Sense of Soul - Death Doula Honoring Your Last Breath

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Today on Sense of Soul is Donna V-Smith, she is a seasoned traveler and has worked across a diverse range of fields, including IT, healthcare, holistic practices, food, and security.  However, one of the most profound chapters in her life was when she trained as a Death Doula through INELDA and volunteered with hospice patients. This experience shaped her understanding of the power of support during times of loss and grief. Donna shares her personal insights in the hope of bringing comfort to others, offering reassurance that no one has to navigate these difficult moments alone. Her story is just one of many beautiful experiences in the world of Death Doulas, and she encourages anyone interested in learning more or seeking grief support to reach out to INELDA, a valuable resource. Donna is deeply grateful to Shanna for giving her the opportunity to share this important work with listeners. Contact and follow Donna at @peaceful_empath https://inelda.org www.senseofsoulpodcast.com

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world, sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of Soul Patreon member, where you will get ad-free episodes, monthly circles, and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken.

Hey listeners, I wanted to share that I appreciate you listening. It gives me great joy to share amazing souls with you. Like my last week's guest, Michael Bloomberg, who not only stuck with me and Sense of Soul all of these years, but has become my friend. And to have them as a guest to share their light makes me so happy. And today I have another one of those beautiful souls, a listener who became a dear friend of mine and has become a part of my journey, Donna Smith. She's a seasoned traveler and has worked across a diverse range of fields, including IT, healthcare, holistic practices, food, and security. However, one of the most profound chapters in her life was when she trained to be a death doula and volunteered with hospice patients.

This experience shaped her understanding of the power of support during times of loss and grief. The Power of Support During Times of Loss and Grief. Today, Donna is sharing her personal insights in hopes to bring comfort to others, offering reassurance that no one should have to navigate these difficult moments alone. Please welcome Donna Smith. Hello. Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm great. Are you excited? I am. This is a little surreal.

Yeah. Very, very nice of you. Thank you so much, Donna, for joining me. Oh my gosh. Our journey has just intertwined with each other. But just to start, I wanted to talk about how we met. That is a fabulous question to start out with. I was in the process of transitioning to a new role in my life. And so basically, I left the government world behind, in which I did database work, and it was time to start something new. And I went the holistic route. So in that process, I just happened to put on the podcast and you were the first podcast that came up for holistic healing because that's what I was interested in. And I was like, oh, this sounds really interesting. It was you and Mandy at the time that was probably beginning of 2021 and i thought oh this is absolutely

fascinating so um ever since then just been listening non-stop been an inspiration well you always stick out to me as someone who through my sofia journey was one of the first people who kind of experienced that with me learning about the goddess Bridget around that time. It was like that week that I was having all of this major synchronicity around goddess Bridget. Mandy and I, I think we both had a soul chat with you. Yes. Yes. I was in the process of making the next step into opening a business, and I wanted to directly have this contact session. Y'all were so nice. You allowed that connection. And we had synchronicities that day, which was really fascinating. You pulled a card, and it was the Bridget card, right? And then I just happened

to have a shirt that matched the card and my hair was red, just like your tarot card. So it was great synchronicity. Yeah. And I had just gotten that deck and I had never really used it. And so I was looking for opportunities to use it. And so I had all this synchronicity around Bridget. And then I'm like, oh, let me get this deck that I've never used. Right. And so, I mean, the cards were still sticky and you know how they're like brand new and hard to shuffle. And I didn't even know Bridget was in there. I had no idea really who she even was at that time. And so it was just part of that. And so you're now stamped on the sub-getter me.

I love the divine feminine. So that was the moment where I think I really aligned with that. It was a great, powerful moment for you and for me. Yeah, it was definitely. And it's so funny because it's one of those things for you and for me. Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely, you know, and it's so funny because it's one of those things where you don't even know that it was, I didn't know it was a part of anything bigger at the time. Right. I was, it was just baby steps at that time. And then you and I worked together.

Yes. Your, your grow program, I loved it. I did. It was seven weeks of growth and exploration. And it was layered with the chakras aligning those and based on age, you know, zero to seven was your root chakra and on up every seven years. So it was a lot of learning lessons, a lot of reflections. So I was so glad to have that opportunity. Yeah. And so we were able to get to know each other very well. And it's really funny. Do you want to know? On my phone, I swear to God, it just came up yesterday. I never took you out of my reminders. So every time I think it's five o'clock, it'll say Donna grow. And I've met. Yeah. So every single week at that time, I see you and I think of you. I love that. I love that. That's so neat. That's like sending me like all this

beautiful energy around me to support me. I think that's amazing. Isn't that hilarious? That is so funny. Usually I lose things on my calendar and usually I'm like, I know I put it in my calendar. Where is it? And then disappears. You have the opposite problem, but hey, we're connected. Well, when I think about you, I think about how you're a seeker like me. You are open to receive the next step of your journey. And you're not seeking in an unhealthy way either. I think I do sometimes. But you're also a mother. You and I have had many conversations about our children. And I think about that about you. When I think of you, I think of your loving mother. Thank you. It's funny that you mentioned that because I had a coworker back like 15 years ago when I did work for the government and she

would call me Mama Donna because I was always like, Hey, did you try this? And I was very protective. And she just kind of loved that about me. Now, at first, I was like, hmm. And she said, no, that's a compliment. I said, okay. Yes, being a mother is the best. I can't imagine life without my children. Well, you're also super smart. And you're always willing to learn something new, which I love because I do too. I mean, you have an abundance of knowledge. You know a lot about astrology. You're very holistic. When did you start adding all of these amazing nuggets to your spiritual toolbox, I'll call it? Thank you for that compliment. And I just think you're amazing because you've added so much more than I have, but I've taken little baby steps along the way. I started out with energy healing with Reiki back in 2021. I was receiving it

from various practitioners and that actually was the starting point, the wake up call to say, Hey, it's time to move forward. You've been holding yourself back. So I said, I'm going to jump all in. So it was a big dynamic change for my family because I went from working full time to jumping in and learning what I need to learn for being a practitioner and for a business. I loved the fact that I was healing myself and I was healing my family. And then, of course, you know, you have practice, you heal your friends, and then eventually you start your business every year. It just takes some time to get those gifts in place and hear what you need to hear. And then when we moved from Virginia Beach to North Carolina, I thought I was in prayer. And I said, I definitely

love the energy healing, but do I need to expand? And so I meditated on it and I heard death. And I thought, well, that's interesting. So I proceeded to say what direction, there's many directions I could go. I could go to a funeral home. And the more I looked up ideas, I found death doula. And by coincidence, my daughter had called me probably the same week and said, Mom, my friend mentioned death doula. Okay, that's a great synchronicity. So it kind of evolved that way from healing myself to being in prayer and meditation to hearing the calling of being a death doula. And then I just checked out online for like who offered that training. And I came

across Enelda and their international end of life doula association. So that's where I got my training back in 2022. Wow. And you also, like I was saying, with astrology, and you recently were working for a holistic doctor. Yes, I actually continued to work for a functional doctor. And so I'm learning so much relating to our body because I have personal training, also a personal training cert. But that in addition to learning how the body maps muscle memory to a specific organ. Yeah, that's really adding to my wealth of knowledge. So I'm so fortunate to have that education, you know, for free. Yeah, you do a lot. I've known the job.

You have so much under your belt now. Yeah, so it definitely has been very helpful to learn about myself and maybe to pass on information to people as well. Also about the frequency-specific microcurrent. That's another thing that she offers. So check that out because that's a great technology for healing that energy. That's amazing. And you got to see this hands-on.

And I know you were so excited about this stuff. Correct. Like you wouldn't believe. Yeah. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. I'm always finding something else and just getting really excited because people are being healed by just a little bit of self-care here and there. And so it's minor tweaks and we can really be feeling a lot better from these holistic modalities. Yeah. It's limitless. And it's also very empowering to know that there's other options than just being on a prescription for the

rest of your life. But Donna, you grew up just like me. I mean, you grew up with a Catholic faith. Yes, I did. Even my husband converted for me. And then I was like, what do I want to do? He's like, okay. And I didn't ask. So I'd like to just say, I didn't ask him to convert. I said, you can follow whatever faith. I am definitely all about supporting people in the group, whatever religion I'm all about, or spirituality, if you don't believe in the group, whatever religion I'm all about, you know, or spirituality, if you don't want, if you don't believe in the religion thing, I am all about supporting people just in their growth. So they feel the positive changes happening in their life and they're moving forward all the time, little steps. I did have a lot of questions and I do feel like

the universe or God, whoever you want to to mention they want you to be inquisitive They want you to ask why and not just settle for what people say So and there is a divinity within us and we can feel it in our body when something does not fit And it's usually nagging, you know, you'll hear that. So I definitely believe that everybody has their own journey. Everybody should have their freedom to investigate. You know, this is definitely all about our journey, just how can we heal and how can we grow and how can we keep moving forward? So some of the things that are kind of left out of Christianity that maybe that you might believe in now, like past lives and the afterlife. I know growing up, I mean, I really did.

I feared that if I didn't do well, then I was going to go to hell. I've completely properly transformed from those notions. Like I said, I would never push my opinion on anybody, but I do feel like there are past lives that we grow, that there are karma links, there's soul groups. I do believe in that we are all connected and that anything we do, good or bad and different, it affects everybody, affects us and affects everybody. There were a lot of books out there that I read to help me understand more about reincarnation. And I embrace that. I think it's amazing to have the opportunity to come back as somebody different and to have a different life

and have a different viewpoint, different filters, embrace all of that. You know, back in 2016, I think it was then, Pope Francis had said that there was no hell. But you know, it seems like as the world evolves, the church is kind of seeing that they need to evolve as well. You know, one of the things with my dad, it was about three days after he had died. I had like this experience with him when I woke up that morning. And he told me that he had to go to work, that he was going to be working. And in my brain, you know, right away, I was like, oh, dude, he's stuck in purgatory or something. So come All Saints Day, I think. But it's the

day to pray for your ancestors who might be in purgatory, who are stuck in there. And so I did. I was praying that my dad would be released out of this purgatory. I mean, this is only like eight years ago. I mean, it's something that I was still like, JIC, right? Just in case. Yes. When my dad died, it was very important for him to make that confession to a priest. And he wasn't like a practicing Catholic for years. I mean, he wasn't going to church all the time and confessing and all the good stuff.

But in that moment of death, when he was faced with it, he felt like he needed to do those things just in case. Yes. Yes. And I've been there, too. And like in my 20s, my husband was stationed in Germany. So I like every once in a while, they only had one church. So basically, they rotated Protestant with Catholic service. I mean, there's limited resources when you're over on the military base. And so like, if you missed your

Catholic service for whatever reason, then you know, okay, what do you do? So go to a Protestant service. So I was always a little bit more open. I think my mom always wanted me to stick with my faith, but I think she was also realistic most of the time and knew that I would need to keep searching because in our heart, we have to, you have to listen to yourself. You have to question things to grow. You know, sometimes people go back You have to question things to grow. Sometimes people go back to their faith. They question it. They do all the soul searching and they go back and say, this actually is right for me. So I actually enjoy some things that are tradition and rituals of the Catholic service. I think that there's some beauty behind it, but there are some thoughts

about guilt and confession and other thoughts and practices they have that I might not align to as much, but I still honor Catholic as Catholic. I honor what they do for people. But at the end of the day, you have to do what's right for you. And like you said, the just in case does sometimes slip in, but I think I've become stronger in my wisdom. I do believe in St. Michael and like you do, we do have some things that we really believe in and we're diehards in. So yes. Yeah. Well, what I found was, though that wasn't what my dad needed to move on he was confessing for a long time girl i was like geez he's been in there an hour like you know he knows he's dying

like doesn't even hang out with us but he was really hanging on a long time like it was a very long night and you know they just kept on giving him more morphine and morphine you know and actually at one point he said you know to let him give me so much because I'm going to go quicker. Yes. And, ooh, that's hard to say. I'm sorry. There was like a part of me that wanted him to go faster because I was in agony, you know. Yes.

And at one point, I went to the waiting room and i was just like i can't watch him die it's too painful it was very selfish though and i realized that i and i also was exhausted too but like this came over me like this very clear message and almost maybe a vision that if I was in his shoes, I wouldn't want to be alone. I would want to be surrounded by the people that loved me. And I would want someone holding my hand to let me know that I was going to be okay and I was safe to go. And I think I would be afraid. And so I forced myself to go back in there. And I talked to him literally until he died. And I did. It was when I told him, finally, I was like, listen, you can go. I promise you I will take care of everything here. And then he let go.

I also told him that his loved ones would be on the other side. And that Jesus would too be waiting for him. And then we would see him again. And then he left. And you could feel it. You could feel that connection with your dad that emotional extreme emotion of um grief but um love at the same time and acceptance there's a whole lot that's going on in the final moments it's very overwhelming

i'm sorry yeah but you know what's interesting is that I've compared it Donna there's there's something that happens when you have a child in the room when you give birth there's this energy it's it's a very surreal moment and I think many of the things that happen you know when you're giving birth I mean a lot of it I forget you know like it's so surreal during that time my memory is hurt you know I mean I get I have like bits and pieces that I remember but it's not crystal clear it's just strange do you know what I'm talking about I didn't know or kids and every one of them I'm'm like, I don't remember every detail. Yeah. And it was the same vibe as I was there with my dad as he left there.

So there's something about, you know, this interdimensional entrance and exit. That is very surreal. Yeah. As a death doula, I volunteer for transitions. They're a hospice group. So that is the whole premise to being a death doula, to be there to help ease that grief and suffering for the person who's terminally ill or, you know, very close to death and then their family or their loved ones. It doesn't just have to be family, it could be loved ones too. Anybody who's there who needs the support, that's where the death doula comes in to be kind of a little bit of a backbone for people because the grief is so overwhelming and you have the anticipatory grief before they pass. Then while they're passing, then after they're passing, then as you know, like it's been eight years, you mentioned that you have lost your dad.

They're still grieving to be done. So the death doula's role can be different. Sometimes they specialize. Every doula has their own. At the training in NALDA, they actually teach the different facets of how to help that family and how to be an advocate for the person who's passing. That is your primary goal to ease their pain in any way and to help them. Your father was confessing to the priest. Death doulas are there to talk. There might be somebody who is not Catholic or who doesn't have a specific religious affiliation, they would actually be able to talk to a doula. And we are active listeners.

We don't give our opinion. We're just there for comfort and to have that ease for them to speak about things that are on their mind in those last months or weeks or days. Yeah. And then we also support the caregivers as well. And Elda's, their first class, I believe was 2015. But, you know, this end of life doula work started happening in the seventies. They work side by side with hospice. It could be with the clergy. It could be with everybody as a group to help the family and the caregiver get through those moments of pain, but also to pull out times that are happy and to build a legacy project, maybe remembrance. There's a whole lot of things that doulas can help with. Wow.

You know, oftentimes we think of a doula in birth, right? Right. Or more commonly. And I think it's beautiful, you know, because, I mean, you do need support, you know, and sometimes your partner's just not doing it. Yeah, I remember the birthing process and I was grabbing my husband's hand and he's like, you're grabbing too tight. So I'm not, you know, assisted with birthing. I know there's menopausal. There's many different.

Oh, yes. There's different doulas. Now there's like probably 10 different doulas out there. Oh. Even the death doula is evolving and specializing. The caregiver could say, I only need a doula to sit there and listen or to help with guided imagery. Maybe that helps or maybe some energy healing or sound healing. So there's many things that doulas have that holistic background they can help with.

Or the person who's passing might ask just to be listened to. They could go down memory lane and share stories. And then there's life themes regarding their journey. And just having that connection with the person who's passing and the caregivers has been a big impact. The little bit of volunteer I've done over the past few years. I've seen it with the caregivers and with the patient. They're so appreciative. So I'm all about asking people whatever they can to, to volunteer, get some training and just be there to help sit with somebody because the caregiver might be like you said, you were exhausted. You just need like a little time, a couple hours away sometimes just to clear. And so you can deal with your emotions and process things.

It's good for those nurses, the support. They are exhausted too. My dad's ER nurse, she was in her 20s, who was in cardiac ICU. And she stayed. She said, I'm not going to leave until he goes, because I've been with him this long. And it took him a long time to go. And so she was, I'm sure, exhausted. And it was emotional for her as well. Like I give so much props to these nurses. I thought about them so much, but had, you know, there been a doula, a death doula there, I can see how it would have helped all of us.

Yeah. And we're, so when, when, if anybody's interested in taking a class, I did go through Enelda, but I mean, there's other people that offered as well. But what we did was exercises to put yourself in the place of a caregiver, in place of like the patient, like you're leaving, you know, and you have to actually feel it, see it, live it, you know, and that gives you like the spectrum. And then as a doula, how you could help the person in your role playing with other participants. It's very, very empowering. Like it's sad, but it's very empowering because you had this opportunity to process what would happen if

somebody gave you bad news, whether you heard it for yourself or whether it was like a family or a friend or whomever. It helps you really see the whole big picture and it helps you like think about it day to day, not like focus on it, but just have thoughts about it and say it's going to be okay. And the doulas out there that I've met are just are beautiful. They're beautiful people. They have like just this inner strength and love and compassion. They just want to connect with people and make them feel comforted because that's at

the end of the day. If you have various family members in different roles, somebody is the grandson, somebody is the mother, somebody is the daughter. They all are feeling their own feelings. And can everybody support everybody? It's kind of difficult, but when you have a doula there, they can kind of care for everybody, be that extra person there to help. And what was empowering for me when I took this class was that you can make your wishes known in advance. Like nobody thinks about that. I don't mean just the cemetery where you're going to be laid to rest if you do want that or ashes or whatever. I'm talking about during the vigil.

How do you want your last few months or weeks or hours before you pass? How do you want things to unfold? And that is super important because I don't think most people would know, even though we love our, and we're so close and we communicate with our family and our friends all the time. We don't know these specific things. In fact, sometimes maybe even like reflecting ourselves, what do we really want? And sometimes it takes a little bit to think about that. So like, it could be as simple as the placement of your bed in the room. It could be a fragrance. It could be just candles, no fragrance.

It could be a ritual. It could be somebody holding your hand. I mean, the list goes on and on of in the room with you and what who and what conversations you want to be you know or poems or so um it's really important to reflect on all these things and this is what the doula helps with it they help uncover things and then you know if you choose to only use a doula for attending the vigil, they can actually help with the signs of, you know, where the person is, how their body is failing. And so whether it's the skin that's modeling the breathing and about the timeframe. So they kind of help the family know and digest those things.

And during those times, there might be a ritual for each of those. Yeah, there's definitely a whole connection of services there and facets to the whole death and dying portion. I mean, I was just thinking about this because if I knew I was dying and I had something terminal, or if even I was pregnant, which I can't be, but if I could, I would get a doula, right? With a terminal patient, I mean, is that something that you could do? Can you hire a doula to go through your time, however long you have? Yeah. So you can hire them for as long or as short of a time period, even if the family said, we lost somebody, we just need there to be a remembrance project,

or we need resources. Can you look this, this up? There's just many ways to help people, whether it be caregivers or the person who's going to pass and a blind patient. Donna, I know you've heard before that, I think it was King Edward, maybe, back in whenever it was, was super paranoid about midwives, right? And just a doula, pretty much, right? And a lot of times I've heard over, you know, researching some witches and stuff, a lot of times they were midwives or had some sort of holistic practice, which is so crazy. And usually it was always women. Before we got on today, I happen to just be curious to what the root word of doula was. Doula is a slave in greek so and then it evolved to caring for wow um so it definitely transitioned and ancestors you know are if you go way way way way way back

you know this was all a part of the human experience like we are so afraid of death and dying as a society i understand why um no judgment but a lot of people are starting afraid of death and dying as a society. I understand why, no judgment, but a lot of people are starting to embrace it and understand the significance. And one of the biggest people who made an impression on me, she was a young lady. She worked for Catholic charities and she went over to India to help the poorest of the poor on the street. And they came across a woman probably in her seventies, they estimated. And she told the story and I just cried. She saw this woman, knew that she was at the end of life and they took her and bathed her and gave her warmth and basically held her. And this young lady was so impressed,

had this woman she never met except at this point, right? She died in her arms, but she was smiling when she died. It was just so powerful. And that's what we want for people. We want everybody, nobody excluded. We want everybody to have care. That's why there's volunteer doulas. That's why hospice does what it does. Hospice is like just, I've heard so many stories of like that hospice is just there. They support the families, they support the patient. There's this connection. And then when doula volunteers, they are there to help in any way, emotionally make that connection or holistically, you know, with energy work or soundboard or just prayer or whatever the person needs. That like probably what five-hour interaction,

that girl had volunteered over in India, five hours of just being with that woman. And the lady passed with a smile because she knew that she was loved. Wow, that is beautiful. It was very, very powerful. And that will forever be in my memory. Like if I could even do half of what that young lady did for people, just. It's a safe space, holding a safe space. It's yes. You're right. Exactly. It's a dying space that death was. We create that space for people to know

that they're safe. Exactly. I mean, prior to doctors and nurses, I mean. That's what our ancestors did. Right. And being honored and then empowering the people in this situation. I just imagine the grief. I mean, you're still going to feel the pain. You're still going to feel the grief, but just having those memories of whether you create a ritual or remembrance project, legacy, whatever you do, there's good things added to support that grief, right? Yeah. So I had taken some shaman classes and like the next step, and I forget what they called it. Do they call it midwife to death? It wasn't called a death doula. It's called something else. I don't know. I'm not familiar with that. And I was lucky that my teacher was a direct lineage of Sandra Ingerman. She had been taught from her directly.

And I considered going on and learning more. There's a book called Soul Retrieval by Sandra Ingerman. And I read this book because I considered doing this because I really enjoyed the spirit animal retrieval, which I did learn to do. And there's this story in that book and it totally broke it for me. I was not going to be, I was not going to continue with that training because there was this family, and I think it was in another country, and Sandra was called out to this family.

This woman was dying. I mean, she was really super sick. And so this family had called her in to help retrieve her soul, right? So that she would maybe be better. And so she goes and she does the soul retrieval on this woman and the woman dies. She was like, oh God, these people are going to be so disappointed. They called me here to heal her, not to be a doula or to help her die you know but really it was in in retrieving all the bits and pieces of her soul she was whole enough then to make that transition yes it's i'm not gonna lie it is difficult work with having all these emotions surrounding you of sadness,

but somehow you have the grace to get through it and volunteer and just be in the moment, the present moment with everyone. I could not do it. I even received a thank you card from the last family I volunteered with, which was very touching, and they sent me a program for her funeral. I couldn't make the funerals out of town, but it's just amazing the connection you have with the end of life patients. It's just on another level. And maybe that's how you have the grace to have the emotional support because you definitely don't want to be as sad as everybody around you. You want to bring in the positivity. You want to bring in the

strength and you just develop that. Of course, we can meditate. We do energy healing. A little bit of everything goes a long way. Like even going to the gym and working out or just taking a walk in nature, grounding, there's many things, but doing this back to back is probably going to the gym and working out or just taking a walk in nature, grounding. There's many things, but doing this back to back is probably going to drain your batteries from helping people back to back. Because I did see there was a trainer there at Inelda who actually, I believe was more in the hospice care, but she was doula. So she did probably a little bit of everything nursing and she definitely needed that self-care more often. Just knowing your limits too, because you need to have that. I mean, death happens to all ages. That would be really hard if you had a child or someone full of life. Yes. And every experience is different, right? And I remember

the session with Mandy talking about her time at Children's Hospital. That's on a different level. And I have volunteered for patients who are elderly. So I cannot talk to that, but I can tell you that my mom had twins when I was seven and they were born full term, but they passed when I was seven. So I know how much it takes a toll on the family when they lose their child during birth or when the child is still young. It's a lot of tragedy and grief and pain. But I think that has given me the strength to help people in other ways, you know, because I've experienced that at seven and I witnessed my mom grieving.

That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember Kinsley at seven, how, I mean, really you're taking in everything. So from your mom, that must have been

really hard. It was very difficult. And of course they didn't have a doula then, but I always like think, what if we had a doula? I wouldn't have helped. Counseling was put into place, but doulas are non-medical care. So we are there to support and provide comfort. Some might have degrees in counseling as well. You know, you would have to check into that if you were interested, or if the end of life patient was really processing their own grief and the stages of dying, it was getting overwhelming with talking with the doula. You would definitely want to bring a professional counselor in. And you have all the resources. That's right. You're there to help when you hear something to pass that information on and to come up with resources for the family to make the best decision for them.

I mean, you're not pushing your opinion. You're basically just giving them options on what they can do. But there's things that come up too for when you do support people, when they do talk about their life. One of the patients that I volunteered for had a daughter a little bit younger than me who she lost a year prior, and it was from a suicide. It was very challenging because this woman was at the end stages of her life, but she had been through something so tragic and she was very close to her daughter. And being there for her to listen was, I know it meant so much to her because there was just so much grief and she was processing that and she was processing her own illness. And I did lose

my grandfather. I lost a friend to that too. So there's like things in everybody's life that has happened. And when you recover and when you build on that, when you heal from that, usually that becomes a help to somebody else, right? You can kind of have more strength for somebody else who's going through that grief process. It's very meaningful to have that. You know what? There was a shaman circle I had went to years ago. I'll never forget what he said. I mean, it just hit me and it stuck with me forever. But that death is not final, right? It's just a transition. And every day

we are transitioning, whether it's, and he says, the first time you experience your first death is when you leave your mother's breast. The way that he used these living experiences as death, he called them deaths, and they were just like graduating from one stage of your life to the next. And so how has this work changed your views on, you know, what death looks like? Definitely helped me evolve. It helped me connect with my own, my own fears. Right? And it's helped me discuss it with my family, with where they see themselves with death, because it's not like a normal everyday conversation,

right? We don't bring up death at all. I guess you get used to the word death, when you think of that, it becomes like a little bit more part of your thought process. I definitely, when you were telling the story, I definitely had chills about that because I thought that was very meaningful and that helps open people up with the whole death and dying. It's, it is, it's the next stage of transitioning. I feel like they're still around us. Like I lost my cat and he suffered for a long time. He had a very bad illness and we've spent a lot of money trying to figure out what it was, really never figured it out. But, and there's grief, right? So I learned so much from that experience, probably more than any other experience of being a caretaker and never knowing when I wake up what

I'm going to find. But, you know, he went peacefully and I talk to him now because I feel like, yes, he transitioned. And when I feel that connection, I need to connect with him because he was in our lives for eight years. We adopted him. He was a senior cat. He was seven. So we're about more than about nine years, but we had that time with him and we made his last years as livable and as fun and as loving as we could. So that's what it's all about, right? It's all about that connection and just not taking much for granted. Sometimes we even give our animals in their elderly stage more space and consideration and thought than we do humans. You know, I just feel like sometimes the elderly are forgotten. Yes, it makes me very sad the way not everyone has the same support system, but we all do what we can do. And just getting the word out, trying to volunteer, even if you don't want to be a doula, just being in the senior homes, if you can provide something fun for them to do, some story, song, whatever, bring flowers in. I'm all about any little thing you can

do or give that will make somebody smile or feel that they are loved. Yeah, because not everybody has family either at that age. No. No. In fact, they might have outlived everybody. Yes. Sad. Yes. There are so many ways, so many simple ways to help others and it wouldn't take much time or effort or money, just, you know, whatever you can do for your community. You know, I don't know if you listened to or heard Mandy and I ever speak about how when her fireman, I'd asked Mandy and I actually, Mandy calls me. She's like, John wants to know if we'll come up to the hospital. His mom basically is on life support and he doesn't know if he should take her off or not. She was in her elderly stage

and he had lost his dad years before. And I'm like, me, What? This is so emotional for me. I just got to stop. But we go up there and I just kind of gave her a body scan as if I was going to do Reiki on her. I just was just trying to feel like how much of her energy was here, how much of her aura was still here. And I swear to you you she hardly had any there was like it went straight down in fact I didn't feel anything until I got super super super close to her and then it was just like this vibration it was like electricity it was the machine she was connected to is the energy that I felt and I was very confident in saying her oars already gone yes and I feel that too you know when you're um when you have the gift of energy healing

and um which is everybody has that but if you're studying it you actually practice it you can actually feel things and I do feel that that is true. Like when you mentioned her, I could feel chills, like I could feel her with us when you mentioned her. I do agree there are certain times, but so this goes back to having the talk with family in advance before they're at that stage of life, like so important to know, even like, like, let's just say my mom wants to be on a ventilator for 20 days or whatever, where I'm like the exact opposite. I'm like, as soon as everybody says goodbyes to me, let me go. So, you know, everybody has their own thoughts on that. Yeah, I know. I haven't really thought

about it. That's terrible that I don't, but we all should. I went to this spiritual gathering at my friend Katori just opened up her own like little Reiki center. And many of my other students like locally were there. There were so many of them. Like it was really super amazing. But one of the girls and I've had her on my podcast, Tina, and she also does some death doula. And she was talking about the many different ways now, instead of being buried, or instead of buying a very expensive coffin, or instead of being cremated like there's so many different options now i mean one she was telling about here in colorado which i never heard of it's like you go into the water and then you become water or something and then they have gardens that they right um and then you hear about some are just in the ground and with the tree. I've literally changed my mind so many times because every time I hear something, like first I wanted to be buried in a coffin, then I wanted to be, you know, cremated. And then I was like,

oh no, that's bad for the environment. And then I heard about the water where it dissolves, I guess if you're water long enough, it'll dissolve. And then, or, you know, like you said, there's specific areas where they have designated where you can be buried, you know, in the ground naturally, like you said, by a tree in nature. very important to also know that information up front for your relatives and passing that forward or your loved ones. Just very, very important because there's so many options if you can do that in advance. Let's talk about the moon burial. Okay. That's not on my list yet, but I'll have to look more into that. On January 5th of 2024, human remains were headed to the moon, despite the Navajo Nation, who was asking that this not be done. Like those of many Indigenous people, hold the moon as something very sacred. Sending human remains there was seen as an act of desecration. Yeah, I can understand that viewpoint. I don't understand using the fuel to go up to the

moon to bury somebody, but I feel like I love the earth so much that, I don't know, I'm part of it, so bury me here. I came from it, and I want to stay here. So then I heard on their way there, it crashed or blew up or something. Oh, no. So it blew up on the moon, or it blew up on the way to the moon? So on January 22nd, this mission sending these human remains to the moon failed. It was an astrobiotic kind of like drone thing. There was like some sort of critical fuel leak shortly after separating from the booster.

I don't know. It didn't work out. So, you know, I'm always just everything happens for a reason. I don't know. It just, it didn't work out. So, you know, I'm always just everything happens for a reason. I don't know. Kind of interesting. Yes, it's made news and is newsworthy, I suppose. But I don't understand it. But then, you know, everybody has their own.

Yeah, I guess. Right. Well, you know, here's the thing. Their own beliefs. I find, like, some traditions of, like, how the Vikings did it, right? I mean, they would put you on a boat and start on fire. And, of course, like you said, it's not always good for the environment now since, and we are in a very critical state for our environment. So probably not doing anything that's not good for our environment.

But there's, I guess, the one that is the tree. That becomes a tree that is then protected. Like if you are buried as part of this tree, that is state protected now. And it cannot be cut down. I've heard this. I'm not 100% sure, but probably in here in Colorado anyways. Yeah. I imagine somebody owns the property kind of like a cemetery. They own the land and yeah, it's just, everybody's remains are there and they're not

going to do anything with the land and they're going to keep burying people. I imagine that takes up less land than having plots. Where are you going to put all these people? I remember my dad said jokingly after he knew he was going to die, he was like, I don't care what you do with me. You can throw me down Colfax, which is like our long avenue. And there used to be where the Catholics weren't allowed to cremate. And I remember sitting with the priest talking to him about this after my dad died and him telling me that, you know, they changed their mind on that too. So it's okay, you know, for people to these things that we could do with this meat suit but the bottom line is is it's just your vehicle right you're no longer exactly oh in it's just i just it's helpful to honor your body while you can right and then when you're passing in the visual state your loved ones get a chance to honor it and then just

with nature then at that point it's really for the people here yeah the other day donna i'm serious i was so touched by this this girl goes to cemeteries and she cleans the graves especially like the older ones. Like she was connecting and honoring. I thought it was very beautiful. That's very touching. That's very touching. And I saw something, a post where this woman would find animals who were killed on the highway and she would literally take them and she just wanted to honor them no matter what kind of animal it was and she would bury them and I thought wow that's very touching yeah just and had a little ceremony for them with her dog her her and her dog would have these ceremonies for the animal oh my god that's so sweet i love that someone's kind enough to to think of something like that i mean we need more people like that in

the world yeah when i'm driving i'm usually like oh that's so sad somebody is actually taking the time to do that that's just amazing yeah amazing So beautiful. You want to hear something funny? And I don't know if Mandy, she doesn't have very good memories of her, but probably won't remember this. I remember telling her, and I was probably like in my 20s, early 20s, like, dude, if I ever die, you cannot let my mom dress me. I was like, she will put me in some flower, like prairie dress or something. I was like, just please make sure that. Mandy's in charge if she needs to be, to dress you, right? But then I thought about it.

I'm like, that was traumatizing for me. It's one of my very first memories, you know, is seeing my grandma in her casket, you know, that whole wake thing and all that. I know that, you know, this was, this is a practice that they do for the grieving process. But for me as a child, that was traumatic. Yes. And also it's the way our parents and our families actually help us with that process. Like, I don't know if you were kind of not ignored, but you know, everybody was focusing on their grief and you might've needed an extra hug or like a little talk to help with that grieving process. People tend to forget that there's little ones that also need the love and support when they see death.

So true. I don't remember. That it's safe. Right. Just knew I needed to be really good during that service. Yeah, I could see that. I definitely understand that. Those Catholic funerals can be a whole day thing, 12 hours. Yes. Yeah. you're pretty lengthy very somber like there's some services that you go to where it's like a celebration of life they might have more upbeat music but there is like a definite somberness to some religions and

traditions you know you'll see something posted on social media where there's a tribal where somebody's dying, but there's like definite like chanting or there's like yelling or whatever, like everybody has their tradition and ritual. And that's so important too, as a deftal, you definitely want to honor whatever traditions and ceremonies you want to learn from that for that experience you want to understand you want to be able to communicate all the expectations and know so you can respect and honor every part of the way my husband and i talk about when i pass i want this song and his big thing is right um if you could if he could get yanni there that would be like his last wish his bucket list final wish is to have yanni play at his funeral i'm just so glad that there's people

like you who can do this because like i said i'm too much of a cry baby i'd be crying i i would be needing them to console me it's so funny because last uh hospice patient just loved her. She just, I love them all. But I said to her family, I said, are you okay if I do energy healing? Because I know she wasn't feeling so good. And they're like, sure. So they were there in the house while we would watch her and they would be able to do other things. So I asked, I always ask, would you like energy healing? And she said, she's like, yes. Like, and she had dementia and I prayed over and she just gave me the biggest smile when I was done. Like, oh, like you could tell she felt lighter. And then I went back a few more weeks and I said,

would you like energy healing? And I touched her and she touched me. It was almost like she was giving me energy healing back. It was healing too. It was very interesting. So that's what I'm saying. Like not every moment is filled with sadness or trauma or grief. You have some moments where it's so inspiring and it adds an experience to your life that you're like, wow, I'm never going to forget that. Right. So that's what we're

supposed to be doing, experiencing life. So here in Colorado, we are a state where you can have a physician assisted suicide or a death with dignity, so assisted death. And this is even if you are not dying. So I actually have a friend who her mother did that. How do you feel about that? That is something you are meant to be open-minded about with the death of the Lord. And I suppose if you don't have an openness, then you might want to refer your family out position they want for their last days. It's very personal, and I would never hold judgment on that. It's everybody's journey. It's their life, right? Yeah.

I have a question. This is a little bit of an off one, too. But recently, there was a man who was executed and it was a new method. And it was sad because they said that it didn't go as planned. It was in Alabama. Right. And he was scared that it wouldn't. They had actually interviewed him prior and he was scared that it wouldn't go as planned.

It was a new method and it was nitrogen hypoxia. Do you believe that even those who are being executed have the right? And I don't know if they do. I mean, they have the right to have priests and last rites and stuff. Well, that's like probably the saddest of them all, right? Being in prison and you're going to die there. And really, you definitely feel separation from anybody who you're close with. If you did have family outside, there's just no compassion or not enough compassion. And there are specialized doulas who go to prisons to help prisoners to

help them through their death process, which I think is super beautiful. There's not going to be judgment for me. We honor requests. Now, as far as, like I said, death doulas, we are there to help comfort, provide active listening. We're educators on the death process. We are not trained medically to do any kind of service

like that. We're just there to help provide the support of feeling they have somebody there to comfort them and then feeling that they have a connection with somebody in their last moments here. Right. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for coming on talking about this i've never had anyone on talking about it my pleasure super excited to just have you on anyways because you've been a part of my journey my sense of soul journey for sure and you know through this podcast i made a friend for life in you yes you inspired me so. And I listen to your podcast all the time. Everybody's like, Oh, why don't you listen to this podcast? I'm like, Nope, gotta listen to Senses All. So I do want to share with people there is a doula that's out there that

has a podcast. So if you search on podcasts, look up death dou. There are people starting to talk more about this. And then there's podcasts on grief and grieving and just educate as much as you can. If you have any questions, of course, reach out. And another great resource, of course, because I went through the program was Inelda. They're definitely a very supportive organization, nonprofit organization for helping everyone. That kind of like US wide or? Yes. Yes. They are in the States, but they're International End of Life Dual Association. And the classes that I went through were through Zoom. So they might have some in person now at the time they're still transitioning. Well, thank you, Donna. Do you have a place where

the listeners can find you if they have any questions just want to provide the background and information. There's so much more information than what I shared, but definitely I'm a resource if they need to ask any questions. Well, that's beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing this very important subject of deaf. And you are a beautiful soul and I appreciate you in my life. I love you dearly. Thanks so much for coming on.

I love you too, Shanna. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast and thanks to our special guests for joining me. If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com where you can work with me one-on-one or help support Sense of Soul podcast by donating to my coffee fund. Thanks for listening.