reads the whole thing and he reads it in this voice. I have goosebumps saying this,

Archangel Michael. And I'm looking down at what I'm making. I'm like, holy crap. Like what? But it's always, you know, amazing. You hear so many stories about Archangel Michael from all different cultures as well. I know from all different cultures. That's what's so interesting. Even secular people. And so Dr. E.O.

Whiteley, who does very straight up research and stuff. And I thought, OK, now I'm going to drop everyone off the cliff with the gray man story and St. Michael, the archangel story, because people really need to know that when they have UFO experiences, other things will be happening too. And they need to understand that this is a pattern. And my editor, by the way, he was, he was really confused. He was like, this is really amazing, but Diana, this isn't a UFO. And I said, no, it's not. And that's the thing. It's like, we have to rock how we've been trained to think of UFOs. We really have to drop that. I totally agree. And I, that's why I love your book. Cause it almost normalizes it. Well,

it normalized it in my life. And I know my life may not be the norm, but it might be the new norm. There are times where that my dreams have also been a huge part of my journey. And there's this vibe that when I start having those dreams, there's a vibe in my real life, in the reality, in the 3D as well. They're kind of matching a little bit. And I have had dreams where I was on another planet and the water was weird. It wouldn't come to the shore.

And there was two moons and there's a little person next to me. And around that same time, I'll be outside and just be looking up and just having this vibe, that same vibe. I'm not, it's hard to explain, but you call it, I think it was with Jose where they have this knowing. Yeah. These things are also part of this is what you found. Yeah. Yes. So Jose kind of was born this way. A lot of people felt that they were, you know, had some kind of experience that then these things happened, but he, as that's why I described his life as he was young, you know, in Artesia and he's such an interesting guy. You know, he had this life that it was so challenging.

Growing up in a drive-by city, his dad being a part of a cartel, his family had to sleep on a mattress underneath windows so that they wouldn't be hit by bullets in the night. This is how he grew up. But they also were very, very Christian. So he grew up with this iconography. And they also had UFO experiences and lived in Roswell. So all of this impacted him.

And his mother passed away. And then he went into the military and became a Marine when he was 18. And had terrible, amazing experiences. Like he would go out, almost wanted to die. And he would not get shot. He would not. and he was on the front and he did so many tours and then right as he came out he came to my department in philosophy and religion and i saw him he was like an amazing student and just learned philosophy experientially

he already knew it almost he was basically there just to learn the language because he already knew. And you can tell he was in everyone's classes and all the professors had the same reaction to him. Like, okay, I can give this kid, this kid's going to know, and I'm just going to give him everything I have, all my knowledge. And he is a huge advocate for young people and hope. And I actually just saw him. He was at this conference that I was at in Stanford. And there were a lot of these people that were just doom and gloom about climate change and this and that. And they were like, you know, it's so terrible. This is going to happen. And he knows all that. They were all like very privileged people, you know, all older.

And they were having this conversation with him where they thought that they were telling him what was up. And I was thinking, nah, you need to listen to this guy. And he was basically just going, nope, nope, nope, nope. There's hope. We are it. We are it. And so when you say the new normal, bringing it back to your experiences, it's not just that this is the new normal. This has to be the new normal. Gone are the days. Yeah. Don't get me started when it comes to women, because that's really what my book is about, you know, is being so shocked, you know, reading the Gnostic Gospels. And I don't know if you know of Elizabeth Schrader.

I really want to have her on too. Actually, I have been in contact with her, but oh my gosh. I mean, her discoveries and for a woman to discover it and put it out there is so powerful. It is. That's one of the wonderful things about knowing actually the tradition and learning about it and how it had been changed know, lots of traditions eradicated and, but you could go back and see them in the Bible. Like there's references to Junia being an apostle and, you know, what she does and stuff. And, you know, all of that was, was corrupted and changed the place of women, you know, and how it was this radical revolutionary and you call it a vibe. I like that word. And because it is, it's like a vibration that you can actually, not just an idea, it's an idea you can feel. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Oh my gosh. I love that with Jose,

his experiences, he would always have that knowing it seems like, like, and he was always looking up. It seems as well. People tell me that all the time too. So people will always say, oh my gosh, and you always see everything. And usually it's birds, right? Cause you know, I'm always looking up. So I'm either seeing birds or I'm seeing things I don't know. And I live super close to the space for, so God knows what, you know, they're putting up there that I'm seeing all the time too. But not everybody does see what I see because I'm always looking up. So I obviously will have more experiences because I'm always looking. Yeah. And so since he was a little kid, he was always having experiences.

And he just probably got accustomed to looking up. Yes. And that's interesting that you say that because one of the things that Dr. E. Whiteley, she's a space psychologist and she helps pilots and astronauts. She helps train them for extreme spaces. She told me that almost everybody in the Western culture in the United States and in England where she lives, she says, we only have a horizontal view. We actually don't look up. Nor do we, we don't have a 360 view. She said, pilots and astronauts have to have this view of 360 degrees. And she said that, you know, in other cultures, people have different kinds of views. So it sounds like you've cultivated this non-horizontal view. But I think that's, this is such a great point. I think people should start looking around. Yeah. But yeah, it is funny because I've been

told that. So my kids tell me that my best friend, you know, people who are close to me, they're always like, God, you always see everything, but you're always looking up. But I am. It's the first thing I do when I walk outside and it's not that I'm even always looking for something, but it's just something I do. Yeah, I think that's a good thing. It's a situational awareness. Right. And yeah, but you know, you would almost think that, you know, being in war, because I have

known people who have been in served many tours in Afghanistan and who they are always like that. But it's different with Jose. Yeah. He has the knowledge in that chapter. I introduced that it's a way of being that can be taught and transmitted. I look at my younger kids who, you know, they don't doubt their experiences quite yet. Yes. I am someone who encourages them to lean into that, you know, whatever they're experiencing. And there's been a lot of experiences that my younger daughter has where she tells me about it. And then it's like the next part of my journey, like coincidentally or synchronistically, because over and over this happens. Sometimes I feel like it is usually

with these kind of collective archetypes, but she knows nothing about them. Like one of the first ones was with this goddess Bridget. I think she was like seven. She was like, I had this dream about this angel and she had long red hair with this green dress and burgundy trim. And after she told me this, I went immediately to my room and I wrote down the details. And then I had so many people on my podcast talking about the goddess Bridget. I had this guy who was releasing his album, his first song. He sings this chanting of the Gaelic hymn of Bridget, But she always does that. She's done this so many times. And it does seem like it's always with some sort of archetype. That's fascinating. Wow. I know.

So this young guy that I know, is basically has said to me something very similar and has asked me and I don't know, but I feel like it might be true. He said, we're having these connections with these beings and these beings are interfacing with us. The encounter you have with your daughter who somehow feels it, dreams, it gets the knowledge and then tells you. And then all of a sudden it gives the space for this type of being to enter our lives. And what do they do? Do they teach us or guide us? Or are they just letting us know that they're there? Well, in my case, it's the whole first chapter of my book because what it led me to was the Gnostic Gospels and Pista Sophia. So one of the

women that came on to talk about her book during that time, It was really crazy. Her name is Bridget Finklair. And she, at the beginning of the episode says, and she's got this beautiful English accent. She goes, I teach a circle on the keys of Enoch and Pistis Sophia, but her accent, I heard Pistis of fear. And so when I'm buying the keys of Enoch, I see underneath, there's a book called Pistis Sophia. And then I heard her voice and I'm like, oh, it was Pistis Sophia. I was like, well, I don't know anything about this. I'll just buy this one too. And that's been my journey for three years. So it all started with Bridget, but then which Bridget is a, I would say, kind of like an embodiment of Sophia, that feminine energy. Yeah.

And that wisdom. Yeah. Same skills and, you know, things that, that divine feminine energy. Crazy. I could have never, ever went down this road on my own. That's what I'm saying. There was something that was leading me. That's what I'm saying. There was something that was leading me. That's right. Almost as if it was an organized, like people are organized and then it's somehow

the knowledge comes through through these, this organization. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's, it's really beautiful and you have to learn how to listen to it. You have to be looking up all directions. Tell me more about the book that you're writing. Oh, yeah. So it is literally all my synchronicities. Like you wouldn't believe the stuff that happened. Actually, the Archangel Michael story is in the book because during that time.

So I was working on this oneness card, an oracle deck. So I made this world and I put all of these hands around it, kind of something typical you would think of. And the card was really dark. So I decided to put like a dove on it to brighten it up. And that day I got the keys of Enoch in the mail. I don't know if you know what that book looks like on the front, but I didn't look at the front, but I opened in the mail. I don't know if you know what that book looks like on the front, but I didn't look at the front, but I opened up the book and I opened this page and it has a dove on top of a map. And it says return of the dove at the top. And I'm like, holy cow, I kind of made that today. So I sent my friends a picture. I was like, look at this.

It's so crazy. It's like, you know what I made. They're like, yeah, but look at the front of the book. And the front of the book has all these hands going towards a dove. I'm like, oh, my God. And it just was like this, like the electricity I was feeling in my body to my fingertips as I was holding this book and all this was going on. But it didn't stop there with that dove situation because as I got deeper into discovering and reading Pista Sophia, and I shut out the world because I wanted my own perspective on what I was reading. I did not want to be taught what I was reading.

Even when I had on the Hurtogs and other Gnostic scholars, they were only validating what I was reading. I did not want to be taught what I was reading. Even when I had on the Her Talks and other Gnostic scholars, they were only validating what I had already really felt that was true for myself. That's right. But what was crazy is that you do go down secret society. You do have to go down that road because they were the keepers of some of this wisdom. But you talk about the Rosicrucians in your book. And I went down these roads, you know, even the Knights of Templar, you know, I learned when they had said that they were worshiping Baphomet, quote unquote, in the Askew code, you backwards, it means Sophia. And so here I am studying Sophia and, you know, and then of course, Baphomet turns into the devil card and these perceptions of these archetypes, right.

And, you know, could it have been just, you know, hiding the divine feminine the whole time was, you know, so I'm searching all of this. Well, the dove had become a very significant part of my journey. I had had all this synchronicity with the doves around my house and the sun and the moon and all this stuff. And I write about all of it. But I'm studying the Jesuits because I just have a knowing. So I put in Jesuits in my phone and I get a warning. I'm like, I have already studied Knights of Templar, Rosicrucians, Freemasons, like heavily. All of a sudden, I get a warning. I'm like, I have already studied Knights of Templar, Rosicrucians, Freemasons,

like heavily. All of a sudden I get a warning, suspicious activity, Jesuits plus Freemason. It says it on my phone. I took a snapshot. Not an hour later. I'm not even joking. I have a video. It's at night. I opened my door and a dove drops dead on my porch and dies right in front of me and my son. And the only reason why I opened the door that night is he was letting his friend out and I was holding the dog back. Yeah. And I have a video. Literally died right there at night. A morning dove.

You know, I'm scared. I'm kind of nervous. I don't know if I want to go back in. Yes, of course. This research. Two weeks later, I'm outside. Actually, I'm making another card that day because it's Saturdays always that I'm making the card. And I made this beautiful depiction of Jesus. I take a break. My daughter's playing volleyball in the front yard. And there's this little bird trying to come to my porch. And I'm sitting in my rocking chair.

So I decided to be still. And I'd seen the lone dove because, you know, they're mates. And I had sat with that lone dove for two weeks feeling sorry for her, knowing that mate had died on my porch. Finally, a little bird comes to my porch and I have a harvest wreath on my door. There was two baby doves born on my porch. And then all I thought in my mind was return of the dove. I have goosebumps telling you this return of the dove, like go back, do not give up.

And I then searched for return of the dove because I wanted to understand what J.J. Hurtok was really meaning by that. I mean, is it the return of the divine feminine, which means Holy Spirit, you know, which is Father, Son, Sophia, it should be. But you know, what happened is, is I came to a book by Margaret Storm. It's called Return of the Dove. And it's about Nikola Tesla. I ordered the book, but it's a copy of a book because someone took that book off the shelves. They bought every copy and Margaret Storm is missing. And the only place you will find her are in documents of the CIA Tesla files.

And that book tells about his love for the dove. He loved that dove like he loved a woman. But it's really about root races, aliens, him being from Venus, him going on the mothership, him leaving all of his stuff with his disciples is what she called him, like Otis T. Carr. And there's another one. And so I found this interview with her and it's with a panel of men who roasted her, roasted her, if you can imagine. And she went missing after that, never to be found. And I even tried to do her ancestry to find her because I'm pretty good at that. And she may have went to France, but ghost. And she said at the very end of her book, she will have a second volume called Flame of the Dove. And she never did. Wow. I have no idea of any of this. Yeah.

No, who does? I would have never either. i didn't even mean all of this literally fell right but wow this is in the 1940 50s you know trying to put her story and her information out there about tesla and share this and she got shut down ghosted i don't know what happened to her yeah this is the question that i keep asking because whenever people do this research yeah and you know it's about empowerment of human beings but there seems to be pushback so bad like literally people died like socrates was killed by his government jesus was crucified by rome it's really weird i mean mean, I have to say it's very, very strange. The dove is very symbolic in many places around the world, right?

Yeah. It meets the presence, the presence of the sacred, like the literal here it is. You can't deny it. I mean, it comes to your door. You have doves born on your door in a wreath. I mean, that's so symbolic. I've never experienced anything like that. And it was, there was so much secret. If the dove wasn't so important in my journey that I had already. So I do have a private podcast that I was recording this on just me, kind of like what you were saying. I didn't know what was going on. So I'm writing down and recording this as I was going through it. Now, looking back at it, things are making sense and they're adding up.

I mean, even dreams were leading me throughout this. I mean, it really was divine. Yeah. I shared it with other Gnostic scholars because that was the other thing is I was told by people who study Pistis Sophia, which is, I guess, one of the hardest things to read. They're like, you fast-tracked through that. Very strange. It was almost like it was orchestrated even somehow by me, like my higher self. Wow, that's so fascinating.

Isn't it? Yes, yes. I mean, the Margaret Storm stuff that you just told me. I know. If you ever look into it, please let me know. Because of course I would. I have really, you know, tried to do my own research on it and it bothers me. And you should get her book.

It's really it's just a copy of it. It's a horrible copy. Someone made a copy. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yeah, I'm going to. I mean, everything that you're telling me is fascinating it is fascinating and I feel like you're right though that there is this pushback yeah literally pushback yeah I've begun to think about the pushback as somewhat structural

because you know when I think about it like why would people want to push back on this like it just seems like it's positive you know net gain for everyone but it seems to be like structural like when socrates talked about it and plato wrote about it it was they said it was structural and then jesus talks about it too right and when you start to read and obviously when people begin to live it, right. And they find out the true history and things like that, there's this pushback inevitably. I believe that my own opinion, and I have nothing to support this, but this is just what I believe. And this is why I liked when Jose was talking to those people and he was basically saying, no, no, it's going to be all right. Is that that is going to be gone. I believe we're entering an age when that is going to be finished.

That's done. That's how I feel. Well, I came back stronger than ever. Yeah. After that dead, I had come across and learned of Helena Petrovna Blavatsky. And I start reading all of her work and she kind of put a fire under me because I was like, man, what a woman. And again, for me, my journey has been really about reclaiming the power for all the women before who couldn't. And that's why I was so excited to have you on,

Diana, because as a woman in your field and up against all those men, I mean, I, like I said, when I was journeying with you and you walking into all those situations, I just felt there was a lot of power behind that. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I do absolutely feel like this is a new thing that's happening or not new, but it's finally happening. That's how I feel. And I love all of the working with women through doing this. I focus on that too. So what's next for you? Well, I am working with some women. I'm working with Simone Plante. She's in my book. And I'm working with Dr. E.O. Whiteley. She's also in my book. And I'm at a point now where I don't know, but I have a feeling that it's going to be more

practice. It's going to be more, this is how you tune in. And so I teach a class with Simone on the protocols and, you know, teaching people basically, you know, connect now, this is how we do it. And I think that that's what I take from it. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm not trying to prove UFOs exist or anything like that. I'm basically at this change in culture where we're at, you know, with the change with AI and going into space and all of this. And we really need to, in my opinion, we can help ourselves by doing exactly what you did. You basically, it's called the examined life. If you're in philosophy, you basically examined your life and you said, what here is actually real and what has been programmed into me?

And you went through a process of losing the programs and like you fast-tracked yourself to instant connection. And that's exactly what I think. People can support each other. I just want to support people in doing that. That's how I feel right now. Me too. So I do have a website.

It's dwpasolka.com. Twitter as dwpasolka and Instagram. And I don't have any other things other than those three things. Thank you so very much for sharing this moment with me. I just appreciate you so much and your amazing books. I mean, both of them are so great. And I feel like this is conversations that are going to be more normal, right? That are going to be more.

Yes. I like how you put it, the new normal. And I can't wait to read your book too. And absolutely. We have to stay in touch. Well, thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you, Shanna.

Thank you so much. It was wonderful to speak with you. And I learned a lot. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. And thanks to our special guests for joining me. If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com, where you can work with me one-on-one or help support Sense of Soul Podcast by donating to my coffee fund. Thanks for listening.