Sense of Soul - Living Consciously with MS

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Today on Sense of Soul we have Jon Chandonnet, he was on the fast track to success, earning his master's from MIT and leading teams to develop software to launch startups, while also scaling mountain peaks and running marathons. But at 33, his life took an unexpected turn when he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. For years, Jon lived in denial, ignoring his condition as he pushed himself to even greater extremes. Eventually, his health deteriorated, forcing him to embark on an eight-year journey to understand life's essential elements for vibrant well-being despite his illness. His book Shadow Summit chronicles this inspiring odyssey through denial, suffering, and ultimately healing and wholeness. On this quest, Jon identified seven foundational elements for creating one's healthiest, most fulfilled life. Drawing on his software background, he realized humans, like computers, process daily inputs that shape their outputs. Jon distilled these insights into the 7 VIBRANTs™ well-being system, a holistic framework to mindfully curate the inputs we receive through food, thoughts, emotions and social interactions. This allows anyone to naturally cultivate the vibrant life they desire with greater focus, persistence, joy and ease. Jon is also the author of Shadow Summit, an incredible story of Jon's journey through denial and suffering, to a vibrant life of love, healing, and wholeness that he was determined to make possible. MS knocked Jon down, but it didn't knock him out. It motivated him to become more conscious and intentional about life. Putting into practice his learnings about diet, exercise and spirituality, Jon has reversed his symptoms. Available on here on Amazon. www.vibrantuacademy.com www.senseofsoulpodcast.com

Hey Soulseekers, it's Shanna. Journey with me to discover how people around the world awaken to their true sense of soul. Now go grab your coffee. Open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Today on Sense of Soul, I have John Chandonnet. He was on the fast track to success, earning his Masters from MIT and leading teams to develop software and launch startups, while scaling mountain peaks and running marathons. But at 33 years old, his life took an unexpected turn when he was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. For years,

John lived in denial, ignoring his condition as he pushed himself to even greater extremes, eventually deteriorating his health and forcing him to embark on an eight-year-long journey to understand life's essential elements for vibrant well-being despite his illness. On his quest, John identified seven foundational elements for creating one's healthiest, most fulfilled life, and he distilled these insights into the seven vibribrance Wellbeing System, helping others to naturally cultivate the vibrant life they desire with greater focus, persistence, joy and ease. His book Shadow Summit chronicles his inspiring Odyssey through denial, suffering and ultimately healing in wholeness.

He is here today to share his story of how he turned his painting to purpose. So please welcome John. I know that your story is one of perseverance is what I would say. That's a great way to begin it. Yeah. So I'm from a family of athletes. You know, my kids were gonna be athletes before they were born kind of thing. My son also went all the way to his senior year.

And I remember as a mother who sacrificed many things for my son and his full-time baseball schedule since he was like three and having three other kids as well, always thought, wow, that would just be the worst thing in the world. You know, you hear these tragic stories, tragic stories, they make it all the way. And then something happens, an injury and they can't play anymore. And that happened to my son. And then he looked at me at like 18 and was like, coach me. What base do I go to?

What do I do? Who am I? This was the plan, which you talk about. Oh, yes. Do you mind sharing John like how you became aware of MS and give us a little background? So you know my first experience with MS was as a kid, a child. My aunt had a good friend with MS and actually I remember being in her kitchen. I remember her very well. And like she was very able-bodied. She was like every other, she was like my mother or my aunt and just working and being a homemaker and you know taking care of the family. And she had MS, but it came up on her in a pretty significant way.

And, you know, she was in a wheelchair and pretty incapacitated. And so that's my earliest experience with MS. And so that's part of my story. Like it's part of my experience, you know, and so that's a fear. And so there's a lot of fear around that, like MS is this big, hairy, scary disease. That's what it was. And that's what it was in my mind. So that was your picture of it. That was my first recollection of what it was. And it was something to be feared, and it was and it was something to be feared and it was something to be avoided.

And God forbid something I never had in my experience, hopefully not. And you were an athlete as well. Yeah, I was. I was an athlete in high school. I played soccer, I played basketball, I played lacrosse, I played soccer, I played basketball, I played lacrosse, I played in college. And then after I got diagnosed, I was 27.

And how do you deal with it? You deal with it physically. So my fear was my physical abilities were going to get taken away. And so I'm like, no, I'm going to work the hardest I can to maintain them. And I ran marathons. I ran triathlons after diagnosed. I climbed Whitney Shaffer Tyndall. I did crazy mountain bike rides in the Sierras, the Santa Monica Mountains. And all to try to, and the Santa Monica Mountains and all to try to, in a way, it was like trying to bait the MS. I'm like, yeah, what do you think you got?

What do you got? Show me what you got. Okay. Well, it did. It showed me. My oldest son is 27. I can't imagine, you know, if that's, you're just beginning your life, you know, all of your hopes and dreams and that plan. And so you're like, this isn't going to stop me. And so that avoidance, I'm really good at

avoidance. In fact, it's probably one of my biggest battles. It's something that I'm always working on and I find myself always going back to. Yep. Yep. Denial. Denial is a compensation mechanism. It's a way for us to try to bound something that's psychologically, mentally too much for us to handle. And so it's just too big and I don't know what to do with it. So you know what? I'm not, I'm not going to say I don't have it. Right. If I, if I pretend it doesn't exist, maybe it'll go away. Maybe it won't. And you know what? But there's something to be said for that.

Maybe that would work because there are people who get diagnosed and then go on to live great lives and can keep things at bay, if they have the right protocol. Well, I didn't have it for the first eight years. I found it, you know, and that allowed me to have my son and I found it for the next 10 years, but then things came back and have come back.

And so I actually started another healing protocol 10 months ago and I'm in the midst of another healing journey. Which kind of peels back layers, right, of what needs to be healed within too. I've been through some healing journeys like that with physical stuff that end up, right, being the most deepest healing I've ever experienced. Can you just kind of explain what MS is?

Because when you mentioned something about energy leaking, I find that to be very interesting. So medically, scientifically, what is it? So MS is demyelination of the nerves. And so myelin is a protective fatty covering, an insulation, if you will, on the nerves. And what happens is the immune system, the body attacks itself for some reason. And it damages that myelin. It frees those wires. Okay.

And so there's scleroses. So multiple scleroses, those scleroses are patches where the nerves have worn away. And more technically, their axons, which are nodes in the nerves, and those axons die out because they're no longer innervated by the nerves, by the process. And so that's what MS is. And MS, it can lead to paralysis because there's patches in my nerves that have worn away. The signals don't transfer. Okay. And so, but yet my body still tries to send them. And so those are, those are like energy leaks. I'm flashing energy, trying to make connection that I'm not. And

so what I did with my Radvikin detox 20 years ago is I fed my body the nutrients that it needed to heal itself. And I'm no different, Shanna, than anyone else. Anyone can do this. It just takes a lot of focus, conviction, and commitment. And the ego gets in the way. The ego blocks us from what we know intuitively is our right way. And that's what the title Shadow Summit means. In the shadow of the summit, summit is the ego. In the shadow of the summit, so in the shadow of the summit. Summit is the ego. In the, cashing out, like living the dream corporate life, you know, and, but it did not shard my body.

So I had to find a different way. And the medical community 20 years ago, they really didn't have answers. They had medications that could slightly slow the progression, but they didn't have ways to bring the nerves back. Okay. Do they know? There is ways it's not as fast as you would want it to be, but you can slowly rebuild your body by putting the right things in it. I'm on a paleo-keto diet right now, high fat, and I'm doing intermittent fasting. And I've read that during intermittent fasting, And I've read that during intermittent fasting,

your body creates stem cells, and so, and those are healing. And how long that takes, I don't know. I'm not on any kind of timeline of, oh my God, you're gonna be healed in a year because you know you're doing this. Okay, I don't know. I'm putting a lot of faith in this process, but I know it's better than the alternative,

which has me slowly declining. And I know I'm getting stronger. Had on a few doctors before talking about stem cell, you know, therapy. One was his son had a rare disease. And it was through the cells I want to say from a placenta. Right, which would be stem cells. Yeah. And then there was another doctor who also had come on and shared with us specifically like, you know, stem cell therapy where they come in and inject it into your body. Right.

I'm not a doctor. These are just things of red. These are just things that have come across that, you know, these are little breadcrumbs, little breadcrumbs that lead me to take steps and take action to try to turn things around. And that's really what all this is about, is about trying to be open to the possibility, and always looking for ways to turn things around. And in the last nine, 10 months, I'm in much better condition.

I'm more mobile than I was. I have very little pain. I still have a little stiffness and tightness, but my nerves are trying to figure out how to release. And then I just purchased a newbie neuro stimulation machine that's going to retrain my nerves through neuroplasticity to find new connections. Our body is, we are completely able to make new connections. That's neuroplasticity. It's finding new ways. So let me ask you, I had some stomach issues, like long haul COVID, you know, issue where I had like that, it was almost like a stomach paralysis, like my stomach wasn't opening so I couldn't

eat. And one of the things that I saw was that they had some sort of device that they could put inside of your stomach, which I wasn't at the point that I needed that, but I was just doing some research. But prior to that guest who she's a psychologist, but she teaches chanting to stimulate the vagus nerve, which then, right, causes, you know, you can control the inflammation of your body. And so one of the things that she sent me was some small, you know, just chance.

There's, there's like five minute chance and it worked. When I was at OHI 20 years ago, I chanted into each of my chakras. You know, it was called toning. And so I hummed or chanted the frequency of each of them, you know, and that helped heal my body, you know, and it helped. And when you say heal your body, I mean, it's all about bringing the body back into balance, you know, and letting the body get back in touch with its natural rhythms. That newbie machine that I just told you, that I just mentioned, that does stimulate the sympathetic nervous system, which is the fight or flight and makes the muscles go. But it also stimulates the parasympathetic. And the parasympathetic is

is that all the vagus nerve processes, all the processes of, you know, respiration, digestion, you know, elimination, just that whole process that is on autopilot. I see it working. I believe it. Yeah. And so you mentioned that. And so, so that is, you know, I know that healing is not just about sympathetic. It's also the parasympathetic, you know, which is behind the scenes, you know, you know?

And so, and you know, it is behind the scenes, you know, you know, and so, and, you know, it's like a therapist, a physical therapist who tries to repeatedly do the same thing again and again, to get the function back in the muscles. But at the same time, underneath all that there's some neurological processing that could be happening at the same time and stimulated. They need to be happening at the same time and stimulated. And these functional techniques may not always stimulate these neurological processes the body needs. And you need both.

You need both. Let me ask you something. When you were avoiding and in denial, you said you were almost taunting your body in some way or this disease. I mean, yeah, I'm sure you were getting healthy and strong by doing all of these things, but were you really loving your body? Were you really in a relationship with your body

as you are today? No, no, I was really detached from my body. No, I might. Very detached from my body. You know, and it was just the vessel that was taking me through my day. And I ate okay. I exercised like crazy. But I didn't have the seven things that I needed to have in balance, to have my life in balance. When I was diagnosed, it was all about work hard so it's a good job, make a lot of money.

Those were the two biggest things. Have a strong mind and the rational mind could solve everything, but that's not in touch with the emotion, intuition know, intuition. Yeah, right. Have a good job. Those are the four things. And I was like trying to maximize those four things and I did. But it also put me in a ditch. Right. So listening to your body, that discernment, whether it is physically or spiritually for myself anyways, has been like a superpower for me. I mean, it's like, you know, as soon as something comes over me, you know, I want to sit with it and kind of talk to it. But but I talked to my MS. That's part of my story.

You know, I mean, I did, you know. That's part of my story. I talked to MS. I wasn't angry or there was no animosity. That's not the way to heal. You never were in the beginning even? I was scared. I was just scared. I wasn't angry and because I had to listen to what it was trying to teach me. And again, it's not me being angry. Anger doesn't do anyone anything. It's a release, but it really doesn't solve any problems. It doesn't.

And it's, again, that's wasted energy. So emotion, that's at the emotional vibrant. And so if you're wasting energy at the emotional vibrant by spewing anger, you're leaking energy. And you know, it takes a lot of consciousness to figure out, okay, how do I be with this? So that it serves me. Yeah. Well, how do you love your body that is fighting itself? love your body that is fighting itself. Right. Right. Right. Like, love is the answer to a fight? What? Love is not the answer to a fight. Is it?

Maybe it is. I don't know. I love that. You know, I realized over the past few years, I'm very affected by the solar flares. And humans are actually. But you know, I had it in my head, John, that this was like the worst thing that's happening. Like why the sun is terrible. You know, it kills me. My energy is drained. I can't sleep. I'm cranky. The world is all acting crazy and I'm blaming everything on these damn solar flares. Right. The electromagnetic energy, right? That's what... Yeah, the radiation. Yeah. Coming into our field. So someone had suggested to me,

maybe you should try to align with the energy of the sun rather than try to resist it. So I was like, you know what, you're right. Colorado has about as beautiful sunsets as anywhere. And so I just sat with it, sat with its energy, stopped resisting it. As I did, it was like I felt free. I sun gazed.

I stared at the sun during my healing. So I had a watch that I can measure the UV radiation. I made sure I did it times of the day, which is starting an hour before sunset, the UV radiation drops to zero. So I knew I was doing it at the right times of the day that wouldn't damage my optic nerve. And so staring at the sun really helps to normalize hormones and bring the body back in balance. And so again, that's what my healing journey started 20 years ago, was trying to figure out how to get my body back in balance because I was a top or a record, I was a record spinning at 45 when I should have been spinning at 30 RPMs.

You know, I was spinning just way too fast. And so how do I bring my body back in balance? Like balance to eating all the right foods, you know, stopping the sugar, stopping the gluten. Gluten is wheat protein. It's tough for the body to metabolize. It can create unwanted consequences in our digestive system. You know, you know, and so, you know, things like dairy, casein, which is the protein dairy, also creates a hard time for the body.

Yeah, so. I was like, as I get older, I can tell that. I know, so I've just had to learn all the things that don't serve. And that's, that's the game of life. It's more important to figure out what you don't like and what doesn't serve you and what you like and what what does certain. Or it's equally as important. Both are very important. Do they know what it causes, MS? So your question is what causes the body to attack itself? And, you know, yes, they know. They do know there's something in the gut. Okay. And, you know, there's research that's come out of the University of California, San Francisco,

that talks about, you know, patient, MS patients having different gut bacteria than healthy people. And so something shifts in the gut of people with MS. But then you take that point further and the medical community knows that all health, well, no, it's starting to know, that all health begins in the gut. And so if something goes haywire in the gut, that's what causes it to go haywire in the body. And I think people know it, whether it has actually been clinically studied and trialed to prove it, that hasn't happened. That hasn't happened. Because if it's just a matter of diet and chanting, you'll never know. Right, which I follow someone, Dr. Terry Walls, who has MS. She had secondary progressive MS, you know, 14 years ago was in a recumbent wheelchair.

And, you know, and now she is teaching her body to jog again. Wow. And that's from the age of 54 to 68. And she's doing amazing work to demystify MS. She's doing amazing work to demystify her MS. And it's trailblazers like her that are gonna change the medical community. The medical community hangs on and holds on

to what they know works, which you don't fault them for that because it's do no harm. And you have to do things that you know work. And so, you know, some of these things are outside what has been clinically proven and accepted, but that doesn't mean that it's not valid. And they often are just addressing the symptoms and not

and never looking for the root cause, which I'm just that type of person. You know, if I hear something, I'm like, where did that come from? How did it get there? You know, what is the root of this? Right. And the typical that's true, you know, because that's, that's what we want as patients is we want we do like they're not wrong doctors, because we go to them and say, fix this, fix this. Here's my power. You fix this. And we're not paying them to heal you. We're not. If you want to get in a relationship with a doctor around healing, then you're going to need to pay a functional medical doctor.

I mean, I've got a functional medical team and they're helping me heal from the inside out. And it's a longer relationship. It's more costly. Yes. But we can't blame their medical community because we're not paying them to heal us. We're paying them to fix our symptom in the moment. I've got this. Fix me. Okay. You have to be your own advocate.

You have to be your greatest cheerleader. You. The responsibility does not lie with the doctors. The responsibility does not lie with the medical community Responsibility does not lie with another big need. They're not responsible for keeping us healthy. They're not. Yeah, we've been seeking everything outside of us, right? We seek religion outside of us, forgiveness, love,

and healing. And I have found that all those things are right here in you. Yes. Shannon, you. Yes. Shannon, you nailed that. You nailed that. I talk about that a lot too. It's not external.

The answer is not finding the fountain of youth. Is the cure to MS is not gonna be a pill. I don't think. If there's one thing I've learned from Dr. Cherry Walls, the cure to MS is lifestyle change and change all your inputs. If you change all your inputs, you change the output. It's that simple. Garbage in, garbage out. It's a computer axiom where if you put bad data into a system, you're going to get bad data out. I developed software. And so, we're the exact same way. If you put bad stuff in, you can't expect to get good stuff out. Can you?

No. Right? I mean, doesn't it hold that in order for you to get good stuff out, you have to put good stuff in. And that's like, it's so easy. It is. Okay, it's an easy thought. Yeah, but it's the difficulty is actualizing that and making that happen, especially with all of the external demands of culture, telling us, oh, you should do this. This is fun. This is good. This tastes good. Oh, wow. You should do this. Right. This is affordable. Right. Right. You know, I just had on Brett Casper, hero political gut. And you should listen to that episode. It's fighting a huge monster. Right. And so I think that by the

end of that episode, how I felt was again, I cannot trust that they're going to create a whole new system with healthier food. I have to take responsibility. I can't trust that they're going to take out some of these very toxic things that I'm feeding myself, my children. I'm going to have to do it myself because that's the only way I would, you know, I mean, I need to learn how to be self-sufficient in growing food and, you know, making choices. Even if it is a little bit more expensive to go to like a natural grocery, how much are you gonna end up spending on your health down the road? I mean, I grew up, I remember chicken nuggets in a styrofoam box.

I mean, I remember that I was on my way to New Orleans. It was like the new thing. And I was like, these are the best things. Chicken crack in a box. That's so good. Isn't it interesting how much we could do when we're younger? I mean, you could party all night long, not sleep and get up and go to work like it's nothing. You can eat all day. Yeah, yeah. Body just burns it.

Yeah, but it's listening to your body. I didn't listen to my body. It was about a year ago. Yeah. into my body. It was about a year ago. Was it? Yeah. I had, I, well, I think I probably had COVID and I ended up because I kept going like, like you, right? I kept going, I kept working and I talked for a living. And so I had, I got laryngitis and it was forever laryngitis. And I kept popping ibuprofen because it would take down the inflammation. I could talk for an hour. I was good. And the next thing I know, I'm in the hospital with acute ulcer colitis.

And what came from that actually was a miracle because I had to cleanse because I had to do a colonoscopy. I hadn't ate anything in four days while I was in the hospital and I come out. I hadn't tried to clean. I hadn't been here in four days. Like, oh my God, my house is a disaster. Don't you guys know how to do anything around here? And they're like, sit down, sit down. I'm like, no, I have more energy than I ever had. And I hadn't slept or ate in four days, but I had rid of all that, all those toxins that was keeping me in this fatigue fogged place. I felt like brand new. At the end of my four month detox and cleanse, Chi, 20 years ago, I felt like someone shot me out of a cannon.

I went in shuffling my feet like an 80 year old man. I went in like that. And my mind was cloudy, my body was stiff and sore. And I went out as a limber 16-year-old ready to take on life. And that was 20 years ago. And now I'm trying to figure out what in that can I use in this next process? Because this next process is I need to rebuild my body in a different way. I need to get a lot more protein, a lot more healthy fat,

and I need to reduce the sugar to cut the inflammation. And that's just, you know, raw food and that whole process worked for me 20 years ago. But, you know, I'm in a different season in my life. And so I'm not, I'm not holding tight to that old way of being because my body needs different stuff to make it strong and keep it healthy. And so, like, I'm not wedded to any one protocol. I'm trying to figure out what is the best way to feed my body so that I can live a great life. Yeah.

What are the symptoms that you experience with MS? That I experience now? Like, that's like- Is it a spectrum? I've had so many symptoms. Yeah. Is it a spectrum? I've had so many symptoms. Yeah. I mean, there's varying degrees of like paralysis and soreness and inflammation, you know, so I really know what it feels like for my body to be inflamed.

And so when my body's inflamed, it's like they're static, you know, like static running in the background all the time so that my nerves aren't sending signals to my muscles and processing information crisply. That's one symptom and minor paralysis. My legs don't work the way they should. but it's coming back. Okay. I'm doing things in physical therapy that I couldn't do two months ago. I'm like and I might my old person like, oh my God, you know that they're like John, you, you're like an MS unicorn. I love that. What you're doing here, oh my God. There are six doctors, there's six ways

to keep your physical body in shape, you know, which is food, water, exercise, sleep, sunshine and breathing. Those are the six things that if you understand where they are, that's your physical vibrant, your emotional vibrant, it's your feeling energy, and where are you allowing that feeling energy to go? You know, and just and all the other energies, you know, right? Will desire working out of that rather than obligation. And if you're so busy, sometimes you forget to breathe, you forget to drink water that day. You're not eating, right? So

you're losing all of the things that give you life. Right. And it's just giving voice to all these energies. giving voice to all these energies. That's what we are. That's all our life experience really is. Yeah. And so, yeah. Do you feel like you live life much richer and more in the present moment, that impermanence right that life could change at any moment. Oh my god. Oh my god. So much more. It's crazy. Yeah. I try to be as present as possible. I try to live in the moment. You know yeah I do plan things out. You know I plan things out in my calendar you know because I gotta work you know I gotta I gotta I gotta in my calendar. Because I got to work. I got to run my day. Wow, that's impressive.

I do run my day. But I don't do too much planning ahead. Yeah, one day at a time. There are some things on the schedule. But it's what's important for me to make a priority for tomorrow. And I'll, and I'll figure that out. And whereas before, like I used to have everything so planned out to the, to the minute, you know, before it happened.

And I tried that. I try to really pack my day to get the most out of my day, you know, before it happened. And I tried to really pack my day to get the most out of my day. You know, really push myself. But now I'm kind of backing off myself. And there are certain rocks that I've put in my day that to take care of. But yeah, you know, it's more of focus on what comes what needs to be priority. Because what's really priority tomorrow may be different than what I think it is right now. You know, my dad worked himself to death, you know, and I, I know that many people know my dad as being such a hard worker. You know, and I too, I have a lot of that in me.

And I really have to stop myself from working 24 hours a day because I would. It's hard to find that balance. But, you know, I mean, he was shorted half of his life, you know, because he worked so hard and he was too busy, you know, and, you know, it led to many heart problems. He didn't know how to breathe. You know, it's one of the reasons why I fell into my journey, because I was like, he had no tools, right? He had no tools for stress, anxiety, you know, and it came down to it.

I just was like, man, I need to learn some tools to get this stress under control. Besides the medication I was on for seven years, because that just numbed it. Right. It was still there. Yeah. I don't think that's living, you know, working and paying bills and working and paying bills. And, you know, I don't think that that's life. Life is so beautiful. I mean, you miss nature, you know, when you're busy. Nature's been my greatest teacher or you surrender to MS or cancer. Right. Disease. Right, right and I got no surrender in me. I believe you. No surrender. No, go down fighting. Go down.

Trying to find an answer. Like I'm running the angles. I'm always, you know, is it a step forward? Is it a step back? Is it a step? Is it a step down? Which direction? You know, doing this way.

Do I need to zag down down? Which direction, you know, do I need to go this way? Do I need to zag down here? What do I need to do to constantly get my life going in an upward trajectory? Because life can go like this, you know, and be all over. And so there is a way to get life to go like this, you know, and be all over. And so there is a way to get life to go like this, you know, and, you know, and that's what I do with clients. You know, I work with these seven vibrance

and help people get more conscious about how they're living their life and how they're using these energies. You know, your seven vibrance are for anything in life. Can you go over them one more time? I mean, it could be for illness, it could be just for you to plan your day, it could be for your whole entire life. Right, they're like a compass, they're like an operating system.

The seven vibrance are your native background operating system running your life. And the seven are physical. Okay. And I've talked about that. We've talked about emotional. We've talked about professional. We talked about financial. It's at the heart chakra.

You know, financial, you're like, financial at the heart, money at the heart. I don't love you. Right? What's that? No. It's authentic love and service at the heart and not trying to contrive or manipulate. Okay. And so when you serve authentically out of love and service and don't try to manipulate or contrive, you'll get the outcome you want. And if there's an even open exchange, both parties will get what they want. And that's why there's also a lot of inherent trust here. That is the key energy or currency at this financial library. Right, by giving and exchanging and receiving.

Right, and trust. And so why do relationships go bad? Well, because trust. It's insane. It's so simple. And then the next is social, the words at the throat. is social, the words at the throat, and the words attract or repel people. There's some people who say divisive, nasty, mean things. Right. They think that's the right way. Well, if I hear that, that does not attract me. I run from that, you know?

And so my words and how I use them to interact and attract people are very important. And then the mind, are your words positive or negative? What time state are you in? Are you in the past, the present, or the future? Are you solution focused? Are you trying to run the angles of all the steps, right? Left, right? Trying to run the angles rather than thinking, oh no, I know the way, the ego. The ego can be a big enemy.

It can be. And then the other energy is connection, which is spiritual. And that's what, like the essence, like come on, the essence of spiritual is connection. That's all we as people, like one want our death. We're not thinking about how much money we got. We're not. We're thinking about the people we love we're not thinking about how much money we got. You know, we're not. We're thinking about the people we love. We're thinking about the connection that we have. And that's really what makes it all worthwhile.

That's beautiful. I didn't know that they were aligned with the chakras. I think that that's absolutely beautiful. Yeah. It's amazing how many things. that they were aligned with the chakras. I think that that's absolutely beautiful. It's amazing how many things. And like you also mentioned the different vibrations and toning that you can do. To frequency of each chakra.

Yeah, has its own vibe. Of vibration and energy, just like each vibrant has its own frequency. And so you also see in my graphics, they each have a color and so it aligns with the color of that frequency of that chakra. So red, orange, yellow, green, orange, yellow, green, blue. And yeah, blue, indigo, violet. Yeah, sorry. If we are vibration and we are energy, then it is that that heals us as well.

I mean, of course, I have found that much of nature has all the answers, you know, when it comes to healing. It's like, because we're the same. We are the same. And when you were talking, I was imagining, and I'm sure you've seen the picture before where it's like the lungs and all of its nerves look just like trees and the roots. Like the trees itself and the branches, but also like the roots. Yeah, right, all the branches, right?

Amazing. All the patterns, all the patterns are there. You know what I mean? Yeah, and then you also think like those great old trees, you know, that have gone through so many storms. I have this one picture in Pacamans Parish. I had visited there during my ancestry and it was like the hugest tree I've ever seen in my entire life.

And it had been uprooted and the roots were insane. I mean, it just, it finally gave way, you know, and that tree had to have been a thousand years old. I mean, they know when to let go. And also they go through their cycles. So as we do, they know when to bend and they know when to break, you know, yeah. Isn't that amazing? Yeah.

Yeah. But, and I, and I also think it gives hope that like yourself, you know, there's been times where you've gone up and down in this journey. And that's okay. You know, that's much as life is. I'm so excited for you to see what you're going to do next. I am too. It's amazing. I mean, and I published my 10th anniversary edition, which I've got an epilogue, you know, that kind of brings people up to speed on my last 20 years. I'm also in the process of another book, which is my current healing journey, which is like, you think I learned stuff the first time? Oh my God. Yeah.

Cause I have so much wisdom, the fear, I don't have the fear. Like, yes, there's moments of doubt, but it's gonna happen. It may not happen at the timeframe that I want, but it is happening and I am healing. I believe that, you know, there's been so many limitations that have been put on us.

You know, we only, like, even when it comes down to our senses, you only have this many senses. You only have this, you only have that, you only live to this, you know, you have, and it's like, they took her power away with all those limitations so I love that you're kind of reclaiming that and I believe in you. Thank you I am you know and this has been this has been a wonderful conversation it's been awesome. This has been a wonderful conversation. It's been awesome. Thank you. Tell everybody where they can find you.

Yeah, they can find me at vibrant, V-I-B-R-A-N-T-U, the letter U. So vibrantuacademy.com. Awesome. or get my book Shadow Summit. It's on Amazon and get the audiobook version. Oh, you have that? Oh, that's good. I read it. So it's my voice. So cool. Yeah. And so that's me. It's been a pleasure getting to know you. Yeah, I really appreciate our time. It's been a pleasure getting to know you. Yeah, I really appreciate our time. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Bye bye. See you next time.