Sense of Soul - Healing the Past, Present & Future

Episode Date: April 26, 2021

Today on Sense of Soul, we welcomed  Author Sylvia True, she joined us to talk about her novel, “Where Madness Lies”. Based on a true story of Sylvia’s own discovery of her family’s horrific accounts of the Holocaust. This novel is an emotional tale of mental illness, dogmatism, and the the power of the past to save the future. A touching story about hope and redemption, about what we pass on, both genetically and culturally. This masterful novel is available at most bookstores. https://www.johnhuntpublishing.com/tophat-books/our-books/where-madness-lies Go to www.mysenseofsoul.com, if you need help learning about your ancestry, check out the CLEAR workshop! Just released this week we also have a new fun Intuitive Mystery Box, and soon launching weekly sacred circles! Please Rate, Comment and Subscribe! Thanks for Listening!

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Today with us we have the author Sylvia True. She is the author of the book where Madness Lies is based on a true story of Sylvia's own family, a story about hope and redemption, about what we pass on both genetically and culturally. This is one of my favorite subjects. I love talking about ancestry. I feel it's so important.

And we thank her so very much for taking her time to speak with us. She's a teacher and is taking a break from class. And we just appreciate her being with us. She's a teacher and has taken a break from class and we just appreciate her being with us. Thank you, Sylvia. Thank you for having me. Yes, I feel like it's something that has not been a part of American culture and I think we really need to start looking at that more. It's definitely part of my passion, but did you always know where you came from? To some degree. I mean, I knew my parents were from Europe. Obviously, I was born in England. I knew my parents left

Germany. I did not know some of the real trauma that happened to them in Germany, especially my mother's family before they fled. I didn't find out about that until, you know, I was struggling with my own issues and mental illness. And then it slowly became revealed in order to help me. And it did help me to learn. I think that you bring up such a great point about understanding your ancestry, your history. For me, that understanding actually set me free. I mean, I know that sounds a little cliche, but it did. It made me sort of sit up and say, okay, I get it. Make some sort of sense. Same, the same experience I've had with my ancestry. Can we talk about the name of your book, Where Madness Lies? Yeah. so it's got sort of a multiple meanings, I guess, in terms of

who you as the reader decide is truly mad. Is it the people who are in the hospitals, sometimes because of what other people have done to them? Or is it the people who are, you know, taking over the country and doing some pretty horrific things in the country. So there are a number of meanings you can take from that title. So where does the madness actually come from? Is it culture? Is it our DNA? I read your book. Thank you. It was one of the most powerful, most emotional. I felt like I was there with your family, like experiencing this. It was educational. I was taught things that I didn't even know happened in our history to the extent that it was explained. And so you're right. There was a little bit of madness throughout all different

areas of the book. But of course, I felt like that true, the evil madness was obviously very one-sided with Hitler and what was going on. First of all, that was very brave and courageous of you to put down on paper. And I thank you for that because I'm sure it was a roller coaster of emotions for you. I can't even imagine how it must felt for you to put that story on paper. Let's just talk about that for a moment. That's such an interesting observation from a writer's point of view. So, you know, I've been fiddling with this on and off for a few years and I remember learning about it being shocked by it and certainly I went through a lot of the emotions because I'm basically one of the characters I'm Sabine in the book and you know the first time you write about it I do think

you know there's sort of a cathartic experience that happens when you're like trying to piece the pieces together and what time period and which chapter should go where, you know, I lose the emotion. meaningful for me that you feel that from my writing because after a while the writer becomes a bit numb to the you know not you're just like you're trying to make it work as a writer and you're editing and moving pieces around so it's so it's just amazing to hear that from you right and it's like the story means so much to you but you're're like, how do you know, how do I connect and have it? And is it going to mean anything to anyone else? Right. And I think that you also made a great point when you, Mandy, when you were talking about how you learned so much about history, because working with not just my ancestry, but many others and helping them. I mean, I've learned this truth about our history that you're not going

to find in history books right right that's absolutely correct you know especially in my book I think one of the things that you know was new to some people was really the not eugenics itself but how the beginning of eugenics led to the gas chambers in the concentration camps and the the step sort of along the way was with the mental ill and you know i really think of what you know the nazis did in the mental hospitals to patients with sterilization and euthanasia, and then the doctors designing the gas chambers there, that was the Nazis' opening act. I mean, everything they did in those hospitals then was done in the concentration camps. And I think that's often a missing sort of link in our history of this horrible time. These distorted relationships that these doctors were having and, oh my God, there was just so,

so much emotion I had. I cried. I cried for Rigor Moore. I mean, I cried for you. I cried for your family because epigenetics, you know, is this up and new kind of common topic. Actually, I was waiting on a table last night. I went back to serving and I walked up on this couple talking about his father, who is 94 years old, is one of very few survivors still alive. Right. And they were talking about epigenetics and his wife is a therapist

and how, you know, we all know, like for me, alcoholism, I was told is genetic, but trauma is passed down also in our DNA. So you found yourself troubled with mental illness, and then you got help when you were young. And so for you to sit back and write this book and look at how this trauma has traveled down through you must just been very eye-opening and also very healing. Yeah. I mean, it was healing. And I think I was, again, looking back, so fortunate to have my mother and my grandmother helped me with this because my grandmother was really the one who in many ways, I don't know, traumatized the most. I don't know if you can quantify that, but you know, she did everything she could in Germany to help her

sister and that didn't work. And she had to leave the country without her money, without her sister, without her husband. And I think what she did, and it's understandable, is she put it all in a box and pushed it away, you know, really did repress it. And then just began to control all kinds of little things, because you couldn't control all the big things and the trauma. And, you know, she became a sort of rigid controlling person. And it wasn't until, you know, and nobody was allowed to speak of mental illness. Nobody knew why, like I grew up in this war. And I think many people will relate to this with family secrets. You know, you grew up in this war of sort of secrecy and fear and children feel that, you know, they don up in this war of sort of secrecy and fear and children feel that,

you know, they don't know what it's called. They don't know how to name it, but they're the barometers of what's going on in the household. And I know I felt things that were frightening, but I didn't know what they were. You know, my grandmother and my mother, basically, mostly my grandmother, you know, was absolutely going to take this secret to her grave. And because I got ill, which initially terrified my mother and grandmother, I mean, I think, you know, that triggered all the trauma, certainly for my grandmother of all the things that happened in Germany. But after I got ill, they came around, and they told me their story and mostly again my grandmother but

that was incredibly healing and that's the only way sometimes I think that's the way you have to heal trauma is you have to go back and see where it stems from and for me it wasn't stemming from me being a child it was stemming from you know two generations ago which I think is a fascinating way to look at it it is it's almost like even if your your mind doesn't remember trauma or even if you don't know about it right your body your DNA still has that imprint so right you somehow you know it or pick it up but you you don't know what it is. And I definitely, again, it's easy in some ways to look back and, you know, I was depressed most of my life. I didn't know what it was called.

I was told I was oversensitive and I had to pull up my socks and get some more grit. And, you know, I tried, I like tried to fake it, tried to fake it. And then in my early twenties, things were much worse. I couldn't drive anymore. I couldn't go to the grocery store. I felt completely overwhelmed and panicked all the time. I knew I wasn't allowed to go see a psychiatrist because that was like for both in my family. So I did what I thought was best. I was like, well, how can I fix this? And I thought, well, I'll just have a baby. And, you know, having a baby was, you know, an enormous gift and the

best decision in many ways I could make, but it also landed me with a postpartum depression on top of my regular depression, which ended me up in a hospital. And I remember initially going into the hospital and all the doctors, you know, one of the first things they ask is, is there any mental illness in your family? I was like, no, absolutely not. Everybody's perfect. Except for me, obviously. So learning the history is immensely important in healing as well. When did they tell you, when did your family like come and tell you, did they come to the hospital and say, Hey, listen, guess what? Well, yeah, it wasn't that straightforward, but not far from it. So initially my grandmother and mother were too frightened to talk to me, which of course

terrified me more because like I'm in a mental hospital. I don't know what the hell's going on. This is the lowest of the low I think you can be and then with them not talking to me that made me even more like frightened and ashamed what sort of happened with my mother actually more so was as I started going to therapy and eventually like she did begin calling me and we started talking she sort of she never went to therapy either. And also, you know, had some depression and anxiety. So she sort of started doing therapy through me, like I, she would talk to me, and I would relay these things to my psychiatrist. And then my grandmother came, and, you know, we were slowly beginning to open up and talk more. And it, you know, it was my grandmother

who had to slowly reveal and that I understood it all made sense to me and to other people in my family. It was sort of this coming out of the dark and into the light once you discover these things. What was her demeanor when she told you, like, did you feel like it felt good for her to get it out? Was it really difficult for her? Did it send her, did it trigger her? Could you see the pain carrying like the pain on her? I mean, you know, pain and secrets like that can really affect not only your physical looks, but your mental health, your physical health. Like how is she? How was she? I think relieved in the end, certainly very, very difficult to get through and to have to go back to those times. It's hard to know. I mean, I do think, you know, she didn't think about it or she tried not to think about it. But I wonder how many times it seeped in, in other ways. And,

you know, when you finally unburden yourself from a secret, there is an enormous relief. And I definitely think that came in and we got much closer. I wasn't always that close to her. She was difficult and she had a gazillion little rules and especially with our table manners and you know all these other things and my hair was never right it's still never right but whatever it's my hair right and you know there's so many criticisms so you know I always I didn't look forward to seeing her um because I was nervous but it was so interesting after this time together, you know, I had my walls up, she had her walls up and, you know, slowly you break down those walls and you come to understand where the other person's fears lie. And I mean, I think that's the most important

thing. Like, I mean, when I look at society today, right? I mean, people are pointing fingers, blaming, angry. We don't sit and really listen to fears, right? So when you understand where the other person's really coming from, you understand really what their fears are. And then you can really have empathy and that can lead to a different kind of love you know I love that because you know what just crossed my mind and I could be way off guard was maybe the reason she was so picky about table manners and your hair is because because of what had happened to her that was the only way she felt like she was in control of something you know and so that probably brought you so much more compassion about why she was the way she felt like she was in control of something, you know? And so that probably brought you so much

more compassion about why she was the way she was. I found that in my ancestry with my grandfather, it was like, he had all these odd behaviors, but then when I learned his story, I was able to look at him and have compassion for him from a completely different space. I just think it's so fascinating. You know, there's all of these patterns that are passed down. Right. Voice tone. I sound exactly like some of my cousins, my mom and her sister. You can't barely tell the difference. And we have very strong physical likeness. We all really look alike, but that's kind of like what we're focused on is these physical things. Right. And we don't consider that we're taking on other things, you know, mental illnesses. Also,

you know, there's a lot of studies that have proven that a lot of the mutations from people who have had trauma from all different cultures are passed down. We have good and bad, right? Characteristics that is passed down. One of the things I thought was fascinating was that you and your grandfather have similar interests. Yeah. One of my grandfathers was a chemist and the other one was a doctor. So it is, that is interesting as well, because I do think there's a strong love for science. I don't know if that's genetic or not, or if that's like partly cultural, because that's what you grow up with, you know, that this is what people study.

I mean, although my father was a brilliant nuclear physicist and he loved history and operas, he was a man of many talents. Did you dig into his ancestry as well? A little bit, but not as much as my mother's. He and his family also fled from Germany. His doctor was the doctor of Anne Frank and her family before they fled to Amsterdam. And my grandfather on my father's side was just the kindest, most gentle man. And he absolutely did not believe that anything terrible was going to happen in Germany. And he couldn't believe humans would do that.

And his cousin had to literally push him on the train. And my father had been pretty badly beaten and abused by the Nazis in school before they left. But like many people of that era and generation, it was something they didn't talk about and if you would ask my father you know how was your childhood he'd tell you it was idyllic you know and perfect and but you know it wasn't obviously thank god things have changed right wow the doctor of Anne Freak's family that's some serious history right there. So give our listeners a teaser.

We'll do some music. Dun, dun, dun. Give them just a little teaser recap of your book. So 1934, Frankfurt, Germany, the Nazis are in power. Rigmor is not getting any better. She suffers from depression. She's diagnosed with hysteria. She has what they call fits, some psychosis. Her sister tries everything to help her, bring her to the right doctors, see what kind of information is out there. Eventually, they decide to put her in into one of the best institutions in Germany called Sonnenstein. But the Nazis have just enacted their first sterilization law, and anyone with any kind of mental illness or things like feeblemindedness, alcoholism, congenital deafness and blindness is sterilized so wigmore is caught up in the campaign of the

nazis to rid germany of the mentally ill will she survive oh my god chills um gut punch um i i seriously feel nauseous there's a part in the book where the sweet doctor is guiding a child out of the room and he's forced into how would I say it like preparing them but they don't even know what they're getting ready to you know head into it's oh my god so sad yeah and you know what it anchors me that which I think they are now but I know that like when I was in school you know all of the trauma that happened throughout cultures they didn't really teach us much about it no it was all about the triumphs you know right right and I mean I think that this story is kind of interesting it's all about trying to protect the children in

a way. And I remember when my grandfather died, my grandfather, the one who was a doctor, Van Frank, and I had, I felt very close to him. Even though he was still in England, we left England when I was five, but we went back and I remember him very well. And when, when I was nine, he died and my mother came to my room and told me that he died but that I needn't be sad because of course I wouldn't remember him anyway and I don't think she was right it seems odd right like now why would you say something like that but you know I think it was a way like yeah don't let them feel any kind of pain you know so sad but I think it was a way like, yeah, don't let them feel any kind of pain, you know? That's so sad.

But I think that happens in, also when we look at history as a way to like, sort of disconnect from the suffering. We don't want children. That's what I feel is sad. That's so sad that, you know, they had to harden themselves, you know, so much because it was so painful, so traumatizing. Yeah. And it wasn't that long ago. Right. That's what I don't get. Like when we're talking about like segregation and the Holocaust and yeah, it's just like, this wasn't that long ago. I mean, we, there's still people alive that have experienced these things.

What kind of forgiveness, if any, have you been able to offer Hitler? And what do you think of him? Like, I think of him as a dark, dark Lord. Like, where are you at with that kind of human on earth? I mean, literally, I feel like he's like a devil. Right. I feel like that too. It's interesting

to think about. I was just with my four-year-old grandson yesterday. He was asking about, you know, people who had died in my family and he refers to them as like, so who's a spirit, right? So your mother's spirit, your grandmother's spirit. I was explaining that that and then the reason i bring that up is because you know evil is such an interesting thing like are is there is there evil are there evil spirits is there evil energy and you know i think there is i i mean i think that when we die maybe we'll learn about you know how, how this all works, like why some people are born with such evilness. There was like a speaker and this one lady said, well, how do you forgive someone like Hitler? You know, and I think they were talking about forgiveness and all this

stuff. And it was a talk and the guy was like, yeah, you know, that's, that's hard. And he went on and he's talking about this little boy who suffered as a child, lost his mother at a young age and bounced around and been abused. And he goes on and on. He's really in depth with the story. And there's like not a dry eye in the crowd, you know, just really sad for this boy. And then at the end of the story he says that little boy's name is hitler and at the end of this talk this woman this old woman comes up to him and she says and she raises her arms and she hugs him and as she does her sleeve falls And there was her concentration camp number. Oh my God. And she said, you made me feel compassion for someone who I always just had nothing but hate for. Right. Right. It was such a powerful story for me to read. Right. I don't really know where, but when I read it, I was like, wow. amazing. Yeah. When you wrote this book, what was your hope that people could get out of it to help implement into our current world and in the future?

So I think that one of, there were two things, I'll probably point at two, but one of them certainly is more acceptance. And there is much more acceptance for all kinds of mental illness. That's very important to me. When I was in McLean and Erica, my daughter was a baby, I made sort of a deal with myself that when I began to understand what happened in my family, and I really had to look at how much shame I felt throughout my whole life and I wanted to like rid myself of shame number one obviously but more importantly is I wanted my daughter and then my next daughter to be raised in an environment that was as much as possible free from fear and shame and that if they then had trouble, which they both did in

different ways, Erica's, you know, became pretty depressed around 14. And Toria had really issues with anxiety. And what I cared about most was that they didn't feel ashamed that they could go and get help. And they did. I mean, I brought Erica to a psychiatrist, a psychologist and a psychic. There is no shame. They're very, you know, beautiful, productive women. And they don't think anything of having to take medicine, depression or whatever. I mean, they just, and for me, that was, that was huge. It's, it's important for my students too, that, you know, I know I teach chemistry, but you know, that they understand there's no shame in students too, that, you know, I know I teach chemistry, but, you know, that they understand there's no shame in it. So that was one thing. And, and the other,

that kind of goes along with that is just, I've sort of been on a crusade of openness. And I think from so much of my life, like, you know, having been closed off, not even understanding why, and then coming out of a depression in your 20s, you just sort of the world looks, everything wakes up and it's new and fresh and exciting. You just become, or I became, you know, really open to things, which was when my interest in the paranormal started as well. And that was hugely important to me. So two things, I guess, guess you know an acceptance of mentally ill and and an openness to other people um to listening to other people's fears as i said before that's really important i think they were victim to just the most awful thing that any human being should be victim to and it was passed down to you you know not to your awareness but now that it is

now that you have daughters right do we still have to be victim to what they went through now that we have awareness no i don't think i hope not no i i think you're free of that i think that's an amazing feeling too is is, you know, going through therapy and sometimes during parts of therapy, I mean, everybody, and this isn't just me, you know, feels like, you know, my mother did this to me, my father did this and, and that's, you should do that. Like there's, that's part of the process, but after you, you know, sort of talk about it, look about it, look at it, get it out. I mean, hopefully we can be free from that. I mean, I, you know, we don't want to feel like a victim. We want to feel empowered. And so therapy, I think helps with that.

It's such a shame that that word has shame around it. It really does. Yeah. Cause I can remember as a little girl, a psychologist slash therapist was sent into my classroom to pull me out because I had some like deep rooted anger at home and I felt so embarrassed and so much shame. And like everyone was looking at me and that I was broken. It meant I was broken and needed fixed. It meant that I was different and I needed help. And I was so upset that he would come into the classroom to pull me out. And it just breaks my heart that people think that getting help means that you're broken or that something's wrong with you. And I love that you're vulnerable and open now. I mean, you were so open that you even put pictures, true pictures of your family in your book.

I mean, that's really being vulnerable. Why did you choose to do that? Yeah. Is that why you chose to do that? Um, I don't think I conscious consciously chose to be vulnerable, but I think I have set myself up to be vulnerable throughout my life in different ways. And it's brought me some of the most amazing like experiences because if, you know, if you take that deep breath and that kind of leap of faith and say you know what I'm just gonna say it like it is and put it out there so much good comes back to you like you know I don't know if that's karma but I think that does happen and I also I love some of those pictures and I think that I hope it brings you back to my grandchildren and you know they get pictures in all of their books why don't we get more pictures in our books

anyway yeah pictures are great like pictures you know me too they show history like it's tangible kind of yeah it's tangible they give you depth they give you more feeling you know yeah hopefully the words characters but then you get you know you see them and it gives you yet another sort of deeper different kind of feeling how healing was this for you to write this out to actually share your story um so very i mean so it's interesting i've been sharing it you know certainly among family and friends right but not like fully putting it and committing to putting it to paper and it and um because it was a little bit you know because there were two timelines it was a little difficult to to write but when I think about you know putting the book out there and then having,

like, I've written a couple essays, writing some essays. I was on NPR the other day and answering the questions just really honestly. I didn't think I could learn more about myself, but I have. Some of the questions have been really, made me really look even deeper. And so, I don't know. I feel revitalized again. And it's great. Like I said before, I'm in my 60s. I think one of somebody asked me that, like, how are you feeling now? You know, and I'm like, great. And every decade has literally got better for me. And this last year has been one of the craziest years. I feel freer than ever. So I don't know. I think that partly is the book and just talking about it, like it's no big deal. I almost had a little bit of

guilt for a moment after sharing my very traumatic near death experience with a therapist and a lot of the things I've gone through. Cause she said, I feel like you don't have any emotions or feelings about it. It's, it's odd. And I said, well, I just, I've told it so many times. It's not that I don't feel it. Right. It's just like, you're telling a story all of a sudden. So it does go from this like piece of you that's stuck and ingrained inside of your heart to it's out of you and it's free and it's floating around you and you're able to grasp it and still tell it without those feelings. But for a moment, I was like, wait a minute, am I coming across just like very matter of fact? And like, I don't care because I don't want that either. Do you ever

find that you're kind of in that limbo and it feels odd? Yeah, I absolutely love the way you just described that. I do feel like, you know, you've carried it, you've carried it, and then you release it. And there is, I mean, there's just a freedom to it. But when I listen to you, I don't, there's, I mean, I can, I don't know. I mean, I think I'm pretty good at first impressions, but there's not, there's only warmth around you. You know what I mean? So regardless of how you told it, you didn't, you don't need to be crying. I feel the warmth and the depth. That's how I felt with your book too. I have a question about your experiences with paranormal. Was that also passed down? Do you think that, you know, people having these spiritual experiences often are passed down. Do you think that, you know, people having these spiritual experiences often are passed down in generations as well? I do think that I'm going to like be completely vulnerable

now. Are you ready for this story? Do it, do it. Oh, good. Okay. So I do think that, and I don't, it was not passed down in my family. I became interested shortly after I got out of the hospital. I ended up getting a divorce from my first husband, not really a fault of his own. We were young. I was depressed, whatever. And I got out and I started dating this guy. And he eventually told me his mother was a psychic. And I was like, yeah, no, those things don't exist.

My family's all science. We're a super intellectual. We don't believe in that sort of nonsense, but I was intrigued. Right. And so I went to see his mom, his mom's name was Sophie. And she was, she blew me away. She wrote regular cards, not tarot cards. And I couldn't believe this person knew all these things. Right. And then it turns out right. That her son is also psychic. Right. Now he doesn't do it the way his mother does. He doesn't sit at his kitchen table and help people, but he like always knows things. I would be like, whoa. Anyway, he ended up moving. I live in Boston. He moved to California. This was 30 years ago. And then his mother, I became very close to his

mother and she taught me everything I know about faith and religion, you know, through her psychicness. And it was just an amazing experience. And I visited her probably about once a week. And then, you know, I got interested in mediums and I did all kinds of other research. My daughter calls me the medium hunter. And then about a year before Sophie died, she had dementia, right? But I still want to see her. You know, I'd bring her a cake and she'd see me and immediately like connect.

She wouldn't always know exactly who I was, but she knew like when she saw me, she wanted to read my cards. And I was like, of course, but I didn't believe anything she said. Right. So she said two things in particular, and she repeated them before she died. One, that an old boyfriend of mine was coming to town and was, that was going to be a big change. I'm like, I don't have any old boyfriends except maybe your son, but you would know it was him.

And then she said, and there's some paperwork that you need to find because without it, you're going to lose a lot of money. My father was dying and I was the executor of the will, but I knew that will, I knew it was like clean. I had gone over with lawyers. You know, I had to be really careful. I had, you know, I have siblings. I wanted everything to be fair and above board. And she kept repeating this. And I was like, no, I know it's all set on the computer. Right. Yeah. And so then she died. She died a couple of months or about a month before my father died. She died. Her son comes to town. He's more handsome than ever. Right's my partner now my marriage I so I didn't want to lie to my husband our marriage is kind of flat we were roommates and I said listen I have feelings

for another man Kenny and I you know nothing happened between us my husband practically fled and I couldn't find my prenup which protected my house in Summoning Harry but I did eventually that was the document she was referring to whoa everything she said in her state of dementia which I thought she must not be accurate was correct I mean it was crazy well it wasn't coming from her mind no right but so I sort of dismissed it you know I look back and now I mean Kenny and I laugh about it all the time because it's like oh my god she knew all of this that's a great story that's a really good story wow here I am in my 60s feeling like I'm 15 again that is wonderful what a great movie to write a book about

that I know who thought I really honestly of all the things that have happened in my life him coming back into my life has been the biggest surprise of my life I wouldn't say I've given up on love I just thought you know I'm not I'm in a good marriage. It's just not a romantic marriage and there you have it. So I love that. So I'm curious if you have to describe yourself as a teacher, because I have, I have my ideas, what you're like, I feel like you'd be a really cool one. Do you describe yourself? I feel like you're really open-minded and you probably teach really cool curriculum

and kind of go outside the box. I will always go outside the box. Yeah, I mean, I love my students. They love me, I hope. We have some great teachers in this department. I'm the department head. So I actually hired everybody here now. That's how old I am.

I've renamed our department. We're now the science technology and paranormal studies department I love it I have basically taken my department in into my interest of the paranormal one of my department members has flown over to Ireland with me to visit a medium so you know and I talk about that with my students too and I remember one day I mean this was one of my funniest ever days but so this other teacher and I there was this big big time medium that was coming here and I paid like five hundred dollars for something called the spirit circle where there are about eight people who go and he promises a reading for all eight people and I don't know

why but I was like I think this guy's not I think he's fake and so we didn't on purpose do a sting but I was I said to my friend you know what you take my place I don't want the money you go in my place and if he tells you things like you know your mother fled from the nazis she was swiss national champion right yeah then if if that's the information he gives you he's just read an obituary right and we know he's a fraud so she goes into the spirit he doesn't meet him he doesn't ask for people's names and And he immediately comes up with, there's a woman here. My mother moved to Chicago. He literally cited all the things that I said he would cite because they were right off her obituary from my name. You can type in my name.

The next day I wrote him an email. I sent it to him. I said, listen, I just laid it out. I didn't think much of it. My friend, colleague was actually much more upset about it than I was. She felt like these other people were really being taken advantage of. So she came into my room just as I had sent off the letter. And I had 25 students in my class. We were explaining the story to them because it's chemistry, right? No, I'm just kidding. And we were just, we are, we're explaining the story. And right then my phone rings and it's a private block caller. So it's this guy calling. I put him on speaker. So all my students could hear. So I walked out of the room because it was getting really intense. He

called me evil, whatever. I was like, Oh, this is bad. They all followed me. I mean, it was just the funniest day. Like that's what we did in chemistry that day. You know? Wow. Well, lessons learned. I just had this vision of me like unzipping my child's backpack and pulling out like this permission slip going on a ghost hunt to a paranormal one day I had a reading with a medium and I thought she was like crazy good and as soon as it was over I had a class and I was telling a couple of my students some of my students I take to Peru in the summer so I was pretty close to them and I was telling them and they absolutely these two boys were no way no way no way and they told me why they thought she cheated and I was like listen make up a fake name make up

a fake identity email and have a reading with her so they had a reading with her in this office right here right it was hysterical because the whole school knew that you know Mrs. Bodmer's chemistry students were having a reading with this international psychic in my office, right? And the best piece of the reading, the reading was good. It wasn't like outstanding, but the best piece was when they came to talk to me about it, there was nothing in my office, right? There was nothing you could see back here was just white. She would, could never have any idea that they were connected to like, they were made up everything. So when she had read me, she said there was a young man. She could feel

the spirit of a young man in this office who I knew very well as a teacher and a student. And she was kind of confused about that and that he had killed himself, but he stayed around me. And that happened. I mean, I knew this young around me and that happened I mean I knew this young man who's a brother of somebody I work with who was a student of mine and then was a substitute teacher here and I had tried to help him and he did end up committing suicide so she picked up that during my reading with these two boys she said you know there's someone in the off is there someone where you are like uh she said like a teacher maybe a student and he killed himself and then she said she's stuck she's like no no no no it's not with you two it's in wherever you are that's that person

is there which she had said with me so that was kind of an interesting little ghost story yeah like like so yeah your kids were unless she said that to every single person to every single person yeah who knows yeah true what do you mean i don't get it i don't get it like the next person she said the same thing to and the next person, she said the same thing too. And the next person. Right. Could be just to kind of tie things in really fast. We, I thought it would be interesting to you. We had on a gentleman who has traveled quite a bit in his life and done a lot with like National Geographic and the History Channel. And he went to a woman known as like the witchy doctor in an area of Africa.

And they, she told him all these prophecies. And one of them was that he was going to meet someone that was very close to the most evilest person in the world. And then years later, fast forward, he was asked to do a documentary on these airplanes that used to fly very long distances. Um, and he was invited into the home of Adolf Hitler's personal pilot. Oh, wow. But he said that he, this, this man walked him through his home and showed him all these pictures of him with him. And he said it was just eerie and that every single prophecy that she had told him

and there were a lot there were like 12 all came true yeah you know the paranormal's fun but unfortunately there are some frauds and fakes out there i love that you called them out on it because i'm the same way i'm like oh no i'm gonna tell you very tactfully but straightforward that you're fraud right i mean you know it's interesting because i actually think some people think oh if you see one fraud then that should prove that everybody's a fraud i think the opposite i i think the fraud fraudulent one almost legitimized the real ones and stuff right yeah yeah yeah you should get with gavin i know he loves you he'll probably send you um lionel freebird's book oh yeah yeah i've heard about it yeah yeah it's good definitely so good well thank you so much for taking time out

of your day you're so awesome my hope is that everyone picks up your book. I think it's something that everyone needs to read as Shanna has stated. And she actually has proof of it sitting in her bedroom. History leaves out a whole lot. She has her father's like history book from when he was young. And it is just a joke. You know, your book really opened my eyes to a lot of things that I did not know took place. And so thank you for that because it inspires me to realize once again, that everyone has a story and that story might not be part of your life, but that story that was in your lineage is in your body, in your DNA. And maybe that can help people to have a little more compassion and empathy. That's beautiful.

Thank you. That's really beautiful. Sylvia, where can our listeners find your book and learn more about you? I have a website, SylviaTrue.com. You can find my book on Amazon or anywhere books are sold pretty easy. And I'm happy to talk to anybody, obviously that came out a lot. I'm just happy to talk to anybody. And how do we get more teachers like you in the school districts here in Colorado? Because I want my kid in your class yeah we need to start adding to the resume um do you have any fun spiritual or

paranormal right wisdom right as I'm about to interview people for a new biology position that's just opening up in our school maybe i'll ask that today yeah pick a cool one come on tell me what you know about the paranormal i would love to throw that in as an interview question but i wouldn't want to freak anybody out but it would be so much fun right like that would be that's interesting are they open about it anyway i'm not going to be asking that probably but i might who knows there you go I love it just might they might ask you yeah they might and now it's time for break that shit down I would say just stay open love it so much fun

thank you I know. You're awesome. Thank you so much again for coming on during your school day. And maybe one day we can interview some of your students about you. Oh, yeah. Many of our listeners have asked how they can support Sense of Soul podcast. You can now buy Mandy and I a cup of coffee by going to www.mysenseofsoul.com and go to the coffee fund. You can also take one of our many workshops or classes online. We love to meet our listeners and work with them. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.