Sense of Soul - Rock Hounding and Healing

Episode Date: May 2, 2022

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast we have a fun Spiritual Pair, Pam Urbas and Andy Duchovnay, owners of The Indigo Sanctuary. They are Rock Hounders and Sound Healers. Artisans in their own right, Pam and Andy also operate their own lapidary workshop, using gemstones they’ve collected on their travels, infused with powerful reiki. They are passionate about supporting and empowering others through their individual spiritual journeys, and they are eager to share their knowledge with your audience.  Pam and Andy came to spirituality the way so many of us do; looking for peace and guidance during times of hardship, illness, and grief. Along their journey, Pam and Andy have accumulated a diverse array of practice modalities and certifications, all focused on healing mind, body, and planet. They possess certifications in reiki, yoga, sound healing, and environmentalism.  Strong in their belief that the energy of the maker determines the energy of the object, Pam and Andy are committed to working hand in hand with partner curators, artisans, and trusted suppliers to source, commission, and create powerful, positive catalysts for healing. Check out their amazing Merch and learn more at their website. Use discount code SenseOfSoul15 to retrieve a 15% off discount at checkout at www.theindigosanctuary.com Follow their journey on Tik Tok: Gemsbytheindigosanctuary Watch Shanna’s Moqui ball dance… Visit our website to learn more about Sense of Soul Podcast. www.mysenseofsoul.com Join our Sense of Soul Patreon!! Our community of seekers and lightworkers who get exclusive workshops, live events like SOS Sacred Circles, ad free episodes and more. You can also listen to Mande’s mini series about her two NDE’s and Shanna’s Untangled mini series. Sign up today and help support our podcast. https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today we have with us spiritual artist, sound healers, and rock founders, Pam and Andy, the owners of the Indigo Sanctuary. Pam is a yin yoga teacher and Andy is an environmental advocate. We have really looked forward to this conversation because Mandy and I share the love for the beautiful treasures that Mother Earth has gifted us. So thank you so much for being with us. Hi, how are you? Nice to meet you. Our dog Puccini may join us. So he's pretty quiet. He's a little guy.

What kind of dog is it? It's a Yorkie. Yeah. They definitely have personalities, but a little temperamental. Oh my gosh. I know. I had a Yorkie once. I used to always dress her up in the cutest clothes.

He likes to go rock hounding with us. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, he does. There he is. I'm giving him treats while we talk here. Where do you guys live? Pennsylvania. Well, Philadelphia area, the suburbs of Philadelphia.

I'm telling you right now, probably I would say how many, what percentage, Shanna, like 80% of our guests are from Pennsylvania. We heard that yesterday listening to one of your other podcasts. Yeah. Virginia. I heard that about Virginia too. I'm originally from Boston, but honestly, I love Philadelphia. I love the city Philadelphia. It's very diverse. People are friendly. Pennsylvania is so big that you don't know like what part of Pennsylvania. Yeah, you can cross over from like our area to Pennsylvania without knowing it. So we are in Colorado. And you know, we have a lot of great rock hounding places here at the Des Moines. And yeah, cause I just go around just finding stuff, you know, and like my brother has like five acres. He has so much like petrified wood. It's like crazy. And his little boy likes to go rock hounding with me. And what we've noticed

is that sometimes you'll find something that's very rough. And sometimes you'll find it smooth and tumbled naturally. And I thought that that was so cool. And I explained to him and he he knows more than me almost. Yeah, rock hounding is amazing. And you're in the lucky spot. Colorado is known for their rocks. Yeah. Yeah, we held a Reiki retreat in Crested Butte, which we found out was one of the three places where Lapis Lazuli is. And we were actually already feeling a lot of high vibrations when we were hiking with the girls and there was this beautiful lake up there and we must have looked so silly we were like all there was like 20 women like on our hands and knees walking on this hiking trail and like digging

in bushes and trees and coming back with like piles of rocks I mean people were finding huge pieces of quartz. And then it dawned on me, oh, this might not be legal. Oh, yes. Well, if it's in a national park, it's not, right? You have to be, if national park, it's not. And some state parks, also it's not. We were in Utah and we went to an incredible state park that's now part of the Escalante National Preserve. Yeah.

And it's called the Petrified Forest. And as a state park, it's posted. It's against the law to take anything. In many places, it's the same. Yeah. You know, those Mokey balls. Man, we need to go and bring our kids and shove them down some diapers.

Well, you have to be careful because in some places there are legends that it's bad luck to take them. I know. We had purchased some of the Mokey Balls. And I will tell you I really struggled like with discernment like my body did not like when we weren't selling them as a pair well you guys will have to go and watch a video of mine I have one that dances for sometimes a good minute where would we find it? It just moves forever. I think I have the video attached to our website under ancestral

stones. But I mean, the only thing that could explain it is that outside of the ball it's like, I think hematite, and then inside it's sandstone, which would be kind of like a quartz, so you have two opposite energies. I mean, this is just biological thinking. I wonder, though, whether the sandstone has shaken quartz so you have two opposite energies i mean this is just biological thinking i wonder though

whether the sandstone has shaken loose on the inside cavity and maybe it creates inertia as it spins okay yeah because you just touch it very little and it'll start going and it goes in all different directions it's that's fascinating yeah it is so cool. We're excited to look at that. Well, you guys are fascinating. I would love to just start from the beginning. I mean, how did the two of you meet? How did this become a hobby? Like as children, were you out getting in the mud, grounding yourselves?

Was this kind of just innate part of your souls? Or was this a journey of awakening into this? Yeah, it's a good place to start. Well, as you know, we're rock hounds and we call ourselves spiritual artists. We've always enjoyed hiking and camping. Even when we dated, we met pretty young. Being in nature outdoors is our happy place.

I mean, it's our sanctuary. We feel grounded. On our hikes, it would always take us twice as long to get to our destination. Because Andy was always looking down at the ground, trying to find a rock. And it looked like a rock to me. And he was saying, I think this is da-da-da. I think this is, you know, something. And I'd go, yeah, yeah.

And when we got home, 90% of the time, it was something very special. I mean, the rock was in dirt and he could still see it. I think I'm pretty good with identifying gems, but not like that. So he's very good at identifying gems. And I think it was more than a sight. Like, did you feel it? I was feeling it. Some, I think I would say it was my third eye that was sensing it. It was definitely his third eye that was sensing it. And he just knew, I've got to take this gemstone home. It's going to be something very, very special.

You know, for many years we did this, just went to places to enjoy the hiking experience. And then one day I said to him, let's get a rock tumbler and he's like I had that when I was 13. Wow. Yeah I got it from my bar mitzvah present and I was like well we could get another one and play around so we did that we take home rocks and we tumble. And tumbling is wonderful. It's a wonderful thing to do for adults. Your inner child automatically comes out. It's great to do as a family and for children. And it teaches you a lot of spiritual aspects too.

You need to have a lot of patience to wait for the finishing product. It teaches you mindfulness. It really does. And steps. So we really like rock tumbling, but then we moved on to lapidary work, which is faster. It might take more of a skill. I don't think it's a difficult skill to do lapidary work, at least to make cabochons. It's not so difficult, but it is faster, faster moving. Yeah. Before we jump into that, I have to ask, do you remember who gave you that tumbler as your gift? I bought it. And years later, I went back to this store to buy more equipment. And it was

47 years later. And the guy goes, do you remember who sold it to you because we've owned this store for forever but i bought it myself for myself oh you bought it for yourself as a gift for your apartment yeah he got money yeah and then he bought it for himself so that's i remember i forgot that what a what an amazing gift to give yourself you You know, my grandmother, she has an eye for very old, special, unique, and expensive antiques. And I was asking her the other day, she's kind of like you. She could go to a garage sale and she's just like mesmerized and kind of almost taken over by the energy of an antique. And she doesn't know why, but she says, I have to have this. So she'll take it.

And it's always worth so much money. And it's always coming from the same era. And so I said, maybe in a past life, like this was the era that you lived in. I wonder for you, in a past life, maybe you were a miner or something. I think both of us come from a long line of stone workers. Yeah. That's what we think. Yeah.

Yeah. Because in our garden, yeah, we collected some stones and we built some really pretty stone walls. And when I was building the stone wall, I was thinking, like, intuitively, I just knew how to, like, stack them. And I'm really not, Andy's more into, like, the science of things, like physics and things like that. You know, how, like, how things should balance. And they were just balancing perfectly. Yeah. balance and they were just balancing perfectly yeah so I can understand how your grandmother like just it's a guttural it's a guttural thing yeah my father was a collector of everything stones and also stamps and cards and all that stuff I think that that was like a very popular hobby back in his childhood. He's passed now, but when he died, I had uncovered treasure, lots of treasure. I don't know if you

guys can see. Yes. So this is his little hand writing and I have four of these and inside of them all of his little kid rock collection and when he passed his brother had come and he said just did your dad save our rock collection because I he mentioned it years ago and I said oh yeah you can have that you know you know this is a while back before I realized what I had and he says oh no i can't take that stuff and he's like as far as i remember we had some stuff i don't think you can take on planes let's go really and i went and got it i'm looking through it i'm like yeah i don't think we're supposed to have uranium or anthrax something or this hairy stone i'm holding that's uh what is this oh it's asbestos okay i should probably put that down you have to be careful with rock counting and lapidary work

you have to know what you're handling for safety yeah yeah and so that's what ended up happening i was curious about what we had and i wanted to look through them in my children. So I was researching and I researched each gemstone in each. Well, there's so many different kinds of stones. There's sedimentary. Yes. There's all those different kinds. And I wanted to make sure. Well, and I also saw that in some of them, there looked like there had been little maybe explosions or burning of the paper in there. And so I was like, oh, yeah, I'm smelling sulfur and all these things. And so I'd go through each stone and I'd say, OK, let's see what this is.

Let's see if it's something we can hold right in touch. And that's how I learned all about them. And during that time, coincidentally, I was going through Reiki one, two, and three, and I got to three and they said, well, bring some stones with you. We're going to learn some crystal grids. And I was like, well, I don't have any those, you know? And I'm like, wait, I do. I have a lot. And so I go through and I had, you know, I mean, they're precious to me. I mean, it's a treasure. It is a true treasure.

And it means so much to me. Stones that my dad found. Physically, he'd have the state next to it of where he found it, where he traded for it or whatever. I have absolutely like the most amazing collection of gemstones. That's such a treasure to have his energy. You touch on a really important part about stones, and that is stones, like any product, any material, they absorb an energy, whether it's good energy or bad energy. And that's one of the reasons that we love finding our own gemstones. Or if we get a

stone from a fellow rock hound, that way we know it's ethically sourced and it didn't involve child labor or environmental damage, because those things can infect the energy of this stone. So, you know, when people are looking for stones, it's important to find out if you can, well, where did it come from? There's a lot of pieces coming from China where they have factories that are manufacturing towers and spheres, and they're very pretty.

But from our personal perspective, we don't know the energy of those pieces. So we don't get those. We like to make sure the energy of our stones is good. So what you have for your father certainly has the purest energy. It's a gift. I know. It would be considered, it's called old stock. You see it a lot in the lapidary world where there are people who had collections from a very long time ago and it's in a class by itself, old stock. So it's really a wonderful thing. So our listeners probably don't know what that means lapidary like what's the difference if you're going you know the lapidary world what does that mean the raw counting world is people who collect and lapidary is a type of art where you take the stones from the raw form and you make

something out of it you could cut it and shape it into a around cabochon for jewelry around polished shape or people do intarsia where they put the stones like tile work next to each other and polish it so lapidary work is the taking of the raw stone and converting it into a different product, a different piece of art. So they go together. A lot of lapidary artists are rock hounds. They want to know where they found it. It's really a pleasure to be able to take something from the earth you find yourself and make something of it, because it just gives you the start to finish.

And as spiritual artists, that's part of the awe that we feel to find the beauty of nature and have some small part in changing it just to make it pretty in a different way. I love that. So spiritually, do you believe that these stones have energy that help people as well and do you make the pieces based on maybe people's needs um yes um we certainly believe in the energy of stones and we can tell like sometimes when we're collecting the stones ourselves, like in a location, there's one stone, kyanite, where I seriously feel that energy. I think we both do. It affects us deeply. So we do know we respond to the energy of stones.

Yeah. I are rockhounding specifically going rockhounding I can only be at certain sites for a certain amount of time he is less sensitive to the energy he could stay forever but I know that if I stay there too long I'd say three hours is about my time limit that I come home and I'm totally like wiped out. Like it depends what the site is. It depends what the site is. I mean, a lot of times, like when we were looking for Rhodonite in Massachusetts in the Berkshires, it was it was past three hours and it wasn't an easy stone to find he was digging away because sometimes it's really hard labor and and i was i thought okay i'll take a break i'll just like look around in my surroundings and there was a little toad and the toad was jumping so i thought i'll just follow the toad and then toad jumped

right onto a pile of rhodonite and rhodochrosite and i'm like andy we found it here he's digging and a spirit animal guided the way so it's interesting what little breaks can do and spirit guides yeah yeah but i think that's in in anything like if you're in a place and you feel an energy and you can only be in that place for a certain amount of time you really have to you know identify that feeling and just you know give into it yeah each stone's going to have the energy of the land right and so you know and i ancestry is such a big part of my journey it's one of the reasons why I even discovered some of the gemstones and some of the rocks that I did because one of the things that I had found that is there was many stones that were very specific to just

this land no other land right or just place. And how unique and amazing is that? That's fascinating. If you could just list off some of the places you've gone rock hounding and maybe talk about a few of your favorites. Sure. Starting up north, Massachusetts, Plainfield, Massachusetts, where we collected rhodonite and rhodochrosite, which I think is both of us is one of our favorites. That's our state stone, rhodochrosite which i think is is both of us is one of our favorites that's our state stone rhodochrosite yeah and their heart stones their heart healing stones and we're really drawn to those then we went to rhode island and we collected moonstone moonstone beach and that was beautiful cape, we've collected ocean granite, which is

a first and second chakra stone. So it helps the creative energies of the second chakra be grounded by the root chakra. So that's a really good one that we love. Is that like a rainbow moonstone? The moonstone from Rhode Island, the rainbow moonstone is white. We were finding peach moonstone there. Okay, okay. And in fact, we do have a TikTok about what's called the Schiller effect that shows the moonstone for people to check out. Then we've collected in New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia. Our favorite is Utah. Our favorite is Utah. We spent two weeks in Utah in October. What part of Utah?

Well, we started up, we started in Salt Lake City. Okay. And we drove down to, I may mispronounce it, Nephi or Nephi. I think it's Nephi. And we collected banded calcite there. And then we went down to Milford, which was an incredible location. And we went to an opal claim with a friend of ours and collected bubble opal then we went and collected picasso marble which is just incredible and then we later we went to get obsidian so all of that within like 25 minutes of it's so it's such a synchronicity because this morning I have a friend who reached out that I haven't spoke to for a long time. And she asked me if I would want to come visit her and take a

little road trip to Utah. She's in St. George. And so maybe her and I can go explore. Well, speaking of St. George, we brought back a lot of raw, unprocessed selenite. Selenite. And selenite is so great for clearing the energy of other stones. And these are just pure and unprocessed. They're not like the things that are milled in factories. So that's from Utah. Do you guys always ask Mother Earth to take the stones, you know, or do you just grab them all and leave? Because I always, whenever I take a stone, I kind of always just, you know, kind of give thanks before I take it. Yeah, I think we do. I think when we're out in that open air, especially Utah, it's so open, your breath slows down and you're much more mindful to do that yeah when we were collecting for kyanite it wasn't as open and i think we did

that blue or black kyanite that you're collecting it was believe it or not black and indigo. And honestly, we have to work constantly at being more mindful. Because I think I know, if you ground yourself with a feeling of being thankful and grateful, then you'll be able to stay in the energy for a longer period of time. I think, you know, I watched your guys's TikTok and I was shocked at some of the pieces that you were holding. And it's, it's so cool how you guys open them up like a butterfly in your video on TikTok. But I was so shocked at how the outside, you might walk past it and think it was nothing and then you would open it and it was just like jaw-dropping the beauty of it nature it's nature it really yeah that's the wonderful thing about rock hounding you know and feel that that union you know that you are nature

and you're in nature you know everybody's connected. Well, and like I was saying, the land itself and what history and energy that is like encapsulated inside of the earth, right? And inside of these stones. And some stones are going to absorb that more than others. Is that right? Absolutely. You really, yeah, you really defined it so clearly. Yeah. And it does depend on the land.

It really depends. And not all rockhounding places are pretty. Actually, some, I find it sad when you are at a rockhounding place and developments are coming in. Yes. Well, and there's been a lot of paranormal investigators we've talked to who had found this common thread with, you know, these neighborhoods are very haunted homes that were built on top of limestone, or even like Gettysburg, which is a field that is on limestone, that it holds those energies within. Or like the Stanley Hotel here in Colorado is on top of courts. We were very into paranormal. Well, I think that's very consistent with what we were talking about earlier about the energy that goes into a stone based on how it is collected and if it's processed, how it's processed. It's good energy or bad energy, but it goes into it. The story of like the Apache tear. So when you have a stone and there's the story behind it,

especially one like that, it's just like amazing to me, the energy, even because the story has been told over and over, it just, when you hold it, you do feel this kind of like native indigenous kind of energy do you agree oh absolutely with apache tears we were in new mexico and we went to a site tent rocks and they have apache tears there but they limit, they tell you, you may not collect because I think they do it for the environmental geological perspective. But I also think you're right that there's a spirit and a soul in those Apache tears. And they're from that place, like you're saying with the ancestry, and they belong in that place. But they are beautiful, beautiful stones.

You know, I wanted to share a quick story. I've said this before on our podcast, and I think that this goes back to what you originally said was important to bring up, Andy, and that was you have to be careful. Because I'm sure we all have a story about a time where we weren't aware of the stones properties and energy. And for example, I had a huge piece of quartz, it was beautiful. And I slept with it in my hands and I had an amazing download of information and I couldn't stop writing the next morning, but literally I got no sleep. And I called Shanna, like my energy was so high. My vibration was so high. I was probably talking fast. I mean, I just couldn't get out, you know, enough writing in my journal about this message I received. And that's a positive story, but I'm

sure we all have a negative one as well. I mean, I'm sure not everyone wants to be up all night talking to the spirit world, but I enjoyed it. Do you guys have any similar stories? Well, I love meditating with stones. It's very simple. I meditate, but the stone is on my lap or very close to me. A lot of times I like, you know, the feeling of it on me and, um, you know, depending what I need to meditate, to, to help me meditate, you know, I'll use that stone and I use that same stone for at least 30 days. So I don't change stones. So it's a, it's a friendship and an energy that moves into my soul very mindfully and gently. You know what's interesting? After my dad died and I opened up these little things I'm going through, I was so very attracted to this rose quartz he had. I held

it and I kept it with me and I didn't even know what I was doing, but I held this pink stone. And now, you know, years later and more experienced with gemstones and Reiki, I realized that that stone's energy is so calming and loving. It is a heart chakra stone and it is for great. That's what I would recommend for grief because it's what you need. And so unknowingly my energy knew that I needed that energy and I kept it with me unknowingly, you know, that it was comforting me, balancing me and also how beautiful it was. It was my dad's. So, but yeah, it was just amazing. I think that your energy almost like matches with whatever you need and you do, you hold on to them. I mean, these things just happen naturally. It's like you can read it or we can talk about it,

but it just happens naturally. It's just this energetic connection that's so divine it is and i think children um indy and i sell at uh you know shows trade shows and different shows and um when children come up to our table you can see they don't overthink it. And you can see them look at it quickly, but they always want to touch it and like really have a relationship with the stone. And we give some away for free. And you would think we're giving away like, you know. I love that.

Yeah, I think children are really there. They, I think they're really interesting to watch and learn from. Yeah. And, and, um, we, for that, we love, uh, we make a palm stone too, and, uh, people can, you know, tell us what kind of, um of stones that appeal to them and will make it special for their needs. Yeah, do you want to talk more about that? And there's also a process called making a doublet, where you take two stones and you file one end of each one so that they're flat, and you glue them together so it's seamless.

And then you cut and shape it. And it's one stone, but it's made of two. So, for instance, we love working with obsidian, black obsidian and red jasper. So that deals with different chakras. We love making palm stones with root chakra stones because we firmly believe that you must be grounded in your root chakra first before you do anything. So we love having root chakra stones with other chakra stones. Like you don't want to be all in the upper chakras without being grounded in your lower chakras. So we like to balance the chakras when we make our meditation palm stones. I would definitely suggest that because

I found that out the hard way, just like Mandy was saying. One time I put tourmaline underneath my pillow. I slept like I had taken Ambien. I mean, there could have been a fire. I said, I can never do this again. I slept till like 11 o'clock. That happened to me with lapidolite lapidolite is a high lithium stone and it's interesting because areas that have lithium in their groundwater have lower rates of violent crime

and lapidolite and its sister stone lithium gel silica we collected in new mexico and like it's a protection from bad stuff happening when it happens you know you grab your lapidolite and i put it under my pillow and i had to put it away in the middle of the night because i was dreaming too much it was like really unsettling so like your crystal it wasn't welcome to me though it was really too much so I never yeah you got to play around with it because I think like you were saying earlier how PM is more you know just sensitive to that and I am too right I'm very sad like when we go into the crystal stores here we've got like you know how they have like furniture row we have like crystal row by the last store i'm like i'm about to pass out you have to cleanse yourself between stores maybe with some sage or cellulite

something well you know i'm very sensitive also when i'm holding them so that was one of the first experiences of stones when i'm holding them and i'm you know trying I'm very sensitive also when I'm holding them. So that was one of the first experiences of stones. When I'm holding them and I'm, you know, trying to figure out what each stone is and I'm cleansing them a little bit. Well, that was actually the first thing. I cleansed this one stone. It was just dark brown. I'm trying to figure out what it is. I put it under the water and I almost dropped it.

I was so flipped out because it started to have this iridescent blues and greens and all this stuff. And I was like, what is this? It was a raw piece of labradorite and it hadn't been shined or touched probably. And God knows when or ever. And I held that thing afterwards in my hand. And what happens is, is my entire muscles in my, in my hand go in, they react, they start to pulsate. Almost 90% of the time I hold a stone, my hand reacts that way. And what I love to do when I really have one that is so strong, but I know that most people will be able to feel it. I love to have that be like a tangible experience for someone who may not be a believer to actually hold that stone and feel that energy, how strong

it is. Yeah. And sometimes it takes a while for people to develop the relationship with the stone or to get used to the subtle feelings because subtle feelings are hard for everyone to sense but like pam said when we pick a palm stone to meditate with we stick with it for 30 days because it one you want consistency but, it takes a while to develop a relationship or a sensitivity to a stone. Yeah, I love, Pam, how you said a friendship. Like that just made my soul go, oh, I love that. Like you really spend time with it and build a friendship with it. You know, I have a lot of like Christian friends who always say, I don't understand.

I don't get it. And I always tell them, it's the same thing as those little wooden crosses that you hold in your hands that you pray with. It's the energy of that wood. You know, the source, God, whatever you want to call it, is in everything. And they all have a different energy, just like that wooden cross in your hand. And they're like, oh, okay. You know, they finally get it. Well, in that, I mean, popes have been wearing jewels from the beginning of Christianity. They've been in even in the Bible, you know, Mandy, when we discovered that, you know, this is so silly, it has nothing to do with anything but the earth, their beautiful jewels and treasures.

There's nothing witchy about them now if you go back to the old testament you'll see that aaron had a breastplate of 12 gemstones and that was the origin of the gemstone months really yeah that's amazing and if you do other research you'll see that the word crystal comes from the greek meaning ice and amethyst translates roughly to not drunk and the greeks thought that it was either a charm against getting drunk or a charm for a hangover so it goes back really far And if you look at all cultures all over the world, they have their gemstone traditions. Like the nomadic tribes in America and North America and South America and in Asia, in the high plateau areas, they really have always uniformly respected turquoise.

So how is it that universally, whether it's Peru or in Mongolia or in Southwest United States, how is it that all these people had the same attraction to the same kind of stone? There's just something universal that kind of proofs it for you. Right. Well kind of stone there's just something universal that kind of proofs it for you right well one stone that's popular that i was led to because again during

my ancestry journey i wanted to connect with the land with my ancestors well my dad's family is from czechoslovakia that's where his mom and dad from. So of course led me to what we all talk about sometimes with you're in the stone world, you know about Moldavite. So I'd love to hear about Moldavite from you guys. Moldavite, one thing is it's important to buy Moldavite from a good source because we don't handle Moldavite, but we have heard stories of a lot of fake moldavite being sold so that's important moldavite is really fascinating because it's not an outer space rock but it's created when a meteorite comes down to earth hits the, and infuses with the earth's minerals and sends them up in the air, and then they form and they come back down. I think they're probably very similar to the

Apache tears you mentioned, because I believe that Apache tears were formed when volcanoes erupted and sent lava up in the air, and then it crystallized into the tears. So the Tektite is what it's considered. And, you know, I've actually, I have had people who we've talked about Moldavite. They went out and found a replica dealer and got a piece and couldn't wear it because it was just absolutely too much for them. And they would experience the flush. I can tell you because I got my piece and actually I ordered it from Ukraine and it was on this small little necklace that I wore.

And it became a part of me when you talk about making a friendship, like this thing was an extension of me. There was this time that I took it off and I can't remember if it was for a massage or whatever it was, but I didn't put it back on right away. And do you know, I was, I still today cannot put it back on. It's just too much. Shanna, I'll take it. My mother got a Moldavine necklace with a piece of turquoise. It's like, it's so beautiful from a Native American. And it was like $12 for this necklace. I mean, she's had it for, you know, 40 years. And I saw it in her jewelry box. And I'm like, Mom, do you know what that is? She had no idea. I mean, it's a big chunk, too. So it's definitely gone up a lot in cost. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. I wanted to ask you because we've never had a guest on who talks

about the process. I want to talk a little bit more about it. You said it can be very hard work. You know, my story is a little different. I started paying attention more to stones after my near-death experience because I was a little more mindful and present and felt like one with everything. And I remember the first time I was walking through a granite warehouse and I was looking for some granite for my countertops and I could not believe the beauty that I was seeing in these this granite and these stones and the marbles and everything that they had in there and that's kind of how I started like being intrigued by by stones and the process it's absolutely mind-blowing when they're pulling these huge pieces out of mountains and how they do it. And not only that, but the different colors. I had

no idea that stuff like this existed on earth. It almost looked fake because it's so beautiful. Rock hounding for you, what does that look like? What do you use? And then I know there's some stones that can be in water and some stones that can't. Can you just talk about the process in general? Our first process begins with research. If we're going to an area, we have a lot of tools that we use to find out what can you collect and where do you collect it? And if we're planning a rockhounding trip, the two of us spend a lot of time with our books and maps, looking at where do we go and what sites are near other sites. We also are parts of Facebook rockhounding groups, and they're very helpful with places they've gone to. So when we go to rockhound, we have a good idea of what we're going to look for and we make sure we

study it like pictures so you know what it is sometimes on a beach it's it's just easy but like pam was describing with the rhodonite and rhodochrosite because it's got manganese in it it's covered in black a black layer so you don't know what it is you have to dig it out and hammer it to see what's inside that's one thing that does require some digging and some hammering other times the rocks are on the ground and that certainly makes it easier we don't do a lot of heavy hammering into the walls of the locations. We don't do that. We have a friend who was trying to convince us to use dynamite.

And we said, no, no. Because I have a whole kit for you. It's just so easy. I'm like, oh, no. Oh, my God. That would be terrifying. But we do love our equipment. Because I think you were asking about once you collect the rocks,

then the process for us begins of how do we process them. A lot of times we always wash them. And a lot of times we'll try to clear the energy, whether it's with sage or singing bowls. So we want to cleanse the energy before we start. Some pieces are beautiful by themselves and it's the spirit of the stone that kind of tells us I'm okay the way I am. You know don't manipulate me and we don't do anything to those. Other times we may do a little bit of cutting and polishing and keep a lot of the natural shape to it. And other times the stones are just in block form and you really have to do more. So we have large diamond slab saws that will slice the rocks into flat slabs. And then we use a smaller saw to cut it into the shape we want and then we go to

a different machine with different wheels of different coarseness and you grind them and then you polish them into shape so that's how we take it from you know the raw to the finished but we really try to listen to what the stone is saying, you know, to follow. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Do you guys wrap your pieces? I mean, let's talk a little bit about this artistic creativity that you both have. I haven't quite found mine yet. Yeah. No, I'm sure you have. I know. We're not really into wrapping. If we do a wrap, it's a very simple wrap because we don't

want it to take away from the stone. But we do malas. That's something I love doing malas. It's a meditation for me. I love hand nodding. I mean, it could take me forever and I don't care and we both make bolo ties this bolo tie idea started with Andy because Andy's like you know I love jewelry and you know what I'm gonna make jewelry for myself and he started making a bolo tie and uh um and then um and I would wear it to work and people would stop me because you know no one ever wears them but guys don't get to wear gemstones very often and i wanted to i wanted to rock it i wanted to own it and you did huh rock your rocks yeah yeah rock your rocks i like that let's talk about your website. It is beautiful.

And first of all, I have got to get one of those. I don't even know what you call it. It's like home decor, but it's like a plaque with a stone in the middle. Oh my God. Do you guys make everything yourselves? We're kind of shifting. We started working with some artists in Nepal and they're woodworkers and we would very often design what we wanted and have them carve it for us. Oh, they're beautiful. Yes. Thank you. And they're very talented.

But lately, the past year, we've really started exploring our own woodworking skills. And that's been really fun for us. So we're starting to show a great deal more of our original pieces that are all made by us with the stones and the wood. How did you guys come up with the name Indigo Sanctuary? Well, we believe that everyone should have a home sanctuary in which they feel safe and supported and that encourages them to have their daily home spiritual practice. So that's why sanctuary was important to us. And indigo is the color for the third eye, for knowledge and insight. So we combine those together. And I think that really summarizes our mission to help people in their spiritual journey,

to give them knowledge and share our experiences with them and our services and provide them with products that they might want to put in their home sanctuary to support their spiritual daily practice. Can we talk about that, the placement of stones? I mean, I ended up having these stones all over, right? At first, not knowing what I was doing. And then I kind of used a little feng shui but not even intentionally but you know they're darker stones like you said those rooted stones they're more protective and that's just natural it's amazing to me how the energy of these stones really do match the energy of the chakras and we can use them for protection and maybe for to like increase energy in areas or like to train for money, right? Something like that. Or, you know, placing certain stones at your front

door. What do you guys do? Do you guys use stones that way? Yes, we do. We have stones all over we're constantly working on like oh let's declutter but when you mention the front entrance that's really a good point we have our jade tree and we have usually black stones by the front door door. Grounding is really important to us. And that grounding feeling of leaving your home, you need to take with you. So and then coming into your home, you need to have that grounding feeling too. We just really strongly believe that if you are not grounded, you cannot be balanced. So grounding is, that's always there. We have decorative pieces around our house too, and that we do more intuitively. It seems like they belong there. We don't really ask, you know,

is this the right chakra for that place? Except for the entranceway. The entranceway is we really make sure there's always grounding stones there. I love that. I've never heard that. That's a really good reminder. So when you're leaving, take that peaceful grounding with you. That's great. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's like a tree. I think that's where I like plant. It doesn't necessarily have to be a feng shui plant, but I think a plant at your entrance is important, you know, symbolizing the tree. Because if you're grounded and the wind comes,

you know, stress comes into your life, which it's going to happen, you're going to stay grounded. You might sway from side to side a little, but you'll be grounded. You know what, let's bring it present. I know today there's a lot of fear. A lot of people are having anxiety. What are some good stones for the fear, anxiety, things like that? Okay. I think lapidolite is probably one of the best stones. When we went to New Mexico, we had never, it was many years ago, we never heard about lapidolite. We actually thought, because it was in the raw form, we hadn't, you know, really polished it yet. We thought it was amethyst, but the lithium is really calming.

I don't usually swear. I was told not to. So I always have to take a deep breath before I say it, but when shit hits the fan, you grab your lapidolite. I mean, there's no way of explaining it. And we find that people love purple. If you're going to pick a color, they might not say it's their favorite color, but they always gravitate towards purple. Yeah, can you think of any other? Obsidian.

We like black stones, like obsidian for grounding, hematite for protection from negative energy i think that's a really good one um and and i think if you're going to do something grounding and something for calming like the lapidolite a a heart stone is really good. You don't want to have too many stones at once. You want to limit that number to a relatively small number. I like a heart stone with a grounding stone and a calming stone. I love it. Which is why you guys like the rhodochrosite and the rhodonite, huh? I love rose quartz, too.

Yeah, I had a student that was having some difficulties. And I gave her a piece of rose quartz. The next session, she came back and she said, Oh, Pam, thank you so much for that rose quartz. I really felt like I was connecting to the divine. And then I went home and I read about rose quartz. and it was in the book it was right there it was right there and she felt it that's what you were talking about before she felt it she didn't read anything she felt it so um sometimes I think fear and with all that's happening in the world that you have to connecting to a higher power, whatever that higher power is, will fight the fear. Faith fights fear. Yeah. You know what I used to do every full moon? I used to, it would take me a freaking hour and I put it on Facebook and I tell everybody you have to do this too.

I take all my stones out. All of them. I mean, I'm telling you, it would take me forever. I'd have trays and people helping me every, and I'd sit outside with my stones and I'd get them all cleansed up in the beautiful moon. And I stopped doing that. I only start doing the ones I worked with because it just became such a big, you know, job.

And I was like, I haven't even touched the stone, but yet I'm cleansing it every, you know, full moon and new moon and whatever. And so now I just make sure that whatever stones that I'm using in my healing sessions, because I do feel like absolutely a hundred percent, you have to do that. I've had, you know, pendulums that I've worked with that stop working. I mean, literally start doing crazy things because I wasn't cleansing them. So I started to realize that yes, indeed, cleansing was a very important thing if you're using them to work with clients. How do you feel about that? Absolutely. I really feel like that's a great point. Andy and I are

sound healers. We were trained in Nepal. Nepal is very special to us, you know, for many reasons, but for that too. And we find that we're very attracted to sound. You know, even if it's collecting rocks on the beach, the ocean sound, we like sound. And you can do clearing a stone in a bowl. We do that a lot. We do that a lot we do that a lot we put the we take a bowl we make sure there's a pillow in the bowl so that the the stone doesn't scratch the bowl and we just hit the bowl and clear it with sound so that is a technique that we always seem to gravitate to.

I mean, sage is really quick and we do that too and selenite, but we love the clearing bow. You could even take a bell or take a chime. Yeah, yeah. I have a chime that I'll use, you know, just bing. You do. Yeah. Isn't it?

Yeah. I mean, everybody feels it differently so it depends on the person i always say like sound for me it would be very beneficial and andy would be very beneficial for our clearing but maybe it's not for someone else so enjoyed being on the moon wasn't just the clearing of the stands you know it gave me an opportunity to go and connect with the moon which i was i'm very attracted to so you really connect it you really feel this connection see that connection to the moon yeah yeah yeah so that's why i was doing it get like that moon bay every you know full moon i just i desire it every month yeah there's a special

kind of singing ball called a full moon ball and very rare they're only made during the full moon so that the energy of the full moon is imbued into the ball it can take a number of months to make a full moon bowl because it's a lot of work so and and they're made in nepal there are a lot of counterfeits unfortunately unfortunately, coming out of China. But we have genuine full moon bowls. Oh yeah, we have a lot in our inventory and we go out during the full moon and play our full moon bowls

with our dog and Howl together. Yeah, I used to do the drum. My neighbors became nuts. You could do the drum. Oh my. Yeah. Shanna paints drums and they're beautiful. Oh, I love to see it.

But I feel like my soul is very, you know, artisan as well. You know, I'm always feeling very connected when I'm doing some art. Yeah. You know, I had a guest who said that we're all walking around with a different vibration. And they believe that our spine creates this vibration. So we're actually walking human instruments. And I loved that. And then just now when you guys were talking, I was thinking about a lot of people that have had near death experiences, because that's kind of my realm that I like to dig into, because of my experiences talk about when they transition to the other side or to

another dimension or whatever they want to call it they hear this music well it just dawned on me they're probably hearing souls because our souls are you know like eban alexander that we had on he talked about hearing the music everyone always hears this music well if we're walking instruments our souls are vibrating. They're probably hearing the souls around them. I really believe that. I think that's, it makes so much sense. Yeah. Isn't that beautiful though, to think about when you're like walking out in public and you're looking at people that there were all just walking instruments. When you're talking about vibration and frequency, we're talking about music. We're talking about gemstones. We're talking about individuals and it's just so beautiful.

We always are so focused on the physical, but everything is vibration and energy. It's gorgeous. It really is. As sound healers and as rock hounds were attuned to it, we started making gemstone singing bowl, playing sticks to have a synergistic feeling because singing bowls play to many chakras, but is we pair a a note for a singing bowl if it's a root

chakra singing bowl we will create a playing stick for that specific bowl with a root chakra gemstone and it adds to the experience for the player because we also think that with gemstone healing, there are affirmations that go with it. If it's a gemstone that's grounding, you can say or think, I'm going to be grounded. This is an example. We have these cases made for us but here's the playing stick and this is a rhodonite oh my god i want one i'm just going to explain to our listeners because they can't see this but you guys it's the stick to play the singing bowl with they come in these special sleeves and then they have stones on the end for this certain chakra. They're beautiful. You got to go to their website and check it out. Tell our listeners the name O and S. So it's Sense of Soul 15 and you can

put it in the show notes, but it's for 15% off for the entire website. And you want to know what, can you tell them what all your website consists of? Because you guys have services on there. You have tons of merch. Can you talk a little bit more about what's on your website? Certainly. As far as services go, Pam is a yoga teacher and meditation teacher for many, many years. And Pam offers a variety of services. One is private yin yoga sessions. And additionally, she helps people develop their own personal daily spiritual practice so it's she works with them for just a short number of meetings to to learn about what they want and help them explore their own creative process to make an authentic practice for themselves i offer singing bowl playing lessons.

So when anyone buys a singing bowl from us, they get a free Zoom singing bowl lesson to make sure that they can get the most out of their instrument. Beautiful, thank you. Yes, as far as products go, we are increasing the amount of gemstones, raw gemstones that we've collected and putting them on the website. So that's a new thing that we're working on. For malas,

like Pam mentioned, they're malas that most of them include gemstones that we found and incorporate into the malas, bolo ties. We do have spiritual wall plaques and planters that use gemstones as well, and a lot of them are things we make exclusively by ourselves. Singing bowls and other Nepali sound instruments, they're all, when I say singing bowls, they're all handmade seven metal bowls made in the traditional manner. They're not mass produced. They're not cast in a mold. They're all handmade in the original way. We have antique shamanic instruments, shaman bells and drums. That's what's on our website. You guys have been so fun. I just love your energy. It's very calming. I loved your your website is very simple.

It's very user friendly. And I loved the intention. You can really feel the intention behind what you guys do. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And now it's time for break that shit down. I feel that the breath is most important to really be your authentic self. You need to breathe deeply and calmly. It's a wonderful method to use in your sanctuary and outdoors. And I would say that self-care is not selfishness. Self-care is generosity. And in order to be able to be whole in yourself and give wholly to others, you should try to have a daily home practice that makes you feel good and helps you work towards being your authentic self. Self-care is generosity. What a beautiful way to look at it. I mean, you guys are, I can't believe you have a TikTok. You're making us feel like we're just way old school here. Oh, no. Oh, not at all. Well, I'll tell you a secret. Our daughter told us, you must get on.

Yeah. We love it now but she's like mom and dad just go on TikTok I love it so what is your TikTok it is gems by the indigo sanctuary okay we'll put it in the show notes

so everyone can go and follow you and watch your amazing videos thanks you guys so much for joining us. You guys were amazing. Well, thank you both. It was fun. It was fun. It was fun.

Again, listeners check out their website. It's awesome. Use that discount code. We'll put everything in the notes. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week.

If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.