Sense of Soul - Losing My Religion With MythVision’s Derek Lambert

Episode Date: May 31, 2025

Today on Sense of Soul, we have Derek Lambert, the inquisitive mind behind MythVision. In this episode, Derek shares his personal journey from pain to purpose—overcoming addiction and childhood trauma—and how his quest for truth led him to challenge his own faith and explore new horizons, thinking beyond the confines of dogmatic beliefs.   Through MythVision podcast, Derek engages with like-minded seekers and scholars from diverse religious and cultural backgrounds, uncovering fascinating connections between ancient narratives, mythology, heretical and unorthodox ideas—sparking thought-provoking discussions and deeper insights. Mythvision TV Channel: youtube.com/@mythvisionTV Website:  mythvisionpodcast.com FB: facebook.com/MythVision IG: https://www.instagram.com/dereklambert

Hey Soulseekers, it's Shanna. Journey with me to discover how people around the world awaken to their true sense of soul. Now go grab your coffee and open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Hey, nice to meet you! It's time to awaken. Hey, nice to meet you. Nice to finally meet you as well. I'm super excited to have you. I've wanted to talk to you for a long time

and I've been following your YouTube for years now. And I just want to just start by saying thank you so much. Thank you. And I just want to just start by saying thank you so much because, man, I feel that you definitely were one of a few, you know, where I was able to find information that I was seeking and you just kind of made me hungry for more, which I appreciate that. Yeah. And I still follow you. So, you know, that's a good thing.

That's good. I am pretty critical sometimes, but I still follow you, so that's a good thing. That's good, I am pretty critical sometimes, but. I love that. But truth is, at the bottom of the barrel, I'm a people person, I'm a human, I care, I know that people are where they're at, and I'm okay with that. It's the arrogance, it's the, I am the king of the jungle,

my religion's true, just poo-pooing on everyone am the king of the jungle. My religion's true. Everyone just poo-pooing on everyone else and all of their stuff. And to me, it's like, if you're going to let your flower bloom, let everyone's flower bloom. And if I'm going to be critical, here's the cool thing. Most people who have another flower, most, it's usually Abrahamic faiths that are not okay. There is the only flower that should bloom, right? When it's everyone else who has a blooming flower, they don't care that I'm critical, even of their own flower.

They're like, okay, whatever, you know, it doesn't bother them. But the Christian specifically, and of course Islamic, if you will, there's a much more control aspect of needing everyone to be on my narrative. And that's what I do combat most of all, you know, some. Yeah. I tried to explain this to my mom last night. Actually,

it's kind of funny because I told her the story of the cave, right? And Plato's Republic. And she was like, well, I think that we like to look at, you know, everything. And I was like, as long as it's in your cave. Exactly. You know, as long as it's a shadow on their wall. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm a recovering Catholic, which right before we got on, I don't know, I was getting dressed and I saw that you just released a YouTube with about Paul's letters. And I was like, listening to it before we got on. And I was like, I gotta go back and listen to this.

Like I gotta have an interview with him now. Yeah, it's a controversial one. It's a scholar who thinks Paul may not have existed and it's fun to, it's a mental exercise. No one knows, right? And that's kind of life is the unknown and being okay with being not sure about a lot of things, you know? Yeah, yeah. I've definitely had a lot of guests that, you know, I was like, well, I don't

know, but I'm so open now to receive anything, to listen to anyone's ideas. And I think that that was something I didn't have before, right? I can relate. I can relate. We're still on a journey. We're still learning. We're still, we're always going to be, I think. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of the people who I talk to, there's a story of how they got to where they are. And a lot of times it's pain to purpose, even with myself.

You know, a lot of grief, a lot of breaking patterns of ancestral trauma really truly. And, you know, and I saw that you also had some pain in your past and you don't have to speak out on it if you don't want to. Oh, I'm happy. Oh, good. Okay, because I do feel like being vulnerable is what helps everyone connect. I agree. I am open book. It's like, It's like telling your mom's side of the family, but not mentioning your dad's or vice versa.

You cannot not see it as part of the path. And I'm thankful for the suffering that helped me to get to where I am. At the same time, you know, you wish things, you know, you look at them and go, I wish I didn't do that, or I wish this, but that's life. And then the other part is, it's like, you gotta be thankful for what you have.

You can't change the past. And it's like, you know, if it weren't for that, would I be where I'm at? Would I think what I think? Would I be free? So the trauma of being born into a house with an alcoholic father and a mother who was fighting to keep things together,

but in effect also becomes sick because of the partner's state of mind and the vicious cycle of that life. And I feel like there's two Derrick's because of being forged in that kind of fire. The same with my brother. I feel like there's two of us. Maybe there's more than that, but there's a definite yin and yang me due to the trauma side and the dad being alcoholic werewolf at night, usually is when it happened after work.

He was a functioning alcoholic. He made it through the military somehow. And at night, the werewolf would come out. And then at day, it was apologetic dad. I would, I love you unconditionally and I need you to know that son. But at night it was every name under the book calling me, you know, bag, everything that was just, you know, really, really horrific, my whole life and like my whole youth.

And he would go into this state and then it would be crying and I loved him, he's my hero. You know, when you do this over and over and over, almost, I'm not gonna say every day, but like there was patterns of it happening periodically all the time. And then we'd have to leave the house, it'd get so bad. You see how that kind of household,

and then I was really like excelled in sports, were genetically gifted, so we have the advantage of being really good at what we do. And it was soccer and baseball, mom coached us. And then high school came, and I feel like somewhere in high school, I was, it was either Jesus Hardcore, which gave me my methadone in spirituality.

I'm gonna call it methadone. For those who don't know, methadone is a treatment for people who struggle with addiction, mainly opiates, though people have used it for other reasons. Even people with pain, they sometimes would prescribe them this. But it was invented in the German World War II,

I believe, if not one, but I think around, the Germans invented it because they had a highly addictive opiate, you know, from the East, they were getting lots of opiates for the soldiers during combat and they were making super soldiers with like meth, everything. They're the ones who created meth, by the way. So,

I knew they did acid too, they did, cause you know, that's the whole MK ultra thing, right? The acid is what. I don't know too much about that. I just know that the meth, and I know for a fact about the methadone, which by the way, it sounds the same. It's not one was invented to help with opiate withdrawal

and to help a soldier maintain in light of those withdrawals because the East cut them off. They no longer supply them with opiates. So everybody's hooked and now they're withdrawing and they're not functionable. So now the scientist invented something called methadone. Long story short, I know that I derailed there, but I've known a lot of people who've gotten on

methadone and it's very potent. And it's like a crutch. It keeps them from going back to using the street drugs, which is safer than the street drugs most of the time, because you can at least function, go to work, try to do something. Whereas if you're injecting and you're nodding out all day and you're dying from overdoses, you're not gonna live. So it's better than the street heroin. Well, with Jesus, it was like that. It was like, I'd be addicted to doing Jesus in the Bible and really get into it.

So you went just to Jesus, but it was the same pattern, same addiction. Same pattern, same addiction, constantly going to Jesus and the word of God and spirituality in that respect and worship and all of this and thinking this was the cure. And I was getting high in the spirit. I was getting high in music on Jesus and really just putting it all into Christ. And then went to college and all that. I'm skipping ahead, met my wife in high school, and a long history of me struggling and her having to put up with me.

So when someone asked me later, how could you forgive your father? You know, these questions of like, how could you forgive your father? I'm like, how could I not? I became him. Now I didn't quite become him like that. There's some things I never did that he did.

But there were times I blacked out and switched from opiates to alcohol and then would do things I blacked out and harmed people physically because I'm enraged, drunk, and don't even remember doing things. So I know, like how could I not forgive him when I know I didn't mean to hurt people

and I hurt people. So like it's crazy, but when you think about it, you're like, I can't, that's like judging the guy you were, you literally became the guy that you, no, I couldn't do that. And I'm at peace with it. And I know my dad never meant to harm anybody, you know. He was sick.

He's sick. So that's that part of it. And then going to church and being like, how come I'm addicted to drugs? And why isn't the Holy Spirit like fixing this, empowering me to not go back? And they would tell me demons and this and that. And I'd be like, finally, they were like,

no, you know, you have a sickness. You have a medical condition. And I think that played a role in me wanting to be more scientific in my worldview because it was not the shaman says, the spiritual leader says, the Pope says, the priest says, the cult leader says, that authority in the spiritual says, it was look, test, repeat, you can observe,

you can actually feel, you can actually know that this is a path that can work and get you better. And when I realized that it wasn't me demonically, but it was really, Derek, you have an illness. And if we apply treatment to that illness, you'll see that you were never a bad human to begin with. And then I was like, whoa, I'm a good person. And I always was a good good person even though my New Testament wanted me to believe that Paul You know that the flesh and that I am like a wicked sinner deserving punishment I

Didn't deserve punishment. Do you see like my value? Yeah, you know, I've been an Al-anon for Well almost two decades. Wow. So I can relate really truly with you as a child and also as a partner like with your mother. And so, you know, it's interesting, I've noticed over the years talking to people who have similar backgrounds. They are the people who learn to really truly be people, people, or, you know, be people, people.

Yeah. Because they had to read the room when they walked in it, they had to say, okay, what am I coming home to? Let me sense the energy in this room. You know, is it inviting or Are we are we walking on each shelves tonight? You know, and so you had to become very in tune with people around you, and read them very well. And that that became those very strong empaths who didn't realize well, they were, you know, we're going through life, they were taking on, you know, a lot of the things around them unconsciously.

I think that, now I don't know this, but I feel like women, me and Ryan, my partner, have talked about this a lot. We always talk about like a mother sense or a- Intuition. The intuition, right? And if I did it scientifically, and if I wasn't trying to answer it in some spiritual sense, if I did it scientifically, and if I wasn't trying to answer it

in some spiritual sense, and I did it scientifically, I would say women have been in that eggshell position or that very keen awareness of things that men have been oblivious to and evolved with that sense and awareness that we have not. And so for who knows how long women have been in tune with that, and so we feel like it's a predictive power.

It's like how do they know? And it's like because they're, even in the eyebrow lifting, even in the tones, we don't get it often, but I feel like I picked up some of that in light of what you're describing, but that's only within this life. Now imagine if I passed the gene and that was being like women do, right?

There's something about it, I think, to it. But I mean, I can't prove. I know, I absolutely agree. That's it. I mean, and then it was kind of, I'd say almost combed out of us in some way as we weren't taught to trust that, you know, we're listening to male doctors tell us how to raise our children and what to do

when our bodies are like, Oh, but I really want to go to the baby. It's crying, you know, and the doctors are like, don't do it, you know, or you know, books, you know, written, not that I'm, I have gone through a phase where I was like, the divine feminine's rising. So it's all about, you know, but I realized the importance of the masculine to come forth and realize exactly what you're saying. I mean, that is very beautiful. What you just said and be able to have that awareness. And it is, it's something in our like epigenetics.

And so where does it stop? It stops. It stopped with you. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. What a transformation. He has to, I mean, that's the cool thing.

They're beautiful. Yeah, it just took him a long, long time, you know? And it didn't take me as long to get to where I'm now, but I also went down a darker path, I think, quicker than he ever did with opiates and heroin and stuff toward the end. But yeah, I agree. And I think part of that discovery of myself as well

is realizing how much I thought I knew, but it didn't work for me as a Christian. Like I thought I had the answer and I was told the truth. And I just so happen to be fortunate to be born in America in the perfect religion and the right book with the right guy, with the right right and your bubble pops at some point when you actually are being honest with yourself and going, let me surrender a bit of my ego here and say, what if I'm wrong and not just say like, Oh, I could be wrong for the sake of that person over there just to say it.

No, I mean like legitimately forget everyone else and what they think. Like what if I'm really wrong? And if I am, I want to know. And I also want to know what is right or the best I can. And then that's the journey. I think that is we're all trying to, I don't know, not everybody, but I know I'm on this path of trying to just what works the best and what is the best for us. Cause if you take my path, I don't think there is the answer. I think there's better answers than the,

and I think love is one of those things that we do see in ancient religions. They were tapping into something I think love is one of those things that we do see in ancient religions. They were tapping into something I think that is good, but then there's some bad stuff, you know, along the way that humans have picked up or that we need to try to move beyond, you know. Right. It always goes back to me when I realized that the word heresy in Greek meant choice. That really stuck with me forever, because it's like we didn't have a choice. Right. And it seems like now that has opened up.

I know my kids have kids from 27 to 13. Wow. I mean, they have much more choices than I did and they see the world differently. And they have the curiosity that I didn't have. You know, I mean, I chose my children's religion before they were even born. Right? Like to think of that is so insane to me now. But also, I'm a different mom now to my younger kids than I am to my older.

So it's so interesting to see what my older kids have to mom now to my younger kids than I am to my older. So it's so interesting to see what my older kids have to undo and how my younger ones are and letting them lead me. I mean, I even chose my kids sports before they were born. We're sports family too. But yeah, it's pretty interesting. I know you have children as well. You new younger generations are less conditioned. I agree, I don't choose mine for my kids. If they want to choose a religion, clearly if it was harmful, I would like, if I, son, I really wanna educate you on this.

Let me explain to you why this idea, because the fear, I don't want them to end up accidentally into a fear mongering type religion, but I also don't want them to end up accidentally into a fear-mongering type religion, but I also don't control or try to condition them on what they should believe. They do hear me openly discuss ideas that I talk about, of course, but I do not at all push them to think they can make up their own mind. I'm not going to tell them they can't be a Christian. I'm not going to tell them they can't believe in whatever. Me and my wife, we just don't, that's one of the things we don't do.

At one point, you bet that was it. So it's interesting, we have an 18 year old, then we have a 15 and the other one's turning 12 soon. And with the oldest, I was extremely Jesus freak. You know what I mean? I taught Sunday school. Yes, bringing him to Jesus. Exactly, exactly.

Isn't that insane to think? And yeah, so they have to undo a lot. And I remember my oldest son coming to me, Derek, and saying, gosh, why did you teach me all that stuff? And now you're like totally against it. And I was just, you know, it was very valid. And I felt for him. I was angry for a long time walking around my house screaming for 2000 years, you know, and just

being angry. I felt like I did have religious trauma syndrome. Yeah, like I was in and I also want to make clear that doesn't mean I was abused necessarily in the church, but coming out of it, I felt all the stages of grief. And yeah, it took me a long time. And finally, I've made peace and just like everyone has their own journey. And I'm fine. I know exactly what you mean. Like, and I'm sure there's a chip on my shoulder today. I mean, clearly, you know, but I did go, I did go through that as well. It was more like a relief. I was able to land the plane. It wasn't me running around the house yelling, you know, how angry, but it was a slow, I'm glad it was slow and it was, it was

steady. I'm glad it wasn't all at once because I don't that could have been bad. Yeah, I would like to know how you began or what was like your first moment. You're like, holy crap, because I know I had that moment. It was shortly after I asked myself how much I believed in was I just told to believe in of that. How much had he actually experienced to be my truth? And when I picked up the Bible for the first time and read it with those new eyes, I was like, oh my God, wait, what? I've never even heard of this before.

You know, like, we're hybrids? I mean, that was like my first, you know, like, what is this? I was flipped. There's a lot. Yeah. For me, I think when it started, we have to go back. I think we have to go back to even the first times

we engaged other versions of our Christianity. I think those were little seeds. We're still in, we're still in the garden playing with Christianity, but like the little seeds were, you mean speaking in tongues is not true today? That that ended in the first century? My whole church believed that the only way you had the Holy Spirit was when you spoke in tongues to prove you had it.

They're over here saying that no, there is no speaking in tongues today that ended back here in the first century. Huh. So as a Christian, I'm going, I think it was just seeing the diversity and it wasn't just that, oh, well, you have your flavor, we have ours. It was yours is wrong.

Ours is the correct Christianity. Which it's, yeah, it's a heretical or even like potentially heretical like, no, no, and don't do that. It's not factual. My pastor knows the word of God, right? Yours doesn't these kinds of, yeah. So I think it starts back there for me because then what happens is you go, well, I need to know which one is the right one. That is just how I work. And you go, okay, well, I need to know

which one's the right one. So you start to explore and then you start to journey and you go for it. And then you find out there's 20 other versions of two of their fighting. And eventually you're online, if you're still into the religious sphere researching and you see the debates happening

between good intentioned believers who think they're on the right track and they're going at it between, is it workspace salvation, or is it completely once saved always saved, or is it can you lose your salvation, or is it Catholicism, or is it Eastern Orthodox, or is it Protestantism, or is it the word lose your salvation? Or is it Catholicism or is it Eastern Orthodox or is it Protestantism or is it the word of God only this

or is it, and the list goes on. And were you predestined? Exactly, did God predestine you or is it complete free will or is it, and the list goes on and on and on. And I went through all of these different versions trying to find the one. And then I think eventually I came to a position

where I heard a Christian idea that Jesus actually returned in the first century, 70 AD. Now this is a heretical, heretical, heretical group of Christians. So we are Christians, okay? I felt like we were really the most authentic actually because Jesus said. Now, if you're arguing with a Christian and you go,

I think this is what Paul meant and I think this is what this meant. And then someone goes, Jesus said, and then you say what Jesus' words were, you're a Christian. You're gonna fight against Jesus' words? Do you see what I'm saying? So-

Oh yeah, not just the story told. No, and when you have the words of Jesus said, and you believe those words truly, that he says, for example, this generation will not pass away or some of you standing here will not taste death until the son of man comes in the kingdom and repays each man according to their deeds, right? With the angels of God and Matthew and all that.

Well, when you hear Jesus say that that was supposed to happen before all the 12 died, that that was supposed to happen within that generation. You believe that he meant that generation and that that was within their lifetimes. So I'm looking at the rest of the Christian world going, Jesus said it was gonna happen then. This is toward the end of my walk, right?

Where I'm like thinking I might have discovered it. Now I don't have all the nuts and bolts, okay? But I think this version of Christianity, 99% it made more sense of Jesus words, but this is the problem. If the end happened back then, why is there evil still? Why is there still death and suffering, right? So what happens in your brain is you have to go,

well, when you said the end was gonna happen, it didn't mean what we expected it to mean. So like it's cognitive dissonance really. We reinterpret the meaning of words to make it fit so that Jesus wasn't wrong in our mind. And that's when I went, okay, I'm a full preterist. Jesus said it was gonna happen back then. And I believe it because Jesus said it.

Well, I came across this guy who had left, he did not believe these ideas anymore, but he had stopped believing in the God of the Bible. And he wrote me out of nowhere, I'll never forget. And he's like, hey bro, I've been watching you. I've seen you in the groups. Love to chat with you sometime, man. I see you're impassionate and love to share with you

some things I learned. And I'm like, I like learning things. Cool, what's up, man? And I'm connecting with new people in this arena. And he's like, look, I felt I could pick up the sense, right? You know, you know people and I felt like this guy's not like the rest of people. He seems a little bit more like, like he doesn't believe or something like something's up. So I just was like, look, are you an atheist or something? Like, what are you, you know, I'm sensitive to these

things and he's like, yes, but I'm not here to make you not believe. I don't care. Which is not usually the kind of pattern a lot of atheists to have online. They wanna make you not believe. They wanna make you, right, yeah. And that's what made me actually trust him. Was at least enough to listen and hang out

and be friends with him. But I had my walls up, you know. I was like, but I'm willing to talk to you. He's like, I don't care that you believe. In fact, it doesn't bother me at all. And in fact, I just want to share with you some interesting things about discoveries I found. Like, okay, well, what did you find? So he starts to talk about Samson in the Bible and the strong man Heracles. And he compared them and he's like, why is the strongest man, who is the strongest man who ever lived?

Is what he asked me or something. And I was like, Samson, cause I know the Bible pretty good, you know? And he's like, no, it's Heracles. And I'm like, well, the Bible says it's Samson. I know about that guy Heracles a little, I don't know much about him though, you know? And he's like, well, yeah, it is Samson for the Jews.

It's Heracles for the Greeks. It's Melchart for the Phoenicians. It's Gilgamesh for the Mesopotamians. And I'm like, what are you trying to get at, bro? Like, what are you trying to tell me right now? Like, I don't get what you're doing. Exactly. My mind went, oh my gosh, this is what happened.

I'm just gonna be total transparent of what my mind did. I went, God is bigger. Way bigger, way bigger than this one story that I was taught. And God got so big that I lost fear of like that one God controls your life, watches you and he's, cause he's, it's in every religion to me. It's all cultures are reflecting it.

It's the six wise men of Hindustan to learning much inclined. They all went to see the elephant though all of them were blind, that each by observation might satisfy the mind. Something like that, the poem goes. Six blind men go touch the elephant different places, describe the elephant differently,

and in the end they're yelling at each other, no, the elephant's a fan, no, it's a tree, no, it's a, and they're all arguing about something they've never seen and they really don't know about this elephant. But I saw a pattern enough to know I wasn't making this up. And I was like, there's something going on with these stories and their different cultures and it's bigger than my one. So the God that I had in mind in the Bible

was not a God of control that had like, that the only way to the father's through the son kind of a mentality kind of broke apart. The white guy sitting on the throne, high up in heaven. Yes, that was gone. It was more pantheism. God is everywhere and in everything.

In every religion. That's kinda how I went, right? So that gave me, it is like God, you see what I'm trying to say? Like all religions have an aspect of it that are being reflected because God is in everything and everywhere. And it's not this one book and it's not the God of Jesus.

It's just this much bigger thing that all humans have or all humans are tapping into. That allowed me freedom to explore the book in a different way, and I found out that Samson's name, Shimshon, it means little son. Now, why is that important? Now, why is that important? Well, it just so happens in the story that the little son has seven locks of hair, seven rays of light. If you use him as the son, suppose the story isn't about a real dude,

but really it's a story about the son and Delilah the moon. Okay, and the moon and the sun are in all, like there's always a love hate. But alchemical marriage there. It's deep, the story's deep. Much deeper. Yeah, and she cuts his hair off, meaning she cuts his light off, which might be an eclipse.

When she does that, it's dark, blind. That's why Samson's eyes get gouged out in the story because he cannot see now. And it's the sun going into the winter solstice or an eclipse or something possibly. So finally, he's grinding mill all winter long for these Philistines and their god Dagon, and then last moment, God give me the strength,

and the tower of Dagon comes down, right? It's a fantastic story, but I never thought of it in terms of, is this a story coded, telling us about the sun and the moon, and notice that even the riddles in the story, there's 30 pieces of clothing and there's 30 days in a month. I mean, you start to realize patterns and you go,

what if this story is not literal, but symbolic? Well, I could not read my Bible like that as a Christian. You see what I'm saying? It's an allegory. It's an allegory of something, you know, natural, like a phenomena, but told in a real love story in a culture for people. And when I heard it, it freed me.

It made me go, hold on, hold on. What else is out there that's like this? That's what I wanted to know. But sometimes we can go too far and assume everything is like that. Off in another box, right? Exactly. What happened to me is I heard some really interesting

parables as I was deconverting from Christianity, but had a pantheistic God, a God that is everything everywhere. It's not this one, it's just humans put labels and names and like, you know, we just, but it's something beyond. And there was a parable that said that it's not written in any holy book, but it's something beyond. And there was a parable that said that it's not written in the holy book, but it's just an example to teach you where I ended up,

that led me to where I am. And it says when God went to make humans, Satan overheard and was listening. God says, man is going to be wise, driven, intelligent, loving, passionate, intelligent, loving, passionate, all of the attributes that I am, mankind will be, okay? And Satan hears it and says, I gotta hide God from man. I'm gonna hide God under the mountains of the earth,

beneath the dirt, under the rocks. Man will never find him. Man will be ambitious, driven, motivated, intelligent. He will unearth the rock, he'll move the dirt, he'll find under the mountains, God, I can't hide God there, where can I hide God? I'll hide him under the oceans, that's right, beneath the sands of the sea,

and man will never find him. Thinks about it, ambitious, driven, motivated, intelligent, brilliant. Mankind is like God. I can't hide God beneath the sands of the seas. Man will create an apparatus, find a way to get down beneath the waters and sweep away the sands, he'll find God. Where can I hide God that he'll never find him? And then the time comes where he realizes, I got it. I will hide God inside of every human that ever comes to exist. And when I do that, they're gonna spend their whole lives searching, seeking,

journeying the whole world to try and find what was in them the whole time. And when I realized that parable, it struck me that was spoken in an Alcoholics Anonymous. And it was really powerful for me because I was like, okay, it's you. The kingdom is inside of you. Right, it's you, you have it, you're enough, it's you. So the way I would describe it is I went down these paths, I went all up and down, valleys and mountains, valleys and mountains, and finally went on the highest peak

of the mountain and then there it was at the top of the mountain, a mirror. And I saw myself in the mirror and went, this is it. You found God. And it was like the Gnostic teaching of the Gospel of Thomas. It was like, when you lift up the stone, I'm there. And so I was enough and I was complete

and I felt like this is it. I don't need, I'm happy. I love myself. I'm okay. So then I could, I got, the step I went beyond that is going, maybe there isn't a God, okay? Maybe it was me and my conscious state in this world that we evolved in and stuff.

And I'm labeling God as consciousness, as me, as a person. Now I know that that's a leap many can't take or won't, and that's okay. But I speak the language and understand that language of loving yourself and being able to get in cool with loving who you are and being okay with things as they are in the flesh that I'm in. Like it's a little not gnostic-y

because gnosticism teaches that this is like the trap, right, and it's bad. I relate to gnosticism though. I do relate to that because it's like, this sucked sometimes. like like I don't You know, I felt trapped sometimes Right, so there's that I relate to but I took it a step further because again Everything used to be spiritual answers and then I started going

Empirical let me look at what I can test, what I can experience, what I can know, and try not to leap beyond that into belief land if I don't need to. I almost say what I know, experience, test is sufficient for me. I don't need to go, okay, well, where did everything come from, Derek? And if you can't answer that,

which we're just gonna suppose is God. You see the struggle that I'm like. Oh yeah, I've been there. Yeah. Yeah, I've been there. You know, one of the books, first books that I read was Living Buddha, Living Christ. It's by Tik Tok Han, have you ever read it?

No. Oh, it's so good because basically compares Jesus's life with Buddha and they so align. And I was like, wow, I thought Buddha was like, I didn't know anything about Buddha, to be honest with you. I mean, I only knew Jesus. It wasn't even for me to know.

I don't wanna know about this guy. But TiknotCon was such a great teacher and he wrote so many great books. But he said at the beginning of it, he went to this conference from people from all different religions and they're all getting up and talking. And there's this Christian speaking before him and he talks about, you know, we all came together but we're not, you know, mixing fruit salad or anything. And then Thich Nhat Khanh gets up there. He says, you know, I mixing fruit salad or anything. And then Tik Nok Hong gets up there and he says,

you know, I love fruit salad. Why would you only want one fruit? And I just thought that was so beautiful. And it made me think about, at the beginning of my journey, how you're just so curious, kind of like a child, right? And that's how I felt. And I just wanted to know, like I was exploring all over the world, like going back in time,

singing different Jesus and the Gnostic Gospels. And the more I did that, the more I was knowing myself. And that was what became beautiful because that became my truth. That is the most, I would say the biggest takeaway because addiction was me trying to escape myself. And that goes for Jesus too. I mean, literally the teaching is not I Lord, but you in me. Well, hold on, what about me?

What if I am the me and it isn't something else, but it is me and I am that powerful one. I am that amazing one. I am that good one. I am not evil. Now we all have aspects of what we would call good and evil. Okay, we all have, it's part of existence that we would point and maybe identify something

as an evil thing or bad things, right? That we can do better on. But I'm okay. I'm not hurting people. I'm trying my best, if anything, help them find themselves. And I have people who are even Christian, much more liberal, of course, but they'll say to me, you're doing the Lord's work and you don't even realize it.

That's what I think. Jesus was defiant. Right. In fact, Jesus was more like me and you question questioning right the church the politicians right in the governments I mean he was defiant I call myself divinely defiant well you know what whatever you want to call me I'm clearly trying to educate because I think that breaks those barriers down. And I love that you brought up Buddha and Jesus because I'm actually doing a script right now, uh, paralleling them from

academic standpoint. You need that book then. Yes. Send me what you have. Um, I've rekindled my old friendship with Robert Price because I do believe in it. I was going to bring him up. Yeah. Me and him are friends again. I obviously wanna keep it away from YouTube and just be his friend because I've always loved him and he's like a grandpa to me. He's like a friend, grandpa. He is a teddy bear, you know?

And I don't think the world realizes that, yeah, he says some things, okay? He has written some things that clearly, but I don't believe he's a bad person, but I don't believe he's a bad, I really don't believe he's a bad person. And if I did, I wouldn't be friends with him again. I think he's actually a loving person. And I think he's misunderstood

or we're just so us versus them mentality, politically and socially. Generations differences too, Derek. There's a lot. I mean, you know, like I was talking to my mom, I was really having to break it down. If I just told her your way is. I mean, you know, like I was talking to my mom, I was really having to break it down. If I just told her your way is wrong or my, you know, I mean, there would be conflict there.

Cause they are strong in their beliefs, especially the older generations. That's a fact. Yeah. It's not easy, you know, navigating that, but he helped craft a script. And I'll just say this one part, he found a source. I haven't read it yet, come through and through.

There's a source in the Buddha writings where Buddha is on a river. He's literally walking on water. And- Oh wow. Oh yeah, literally not like where Dennis McDonald has pointed out that one of the Greek gods with his flipper sandals with wings is flying Mercury or Hermes, you know,

on the water. He's like hovering on the water while flying across. In this case, Buddha is actually walking on the actual water, like Jesus walks on water. But one of the disciples of Buddha is walking out to him and then he doubts and starts to sink into the water. Just like Peter. Yeah, Peter doubts and sinks in the water,

just like a disciple of Buddha did. And so I'm like, whoa, what's going on here? Is there something more that we just don't know? Yeah, you need that book by Tik Tok Khan because he compared. So Ticknock Khan said, you know, I have so many people who are Christians, you know, around me that I respect very much. In fact, Tim and Martin Luther King had nominated each other for the Nobel Peace Prize, you

know, back in the day. But so he said, I want to read the Bible, but I don't want to be influenced. So he does so. And by the time he's well, he read the Bible, but I don't want to be influenced. So he does so. And by the time he's well, he read the New Testament. By the time he was done, he said, Jesus is a Buddha. Yeah, you know, and and he compared them in his book, Living Buddha, Living Christ. I want to read it. When you get a chance, send that to me. Easy. It's an easy read short. Yeah, it knocked my socks off for sure. easy read short, but it knocked my socks off for sure. After that, I had a gastron.

I feel like my journey, and I know you're not so esoteric, you know, sense of soul has a lot of woo on it. I can, I speak the language and understand its importance because to me, yes, I like to get into the facts of maybe what we can observe based on science, but like, I don't have conversations with people and go, Hey, how's the placebo effect filled now that I showed you that song? It's like, no, it's like, how does this matter and mean to you?

What does this tell you about life? That is esoteric to me. It's much more. Yeah. So I mean, but yeah, feel free to sorry. I didn't mean to. No, no, I'm glad that you made that clear because I know what, and I talked to a lot of scholars and one time I was talking to one woman, she teaches the keys of Enoch and

she's got a very thick accent, very thick accent from England. She was like, and I teach another one called Pisa Sophia and she's going on talks and I'm like, well, I don't care about that book, but I've been wanting to read the keys of Enoch, which is written by Dr. JJ her talk. So I got the book and I was like, I wonder what that other book was. And here I am. I'm hearing, I heard her say priestess of fear. And I was like, I can't find this book. So under keys of Eak was Pista Sophia. So him and his wife, you know, they translated.

J.J. Hertalk and his wife translated this one and also many of the Gnostic Gospels and did commentary. So I get it. I have no idea who Sophia is. I'm like, I don't know. This book mentions Mary Magdalene over 200 times. She is constantly questioning as Jesus is telling the story of Pistis Sophia, not Priestess of Fear. And I was like, what? Like what is this? I know I didn't have anyone telling me what to believe or think.

I just am trying to receive this for myself so I have no judgment. I just want to receive it. Probably read it like maybe five times. Wow. And over the years I would look for stuff and I had come across Robert Price. Yes. Robert Price. Yes. And Neil and yourself and Morgue, official and Esoterica, Justin Sledge, but hardly any women, by the way. Hello. Where's the women? We're talking about Sophia here. Like all the feminine energies coming out in these gospels. Where's the women

at? Which was intimidating too. But in some of the women I had found were like, oh, I rechanneled Sophia. And this is how I learned of her. And that wasn't quite my journey. So I don't want to be influenced by that either. But I was being led very, I would say divinely and with lots of synchronicity, like I wasn't like even just the priestess of fear. I mean, like what I was like, like even just the priestess of fear. I mean, like what? I was like, it just was one thing after another. So I became very curious and much like Mary Magdalene was in the pistis Sophia. I think that that's a powerful journey to take because no matter what, our culture is built from these prior ideas. Like everything we do has some type of integration of oftentimes many of these types of stories

or these spiritual lessons or these literary works in some way impact how we think and how we understand. What's also interesting is, you know, these religions, how much they influence the culture or culture influences them. There are ideas within Christianity that are not in the canon at all, that literally find their way due to some of that earlier material. I mean, look, Catholicism.

That's what I was going to say. Her being a perpetual virgin is absent from scripture, but there are books that literally make you aware of this. And I've got some series I'm hoping to put videos out about this. I made a little video on it. Did you? Well, because I mean, I think it shocks people. But I was with my Catholic mother and said, you know, who's St. Anne? And she's like, Mary's mother. And I'm like, how do you know? And she's like, because it's in the Bible. I'm like, no, it's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then my what? How did you, where did that come from? I like finding that stuff out. I think John Domina Croson says, like, you know, we're going to live with this tradition. But how he is interpreting it might be different from someone else. But

I think there's a way in which we find the good, we could spit out the bad that might be out there about some of these stories. But we watch fiction, for example, all the time and the depth of meaning in it is better than just bona fide history. Like I watch, right now we're going back through the stranger things

and we're watching the upside down. Yeah, and like there's so many lessons and none of it's historical, but all of it is internal, internalizing. You can learn and say, I don't wanna be like that guy. Oh, I wanna be like that person. And this is how I think narratives work. And I think we can value in internalizing them to me

is also a way of saying spiritual, it's a spiritual thing for me or whatever. What that literally means, I don't know, I'm internalizing the narrative, internalizing the character and how they are behaving. I wanna be like that person. I wanna do like that person. And if Mary asking Jesus questions or being critical in some way, that's, I think,

inspirational in a world where everyone wants you to just follow them, right? Like they want you to be down their path or you need to be like me. I think it's a powerful thing. Or just the fact that there was an idea of a goddess, right? And then it had me questioning, you know, father, son, what? Yeah. There's no mother in that? Like, how can you have creation without a mother? And why was that not important to highlight, you know? But yeah, I thought about that, that the whole goddess thing was so foreign to me. You know, I mean, that was like fairy tales and princesses. I was like, what? But then, you know, looking at how historically,

you know, going back, a goddesses were always a huge part of all traditions. So that's interesting how that got, you know, hidden buried in the Nagamati or wherever. But you know, when I started to go deeper and deeper, and actually I had on JJ, I just had him on again. I've had on the her talks, I have called out to all the most Gnostic scholars that I could.

And I found that to be interesting because the way I was experiencing it, and then to hear their academic views on it, and like us meeting and you know, it just was super cool. And I love that. And even with you like listening to you and someone like Neil and the amazing scholars that you have had on. I mean, did you ever think that you'd be dashing, you know, with all of these people? No, I did not at all. I had no clue.

But I also love that that that whole idea of the divine feminine because this is, you know, I like that dying and rising God stuff and finding out there's other stories of people who died and rise according to their stories. And it has this agricultural ancient motif. But when you go far enough back, you hit a goddess, you hit a Nana, Ishtar, and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

what? Because again, we're conditioned to go father, son. We're conditioned to go Dionysus. We're conditioned to go Osiris. We're conditioned to go, you name it, Addis. The list goes on and on guy, guy, guy, guy, guy, guy, guy, guy, goddess. Have we lost touch with the part of us that was more both and, and not this is us and this is how things are gonna go.

And I'm the head. I can't tell you how many times that when I lead us, we like, like I'm driving and that's it, it's going my way. Things don't go the best. It's that intuition again, that we talked about earlier about mothers and we evolved with, and my wife will like catch stuff that if I did not, I mean, really she does like 90%,

I wouldn't know my own social security number without her. Like that part of, why is that downplayed? This is the other thing, I'm talking about this myth of Samson earlier, right? The powerful story of Samson. Samson's mother never gets named. She is the wife of, and the man gets named.

Now he gets named, the father's named, she's not named. And it's an important narrative. It's actually one of the most, there's a Yerizokovich, a scholar who wrote an article called The Strange Biography of Samson. And it has mythological undertones that looks like the redactor had to tweak because it looks like the angel of the Lord, which really is a stand in for God, God meets his mom in a field. And he talks to her and is communicating certain things with her. She goes back to tell her husband.

Josephus documents this and he actually can pick up on the rhetoric and can tell that her husband is actually jealous. So the husband says, listen, the next time the angel of the Lord, this divine figure comes to you in the field, come and get me so that I can meet him and have words with him. Yeah, I'm gonna let that guy know, right? Well, he comes, she says, please wait here, I'm going to go get my husband. He requested that I do. Now she goes and gets her husband, he comes and he has words with the angel of the Lord. And what does he say? Hey, the other day you were talking to my

wife, what did you talk to her about? And he says, it's none of your business. And he's like, okay, what's your name? Doesn't matter. He's short with the husband. It doesn't matter. And it's like, well, can you like, he's like inquiring and then finally out of nowhere, he lets her know your child that you're gonna have is gonna be a Nazarite. He cannot eat any grape, nothing from the vine,

and don't cut his hair, okay? Well then this like moment of fire, almost like Elijah to heaven, and then they're in shock, pinching themselves. We saw God, is what they declare. How are we alive? We saw God, is what the text says. Well, Yeruzovitch says that the way that the text narrates it in the details about her being pregnant, it hints at it was God who impregnated her. That this was not her husband who got her pregnant in the field. It was God.

Yes. Well, it gets even more, I'll say spicy, when he goes to Eve. Because Eve declares, I have begotten a child with the Lord. The most literal rendition of the language is saying God impregnated me not Adam. And then she ends up birthing a son.

And there's other places where they're barren women, they're barren. And it says the Lord opened their womb. And so the most straightforward way of describing it is that God actually is impregnating these women. Then this woman named Mary, I'm not making this up. This is a scholar who knows the Hebrew, right? Then Mary shows up out of nowhere and she's overshadowed and then gets pregnant with Jesus, right? Well, there's a story about Mary getting pregnant in a later writing, and I can't remember which book, but I think this is in, I don't think, this might be in Church Father Writings,

but I think this is in one of the not welcome in the New Testament books. And in it, Mary gets pregnant by God through the ear. The spirit, because she's so keen, here we are with intuition again, she's so keen to hear what God has to say that the spirit goes through her ear and impregnates her. Now, how that works, obviously, you know,

your imagination can- You hear that from Amon Hillman? No, no, no. That's actually from M. David Litwa. But yeah, you see what I mean. Like you're talking about Amon Hillman. Amon Hillman. He wouldn't even say that. He would just say, no, it's not the ear.

It's actually some other gross thing. It was your eyeballs. Yeah, like he would say something gross because that's how he is. Yeah, right. I know. You know, there is a lot of pushback going on right now against people in the spiritual community

as well as other people like Morgan, you and Neil. I don't even know you're not in the spiritual community per se. I mean, more academic though. Right, right. Right. But you know, someone like Billy Carson, you know, that whole Wes Huff thing. I've also seen it in other corners. And it seems like there's this desperate need to go out there and challenge these people. I get a little bit, I'm competitive, I'm sure, you know, because you said you raise your kids in sports, there's competition built into us. But I think the part that really pisses me off is just the arrogance that I have seen from the apologetic community. Whereas I'm not saying my answer is

right. Meaning my conclusion. I'm not saying there isn't something out there. My opinion is if there is, I know for a fact it's not going to give a crap about the fact that I don't have the right understanding of it or it must be through this Jesus in order. Like, no, no, no, no, no. I think if it is out there, it's probably not concerned about what kind of clothing I'm wearing or what kind of the details of these things. But I watch what happened with Wes Huff, for example.

Me and Billy Carson, as far as beliefs go, are on completely different planets, literally. And guess what? I like Billy. We're friends. I talk to him once in a while on WhatsApp. We literally communicate in private. How are you doing, man?

How's your family? Again, sorry for what had happened with Wes. And I can't stand that what I saw take place when if you really wanna get technical, you wanna say this guy's a conspiracy wonky out there, then if he is, you are even more. A Jewish guy dead for three days, literally rose from the dead, walked on water and ascended, but you're mocking him.

My point is, is you both have beliefs about things that you would call his wacko or whatever. Well, yours are then. And so I guess I'm not fans of bullies. Seemed like he was set up to. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That I didn't like. Like if we're gonna be debating it, we both should be able to be there and ready for that.

I thought I did not like it at all. Even the aftermath of saying, hey, I wasn't at my best here, let's do this again, but just give me an opportunity to be prepared. I wasn't prepared. And it was like, let me undermine this guy. Let me destroy this guy. Let me destroy this guy, you know? Yeah, I interviewed Paul Wallace for his first book

years ago. I just actually released another interview. I'm good friends with Paul too. Yeah, we had really connected because what I was reading in the Bible when I first picked it up with those new eyes is I was like, are angels aliens? I was like comparing like just their definition.

You know, they're both like ascend, you know, or descend, not humans. I really was thinking that and people looked at me like I was insane and Paul was one of the first people who didn't. Right, right. Yeah. You can see why the correlation. In my mind, I tend to, and I don't know this,

this has not been a deep dive on my part, but it wouldn't shock me if the evolution of the concept of aliens derived out of angelology, demonology, and various types of spiritual beings, because these ancient texts describe celestial beings up there, okay? So- Right, you just read, you know, Samson went up, you know, much like in a chariot of fire. That's what I was imagining. Right now, while I might be skeptical and think that maybe these narrations of divinities, these gods, these, what he would call what Paul would call the Elohim being Nephilim or the op Kalu and things like that. I tend to think these are more mythical.

I don't think they're literal historical. And if there is some remnant to this, it's that humans have watched natural phenomena and created stories out of them. Again, we're talking about the sun, right? The sun is this guy named Samson with the strength, right? So I don't read these as like bona fide historical accounts. I take them as stories about natural world phenomena, but also explaining other things.

There's so much to it, but I think humans have always looked up and went, that's odd structure, a comet flying by or something, and then thought that's a God or an angel or something like that. And I would go that path before I think alien, but I'm also skeptical of modern UFO abduction type stuff too. You know what I mean? Why can't it be both? It's possible.

Look, I don't rule out the plausibility that there could be. I'm a skeptic though. So like, it can't be. It's that I'm not persuaded right now that this isn't your human thing. Yeah, like people will say, I saw Jesus, Jesus came to me last night. And I go, I think there's probably something psychological

or something, a dream or something else that they saw Jesus in and not literally Jesus came to them, right? Well, I think that humans have that, that happens. I think we're prone to see things we already believe or we're suggestive. So when an abduction happens, I would be more like, all right, what was the psychology?

What was the, I don't think a literal UFO came and abducted. I'm skeptical of that. Until I experience it or something. I don't know any other way to be. Well, if you do, you got to come back on and tell me about that. You know, have you heard of Diana Plazuka? No. Oh, hold on. Cosmic. And her last book is called encounters. Well, I had her on. I thought this was interesting because she did some research and you know, she's a religious scholar who ended up like going on this journey to the Vatican and in secret archives and And seeing many of the things she was reading were was like maybe you know, abduction stories

encounters and stuff like that and So she was going around listening to people's testimony on their experiences and there was this one guy in Australia. And the guy was not like Catholic or anything, but he's telling her about his encounter with what he thought was like an extraterrestrial. And he's describing almost in detail Archangel Michael. Well, she just like assumes he knows, you know, and that's how I feel like, you know, if I do have an experience or a dream, it's usually around something I know in Christianity, because that's, you know, in my DNA even, right? Right. So she then later finds out that he doesn't know who Archangel Michael is. And she's like,

Whoa, well, like you were totally describing him. And so he went and looked up Archangel Michael and sure enough, he was like, oh my gosh, like this is it. So I thought that was very interesting. You know, there's archetypes, right? There's archetypes though. This is kind of how we all see the world, even if we don't realize it. Again, like I start with a human and I think what is, I'll give you an analogy, how my brain works now. I'm super skeptical. I mean, like I'm like a hyper-skeptic, right? No, I like that you are though. But I'm friendly about it, but this is a funny example. I am friendly about this because while I'm very questioning of these claims, like not

saying he didn't have an experience, but I like even in that, I think to myself, okay, hold on. So you're, he's never seen anyone with wings and a sword. He's never watched a movie before. He's never seen Arnold Schwarzenegger fighting the devil in that one movie. Oh, I think Brad Pitt, come on, Brad Pitt. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, Brad.

That's my kind of arching point. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, maybe there's some imagery that's there in his memory and therefore an experience. I'm just thinking natural. But here's the thing. I'll give you why I do that. My brother, Kurt, he is a dude. He is such a diehard alien believer, right? I'm talking about hardcore. If he goes out at night and he sees an object, he's, it's an alien before it's an airplane usually. Okay. And then my

brother-in-law, Juan also, so you got Kurt and Juan, they both tag team me, okay? And then my brother-in-law, Juan, also. So you got Kurt and Juan, they both tag-team me, right? They like to argue and debate with me and talk about aliens against me, and I'm arguing back with them to try and like, well, one day me and my wife were going to, I don't even know where we were, but I saw a picture online of this windshield that had bird poop on it.

It was a blob. It was a white, cloudy was a white cloudy looking something, but it looked like it's in the sky. So because they're believers in this thing, it took me one sentence to persuade them and all I had to do was just mitigate my skepticism and say, look you guys, this is how I approached it. I was like, we were at Texas Roadhouse,

and I said, you guys, I know I've been fighting you about this for a long time. I've been extremely skeptical, but I think you guys are right. And here's why. Today, me and Ryan went to the store, and on our way home, there was an unidentified flying object,

literally in the sky that followed us all the way to the house. They went, we told you. They just jumped right on and I showed them the picture. See, I told you, look at that object. Look at that unidentified object. And I'm just sitting there soaking it all in, letting them marinate in it. I let them marinate in it. I let them just do their thing because they were just, ha ha, we told you. And I just finally at the end go, now I do have a question. Why is this image which you both have looked at

for several minutes, why is it your mind didn't first think, is that bird poop? Before you thought UFO extraterrestrial interdimensional travel, which is a very unlikely thing I imagine. If it happened, then okay, cool. But what's more plausible or probable in my mind?

And so I go, why is it you didn't think bird poop? Cause that's bird poop. And they went, you're kidding me, bro. And I'm like, do you see how quick you just went straight to believing that that was a UFO and not burp poop on my window? And they go, you're too skeptical. They still double down.

You're still too skeptical, Derek, and you're not open to the things. And I said, I'm sorry if you feel that way, but truth is, I think that if someone murdered someone, I would be more prone to hire the FBI agent who's looking for the thumb prints, the DNA, the facts of data first, and not assume or want there to be, well, a demon actually got her, or some other thing.

I want, because humans kill humans, right? So I'm making the most logical, basic, I would say natural leap before I jump to UFO, angel, demon, whatever. Now they could be, it's, I'm not persuaded. I think it's more of a human phenomenology and our imagination, cause we have powerful minds. That's my opinion and where I'm at right now.

And that just kind of gives you a nutshell. I mean, I am much like that too, even though I like where I speak on is my own truth. If someone did say, you know, this is what I mean, I think it's, you know, the one thing that I did come out of my interview with Diana was that, you know, the one thing that I did come out of my interview with Diana was that, you know, a lot of the things in my life, you know, that I've had experience with, this did root back much of them to Christianity or to saints or to even the Gnostic Gospels, why I'm so

able to read them and speak on them and because still that's rooted to Christianity, you know what I mean? And I've tried to not hold on to anyone belief knowing that tomorrow and or in five minutes, you know, that may not be it anymore. But that also came from really losing my religion. Yeah, or who's saying that losing my? Was that? R.E.M. Was it? Love that song. But I really do feel like had I not experienced that, I would have just been like your brothers, you know, looking at the, you know, poop and just believing it. Especially if you told me it had maybe like the face of Jesus in the middle of it. Right. Look, Jesus showed up in the sky or something.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, we're all free to explore. And I think that's the fun of that journey is not saying you don't need to be like me where this is my truth. My truth is saying I've been got so bad before and there's a whole side of us. You know, when you fall in love with yourself, you want to know more about what you are. What is a body? What is a human brain?

What does it do? What are the loopholes or the blind spots of our believing? Because I was believing, I wanted to know the science of belief. I wanted to know why do we believe things and we've never really seen or touched or know that or fact that they're real. And people believe in things that aren't real all the time.

So my kind of epistemic foundation is like, if it sounds a bit unbelievable or it sounds a bit of a reach, I'm gonna start with skepticism until evidence can overturn that skepticism. I'll put it this way, if there are real experiences or real things that are out there that have happened and it just hasn't happened to me,

I'm gonna be unfortunately left out because that is just how my reasoning is. When you've been tricked long enough to believing in one thing, the full pendulum swings. And now it's like, hey, to persuade me that this thing is true. I got questions. I have questions.

Yes. I know you have a huge following, which is a testament to that, that a lot of people have questions. Right. And this is a cool thing. We have such a diverse, as your analogy earlier, a fruit salad with so many different people, with so many different fruits, and you don't have to be like me.

You don't have to be this guy who's like, well, what if there is anything out there? Look, my partner believes there's something out there. Now she doesn't know what it is. She doesn't try, she's not certain of it. She's just like, I don't know, this is too good to be true. I can't believe that this is all there is. There's something out there. Now she doesn't know what it is. She doesn't try it. She's, she's not certain of it. She's just like, I don't know. This is too good to be true. I can't believe that this is all there is. There's something out there. And guess what? I don't go tonight. We're going to talk about this. Something that you believe again, we're going to get

to the bottom. No. If sometimes I wonder if there's something out there and I, I go, you know, this is a bit weird. Are we in a simulation? Is this a dream? Is there something bigger that did this? Like, I'm not that kind of guy, but I do try to use those tools because I've duped, not myself, but like I fell trap to these beliefs as if they are the one. And now I'm like, maybe none of them are the one.

Maybe we're all just humans trying to find our way and I think when we find ourselves if we take that commandment love the Lord thy God or God's with all your heart with all your mind with all your soul the way I read that is like everything in you and love your neighbor as yourself if we stuck to those guidelines I think we'd do a lot better. Problem is I don't think many people love themselves. Being selfish in that way of not caring and looking out for others, that's not that authentic loving yourself

because to do that is to also look out for the people around you and not be so self-centered in that way. It's just when your journey has been that deep like yours has, it know, it came from a very deep space. So I love that that is, it's almost like that is the essence of your journey. It's always there, you know, that part of you that started, you know, your journey,

you know, the pain, that pain to purpose. I do think you have a very special purpose. And that's to, you know, help people be curious. Put these ideas out here, these different things that no one's heard of or that has been hidden from the world and I always look forward to your next live, your next subject. I look forward to what you you know find with Buddha. I really do appreciate you. You're fun and you know I don't feel like you're very judgy when it comes to this whole exploration. And so, yeah, thank you very much for all that you do.

Absolutely. If anyone feels that I'm judgy, it's probably because of apologetics. It's the chip on my shoulder against the narrative that they're spinning because I came out of it and I know what it did for me mentally and that trauma and it wasn't because well I mean I did yeah I did feel a little pain from certain groups of Christians but it wasn't that wasn't what I think did it it was really the mental

trauma of the teachings that I am a wicked you believed you believed in. Yep, I believed in. You know exactly that depth. And I appreciate you interviewing me. I try my best with crazy schedule, you know, to try and make these things happen and to help share with the community and like talk to people like you who've been fans and also who are doing their own thing to help people find themselves, whatever that means,

as long as it's not harming other people, that is the green light for me. I just said this on a live stream the other day, if you gotta become a Christian, I said this on a live stream because everyone knows I'm so critical of Christianity. If becoming a Christian saves you from yourself or hurting others, become a Christian.

Okay, now clearly I think there's other ways, but you know, it's okay. I'm not that kind of person and I don't think you are. We're both on this path and we understand life is hard and we're all on a journey. is hard and we're all on a journey.