Sense of Soul - Free Your Inner Guru with Laura Tucker

Episode Date: April 30, 2021

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast we welcomed Laura Tucker. Years ago Laura was searching for a new way to support her clients during the age of the popular movie and book “The Secret”.  She like many others embarked on a personal growth journey under the leadership of one of the “Secret” stars, James Arthur Ray.  In 2009 at James Ray’s infamous ‘Sweat Lodge’, Laura had a front row seat to tragedy where sadly three of her peers died as a result of the events that day and over a dozen hospitalized. Her journey back to wholeness began in 2015 when she decided to trust herself again and agreed to participate in the documentary ‘Enlighten Us’. Wondery's podcast Guru: The Dark Side of Enlightenment was released in July 2020, which also highlights this tragedy and Laura’s story. After years of overcoming the challenges from that painful experience, Laura kept going and persevered, finding her light again. She is a photographer, writer and today inspires and empowers many hosting the Free Your Inner Guru® Podcast, where she talks about leadership, self growth, creativity and spirituality. Find Laura here at her website www.freeyourinnerguru.com www.lauratucker.com Download for FREE “ The Free Your Inner Guru® Guidebook” Listen to the episode on her podcast with the amazing author of “The meaning of life”,  Nathanael Novosel at this Link Check out Nathanael’s  book: The Meaning of Life: A guide to finding your life's purpose. AND of course don’t forget to Rate, Review and Subscribe and visit www.mysenseofsoul.com!

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today we have with us Laura Tucker. Years ago, Laura was searching for a new way to support her clients. In the age of the popular book, The Secret, she, like many others, embarked on a personal growth journey under the leadership of one of the secret stars, James Arthur Ray. In 2009, at the infamous sweat lodge held by James Ray, Laura had a front row seat to the tragedy where three of her peers died as a result of the events that day. Her journey back to wholeness began in 2015 when she decided to trust herself again and she agreed to participate in the documentary, Enlighten Us. You can also learn more about her story on the Wanderers podcast, Guru,

The Dark Side of Enlightenment that was released last year in July, which highlights this tragedy in Laura's story. After years of overcoming the challenges from that painful experience, Laura kept going and persevered. Finding her light again, she is now doing what she loves. And today she inspires and empowers many,

hosting the Free Your Inner Guru podcast. One of our wonderful past guests, Nate Novosel, the author of The Meaning of Life, connected us. And so thank you, Nate. And thank you, Laura, for being with us. Oh, it's my pleasure to be here. So have you always been a truth speaker? I think if I was to look at my whole life, which I have been lately because I'm in the middle of writing a memoir, I would say when I was a child and a teen and a young adult that yes, in my forties and now I'm in my approaching my my mid 50s definitely but there were years in between where I lost touch with my inner truth and to me when that connection was missing you're not very grounded

when you're not connected to your truth yeah very true so let's get the elephant out of the room so we can just move on, right? But in 2009, you attended a New Age spiritual warrior retreat, right? Which ended in tragedy, unfortunately. Sure. And I appreciate it can be a challenging thing to ask about because it is so out there. Three people died at a spiritual retreat, a personal growth or self-help retreat, whatever label or genre you want to call it. That is an elephant in the room. It's the perfect metaphor. So there's two ways for me to look at it. I was on an 18 month journey that began for me in 2008 when I first watched The Secret. James Arthur Ray, who was the leader in this

situation, I attended a whole bunch of his workshops, was receiving a tremendous amount of benefit to my personal growth. And there were very real results in the world because of that, particularly in business. It was the Great Recession. And then at this retreat, which just happened to be the last one that I was going to be attending, I'd done them all. And it was his quote unquote, pinnacle retreat. It was a week long retreat. It was very different from the others. It was smaller group instead of hundreds, there were dozens. It was in Sedona, one of my favorite places in the world. And the story really doesn't start and finish there. Because when I go back to look at it, the reason that I was in the workshops in the first place, had everything

to do with my journey that really started in 2001, 2002. After we lost in our family, a, the youngest member of my extended family, my youngest cousin died in a car accident. And that was my first real look at mortality. It was so unexpected. It was the opposite order of things. And at the time I was working in corporate America, I was in sales. Before that, I had been a trainer and I was a high school teacher. So I was already on this journey of reiteration and redefining myself and looking for a better fit. While I was very successful in that, I was also having to take antidepressants to be able to stay and thrive, thrive, air quotes, in that environment. And after my cousin died, my very first decision was to stop with the antidepressants. Literally, I heard a voice. I didn't know that that voice was my intuition. I would have never in those days prefaced it that way. But that's how strong

the push from within was that I actually felt like I heard it in the backseat of my car. It was you need to actually feel this, you need to let yourself feel it. And that started me on an entirely different trajectory, looking for different solutions that wound me up on this personal growth journey with James Ray. And, you know, that involved a creative, you know, bringing a creative passion for photography forward, picked up, I moved across Canada from Toronto to, to British Columbia, and it's small, it's a desert climate, the, you know, the, it's canyony there, you know, it's, it's a very beautiful area. And, and that's how I got into a situation where I was living away from my family and and friends I I created a whole life for me there and and but I was missing a community of people

to really connect with and that's where we dovetail into the whole journey that led me to spiritual warrior wow I can see that. And I've often said even recently, as much as I don't really believe in organized religion, there is still this need for togetherness and community. We're all one. And so we're naturally connected to each other. It's so hard, like during this pandemic to be separated from people so I could see how you know you were kind of seeking you know some support I was and it came in the the guise of um business for me and a lot of this is actually I'll just mention it because it's kind of this other elephant in the room I'm featured strongly in this big podcast that Wondery made last year, and it's called Guru,

the Dark Side of Enlightenment. And that story there in six, and then a seventh and an eighth episode, really focused on that period of time, where the secret came into my life. And I was living on my own, it was me and my dog. It had been for years and years and years. The recession was happening. I was working as a consultant in the automotive industry. Everything was really hard. And then I had a bad breakup with a succession of unsuitable boyfriends and like, and the last one of the unsuitable boyfriends I'll say. And so it was like, all the conditions were there for me to either turn to, you know, back to antidepressants, to self medication through either eating or, or I like my red wine, you know, so, you know, all the conditions were there. And in looking at how people want to tell this story, and really keep it limited to the journey with James Ray, you kind of miss out on the broader context of how the self-help journey fits within real life. And oftentimes, you know, business was getting hard.

So that was like one of my last pillars of support that it's like, whoa, I got to pay attention to this. So that's why I was like, you know, I've been in business at that point for, Oh gosh, almost 10 years. I'd never really done anything for myself. So I wanted to invest in myself. And that's where I went to these workshops and met all these other people who had their own businesses, who all wanted to change the world, who were thinking about the recession in a different way. And it really did become at least as much about, you know, the friendships and the relationships and that sense of connection as it was about what we were learning. And it's all very intertwined. Absolutely. Spiritual growth with finding your purpose, whether the purpose is in business, whether the purpose is to be an entrepreneur, to be a millionaire, to, you know, just a podcaster, they they're very much entwined because it's all about finding your soul's purpose.

So I understand that, you know, it's interesting that you mentioned the antidepressants because I just called Shanna and had a conversation, never coincidences about how I had a near death experience in 2013. And I've been on antidepressants pretty much ever since because of the anxiety around the asthma attack. And for the first time ever, I feel like I'm living in reality because I weaned myself off of them about three months ago. And I feel like I'm feeling things.

It's not that I didn't feel them before. It's just now that when I do feel them, they resonate with my soul and I can use the discernment and go, okay, this is not right. You know, I'm not saying antidepressants are bad for everyone because it got me through some of the hardest times in my life. But when you do remove them, kind of like in the book of Alcoholics Anonymous, it says that any mind altering substances block you from the sunlight of the spirit. It's a tricky conversation to have because there are people who are alive and well because of antidepressants. And then there are people like me who the antidepressants were a tool to keep me going in an environment that was incredibly toxic to me. A long time ago, I did a degree in psychology. And so I'm not completely up to date on all of the DSM diagnostics statistical manual, but it was almost like situational

depression versus long-term chronic. And even to this day, I have practices that I have to maintain in order to not go there. And the pandemic, you know, jumping to present, you know, if we, the pandemic has been a very, very challenging time. And honestly, I don't know where I would be emotionally if I hadn't been on this journey of peeling back yet another layer on this whole journey. And realizing that part of what I was missing in my life was my writing and photography, which I set aside to pursue being in the self-help industry. Like once I got, and I think this happens to a lot of us and I'm forming some very different opinions on it now, but we get into a situation where suddenly we're learning how to live a little differently. We're very enthusiastic about it. And then we start going out and proselytizing and I became a coach, it was a natural professional extension, consultant to

coach, you know, it allowed me to work on some other things with my clients that really helped them. But I left my own creative outlet behind. And this whole past couple of years has been about reintegrating that. And in many ways, I feel like I'm stepping away from the self-help world toward the creative world. Even with my own podcast, it started as something that I was doing as a marketing tactic. And then it's become this whole thing where it's like, wait a minute, there's value in this thing. It doesn't have to be in service of selling anything. The conversations are what matter. The conversations are what I'm creating and co-creating as we are right now. So I'm in another re iteration right now. And so staying in this

creative zone is as well as taking care of my body and taking care of my mind. They have to be there for me. If someone's listening, and they're hearing two people that have weaned off antidepressants, and they're feeling like, oh, maybe I should wean off. That's not how you decide. First and foremost, I had a horrible time with weaning myself off, even though I thought I understood how to do it from my, I used to be in this crazy degree I did at University of Toronto, psychology was a science and we, there was animal testing and this is a long time ago, but I knew how to administer doses and I weaned myself off, but it was Paxil and it was horrendous. And so I just want to, as a responsible human being say that, I don't know how you did it, but if I were to do it again, it would be under medical supervision, no matter how smart

I think I am. I was on Paxil as well for like seven years, but I decided that I was going to seek therapy during that time as I weaned off. So that way I didn't just wean off and had no tools. I was weaning off as I was learning new tools, like mindfulness, like cognitive therapy, you know, ways to relax myself so I could sleep and whatnot. But yeah, it's very important because if you just think that you're healed now, I'm good. I've been on this medicine. I thought I've been, you know, I'm going to get off and I'm going to be good. Thank you for bringing that up, Shanna, because that is a big reason why

I chose at this time. It's all about that divine timing because I, I have spent years putting tools in this toolbox that I have learned to practice on a daily basis. So I was confident in those tools and with my support system. So yeah. And thank you, Laura, for, for bringing that up. Cause that's very important for the listeners to know. I was going to say, you know, self-help and creativity seem to go hand in hand. It's interesting. We've had a lot of guests on who have really urged me to find that creative side of myself. And like recently I did like a poster board of my near death experience and I'm not a drawer. I can't draw worth crap. And I loved how in your podcast, you said that when you were a teacher, the kids

said that everything you drew looked like a chicken on fire. Totally. That's hilarious. It looks, it's tremendous. That's so me. What's that supposed to be? That doesn't look like clouds. It's another chicken on fire. That's so funny. I love that you said that. So I did it. I put the fear aside. I put the poster board out in front of me. I put on some great music and I just, you know, no judgment, quit judging yourself, Mandy. And it really was amazing therapy for me. I was able to just listen to the music and flow and, and, you know, it's not like I didn't plan on throwing it out for people to see, but I was proud of it when it was done, even

though there was still some things that look like a chicken on fire, but they can really go hand in hand. I think self-help really does help you bring out that creativity. And I think that creativity offers such healing. Yeah, it does. So I, but I want to ask you coming out of all this stuff with this James Ray dude, you had to, I'm sure at some point like heal from that. So here you are trying to seek help and then ended up in a place where it was like you needed double self help how did you learn to trust yourself again I mean because we are so hard on ourselves and I'm

sure that a lot of people were after that yeah and I guess like I I can be the queen of hard on myself yeah even from get-go so you've hit it on the head as far as that was. So I'll give a little bit of detail just so it's easier to understand how easy it was to blame myself. So that week in Sedona, you know, this is a very high trust group and it's people who've been on workshops together for a year and a half. You know, you might have been in that situation where you're going to workshop. It was a week long. It was the last physical thing that we did. And James Ray always had physical challenges at his events, as do many, many, many.

It's kind of part of the hallmark is going to go and get your breakthrough. And so the breakthrough event, well, there were a number of breakthroughs. I thought we were done. I had no idea there's going to be another breakthrough of this week. It was very, very arduous. We were staying at a very rustic place, beautiful and way outside of Sedona in the hills called Angel Valley. And first of all, the ceremony is an Indigenous Native spiritual ceremony. And the fact that we were even doing a sweat lodge, and yes, there was a Native man there, but it wasn't being led by a Native, it was being done by non-Natives. I didn't have a true appreciation for what it was. But you go into an enclosed space. And in this case, I think it was a relatively large sweat lodge, there were close to 50 people in it. And it's very packed. And what happens is the idea is that it's for

rebirth and transformation. And it does involve an altered state, as many and arguably all breakthroughs alter your state. And so what happens is in rounds, these hot rocks that have been heated on a fire get brought into the enclosed tent and put in a pit in the middle. And they emanate the heat so it gets very very hot inside you know if somebody wants the excruciating detail on it that's where I would refer people to the Wondery podcast guru I think it's the second episode is very very detailed and was very much like reliving it partially because because it's in my voice, as well as one other woman. But at the end of the day, what happened in my small slice was that the woman who had been one of the, you know, sort of senior people there, and by senior, I mean, she had done other sweat lodges,

she was on the team, not necessarily a participant. She was struggling. I had a sense of it. And I raised my voice twice to say, I think there's something wrong. I was heard, but I wasn't listened to. And I did ask her and non-verbally she communicated. At least I interpreted her communication as, you know, kind of leave me alone. I'm okay. I'm being told by James Ray. She knows what she's doing. And then the end of the very, very sad story is that her name is Liz Newman. And she's one of the three people who died. She didn't die on scene. She died a week later in the hospital. And so I was left with, you know, kind of holding the bag on having a sense that something wasn't right, use my voice, but wasn't able to have my intended effect. And left me, I can tell by the

looks on your faces, like it left me in a situation of could have done more, should have done more. Why didn't I do more? And that was very, very, very challenging. Can't imagine. But you know, now though, yeah, most days, most hours, most minutes, right? Like, right. Yeah. You know, and I couldn't always talk about it like this. And the question is, how do you go? How do you live after that? And part of the honest answer is not all that well, because despite what the exterior might have been saying, because lots of things were happening in my life in those years, across social media, from across the country, looked pretty great. Right. But on the inside, I was really, really struggling. And I got together with the man who's now my husband later that month. And he has a, he has a son. So I had a stepson and he came into my life at 15 going on 16. And they moved from Eastern Canada to come out West. And so you can just imagine going from a

single person who's had the consulting business, got my dog, um, suddenly a full-time stepmother, new wife, new business owner. I threw aside every single thing related to self-help spirituality. Didn't do any, no yoga, no meditation, no nothing. I went right back to, um, the consulting. And then we opened the gym together because I wanted a tangible business. I was like, I don't want anything to do with any of that. So you wanted to feel safe. You wanted to go back to where you kind of felt safe before. Yeah.

And in some ways that was the responsible thing to do because it required less energy to maintain while all this other stuff was going on. And on another sense, it was like, you know, the expression throwing the baby out with the bathwater. So it was inevitable that there would be a return. There would be some challenges. I had stepped off the path, but it's also where I learned to function in a different way. And then after years, this is not my recommended route. Sometimes I think that if,

if I had just kind of thrown in the towel and, you know, gone on disability and gone into heavy therapy for a year or 18 months, I'd probably be right here right now, you know, like it, but it might've been, it might've been the smarter thing to do, but I don't like to think in that terms because like, well, what would that have pushed away? You know, my husband, my stepson, the family that I have now, and just to bring it back around to the thing that really, you know, was the catalyst for healing ironically was talking about it. And talking about it, I had all kinds of support in terms of therapy, body workers, energy workers, like my team, I they were in place, I'd have to find them. So because I was always very proactive with my my wellness. And so they

were just like waiting for me with stretched arms. When I came home, I used, and I sought out every healing modality to move some of this energy. And it didn't feel like it was making much of a difference at the time, but I just kept going and kept going. And then at some point in 2015, so it's fully like five, six years later, I got contacted about a documentary that was being made on it. And, you know, this event was splashed all across the media at the time.

It was treated like a cult. It was one of those things that looked like it, it smelled like it. And arguably, I think, you know, it's still a tricky area for me, but if talking about it in those terms is what's going to help these types of situations to not play out over and over again in different ways, then I, my comfort zone for talking about it in those terms has grown. But then if you're going to call what we were doing a cult, then you have to call the entire self-help industry a cult. That's what I ask for in the conversation now, is that, you know, if we let it be this outlier thing that is so weird and different and that nobody will, of any means or societal power, will talk about, even though they're associated with it, then it's guaranteed it will proliferate. And so irony piece was that one of the things that was very traumatizing to me after the event was being splashed all over CNN as this cult follower and then being central to the trial

and having that broadcast on CNN, even though I tried to ask the judge to not be on TV, because I was I didn't want to be on TV. I didn't feel like I really had to, I had to be there to speak the truth. But technically, I'm a Canadian, I didn't have to be there. You know, so I was always trying it under wraps and learning to talk about it even though it was ironically on a CNN films documentary the first time which is separate from CNN the news but really being like shoved into this situation where I have very little control over how I tell the story, that became problematic in its own way. But there was something about dealing with it on the level that it occurred that ended up showing me a path to healing was to speak and to speak again and to speak again. And ultimately that led to my podcast. Wow. So we had on my brother's master Sergeant who made a quick decision to let my brother go out on a last mission before he was leaving to come home for the birth of his daughter in Iraq.

And my brother got killed on that mission and he had this like survivor guilt and he, you know, at first when he drank it away and he tried to kill himself and he didn't, you know, have any tools at the time, but ultimately he went back into the army and did a couple more deployments. And he said the same thing. He said, the one thing that has saved his life is sharing it and talking about it. And every time he shares a little bit more and every time he talks about it a little bit more, there's another little piece that he realizes, wow, I didn't cry at this part, but this part, this time got me. So then he can look at that piece of it and heal that piece. And he said, it's been a beautiful journey of healing, obviously a very unfortunate situation. Thank you for sharing that story.

And I have so much empathy for him, but also, I mean, I'm sorry for your loss. Oh, and I'm so sorry for yours too. But yeah, it's, it it's and some people are really lucky they get to do that healing in a private room with one therapist on cnn that being me between the two of you i was just in the therapist office yeah and i can't explain and so don't. So now I have a very different relationship with speaking about it. Like, you know, you've got, you can see in the background, we both have our podcast names. So even just as an example, a small example of how many layers to healing there can be for the longest time if someone said to me which they often did you followed a guru that would be enough to trigger me into flashbacks nightmares sobs like a full-on trigger and that was very triggering for me for one reason well more than one reason one was I never really saw um the leader there as a. That wasn't my relationship to it. I certainly, I saw, I certainly saw that I could learn and I saw something that I thought I wanted to do and

become. So if that's a guru, that's great. But that wasn't my understanding of it. Like my, how I looked at that dynamic was, you know, a guru and it was never complimentary, right? It's like the zombie unthinking follower. And I, I've been a leader from day one. And so to me, that was, you know, it hit to my core. And then in 2017, when I decided, Hey, I think I'm going to have a podcast. What am I going to name it? And it became like this little joke I had with the universe about using the word guru in my podcast name, because by that point, I could hear it and I could laugh. And it really is about, and it's free your inner guru. And that is the journey. It was a nice, concise way to summarize the journey of coming home to yourself after really

a hellacious journey. And so that in itself, you can probably tell from my tone and my smile, that's almost like this symbol of the healing. Oh, my God. And it makes me smile too, Laura, because I'm so happy for you that you were able to find that. You didn't let this have you more lost. You actually went inside and found everything you were looking for. And now you're using your voice to help others by sharing your story well thank you thank you that that feels very good to hear and I also enjoy that you know I understand and appreciate when I come and do podcasts and

and I am writing a memoir because I've decided I know that the only time I'm going to be 100% happy with how the story is told is to tell it in my own words with the context and I keep being put forward not because that's what I know when I'm going into the projects which is a whole other it's a whole other thing, but apparently I'm pretty good at storytelling. So if I'm, what I'm learning is if I open my mouth and I tell the story for a media outlet, it's likely to be used in how they want to use it. And that's, I've, I'm okay with that as long as it's somewhat representative of something I consider truth. And, you know, but what I love is that it's become about having conscious conversations

and that connection and the community that can happen around a podcast and between the me and my guests and the relationships and that's what I'm exploring now so I don't talk about the Sedona Sweat Lodge every episode to me that would be nothing more onerous and boring than that but I bring my experience to the role of interviewer. And we were talking a little bit about some of our intentions behind our respective podcasts before we came on here. And my intention for the conversation every step of the way is to hold nothing back. You know, to have these incredible people on and then just pump them for their wisdom. So that it's available, and not withheld by a guru, or if someone is looking for resources, and is able and willing to do the inner work on their own, I'm given as much as I can. And that's where I love that it brings every part of me to the role,

including my love for reading, because I tasked myself with the ethic of if I'm going to engage with someone who's got a book, I've got to read it cover to cover. You know, there's other certain types of leaders and figures I don't want on my podcast because I don't want to have a role in proliferating their work. I'd like to say that the interviews I did watch you on without ever meeting you, it was interesting that I felt drawn

to your, because I knew they were truth instantly. instantly could just tell they were from your heart. I think a lot of us go to Barnes and Nobles and pick up these books and we have no idea the healing and the heart that goes into them. And, you know, we sit there and think, oh, well, Tiger Woods just wrote a book to make money off his story with his dad. Like that's our ego, right? Our ego steps in and we don't know the true intention and the soul behind a lot of these people that are coming on to CNN or to wherever to share these stories. It's, you know, our ego gets so in the

way of the intention. And I never felt that with you ever. You're, you have a gift to not just storytell, but to speak with truth without someone knowing you. Oh my God. That is so true, Mandy. And then, yeah. So that's such a gift. And then I wanted to ethics. You talk a lot about that. That means a lot to you. Why does it mean so much to you and how would you define it? In the world of synchronicity that we're living in right now where we are speaking right now because of nathaniel garrett novicell and he wrote his book title the meaning of life takes a deep deep dive into ethics and maybe we can link my interview with him too because he apologizes for writing an 80 page chapter on ethics and i was like are, are you kidding? This is the, to me, this is the most interesting part

because nobody's doing it. We are all immersed in ethics right now. And, you know, I, all of my work as a coach had previously focused on beliefs and values. And I thought values was the compass for going out into the world and I haven't changed but what I'm what I do understand after you know the last time I really looked at ethics was probably second year University of Toronto when I bailed out of a philosophy course because it was so boring

you know but ethics is how we engage with yeah right so ethics is how we engage with each other so I'm starting to think that we are now living in an age of ethics where we in order to become more conscious so that we can actually have influence in the world or see that the people who are rising to influence are beneficial, not just for themselves, not just for their bank accounts, not just for a particular agenda or political party. I think all of that, you almost have to clear the decks because they're old structures. I'm not speaking practically. I know that they're not going to be done away with anytime soon. I think that we really need to look at how people are engaging with other people. Yeah. And recently, just as a, an example, I was listening to a podcast and if I can remember who it was that was speaking, I'll, I'll, I'll mention it, but I just don't right now, but it

was two, two leaders in the spiritual space, one interviewing the other. And it was a first meeting between them. So that's kind of cool. That happens on podcasts, like it is happening right now with us. And the one of them said that when they meet people in the self-help and spiritual space who are in positions of influence, now that they've attained their own position of influence, they are watching when people engage with them to see not just how they're treating me, but how they're treating, you know, my, my assistant and my, like the people who are working for me. And that is ethics. Like you either have an ethic that you treat all people with respect, kindness, empathy, compassion, love, or you have the ethic that you treat people well, who you want something from,

or who you think you have something to gain from. Those are ethics. And so it's under my spotlight right now. It's helping me because I'm in another reiteration of stepping away from, you know, coaching. I'll still do some of it. But my interest is in creating a community with a particular set of ethics that gives people an opportunity to really engage in big conversations. My belief is that big conversations with meat and nuance are what will, what help us grow and will help ultimately with the change that we seek to make. In a place of being authentic too, you know, with intention. Yeah. Yeah. I really like on your website, how you said the world is our mirror. It's been showing us for the last couple of years and more that we need more conscious people to step up, be seen and heard.

And I feel like that's so true. And then you put the ethics behind that. So authentic people with genuine intention, we are being called to step up and create these conversations and continue to spread that love and to invite other people into those conversations. Part of the journey, as I see it anyways, who am I to say what anyone's journey but my own is I think withdrawing to yourself and taking the time to learn what your true essence is what your conditioning is and how you connect with your intuition, that is very, very valuable. That's a valuable period of introspection. And I think, for me, that's when being on my own suits me. Like I've jokingly said that I feel like I want to run like a 90 day guru detox or

something fun like that over on free your inner guru or with that community where it's like, listen to no other voices for 90 days. See, see what happens. You know, don't even listen to me, me, unless I'm telling you to listen to yourself. Right? I tell my clients that all the time. I'm like, don't ask me. Don't look on Google. The answers are inside. Yeah. Or even just to, but also knowing that it takes time and getting to that often requires support guidance. And so there's this flow between what's for me and what's on my own and where do I engage and reach out? I think that's partly why. And it becomes a journey then of self-expression, which becomes a journey of creativity. And creativity helps us to connect to our intuition and our younger, younger less in my case I have to guard against being jaded and cynical

from my experience it's easy for me to hang out there but there is also a treasure in that where it's like okay well if I'm feeling a little cynical right now there could be something here I need to look at maybe I am being handed a big pile of steaming crap, you know, dressed up as a gold nugget, you know, so you got to pay attention to that. We talk a lot about that pain that we feel on the betrayal of lies we were told about religion. Okay. And then we'll have, we had on a guest who said, oh no, no. So much beauty has come from that religion as well.

And it's all happened divinely how it's supposed to, and kind of sets me into that place of, okay, not going to be so resentful. And it's all about the way you choose to look at it. So it's always that perspective. You could have easily have turned your back to all of it. What kept you going? Like, what was it inside of you that didn't just say, oh my gosh, I'm never getting involved with anything like that again. I'm never going to a retreat. I'm never putting myself in the middle of these spiritual communities I'm never trusting a leader again and walking away there's a few ways to answer that the simplest way to answer it is to say because nothing else was working

right like I had reached a point where we were looking at moving back from Kelowna to Toronto. And our gym, it's still open, we started a bricks and mortar business, built it, grew it, sold it. And so it wasn't a failure. But it was excruciating, know in in many ways and so things were just they were harder than they could have been and so and I was in and out of therapy but not a lot I took up long distance running um that is a personal growth journey which I just restarted because I have yeah I did I ran one block yesterday and it was definitely a personal growth journey well I barely made it and I ran to the store my car it really ended up being we were moving back to Toronto I was like I don't want to relocate this consulting business a second time. You know,

I was back around where I was in 08, 09. I was like, I want to do something else. I was starting to become interested in connecting within again. I was learning to trust myself. And I guess, you know, even as I work it out now and try to tell it in less than 8 million words. It was that documentary coming along and that first initial interview of a very arduous day, then in front of a camera, answering really tough questions that kind of got me going again. And then I realized that, okay, here's the arrogance of me. I thought I was going to change the self-help industry from inside by showing up and doing things differently and not getting into all of what I would call smarmy tactics to sell and to promote. And I was going to stand as an example of a different way.

Well, guess what? Oh, wow. That's interesting. You know, see, I do believe in the personal growth journey. I'm, if you look at like, who am I? I'm a learner. I'm a grower. I'm a creator. I'm a speaker. I'm an artist. Like I'm deeply, I'm not religious at all can we add empath totally an empath yes yeah and I'm a really good business consultant so I thought that I could set up a different model and and and if I assuming that I would be successful, you know, model a different way, build something different. And it was only within the last few years that I realized that A, if it was meant to be, it would have been a heck of a lot easier than it has been. And B, I was doing it from some kind of sense of obligation. So it was still tied back to the sweat lodge and the power, as I have been shown by CNN,

by Wondery, the power is in the story. The story has value in and of itself. And that's when I was like, oh, okay, right. I meant to tell my story and whatever happens at minimum, I'm going to experience more healing and growth and pain. Cause as you said earlier, it's so hard to write. It really is. You have to go back and inhabit that space again. And no, who would ever want to?

Like, really? So the power is in the story. And I am personally under no obligation whatsoever to do anything to the self-help industry. And that's where we are right now. And even so much, I think it was almost a year ago today, because I remember we were on vacation. We know what kind of a year it has been

for everyone and I was standing on Hawaiian island talking to a friend of mine in Colorado saying basically how miserable I was and I think I need to burn it down and start over the wisdom in that what came out of that moment of exasperation where it's like I think I love coaching I love what it stands for when we're talking about personal transformation coaching I do think the industry is very diluted but I just saw in that kind of flash of exasperation that there's another. And it will actually be a way that makes me much happier, because it allows things like photography and writing, like we're coming full circle here. And going back on the journey in some ways that I did go on when I was that,

you know, me and my dog and my cameras, picking up from Toronto, moving out West and every single thing that I've picked up on this tremendous journey now is balling into that. I'm trying to write every day. I've been around Seth Godin a lot the last couple of years and did his creatives workshop. A daily creative practice was a part of that. And I found it very difficult to sustain through 2020 for the pandemic and and other reasons but it's something I aspire to because it pushes me to actually put together one coherent thought together with a photo that that is you know beautiful beautiful or, or not, and send it out as a quick blog. I've started printing a binder of the replies that I get from people thanking me and telling me what it's like to have me on the journey with them right now. And so I love that. Yeah. So I decided I'm Laura Tucker.com.

I'm going to show up as me. It's I, me. I love, gosh, I love this so much for so many reasons. I mean, I'm so big on sharing and just being you and your story and that's it. That's where my love is. That's where my passion is, is just being raw and being you. Probably talking to two people in the middle of it yourselves or anyone who's here in the podcast room with us like when the pandemic hit where pivot came up and I immediately made a podcast saying how put off I was with this whole hashtag pandemic pivot and because it felt like marketing like people had were dying and so it felt like this long, slow turn, you know, rather than a pivot. And maybe the pivot is just so freaking big that us on the outside, it feels like this long, slow turn. But that's how I've started thinking about this. It's like, what can I do every day to turn it a little, to turn it a little? Because if I, and I can get

bogged down in website design and projects, but if I stay with a practice of what can I do to either make a difference through creativity or words to create a podcast, to bring a part of of me into the world and this has been the the shift for me in this year and I'm still feel like I'm un-brainwashing myself because I think we're all brainwashed in this regards is that we feel we've been ingrained and indoctrinated to feel like anything that we might have to create or bring somehow that that's selfish. to the world, it's actually a generous thing and reframing it from a taking of attention to a giving of the work. And I didn't get to that. And I don't even know if I'm doing a great job at explaining that shift. It's not subtle and it's not just semantics.

And I even to this day have to remember that whether or not I publish, and this is my consistency has been my challenge, whether or not I publish consistently, it's like, is it really about me? And the fact that I have X, Y, Z obstacle to that this week, the selfish thing is to not do it. It to withhold it and and that's where I think it may be a woman thing but I feel like I've had a lot of contact and with men where it's the same yeah and I feel like there's a lot of people with a lot to give and express and say, and you don't have to leave corporate life to do it. I was toying around with thought about like, what if everybody's stayed?

What if we didn't all pull the pin and leave corporate life? And what if all the empaths and the creators and, you know, actually learned how to have a voice and actually stayed in to fix the thing. Oh gosh. We see that shift happening through our guests. We've had on like Kaylee O'Keefe. She wrote a book just about that. People staying in corporate, but taking the vulnerability and the authenticity and this journey that they've been on because of COVID and implementing it now into their big corporations and integrating the two because, you know, COVID has offered a look into people's homes, look into people's real lives. And it's opened this door now of more authenticity and vulnerability.

And so we're seeing that shift and wow, what a beautiful thing. And I love that you thought of that. Even like getting ready to speak to you today. So I actually have makeup on and a necklace. I put this necklace on. I used to wear a necklace every day. I got branded. I was like, I'm dressing up for the girls. It felt like an occasion.

I mean, your podcast is called Sense of Soul. And, you know, and that is huge. And we all need a sense of soul and you know and that is huge and we all need a sense of soul I do think we're at that that pivotal moment to not you know stay away from the word all the time I really do think that we have an opportunity in choosing how we show up as you know authentic human beings it's all perspective. I mean, I always say there's a blessing and a lesson in everything and COVID has been both, you know, it's been very difficult, but, and there's been a lot of really hard lessons in it, but there's been a lot of great lessons in it too.

And I think it really has opened up a door for people to think about what truly matters to them and, and making these small little turns on becoming their true selves, looking at what authentically matters to them and who they really are. So I appreciate you sharing that. The one thing I hear in your voice that we haven't talked about is forgiveness. I'm sure that was hard for you with your situation and forgiveness is a big one and a hard one for people to talk about. You had to do a lot of healing with forgiveness. I'm sure. Yes. Yes. And just the fact that I'm not recoiling from the subject is sign is a wonderful thing that I can celebrate. So yeah.

So forgiveness, a lot of people want to know if I've forgiven James Ray. And we actually ended up at a film festival together in Telluride in 2016. And I realized during that time, we were on a panel, we hadn't seen each other, you know, in seven years, I think at that point. And so that was very, that was very, very challenging. And yet, such a tremendous opportunity to be confronted and and confront and I was standing there fielding questions from the audience and I remember it now whoa big energy in the room whether it was the audience watching it or if it was it was myself my friend Julie Min who I've had on for Year and a Guru twice, the director of Enlighten Us, the movie, and James Ray. And I realized during that time of, I think it was three or four times that we had panels that I had forgiven him. And I realized it when I had a microphone in my hand, and an audience member asked me a question about what was happening.

And I just started talking about forgiveness. And so there again, talking about it and having it be in response of a genuine, non-sensational, authentic question. And I was feeling this in my body. I was like, oh my gosh, that's the moment I realized that I had forgiven him. And then I walked around that night a little bit outside of myself. Because that was it was a little it was a huge shift in my consciousness to be able to realize I've forgiven him. And the next thing in was, well, then it's time to start letting yourself off the hook yeah and it was harder for me to forgive myself than it was to forgive him and that was the moment that I realized that it was just like there in the mountains. And it was almost like I can feel it in my body right now. And there was just this sense of change and love that hadn't inhabited my body for a very long

time. But it came from not sitting down and writing a journal entry about forgiveness or it came from just staying in it you know and not giving up and I think that is my message is evolving but or continues to grow which should come as no surprise to me but it's like if you can just stay in it you know there were there were days in the beginning where i would wake up and i didn't know if i would survive the day quite literally i never verbalized it but i would lie there and just wish that i was i was dead and then i would get up and i would keep myself so busy from morning, noon to night that none of it could penetrate. Yeah. And it was like the same thing.

The groundhog day that you just never want to have. And you got to stay in it. So it sounds like that forgiveness almost set you free. I think yes you know like there was that that moment but there's also a commitment to it just what was it one time yeah no no you grace for yourself okay yeah and it's be interesting to look at that as a practice. Right. Because how I was just feeling speaking about that.

I haven't felt that in a long time. Right. Like it comes up from the ground. It's so powerful. Forgiveness is its ultimate connection to divinity. It's the closest you can get to that God source is when you forgive. There's something really powerful about it, especially for yourself. So one of my good friends was killed by another friend. I worked at Chuckie Cheese like back in the nineties and there was like the Chuckie Cheese massacre. And I mean,

I really liked him. It was really confusing for me. And maybe I don't think just because I was a child, because it still confuses me as an adult. When I think about it, it's so hard to have liked somebody so much that did something bad. And then like, I had this guilt, I had gone to the court. I was there in support of my friend that he killed. And when he walked in the courtroom, he like gave me a like, what's up with like his head. And I just was like, Oh my God, did anybody see that? Like, I mean, you know, does he think I'm here for him? I mean, I, it was so confusing. My heart was so conflicted because it was this person that I really liked who had done something very

bad and I felt bad if there was something in me that was like this guy was so nice you know how how how oh boy you know what I mean so that I think of that in terms of dissonance right like the dissonance on this guy that you liked being able and capable to do something that by every measure is causing harm and arguably or not even arguably deliberate right like yeah he did it the intent was there sounds like he was young you know where was his brain in terms of its evolution and maturity it doesn't even matter anymore like and that cognitive dissonance is what i resonate with from my experience in that sweat lodge my expectation was never that anyone would be hurt there was a whole bunch of what I thought

was hyperbole around the buildup to the sweat lodge, but there was like all kinds of drama and excitement around breaking a board with your hand, right? Like nobody is possible to hurt your, your hand breaking a board. Absolutely. But certainly certainly nobody dies so the dissonance on going into an event and the outcome being it's it's really hard to find I guess the only worst outcome is would be if more people died yeah and life presents us with those moments of dissonance to really, I think, cause us to ask questions. I used to say that everything happens for a reason. And I found that very difficult since the sweat lodge, because there's not a single cell in me that thinks that anyone needed to die for me to learn anything, right? Like, I do not see that event has divorced me

from that, that way of thinking. And to know, I don't feel any sense of loss over that. Because I don't really feel like every single thing has to have, everything is meaningful. But it doesn't have to happen for that reason. Because it implies that I couldn't have grown to be this version of me without it and really what we're all doing is becoming our true selves any series of events or catalysts could make us closer to our true selves and I really feel like for a lot of people this pandemic is the thing and i think so too and now it's time for break that shit down you're worth it if you're in struggle you're worth it it's worth doing the inner work. And you might be receiving messages from important people in your life or places or sources you give weight to that somehow make you feel like less than, and that might include you. That was certainly the case for me. You know, my core belief that I discovered was not worth the

effort. That was one of the first ones that I peeled back. And if anything, even just being able to hear myself speak to you and what I'm saying, it's worth staying in it. It's worth persisting. You want to be able to persist for the right things, which is a whole other conversation. But the clearer your connection to your intuition to your inner knowing or to your inner guru the clearer your path is forward and so you're absolutely worth it as I am

and as each of you are thank. Where can our listeners find you? Sure. There's two places online primarily now since I've split the podcast because that's a place for many voices and many leaders at freeyourinnerguru.com and across social media, freeyourinnerguru is the handle

or close enough, you'll find it. And then lauratucker.com has become a place of self-expression and that's where you're going to see me I'm showing up in the first person I me photography writing ideas and thoughts and the journey continues and if they subscribe then they will receive this writings and some of your photography in their email boxes yes and and over on free and yeah so over on that side I'm learning as I'm going so let that be an example for anyone who's learning anything as you're going but my goal is to express something each day and not be too tied to whether as soon as I start thinking it has to

be inspiring, boom, it shuts down. Right. So it's, it's a muscle like any other. And then over on free your inner guru.com is where the podcast is released and the leadership community is. And you have cool merchandise. Oh, thank you for seeing that. That's new. Yeah. I'm so happy with the hoodies and the shirts and some notebooks that have been made with my photography on them. I love it. I adore you. What you see is what you get with you. I mean, you're just as real as it gets. You're just authentic and you're careful about your words because you are so present and want everything that comes out of your mouth to be your true self.

And it's received very well. So thank you for sharing today. Well, thank you for, I think that's the highest form of compliment that I could receive. And what a pleasure. I love what you're doing. Thank you for creating the space to be able to just sit and be present with you. But I have also been told by one of my guests when we celebrate a conversation at the end, that the depth or the consciousness of the conversation can only go to where the host is at. So thank you for holding the space for me

to be able to come here and be all of me. I'm truly grateful for that opportunity. Well, and props to Nate for the introduction. Oh yes. Props to Nate. Thank you so much. Thank you. Many of our listeners have asked how they can support sense of soul podcast. You can now buy Mandy and I a cup of coffee by going to www.mysenseofsoul.com and go to the coffee fund. You can also take one of our many workshops or classes online. We love to meet our listeners and work with them. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.