Sense of Soul - Cult Survivor Reclaims Happiness

Episode Date: September 26, 2022

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast we have author Renee Linnell, former surf model, professional Argentine Tango dancer, and a serial entrepreneur with an Executive Masters in Business Administration from New York University. Renee made her publishing debut in 2018 with her book, The Burn Zone, a memoir of her experience as a cult survivor. She joined us to share her newly now  published book, Still on Fire: A Memoir.  In her first book, The Burn Zone was an exploration of what happens when we don’t listen to our Inner Guidance, Still on Fire is an exposition of what happens when we do. Renee courageously takes leap after leap into the unknown, picks up the pieces after being shattered, or recounts hilarious attempts to regain her mojo, you will see yourself in her stories. You will remember it is not only okay, but necessary to try and fail. And your heart will lift as you become reminded of a deep Truth you have always known but may have forgotten along the way—life is magic and anything is possible. You can order Renee’s to amazing books, wherever books are sold, visit her website and follow her on social media.  https://reneelinnell.com Renee on FB @renee.linnell Visit Sense of Soul at www.mysenseofsoul.com Do you want Ad Free episodes? Join our Sense of Soul Patreon, our community of seekers and lightworkers. As a Sense of Soul Patreon member, you can join our monthly Sacred circles, listen to Shanna and Mande’s personal mini series, get Sense of Soul merch and more. https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul Thanks to our Sponsors! KACHAVA:  www.kachava.com/senseofsoul ATHLETIC GREENS:  www.athleticgreens.com/senseofsoul  

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Check out our Patreon. Today we have with us author Renee Linnell. She is a former surf model, professional tango dancer, and a serial entrepreneur with an executive master's in business. Renee is the author of the book, The Burn Zone, a memoir of her experience as a cult survivor. But today she's joining us to talk about her new book, Still on Fire. Renee has quite the journey and we can't wait to hear how she turned her pain into purpose. Thanks so much for being with us, Renee. Hi. Me and Shanna were cracking up this morning because like our last three guests have all been from Colorado, which is where we're at.

Oh, really? Where are you in Colorado? I'm in Parker. Shanna's in Aurora. Looks like you go back and forth between here and Florida, correct? Yes. I'm in Florida right now. Fort Lauderdale. Awesome. My daughter just went to college at FAU. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah. She's in love.

Yay. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. I was super excited about you because I feel like you're my people. Like I'm very raw. I'm very vulnerable. I'm very authentic. And I just put all my shit out there

for the world to read and see. And I feel like me and you have that in common. I love that. I was read about, you know, whoever's interviewing me and I feel like you two are my people too. It's like, it's amazing to see everything kind of that you write about yourself or present about your, and someone else is doing the same thing. I was listening to part of your book this morning and I was like, this is how I would want to write a book. Cause people are always telling me I should write a book about like just my life and my near death experiences. I love everything about your cover, the colors you use, the audible piece of it.

It was great. It was good. Thank you. I look at your book title. The audible piece of it. It was great. It was good. Thank you. Thank you. I look at your book title. I want to sing. This girl is on fire. That's awesome.

It's so fun to go from, you know, totally so broken to like, this girl is on fire. Because it is like, yay. It's so fun now. I'm curious. What made you pick Colorado for your healing? I was there as a little kid in preschool. And then when my father passed away, when I was 15, my mom moved there full time. And so that's where I would well, when I was 17, when I went off to college, and that's where I would visit her and where I am, it's population 2000 up in Snowmass. And so when life just smashed the crap out of me, I just woke up one day and it

was like my soul knew that I had to move to someplace quiet and peaceful. And it showed me a vision of a home in Aspen Snowmass. And then I Googled and I actually found that home for sale. And I was there 18 days later. And I didn't think I'd stay so long. It's been nine and a half years. I'm an ocean girl, but I know why the universe has me there now because the vibration is so pure because there's so few people and we're so high up in the mountains and then Aspen is 15 minutes away. So then there's all that fun there. There was that word that you used that I've never heard. Soul sick. I really relate to that. I believe I was very soul sick. And I still sometimes battle with soul sickness. Can you tell us when did your soul start getting sick?

I think it's a funny that question actually almost made me want to cry. I think the second I incarnated because I think for those of us that are really sensitive, and hold a lot of light and are here to spread a lot of light. I think we come from a different realm, honestly. I think this realm is really dense for us and our priorities are really different, I think, than a lot of humanity. And so I think we get overwhelmed with feelings of like, why am I here? What's my purpose? It's so heavy. I'm so sad. And then you look out and you see like the people partying and they're all having such a good time. And we're like, oh, well, I've done all this work on myself. And I still go into these like deep periods of despair. And so what I learned going through everything I went through to become enlightened and ruining my life and taking myself to the brink of suicide and all of

that, I realized like we live in the land of dichotomy. So as much light and love and happiness and joy as we hold, we're going to hold the opposite in darkness and of dichotomy. So as much light and love and happiness and joy as we hold, we're going to hold the opposite in darkness and despair and pessimism. And so the higher we fly, the lower we'll drop. And that's not bipolar. It's the opposite. And so now when before I thought there was something wrong with me, that I felt that, and that it didn't seem like anyone else felt it. And now I just realized, you know, that's kind of the price I pay to be a light being. And when those moods come, if possible, I just really self-nurture.

Like, can I clear my schedule? Can I be under a blanket with a cup of tea? Can I watch movies that lift me up? You know, can I try to not interact with the world while I'm going through this state of mind? And it always passes like a storm. I feel like I lived most of my life like you just described. I don't have to consciously do that anymore. And I don't know when that shifted for me. And I was very sensitive. I don't know if

it's menopause, which it could be something has shifted for me. I think the older we get, if we're doing the work, I think as we become more and more authentic and we tune into our own needs, honor them and nurture them. I think it is much less painful to be in the world because we're able to, I think, distance ourselves from the nonsense that makes us soul sick, the social media or the having all the expensive things or looking a certain way and all that nonsense. And you go, wait, what brings me joy? And as we tune into more and more, what's important to me, what brings me true joy? I think life is a lot easier. That less detachment to like the pain of the world or others or even to your own stuff. Yeah. I really enjoyed your writing that you wrote about inviting

your pain to sit on the couch with you. I would definitely suggest our listeners go on and not only read your book, but your blogs that you write. That one really resonated with me because I did feel like you were nurturing your pain. Most people want to push it away. You invited it in, you sat down with it and you asked the pain questions. And I loved that. Thank you. I know for me, that's been a huge process of my healing as to when I feel sad or afraid or in pain or emotional pain to like, stop, stop distracting myself. Notice, okay, I'm really irritable or or I'm really sad, or I'm really afraid what is going on. And usually there's a child part of myself that needs to speak

up, you know, and she's always like, my needs aren't getting met, you're not listening to me, or, you know, you're obsessing about something in the future that, you know, may or may not come stuff like that. She's so wise. Yeah. So asking the pain, what it's trying to show me is really helpful. Can you talk a little bit about what that looks like for you? What life was like as a child? It's funny, because I thought my life was this dream life. I grew up on a boat with a twin brother and two parents. And, you know, they were in love with each other. And we lived in in the Bahamas and then we went out to Colorado and I was well educated. And then after being in the cult and having my life fall apart and the devastating relationship in New York and losing all that money and ending up in the New York tabloids and just everything falling apart.

I really looked at my childhood and was like, I was terribly abused. Like my mother didn't feed me. She tried to kill me multiple times. She smashed a glass sculpture in my face when I was less than two, causing me to go through like weeks of reconstructive facial surgery. And she tried to off me all the time. She always criticized me, making me incredibly insecure, struggling always with adult romantic relationships. And I had suppressed and blocked all of that. And then my father dying when I was 15 and leaving me with her was awful. And so I didn't realize how traumatic my childhood was until I really hit rock bottom. And then I was like, I don't have to just heal from the cult and being betrayed

and burning everything I owned and all of that nonsense. I have to heal all the way back from childhood. And if I'm going to stay on this planet in this body, I want to do it, you know, no matter how painful it is. And so I did. And it took years. I thought I would be moved to Colorado from New York and be healed in a year and write a book and go on with my life. And it took like five years. And I see it's been happening for generations, thousands of years or in all the systems. You know, you hear about someone getting wrapped up in a cult and we've had other people on before. And, you know, they're always very well educated. They're not like your typical what you would have, maybe that stereotype of like maybe a satanic cult. I think that that's kind of like what most people have in their mind as cult-like,

which is not the case. And it can happen to anybody. And it's happening to everybody. They just don't see it. Well, and I love that you just said that because when I was traveling to do the book tour for The Burn Zone, all the interviewers would say, well, how did you end up in a cult? How does that even happen? And I was kind of like, oh, I was just lost and searching and I needed parents and I needed a family and you know, womp womp for me. And then the more I did the interviews, I was like, wait a second, we are all brainwashed. We are constantly bombarded by messaging that tells us we're not okay. And so we're all walking around like, I need to look different. I need to have more money. I need to have a different car. I need

to have a different job. I need to have a better social media platform. I, you know, we're brainwashed continuously to believe our bodies can't heal themselves and we need pharmaceuticals or we can't survive in the world and succeed in the world if we don't have a good education and all of that. And I realized it's also like any toxic relationship too. I mean, we're so susceptible to messaging, because we want so badly to be loved and fit in. And we're taught as children that we have to change to be loved and fit in, you know, you're too loud, you're too rambunctious, you're too weird, you're too whatever it is. And if we don't fit in, and we're not accepted, we get abandoned, we get thrown out,

and we die. So we learn very quickly to blend in and be who the adults need us to be. And the other schoolmates need us to be, to be loved and accepted. And then unfortunately we carry this into adulthood and we betray ourselves. And then that betraying of ourselves to feel worthy and be loved and accepted, we can enter into whether it's a relationship or a job or a spiritual situation where we're taken advantage of just because we want to stay and have a tribe or community or partner. Wow. You just laid it out there. That is also true. And I started thinking about this abusive relationship I was in for like seven years. I was young, he was older. And I was like, why, why was I brainwashed

by him? And the first word that popped in my mind was love. Yes. You know, I love people. I love, I loved him. I loved life. I love, I just, I have a lot of love. And when I love, I love very hard. Me too. But the one thing I was missing was that self love and boundaries. Yeah. So that's what Shannon and I always talk about and wish was implemented into the school systems was teaching self love. Well, and unfortunately, self love is trained out of us again, as children, the second we're old enough to have boundaries, right to they said, call it the terrible twos, because we start to have boundaries. and we say no. And then what happens when we say no, most of our parents say bad girl, bad boy, you know,

you do what mommy and daddy say. And then you go to school and you try to say no, and it's bad girl, bad boy. So we don't get to have boundaries, right? We learn having boundaries makes us unlovable, makes us sit in the corner with a, you know, whatever they did to us as kids in school when you were bad. And then we are beings of love, all of us, we love to be loved, and we love to be loving. And so most of the bad situations we get into with other people is because we love too much, and we love them over ourselves. And I've learned with breakups, you know, it's like, oh, it's okay, honey, to still love him, but you have to love yourself more. Recently, I'll watch something that's total conspiracy. You know, I'm even warned that it is I know where it's at. You know, I know I'm on this website. I know that there's a

lot of conspiracy here. And what I think this is the same probably with finding yourself in quote unquote, cult, is that much of what you're a part of is what you believe in, in his good things. You know, there's a lot of truth there, these truths that align with you, but then all of a sudden they start adding, like I was watching this documentary and a lot of it was truth and they had me, I could tell, you know, I knew when it was happening, I was like, oh man, all this is true. I'm totally aligned. Then all of a sudden they're throwing in these really off the wall things that I'm like, no, that's not true. And now they're going deeper and deeper.

And so a person who's maybe not aware, you know, maybe vulnerable, I could see how it would easily happen. Well, and the fact that you're already invested. So, you know, when I did all these interviews, some guy on a morning show was like, so Renee, how, what made you decide to join a cult? And I'm like, well, nobody goes, I want to join a cult. That looks like an interesting life experience. Let me go get brainwashed and destroy my life. I was like, it's like any first date you go on a first date. And if somebody verbally abuses you, you get up and you leave the table. It's like a no brainer, but they start by making you feel loved and, you know, like you belong and cherished and seen. And then slowly, but surely over time,

they start to say, oh, I don't like this friend. I don't like the way they treat you. Maybe you shouldn't hang out with them. You know, maybe your family isn't the best and they take away your support system. And then they maybe suggest you don't do the activities you love that empower you. And so they slowly pull away the support system, but they're bombarding you with all the truth that you were talking about. So in my case, it was like she said in the East, people have these spiritual practices, but they live in poverty. And in the West, people have these great careers, but they're soul sick.

So I'm going to teach you to meditate in the morning, sharpen your mind, and then rock your career and use that as your spiritual practice. And you're going to bring the best of you to everything in your career. And you're going to make more money, get promoted, make more money, create a life where you can meditate better and give back to the world through philanthropy. And then the tasks she gave me were like, get a black belt in karate, become a computer programmer, go get an MBA from one of the hardest business schools in the country, and start a business that makes $10 million profit after tax. So I was like, sign me up. This woman's a rock star. I have no mother figure in my life. I mean, she's going to take me from professional dancer to computer programmer to, you know, having this great career. And so she love bombed me in the

beginning and then introduced the self-doubt, you know, you're not trying hard enough to become enlightened. You shouldn't hang out with those people. So yeah, like any toxic relationship. I recently have been seeing cults all over in different places. Like my daughter is rushing right now for college and her friends are all rushing right now and they were all prepping to rush for these sororities. They fricking rush hard. They rush these girls. They make them do

things that go against their soul, you know, their morals, their values. Some of these sororities are very cult-like. Well, and that's the, I remember having a female mentor of mine. She was talking about her children when they went off to school and she said, you know, peer pressure doesn't look like someone walking up and say, go snort a line of cocaine. Peer pressure is they just ask you to take one tiny step outside your comfort zone, one tiny step against the inner knowing of your heart. And then you do it to fit in. And then they ask for one more step, tiny step and tiny step by tiny step, you're walking away from what you know is right. But, but you have so much time invested and you've developed friendships and, and you want to fit in and you don't want to be outcast. We don't want to be outcast because our tribal roots tell us if

we are, we're going to die without the tribe. And so, and you see it out in the world right now, you know, like we know in our hearts, we don't want to hate people that look different than we do or have different beliefs. I mean, we know that, but yet we're constantly told, well, you have not only like, they're, they're, they're bad, they're scary. They're going to ruin your way of life if you, you know, allow them to continue. And so tiny step by tiny step, we find ourselves, you know, judging them or hating them or whatever, without even knowing them. And so it's insidious. And I would also say Renee, that most even churches or religions, you know, are very, very cold. Like I, there's this one, it was like, you couldn't do this, you had to do that. You had to go and stay with this person. If you were going to get married to like train as a wife. I mean, I just was like, oh my God, like in the name of God, let it be okay. Sometimes the people who are pointing the finger

at the people who are in a cult or, you know, found themselves in like your situation are in one as well. It's so true. It's so true. And after everything I went through, trying to become enlightened and, you know, ruining my life and my sanity and all that, I was like, you know, anytime we're being told to walk away from community and kindness and acceptance and compassion and understanding and patience, we're walking in the wrong direction. So, you know, and I think the cult thing is any leader who we feel like we have to look up to them for safety, you know, like this idea that our bodies can't heal themselves. Okay.

So we have to go to big pharma for safety, right. Or that we can't trust the inner knowing of our heart about how to be in the world. So we have to turn to the media for safety so they can tell us, right. Or religion. We can't connect with source on our own. So we have to turn to the minister or whomever for safety, for connection. So it takes a lot of critical thinking to start analyzing all the paradigms we've been handed and where we're all brainwashed.

Yeah. And you lived a life that was, a lot of it was around your looks. Like you were a model. You were also a dancer. So you always had to look good. Did that wear on you? Oh, it's terrible. It's terrible. And my mother was a beautiful woman who was obsessed with her own looks. And even to this day, you know, after everything I've been through and all the work I've done and all the healing and all that I write about, you know, like just to celebrate our

bodies because they're miraculous and we chose them before we incarnated and they're perfect. You know, I find in the back of my head constantly, you're not pretty enough. You're too old. You have wrinkles, you know, no man will find you attractive. You might as well give up right now. And it's just this constant chatter. I mean, it's absurd. Yeah. I have a lot of respect for you putting out there that you were engaged in relationships with men that were like half your age. You know, because I mean, I'm 46, I think. And, you know, there's a lot of women that I know my age that are dating like 25 year old that are like the age of my son. And at first I want to judge them. And then part of me is like, who are you to judge anyone? First of all, and second of all, you know, who says that age

means anything. My parents are 11 years apart. They've been married for 50 plus years, but why did you choose to throw that out there? Because there is this theme that I saw that you have been in a lot of relationships with men that were abusive and that play a big part in that soul sickness. I think, well, again, being a sensitive being, there's this feeling I think that we all have, like, I don't belong. I don't fit here. Nobody truly understands me. Nobody truly gets me. And there's this longing, I think, for a partner that will truly see us and hear us and get us and understand us. A similar soul, right? This whole soulmate thing. I've finally learned we're longing for our connection to the divine and for our connection to self really. But life is fun with, you know, whatever gender partner you're attracted to. It's

fun to have that romance and that excitement. And for me, it's men. And so I think I was always kind of, you know, we get again, brainwashed by this idea of a soulmate and one particular person. So every single man that entered my life, I'm like, Ooh, he's my soulmate, you know, maybe he is. And then they weren't, you know, it was disastrous, because I didn't know who I was. So I was choosing people who didn't know who they were. And then eventually, I went, Okay, I've been broken enough, I'm ready for a man my age, age appropriate, a divine match, a good partner, someone who will last, nobody was showing up. It was another whole year all alone, touch deprived, sex deprived, love deprived, companionship deprived. So I finally said, okay, universe, I'm going to say yes to the next kind sparkly man that's attracted to me that crosses my path that I'm attracted to.

Next day, 26 year old butcher from Whole Foods, you know, so it was like, okay, I'm a yes, I promised myself I'm a yes. The next one after that, again, a long stretch of being alone and finally, okay, universe, I'm a yes, a 33 year old surfer, you know, so it's like, I just want the universe knows what she's doing. You know, I have in my mind, a man who's financially stable, who's my age, and blah, blah, blah, the whole checklist. And she keeps sending me these puppy dog, adorable young men who are healing me, basically healing me. And it sounds like they're playful and you know, they're teaching you to play and that you enjoy life. And I will tell you these younger generations, like my son's friends, they're, they're all very open. They're all very open-minded. Shannon. I talk about this all the time. They're a really cool generation.

They're not so surface. Like you can get into some really great, deep conversations with them. I love where their minds go. They think outside of the box. They don't just dive into the world's conditions and bullshit and they're really fun. And I'm noticing they're really heart-centered too

and they're great lovers. I mean, back when I was in my 20 know, it was like the jackhammer into the bed and the totally disconnected sex. So they just want to get in these guys. Like I have to say they are, I don't know who's teaching. I don't know if there's YouTube videos on this now or what, but I am like every single one has been a great lover. You're right. Back in the day when I was growing up, I didn't even know that women could be pleased. It was never talked about. I just kind of assumed that a woman was there for the man to, and that was it.

I never knew that I was to be loved in this situation. And that's what my mother taught me. She literally said to me, Renee, women have sex to please men. That's the only reason. Yeah. Same, which is so sad. We're hoping that the girls in the next generations are not feeling that way since now we're aware of that and hopefully can break that because I mean, what self-worth do you have? Like feeling like you

are just someone that has to please people. And feeling that men will only like us if we, I mean, that was my thing too. They're not going to like me if I don't sleep with them. Believe it or not. We had somebody on our podcast who was electrocuted. Oh, wow. Yeah. Talked to now two people. So you were actually electrocuted. Yeah. For the listeners, my first memoir is Burn Zone and it's about, it's my cult survival story. And then the book that's just coming out now is still on fire. And that's about magic miracles, travel and romance, and the wild ride that life can be when you truly just say yes to it. So I was so afraid after being so broken, I couldn't even go to the grocery store or the post office. In fact, I couldn't even eat. And then as I started to build the pieces of my life

back, I remembered who I was before the cult. And she just was this wild child who was not buying into any of the paradigms that she was learning in church or school or from the adults and wanted to go out in the world and just experience life. And so Still on Fire is about the wild ride of doing that. And that story is that I went to the Maldives by myself on a surf trip to meet friends, but they backed out. And after 48 hours of traveling, I was exhausted. And the place that I was staying was like a dump. And I just started crying and wanted to go home. And I thought, okay, we have to get some sleep. So go stand under the pipe sticking out of the wall and shower, and then just try to sleep on this disgusting weird bed.

And I was standing naked in a pool of like water that had been dripping off of me because it was so hot. I didn't towel dry off all the way. And I went to put my hand under the lamp to find the switch to turn it off. And the lamp like sucked my hand onto it. And I was being just jolted with electricity through my whole body. And I knew I was going to die. Like I knew I was going to pass out and crack my head open on that tile. And so I positioned myself and it all happened instantly,

but positioned myself so that I would fall on the bed. And I used my left hand to rip the lamp out of my right hand. And I woke up to like a cockroach crawling on my head, my face, and I was sobbing and I couldn't believe I was still alive and I was going to leave in the morning. And then I woke up in the morning and it was the best left point prank I'd ever seen in my life right outside my window. And I served my butt off for two weeks and met amazing people and had a great time. Oh, wow. You know what? I think I was more grossed out about the cockroach going across your face

than I was you getting electrocuted. I was wondering if you're still on fire from being electrocuted. The reason the book's called Still on Fire is because the opening scene is that situation with the 24-year-old tennis player who sat next to me on the plane, the last stop of my book tour for the burn zone. And I was texting my girlfriends about it, you know, like, can I go out with him? He's so young, I shouldn't go out with him. And they were like, girl, you're still on fire. Yes,

you're going out with him. Oh my gosh, I love it. You know, they're both extremely raw and vulnerable. Have you always been like that? Or was that something that came once you worked on, you know, self-love and self-trust? I was always like that before the cult. And then in the cult, I call it kind of spiritual narcissism, like people in the spiritual path. And this was me where you think you're like, oh, I'm like so pure and I can't be around people because they're going to lower my vibration, or they're going to harm me in some way energetically. And they're not on a path, and they're not awake, and they're just asleep. And, and I was also taught to not reveal anything about myself, they had a term for it, but they said it was energetically cleaner. And so I would meet people

and literally not share anything, just ask about them, which I realized we can't connect with each other when we're not vulnerable and honest and open. I mean, we just can't. And so it was a horrible way to go through life. So big part of my healing was going back to just being open and honest and authentic and raw and vulnerable. And, and I love it so much more. I've always been super attracted to Jenny McCarthy because she's just raw as shit. I freaking love it. Like I take rawness to some pretty inappropriate places. Sometimes like I have no shame talking about the black nipple hair that I found in the shower in the morning.

Like I have no shame in talking about all these weird things happening to my body in my forties. Like I'm just, I just put it all out there. I mean, sometimes I find that before I know it, me and my other friends in our forties are all like, Oh my God, yes, that's happening to me too. And then we ended up talking about how this shift in our age is, it just opens a whole new conversation. Yeah. I just, I love rawness and you're right. I believe it's what creates connection. It's so important now, maybe that we don't have to talk about our bodies, but again, I think that like, even today talking about the sex piece, like it needs to be talked about more. Like even with my daughter, I sat her

down and I explained to her, you know, you can be pleased. That's a hard conversation to have with your daughter when you're hoping that you just, she's a virgin for her whole life, but, but these conversations need to be had, you know? Well, and you know, we're in these bodies to experience what it feels like to be in a body, right? It's supposed to be pleasurable. It's not supposed to be, you know, you think of how much pain we all have in our body, because, oh, it doesn't look right. And oh, it doesn't do this. No, it doesn't do that. And other people's bodies do that or look like this or, and it's like, no, this is the body, I think we designed it before we incarnated to do what we came here to do. And we're supposed to feel pleasure and joy in it.

And then the raw pieces like that's the I realized that's the in it. And then the raw pieces, like that's the, I realized that's the enlightened version of us is the rawest, most authentic version. There's 8 billion people and there's only one of us, right? So it's literally source animating the expression of a unique personality. The more authentic and raw we can be, I think the more authentic and raw we can be, I think the more of a divine expression we are versus feeling like we can't say this and we can't do that. And we can't wear this and we can't, you know, that's, that's hell. That was hell when I was living like that. You've had to live in your body your whole life. Like as a dancer, you had to be very present with every muscle, every movement. And then same, I'm assuming with surfing, I tried surfing. Oh my

God. It was, I was so bad. I was so bad. I had like an hour left with this instructor and I'm like, Nope, I'm done. I just want to go lay out. But you've always had to be very present in your body. I'm sure at times that was like freeing, you know, I, I don't know what it's like to be like out on that big water, you know, on the ocean, but I feel like I was never in my body as a child or as a teen. This is something you've always had to do. Do you think that benefited you? I do.

First, I want to say, I think most people aren't in their bodies as a child and a teen, because I think the emotions are so intense, right? And a lot of times we were told, we can't, you have a temper tantrum to move the emotion through. Children are masters at processing emotion, but you get, so many of us get told, that right now shut it down right now no more tears right and so then we flee our body actually so we don't have to deal with that intense emotion and that's why as adults so many people turn to addiction of whatever distraction if we're in the body we have to feel all the stuff we suppressed and repressed since childhood which is not that bad once you just sit and do it and And when I was in New York and I,

I would be terrified to go home because I was so broken because I knew what was going to happen and go, honey, you're going to go home. You're going to lie on the floor in a fetal position and you're going to cry your guts out and you're just going to do it. You have to do it. And then you're going to get up and you're going to try to eat. But so I think a lot of people aren't in their bodies because it's too scary to feel what you have to feel. And I do think that I was very lucky to be a dancer and a surfer and somebody who had to be in my body. I couldn't flee it as women when we're in our bodies and we love our bodies, regardless of size, shape, color, whatever age, it's attractive to people because it's that life force energy, a hundred percent lighting up the

body. And so they're attracted to the light coming through the form. It's fun to see, you know, and it's empowering. But I totally agree with that. And, you know, my 10 year old just did what you just said yesterday. She said something to me and I corrected her. She starts crying. I said, what are you crying about? I think she thought I was mad at her. I'm like, I'm not mad at you. What are you talking about? And she was like, I'll just stop crying.

I'll just stop crying. And I was like, well, you don't have to stop crying. I just wanted to make sure that, you know, you knew that I wasn't saying anything to make you feel bad about what you said. But it was interesting because it was her own narrative that she was telling herself. And then following that, she started crying and then was trying to shut it down. Well, and just piggybacking on that is we're brainwashed when we're kids that if you have the right answer, you're the star, right? We even got gold stars for having the right answer,

right? So then without realizing it, we always want to be right. Always want to be right. I know we always want to know we know the answer, right? And so we tie our self worth to having all the answers and always being right. And so you know, your sweet daughter, it's just already being conditioned if she's wrong, and needs to be corrected, she's somehow less worthy. You know, we, we turn into a know it all adults. I was completely blown away over the fact that your father wanted to name you Renee, when that was your sister's name who passed away. When you found that out, how did that feel to you? So just for the listeners, the quick story is that they tried to have children for 10 years.

They couldn't, then they finally got pregnant with a female, a baby girl, and they were intent on naming her Renee, and she was a stillbirth. And so then everybody was devastated. And my mother actually, who's not spiritual, but she was super Catholic. She said she was filled with all this peace that she knew that God would not take her baby away without bringing something even better. And then she got pregnant with twins. And so they knew what they wanted to name my brother, but they were struggling for the right name for me. And my father was really attached to the name Renee. And my mother kept saying, but we already had a Renee because they were naming the other baby Renee.

We already had a Renee. We can naming the other baby Renee. We already had a Renee. We can't name her Renee. And my father looked up what Renee meant and it meant reborn. And as soon as I heard that story, I knew I was that first soul coming in. And the second I touched this realm, I was in so much psychic pain from how much psychic pain there is here that I left. And I went back to get a companion. And I said, I'm coming right back in.

And I told my mother through a transmission that everything's going to be okay. You didn't lose Renee. She's coming back and she's bringing a friend. I could not believe that that was the meaning of Renee. What an abuse. Yeah. And so your brother, Gary, when you were in that cult, you kind of pushed a lot of your family away. Did you guys rekindle? Did he understand what had happened to you? Are you guys close today? Well, he is my only living family and

was in when I was in the cult. He's so great. We're polar opposites. I mean, as opposite as two people could possibly get. And when I was pushing everyone away, he said, he's so sweet. He goes, I don't care how weird you get. I don't care what you're doing. Just don't shove me out of your life. You always have to leave the connection open. He's like, I won't call you. I won't bug you, but I need to be able to find you. And then when it was all over and I finally started telling people the story about being in a cult, he's like, well, I knew you were in a cult. Everyone knew you were in a cult. You were the only one that didn't know you were in a cult. Wow. And he's just like, he's like, I love you. You're always the weird. I mean, I've always been the weird kid. So yeah, it sounds like you guys have a great relationship.

I'm so glad you have him because I cannot imagine the pain of losing both of your parents at such a young age. I'm so sorry that was the case for you. Jeez. Thank you. It was hard. And but it was clearly part of my soul journey. Yeah.

If you don't mind me asking, how did your father pass away? My father got diagnosed with leukemia and my mother hid it from me, hid it from us. And when I was about 13 and he died on Thanksgiving day of a heart attack when I was 15 and she hid that from us too. She tried. And then when I was 28, she went missing and she had drowned in a bathtub and in a mirror suites hotel. I mean, it's so crazy.

How does that happen? I don't know. Were your parents not together or they were? Well, they were together until my father died when I was 15. And then my mother basically died with them. She turned to alcohol and prescription pills and she just kind of was gone. Our culture is so obsessed. I think the number one, you know, belief that causes so much pain to humans is that when we die, when our body dies, life is over, instead of that we're eternal beings of light. And so there's this obsession with like quantity of life instead of quality. I mean, people are so afraid to die that they don't really live. And, you know, imagine if the second we were old enough to learn,

we were taught, like Earth is a school and our we were old enough to learn, we were taught like earth is a school and our bodies don't last forever. And we do transition out of them when we've graduated the school. But, you know, we still have access to each other and in angel form or non-physical or whatever you want to tell children. And so even though it's sad that you can't touch your loved one and hug them, it's such a beautiful thing to celebrate this transition of the soul onto the next level. You know, imagine if we were taught that from children.

My 10 year old, she came into my life at the same time where I lost all the most important people. So it was like she knew grief from the very beginning and knew me as grieving from, you know, from when she was born. And so she has a very unique understanding of death because of that. So we've had to tell her that so many times. In fact, she always reminds me, you know, in many ways, you know, when I've had experiences with death, when she became a little bit older and could talk about it and would say you know just know that they'll always be with you but she was so wise to it that's all she heard she knew nothing different so much that when she was like five and I think it was when her great grandma died someone that was close to her she had said to me I'm gonna miss you when you go

because she just thought just dropping like like flies. So how much time I have left with you. That's so wise. She's very wise. What does life look like for you today? It's funny. One of the testimonials blurbs on the back of still on fire is a madcap free flowing adventure. She wrote about the book. And it's like, I was just going to say that life looks like a madcap free flowing adventure. I've emptied out of my life. When I was so broken, I learned to empty out everything that I mean, everything was emptied out. And then I only put in the most important pieces, let's just say, that truly bring me joy. And so I do have quite a bit of free time, except for when I'm launching a new book, and lots of exercise and time in nature,

but really allowing the universe to lead me every day. You know, I'll have my plan for the day. I want to get all of this done, but you know, and then I realized, okay, let's see what the universe has in store for me. I wanted to ask you, do you like bald guys or what? I have such a thing for bald guys. And I don don't know what it is and I wonder well and I wonder if we're remembering where we came from originally you know maybe didn't have hair I don't know well wouldn't it be wonderful if men who are losing their hair heard us saying this that we're super attracted to bald men I'm sure so many of them are like, what am I going to do? I have no, right. I'm never going to shave it off. Yeah. Right here. Two of them. Right. So

tell us about your apparel company. Do you still have that? No. Bald guys rock. Bald guys rock. I was seeing this really handsome bald man. And I realized what made him so sexy to me was how confident he was in just shaving his head because he was losing his hair and just rocking the bald head. And I thought, you know, kind of what I just said, you know, I wish men really knew that we find that attractive. The baldest. So that tagline was bald is sexy.

Know it, own it, wear it. And then I had bald babes rock for women who were losing their because when you just embrace basically what life is throwing at you, you know, losing your hair, just embrace it and rock it. That it was the confidence that's so sexy. So I started that company and it did well. And then I broke up with the bald guy. And I remember like, I was using my spare bedroom as my storage. And I walked into that room and I was like, I have $30,000 worth of shirts. Let's say bald guys rock. I went to a charity. I think it was called I'm too young for this. And it was young people going through cancer, losing their hair. I went to the event and I brought all of the stuff and they were going to sell it and give me a percentage. And I said, you know what, just keep the whole inventory. You just have it. I donated it. They loved it.

Oh, that's so sweet. So is there going to be another book? I mean, what comes after this? Twin Flames. It's the third book. It's already coming through me. It wants to be born into the world. And so it is. So it's a trilogy, this whole burn zone still on fire, twin flames. Renee, you're a wonderful author. You're a wonderful writer, but you are also a beautiful speaker. Like you're so, yeah, you're really good at both. Thank you so much. Thank you. It's so encouraging to hear.

I love that you didn't turn your back on spirituality because a lot of people that have been involved in occult might walk away and be like, screw all of that. Right. And I kept thinking about how hard it must have been for you to have that self-trust after being in a situation like that. Did you for a while push it aside or did you just take the good and leave behind the bad? Well, I think the thing that made me so, so utterly broken, so much despair was that I was no longer trusting myself. I didn't think I could, you know, because I think that's what happens when we get paradigm shattered.

You know, I think we go, well, I don't know who to trust. And I don't trust myself either, because I made these decisions and got myself in this situation. And then I realized that I wasn't listening to my inner guidance. I mean, they just, and that's what talks, that's what abusers do, right? They train you away from your inner guidance. And even like these other institutions we were talking about, you know, with church and big pharma and the media and all of that, they train you, listen to me, don't listen to yourself, don't listen to your body. Actually,

when I was so broken too, I just had an epiphany and I was like, wait a second, wait a second. Everything I did was to become enlightened because I believe in our creator. I believe in source. I believe in, you know, God, goddess, whatever one he is. And if I truly, truly believe, and this is where my faith was tested. If I truly, truly believe, then that means I'm completely protected through all of this. And my mantra became, everything will turn out better than I can possibly imagine. I don't know how, but I know it will. And that was when I actually had to truly start to walk my talk. If I believe in our creator, I believe in divine plan. I believe we're constantly protected then even in the depths of my despair and in my whole life being destroyed,

there's a perfection. And that's when I rose like a Phoenix, like a spiritual warrior. And I realized I love meditating, that all that peace I experienced had nothing to do with my guru. It had to do with me quieting the mind chatter and connecting to source. So I became more spiritual. And then I love the Buddhist practices of just the mind control and the kindness and compassion and gentleness and non-harm. Yeah. Maybe even just for listeners to find themselves in your situation ever one day, and they want to get out. Cause I think that getting out seems to be a hard thing to do. I mean, I was watching that one Netflix documentary on the Scientology. It was so hard to get out. People are stuck. Are you

kidding me? We're in a free country. So how did you get out? Because sometimes it's stuck and imprisoned by actual people keeping you there, but sometimes it's just your own mind. I honestly think it's 90% your own mind. And my answer to that is grace because nobody could have pulled me out in the more. And I see this with other people stuck, you know, in, in cultish scenarios, almost the more information you show them that what they're believing is false causes them to cling even stronger to their belief system and to push you away even further because they have so much time and energy invested and their sense of self, their identity. So for me, it was like, oh my gosh, having something broken and weird was better than having nothing. And if I allow myself to realize I've been in a cult and

my whole world falls apart. And so for me, it was grace. I just woke up one day. I actually had a near-death experience. I write about it in the burn zone. And after that near-death experience, I suddenly had clarity. But I see it with my friends in toxic relationships too. The more you try to tell them that it's a bad relationship, the more they push you away. And they have to stay in it until they one day have that

aha. And I think it's soul contracts, right? We stay until our soul has learned what the soul has to learn. And then we suddenly, it's like the blinders get taken off by the universe and we see clearly and we're like, what the heck was I doing? Yeah. I even felt that way when I realized I was never taught to experience anything for myself, just to absolutely have faith with no thought of my own. And it scares me when I think that I lived my whole life that way. And like you said, the more people would have told me opposite, the more I did grasp on to that faith. I was living in fear. Well, and then you don't know who to trust because you trust so blindly. And again,

I think we're all honestly indoctrinated from childhood with school and religion and all of it. And we're so innocent and we trust so much that we don't think to question everything we've been taught usually until life completely explodes. And then we start questioning all of it, but you're definitely not the only one that's felt that way, or that is not trusting their own inner guidance. They're just deferring to what the messaging they're bombarded with. Why did I think I was the only one though at the time? Yeah, which is why we did our podcast though, to let people know that they weren't alone, that, you know, we're going through this and many people are, and just the response to our podcast just shows you how many people are going through that. And that's why I wrote my books, because it was like, I'm going through this,

but I know so many other people are too. And that's the same response. Like, oh, I thought I was the only one. This book is awesome. Thank you for writing this. And thank you for being vulnerable and putting yourself out there and sharing your story. My pleasure. Thank you so much for inviting me on your podcast and for being my people. I love on your website. It has like the mountains and it has the surf and has that Colorado sunset in the back. It's so pretty. And you even did Bronco colors.

I will have to be bad. I was really feeling the orange. Yeah. And by the way, you have badass style. Like you have some, like your cool hats and your leather boots. And I was like, Oh, I want that tank top. Oh, I want that outfit. Thank you. It's so funny because those pictures, I did this goddess photo shoot when I was trying to find myself after, you know, trying to be sexy and feminine and self-confident again. And I bought these dresses and they did my hair

all curl, you know, the makeup. And I took a bunch of pictures and dresses. And then I was just like, it doesn't feel like me. Like I want some photos with me, like in the leather pants with the messy hair and you know, like the boots. And then I was like, this is me, you know, this is my goddess version. It's this. I could feel it like your whole page just has this awesome vibe. And so do you. And so does your Instagram. Yeah. So tell our listeners where they can get your book and shout out like your social media. My book, you can get on anywhere that you like to buy books. So any online platform, Indie bound, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or your local store, we'll order it both books. my Instagram is renee.lanelle. I'm also on

Facebook, but I'm really bad at Facebook. So Instagram is the best and my website, renee.lanelle.com. And now it's time for break that shit down. Oh, it's gonna make me cry. I want to say I love you. I love all of you. And we are magnificent beings of light. We are not beings of disease. We are in these bodies for a very short time. We're supposed to live in joy and have fun and do what calls to our heart and have wild adventures and make huge mistakes and just love each other and love ourselves. And it starts with looking in the mirror and saying, I love you and ignoring that voice that says anything besides you're magnificent.

Thank you so much. That was beautiful and so true and needed. That was a great break that shit down that we're supposed to make big mistakes. That's huge, right? Yeah, I love that you added that because you're right. We need to give ourself that grace that you gave yourself and that we're given every day. It's so much fun. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear,

don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.