Sense of Soul - Healing the Masculine Wound

Episode Date: December 10, 2021

We welcomed Robert Joseph on Sense of Soul Podcast, Robert is an author, speaker and men’s coach, and creator of the NATURE + SPIRITUALITY + MASCULINITY aka NSM method for men, a very simple and clear formula to guide the process.   After working in business and sales for over 15 years, Robert witnessed many men drifting away from their core and abandoning their strength. He developed the NSM method to help men find their purpose by connecting with spirituality and nature.  At the core of the belief, many men were indoctrinated into masculinity incorrectly which eventually becomes an inhibitor to reaching their potential in both career and relationships. When the personification of this false male image becomes extreme it can lead a downward spiral of failures, addictions and emotional distress. Robert is currently writing his first book to help men correct the misconceptions and social conditioning that harm their personal success and relationships. You can learn more about Robert  at his website www.robertjoseph.com IG @rjcoachingnyc Don’t forget to rate, follow and leave us a comment! Please go check out our Sense of Soul’s merch and workshops including Shanna’s CLEAR ancestry workshop and learn more about us @ www.mysenseofsoul.com! Exclusively NOW on Sense of Soul Patreon is the 777 Chakra Journey, 7 weeks 7 Chakras, beginning with the Root Chakra and ending at the crown at end of 2021!  You can also listen to Shanna’s mini-series about her ancestral journey, “Untangled Roots” and Mande’s mini series about her two NDE’s has begun.  https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Today on Sense of Soul, we have Robert Joseph. He's from New York. Robert is an author, a speaker and a men's coach who created the NSM method for men. After working in business and sales for 15 years, Robert witnessed himself and many other men drifting away working in business and sales for 15 years, Robert witnessed himself and many other men drifting away from their core and abandoning their strength. He developed the NSM method to help men find their purpose by connecting with spirituality and nature. At the heart of his work is the belief that men must reach their potential and fulfill a meaningful

purpose in order to be truly fulfilled in every aspect of their life. We are super excited to have Robert on today. Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. Hi, Robert. Hello. Hello. How are you doing? Hello. By the way, the logo, I mean, does that represent, I guess it does, all the chakras? Yeah. Yeah. I actually made it with my finger years ago. So simple. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for, for joining us today. And we appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited for this conversation. So where did this journey start for you? I mean, we always like to take it back real personal and find out like, who was Robert as a kid? Who was Robert as a teenager and an adult? And what got you here? for the listeners out there is, you know, sometimes when we suppress memories, there's a reason. And I found out much later in life, there was a reason why I couldn't go back before like

eight years old, nine years old is kind of where the cutoff happened. But as I began to do this inner work, the memories came back. And I was, I was a sweet, sweet boy that grew up with what I would say, stable parents. And they adopted my sister before I was born because they had trouble conceiving. And they got the pick of the litter. I'm being sarcastic. She, from the moment she came off the airplane, she was what I would call a quote unquote problem child. She was a challenge. She was a contract that my mother made in some lifetime before. And my sister came and she created just chaos. This was her role, so to speak, in the house. So as a result, my father and myself, me as a result of watching my father shut down, we just shut down. We didn't know how to deal with it. My

mother did everything. She was the dad. She was the mom. She was a disciplinarian. She was the therapist for my sister. And me and my dad just sort of like went into isolation, not even together. Like he went somewhere physically and mentally. And I went somewhere physically and mentally. That's how I sort of learned masculinity. Bless his heart. He's a beautiful man with a big heart, but he just didn't know how to cope. So as I grew up, that was my model for masculinity, right? Like I don't touch my emotions. I don't deal with stuff. I don't confront stuff. I run away and disappear. And this would play out in all kinds of relationships as I got older. And a fear of intimacy happened. And I'll get into a little bit more of that later. But

part of it was watching the feminine in my house, which I didn't trust because I had this chaotic sister and my mother who tried everything, including like physically hitting my sister. Like she tried everything. And I was scared. So as I got older, I was looking for women. I was looking for love and connection, but I wasn't quite sure how to accept it and receive it. So I remember vividly my high school prom. I used to get in a lot of trouble in school. So I asked this girl to the prom and the night before I called her up and I canceled and she's crying. And she's like, I bought my dress. I bought my shoes. What's going on? I said, the school won't let me go. I got into trouble, which was believable, but it was BS. Her father calls me.

It's like, my daughter's really upset. What's going on? And I just, sorry, I can't go. And that was it. And I use that story as an example of how disconnected I was from my heart, right? To do something so callous and not really have any regret about it. Fearful, right? Just fearful of receiving love from a woman because I really wasn't sure how to view it or get it as a boy.

And that grew up and relationship after relationship after relationship just blew up. And of course, I came up with great stories, but it was always me. I'm the common denominator, right? So that took me towards my late 30s, which is, I think, where most men, well, not most, any man that opens up to this path begins to awaken usually in their late thirties, early forties in my experience. So this is what happened with me. And I think it was one particular breakup that was tough that set the course. And I would say that that was spiritual opening. I think spiritual opening and spiritual awakening are very different because opening is you get a taste, you get a sense of some crumbs, but then you go back to your old ways. Right.

I like that. Yeah. So there was, there was openings that were happening. And I would say the awakening happened much more recently to that. Okay. But that was basically my trajectory is trying to find my way through the feminine, trying to learn my way and navigate through life, through the feminine, try to open my heart through the feminine, try to get validation from women. Right. And it wasn't until I found a tribe of men were probably within the last five years, men's work and my, the relationship with myself, where I started setting a different trajectory that didn't involve women, or at least didn't involve them in the same way. I can relate to that on completely the other side. I was always looking for validation from my father and then from men throughout my life. And I've actually

been doing a lot of work on that recently. You said common denominator. What is it that got you to a place where you were able to even look in the mirror to see that you were that common denominator? Yeah, such a good question, right? Like, you know, this whole concept of spirituality could be a pretty heavy conversation for a lot of people. I think they get overwhelmed, which is why I think a lot of men don't even start, can't speak for women. But to me, it's very simple. It's awareness. It's bringing awareness to the self. It's bringing awareness to the body, right? It's bringing awareness to the thoughts and beliefs. And it's seeing like, wait a minute, there's a pattern here. Why am I 42 and never got really that close to a long-term monogamous relationship, right?

Like, it's a good question. It's a question that we need to ask ourselves, whether you're a man or a woman. If your longest relationship, let's say, was six months and you're in your 40s, there's a question that we need to ask ourselves, whether you're a man or a woman, if your longest relationship, let's say was six months and you're in your forties, there's a question there that you need to ask yourself. So I was able to recognize that and start asking myself these questions. Right. And I think curiosity is the first step in spiritual awakening is like, what's going on here?

What do I feel on the inside? What am I scared of? Right. So to answer your question, man, it was, it was that it was like, why is it that all these women that are great? Like I'm not that guy that ever spoke anything bad about a woman. Right. I've always loved women in such a profound way, which is taking me to my work now, which I'll go into in a moment. But I mean, you know how people say there's no good women or no good men out there? To me, that blows my mind. I probably could have married 20 women in my lifetime and been happy. So the question was, why am I rejecting these phenomenal women? They're beautiful inside and

out. They're compassionate. They're kind. They're smart. They're stable. What's going on? So that started this journey of maybe there's some healing that needs to happen. And then, and I won't go into this now because I'm not sure it's the right time, but I did ayahuasca for the first time. And then that showed me the reason. I used it as a tool, right? I'm not, I don't have an opinion on psychedelics one way or another. If you're called to it, great. It could be a valuable tool. And for me it was because it awakened the trauma and that trauma, it was like, oh, okay, this explains everything. And now that I know it, I could heal it. Did you like Mandy and I find within that healing came that you had to find love and happiness within first before you were even able to look towards, you know, an opposite or a partner relationship? A hundred percent, Shanna. But for me, it even

started a step earlier, which was like, you got to heal. You got a lot of cleaning out to do. You got to clean out that body because there's stored emotion. There's stored and blocked energy in there. And you got to go inwardly. You got to go face yourself before you love yourself. And it might be dark and it might be scary. And it wouldn't show me the trauma. It showed me the narrative because it was like, you're not going to really be able to handle it. There's a reason why you block all those memories. So don't worry about the specifics and the who and the where and the when. Just know that this happened to you and it happened as part of a soul contract. And if you

could transmute this, you're going to be endlessly powerful and you're going to help a lot of people. And then that, to answer your question, that was the first step is like, okay, I'm going to go through this darkness, dark night of the soul, whatever you want to call it. And then that love starts awakening, right? That self-love starts awakening, that peace, that inner peace starts awakening. But I had to go through some really hard times and I went through it in solitude. I went upstate New York and I was called to this place.

And I went seven months in a cabin by myself with no interaction with anybody. Oh, my God. That's crazy. Yeah. And I mean, I can't even really verbalize it to you ladies. But what I released up there in the woods, sometimes like in the snow, right? For hours freezing at the top of a mountain. It wasn't even human. I mean, it was like the most primal, animalistic.

It wasn't even cries. It was whales, pain, like a dying animal. And it just didn't stop. It didn't stop. I mean, vomiting, screaming, crying. Right. And it was, it was like, you know, when they say you're releasing a demon. Wait, were you on ayahuasca the whole time? No, no, no, no. This was ayahuasca triggered it. And then I went up to the woods. I never left. I got an Airbnb to

integrate for three days. I never left. Oh, you're like the best Airbnb renter ever. Those people loved you. I signed a lease with a guy. You know, I was going to say two things. I'll never forget when I went to rehab for addiction and alcohol, they had us climb up into the mountains in Estes Park and individually just like scream out into the world, whatever it is we needed to get out. And I felt the same thing. I felt like this, something just released out of my body. It was very healing. And it looked like anger. It looks like tears. It looks like smiling all at once. And I kept saying, man, these people that live around Harmony House, the rehab, if they hear us and see us, they think we're fucking nuts. These kind of openings or awakenings happen for everyone differently. And for you, it was ayahuasca. You know, my son had a similar experience where he was doing some mushrooms and he went to this park

and this goddess came down and told him, you only respect the women that you have DNA with, that you're related to. You need to respect all women. And he said, it only respect the women that you have DNA with that you're related to, you need to respect all women. And he said, it was like the most profound thing. I mean, he's 22 years old, and he's telling me this. And I'm like, that is such a beautiful message. And of course, it was a lot deeper than that. But, you know, these messages meet people where they're at, and where they can grasp it. Yes, yes, it's so beautiful. Because really, I believe it's our higher really, you know, I believe it's our higher selves, you know, coming through to us. It's the truth that we already know that's

just buried. And I love that your son got that message, Mandy, because it happened to me too. I was doing a mushroom psilocybin journey and it started showing me women, all types, tall, short, dark, light, fat, skinny. And I'm smiling. And they're just coming like a Rolodex, you know, kaleidoscope of women. And I'm smiling. I'm like, wow, all so beautiful. Right. And then it starts showing me birth.

It started showing me the love that my mother has for me and the love that all mothers have for their children. And my body was elevated. It was like I was levitating. I never felt anything like that in my life. And I don't even know if men understand this really. People tell me all the time, it's hard to be a woman. And I'm like, sure, you got to go through labor and menstruation and menopause. I get it. from the outside looking in, it looks really hard. However, there's nothing I could do, nothing in life. I can build a tall skyscraper in the world. It doesn't replace being able to bear a child. So it's like, that's your gift. That's your trade-off, you know? And so beautiful beautiful because i got a taste of it through this

journey and then god said to me i believe it's god speaking through me or my higher self or whatever you want to call it and it said uh you're going to help women you thought you were here to help men and you are but you're here to help women because the same door in is the same door out meaning there's so many women that have been, let's say, sexually abused by a man. And there's all other forms of trauma that could happen. But a lot of this is done by the hand of a man, right? And women, God bless their hearts because they do this much better than men. They go find help. And a lot of times they find their sisters and that's great. But for things like that are so sensitive,

that are so deeply ingrained, the harm that's caused by a man can only really be corrected by a man. This is the message I got, right? So metaphorically speaking, the same hand that does the damage is the same hand that does the correction. So now I'm doing body work on women and it's terrifying to me. I'm very new to it. It's terrifying because it's such a sensitive thing. And in the past I would use my gifts for trying to sleep with women. Let's say it was never really good at it because it wasn't true to who I was, but I was, I would just say I was very good at it, but I wasn't good at completing the task, let's say, because it was a lie. But now it's like, okay, you're going to help women. And the message that your son got is the same thing.

It's like, we got to start respecting each other, men and women. I was just going to say, you posted something on your Instagram recently that was exactly that. I was trying to pull it up. It was like, to love a woman, you must love all women. To love a man, you must love all men. Yes. Yes. I believe that, you know, because if we're saying masculinity is toxic, game over. If a woman is saying masculinity is toxic, are you really going to find the soulful, beautiful man? You already have this giant generalization blocking any sort of intimacy. And I think there's a direct correlation to that. And the same thing with men. This is all types of sub-community. I don't know how familiar you are

with some of these subcultures of the men's work, but there's like red pill communities, there's pickup artists, there's men that are so hurt and bitter towards women because they've been, let's say, divorced or they just never had any luck with women and they feel invisible. So they now objectify women. But doing this work, I know it's a fundamental lie. I know every person wants the same thing, right? We all want love and connection. And when we are putting up these facades, which is like, I'm going to sleep with as many women as possible, or I'm going to reject all women or all men. It's just the ego trying to protect us. It's fear, you know?

So when we love and this concept of love, and you were talking about it earlier, Shana, right? It's like, yes, self-love for sure but we are so myopically focused on romantic love in this western culture like i am not validated or complete until i meet a partner that will spend the rest of my life with me and it's like great that's part of it but we need to love everything and everyone, including ourselves. Then we've made it. When the cockroach and the butterfly are the same, when the sewers of New York and the sunsets of Colorado are the same, you've made it, right? This is the spiritual journey. There's no distinction. Everything is one. Everything is connected. Everything is beautiful. Everything is love.

Meditation is not just crossing your legs every morning for 20 minutes and closing your eyes. Meditation is life. Love is meditation, right? This is a way of living that we're talking about here. Yeah. You know, I think our culture and the way it's set up for marriage and relationships is really kind of doomed that connection with ourselves. I mean, I remember when you were saying about how, you know, we look for, you know, our partners to almost complete us. I mean, I used to hang on the words of Tom Cruise in that one movie when he was like, you complete me. And I was like, Oh my God,

I must find someone to complete me, you know, but really, truly, I wish someone would have told me I was already whole. I couldn't say it better myself. It's like the way I look at it. I just installed a TV in my house. I didn't have a TV for a long time. Oh God, don't do it. I know. And install it. But I watch it. I know you're right. I don't watch it much, but I was thinking about this because I was having trouble sending it up.

The guy says to me, well, you know, you just got to reset it, reset it to factory settings. And I was like, oh're right. I don't watch it much. But I was thinking about this because I was having trouble setting it up. The guy says to me, well, you just got to reset it. Reset it to factory settings. And I was like, oh, okay. That's a good analogy for us, right? We are already whole. We just forgot. So what is spiritual awakening? It's remembering.

It's unlearning. That's all it is. People come to me as a coach and they're like, I want to learn about spirituality. I want to take your course. I don't do courses. I don't even make to learn about spirituality. I want to take your course. I don't do courses. I don't even make money off this stuff. That's not my Dharma.

But I'm like, coaching for spirituality is not what you think it is. So if you sign up for this, it's very different. You need to be willing to get naked, right? You need to be willing to go backwards, not forward. You want to read books on spirituality? Fine. That helps early stages. You're a spiritual seeker. The real spiritual awakening to me is freedom. It's releasing everything that you thought was true. That's all an illusion. Your beliefs that cause separation,

your opinions, all these things, these external factors that affect you and are embedded inside you, release them. I've always been such a hopeless romantic i mean i'm serious i grew up watching like you know all the old movies like thorn birds and the original romeo and juliet breakfast at tiffany's and you know the big scenes at the end with all the happy endings and all of the disney movies you know i just just, I've always been like that. I've always wanted to be that princess that had that Prince Charming. And it's just so conditioned in her head that that's the way it's supposed to be the masculine and the feminine. And, you know, I am the damsel in distress and I'm looking for my Prince Charming to come and save me from myself,

I guess, you know, really, I, I, I'm wondering what that saving is about, but yeah, I mean, cause we're in fear, right. Cause women are in fear. So men are going to save us. It's a lot of pressure on both sides. Yes. It's a tremendous amount of pressure on both sides. And I think like, we don't know our quote unquote responsibility, right? Like, yeah, men do want to protect and women do want to be protected to some degree, right? Like our, our anatomies explain that, you know what I mean? Like the certain things that I don't, most things I don't know, but I only speak from a place of truth. And when the truth is, it's like, I'm bigger and stronger than you. That's just the reality physically, physically. Let me make that clear. Right. So, so there's a biological element that we can't ignore, which is, you know,

I want to feel safe around a man. I want a man with broad shoulders and height, because I want to feel safe. If something goes goes down because stuff could go down in this modern world quickly. And if your man can't be dangerous, then you're not going to feel safe. Right. And so so as a man, I want to do that. I want to protect. I want to provide. And as a woman, if you want to feel secure around man and feel provided for, I don't think there's any shame in that. I think what's happening now is people are becoming so independent that they're rebelling against some of these things. And that's okay. But what happens is I was on a podcast recently and the woman who was certainly leading with this question, because you felt it was like, do you think women have gone too

far? And I'm like, what do you mean too far? She's like, you know, these career women that have, you know, worked their way to the top. And I was like, this sounds like a trap question in my mind. So let me tread lightly here. And I said, you know, anybody could go too far, right? Going too far means what you think you want is that conflict of what you really want. And when you get to the top of the mountain, you realize that what you think you want is

not really what you want. You've lied to yourself for a long time. So when I talk to people who are a little confused about these roles or reject some of these masculine or feminine truths to some degree, it's like, well, how do you feel? Right. How do you feel being this independent, strong woman that doesn't need a man? If you feel good, then great. If you feel like something's missing, then maybe it's time to get back in touch with

your femininity. And maybe it's time to reconsider your relationship with the masculine in a healthy way. Right? So I don't know if that sort of addresses what you said, but I do see a lot of confusion right now in relationships. And a lot of it, I feel like comes from some sort of block, like the same block that I had, which was like this conflict with the feminine that I couldn't figure out for 40 years. Right. I was unsuccessful because my, the way I learned about the feminine or the way I interpreted the feminine

was, what's the word I'm looking for? A little dysfunctional. I had to work through that. So you use the word unsuccessful when in fact you were actually very successful when it came to like the materialistic, the job, the life, right? So you were a very successful salesman, but as far as the soul, you felt unsuccessful, correct? Yeah, and what else matters? It goes back to what I was just saying about the woman. It's the man, the same thing, right? How many men have devoted their entire life to their career

and then they're just unfulfilled because their relationships in many ways, these men that are ultra successful, a lot of times have problems in their relationships from my own experience, coaching men. So it's like, what really matters? Like, this is the beautiful lesson of death is like, especially when someone like Kobe Bryant bryan or i don't know michael jackson there's someone that is like universally known there's always a lesson because we realize we're all connected and we're all the same no one's different and kobe bryan died with his daughter so every father in the world was like oh my god maybe i need to reconsider the relationship with my daughter because life is precious right so like it like it takes a lot, a lot of times the,

the warning of death or death itself to, for us to realize this, but nothing else really matters. Money, success, women, like what, what other pleasures or rewards that you could throw at somebody? How much more proof do we need to know that this stuff doesn't work? The only thing that matters is love. This is the big secret, right? You know, I had like such an egotistical thought right before we hopped on, like literally seconds before we got on, Shanna texted me that her daughter just purchased her own car and how excited and happy she was. And you want to know what my first thought was? I was like, fuck yeah. That's how we want to raise our girls. We don't need no man's fucking money. And then I was like, wait a minute. That is like a serious

resentment you've got going on in there. That was not coming from a place of love, Mandy. You need to look at that because that's not what I want to teach my daughters, you know? And it was interesting that that's immediately where my thought went. That is interesting. You know what? I mean, you, we don't need anyone else's money to be honest, but like I had told my partner just last night, I wouldn't be able to even do this podcast if it wasn't for him, you know, helping to provide for me. And I also saw it in the way of not like thanks for being that financial person, but it was more like you're part of a bigger purpose. You know, we all are. You're part of my journey. I'm part of yours. It's just a bigger picture.

I just saw it in such a divine way other than me, just like my mom at home, cooking and cleaning, taking care of kids. It was pretty neat for me to kind of have that realization for myself. It's such a beautiful realization too, because like for the listeners out there, we got to rewind. Like when we talk about provide, we're not talking about in a superficial sense, right? Like I'm the man, I make the money. No, it's like we could all be financially independent, but what we're talking about is providing a masculine presence, right? And we're not just talking heterosexual relationships, right? A masculine energetic presence, which we can't give ourselves fully.

I could give myself feminine energetic love, but not fully, not the way you can for me, right? So this is like this beautiful dance that happens where we need each other. We compliment each other. We're not opposing forces. We're not like, I'm going to give myself everything that I need. You can, you could give yourself love and you are already complete, but from a sexual nature, from a polarity, from a relationship with another human being, my energy is going to be very different than yours.

And that's by design. That's how creation starts. The more polarity, the more sexual tension, the more likelihood of creating life, right? So like just honoring that and not opposing it. And trust me, ladies, like I understand why there's opposition. Like I look outside in New York City and there's a lot of women that are overtly independent that have what I feel to be some blocks towards the masculine. Of course, of course, one in four women are sexually abused.

How many women have had sex against their own will? How many women come from homes where the father wasn't around? So you're talking about deep rooted trauma done by men, right? Like this is just the reality of it. I'm not hating on men. Working with energy and having hundreds of clients. One thing I have found shocking is that how many have been to men too. Yes.

Because women have been more, you know, open with it. But I tell you, I have been more you know open with it but i tell you i have been very shocked i'd say in my practice almost just as many well thank you for bringing this up so what i talked about earlier and we could probably do three podcasts together you know for real yeah that real that what the ayahuasca showed me was that, right. So, so that was my cross to bear my trauma to solve, to heal. Right. And thank you for sharing because that's what people need to do. You know, I wish that I had, uh, you know, someone to say, Hey, this guy shared that with, with some of my clients, because a lot of them don't speak about it because no one talks about it and shares it with each other. Well, yeah, exactly. So this is the, when we talk about like

men's work, what is men's work? It's like, well, men need to get together and talk about shit because we don't talk about our emotions and emotion is not a man, masculine or female thing. It's a human thing. Like, and without the expression of our emotion, we're robots. We can't function. And the emotions will get stored and it'll get tied up and we'll get sick and we'll get kidney stones and we'll get heart attacks. And this is what men do. We die early. Right. So it's like, yeah. So now you've got the sexual trauma, which I think statistically is one in five. So to your point, almost as many men as women are sexually abused and often by the hand of a man.

Right. So men are not going to talk about it as openly as women. I know it's hard to speak about for anybody, but men, I didn't cry for 25 years. I made up for it in the woods. But we don't we stifle and suppress and ignore and distract right so and now you bring up something that's probably arguably the most sensitive thing anybody could talk about they're gonna they're not they're gonna pretend it didn't even happen which is even more deep i've had people you know cry for the first time with me and not even be able to leave because it was so powerful for them to get it out. Once it turned on, you know, they couldn't turn it off.

And I felt so happy that I was able to create that space for them to be able to release that. I'll never forget, you know, how those were in very impactful moments of my life that made me view men differently. Yeah. Yeah. It's very important work. It's sensitive work, but it's so important.

And I was on a date recently with a girl and she says to me, we were talking about some of his body work. Cause I experienced a lot of body work. Right. And she goes, when that thing is inside you, that thing, do you think it has to leave the body? And I said, I thought about it for a minute. And I said, yes, absolutely. It has to leave the body, right? Because if it stays in the body, you could have catastrophic results. Or, and when I say catastrophic, I'm not talking about like a sudden, you know, heart attack. I'm talking about like living your life with this thing inside you that's calling the shots for the rest of your life, because you didn't get to the root of it and heal it.

So, and we all have something, I believe we come into this world with some sort of puzzle that we need to figure out some mystery we need to demystify. And we all have something and I believe we signed contracts before we came here. But we got to get to it. We got to get to it. Hey, did you know that Sense of Soul now has a Patreon where you can get exclusive episodes, mini series that Mandy and I have been working on for a long time that we can't wait to share with you. Monthly readings, Sense of Soul sacred circles, workshops, behind the scene clips and much more. Hop on Sense of Soul Patreon right now and sign up. You know what I was just thinking about that's important to, I think for our listeners to know is especially men that have a hard time with expressing their feelings with

words that, and the women too, but we know men struggle with it more. That's why what Shanna's practices as a Reiki master is such a beautiful tool that they can use as well, because what she's talking about and what she did and what she was bringing out of these clients as a release, they didn't have to sit across from the therapist and talk it all out and read, you know, it was, it was just done energetically on an energetic level. So a lot of people don't want to go talk to a therapist. They don't want to have to do the EMDR where they have to talk about it and release it from their

mouth. So that's why also this energy work can be so beautiful for people and such an amazing option. I'm going to be more Mandy, like the body work is to me, we hadn't had it figured out the reason why i think talk therapy took so long in the past because it was talk therapy right now people are starting to wake up to realize like you can't really do talk therapy without getting into the body viscerally and releasing this energy and it's becoming more prevalent which i'm really happy to see. But the body speaks such a different language, right? It's speaking in sensations. It's not even speaking in emotions. I was just about to say that.

Yeah. Sometimes there's no language either. There's no words for what you have experienced. You don't even know how to fit those words into this box of words that was created for us to use. Vocabulary just really fucks a lot of things up because I was also thinking about masculine and the feminine really scares people because they don't understand it because those words are being defined in so many different ways. I mean, I've said those things like out loud to men who say they immediately think like it's a bunch of feminists and that the feminine arising.

No, you guys, this is an energy. These are two energies that we all have within. And so I think it's kind of misunderstood. Would you agree? Totally. 100%. I think labels create more confusion. i'm with you i went to a retreat you ever go to a salon in california and big sir it's a beautiful spiritual tree it's like where a lot of like the eastern philosophy came to the west anyway i went to this retreat a men's retreat and it was all about awakening the feminine it was the title of it, right? And it was a good weekend. And at the end of the weekend, I said, look, guys, good job. However, I think you confused a lot of people here. Because anytime you say to a man, you got to be more feminine or you got to awaken the feminine.

They're going to run for the hills. Because if you were an outcast as a child, you were a sissy or pardon my French, a pussy, right? So immediately you were identified as a female. So moving forward, as we grow older, as men, like we don't want our identity to be now crossed over to the feminine. Now, I agree with what you're saying, Mandy, like a hundred percent. These are just energies within us.

But the minute we start saying women, you know, masculine or men, feminine, like 100%. These are just energies within us. But the minute we start saying women, you know, masculine or men, feminine, like we start getting confused. So I like using the word integrated, just being an integrated human being, you know, being full, like understanding that. Yeah, you could live here and you could live here, right? One without the other, you're in trouble. And most guys are here. They don't know what it's like to live in their heart. And we need more conscious Kings in the world. We really do. Because when women come here to do energy work, I'm just here. I'm not saying anything pretty much. I'm just here listening and scanning the body to see what the body wants to tell me, right? I'm just here. And they need to feel safe in my presence. They need to feel heard. They need to feel held. They need

to feel listened to. And if every man could wake up to this and just be centered and strong and calm and loving in their hearts, the world would be a better place. And like I said, I love men. You know, I love being a man. But when I look at the problems in the hearts, the world will be a better place. And like I said, I love men, you know, I love being a man, but when I look at the problems in the world, a lot of it is caused by men. And I'm carrying this, this pain, this ancestral stuff that I, that needs to be corrected from lifetimes before lifetimes before you talk about tens of thousands of years, this goes back, you know, and we're trying to make a big course correction. It requires a lot of work. Yeah. You know, seeing that, you know, in Afghanistan, they're going back now to, you know, suppressing the women again. I mean, these women have been

living, they've been able to take off their burqas. They've been able to, you know, let their daughters go to school and to see now that they're going to be put back into their homes and hidden. It's, I think it's triggering. It triggered a lot for me, at least where I was like, I was so, I'm so sad for them. I'm so angry. Of course, obviously the violence too, but I'm like, holy shit. Like where did these men get this? What part of their religion makes them think it's okay to treat these women and these girls like this? I mean, they are the ones that are, you know, able to give birth and keep giving them life. It doesn't make sense. What do you think that is? Culture. That's the way their culture has been forever though. I think that we here in America should be very happy that we have evolved

to the place of for women over here. comes to my mind too is like the fear you know men are so afraid of like a woman fully liberated like men are so afraid of like a woman's sexuality and the potential of that you know especially in these cultures that are just living in many cases in the dark ages you know know, but the respect, the honor, and just the equality, not just like we talk about equal pay and all that. And sure, that's the superficial stuff, but like the equality that you are a sentient being, I am a sentient being, we both have the same desires, the same needs, right. And we're both equally sexual. And the myth that we're not is like, it's only hurt us it hasn't helped us you know and i

think in those countries like a lot of it comes to sexuality like you wear the burka so men's minds can stay calm because god forbid you started wearing yoga pants over there in afghanistan the men would lose it right well so would the priest in lou. That's right. At my mother's church. And I told her I was going to speak out on this shit. This priest got up and blamed the 15-year-old girls at confirmation for not wearing the appropriate dresses that he sinned because of them. And that all the men and young men in the congregation sing too because of the way they were dressed and that not one of them was dressed appropriate out of like 100 girls putting still here which is outrageous yeah it still happens here in a different way just the

way like racism here happens more covertly than it does in other places you know we're also seeing this shift right now that's making a lot of people uncomfortable and especially like the older generations, these younger generations who I believe are like the crystal children and they're so open-minded and they're not buying into these conditions. And I think we're going to see a huge shift happening in the future. I agree with you. It's pretty obvious to see how things are. I'm sorry, my dog is barking in the background. Forgive me for a second. Wait, hold on. I picture it being like a massive mountain dog. It's like a Siberian husky or something. I don't know if you can see him in the distance here.

You see his face popping out? It's a little tiny poodle. No, he's jerking. I just got him two weeks ago. He's adopted. I think he's a boxer, Rhodesian rich hound. He's a good boy. I love boxers. Where I live in Brooklyn, everyone is like gender neutral, you know, and you see it everywhere.

Like to find a mass, a quote unquote, masculine man in my neighborhood is very hard. So everyone's like fluid. Everyone's a draw. This is like the next thing. And, you know, I'm not going into like an old man syndrome if we didn't have this body, I mean, we don't have a gender. So, I mean, if we are evolving from all of these lives, which I do believe that we do, and we have all these past lives, like how much is coming with us? And maybe it is that the more we've evolved, the more masculine and feminine we've carried

with us. I agree. You know, and maybe it's a transition period, right? Like if we're just talking out loud, maybe like this balance of energy, sometimes you've got to be imbalanced to be balanced, right? So some of the guys are like tipping this way, right? But that's good because they're becoming aware of this feminine energy within them. And then maybe at some point it'll be a bit more balanced. I don't know, right. But there's there's a shift happening. And when I think of like spiritual awakening on a collective level, we're in like a puppy dog phase, in my view, awakening. We're coming.

We're waking up in the middle of the night. It's pitch dark out. We're in a deep slumber and we're bumping our heads. But it's good because we woke up. You know, there's this photo floating around that's gone viral of her last name's Guy. She was a soldier that was killed in Afghanistan. And I think it's interesting that there's one of a man holding a baby, an Afghan baby, and then there's one of her holding the Afghan baby as a soldier.

And the one of her is the one that's gone so viral because I think it speaks to a lot of volume. They're connecting it to that femininity. Like she's a woman holding a baby, yet she's in a uniform. But also at the same time, why is this man holding the baby not as meaningful to people? I don't know. It was just something I was kind of thinking about. That's a powerful question. You know, like what comes to my mind sometimes is like, trust. I just wrote a book. It's a very short book. I had this vision. I work with

inner city kids whose fathers are incarcerated. And I spent a lot of time in these communities in the Bronx and in Queens. Invariably, you hear stories of all the kids in the communities where the fathers just aren't around. And it's not always they're in jail, but whatever. So I wrote this book. It's called Before You Leave. And I'm writing it, publishing it anonymously. It's like 11, 12 chapters, really straightforward stuff. And I just want to drop it in these inner cities, just boxes of these books and have men read them. And maybe one guy will change his mind and mission accomplished. But the point is, there's something in men, not all men, of course, it's not a generalization, but it's easier to leave their families. It's easier to walk away.

It's less likely to hear a woman abandon her children than it is a man leaving. So I wonder when you see a man with a baby, like if there's this imprint in the mind, that's like, wow, that's a connection, but it's not the same connection from a mother to a child, you know? So it doesn't hit us the same way. And I want to change that because the fatherly love is imperative, not just for our own, but for each other. I mean, you know, I could father myself. I could father the men in my community. I could father women that come here who have trauma, that I could just be that masculine presence. So it's really important that that conscious king, that father energy is coming

from a divine conscious place. Being from Louisiana and the French Creoles, and I did all this ancestry work. One of the things I discovered was after slavery was over, all of the harsh laws that became a thing. And in doing my ancestry and working on my tree, I found that some of my ancestors were in prison forever for like the most ridiculous things. And then I put two and two together that literally that's what they're doing. They were so butthurt that they were free, that they would, they would have these really super ridiculous laws and they were put in jail. Sure. You know, like you said, like it's ancestral, right? And like these imprints are so deep in our subconscious that to touch them, we got to spend a lot of time in silence, you know, and doing that self inner work. Like I said,

the unconscious decisions we make, which is probably 90% of them. So if my father left the family, then I'm more likely to leave. If my father touched me inappropriately, I'm more likely to touch. So these patterns and these cycles are so powerful and we don't control them. They control us until we get back in the body

and say, I'm going to be that man or I'm going to be that woman to break this cycle. The minute you make that contract with God, you are on the way. That's like Shanna's favorite saying. This stops with me. Do you know that there was a book the other day I sent to Mandy about the little kid, about the parent, the dad being in jail or something like that. That was the name of the book.

I was like, I'm glad that the books have changed to more real events, right? That actually happen in children's lives. And they're not all fairy tales. I'm glad that, you know, that there's lots of books about bullying and like real shit because I lived my life in my head around fairy tales and was pretty shocked when it got into the real life. And I was like, this is stressful. I could totally relate to that. It's like, you know, something happens to us. Let's address it. Like if I'm not a parent yet, but like something happened to my kid. Cool. Let's talk about it. Let's get it out. Let's,

let's bring this thing to the surface because the more you ignore it, the more it just causes, it causes distortion in the body. And then, and then again, that distortion is going to lead you around on a string for the rest of your life. So yeah, I agree with you. Like, you know, bullying is a problem. Let's talk about bullying bullying let's write books about it let's do ig lives on it let's talk about this because otherwise this thing's going to get embedded in our collective consciousness the next thing you know you have kids that were bullied as kids grow up to be adults that shoot up schools yeah that i love that whole saying like don't bleed on the people that didn't cause your cut. Yeah.

And so you have to bring awareness to it and talk about it. I love, oh my God, I love that you work with these inner city kids that don't have fathers. So what do you do with these kids? You just hang out with them? Do you go to baseball games? Do you play? Do you do a little bit of everything? Do you try to just have some authentic conversation with them about how they can stop these patterns or, I mean, what do you

do? Sure. You know, the, the last point is probably the most sensitive, right? Because it's like, it's, it's a little more subtle. It's not like, Hey, how's things with your dad? It's like, you try to build that relationship and that trust. So they start opening up to you. And in the meantime, we just go on adventures and have fun. And I'm there as someone that's consistent and reliable for them, which is really important, right? Because you see it like in these young boys, it's amazing. Like they will not go there. They just won't talk about it. So from an early age, boys are taught, you know, don't cry, you know, don't go't go no we don't talk about the emotional stuff be a man right so it's so embedded in us that at that young age we create these habits

and then we grow up and we never ever deal with our issues and this is why men you know cause a lot of damage so anyway uh it's beautiful to have this relationship, but how do you reverse these things? If a man is, like I said earlier, if every exposure you had to a man at a young age was a difficult one or an abusive one, then you got to spend time in the presence of healthy men to feel that not all men are this way right and it's it's not as easy as it sounds especially when you're a teenager or you're in your 20s and you don't have this level of awareness but breaking the pattern and seeking out these people or calling these people into your life is really important we had a guy on um he has his own he has a podcast as well his name is joe bryan and he's very vulnerable about you know his struggles with sexual abuse and um his journey and crying and like what you're saying maybe you should check that podcast out and it's pretty amazing it really

was very very raw and vulnerable but he told a story about how he went to like this like support group or something for that. And, and he's telling his story and he can't believe he's sharing it like with everybody. And, and this big burly, huge, like biker dudes, like me too, man, just, he's like, don't hug me, don't hug me. It just was so like beautiful. Cause I mean, it doesn't, it, you know, it doesn't just happen to one type of person. Right. I mean, like, even if you grew up in a, in a beautiful predominant family, it can happen to you. It can happen to you. If you don't have any money, it can happen to anybody in any city. It's, you know, trauma is not picky.

It's so true. And, you know, I'm going to say something that's probably a little controversial, but I feel it's a need to say it. The trauma that we have that happened to us, as you evolve through it, you realize it's a gift. And I know that would be very hard for some people to digest and I get it. But now that I've gone through it, I realized that I am a lion now because of the way I transmuted that pain. I am a king, whereas before I was at best a prince. So when we have this trauma, if you're willing to face it and you believe that you can overcome

it, on the other side is the limitless you, the you in your fullest potential. You overcome something, right? Otherwise, we're entitled, right? Maybe we don't have the same level of awareness. It goes back to what we were saying earlier about being in New York City or New Orleans and going through this stuff and you come out of it, if you could come out of it, you could come out of it stronger. And how many have you helped? You know, how many from the one situation that may have happened to a person, maybe I've helped thousands of people. You know what I mean? I, I feel like, yeah, unfortunately, and I do believe in slow contracts as well. So, um, you know, we take, you take your pain and make it your purpose. Kind of thought it was what Mandy and I believe. Beautiful. Beautifully said.

I just had one more question. What is this book going to be called? This short little book you're putting together and may I get a copy of course it's good so it's called before you leave it's gonna be like i said anonymous and short and easy to read and digest awesome i love it yeah it just kind of raises awareness of like what yeah what will happen when you leave what's what you're gonna leave behind and it's real yeah so think about it and then i'm thinking about doing like a series like before you touch right before you touch your child before you touch your nephew your niece think about what's going to happen you're going to set a ripple effect through the universe right so think about it first read this book quick right anonymous there's judgment. There's no cover on the book. It's a blank. You know what I mean? Like it's, it's going to be really private. It's not meant for Amazon bestseller list. Right. Hey Robert, how do you feel about forgiving?

I think, you know, I mean, we never forget, but do you have to forgive? I mean, how do you feel about that? Yes, you have to, you're not healed unless you forgive. So I was shown who my abuser was. And at first I was really angry. And now I love him more than I loved him before. And it's not even close. And if I couldn't say that to you confidently, I haven't healed.

Do you, and is it because of something? Did he give you the apology that you needed? Did you see him face to face? Or was this forgiveness you could find without him even being in the picture? The latter. It's almost like I got friends that are like, I got to go back to my ex and get closure. It's like, you don't need closure from her. You could get it yourself.

Yeah. We also have to create space for the masculine and the masculine has to create space for the feminine so I found myself kind of watching my my husband and like my child interact and then I see that there's these feelings flowing and I'll step in and take over and start helping my child come up with the right words or even like stepping in almost to protect them or stepping in and speaking for him. Like that's just one example I came up with. Or, you know, instead of always being the one that changes the baby's diaper, letting the man step in and do it. So we have to be cautious to creating those spaces for each other's energies

and get out of, and get out of those conditioned routines that we've been put into that we've learned. But I would also say, and tell me if you guys don't agree, is that just like you want to write a book that says before you touch for someone to bring awareness to the conditions how you were raised you know you're treating your child that way for someone to step in to bring awareness to that it's very tough very tough but you know as a mother if I saw a familiar pattern from, say, a partner of mine that was abused, oh, the fuck, I will step in.

You know what I mean? I will definitely step in and bring awareness right away. Yeah. I mean, this whole idea of creating space is interesting because I think this whole conversation centers around that right I want to talk about like spiritual awakening and what does that mean like we said it's unlearning it's creating space you feel tired you feel lethargic you feel sad you feel depressed you feel anxious yeah the body is cramped the body is constrained free space for yourself and then free space for others. Because like, like I said earlier,

how do you know you're there? Right. And I don't think you're ever there, you know, but like how you know you're on the path, let's say is a better way of putting it when other people's actions don't bother you, I think is a really good indication that you're on the path. Like you're not reacting to people, you're accepting them. Like I accepted my abuser. It's like, well, he did the best he could. He was, he was in pain. He was hurt. I understand that. I could feel that I am. We say in men's work, your work is my work. Your pain is my pain. You know? So I know what a wounded man does. A wounded man hurts other people, hurt people, hurt people. Right? So if I look at it from that place of empathy, then I could forgive and I could create space in my heart. And when we create space in our heart, we could start living life the way it's supposed to be lived, right? Like this is a great

adventure. This is a gift. Everywhere we look, you live in Colorado, right? Like the mountains, the lakes, the rivers, Like I live in New York. I walk down and I look at the skyline and I'm like, Jesus, I am a lucky person. We are lucky to be here. There's seven and a half billion people on the planet. And the three of us are having a conversation right now. If that's not a miracle, I don't know what is. Yeah, it is a miracle.

The only thing that we can really truly do is work on ourselves. You know what other people do? I love how Mandy always says it's not our business. Sometimes I feel like I'm extreme on that, but truly I'm just working on myself. So, you know, really whatever you do is none of my business. And who's watching, right, Shanna? Well, I used to. Right, right.

You know, I used to be obsessed with you know whatever one else was doing and that took away from my own life I mean yes yes but it's amazing it's like you know when when all this stuff was going on at the early pandemic I was very confused and it took me a while to really like process my thoughts on this. And then my final realization was I could go and march on the streets and do all this stuff, or I could just focus on what I could control, which is myself. That is it. You change yourself, change your family,

change your family could change a community, change a community, change the city. That's how it works. We can't go and try to solve systematic problems within government that have been embedded there for hundreds of years they will always be tyrannical you know but by when we change ourselves then it creates a ripple effect for those close to us and that's how the world changes because imagine everybody took that personal responsibility today right now in this moment that's how the world changes yeah Yeah. Raise those strong daughters that can buy her own car and support that, you know, your older, your son in expressing his emotions,

just as he should. Yeah. Starts here. You're right. On your website, you have this journey that you walk people through and it's seven steps. It's right. On your website, you have this journey that you walk people through and it's seven steps. It's reversion, personal responsibility, recalibrate, redesign, goal planning, action and progress, entertainment. Now, is this like a workshop that men join, women? Talk to us about this. Not really. I mean, right now what I'm doing is men's groups. So I'm leading men's groups. I bought 56 acres upstate as of two weeks ago. So I'm building a community, a healing center for men and women. Now, I can't believe that came that came into my field, but it's real.

So we're building that center and we're bringing tribes together of men, you know, different chapters of men's works where we're, we're allying, forming alliances. So there's a revolution happening. I think it's early stages, but men are waking up and, and I'm a, I'm just a general in this, right. I'm just one of the guys that's bringing people together. I'm a facilitator, you know, and I'm showing people that there's a way, a way, not the way. And the only way I could show that is because I've been through it. Right. So I feel it to be authentic. I'm not trying to sell a weekend workshop to change your life because that doesn't change your life.

You know, what changes your life is going inwardly. Yeah. I love that. You're teaching based off of your experience. That's what Shannon and I always say. Experience is truth. It's your truth. Yes. Yeah. Wow. That sounds freaking amazing.

You know, I had saw that women needed a space to come together in our community to talk about all the weird shit that we experienced and all that. And then I had this like bad feeling of not including men, especially, you know, friends that we experienced and all that. And then I had this like bad feeling of not including men, especially, you know, friends that we love. Like you said, it's like evolutionary. Men need space too. They do. I think it's beautiful that you're doing this. Thank you.

Thank you. And you know, who came to me when you said that is like, this isn't a high school dance. We can't be afraid of each other anymore. Men and women. The most terrifying thing a man will do is approach a woman. That's why they don't do it. Right.

So it's like, we're kind of afraid of each other and women are afraid of men for different reasons. And we got to stop that because yes, we cause damage to each other. We have, but now it's time to help each other and reach across the aisle and bring balance and bring balance. Do this work together in community. Yeah. You know, they say all the miracles happen in the uncomfortable, you know, the miracles, you know, the miracles happen

in that discomfort. And so if we were to do like a sacred circle with men and women, it's going to be, it's going to make people a little uncomfortable, but that's where it's going to happen. You know, that's where people are going to learn to be authentic and be able to open up in that kind of setting. You have been awesome. You know, authentic, you can tell that you're speaking from your heart and your soul and your experience. And I really appreciate your vulnerability and you know, you could have lived in that fear your whole life. So kudos to you for doing the work. And I'm so glad that that spiritual opening happened for you that led you to your, your awakening. And, you know, I say this all the time, this opening and this awakening continues forever and ever and ever.

I just I love the work you're doing. What is NSM stand for? Oh, that's nature, spirituality, masculinity. Right. I think a big part of this is getting out in nature. Like we're nature. Well, most of us are living in the city. So get out in nature and do this work. It'll be quicker and easier because that's the highest.

I mean, I got to go get a damn cabin in the mountains for eight months. I'm kind of scared. You're already in the perfect state for it. Got big sky above you. By yourself. Like you have to be brave to go sit in the mountains by yourself for eight months. You got to be brave to be on a boat in the ocean by yourself. Like you have to be brave to go sit in the mountains by yourself for eight months. You got to be brave to be on a boat in the ocean by yourself. That's a lot of in your own head. It is, but it goes back to like what Shannon was saying earlier is like, we got to recognize that

we're complete, like alone. I believe alone is a Latin word meaning all one, right? So there's a difference between being lonely and being alone. Being alone is necessary, you know, because if you can't be alone, there's information there that you need to really look at. If you can be alone comfortably, good, you're aligned. Then you can welcome someone else into your life. So for me, it's a real good indicator of where I am because it's really scary to face yourself. Most people will go through this lifetime and not do it. And that's okay. You could have a functional life, but if you want to be powerful, if you want to serve the world, serve God, got to do it. And solitude is one way of doing it. I am a big

advocate of solitude. It's not the only way, but it's, it's a great tool. Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, thank you for sharing. Where can our listeners find you? Can you shout out to your social media and your website for us? Yeah, sure. Thank you. Real quick. RJ Coaching NYC, Instagram, Robert Joseph Coaching on Facebook or robertjosephcoaching.com. And I'm not too hard to find. And now it's time for break that shit down. Yeah. Oh, thank you for that. That's a beautiful way to end. You know, for me, it's like, I just would want to tell anyone listening is you're okay.

Right. And you're not alone. And whatever you're feeling is part of the human experience what you your work is my work what your pain is is my pain it's right we're at different places in life but you're not you'll get through it if you're willing to put your trust in your higher power that is the contract you need to make and that is all you need from a relationship standpoint is a relationship with yourself and the relationship with your higher power. It's a beautiful start and you're okay, right? The suffering is temporary and you'll get through it,

but you must believe in yourself, go inwardly and go to God. That's my piece. Awesome. Thank you so much. And again, I appreciate you taking the time. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you, ladies. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.