Sense of Soul - Overcoming Ancestral Trauma

Episode Date: May 19, 2023

Today on Sense of Soul podcast we have Vangile Makwakwa, MBA. She’s the founder of wealthy-money.com and the author of Heart, Mind & Money: Using Emotional Intelligence for Financial Success. Vangile has been travelling for 15 years and has lived in over 12 different countries and visited way more. She has a finance degree and an MBA and started her personal finance journey by paying off US$60,000 in debt. She is also the host of two podcast, Property Magicians Podcast, an A to Z guide to property investing so you can start and grow your property portfolio. She’s also the host of the Money Magic Podcast, a resource on healing intergenerational and money trauma. Heal your ancestral (inter-generational) money trauma so that you can fall in love with your bank account, increase your income and live your best life.  Visit her website and follow her on social media: www.wealthy-money.com Facebook.com/wealthymoney https://instagram.com/vangilemakwakwa twitter.com/wealthymoneyco www.youtube.com/wealthmoney1 wealthy-money.com/spotify   Learn more about Shanna and Sense of Soul at www.mysenseofsoul.com Go can find all of our new Sense of Soul Network of Lightworkers at our afiliates page at https://www.mysenseofsoul.com/sense-of-soul-affiliates-page Join our Sense of Soul Patreon!! Our community of seekers and lightworkers who get exclusive discounts, live events like SOS Sacred Circles, ad free episodes and more. You can also listen to Shanna’s new mini series, about the Goddess Sophia! Sign up today and help support our podcast. https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world, sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of Soul Patreon member, where you will get ad-free episodes, monthly circles, and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today on Sense of Soul, we have Vanille McQuackquwa. She is the founder of WealthyMoney.com and is the author of Heart, Mind, and Money, Using Emotional Intelligence for Financial Success.

She also hosts two podcasts, the Property Magicians podcast, and the Money Magic podcast. She is passionate about helping people heal their ancestral money trauma so that they can unlock their inner money guru and thrive. And if you know me, ancestry is such a big part of my journey. So I am so excited for this conversation. How are you? Sorry, it's dark out here, closing curtains and all that. Are you in South Africa? Yes, I am. What part are you in?

I'm in Bumalanga at the moment. Well, thanks so much for joining me this evening then. Yeah, thank you. Where are you? I'm in Colorado. Oh, nice. I'm excited to talk to you. So I've worked on my ancestry personally for about six years. I'm originally from New Orleans, Louisiana. I'm French Creole. Oh, wow. And actually, oh, I have goosebumps all over me, but I'm more German Creole. So it's interesting. A lot of people don't know the ancestry history here, as we've been told. And I discovered that in my ancestry, a lot of people had past as white. Wow. figured out why, but it didn't sit right with me. And so I didn't understand. So I have a huge, my mom is one of seven. We have a huge family. Okay. So, and they all are from Louisiana. We're

the only ones that moved this far West. So, and I'm grateful that I grew up here in Colorado. We don't have the issues that the South has when it comes to race. So I feel like I was maybe one of the only ones that could have received what I did. So that way I could then share the knowledge. And not only was it powerful for me, for my children, it's a timeless healing, right? But when I discovered, I went on to expose the truth because it was hidden have you seen a feast of saints it's about New Orleans yes I loved that movie Vanessa Williams yes I think she was in there I can't remember but like James Earl Jones is in there I mean it is based on real stories this happened a lot in South Africa as well so like I have friends who like I remember I worked with this girl at Stellenwatch University so she's black African but she was like the other half she'd say oh we're

going to have lunch at my family's place at this predominantly colored area. And she's like, it's kind of like a problem, though, because the other family members don't speak Xhosa and they only speak Afrikaans and awkward because now you've got people that have been taught fairly different things for like about seven or eight decades. And even though they carry the same blood, the way that they look at their other family members is not on point, you know? So she was like the not on point family member. And she's like, oh, it's always such a mission because you have to do this because it's family. But it's also, there's just so much there because from the time you walk in, people eat different foods.

They speak different languages. So it it's like how do you make that happen and that's a thing that is actually happening right now where people are trying to make sense it's crazy I think it's tragedy you know that they had to give up their culture it weighed heavy on me and I believe that my ancestors waited for someone like me prayed for someone like me in the future that would be open enough to receive this and to give them a voice wow that's deep I am proof that white privilege I am I am the proof of white privilege. Anybody wants to argue that. I am so fortunate. I grew up in Colorado. But the thing is, is when you don't see it, then you don't understand it. You don't empathize with it. You don't, you know, you can't.

And isn't it that if you don't see it, it's because you have the privilege not to see it. That's part of it. Because if you are not the target market for racism, you don't get to see it. I was having this very same discussion with my boyfriend around even sexism, you know, because there's certain things I will talk about, and he will be like, oh, but I don't see that, you know, and he sees a lot. And so I said to him the other day, of course, you don't see it, you don't see these little nuances, you will miss these because you're not living it. You have, you know, right, exactly. So a lot of things we don't see when we are not the ones living it. So but interestingly, I did an interview with one of my clients. She's from Lesotho, but she was doing her

master's, her MFA in Colorado. And she has a whole different experience where she was just like, it's very liberal, but like you could, she could feel that she was the only black person in that space, you know, and she was like, just really jarring that people don't have to do anything. But in that case, you do feel it. And I think that's the interesting thing about blackness is that we will notice that. It's not that people have to be overtly or racist or even subtly racist. It's just you walk into a space and you're instantly like, whoa, why am I the only one that looks like me? You're automatically uncomfortable because you carry this history, right, you are much more aware of things. Because ancestrally what we carry within our DNA is also the fears and hopes and dreams and wisdoms of our ancestors. But I always say, like right now, apartheid, colonization, slavery, these things

are like four to 500 years old. We are millennia old, right? At least on the African continent and also in the US, like when we're talking about slavery and colonization and apartheid. So we carry so much more wisdom, but because trauma grips you, that's all that you see. So what most of us are carrying on a daily basis is that you are so hyper aware that you are the only person in that space. And I remember when I first lost that was when I started living in Asia, you know, and I remember this very, very clearly, you know, know it's I remember when I moved to Thailand so in South Korea I was aware that it wasn't so bad like I wasn't like oh I'm black all the time after a while I just was like oh it's just I can't speak Korean you know and people are making

allowances for me but like I remember just one day being in Chiang Mai and having this realization that I no longer walk around with this, what are people going to do? Like I'm on guard. And I realized that having lived in America and having lived in South Africa and the UK, these countries had like trained me to constantly be on high alert and hyper vigilant because of my race you know so you walk into a restaurant and someone gives you attitude and you don't even understand why it's just like I walked into the restaurant and already someone is treating you some kind of way then you're're like, oh, crap. OK, here we go.

For no reason. Just because of the color of your skin. And I remember like being in Thailand and just realizing after a few months that I didn't get worried about walking into a restaurant. I didn't even care. I would just go into a restaurant and eat and do my thing. And people would just let me go. And then like one day a waiter was just having a thing and I was sitting with a friend.

And I just realized my first instinct wasn't to be like, oh, she's racist. My first instinct was like, what's up with her? Because I always went into that restaurant and I'd always gotten great service. And today she was like all out of whack and it hit me that this was the first time in my life where I was like wait I'm relaxed and that was my first instinct wasn't she's racist when I left certain spaces and I mean as I said even in South Africa my first jump especially like Cape Town is one of my favorite cities in the world. Like I love it. Right. Like I have property out there, like love, love it.

But I'm also very aware that it is extremely racist. Right. So and like there's many parts of South Africa that are like that in the same way with the US. There were certain things and in the UK and to just have that experience to be like wow this is and I remember this so clearly because it was in 2018 when I had this realization I was like I didn't even realize that I was walking around with that hyper vigilance around race until it had started to disappear right and then it had then it was like oh okay because then I just realized that like after a few years of being in certain countries and not always facing that microaggression being able to eat at restaurants without having to prove

myself being able to stay at hotels without having to over-explain things and to just be treated like a human being. I was like, this is what it's like to be human. Having such conversations with other travelers and we were like, dude, I had no clue we were holding onto this until you no longer hold onto it. For women just in general general like you brought up just

you know has that as well and one thing for me that I discovered that was definitely generational you know definitely part of my DNA was being that martyr for my children being the mother that sacrifices everything for her children and leaves zero for herself. So when did you make that realization? I know you're interviewing me and I'm having a podcast. No, we can interview each other. I'm just fascinated. But I see that a lot with women where we just give and give.

So I remember like my son's first birthday party. Right. And I remember my mom, like in my ear, like, aren't you going to feed your husband? And I was like, oh, yes, I'm going to feed my husband. I'm so excited. What am I supposed to do? I've been waiting my whole life to serve people. Yes.

But at first I did feel that way. I was, I had looked up to the women in my family of course right and that's what they did they served I mean my papa used to come home from shrimping and be like honey where's my dinner yes and so I was gonna play that role you know I tried but I sucked at it because I wasn't very good. So like you expected that like this person with 10 fingers, 10 toes, able-bodied that you are now going to drop everything and also do for him. And you have a child that is turning one and you have to look after this child and, and, and, and, and please everybody else. Right. And please everybody else and make sure, you know,

that you're just living the American box dream. You know, everything has to look great and you have to have, you can be living these cookie cutter houses, you know, it's just so fucking ridiculous. It's so weird to me now, but you know, honestly, I remember asking myself, and at that point I had four children, two of them in high school, one of them who was autistic and a baby in three different schools the kids were in. And I was working like two jobs as well. Oh my God. And I remember I was spiraling out of control and I had lost my best friend, lost my dad. I lost my mom. I did like three eulogies in like a year and I was so broken. You know, when all these bad things happen,

you start to doubt your faith, right? And so I thought to myself, how much of what I believe in have I been told to believe in? And how much of that have I experienced to be my truth? Everything I was trying to be as a mother, as an American, as a daughter, a friend, you know, all these things were, this is what I was told to be as a mother, as an American, as a daughter, a friend, you know, all these things

were, this is what I was told to be. And I had never asked myself, well, you know, what do you want to do? Never. Yeah. Yeah. What about you? So, so beautiful. me when I realized that like I was giving too much you know for me this has been a consistent journey I think I've shared this before was with my mother right so I had just in 2018 I renovated my mother's house um and then I came and she was really not uh she didn't feel like she was really happy about this I mean she was really really upset afterwards and I was like oh my gosh what the hell and then I had hosted two retreats here and then she had given two, and so I'd hosted two retreats at the house. And what had happened was all that money had been paid into my mother's account instead of into my business account.

My decision was that was my thank you, even after spending money renovating the house. But I'm such a believer in, because I teach about money, right? I can't tell you guys, like, just, I spend so much on renovating the house, getting furniture, and also not making money from the retreat. But in those, in the following months, the amount of money that flowed into my bank account was just coming from the ether. I just think my ancestors, when you do, we believe that when you do for your parents, your ancestors are also really happy because, you know, it's your living. My sister calls them your living ancestors.

She's a shaman, right? That like your parents are your living ancestors. So you're like giving to the bloodline in a way. So I was just like, wow, this is amazing. Then I gifted my mom a retreat to Thailand. She came for three weeks to two weeks in Thailand and one week in Sri Lanka. So we did five star hotels and all that in Sri Lanka. And then two weeks, I left her at a place called Infakin, where you get five hour massages every single day from the morning.

They start by roasting you, right? I say roasting, they put you on banana leaves, they like heat up herbs for like an hour. And then afterwards you get five hours of massage, you break after from 9am to 12pm. Then you get a two hour break for lunch and they cook you lunch specific to your Vedic thing. Kind of like they do but they do the Thai version. So they find out if you're mainly metal, water, fire, etc. Then they cook you Thai food which I don't know if anyone's been to Chiang Mai. By Chiang Mai definitely if it's not listed as a food capital should be, it is, the food is so yummy. So they cook you food that would work with your body type, right? After that, you get another

three hours of massages. So you break from 12 to 2pm. Then you do another three hours, then you do a sweat lodge, and then you do dinner, and then you go go to bed and then you do it again. So she did that for like two weeks. That was her entire life. So I had paid for that, right? And then, so this was interesting. So here's where it gets really interesting. So then my mother's been there for maybe, what, 13 days? Then the woman who runs the place when visa calls me she's like man I'd like you to come and get to come sleep over and then come to one day of massages where instead of your mother we do you and my mom was like yeah that's great and I was like no no no she needs another one day like I did the two weeks it's for her. And then when Visa pulls me aside and she goes, I've been observing you

since I've gotten to know you. Do you know how little you give to yourself? Like you've been in Chiang Mai, you have not given yourself these two weeks here. You know, you gave your mother these two weeks, but when you've come, you've come for a day and then you've left. You've always just come for a day at a time and then you've left, but with your mom, you've had no problems paying, getting her here and gifting her this. And now I am saying your mother has had 13 days. We have basically sorted out all her knots. There is nothing that your mother has in terms of knots in her body. And since you've got this extra day,

can you please take it? And I remember listening to that and it just hit me that this is true. Like I've never done that for myself. I've done it for my mother, but not for me. And can I tell you that like that one conversation shook me to my core and I could see all the things that I've been doing. It really shook me to my core because that was actually one of the most transformative

conversations for me. Because after that day, I started noticing what I was doing for others that I would not do for myself. And I'd always thought that I'm doing for myself because I'm traveling, I'm a nomad, everything. And she was like, nope, because I've been observing you. You do come here, you do this, but like, you will never give yourself this level of gifting, you know, because she had even said to me at one point, why don't you give your mother seven days, and then you are both here. And I was like, no, no, no, no, it's not important. You know, it's important that she has that. So after that, it was the first time. And then I also noticed that I was willing to stay in a five-star hotel in Sri Lanka when my

mother was there. But before my mother came, I would never do that for myself. Can I tell you when I put my mom back on the flight, because we went back to Sri Lanka, we did like another five-star thing. When I got her on the flight, I was like, bye mom, go back to South Africa. I started from that day forward, making sure that like I could book, I would try as much as possible to book myself into five-star hotels and fancy places as well. I changed everything.

I'd always stay in beautiful places. Don't get me wrong. I always stayed in gorgeous Airbnbs. Everyone knows that about me. It's not like I penny pinched or anything, but like there were certain things where I would be like, no, why do that? So I started gifting myself certain experiences and allowing myself to have those experiences and paying for those for myself. And it was a game changer in my relationship with myself, but also it's been a game changer

also with my relationship with money. You know, I kind of, I don't know what happened, but like things started to shift radically in that relationship. And I think it also showed up in how I started showing up for myself. I stopped prioritizing other people and thinking that everyone else's desires and needs were so much more important than my own. So I was like, if I can do for others, I can also do for myself. Wow. I'm like emotional, which made me sit with that, that your story triggered me. I mean, I used to feel sadness and get emotional thinking about that version of myself, but I do think it's very easy to fall back into it because it is my nature. It is my nature

to be that person. Now there was a point where, you know, it was when it was in a mindfulness class years ago that I had taken, where they made me listen to my thoughts. And when I was listening to my thoughts, all I was saying was you could be doing something else. You should be at home cleaning your house. This is so pointless. You can't even breathe right. You're not breathing right. You should be at home. Your kids need you. You know, this is a waste of your time. And then I thought to myself, would I tell that to my daughter? Would I tell that to my best friend? I would never, I wouldn't tell that to a stranger, but yet here I was

telling myself, I mean, I was full. I was mindful of shit, telling myself all of that. That's what I had a mind full of. And I just remember as I started to really be the witness of my thoughts, that was what was coming in a lot, you know, not you them. And so when I started to make that shift at first, everyone thought it was selfish because they were so used to me giving that they're like, what do you mean?'re like what do you mean no what do you mean that you're gonna go do something instead of do something for me and it's I got over it after a few years and then my daughters start telling me you need to go get a massage mom I'm gonna tell them about the five-hour massage that's the one I need yes but I'm a massage therapist too. So I'm always a giver. Okay. I am. So there is this point where

I got so good at the self-love thing, but it almost didn't feel truly authentic. I am a natural nurturing person. So I needed to find, I needed to find where I could still choose me when I wanted to, not just because I wanted to be strong, right. Not just because I was trying to prove to the world that I had self-love or that I could choose me. Now it needed to be a more conscious choice. Like I really like my mom. Okay. I really do, but not all the time when it's taking away from my time or other things that I have to do for myself. I tell her now, but you know, I got so good at it that I tell her now, even when I didn't have anything. Right. So now I'm trying to find that balance where I can still be true to who I am authentically and who where I still can connect to my mom or who is very nurturing and giving and I think the

things that I loved about her that's that's what I saw and and that's what that's I love that because it mirrors my soul too I am giving do you know what I mean so I had to find out I love giving hey it's one of the things that I think I've had to go on a journey with as well right and I feel like yes sometimes I am an over giver like my brother says that like he thinks my problem is that not my problem, but he says like one of the things with me, he says I'm high on empathy. He says like my empathy scores are super high. So like it kind of like means that like I will naturally give and mother and all those things, which I love. I truly love it.

And maybe that's one of the reasons. I think one of the things that I've also had to learn is when I'm tapped out. And here's the thing, I realized over time that I can start to see when I need a replenishing, and I need to give to myself, I get moody. They are signs. So I realized that when I'm moody and I get angry and I lashed out, that means that I am tapped out, right? And then I feel like I am overgiving and I'm getting nothing in return. So now I'm having to learn to use my words, right? And I think that one of the things that I've had to learn also is what I would do in the past would be to work through the moodiness. Right. To sit with it. But I realize it's a specific kind of moodiness because I know myself. Right. This is not like, oh, I'm just angry about this. It's like it will be moodiness directly related to the giving, you know, or something that I'm giving either emotionally or

something, then I need to pay attention. What I used to do in the past is that I would just work through it so that I feel less upset about it. Now I see that actually, no, the anger, the moodiness, all that and the snappiness, that's me trying to get my attention. And that's when I need to sit down and be like, Whoa, okay, what's going on. And then I've had to learn to just instantly go off on people, you know, on that and just sit with it and just be with it. And to just reflect on it. That has been a journey for me. Right. You start to, if you make that space, there's a choice there, right? That you get to choose, you know, how you're going to react. And I think also going back to the empathy thing, that was something for me too. I'm a cry baby,

right? A nanny baby, got called all the things when I was little. But now I can choose when I allow that empathy to come through when I want to connect with someone because it is a gift to be able to empathize and connect with someone. This is how humanity is supposed to, we're supposed to be able to, I'm supposed to be able to feel your pain right now. As you speak that I was in your energy because I was like me too I've been there but if I wanted to I could have protected myself absolutely but I have a choice now where before you don't have a choice and that's happening all day long interactions that's dangerous true so one of the things and I remember having this thought process with myself at the end of last year 2022

I was like there are ways that I could go through life because sometimes like this high in empathy thing can get me into so much trouble because like I realized that like some people have used it against me without me even realizing it and I realized that that happened to me at some point last year with people that I thought were like really close friends. And they're like, my empathy was fully being used against me until my coach pointed it out to me. And I was like, oh, crap, this is wild. Like, I can't believe that I'm in this situation. And then I just felt so deeply hurt and so deeply betrayed, right? But then I had to go through a process with myself to be like, do I figure out how to shut down that part of myself? Or do I continue to work with that part of myself and just tune in

even more to myself, right? And that's when I started to realize that, whoa, wait a minute, when I am overgiving, and I am not getting anything in return, I can actually sense it because this is how it comes back as in my energy field. And this is how it feels emotionally to me. And I may not know why I'm feeling that way. But if I sit with it and interrogate it, I'll get to the bottom of it and start to understand it. So then I was like, oh, I don't have to always work. There's certain emotions that I don't have to always work through. You know, I can just really understand what the messaging is and really actually invite them to turn up the volume all the way even so that like I can find the wisdom that they hold. So I do think that what often happens, and I'm talking about this in my next book, right, which should be out soon, probably by September, October, but that there

are people within this world and within families that we feel so much so that we can help metabolize the emotions of others it's almost like you are in a family you're born in the family and then you're meant to metabolize those emotions you sense the things that they will not sense and that's why we are born and we're born into that family. And I believe that every family has that family member, right? That because other family members have unique gifts that they also bring, you know? So one of the things that I talked about is that, but that like sometimes it becomes so overwhelming to be feeling all these people's feelings and all the people that we're interacting with on a global level,

and especially within our families. So what happens is that we actually end up getting what I call a profile, the runaway profile, which is that either they literally leave the family and run away physically. But at the same time, that profile also to cope, you have to leave your body. So when I was having this discussion with myself, and at the end of 2022, I realized that that is how I had spent, that's how I survived my childhood and my teens, right, was that when things got overwhelming, I was, I was a runaway teen. So I would run away from home to try it because everything was too overwhelming for me to process. Or the second thing that I did was I just abdicated my body. I just dissociated from my body.

And I was like, no, I've worked so hard over the years with the work on trauma and ancestral trauma to come back into my body, to feel my body, to actually realize, freaking hell, I've got legs, I've got feet, I'm a human being, you know, I don't want to keep dissociating. So it's just sounds like, in which case, it's okay, I just keep feeling that I'm just have to dial in a bit more, and just be more aware than I already am as to what is going on and sit with the emotions even more than I've been sitting with them so that I understand what is fully happening. And I can unpack that because it just means that I'm just picking up a lot of things. And that's a good thing, but it's also a bad thing.

I've said this for a while that every blessing can be a curse and every curse can be a blessing. Right? So it just depends on the way that you utilizing it and the way that you see things. So yeah, I'm glad that we're actually talking about this. A lot of people have decided to tune it down and to pretend it's not happening, right? Like not to feel the emotions because we feel too much. But I feel like the world needs the feelers so that we can remind other people that you get to feel and we can help other people kind of metabolize their, their own emotions as well. Yes. like don't let go so fast right you know investigate a little bit you know another thing that I've got huge over the past few years

is that we all are creators I'm a creator you're a creator and we should have been told this from our creators but the world has been trying to keep us all small. They don't want everyone to know that you do have the power, that you're a fucking goddess, creatress, and you can create and you do create. I mean, you want to know how your life is because you created it, right? You created it.

You want to know how your day is going to go? At the end of the day, you created it. Is that not right? You created it. You want to know how your day is going to go? At the end of the day, you created it. Is that not right? Energy attracts energy. But just recently, my co-host, my best friend, Mandy, stopped podcasting with me. She started a new chapter of her life. And at first, all of a sudden, out of nowhere,

this voice tells me, well, you can't do it by yourself. You're not going to be able to do this. And I was like, oh, my God, I can't. And I just that whole day, I allowed myself to listen to that. I got so sick. I got so sick. I had like blue. Wow.

The next morning, I heard the voice again. And I was like, wait I had like blue. Wow. The next morning I heard the voice again and I was like, wait a minute. No, I can do it. I am doing it girl. I was not sick anymore. I mean, but it did last a day and I'm glad that it did because it was a reminder. So, you know, I, I mean, at, you could say, Oh, my God, I've been so good for all these years. And how did I, you know, regress? Because I needed to be reminded that I can, and I am. Yes, yes, yes, exactly. I think, you know, I love that we're having this conversation, this one as well, because I think what I find we often believe is that like once we have healed, and I'm saying healed

in inverted commas, honestly, all it is, is that we're going back, certain events will re-trigger us, right? So that we can go back to heal certain things and truly, truly heal them, right? So that we can go back to heal certain things and truly, truly heal them, right? I think that the way that we look at healing is like, wow, I just do one thing and then it's over. But I'm like, you've lived lifetimes. And these things keep coming back lifetime after lifetime. So this is always an opportunity. But I've noticed that every time they come back, they don't come back as strong. I remember in Vipassana, Goenka Ji and anyone that does a Vipassana sit for 10 days will get the same videos.

Love Vipassana. I've been talking about it a lot more these days. I think I'm due another 10 days of silence this year, definitely. But I digress. Anyway, in Vipassana, Goenka Ji says, one of the things that when you start meditating, right, you may have noticed that before you used to boil in anger for like eight hours. Someone would make you angry

and you'd be boiling in anger for eight hours. And then you just keep doing the work, keep doing the work. Then one day someone triggers you you boil in anger for six hours he's like that's an improvement it's not that the anger disappears is that you are now boiling in anger for six hours right you're only tortured for six hours then you keep doing the work and then one day you realize that you boil in anger for four hours until one day it's for 30 minutes and then after a few years it's like wow anger for five minutes right so it's a consistent journey so every time

someone leaves maybe something in you is triggered and that old voice that is just like I can't do it is triggered but now you you only triggered for a day. That is incredible. Next time you'll have a business partner and they go on their own journey and you'll be triggered for 30 minutes when they leave, right? It's not that you don't care. It's that now the trigger of people leaving and you having to do anything on your own is becoming less and less because you now have more evidence. You see yourself more and you see that, no, the voice isn't telling the truth. It's actually the other way around. Can do it on your own.

Yeah. And just the fact that you can listen and hear it. The fact that you're listening and you heard that voice. Yeah. Like, I love that. actually, that is such a beautiful point. You know, that's such a beautiful point. I think that we don't even realize it because for so long, how many of us have been just reacting out of anger, not understanding why we're angry. Someone does something and we think it's about the person's actions and not understanding that a person has every right to take whatever action they take. But often we're responding not to the moment, but to something in the past and that we're just responding from our trauma. Right now, to be aware that actually, whoa, it's not that the person left it's the voice

and the meaning that I've given to the person's leaving that is causing me the pain that is already the start of healing right because that's like my friend is free to be herself and to do whatever she deems right for her life. And I want to honor that. But my stuff is my stuff. I get to deal with it for me. Like I get to do my own stuff. So it's like I get to decide, oh, okay, so I may feel some type of way. But okay, my high levels of empathy, how do I deal with that? I get the

decision. It's not about how other people behave. That is the topic at hand. It's about how I choose to deal with what I sense and how I sense certain things and my overgiving. Do I want to stop giving? Do I want to stop feeling and sensing the things that I'm sensing or what and my decision was like no I want to keep this but I want to work with it differently I just want to be aware of it because everything has an upside and a downside I just have to be aware of the downside a lot that That's right. And this is sovereignty. This is freedom, right? This is freedom.

I didn't think about it that way. That's like the best feeling in the world. Like you're unfuckwithable is what I call it. Well, I definitely don't feel like that on most days. Like I definitely feel like on most days, yeah, I'm fuckwithable because like I'll lose my mind over certain things but what I realize is that I lose my mind and I go straight into my meditation I go to my journaling I talk it through and it doesn't like how Goenka G talks

about it's no longer like for months that I lose my mind. I lose my mind maybe for a few weeks, for a few days, and it's becoming less and less triggering, you know? So that is so, like, that's something that is so, so interesting, because I noticed it actually last week, I was like, whoa, I am becoming less annoyed for a shorter space of time and that means that there's a kind of freedom there because all that time that I would spend being upset angry having like an emotional meltdown I'm actually spending focusing on solutions moving forward doing the things that I want to do, creating the things I want to create, writing, talking to my publishers. It's a huge shift. When you talk about it that

way, I guess it is sovereignty. Yeah. When I think about how my emotions used to control me or how my pain used to control me because I was unaware. Never even ask it. What do you need? Oh, do you need that five-hour massage? My body's like, yes. Hey, listeners, did you know that Sense of Soul is a part of the Ethereal Network? Other like-minded podcasters who share the same vision as Sense of Soul. And I'd like to introduce you to one of those amazing podcasts. Spirit Sherpa, the show that helps and encourages you on your journey to unlock your magic mojo. And I'm here to walk you through the next stage of your spiritual awakening. If you're new, start at the beginning and you'll learn the basics from crystals and

tarot cards to how to evolve and grow as a person. If you're further along in your journey, then start in the middle and learn more esoteric concepts. Join us as we explore the extent of the energy world and the depths of ourselves all while having a great time. Spirit Sherpa on your favorite podcast player. Now back to our amazing guest. I do want to talk to you about the money connection with the ancestry. I want to hear your thoughts on that. I sat with it this morning and I was like, what angle, you know, can I take on my ancestry with my finances? You know, I know a lot of my actual ancestry. So like my dad's family were businessmen. They owned their own businesses, like every generation. When I, you know, I get told all the time, oh my gosh, I love your, you do so good in

business and that. And I'm like, I do like, I've never owned it. So I need to start owning it because I've been told that and I never thought that about myself. So if I can't think about myself that I'm probably not, you know, owning it. But I have been told that lately, because I have found a sense of, like, I'm proud of myself about some of the work I've done. So when I am proud of that work, I think people can feel that, right? So I thought about this this morning.

This is really important. I think. See if you follow me. You heard of that book. The five love languages. Yes. So me and my mom were gifts. I was thinking about this.

I'm like. That is not. That is not a good thing. Because it shouldn't be based on the material wealth like I should but you just said you also give up I just I I just think it might be unhealthy to feel loved if it's around something of because I think that it's giving the material wealth power where love itself is more powerful than anything. It's way more powerful than the way I'm receiving it. I don't, I think that I need to, it's almost like asking a priest to

pray to God for me, right? When I can just go straight to God. So I don't need the gift. I need to connect to the love. I need to just say, forget all of the five love languages. I don't need any of them. Yeah. I am the language of God. You're just made to feel.

Yes. I get where you're coming from. I've never thought about this type of thing. I absolutely get where you're coming from. I've never thought about this type of trauma. I absolutely get where you're coming from. But I also think when I think about the love languages, and I'll come back to ancestral trauma, I just realized that like, I want all of them, you know?

Yes, of course. I like all of them. And so I've often questioned if as human beings, we can be boiled down to just one love language. You know, I am not. There are times when like you can't when I'm having an emotional moment, you can't show me love through giving me a gift. Not that I won't appreciate it. You know, I'll be very, very appreciative. But I'm like, I need your listening ear.

I need you to be me in this, you know. So that's quality time. So there are moments when the material is important. There are moments when quality time is important. When like, well, I think for me, the one that is actually the least interesting is words of affirmation, you know, so like, but all the other four are something that like, I deeply connect with, like physical touch is huge with me, all that, right? So I'm like, okay, that's interesting. I love that like, everyone was like all of the love.

No, but you know, what's funny is that someone had once told me how you find out like what someone's love language is, is you ask them, how do you know your mother loves you? And my mom only shows me love by bringing me a gift. I mean, she'd probably bring me one today if she loves me today. Now, what I did is I tested it on my children, my four children, right? So I asked my son, how do you know I love you? He goes, well, you always tell me that I, you know, you believe in me and, and you love, you know, this was words of affirmation, right? Then my daughter walked in the door and I gave her a big hug and she said, what are you doing? Don't ever do that again.

And I said, okay, so you're not touched. I said, how do you know I love you? She goes, I don't know. I like to go on adventures with you. We have a lot of fun. Yes. So it's interesting because that is how my mom shows me that she loves me so I asked my partner how do you know your mom loves you and he goes because she always gives

me a big hug and kiss every time I see her his is touch it's so true this is so interesting like I actually have never thought of that I know it. For me, it's, oh, this makes all the sense in the world. My mom was not big growing up on words of affirmation. So this is probably why words of affirmation are like extremely low on my list, right? Wasn't the way she showed you love. In fact, it was like a lot of criticism. So like words of affirmation are very, very low on my list. This is fascinating.

It is. It is amazing. It definitely, I've never seen it not work. But of course, I think that you do have this one that you were taught. But I do believe that you desire all of it. Really, truly. I I mean as a human that's what I thought until until until this conversation right like I like except for words of affirmation but like yes of course active service you make me tea my favorite tea you massage me yes touch all of those things yes yes of course like I know

that's so interesting it was such an epiphany and ancestral work around money and even how love is passed down from one generation to the next and as I've said before in my work is that all that depends on every individual that like everything that happens with in terms of our ancestral money story also kind of like collides with our past lives and the lives that we've lived from previous lifetimes, right? So what I find interesting is that all your kids have experienced you as a mom, but each of them are so uniquely different. And their definition of love is so different, right? Every one of them has chosen a different way of knowing what love is. And that can only come through their own souls.

And that's also their own individual experiences from the past. So what often happens is that with ancestral trauma, we also carry ancestral wisdom, right? Remember how I talked about like how 500 years is so recent, but we're millennia old. So but the trauma can sort of grip us. So with money, we also carry a lot of money wisdom. We must have, we made it this far. Our ancestors needed to know how to manage cattle, food, money, etc. for us to get this far and be alive. Otherwise, the entire lineage would have starved to death, you know, or we would have frozen to death, we wouldn't have had shelter, all those things. So our ancestors had a lot of wisdom, and they have a lot of wisdom, and they gave it to us. It's just that

the trauma, trauma has a way of gripping you, right? So that you focus a lot on that, because it's painful. So pain has, gets our attention more than pleasure most times, right? So what often happens is from a young age, we get stories passed down from one generation to the next from around money. And we carry those stories. But not only that, it's that somewhere in the past, our ancestors had experiences with money. Their nervous systems couldn't process some of those experiences. Some of them were deeply traumatic, deeply scary. Some of them were just annoying, but that annoyance turned into social embarrassment. And that embarrassment

was then passed on from one generation to the next. So every time one generation manages money, that emotion is triggered in the nervous system, but we don't know where it comes from. We just know that we feel the way that we feel emotionally and physically whenever we manage money. And it just gets passed on from one generation to the next until it just becomes a thing that, wow, in my family, when we manage money, we get freaked out. And I give the example of, say, for example, in South Africa, sometimes we look at people and we go, why won't certain African people buy land and why won't they buy property? Wow, let's go back just 100 years when African people had land in this country and they had houses. And then in the

middle of the night, or even in broad daylight, the apartheid government would come and kick people out of their homes and say, these are really nice houses. They only fit for white people. And then like they would chuck them out and then they would put them in villages in the middle of nowhere without any land, without any houses. And let's also go back to the fact that like when people, there were laws in this country where people could not renovate their houses in certain townships. If let's say you're broke, you had a broken window, you weren't allowed to renovate or replace that broken window until you got approval from the apartheid government. And if you did, you would get thrown into jail. So sometimes you'd have to sit with a broken window for a year because the government didn't

give you approval. So then your house would run down. You want to fix it, but it's either you live in a beautiful home and you go to jail or you live in a rundown home and you stay a free person. So most people have family to look after. You're not going to risk going to jail. So all these things happen. Now it becomes part of the trauma, that fear of, oh my gosh, if I renovate my house without getting

approval from the government, I'm going to go to jail. So now suddenly you've got people that are scared to buy houses, that freak out over getting land, all sorts of things. And people don't know why their nervous systems go into complete disarray when they get their first home. Why does their nervous system completely lose it? Well, because you're carrying the trauma of your ancestors that this house could be taken away from you. Like I have people who say to me, I don't know why now that I've gotten this incredible achievement or bought this car, whatever, I'm so scared that it will be taken away from me. Where does this fear come from? I've never had anything

beautiful taken away from me, but I'm living with this fear. And people literally live with that fear, especially here in South Africa. And they don't know where it comes from. And a lot of it is like, well, you live with that fear because it has happened and you don't know where it comes from. And a lot of it is like, well, you live with that fear because it has happened and you don't know where it's coming from because it's not your fear, you're carrying it. And so it makes it really, really difficult to own things in that case, because what does the nervous system want to do to get back to safety? It wants to self-sabotage and get rid of this thing as fast as possible. So you may find yourself manufacturing emergencies so that you miss mortgage payments and you no longer own the

house or some sort of thing happens so that you can get back to a sense of safety of not having that fear that you will lose this thing that you have just achieved right now. We carry these fears and we don't understand them because our nervous system is like our emotions and our thought and our stories are also, stories are carried through word of mouth in the family, right? So it's easier to catch that. But what's not easier to catch is how our nervous systems,

how our ancestors' nervous systems got dysregulated around money around certain events with money. And that means that we now have to reteach the nervous system to feel safe with assets with managing finances with managing money with having money and holding on to money so that it learns from 400 years of history or even longer for some of us that it is now safe to have money. And that may be years and years of work. So for someone who didn't grow up with the same history that I just mentioned, yeah, they may feel dysregulated for like a short minute. And you may wonder, why is it that like within a few months,

they are happy in their new home and they chilled with it? Well, if you grew up in say, white America, and you have seen your family for years, every generation, they've just had it. What do you feel about my papa died a few few years ago that he had inherited from his father and fathers before land rights where he got money every month? Hurricanes have taken up most land. I say even Mother Nature. I do know that the French Creole means that you were of mixed race. Okay. Mixed race means that you probably had a white father.

Now, the white father probably owned baby, even your mother. I have a grandmother who didn't have a name. She was slave of the grandfather. I don't know if you know much about Louisiana, especially New Orleans. There was a lot of voodoo there. And I read where this doctor had told this man that he had cancer and that he would die by Christmas and he did die by Christmas. But afterwards they found out he did not have cancer, but he still died by Christmas. And they called that like a curse. Like that is a curse. I'm going to tell you, I'm going to put this on you that you have this. And then it happens.

I don't know. What do you think? In South Africa, we have similar crazy stories. I remember growing up, they would tell me if someone ever comes to you and says, it means that like, this is your last day. That direct translation of that is hold the day and make sure it doesn't set on you the sun doesn't set on you so it's like literally this is the last day for you so that's kind of like a curse and people would be so scared of hearing so as a child I was always like oh my god

there are things that we don't understand and I do believe that land itself does like that there are certain places where the souls are not at rest we talk a lot about this in South Africa right well at least in my family where like there are times when like my mother has always said to us which means a person's tears never fall to the ground my mother has always said to us, iznyembe zizabantu azuwe lipansi, which means a person's tears never fall to the ground. You know, so a person, when you hurt another, their tears come back to haunt you. You know, so in places where I, this is,

so my thing, my take on that is that in countries where there's been lots and lots of oppression and bloodshed, there can't be peace until there is work that is done to put the souls at rest. So it's almost like there has to be a mass cleansing, you know. And I was actually thinking about that with South Africa as well, that like so much has happened in this country. It's been so much historically, you know, that like there has to be. That's why a lot of right now within my generation and the generation that's being born, there's so many shamans being born in this country. It's insane. So many people that are doing so much spiritual work and cleansings. And I was thinking about that, that a lot of that has to happen because the history that we have requires that there has to be so much healing work that is done and so much

cleansing so that the souls that have experienced all this oppression, all this pain can finally rest and be at peace, you know? So otherwise like the land itself can't have peace. I think there's work that needs to be unpacked and also just understanding some of our ancestral stuff does fall onto us to how do we then how do we then work with that privilege that fell onto us from our ancestors right I mean so I think that will be the work that you do with your ancestors but there also has to be an understanding from their side at least on your dad's side because your mother's side is a different story, right? My dad's side, I ended up finding out he had this name, that they were Jewish. So I'm like, oh my God, no matter where I went.

So I think, wow. So there's a lot of hiding going on in your lineage and hiding of self and identity. So there's a lot of invisibilizing. So it's about helping free your ancestors so that they stop feeling the need to invisibilize who they are so that they can start showing up fully. Because as long as they are still feeling that they need to hide, then they also are hiding their full strengths. And that means that the entire future bloodline will not be able to tap into that full wisdom and that full strength. Because once you hide, the thing that you're hiding, if it's your Judaism, your blackness blackness on either side it is that you are still hiding

within that within these identities there's so much strength so if they can just like take away that that those vows of invisibility and those cloaks of invisibility then like it allows the future generations to be visible in ways that they could not even have dreamt of, right? To stand firm within their identities. All of you comes through. A woman. Well, I tell you, you are such a powerful woman.

I just admire you. I mean, I think you powerful woman. I just admire you. I mean, I think you're beautiful. I think what you're doing is beautiful. You're an inspiration for all women. So thank you so much for coming on. Tell everybody where they can find you though and where they can look for your new book in the fall. Yeah, so the new book will be out on Amazon

and also on my website. In the meantime, I do have a free seven day training that people can go check out. It's a seven day tapping into your ancestral money wisdom training. So you get meditations to connect with your ancestors and to better understand their your ancestral strengths. So for example, if you're an entrepreneur, you will learn what is it that your ancestors were really, really good at in business? What are the key strengths that you need to be highlighting? And what are some of the things that you can outsource and hire out for? Because this is your key strength. And what are some of the things

that you need to work on a bit more? Is there a five-hour massage? I wish, I wish. No, there isn't. But I'll definitely send you the details to the five hour massage. I promise. So you can share it with them. People can also just Google infokin in Chiang Mai, Thailand. That's where the five hour massages are. But yeah, so you can go to that. And you can go to wealthy hyphen money.com forward slash training for the seven day training. Again, it's wealthy hyphen money.com forward slash training. And my podcast is the money magic podcast. So search for it on Apple, Podbean and iTunes. And yeah, leave me comments.

Let me know what you think. Oh, the podcast is also on YouTube. So yeah, I'll be back podcasting because I took a mini break because I've been writing the book, the next book. Oh my gosh. I'm super excited about that.

I appreciate you so much coming on. I love your energy. I feel like you've blessed me today. So thank you. Same with you, Shana. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. And thanks to our special guests for joining me.

If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com where you can work with me one-on-one or help support Sense of Soul Podcast by donating to my coffee fund. Thanks for listening.