Sense of Soul - Ancient Aliens and World Mythologies

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

One of our favorite guest has joined us again, the 5th Kind Host, Paul Wallis.  He join us last year to discuss his first book, Escaping from Eden.  Paul Anthony Wallis is a researcher, speaker and author on spirituality and mysticism. He is a healing practitioner and has worked as a theological educator and as an Archdeacon for the Anglican Church in Australia. Paul researches the world's mythologies for how they speak to our origins as a species and our potential today as human beings.  He joins us from his home in Australia to share more of his amazing knowledge, years of research of the Bible, creation, ancient scripture and translations. From ancient cultures like the Anunnaki to who is Elohim? Paul deep dives into this and more in this episode and in his latest book, The Scars of Eden: Has Humanity Confused the Idea of God with Memories of Et Contact?  You can pick up this book here… https://amzn.to/3klyBY3   Learn more so much more at his websites… https://paulanthonywallis.com  https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulWallis https://5thkind.tv/  Watch this video : https://youtu.be/PGdLN90ZyC8 The Legendary Erich von Däniken joins Paul Wallis on the 5th kind! “ I absolutely recommend, The Scars of Eden” says – Erich Von Daniken the author of Chariots of Fire. *Don’t forget to rate, follow and leave us a comment! Please go check out our Sense of Soul’s merch and workshops including Shanna’s CLEAR ancestry workshop and learn more about us @ www.mysenseofsoul.com! **Exclusively NOW on Sense of Soul Patreon  is the 777 Chakra Journey, 7 weeks 7 Chakras, beginning with the Root Chakra and end at the Crown Chakra at the end of 2021!  You can also listen to Shanna’s mini-series about her ancestral journey, “Untangled Roots” and Mande’s mini series about her two NDE’s has begun.  https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today, one of our favorite guests has joined us again, the fifth kind host, Paul Wallace. He joined us last year to talk about his book, Escaping Eden. Paul Wallace is a researcher, speaker, and author on spirituality and mysticism. He is a healing practitioner and has worked as a theological educator and as an archdeacon for the Angelical Church in Australia. Paul researches the world's mythologies for how they speak to our origins as a species and our potential today as

human beings. He joins us from his home in Australia to share more of his amazing knowledge and years of research on the Bible creation and translations and deep dives into the world's mythologies. Looking for answers for if we had confused the idea of God with ancient ET visitations, and what difference does it make for society today? And he has written this all in his new book, The Scars of Eden. Has humanity confused the idea of God with memories of ET contact? We are super excited to find out just that. Welcome back, Paul. How are you? G'day, I'm tip-top, thank you. And how's yourself, Shanna?

I'm good. Nice to see you. Likewise. I've been listening to all of your documentaries and your book. It's been just an adventure on its own, just researching you. Fantastic. Good on you. You know, I send my son a lot of our podcasts and I usually don't get much feedback from him. But when I sent him yours, it was like instant feedback. And he was like, send me more, send me more, send me more. Oh, fantastic. Well, tell him to send me a message through my website and we can get into a conversation. Yeah. And speaking of that, I was telling Shanna that you are so good with a way you respond to people on like your YouTube

videos who, you know, give you feedback. You're just so classy, tactful, and you take such a great position in the way that you explain things. It's really refreshing to see that because a lot of times it's a back and forth, especially with social media this day, but kudos to you and I enjoy reading it. Well, thank you for saying that. Yes, social media is probably the least flattering with regard to human interactions because things get very polarized and very angry very quickly and as you know we're going through this period in history where our society is very atomized and we're at each other's throats and we're really being divided a lot of the time by what happens in mainstream and social media. And I think if you put out videos

like I do, which are inviting people to have a conversation, then you have to then enable that conversation. You can't put something out. Someone comes and says, oh, I disagree. I think this. You can't shut them down. Otherwise, there's no conversation. What's the point of putting your content out in the first place if you're going to do that with people? My whole purpose is I put this out there. Sometimes I might put things a little bit more strongly than might be my position so that people will come into the conversation. and finesse what's going on, it's very rarely that I have somebody come on, either on the Fifth Kind TV or on the Paul Wallace channel, who is just there to shout their opinion. 90% of the time, at least, if I respond and say, well, can you tell me a little more why

you think that, or the reason I'm saying that is this 90% of the time we do actually get into a conversation where we can respect each other's humanity respect each other's views and maybe both of us come away considering something that we might not have considered before but that's the purpose of a conversation isn't it yeah that's that's what it should be right speaking of that it was years ago definitely not awakened to even playing with the idea of what we're about to talk about I was very much still in my bible and my partner had started gosh this is probably about 10 years ago, watching Ancient Aliens when it was first on. And I was like, whoa, God, here you go again, talking about that crazy stuff. You know, he would like tell me stuff and I just would blow it off. And what was so funny is that I really

wasn't hearing him. There was something blocking me from even, even hearing it because I was so conditioned, I think. And I was like, no, this is what the Bible says. This is the way it is. And actually, when I read the Bible, that is not what the Bible says. No, it's so easy to read the views you already hold into the Bible if you just read it too quickly. You really have to make a very deliberate effort to stop, put your conclusions to one side, try and take it from scratch, and literally go through

key passages one word at a time asking, what do these words mean? And without doing that, it doesn't have the power to unravel conclusions you've already drawn. So you'll find very familiar words and you'll think, oh, I know what that means. I know what kingdom means. I know what new birth means. I know what punishment means. I know what heaven means. And all those words, actually, there are very important questions to be asked about all of them. And so you can miss the fact that you're reading a text that's about space travel because you haven't stopped to ask what does the word heaven mean or you can miss that you are reading a text about tapping the powers of the cosmos because you again haven't asked what the word heaven means. You can read the word hell in a

translation and think you're reading the church doctrine instead of asking what was the Greek word? What did that mean? And so I often tell people if they want to drill a bit deeper into what's going on in any text, but certainly in the Bible, you need to pause and ask every word, what does it mean? And if you can get hold of an interlinear for the Bible, that's a great tool, because then you've got the Greek in front of you. And as soon as you've got a foreign language, you're forced to say, I don't know that word. What does it mean? But if you think in English and you read in English, you're going to miss a lot of vital questions. So having an interlinear or even just having a couple of different translations can clue you to the fact that there's something interesting going on in

the text that might open up a completely different story to the one you're familiar with. I mean, the first one. Start with the very first sentence. Exactly. That's exactly right. And that's why, just taking a big view here, there was a massive change in Christianity in the 1500s called the Reformation, when about half the world stopped and asked the question, have we been reading that right? I don't think we have. And that was because all of a sudden, out in print for people to read was a Greek translation of the New Testament. So all of a sudden, people who could read,

which certainly wasn't everybody in the 1500s, but people who could read had a foreign language in front of them and so they were forced to ask what does that word mean and as they did that centuries of well let's say lies uh could be peeled away lies told by a powerful institution that was a global institution, the biggest property owner in the world, could be peeled back because people had the Greek text in front of them and could ask, what does that word mean? And really, all my work in paleontology at Paleo Contact,

with escaping from Eden, with the scars of Eden, it all comes back to asking those questions. What do these words mean? It baffles me just how much words and vocabulary have held so much power over the way our world is today and how it's led. I mean, if you really think about it, it really boils down to those words, doesn't it? And how it's led. I mean, if you really think about it, it really boils down to those words, doesn't it? And how they're translated. Whole agendas can be pinned to a single word.

A word can trigger years of programming and entrainment. If you can disempower the word by retranslating it, then you've just stepped out of that whole paradigm that you've been programmed in. So I, Mandy and I've definitely, this has been a huge part of, I think, anyone's journey when they're kind of awakening to their soul, their light within. You stop just believing everything you're told and you want to experience or you're curious about each word. And one time our friend, she had sent us over this light code activation and I'm laying there listening to it. And I'm like, wait, who's Elohim? Wait, hold up. I don't know who that is. And so looked it up and that still didn't give us a lot of answers, to be honest with you. It kind of confused us even more. We're like, is it one person? Is it a council? Is it God?

What is Elohim? Yes, that was the white rabbit for me that took me into this whole rabbit warren of interconnected topics to do with human origins, human potential, our place in the cosmos. But I had learned the word Elohim at theological college. It was sort of mentioned in passing that curiously it was a plural noun, but we translated as God. And we were kept so busy writing essays to prepare us to lead churches that we really didn't have the time to get back to ask, what? Wait a minute. What did you just say? And so it really was years and years before I was able to get back to that absolutely fundamental question. It is the word that is translated as God from the beginning of the Bible, one of the words. And it is a masculine plural form. And it takes plural form verbs and attributives. It exhibits plural behaviors. And then as the stories go on, you realize plural agendas. And bit by bit, as I did that study,

and this was all the work that led me into escaping from Eden, I began to realize that Elohim is a council of beings. And not all the beings are the same as each other or the same kind of being or have the same kind of agenda or the same kind of relationship to Project earth or project humanity and it was as i drilled down into that that i reached a point of saying okay what if what if this really is a simple plural and it refers to a number of beings what if we reread all the elohim stories in that light how do the stories change and i discovered that the stories changed but not in a random way that they changed in a way that made them line up with the ancient Mesopotamian stories from out of Babylonia, Arcadia, Assyria, Sumeria and then ran in parallel with narratives from all

around the world and I suddenly realized I had some rapid learning I had to do. And I had to return to stories that I had sort of heard in one way, folklore, fairy tale, and ask some different questions. What's going on here? What actual events or cultural memories are being curated by these stories? And I was suddenly living in a much bigger world where every culture now could speak to me and present to me the ancestral narratives

that they have so carefully curated over generations to explain who we are and what we're doing here. Where's the root Elohim come from? The Hebrew word, it means powers or powerful ones. So part of my questioning was, which does it mean? Does it mean powers or powerful ones? Because I was finding some Hebrew scholars who were saying, oh, well, it means powers and it means the superlative powers of God. Well, you've only got to read the stories to work out that can't be right because the superlative powers of God don't fight each other and slaughter thousands of human beings in the process.

And so I thought, gee, I need to find some higher grade Bible translators than these ones. So I went to the senior editor for the New Jerusalem Bible, which is a phenomenal translation of the Bible, wonderful scholarly footnotes about the sources, about the translation questions. And I remembered that it was a good translation for being very open about the different words for God and the parallels and roots in Mesopotamian story so I thought he's going to be a good guy to speak to now the New Jerusalem was published oh I think way back in about 1987 so I hoped he was still with us and I found out yes he is he's still with us he's alive and well and I was able to get into contact with him and he was very helpful in encouraging me in my line of inquiry not that he shares all my conclusions I should say that in case okay but he encouraged me to

know that I was on a strong track and that this understanding of powerful ones in a plurality of beings was clearly the original form of the Bible stories. And so that was what made the penny drop for me, that I was actually on a stronger footing than all these academic commentaries that I had read from eminent theologians and Bible translators who were actually tiptoeing around this crucial subject rather than answering the obvious question. And I thought, well, if it has to be me without PhDs coming out of my ears who are going to step up to the plate and say, all right, everybody, let's get real here. This is what the word means. This is how the stories go. Then I'll do it. And I was really encouraged when last year I had a conversation with Eric von Daniken on the Fifth Kind TV. And I said to him, do you have top academics who will come to you privately and say, Eric,

I know you're on the right track, but I can't say that publicly. And he said, yes, absolutely. And I said, doesn't that drive you mad? And he said, no, it doesn't. Because if I respect their privacy, they will continue to be friends with me and they will continue to give me information that I can then relay in my books. I've got so much of my information from those sources. And he said, you have to accept your role as a writer, that it is generally people who are not the professors, who don't have the tenured positions who have to challenge the orthodoxy the challenge to change will almost never come from the mainstream of academia it's the writer's role to do that to put something on the table and then the academics can

say oh this is interesting let's have a conversation it. And that's how the mainstream can inch forward by discussing what the crazy writer has said. Do you think that the council is the archangels? Well, angels and archangels are words that we find in our ancient texts to describe beings whose genus of biology is never detailed or explained to us or their cosmic origin the word angel just means messenger or agent whether you're looking at the hebrew word for it or the greek or the english that's what it means it means an agent someone with an assignment or a messenger someone with a message and so there are entities that Christians or people of Jewish faith might have described as angels or archangels which are as biological as you or me and you read some of

the stories and you realize not only are they biological like us but they're similar enough to us that they can hybridize with us and those stories of hybridization are all around the world in the bible but in every country and culture you could wish to name those stories are there more than just in the, you found that in other texts too, that they were actually mating with the humans? Absolutely, and it's a very big part of what I write about in The Scars of Eden. It's interesting because I think a lot of people who come into the world of ufology or paleo contact from the world of faith often the introduction to the idea that there might be other non-human biological entities in the cosmos comes in genesis 6 where you've got

this interbreeding or hybridization that's right the story of the the nephilim and the bene elehim just before the flood in genesis 6 and and the way ithim just before the flood in Genesis 6. And the way it's translated at the moment, you've got these strange entities, these sons of God, as it's translated, the Bene Elohim. I translate that as ones like the powerful ones, the second wave of powerful ones. The text says they look down at the planet and they said, wow, Earth girls are hot. Let's, which is true. Let's have some of that in our gene pool, they say.

And so they come down and they hybridize. And the kids who result from those unions might start off just looking like every other human being on the planet, except they don't have any growth inhibitor and so they grow into giants the greeks call the titans what the hebrews call the nephilim possibly the anakin and it's a little bit like what happens when you mate a lion with a tiger which produces a creature called a liger and And I think the growth inhibitor is with the female lion and the male tiger. So if you make them the other way around, the children won't have the growth inhibitor.

And so a liger is much bigger than a lion. And in the same way, the Nephilim were much bigger than the Bene Elohim and the humans who came together to four adam's daughters so well it would be like any normal birth but then they'll end up with a son who's going to eat them out of house and home because it's 10 feet tall that it's that kind of story so we have that story there and very interestingly intriguingly genesis 6 assumes you've read the longer version of the story in the book of enoch where it's all detailed and it says these were watchers who were in observation stations surrounding planet earth and it was

they who wanted some shore leave and came and breached some prime directive, we could call it, and hybridized and created this situation that was a huge controversy among the powerful ones. And it resulted in this edict that there should be a genocide on the planet to get rid of what had happened. So that's the Bible story. Well, I touch on that in Escaping from Eden. It was part of my book, which explores the question of whether there may be an ET intervention in the story of our evolution. Now, I was preparing for Escaping from Eden to come out, and I suddenly realized I was going to have to tell my parents-in-law about the theme of my new book. Now, my parents-in-law are lovely people, Patience and Kofi. They're from Ghana. They are devout Christians of Baptist and Pentecostal

stock. And I thought they might find my book a little confronting. So I had better prepare them. You are brave, Paul. Because I do want to stay their son-in-law so they came and stayed with us for the weekend in Canberra at one time and after we'd had most of the weekend and we're all relaxed and we'd had some nice food and some nice wine I thought okay this is the moment so I said Patience and Kofi let me tell you about this next book I've got coming because you might find it surprising and so I told them what it was about. And they sat there giving no reaction. As I told this story, poker faces. I had no idea this was going on, going down. And when I finally finished, my father in law sat back and he said, Paul, a penny has dropped.

And what he meant was that all the stories he was familiar with that are told as God's stories in the Old Testament, but that are stories of genocide and violence and awful treatment of human beings by the almighty, unforgiving, unpredictable suddenly all that resolved and made sense because these are not the stories of god these are stories of the elohim these other entities who colonized planet earth in our deep past so that was the penny that dropped for him and then my mother-in-law, patience, led forward and she said, Paul, we already know this story. Because in Ghana, you grow up and you'll be told the Orthodox Christian story. You'll be told the mainstream scientific answers to questions.

But we also know stories that are generations old in our country of people being abducted by another presence on planet earth that looks human but isn't human and that is here because there's some kind of a hybridization program going on well my jaw dropped now here's this about christian mother-in-law i had you're like why didn't you tell me this i could have saved myself a lot of research before and then she said something even more astounding she said we're very closely connected with another family to whom this happened their adult daughter went missing for three years it was from a beach in the Keta district of the Volta region of Ghana. She was on the beach and she went missing. Three years later, she reappears. She makes her way to her family home.

She's looking fine. She's looking perfectly well. And her parents are thrilled to have her back, but it takes a long time before their daughter tells them what had happened obviously they want to know why didn't you contact us over these last three years what happened they assumed she'd been kidnapped but there was never any ransom note or maybe she was slave trafficked or sex trafficked or that this was a failed elopement. Some relationship they didn't know anything about with some bad guy and it had gone wrong. So they just had to sit and wait for the moment when their daughter would tell them.

And finally, she told her mother, she said, the reason I didn't contact you was because I couldn't. The reason I couldn't was because I was held in an underwater base where there was no technology for me to reach. I was made to have two children while I was away. Then the thing that she finally told them, the people who held me were not human. They were Mami Water people. Well, when she used that label,

her parents knew what she was talking about because the Mammy Water stories are ages old in Ghana. And it is the story of this non-human presence involved in hybridization. They want to strengthen their gene pool with human DNA, and they're similar enough to us that they can do that. Well, I thought, what an extraordinary story. But it sent me on a journey of discovery. I realized that story is not only told in the folklore of Ghana, you can find it in Kenya, you can find it all down the eastern seaboard to the southern cone, all up the western seaboard of Africa. It's told in the Caribbean. You can go as far east as the Philippines, where in their language they have words that exist only to tell these stories of abductions and hybridization. Those words have their roots in Indian language.

Go to Greece, and this is a totally mainstream story. the whole of Europe is named after an ET abductee Europa so the ancient story goes was abducted by a non-human entity who took her across the sea had three hybrid children with her one of them was called Minos. Now we've got two historical people in the story, Europa, who was the daughter of a king of Phoenicia. And now we've got Minos, who was the progenitor of the Minoan culture. So this story, this girl, abducted, hybridized child, Minos, that is taught as history in Greece. That is the beginning of European history. It's not told as ufology or some crazy fairy tale. That is who Europe is named after. You then go into the Norse countries, the same stories told there. The Greeks have their

same stories of the gods and the titans and then you go into Celtic countries now every place you go every one of these elements repeats so you can go to Scotland Ireland Wales the Welsh tell the story of Tilworth Teague which is the story of people who were taken from near water to underwater bases held for a number of years used for hybridization and then returned but the offspring remain with the others who look human but are not human and in almost all these stories the people are not taken by force they are enticed they are given a promise of greater intelligence greater health so that when they're returned they will live a more powerful more successful life because of all the advantages they've gleaned

from their time with the others when i realized that this story is told all around the world by every culture you could wish to name it made me realize how strange it is that when people report abductions in the 21st century, let alone hybridization stories, we react as if we'd never heard the like before. And how crazy must this person be to come forward with this story? And have they really just done this for their $50 from the National Enquirer? That's how we respond. Failing to recognize this is just people in our generation reporting an experience that human beings have been reporting for thousands of years. And in the Bible. And in the Bible. That's absolutely right.

My God, why didn't we know this? We've been conditioned. We've been conditioned to ridicule it. Yeah. We had on a rabbi. His name's Rabbi Harry Rosenberg. Now, first of all, being a Christian, I think I was never open to even understanding what they believed. I just assumed they believed the Old Testament that I was reading. And he, he really blew me away when he told us that many of the stories in the Bible are like hallucinations were stories that were done on a different plane, spiritual world yes and I'm like he's and he's I'm like have you always known this he's like yes like that is what we have always taught and I'm like why wasn't I told this before yeah I'm like how much of it I need to know this

well of course he said not all of it of of course. No. But, you know, many stories are. When you are, you know, in that theta brainwave or when you are in deep meditation, I think that literature is this? What am I reading? Is this history or is this a story? Is this history or is this a vision? And I think there are some stories that we have read, thinking we have to take them literally, that may be story. And I think that includes some of what happens in the gospels but then there are other texts that we have taken as not hallucinations but visions that may actually be very very concrete and so you get to a text like Ezekiel having his close encounter I think he's describing exactly what happened. But through the ages, we said that's a vision because we can't accommodate what he's telling us. In the past,

we didn't have the language of close encounters or wormholes or aliens or rocket launches. And so when we read that or Moses' encounter on Mount Sinai, we don't have a framework for it. And so when we read that or Moses' encounter on Mount Sinai, we don't have a framework for it. And so we think, well, this must be something spiritual. This must be a vision. This must be a metaphor. Now we can go back to some of those texts and say, no, they're telling us exactly what they saw. And then others that we've taken very literally, the writers would want to say, guys, this is just a story. And so you really have to ask that question every time as well. What is this I'm hearing? How should I be listening to this? I often say that with regard to the creation stories in Genesis, you've got a couple of layers

there. I think you've got a visual memory of the terraforming of our planet after a cataclysm, and that's the original form. But then I think it's been retold at some point by a writer who has a more spiritual, esoteric story to tell. If I were to ask the elder of some traditional tribal culture, could you tell me why there's this incision made between the big toe and the adjacent toe of your young males when you do initiation at the age of 13? If the elder says to me, way, way in history back, when the world was perfect, and the animals could

speak, he wouldn't have to say much more before i'd be thinking this might not be a scientific answer this might be a different kind of story yeah and you so you need to look for clues like that and that's called form criticism when you go through bible college they'll tell you that's form criticism you look for the clues to tell you what kind of literature is it. And that's a really vital thing. And then there's the source criticism. Where did this story come from? And what was the original form? How has it been changed?

And then there's the building block questions of what do these words mean? And these are all the tools that I like to play with and use to drill down into ancient stories and unearth stories that are new to us from within stories that are very familiar to us. Hey, did you know that Sense of Soul now has a Patreon where you can get exclusive episodes, mini series that Mandy and I have been working on for a long time that we can't wait to share with you. Monthly readings, Sense of Soul Sacred Circles, workshops, behind the scene clips and much more.

Hop on Sense of Soul Patreon right now and sign up. So question, Anunnaki's, Sky People. We talked about it a little bit on the past episode where do you think that they originated oh that's a great question in the texts that speak of the sky people so we're talking about the sumerian babylonian arcadian and assyrian they're identified as coming down from the heavens to planet earth so they've come from space in modern parlance and some argue that that's what the word anunnaki means from the heavens to the earth a word that tells us these are beings not from here, they're from outer space. Further into those narratives, the name Nibiru comes up,

and Zechariah Sitchin believed this was a reference to another planet that was previously part of our solar system. Personally, I haven't reached that conclusion because i think within the stories themselves i would only identify nabiru by the role it plays which is as the mother community so it's a mother spaceship or a space station of some kind from which the other craft emanate so you could say from there but where ultimately well again if i listen to ancestral narratives from around the world regions of space keep cropping up and particular regions so the pleiades you will hear about the pleiades if you sit at the feet of native American cultures, Aboriginal Australian cultures, and even in the Bible, even in the Bible, which is absolutely, it's very interesting. It's in the Book of Job, which some scholars believe is, in fact, the earliest written book in the Bible,

older than the book of genesis they believe many scholars that it's an arabic book that somehow migrated its way into the bible and it identifies three regions of space that exercise control over the affairs of planet earth the pleiades orion and sirius and what's intriguing about that they're all identified in a single sentence in the book of job those are the three regions of space that recur most frequently in world mythologies and ancestral narratives all around the planet there are other regions of space mentioned but in my reading it's those three that crop up the most frequently. And the Pleiades is always a positive association. The indigenous stories from out of North America and Australia

speak of people coming from the Pleiades to nurture human society in the deep past, to teach us how to live on the planet in harmony with the planet, how to farm, what plants are good for eating, what plants are good for eating what plants are good for medicine how to do sanitation so on and so forth that's the people from the Pleiades and then we have others from Sirius again positive associations Orion a little bit more mixed whether you go to Egypt Mesoamerica Australia America, those regions of space keep cropping up. Now, whether or not that's where the Anunnaki of the Sumerian stories come from, I don't know. I haven't been able to make that correlation. But the short answer to the question is they come from other

regions of our cosmos. We were just talking about Syrians, Pleiadians, all this stuff. Do you believe in starseeds, kind of like Dolores Cannon, the three waves, like these different planetary beings coming down, seated to help this planet, whether it's technology, do they help us move in a very quick way, even in my lifetime? Have they helped us evolve? Have they helped us with the earth? What do you think about star seeding? Well, yes, the story of star seeds overlaps with what we were talking about before with regard to hybridization. Because if you start with the Bible again, if you go to the story of the conception of jesus you'll realize oh

actually this isn't so unique it's almost exactly the same as what happened to his cousin john the baptist and you read his conception story and you think hang on i've never read something like this before wasn't this the story of samson yes it was you read the story of samson hang on isn't this what happened with Abraham and Sarah and their son Isaac? Yes, it is. They are all very similar stories. And if we go back to the first one, you've got Abraham and Sarah having a close encounter with three Elohim before Sarah, who's postmenopause, suddenly conceives and has Isaac. Two very interesting things in that story. The first is Elohim, I argue, is the Hebrew word for Anunnaki. So we've

got three ETs encounter this couple. And subsequent to that, there's a pregnancy. And the person who results is the beginning of a whole new thread within human history. How significant Isaac is, I think, becomes even clearer when you realize there's a parallel story from out of India. Abraham and Sarah in the Hebrew tradition are the progenitors of the people, the Jewish people, the Hebrews. Brahma and Saraswati, in the Hindu tradition, are the progenitors of humanity. Those names are rather similar. Yeah. And those roles are rather similar. What if Abraham and Brahma are the same and Sarah and Saraswati are the same? In that case, what you have is a close encounter with another civilization, with just the Jewish people, a whole new story of humanity that emanates.

And that's why Abraham means the father of many nations or the father of the many nations. So Abraham suddenly becomes like an Adam figure. There's a new human story that emanates from him. And it's curious that the next generation down from isaac identifies two different kinds of human being one who don't think it has to do with the lost tribes though uh ah it dovetails with that in a different way but if i point out that abraham and sarah have two grandchildren who appear to be two different kinds of human being. One is not very smart and is covered in hair so thick that his blind father thinks can't

distinguish between that and the height of a goat. And one who is smooth skinned and very intelligent and gains dominance over the earlier model, the hairy one. So this is the story of Jacob and Esau what on earth is that story two kinds of human being one hairy not very smart when one smooth that gets the upper hand that could be a far more ancient story that could be the memory of the time when we the smooth skin ones managed to get dominance over our relatives who were not quite so evolved so you now realize i think if you can take that seriously we've got a mish-mashing of a lot of stories of beginnings that have been layered on top of each other and you mentioned the lost tribes scholars probing into the question of where the jewish people the semitic peoples

originate and it's very difficult to separate that from indian stories and again that could be far far older than ever we've imagined if we take everything at face value in terms of the chronologies of the bible then everything is only 4 000 years old and we know exactly where everything happened. The truth is far more complex, that we have layers of stories, some beginnings that may be hundreds of thousands of years old referenced in those stories that have been retold, retold, and then squeezed into a single story so that you will find the clues. If you go to the story of the flood, you'll realize there are two flood accounts that have been glued together to form the familiar story. Same flood, we ask? Well, we're not sure, are we? Or read from Genesis 1 to Genesis 11, you've got three global resets of civilization name at least could be four if it's two floods so is that four resets or four memories of one reset

we don't know but i would suggest that by the time we're in genesis 11 we've got story that takes us back into geological time because we've got verses there that talk about all the continents being joined and the separation of the continents, which happened in the time of Peleg, we're told. But that doesn't line up with anything we know about the chronology of human beings.

So that must be talking about a previous civilization on planet Earth prior to anything we know we did. It's not a single story. It's not a single chapter of this single story. We've got a world of stories about planetary resets and human origins that need separating out and looking at. And as we do that, then I think when you come to someone like Plato saying that every few thousand years, the planet Earth suffers an impact from the movement of objects in space that will reset the planet

and things will have to start from scratch again. In the past, no one had any idea what to do with that assertion. Well, now that we know about asteroids and comets, now we can see the clues of previous civilizations. We begin to get an idea of what someone like Plato might have meant. I'm just like sitting here speechless, so much to wrap my head around. Oh my God. I mean, is this work going to ever end for you? I mean, does this go on and on? Is this for your entire life? Like I'm intrigued by what you researched and what you found, but I'm also so intrigued by you as a human,

like the amount of research and time and attention to detail. And I mean, I picture you like at this table with like hundreds of papers spread out where you're cutting out a word and picking it with another and like every language. I mean, wow, this is a lot. Yeah, it is a lot. It's something I love doing. I've always had a passion for language before I got into theology. And that's really the thing that's propelled me on this journey. It is a never ending journey because there are so many topics that join up. It's not just about what happened in the past. It's about what's happening now, how we can live our lives,

what's possible for us as people. But the other day I did a live stream on my channel, the Paul Wallace channel, and I was showing my premium members some of my tools of the trade, and I was showing them all the different books I use. So that picture of all the books spread around, I was literally showing people my desk and saying this I go from here to here to here here's how we drill into this here's how we go

beyond this and a few people said oh my goodness that's a lot of work but it's so exciting and the implications are so huge yeah it doesn't feel like work to me it feels like a journey that I'm enjoying and I'm enjoying sharing it as I go and your mother your mother and father-in-law still like you so you can keep on going I know it's a great relief and my own parents as well who are right at the beginning of this story in a way because um it was they who introduced me to the work of Eric von Däniken when I was 11 years old, which put in my mind the question of what's the nature of the cosmos we live in? What's the true nature of the story of our evolution? Have there been external interventions in our story to make sense of stories that we can't explain so that was one thing and I think also I was very blessed by having parents who were not

doctrinaire who didn't want to force me to believe what they believed or didn't just want to regurgitate things they'd been taught and were more than willing to entertain their young son's eccentric questions. I love that. I think they're really pleased that they did that because they are enjoying the journey with me. And my dad, he's part of a church in the UK and he's part of a Bible study group. And every so often he'll have a coffee with the leader of the Bible study group because they're following all these conversations and thinking, how does this work? And I'm really pleased that my dad is part of the conversation as well, because he and my mom were the ones who set all this in train decades ago. And they are just with a raised eyebrow and enjoyment watching how it's all opening up all these decades later. I love that. I love how supportive they were. That's how I hope to be as a parent for my children. And I just got done watching the one on Jesus in India.

So you put out that possibly Jesus lived on and he lived through that and then went on to India. And so your family is still speaking to you after that one? Yes, my dad has had another coffee with his Bible study leader after those videos. And I mean, it's really interesting the conversations that flow from that, because I believe that Jesus was alive on both sides of the crucifixion. The question for me is how? And are we looking at a survival story, or is the traditional understanding of resurrection correct? But then there's another layer to it that really relates to ambit of all my research, and that is that we have these narratives from out of the middle east and to be provocative it's an uncorroborated narrative about the death and

resurrection of jesus i say uncorroborated because there's no reference to it direct reference to it in history the references to that story we have in history are all one degree removed. So you can read the writings of the Roman writers and Jewish chroniclers. So you've got Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny, who I studied all of those in school, and then Josephus, the Jewish chronicler. They all talk about the beliefs and behavior of the first christians no direct reference to the existence presence activity of jesus so for that we've just got this uncorroborated story curiously the one figure we do have a historical corroboration for was Jesus's brother, James. And yet, ironically, that's the one figure the Roman Catholic Church doesn't believe in. They don't believe Jesus had a brother. So the

one we've got a historical reference for, they deny. And the uncorroborated story is the story we've all been taught that they've rolled with. Doesn't mean it's not true. It's just not corroborated. But then go over to India and neighboring countries. You've got Tibet, Nepal, Puri in India, Ladakh, Kashmir, all corroborating each other's stories at an international level that Jesus of Nazareth was there. So the question is, how do you weigh those stories? You've got the uncorroborated one, albeit it's phenomenally popular, Orthodox Christianity, and then you've got these corroborated stories from out of India. How do you accept one and reject the other? Or do they in fact go together and give us a bigger picture? I think they go together and give us a bigger picture.

It raises questions about have we read the stories of resurrection right? Or are we looking at a story of survival that then the church has progressively interpreted? These are all the questions. And what I find in the conversations is that some people are very happy to explore these ideas, but often people who have a faith are worried that if they take this piece out to question it, then the whole edifice of their faith might collapse. And I'm trying to encourage people to say, no, it doesn't have to be that way, that you can ask questions. If you

want to deepen your understanding of your faith, you can ask questions of different bits of it without the whole thing collapsing. You might have to do a lot of reframing at some point, which I have had to do. And that is not easy. But I don't think a pursuit of truth is ever anything we should be frightened of. Not in the long run. It can be uncomfortable, but in the long run, don't you want to know the truth? I do. And you know, one of the things that I thought was very beautiful was that some of the books, like the book of Thomas, is one of my favorite writings. I mean, it is beautiful and it is not just told a story, it is quotes of Jesus. Yes, it's a really intriguing book. What happens at

the beginning of Christianity is you've got this great library of books, this great kaleidoscope of documents and theologies and ideas. And i've rediscovered that in the roots of christianity not only do you have paleo contact you've got astral travel you've got telepathic communication you've got channeling reincarnation pre-existence all these things are part of the mainstream conversation but then orthodoxy narrowed down and narrowed down and at some point that narrow orthodoxy became militarized when it got adopted as the imperial religion and when that happened all these other documents they didn't fit the narrative they were too complicating too empowering i think some of them

what the empire wanted was a simple picture of god at the top alongside the emperor then the senators and the bishops in the middle and the people at the bottom whereas if you go to some of the gnostic texts you've got a far more empowering picture than that for ordinary human beings and for that reason many of these texts including the gospel of thomas were literally buried for hundreds of years to protect them from being destroyed so that a future generation when the roman empire was gone could dig them up and say oh here are these other sayings about jesus so in the 300s was when these texts were being buried for their production in the nankamani desert and it wasn't until the 1900s that we dug them up and found documents like the gospel of thomas

and found not only a different account of things, but the Gospel of Thomas is especially valuable because I think it's older than the Gospels that are written, that made the cut, more primitive sayings that actually have a more, how can I put this? They open up a longer journey for you and a more mysterious journey. One other thing I wanted to ask you about in my ancestral journey that I did, I had discovered that I had bats. First of all, I don't know how those people are still surviving in this very small little culture in between France and Spain, two dogs all of this time they have the oldest

language in that area like what they say that it's closest to Chinese what have you heard that no I didn't know that that is really fascinating I did see it of course the ancient aliens episode that talked a lot about people were rh negative but I researched it because I had this girl in a retreat her and I drove together to and from it was like a four-hour drive so we spent a long time talking and she is rh negative this girl can't have a baby unless she takes certain, I forget what she has to take, but she has to get shots. She's allergic to everything. I mean, and she straight up is like, I just don't think I'm from here. And I was like, girl, I don't think you are either because the Basque people are Rh negative. They said that when they did their DNA, don't actually go back

to homo sapiens. DNA research is getting us into so much trouble these days, isn't it? Because it is unraveling so much of what we thought we knew. We've got that for a start. And we're now thinking, hold on, who were the Denisovans? Who were the Neanderthals? Yeah. How are we related? What's the story?

Now we've got a human story that's much older than we thought it was. Blood types is fascinating because Homo sapiens isn't a single breeding group. We are two breeding groups. So how on earth does that come about? Those differences do not correlate at all with ethnic and racial differences. So that's totally mind boggling. The stuff that I've researched on them is that they're very smart. They got all this technology and they also are great at trading and they've always been. And because they're on this really high mountain,

I read some stories that like they look grander than they are to other countries that try to approach them. Oh, I'm going to have to read up on the people. That's a fascinating story. What's interesting is that when you've got a small people group like that, and the Celtic stories are like that, because Celts live all around the world. They're always surrounded. They always have a very distinct cultural identity. I'm a quarter Welsh, so that's my Celtic. Okay. And the countries in which they exist,

because very rarely do they run a whole country, the countries in which they exist, I guess Eire would be an exception, often try and stamp them out as a cultural identity. So England tried to stamp out Welsh identity, and they've been doing that since about 1284, I think. So they've been going at it a long time. And in my grandfather's day my grandfather who was welsh they um they had this policy called the welsh knot where if a school child in wales

was found speaking welsh they would have this wooden board hung around their neck as a punishment and the only way they could get rid of that wooden board was to dob in another student who's speaking Welsh and then they'd have to wear the board whichever student was wearing the board at the end of the day would be thrashed and that was the policy of the department of education in Wales because they were trying to stamp out the Welsh language because if you don't have Welsh language you don't have Welsh literature you can't curate Welsh memory you can't have Welsh culture so that's typical of what imperial powers do and very often it's a matter of

invading someone else's country and then deleting and replacing their story. So the great example of this is what happened to Central and South America when the Catholic forces of Portugal and Spain went in there. They deleted the old narratives by burning the books, executing the priests, and then installing the Catholic schools, the Catholic churches to teach the new account of who we all are and what's going on. And that meant deleting the old accounts of who human beings are and where we'd all come from. That's happened all around. It happened in Australia. It's happened all around the world.

It happened in North America. That's why it's so strange that it never happened to them. Them having the oldest known language in that area in Europe, I think. I've always been like kind of intrigued because, you know, I have the Basque in me. Well, when we're allowed to travel the planet again, you're going to have to go there. Some more ancestral journey I have. I'll find out just how Palladian or Syrian or something I am. That's right. And it's funny you say that because I think a lot of people, if they're free to say this, will say, I've always felt I'm from somewhere else, or I've always been fascinated with the stars, or I feel I have a memory of some other place and many people have these little clues

that I think or or dreams that's right things that allude to the star seed story that you were talking about I was talking to a pastor the other day who had a young boy in their kids church and he was very young when the family started going there. I think he was four. And then when he was five or so, he said something like, I was a scientist before. And the pastor said, when was that? Oh, it was on another planet.

I was a scientist and this was my field. And the pastor was cluey enough to think all right this is interesting uh this could be something real so either this boy is um channeling the memories of some other person or being from another part of the cosmos or we've got a story i mean our ancestors would call it the transmigration of souls we would talk about past lives and the pastor was open to those ideas because of their own experiences and research so the pastor went and visited the family to ask the question of the mother was there anything interesting or different about your

pregnancy with this particular boy we'll call him john that was the question the pastor somehow wanted to get around to before the pastor could ask that question having walked into the house the grandmother just said i've seen fairies now most pastors most pastors would think oh okay grandma's a little um pastor prime here lovely oh that's lovely dear except this pastor knew that fairy stories are not what we think they are say the word fairy most people think Tinkerbell. Fairy, yeah. Do a bit of research and you'll realize that our ancestors, when they spoke about fairies, were not talking about cute little cartoon figures. They were talking about a non-human presence that abducted people for hybridization. There's that story again.

Whoa. So when the grandmother says, I've seen fairies, pastor thinks, what have you seen? Can you just describe those fairies to me? And the language comes out that we would more likely say, aren't you talking about a small gray? Because I think that's what the grandmother had seen. And then the mother said well actually yes I've got four children but this boy is different to the others he is super intelligent he's always been fascinated with space and I had a bizarre experience of light on the evening that he was conceived. You put all those pieces together, that is a star-charred narrative. Something happened that interfered with the conception and gestation process for

this boy, and out comes this boy who is incredibly smart, and now we realize has memories of another place. So this comes back to the stories of Jesus, John the Baptist, Samson, Isaac. Those are all star children or indigo children, to use that phrase. There is a close encounter with something non-human and a special child results. If you go to the painting of the Annunciation, so this is the moment when the angel appears to Mary to say, you're going to have a baby. Painting by Carlo Crivelli, I think it was 1486. How does he portray that moment? There's Mary.

There's a laser beam. Oh, it's going up into the sky. Oh, there's a flying saucer. A close encounter with a UFO in modern language shines a beam of light and has done something that is altering this conception of the person we all know as Jesus. The way the painter paints that is the way the writer tells the story of the conception of the yellow emperor, the way the writer tells the story of the conception of the yellow emperor the way the writer tells the story of the conception of Lao Tzu the founder of Taoism the way the writer tells the story of the Pasi Buddha the 22nd incarnation of Buddha before Siddhartha Gautama Buddha so you've got stories all around the world that talk about anomalous pregnancies and anomalous experience of light,

a child who is significant, spiritual, intelligent. Now, those are the famous stories. Our pastor was talking to someone who's not famous, but there are women all around the world today who will have stories like that that they hold very very tightly you know they're not going to tell that story unless it's just someone have you asked your mom yeah i don't i don't think uh i don't think she had anything like that your mom because i mean not to her recollection oh that's good all right i have one more question. Yeah. Who are we praying to? OK, are we praying to the council or are we praying to an extraterrestrial? Who are we praying to? Well, that's a great question.

Very often people who come to me for coaching, that's the question they're coming with. They might come from a faith start point. They may have had heaps of powerful paranormal or spiritual experiences through the years that have shown them they are in touch with something real through their faith. So now that I'm saying the God of many of the God stories isn't God at all, it's stories of ETs, this is the question. Well, who's God then? Who am I talking to? The Apostle Paul, I think, has a wonderful definition of God, which he gives in the book of Acts, chapter 17. It records a moment where he's talking to a non-Christian, non-Jewish audience. So he can't just use the word God and expect them to get what he's talking about. He has to define what he means. So he says, by God, I mean the source, the source of the cosmos and everything

in it, that in which we all live and move and have our being. With that view, our intelligence is a participation in source intelligence. Our consciousness is an aspect of source consciousness it's sort of just logical if you put it that way but the way he says it that in which we all live and move and have our being i love that vision because there's no separation we couldn't be any more intimately connected with the source than we already are there's nothing we have to do. And in that talk, he mocks the idea of sacrificial religion, the idea that the source needs us to provide it with anything, is ridiculous once you realize we're talking about the source. And that was Plato's vision of God as well, that we are all emanations of source consciousness, source intelligence, having individual experiences,

but we've come from the same place, we're having an individual experiences, but we've come from the same place. We're having an individual experience, and then we're going to go on to something else. Our consciousness proceeds and follows this material life. In the meantime, we engage with the source. So Jesus's first sermon, if we go to it and ask, what did those words mean? His first sermon sermon and according to the gospel of matthew retranslated he's saying go beyond the mind change your mind because change your way of thinking because the amazing power of the cosmic realm is available to all of us that's what happens when you retranslate it use the root meanings

of the words so again no separation and we can access cosmic power and cosmic intelligence so through the years i've had amazing answers to prayer questions answered, healing experiences. And how has this happened? I think it's because we really are intimately connected with the source, with cosmic power, and we really can learn to tap it. Mystical traditions have talked about how to tap that power. Shamanic traditions have. And their disciplines and modalities enable us to live more conscious, healthier, have better self-healing, healing of others, precognition, better telepathic connection,

taking us all up a notch when we engage with these things. So that's one aspect of it. But another aspect is this. Among the stories that got pushed out as Christian orthodoxy narrowed were a couple of stories that were not in the Gnostic texts. They're in the New Testament itself. 1 John 4 says, don't believe everything you hear from a spirit. Test what the spirits say. it up now that's a really intriguing text because it's talking about channeling and the writer isn't saying oh don't get in into that you could be deceived that's all occult that's new age no he doesn't say that he expects the early christians to be getting good information from some of these spirits but he says keep your sovereignty weigh it up for yourself does it make sense you decide never get into the space where you're going to say oh i did it because voices in my head told me to you're not going to have a good life if you live that way and you could end up in court

keep your sort of mental institution on a matter of institution yes use your discernment think for yourself does it make sense but you will be getting some good information that's what he's saying never at any point does he say what the spirits are which is really strange are they the spirits of ancestors are they your higher self are they the inherent intelligence of the cosmos itself are they energy-based beings communicating with you are they material beings like us who communicate telepathically he doesn't answer because apparently that doesn't matter what matters is that you keep your sovereignty and you think for yourself while being open to what you might hear. So that's rather interesting. So if you put your

question to the universe, you might get an answer from one of these spirits without knowing who it is. Could be a spirit of your ancestors, could be a great grandma. We don't know. But you put your questions and you'll get answers from your spiritual team. And I believe every one of us has a spiritual team around us, wanting us to succeed, wanting us to have a good human experience. And if we're willing to put our questions out there to the universe, which I do out loud, I speak, and I say, Oh, how can I do this? And then very often, the answer will come very quickly. So you've got your invisible team there. And then the invisible team is also referenced in Hebrews, Hebrews 12, verses one and two. Hebrews 11 talks about this great array of

people through history who'd done all sorts of remarkable things. And then the writer says, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses. Let us run with perseverance. The race is marked out for us. They're watching us. And 1 John 4 suggests you might be actually able to tap that wisdom. And so this is the world I now live in. I have a team around me who want me to succeed, who want me to have a good human experience. And it's well worth asking my questions of God and the universe. And my answer might come from that team.

Or it might come from a conversation like this, where you just happen to say something that's the answer to the question I asked this morning. And I think if you can go at life with that kind of openness, expecting answers to your questions, expecting to make a journey, then it will happen. If you look for it, you will notice it when it happens. I feel like clapping for you. Hallelujah, literally. Thank you. Paul, you are just amazing. It is so wonderful to know you because when I would seek, you know, someone to validate online space who we can get to know and compare notes with, because you might not have anyone in your family or your street or your workplace or your school or college is willing to have these conversations or consider these ideas. And I think also that's why platforms like yours are so vital. I think, Shannon and Mandy, what you do is wonderful

because it gives people a space to have conversations and thoughts who might not have anyone in their natural network who can validate their thinking for them. So I've always talked about my story around my near-death experience. Was it a lie the way I used to describe it? Never. My truth has always been my truth. My truth has just evolved because I've gotten more knowledge and more wisdom to look at the experience that I had and it shifted. Yes, indeed. I mean, Paul, I'm sure you feel that way. You probably look back at what your teachings were like at the beginning. It wasn't that you were teaching lies.

It's just what you have learned has now evolved. That's right. It's just what I knew at the time. And I think you're right. It really is just a process of, to use a New Testament phrase, adding to your knowledge. There are moments when it feels like your faith has fallen down because there is you've got so many questions oh i don't know what i believe now to what is real and you will go through moments like that but they are only moments they are only

part of the process of adding to your knowledge and the reason it's so good to be in contact with one another is those are the moments when we need the encouragement of no, don't be scared. I've had those same questions myself. And just to encourage each other that it is a good journey, that there really is no reason to be afraid of adding to your knowledge and seeking truth, because's good and true remains and you're only going to lose stuff that is illusion yeah let it fall away let the illusions fall away and make space for wisdom amen thank you so much for having me on you tell everybody where to get your book both from yeah absolutely for escaping from eden and the scars of eden you can go to Amazon, Kindle,

Barnes and Noble, Hive, Book Depository, wherever books are sold, you'll find Escaping from Eden and the Scars of Eden. Get hold of those. And if you want to talk to me about what you're experiencing or what you've read there, you can find me on the Paul Wallace channel on YouTube or the Fifth Kind TV on YouTube. If you're interested in doing coaching with me, come to my website, which is paulanthonywallace.com. Anthony with an H Wallace, W a L L I S paulanthonywallace.com. You can find me there and you can keep up with everything I'm into on my

website. Awesome. And now it's time for break that shit down. Oh, I think right now is a time when we have to be very conscious about our emotional state. There's so much that is atomizing us as a society that is depressing and worrying. I think that thing of keeping your sovereignty is really important. And I mean that particularly with regard to your emotional state. Just make that decision before you step out of bed. With what energy are you going to live today?

Before you step out of the front door, what contribution are you going to live today? Before you step out of the front door, what contribution are you going to make? Will it be one of exasperation, irritation, anger, frustration, anxiety? Or are you able to step out the front door and say, I'm going to encourage anyone I come across because I know we're all feeling a bit pressured at the moment. If you're able to make that kind of a decision, it's amazing the impact that has on you. Because if you can give some uplift to another person, guess what, you come away feeling better. And the

more you can lift others and lift yourself, the better you are to be creative in every regard. Creative with regard to how you live among your loved ones, creative with regard to your thinking. It's very difficult to go on a journey of learning new stuff if you are in a really anxious place. Whereas if you can get yourself a bit more uplifted, enjoying the things that you enjoy, feeling playful, any exploration becomes fun. And that's why I was saying earlier, my research doesn't feel like work. It feels like fun. We're all in situations that we can't control. So forget about controlling it. Forget about managing it even. Just ask yourself, what am I going to bring to the mix today? Well, I know what you brought to the mix today.

You brought a lot of fun. I know that Shanna's probably not going to sleep tonight because she took notes like crazy. And now she's going to go Google and read and find and research all of this amazing stuff you've shared with us. I'm going to go and research the pay bask as well. So we can talk about that next time. Do share if you find anything fun.

I will. All right, Paul. Thank you so much. Pleasure. All the best. Talk to you again sometime. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week.

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