Sense of Soul - Self Evolution

Episode Date: January 24, 2022

Today on Sense of Soul Podcast we have Barbara Dalle Pezze, Ph.D. she is an internationally recognized coach, leadership development expert and author, distinguished by her capacity to inspire and empower, and by her unique ability to connect and tune in with people from highly diverse cultures and backgrounds. Barbara is the author of the memoir, “The Unexpected Gift,” a true-life story of a woman’s journey of self-discovery and renewal after the implosion of her marriage. Dr. Barbara holds a Ph.D. in Ontology from The University of Hong Kong, a Masters in Counseling (CBT) from Monash University (Australia), and a Post-graduate Certificate in Human Resources Management and Organization from LUISS Business School, (Italy). She is also a member of the Leadership Development Faculty for the Asia Pacific Region at a top global financial institution. Dr. Barbara has extensive personal and professional experience on the subject of self-evolution, conscious leadership, and well-being. With over 18 years of global experience, she inspires individuals, entrepreneurs, and leaders to reconnect with their most profound and authentic essence, discover their purpose, and bring about positive change in their lives and in the world. She is passionate about changing the conversation about women, diversity and inclusion, to one that inspires gender and inter-generational collaboration. You can get her book on Amazon and to learn more, visit her website and follow her journey: Dr. Barbara Dalle Pezze | Website http://barbaradallepezze.com Instagram Don’t forget to give us 5 stars and leave us a comment! To learn more about Sense of Soul Podcast visit Sense of Soul www.mysenseofsoul.com You can also listen to this episode AD FREE on Patreon and NOW on Sense of Soul Patreon is the first day of the Self Love Workshop that goes until Valentines Day, you can also listen to Shanna’s mini-series about her ancestral journey, “Untangled Roots” and Mande’s mini series about her two NDE’s, and have access to our monthly SOS Sacred Circles! Sign up now! https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul NEW!! SENSE OF SOUL’S NETWORK OF LIGHTWORKERS! Highlighting our next Amazing Affliate and friend, Kelle Sparta aka The Spirit Doctor and her amazing programs, you can sign up here or through Sense of Soul! Take the journey to your inner greatness today. Sign Up  Here or go to our Affliates page to learn more. https://www.mysenseofsoul.com/sense-of-soul-affiliates-page

Hey there, Sense of Soul listeners. This is Kelly Sparta. You probably remember me from the January episode on Spirit Doctor. Shanna and Mandy and I have been talking and we're going to partner up and they're being kind enough to put out my new program. And so if you are a spiritual seeker who is further along in your process, if you are someone who is looking at all the programs that are out there and going, oh god, what? I've seen all these before. I've done this a million times. Where's the next level? Well, here's the next level. I do a program called Evolve with Sacred Energetics that is specifically for intermediate to advanced level students. It is a custom designed program where you work with me to custom design not only

a program that'll fill in any gaps that you've missed along the way, but also where we work on taking you to where you want to go and what the next things are that you want to learn. So if you're interested in that, go to mysenseofsoul.com and click on the link or hit the link in the show notes and sign up for a discovery call to see if this is going to be a good fit for you. I would love to talk to you. Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Today we have with us Dr. Barbara Della Pizzei. She is an internationally recognized coach,

leadership development expert, and is the author of the memoir, The Unexpected Gift, a true life story of a woman's journey of self-discovery and renewal after the implosion of her marriage. Dr. Barbara holds a PhD in Ontology from the University of Hong Kong, a master's in counseling from Menage University in Australia, and a postgraduate certificate that she got in Italy. Dr. Barbara has extensive personal and professional experience on the subject of self-evolution, conscious leadership, where she has helped and inspired individuals, entrepreneurs, and leaders to reconnect with our most profound and authentic essence, discovering their purpose and bringing about a positive change in their

lives and in the world. And we are super excited to have Dr. Barbara on with us today. Hi, Barbara. Thank you so much for coming on. Yes. So where are you country? I am currently in Italy. What about you ladies? We're in Colorado. So it's morning here. It's 1030. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Yes. Della Pizzei, how lucky are you to have such a fun last name? You have no idea. It was such a trouble when I was a kid to have that last name. Really? What does it mean? My ancestors, they were merchants in Venice. And so it means from fabric, from pieces of fabrics.

Oh, my gosh. So first of all, you are a doctor of ontology. You were in Hong Kong when you went to college. You've been all over the world. But what is your PhD in and what is that about? Yes. Ontology is a branch of philosophy and uh it is uh the let's say is the the study of the structure of the human being on in greek mean to be so it is the study of how human being is structured, let's put it this way. So there is a lot of investigation of

how things are, how human beings actively interact and think and how they are in the world how they move in the world and it is really studying in depth what the nature of being is it's quite interesting wow that does sound interesting because i'm always saying there should be a degree on like the spiritual anatomy of the body absolutely i agree with you on that you know i mean because we're so concerned with the physical so i like this so this would be more like the study of the mind and like how we relate to each other um it is really a study of how uh the human being show up in the world it is a little bit deeper than the study of the mind because it is okay really how um the structure the existential structure of a human being is why i'm fascinated

by it because it really has helped me understand at a deeper level um how we approach the world the phenomena that we see in the world, what do they mean for us, what is the meaning that we give to them, how do they potentially impact who we are and the way we are in the world, the way we interact with people. And for me, it has always been quite interesting. Let me give you a way of looking at it. I studied architecture for a couple of years at the university before moving to studying philosophy and particularly ontology. And the reason I did that, I changed because when I was studying architecture, they were teaching me how to build houses. What do I need to build a house? I was looking at the material that constitute a house,

how these materials go together in order for the house to stand, and the mathematics behind it, what are the forces that keep the house in place, and everything that I needed to be able to put together to make a house and make it that it stands right so that people can live in it and i remember thinking i don't care much about how to build a house for human being i don't i'm not really interested in what are the materials that constitute this house i'm more interested in understanding the materials that constitute a human being before building a house for the human being. And that's when I realized that's too early for me to learn how to build a house. Let me understand how the person that will inhabit those houses is made,

what it's the person about. And so philosophy for me was this groundwork on understanding the nature of the human being. And, and, and within that, then there was psychology, there's the spiritual work, there was understanding more and more about all the components of the human being. That's a great story. And I love how you were led from one area to the next through that kind of awakening of, wait, I don't care about the house. I want to know about the human. I love that. That's a cool story on how you found your purpose.

Can I ask that while you went into this, first of all, why did you choose to go to college in Hong Kong? And second of all, it seems like a degree that would force you to really also look at yourself. Yeah, actually, my college degree, I studied in Italy and in Germany. My PhD is the one that I did in Hong Kong and it happened that I was there because I was interested in learning more about the world. And it just happened that the opportunity came from Hong Kong. I didn't choose Hong Kong per se. I just wanted to start exploring the world outside of Italy. And for me, any countries would do because for me, it was just a passion to learn,

to learn about diversity. And the opportunity came with Hong Kong, and it was amazing because Hong Kong is a melting pot of everything. It's the New York, used to be, now it's a little bit different, but it used to be the New York of Asia. Smaller dimension than New York, but be now it's a little bit different but it used to be the New York of Asia smaller dimension than the New York but it is the similar similar concept and so I I loved it the in Hong Kong I encounter all kinds of people with all kinds of background cultural background social background educational background and that as you said, Mandy, indeed, questioned my identity, because I was arriving in Hong Kong as an Italian brought up in easily traveled in Europe. Yes, did some holiday here

and there. But as to who I am, I was still defined by being Italian. And that was all I knew about myself. But when I arrived in Hong Kong, people that were so different from me, they were thinking differently, they were given importance to different things, they had different values. And so I decided to open up and decide to question myself as to what I believed in, what I, what my values were. And I wanted, I had an opportunity either to be closed and decide, no, who I am, it's great and that's it, or open up and be questioned by diversity, which I chose to do, and then decide who I wanted to be and what I was choosing in a more conscious way, my values, what I was standing for. And that was an amazing experience. Not easy,

not easy, but really nourishing. I have to say. It's got to be a tad intimidating also to go to a completely different country where you do not speak their language and where you're learning and you're getting this PhD on interpersonal communication and how people interact and how they show up in the world. I would be so scared and intimidated because of the differences, especially the language barrier. How did you overcome that? And did you learn the language? Actually, you know, Hong Kong is bilingual, so they speak both Cantonese and English as the official language. And so, no, I was not worried about it, but I was more excited and I had more curiosity about what I would have discovered than fear of not being ready for it.

And probably that was a little bit risky. I just started to immerse myself in that reality. I didn't know English very well at the time. That is funny I think because I didn't know many people actually I didn't know anybody in Hong Kong when I arrived. I moved there with my then-husband and because I needed to find a job, discover the place and learning the language, I started going into banks, asking questions, so that they would answer me. And so I would have like 20 minutes free English chat. And so I started going into shops as questions, as you would do when you are a shopper.

No intention of buying things, but with the intention of learning and speaking with people. And that actually was quite funny. And it helped very much to get me started. I love that. Yeah, you actually speak good. Yeah, you do. And you, I mean, you really did immerse yourself then. You went in fearless.

Like I'm putting myself out there to learn. That's so great. Yes. I mean, you also went to Australia. Was that a before or after? Because you also did study, you studied counseling. I, it was after. I spent several years in Hong Kong and then life took me to Australia and it was in Sydney

and I loved it. It was so beautiful. It's a great country great environment completely different lifestyle compared to hong kong hong kong is sad is like um the pace the rhythm of the city very intense very highly paced people are stressed and because they work long hours the the density of population is very high so it was a completely different feeling Sydney people are relaxed they go to work but they enjoy the beach life as well so I remember one morning I am an early riser I decided to go to the beach very early because I wanted to meditate and just have a moment before starting my day and

I decided you know what six o'clock I will be at the beach and I'll have my coffee and my time there. Ladies, I arrived there and the world was at the beach already. Jogging, swimming, surfing. It looked like 12 p.m. for them. And I'm like, OK, I've learned something new about people in Sydney. I love that. They're early risers trying to get all they can out of nature and the day. Absolutely.

So, yes, that was interesting. Very interesting. For the soul as well, given that your podcast is Sense of Soul. Of course, there was value in both. And at the same time, I loved Hong Kong because it was so exciting and stimulating from many different respects. And so it was a little bit challenging at first to move from Hong Kong space to Sydney space because it is slower. It was slower. And it took a little bit of time and it actually helped to focus on different on different aspects of life. I see value in both of them. At that time, I would say that I probably preferred a little bit more the asshole of Hong Kong than than the quieter and more relaxed time in Sydney. Eventually, I appreciated both worlds so when you

were going through college you you mentioned your husband at the time yes and your experience with your husband and where you are today or is a big part of your journey. Do you mind sharing that, Jane? No, absolutely not. Actually, my ex-husband, because we have divorced, and the experience of the divorce is a big part, as you say, of my journey. And it is thanks to that experience that I did not choose. And it was extremely painful because it was his decision to walk out of the marriage without giving me any special reason for doing that and it was the famous out of the blue moment for me after I graduated from my PhD I got a degree actually it was it was a shock it was traumatic. It happened one in in in Australia. So that was definitely something difficult to to face. And that

was another level at which life invited me to explore myself. So the first first step was meeting diversity and meeting all these different cultures in Hong Kong and then in Sydney and in Australia and traveling around. And this was the real second deeper step where it forced me and it invited me actually to really explore who am I now? Because when this happened and it exploded in my life, it was something I didn't want. And the question was, OK, now who am I? Because before I did, I found myself, as I said before, in diversity in a certain form. I was married.

I was a married woman traveling the world with my husband, building my career. And I had a future and I had a vision. I wanted a family. And suddenly all of this disappears. And it happened suddenly, I said. And therefore I had no new image of what my future could look like, of who could I be then in the future if I'm not a married woman that will have kids. Because for me at that moment that was done

that that that future that vision that image of it was gone and so i had to patiently um discover i accepted this invitation from life again and i started my journey of discovery okay who are you who can you be what are parts of yourself that you have not discovered yet? And that this situation has invited you to discover and to bring forward. What are you, what is actually your own dream? What can you imagine for yourself? What do you want to do? And how can you build that?

So those questions were questions that I had to address willingly or not those are all good those are all good questions I think we all should address married or not but did you find that the conditions around the world because I know you went to many many places not just Australia and um and Hong Kong but did you find that the conditions were pretty much worldly as in you know women you know being the mother staying home having like that just typical sitcom sitcom family yeah um thank you for the question actually that was it made very clear how the tradition I was coming from and biases at that as a woman I had lived within without even knowing it they were responsible of of the idea I've had that

was the life in the future that I've seen developed from so many people and experiences. So I never thought of anything that could be completely different than it is as my life ended up being. And so I realized and that that's again a great insight that I found out thanks to that experience. But I realized how this culture, or at least my culture, where I was coming from and who I was, was very much determined by this view of a woman and a family of a certain kind. In China, for example, it's a little bit different

because women do want to get married and get kids before 30 because that's what society invites them to do. At the same time, there is a stronger sense of career than, for example, where I was coming from. That was not just career, career and being successful and making money. It was more the value of the family and having kids and everything so China I from my experience was a little bit different in this sense right so there was perhaps a little bit more focus on the career but at the same time you need to cover the being married and having kids right so in Australia I would say the steel family woman married with kids is very strong. It is very strong. And then we have Europe, very traditional in January. This is from my experience, right? And then the US, perhaps my experience showed me there are, there is the most variety of format. For me, I had, and I still am doing the work of actually opening up and see that there are so many different ways in which a woman can actually be empowered and living her purpose. That it is not the one of just being a mother just because

we can be mothers, although not everybody can, but at least physically we have the chance to become a mother. That doesn't mean that this defines us. And this is something that I had to start thinking anew because my culture, where I was brought up, the way I was brought up, it was never a question, right? And so that is quite interesting because I believe that today, many women, not all the women, of course, but many women do not realize, as it was for me then, that there are other options and that there are other ways in which a woman can fulfill herself, not necessarily by being a mother biologically, for example. And I'm thinking of women that for some medical reasons, they cannot have kids. And sometimes they suffer too much for this because it seems like the purpose of a woman is to be a mother. And if you're not a mother, you are not a full woman. Right. It is very powerful that and I had to learn it for myself.

And I think that it is liberating to start thinking that there are many ways in which a woman is fully a woman and for example, not necessarily if you don't have kids, it doesn't mean that you are a lesser woman. Whereas the risk might be that women, we think that that's too important for the identity of a woman, right? And I would like to say that it is very important and it is not because there are also many other ways in which we can fulfill our call,

who we are and what we want to be and the contribution we want to make in the world, even if we are not mothers biologically, at least. I don't know what your view on that is. I feel like I've lived on both ends now I spent the beginning of my life much like you watching generations of mothers you know being mothers very very much mothers and that's all you are and so that's what I was and I have two generations of kids into you know I have kids from 24 to nine.

So now that, I mean, sense of soul is really the first thing I had for myself. I mean, even with my other jobs, I mean, it was always revolved around my children, period. You know, I only worked on these days. I only worked at this time, period, for my children, period. You know, I only worked on these days. I only worked at this time, period, for my children. And then, or I only worked for even my father for years and years because I could bring my children with me. So it still was about the children, right? It still was about the mother.

It was priority. Now I have a sense of soul and I am as passionate about it. And one of the things that I discovered in this journey, finding my sense of soul is that I wasn't just a mother and I wasn't just a wife or a daughter or, you know, a friend. I was more than that. And, um, and this was all within myself. It had nothing to do actually without, you know, outside of me, even my children. And so now I'm pushing back on what I was for so long because now they're looking at me like, what?

You can do these things for yourself, right? Like you can do this and it's okay that I have something for myself. I should, as you should, as you should. I think that what you're saying is so, I am totally with you, totally with you. And I think that a great contribution for women and really to reconnect with the soul, with the core, with our deepest nature, which is so much more. Yes, being mothers is important. And there is so much, much more about us that we can express and that we can show. And it doesn't need to be all encompassing being a mother. Of course, when you have kids and you know better than I do,

you do need to devote a lot of attention to them because they need, they are new creature and that's fine. And I think that we don't want to forget that we are much more than that as women. I found recently I was having a conversation with a very large man, like he's very manly. He's like six, eight, just this big human. And I was talking to him one day when I was picking up my daughter from school. And I said, how are you? And he asked me, you know, how I am and what I do. And I asked him, what do you do? He does. And his head kind of just dropped. And he said, I'm a stay at home dad. And I could tell that he had

some shame around it. And it even kind of caught me off guard because automatically the way I've been conditioned, I thought, oh, well, that's so odd. And so then I kind of jumped into conversation with him and he said, he feels like he's judged for it. And he also said, sometimes he judges himself for it. And then I was talking to a dentist yesterday that I went to, who just opened up to her own practice. And she was getting together with some women in the neighborhood. And they said to her, your husband makes very good money because they live in a mansion. They said, why would you choose to not be home with your children and to work? And she said, she was completely taken back by it. So you can see

in both of those examples, these conditions, but I do see that it's shifting yeah yeah and i so much agree with you and particularly going back to this this man i think that also the tradition has constrained men and their identity has reduced it actually actually. It is too narrow. And also for men, they need the opportunity to expand beyond the tradition, beyond the tradition. And they are also not, they don't know how to do it. I am sure many men don't know how to do it, as many women don't know how to do it. And that's the beauty of it.

If we can collaborate and have a conversation about this tradition and these conditions and the way we are used to think about men, women and the role in society, I think we need to liberate. There is a need from people to actually express themselves. And there is a willingness also to discover more about who am I. And there is a lot of experimenting. There is a lot of, in my opinion, a desire to authentically express what I am experiencing about myself. And even if I don't know what that exactly is, it is an expression of the need of actually

expressing myself and the feeling of being constrained and some identities, realities, society, culture that I don't feel like they represent me because they have been narrowed down too much. There is now collectively, it seems to me at least, the desire to actually break free at some level right and so i think that the also this uh becoming very sensitive to diversity is an opportunity to actually go ahead and express yourself maybe you are not a black man or a black woman but you have always hidden parts of yourself that you didn't feel free to express and now now the fact that, for example, Me Too movement or Black Lives Matter, all these start to open up, then, okay, it gives courage to, okay, let me make one step towards expressing something that, because of my tradition, has never been permitted. So let me tiptoeing into expressing it. I think that there

is a need of being seen. I used to go into prisons with young teens and host AA meetings. And I can remember a lot of them basically saying that they joined gangs or chose to be gang, gang affiliates, because that was how they were choosing to express themselves so that they could be seen. It came down to exactly what you just said. They were trying to be seen. And that's just happens to be the path that they chose because they weren't being seen by their parents. They hadn't been seen by society correctly. And they weren't willing to fall into how the other teenagers were acting to be seen. And they didn't know where to fall. And that just happened to be where they did. So you're, you know, it really does, it comes down to a lot of

ways we choose to express ourselves is to be seen. And I think it was Camus that was saying that until somebody sees us, we do not exist. You guys would love this. There's this book that I got for my daughter. It's called Mommy and Me. It's like an art book and you do it together. So she gets to draw on one side, I get to draw on the other.

And there's these challenging questions that makes you look at and like drawing your emotions or looking at the positive things about yourself, the negative things about yourself. It's just really been amazing and really helpful for her and I. And one of the things last night, what is something that you're proud of yourself about? Like, how would you give yourself an award? Is it that you're good at this or this? And it was going through all these examples, but it also used being empathetic as something good about you. A daughter is quiet. You know, I taught, this has been heavy on my

heart over the past month. So I talked about this a lot in my podcast, but so what right but people want to pull her out pull her out they see being outgoing as such a positive thing and being quiet not a good thing yeah yeah we do need to give ourselves permission to be yeah and so if she's quiet finding value and being quiet and not comparing with being outgoing but just actually just slow down and in order to appreciate a person that is quiet you need to be refined in the way you are sensitive and you perceive the other person you need to be sophisticated in a way you are able to pay attention to certain details to to certain way of being of the other person so of course being quiet sometimes is more challenging than for others outgoing there is a lot of noise right and so you can be hiding yourself but when a quiet person is

there it calls you out and so being a quiet person as it been outgoing we are different but being a quiet person, as it has been outgoing, we are different, but being a quiet person, it is demanding also for other people because somehow it calls you on your authenticity. I think, right? It calls other people out. And so an intense way of being that the person who is quiet needs to learn to express and to manage also other people around because they might feel uncomfortable. They don't know how to feel themselves. Right. So true. Yeah, because a quiet person or an introvert, whatever you want to call them, creates the space. Right. That can be uncomfortable for someone who is not. Yeah, that's for sure. That's, that's amazing. It's so true. Hey, Sense of Soul listeners, sorry for the interruption,

but we have some exciting news to share. Shanna and I have decided to offer an affiliates page on our website to our guests that we have had on. Then it makes it easy for you, our listeners, to find programs and professionals that align with you. Yes, it's so easy. Just go to our website, mysenseofsoul.com, and on our homepage, click the Network of Lightworkers Affiliates. Then scroll and simply click on your favorite guest. From there, use the code under the guest that they have made particular to them and sign up or simply tell them that Census Soul has sent you. We have been so excited to announce our new ongoing partnerships with some of our amazing guests. Census Soul, Shannon and I

will earn a commission for our endorsement and recommendation to their product or their service from this affiliates page. Your purchase will help support Sense of Soul in our purpose, bringing amazing episodes twice a week to our listeners all around the world. We want to take this opportunity to thank you, our participating affiliates and listeners for your support. Oh, and don't forget that we have a Patreon. Patreon is a platform where we have special exclusive content for your support. Oh, and don't forget that we have a Patreon. Patreon is a platform where we have special exclusive content for Patreon members. Just download the free Patreon app and search Sense of Soul. Then pick your tier that resonates best with you. Unlocking exclusive content like Mandy and I's exclusive mini series only on Patreon,

our monthly Sense of soul sacred circles. Patreon also has exclusive merch. We have polls on fun topics, bloopers, workshops, and even early releases of episodes. It is also an amazing way to build our community and interact intimately with our listeners. Check it out. We love and appreciate you all so much. Now back to our amazing guest. You talk a lot about conscious leadership. Would you say that what Shanna did with this coloring book and what this journal, this art journal has done and creates with her and her daughter can be considered conscious leadership as a mother within her home. And as your career and what you do, I know you kind of

take it more on a career level, but can this conscious leadership happen at home as a mom, as a wife, as a friend, as a daughter, as a boss, as an employee, where does this conscious leadership happen at home, as a mom, as a wife, as a friend, as a daughter, as a boss, as an employee? Where does this conscious leadership fit in? Actually, thank you for pointing this out. Conscious leaders and conscious leadership, I consider it yes in business and at the same time in life. Because to me, we do all have the potential to be conscious leader

and we want to be conscious leader in our life, in what we do at home, if we are, as we said before, stay-at-home mom or dad, or we have a family life and we have put our career on hold or something like that. For me, being a conscious leader means to have developed that ability to, first of all, within yourself, to be able to notice what's going on around you. Well, what's going on in you, first of all, and be able to manage and evolve in yourself. And then being aware and conscious about the different kind of people you are interacting

with what is their mood what are they showing up with what do they bring to the table what do they bring to the conversation how can you appreciate them how can you enhance who they are and being aware that to be a conscious leader you want to be able to see, perceive, notice, sense all that is going on around you and act accordingly with integrity towards your value and also respecting, because you have seen it, the values of other people and trying to bring their talent and what they can contribute out there in the open and have it serve the community, the family, the business, the organization, no matter where you are. So for me, leadership is a matter, first of all, of self-leadership.

And by managing yourself and learning about yourself and doing the inner work of leadership, then you can move on to become a conscious leader in the way I've said, which has nothing to do per se, in my perspective, in my view, with being a leader in an organization. But you can be a leader at home within your family, with your extended family, in the school of your kids, in any environment. That is the quality of leadership I'm talking about, that is based on the quality of leadership I'm talking about that is based on the quality of humanness. Thank you for stating that.

I don't think people ever think of leadership as self-leadership. They never think of it as, you know, leading yourself. And that's what's most important. Yeah, we need to start from there. Being a leader is influencing others, but not because you push them to do something, but because people want to be part of your world and want to follow you as a role model, as an example. Tell me, if we had more leaders around and take the

concept of leadership as it is well developed in organization and take it into life then we can really make a difference wherever we are because we start to look at each other as leaders in the sense that we can make it and we can have an impact we can contribute we can actually make a difference wherever you are but to do that we need to do our inner work the inner work of leadership. You know, it's so funny because that word leader just sometimes sounds like, especially lately when it comes to like political leaders and stuff, it sounds almost ugly to me because it's always about like, look at me, look what I've done.

Look how good I've done. Follow me because I do good. I do good. I do good. And it's really in everyone's perception and in their own experiences how they look and see the world. Yes. to evolve myself as a person, as a contributor to society, to the world, are actually those individuals that make a big difference for people. I'm thinking in this moment, Martin Luther King, Jr. But also there are now, and I'm so happy about it, interesting stories of women. I'm passionate about the story. I think we need, we women, we do need women role models and they have not been as visible.

And I think that what's happening now, we, they become more visible and it, it feels good to have role models that are women that we can follow and they have integrity. One of mine is, is my cabrini. Wow.

She's Italian. Yeah yeah do you know her story no i i'd love to share because i feel like she is one of those people that we should know um especially here in america she was sent over in the late 1800s because yellow fever. And there was a large portion of Italians, especially in New Orleans, that was where they first came, and New York. And so the Pope sent them over because the children, their parents were dying, kind of like much like COVID, where the kids didn't get it. It was really the adults. So he sent her over here and she was one of 11 and most of them were very ill in her family. And she was very little tiny lady and she was not always healthy herself, you know, had fought a lot of diseases and stuff. So she comes here and she went to New Orleans and she opened

up an orphanage, which is still there. And there's a high school there. You can actually visit like her room, her Bible. They still kept everything sacred. But then she went from New Orleans to all over the United States. Even here in Colorado, we have a statue and a church that honors her because she went all the way to California. We're talking in the early 1900s, this little lady, one lady, and opened up schools and orphanages all over, made it all the way back to Chicago, where she is Cantonized. You can actually see her body, but she died. I think around in her sixties, but this little lady, one lady needs such a difference.

And she also, I believe started the sake, the sacred heart. The men's okay. And so she had all of these ideas of what she wanted them to do and the sisters then carried that board she her dream was to then go to africa but one woman you know and we're not talking like on an airplane or even on a horse no you know maybe on terrain you know maybe untrained you know i mean little resources just one person can make such a difference yeah you are so right and i think it is for so powerful to be remembered is that we remember that allow me to say it is within human beings so within men as well. Allow me to just point out it about women right now. But there is a richness of resources that we are.

Not only we have, that if we only learn to tap into those resources, recognize them first, give ourselves permission to express them and give voice to that, we can really make a difference and we can really change because that's who we are. And there is so much goodness and beauty in everybody, men, women, all kinds of people. What we have not learned to do enough, I think, is to actually recognize those resources, use them and express them to serve others and not only ourselves. I think that that's a skill that we want to get back on and learn how to do that. It is too powerful to miss over this. You know, unfortunately, most of the women that were role models were role models for their looks

when I was growing up. And I find that my daughters look up to women as role models who are also famous for their looks or their fashion or all of the above. And that's sad. I can remember Madonna. She actually had a song called Express Yourself. And it was about women stepping out and learning to express themselves. And she was truly one of my idols. I mean, she was not afraid to express herself physically, sexually. She was

doing things way before our time as far as expressing her love for interracial relationships, bisexual relationships. I mean, that woman really expressed herself and she was really either loved for it or judged for it. I don't know where I sit with the fact that that was my idol from age 10 all the way into my 20s. But there was something to be said about Madonna breaking out and saying, women, express yourself.

Yes, it is true that a lot of teenage girls now choose role models that have to do with their look. And I think that that's, from one side, that's okay, because people, women that are good looking, they are showing off their beauty, and that's fine fine I think that what's missing is the part of women that don't think they are as good-looking because there are so many good-looking women right that that that part needs to become more visible and make the effort to break through and say you know what yes I'm not perfect I do have few pounds more my nose is not perfect I do have some lines and all these kind of things and I do have something to say and I do have few pounds more. My nose is not perfect. I do have some lines and all these kind of things. And I do have something to say and I do have something to give.

So let me step up. And I think that this is the part that is we need to learn to do. I am learning to do it. Everybody that I know is making an effort. Many women are. I think we need to get better at that. Well, see, don't you feel like if we knew that we had more than a meat suit right here that maybe we would you know even understand to connect on that level that's why i said i think it's so important

that we're teaching the anatomy of spirit because that will help people understand that, yeah, sure, your body may be beautiful, but you are much more than this body. Yeah. Yes. And in fact, the work I'm most passionate about, I use a metaphor to describe it. I think you will appreciate it. And what I think everybody should do, right? Let's think about for a moment a watch a beautiful watch I like Pate Philippe so I use that always and they have a glass and it is a see-through and the see-through when you look into that you see all the engines all the tiny little parts that constitute the watch you see the little pieces that are combined together the the circle one that work together,

the engines, and they are very beautiful, clean, the movement is smooth, and you can distinguish each part. So this is the work we want to be able to do, distinguish all the engines that constitute our inner side, as you said, from the soul up. And if there are pieces that are a little bit, they need to be updated or they need to be dusted or they are a little bit rusty and we need to clean them, we want to do that so our inner movement is smooth and then we have the freedom to let things flow. And we do not have to pay too much attention once we have done this work

to ourselves and we can contribute because our inner engine is working so well and so powerfully. Yes, we need to take care of the fact that it continues to do that. But once that's done, then we have no problem in expressing ourselves because the inside makes us feel beautiful. The confidence is high. We know that we have something to say and to give and we do it so i just to give a metaphor of what we are talking about self-love it's what nancy and i feel like is the key to everything is finding that love you know to take care of yourself to keep those gears moving yes yes yes you, a lot of people, including myself, until I got sober and really did the work, didn't understand what the word integrity means.

I have my own little definition, but I'm, I'm curious if you were to define the word integrity, how would you define it? For me, integrity has to do with be faithful to yourself and what you know you are standing for. So for the level of knowledge I have of who I am and what I value and what I stand for, I act and behave accordingly so that I am aligned with those values and what I believe in. So integrity does have to do with authenticity, in my opinion, and it has to do with do I know myself enough? And for the level of knowledge I have on myself, am I aligned? Do I behave according to what I think is important for me in my life and the people I care? That's level one. It doesn't have to do with what I do is right and there is this way of doing this and your way, you're not right. It really integrity has to do with me and myself and my value

and what I decide to stand for. I love that you said, how well do I know myself? Because if you don't take the time to get to really know yourself, then you really don't know what your true values and morals are. So then you cannot possibly have that true integrity. So I love that. And allow me to add, though, that integrity doesn't mean that I have a fixed identity that I need always to conform to. But in time, I am constantly aligned with myself and who I am and what I believe in can change. But is the alignment to what I believe that makes me live in integrity. So I don't want to suggest

that there is one way of being and that's it. And if you're not that you're not an integrity. And I noticed in your I think it was the bio, the email that we got that one of the topics that you talk about is self evolution. And is that what you mean? Yes, self evolutionolution because there is so much that we do not know about who we are the life we have is the time we have to explore and find out and not even everything right and so that's exactly what i mean we want to continue evolving the discovery and in in expanding what we know and what we feel about ourselves how we perceive ourselves how we see ourselves and it is a constant work in progress and it is at the same time whole in every moment so there is wholeness and there is expansion in every moment and it is a work in progress at the

same time because otherwise you're just stagnant and evolving. And I believe that the whole point is to evolve. Yes, yes. And the more we evolve, the more we can encompass other reality, other people, welcome diversity, and we can choose to integrate what's different in who we are in our life, or we can just choose to see and appreciate it. And then we choose differently for ourselves. So I think that integrity has been a hard thing for the world for generations, trying to fit into the box rather than, you know, accepting themselves, you know, trying to follow the rules of religions and of, you know, society. And so, you know, I've been, we've been hearing this word a lot, you know, in the past years, and I think it's a beautiful thing.

I mean, like, I truly want to be as genuine and aligned as I can. It's not even for anybody else or anything other than I know that my life goes a lot smoother when I am. There's no resistance. And I think that part of living in integrity is also the respect of what is different. Because I know myself and I know the level of knowledge of myself that I have now and my values and I am aligned with that in order to constantly be in this integrity within myself and at the same time in the authenticity is also for me to recognize that maybe you have different values and you nonetheless are living in integrity with yourself and that doesn't mean however that we need to fight or be in conflict with each other right there is a respect that i can have towards you and not

necessarily feeling the the need that you are like me and that you need to conform with me right and sometimes allowing for diversity to be is difficult. It is challenging because it gives you power. If I allow myself to be and I allow you to be, I do need to feel very comfortable in myself in order to be next to you who are different. And instead of wanting you to conform to me so I'm fine, if I compare, okay, she thinks, let me, that's okay. I don't know if you understand what

I mean it is a level of self-confidence that in my opinion is very important and healthy to have when we are next to what is different when we have role models at the top of the top that lack integrity how do we as a society live within that space when we can't even trust the people that control our country? To me, that's when it becomes extremely important that I have developed an ability to actually think what's right and what is valuable for me. And even if you are a leader of a country or of a nation, and you are not expressing the value or the ethics, as I mean, this moment, I think about it, I don't take you as a role model to follow. But I take you as a model that helps me to distinguish what is actually important to me and what I'm not accepting. So I think that trust in the political leaders or not is something that I don't give away.

It is something that needs to be cherished and earned. And I trust you as a political leader, not because you are on the top. I trust you. That political leader, not because you are on the top. I trust you. That's my position, right? I trust you because you are actually showing me that what, in my case, as a person, are valued to me and it is valuable, you are actually representing. I'm not following you just because you have been elected and you have won. I don't know. For me, it is more important that right now we need really a top quality of humanness

and not a performer of some sort of political leadership, if it makes sense. Especially now because so much has changed. We are still, situation is unsure. It is unclear where we are going. Countries suddenly have become localized and the globalization, it seems like, has completely changed, right? So even people at the top, it is not taken for granted that people follow them. There are influencers now, there are people that have a say that are not in traditional roles. So I think that more now than ever, we need to have quality people

in position of power and actual leaders, because we really follow the person and we use a person as a role model. If the person has nothing to say and it is unethical and it is the ego still playing out I don't I don't follow you even if you are your life and the election put you on top my role models in my book I do speak about role models and me, role models are those people I can sit on the shoulder of, as Nietzsche would say, and they help me to see further beyond me and believe in something that is greater and it is aligned with me. because sometimes I cannot see beyond. In my case, when I was going through divorce and it was a traumatic experience, I love to think about Nelson Mandela that had to spend 27 years in prison

and he could not express fully according to my perspective. But then in fact, he did. I found role models in people that survived concentration camp situation. They showed me that bad and very difficult situation can be overcome i love tick knock line he's my role model i love his teachings yes we we choose people that actually expand expand our awareness yes yeah that's that's that's the role model that's people i want to listen to

i seriously can't listen to any of the others i seriously can't it's like wow it hurts my ears so barbara let's talk about your book what was your hope in writing this book when i was going through my experience that it was very difficult and very painful. I have always loved book but I couldn't find any story at the time and anybody that could tell me that the story will end well and that there was a hope and then even if the pain at the moment seemed unbearable and the situation seemed that it had no hope but no end i wanted somebody to tell me barbara you're going to be all right i was there you'll be all right and i couldn't find it and so i decided that i wanted to be that person from the future speaking to people that go through difficult moments like that.

And I wanted to tell them my story and share how I went through it and what I was able to achieve. The title of the book is The Unexpected Gift, actually. So I didn't achieve anything. I was gifted a lot. I was gifted a lot. So this was one reason why I decided to write it and and another reason is because when I was going through that I realized that pain it gives you kind of x-ray so I was able somehow to have insights on again human beings life how we can become better people and how we can be different in our life that without that pain, I would have never realized. And so there were moments of such clarity and the transparency that I could see things through. It was amazing. And so I decided to write those moments down. And eventually I put them together in the book. You know, I will say that we had on Eben Alexander, who wrote a book that was placed in my hands when I was newly out of a coma in ICU. And that book was a gift to me, because I

didn't feel so alone in my pain and in my experience. It's so powerful that just a book of someone expressing that they've been where you're at. So thank you for sharing your raw experience. Do you say pain is x-ray? Yes. I love that. It's like an x-ray. It's transparent. It made you go look within.

I'm going to write that on a piece of paper I love that I I'm thinking of like this x-ray I had this visual pain helps us see through within reality and within within relationship and within people because the majority of us we are used to think that we want to avoid pain I'm not saying that we want to look for pain, but I'm saying that when life throws you in situations that are painful, and that's what I did, you can actually leverage that pain and make it an X-ray on your self-reality and have a kind of a blessing in that moment

to see through more than you will ever be able to. I have such a different relationship with pain. And I don't know if it's just something like, once you awaken to it, that, you know, it changes something within you. But soon as pain comes around, you might feel it. I'm like, Oh, hello. Hello, pain. What do we need? What are we lacking in our lives? Where am I not giving to myself where I should be? You know, whether it's water or just space. It's just a messenger. It is an x-ray.

I love that. Thank you. That's such a great message. Thank you. This is a great conversation. I believe in the generative power of having conversation because everybody brings something and something else comes out of it. Yeah, that's really what I felt when I first was kind of reading over your bio and what your book

was about. I really felt that you understand and try to create understanding around how important it is to communicate and to have that interpersonal communication. Am I correct? I mean, I feel like communication is where it's at. That's how we evolve and learn. Yes, I understand what you mean. And yes, at the same time, I would say more than communication is relationship. Communication is part of it it but we are used to the word communication and we think maybe what you say and what I understand whereas the relationship yes you have communication you have sensing you have feeling you have experiencing so yes all I do it is how do we connect? How do we connect

at a deeper level? And how do we build ourself and our life around that connection that we choose the quality of? Well, and I think when you said that, I went back to Shanna's daughter. She teaches people that communication doesn't mean coming from your mouth with words. You can communicate with people with your energy, with just sitting in stillness next to each other. You can connect by simply just being present with each other. So our society just needs to learn that what you said, Barbara, feel, you know, feel each other, connect.

Experience. That's the journey, right? You evolve and you're expanding and understanding is expanding. And, but yeah, experience. Barbara, we label everything with our minds. We're in, instead of just being there and experiencing it, we always have to label it. Communication. It doesn't always have to be words. You're right, Mandy.

Perfect example is that book that Kenzie and I do where it's just art, you know, so it could be so many beautiful things. We have to meet people where they're at too. Not everybody has the level of communication. I mean, I don't, I definitely, I have had issues with talking my whole life. So this has been a huge journey for me, the podcast, you know, and also being vulnerable and all that. And it's taught me so much, but I had to go through the experience and the connection,

connecting with people. That's what really motivated me, my soul. Connection. Oh, interesting. Connection. Interesting. Connection. So Barbara in Alcoholics Anonymous, I always I've said this a million times, but they say that they're grateful alcoholics. And at first, I wanted to punch them in the face because I'm like, that doesn't make sense to me. Are you in a place now where you can look back at your story and that pain and say that you're grateful for it? So I tell you, Mandy, when people dare to tell me during my journey, well, you'll be happy that this happened.

You will be grateful for it. I would look at them and first I wanted to punch them at first. And I said, and I used to say, I don't think so. I don't think so. I still don't conform to that statement. So I'm not grateful that that happened because this is not what I wanted for my life and I did not choose it. What I'm grateful for is that the way I chose to respond to the situation taught me a lot, many lessons. For those lessons, I'm grateful for. But there is a distinction. I would have been grateful of the lessons I would have even in that relationship and in that story. So I'm not grateful that this happened because it is not what I wanted. Now I'm grateful

for what I've learned out of it. But there is a distinction. I understand that. Yeah. The blessing in the lesson, like Mandy always says. Yeah. It's been such a blessing. I just enjoyed this conversation.'re you're so positive wise and have a just sweet energy and now it's time for break that shit down i would like to say that doesn't matter how life looks like and doesn't matter what is actually happening. I would like to invite all your listeners. I do. I invite myself every day to believe that there is always, always goodness going on already. And there is always a gift on its way to us and our lives and if we don't see it it's just because we are not sophisticated enough to recognize it but it is already on our way

and it is always something positive that shows up and so this has been my experience and that's the unexpected gift I'm talking about so I invite everybody to pay attention to the tiniest little things because that might be the gift that is on its way. The gift. I love that. Where can our listeners find your book and where can they learn more about you? The book is on Amazon and it is called The Unexpected Gift, Emerging Anew After The Unthinkable. And you can find me on my website, which is my name, barbara.lepetza.com or on LinkedIn. I am moving through Instagram, learning how to do that. I would just like to say that I am so in love with the meaning of your last name. And I think that we should end today on that note.

You know what, people? We are all made from different fabric. It feels different. It looks different. It has different colors. All the way in our lineage and our ancestors and our experiences. So remember that, that all of us come from different fabric. And all the fabric is beautiful

all of it that's the best best interpretation of my name that I've ever had and I will use it after years of thinking that it is horrible and I didn't want to say no I thought of a quilt Shanna does quilts if you took a little you know, square of the fabric that we've all been born from, it would be the most beautiful quilt. Like the ones that you just throw together that make no sense are the most beautiful quilts, right? Yes. Thank you so much for this image. I will really carry with me from this moment on. I feel like I connected with you today and with your story. So thank you for sharing and for coming on Sense of Soul. Thank you so much for having me, ladies. It was really great. I really enjoyed it. And yes, let's connect

again. Thanks for being with us today. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like and subscribe. Thank you. We hope you will come back next week. If you like what you hear, don't forget to rate, like, and subscribe. Thank you. We rise to lift you up. Thanks for listening.