Sense of Soul - Soil and Spirit - Planetary Transformation

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

Happy Earth week! Today on Sense of Soul we have Ian C. Williams he is an author, speaker, and business advisor. He has a Master’s in Public Affairs (MPA) with an emphasis in Leadership Strategy and Organizational Culture from the University of Minnesota. His background in education, mindfulness, and regenerative design informs his business advising. He works primarily with mission driven organizations to help them grow healthy cultures through process optimization, wellbeing integration, and environmental restoration. He dedicates himself to humanitarian and environmental endeavors to generate systemic change for the common good.   It's no secret: monumental challenges threaten the sixth mass extinction on planet Earth. From increasing rates of infertility and chronic disease, to soil degradation and climate collapse, reviving civilization requires changemakers to step forward and lead with their own unique genius.   He joins us today to tell us about his book Soil and Spirit Seeds of Purpose, Nature's Insight & the Deep Work of Transformational Change. Where Ian Williams presents a simple solution: self-actualization. Solutions at scale begin with individuals organizing themselves. Ian guides the reader through that process via four primary landscapes: internal, social, external, and spiritual. These landscapes chart the path from personal to planetary transformation. Soil & Spirit is not only a message, but a methodology for designing resilient landscapes, both inside and out.   Learn more about Ian C. Williams: https://www.reviveuandi.com Follow his journey @reviveuandi Visit Sense of Soul at www.mysenseofsoul.com Do you want Ad Free episodes? Join our Sense of Soul Patreon, our community of seekers and lightworkers. Also recieve 50% off of Shanna’s Soul Immersion experience as a Patreon member, monthly Sacred circles, Shanna mini series, Sense of Soul merch and more. https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul Follow Sense of Soul Podcast on Social Media: https://www.facebook.com/SenseofSoulSOS  

Hello, my soul-seeking friends. It's Shanna. Thank you so much for listening to Sense of Soul podcast. Enlightening conversations with like-minded souls from around the world, sharing their journey of finding their light within, turning pain into purpose, and awakening to their true sense of soul. If you like what you hear, show me some love and rate, like, and subscribe. And consider becoming a Sense of Soul Patreon member, where you will get ad-free episodes, monthly circles, and much more. Now go grab your coffee, open your mind, heart, and soul. It's time to awaken. Today we have with us author and consultant Ian C. Williams. He is an educator-turned-speaker, business advisor, and personal transformation expert.

His essential practices build the crucial bridge between personal insight, organizational development, and planetary transformation. Ian's work is not only a message, but a methodology for designing resilient landscapes, both inside and out. He's joining us today to tell us about his new book, Soil and Spirit, Seeds of Purpose, Nature's Insight in Deep Work of Transformational Change. So welcome Anne on Sense of Soul Podcast. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. How you been? Living the dream, doing well. Nice.

Thank you so much for coming on. I was reading some of your book this morning, looking at your website too, you know, and I have found this as well, that oftentimes, like maybe a method that we have discovered works for us in our life actually can roll over into all of our life, you know, into our work, into our friendships, our relationships, into the world, right? I always see this like in a larger perspective, you know, like you heal yourself. In turn, this heals your family, your lineages, mother earth. From a theory of change perspective, though, you're right on, right?

The book is about that kind of inward to outward process of transformation. We take a similar approach with our work with organizations, too. And I use we because it is actually we. It's more than just me. Working with organizations to build capacity. We're doing that in a couple different ways. One is kind of a three-pronged approach. The first is what we call process optimization. So just focusing on business processes and infrastructure, right? Organizational development type work. For those of us that abandon the

working world, I'm sure we've all had that experience of what it's like to be in an organization that's not fully optimized, that feels a little clunky or redundant, or there's just friction or tension for whatever reasons, whether it's business processes or people. So we like to focus on that first to create a little bit of bandwidth to have a more authentic, sustainable conversation about phase two, which is employee well-being and engagement. So business process first, not always, but usually people second, because those are two sides of the same coin, right? And we don't have our own definition of what wellbeing looks like. We are working with a systematic process

that allows these organizations to essentially design their own wellbeing programs. And we're just facilitating that process and then helping the organization and leadership integrate it into the day-to-day or week-to-week or month-to-month, whatever it looks like. And then the third prong is social and environmental impact. So again, really building this organization from the inside out, strengthening those roots. And if we can do those first two things effectively, what we've learned is that it makes for, again, much more bandwidth and a more sustainable conversation around what do we want the impact of this organization to be outside the walls, right? Beyond the widgets that they sell, the service that they offer. We're using the exact same systematic process to design.

We're just switching out the content, right? Figuring out, doing a lot of qualitative discovery and analysis. What's important to the people within this organization? Because if we can figure that out, it's going to make it a lot easier to make those programs sustainable and long lasting. And then again, working with leadership in the organization to implement those programs over time. The idea being if we can strengthen the business itself, the people within the business and the impact that business is having, we can really increase the capacity and the reach and the positive impact of the organization itself. You said that very well. That's what I meant earlier in so many words, but it's true. It's like, it does have this domino effect. And I see that.

And I feel like a lot of businesses, a lot of companies, even the spa that I work for and my clients that I have, I've been hearing this so much that this more conscious corporate world, there's a lot more conscious people. And they are caring about the well-being of their employees. They're caring about what's behind the products. And that really makes a difference for a consumer like me. I have a client who's in the tech business, tech, that doesn't interest me at all. However, I am fascinated by the things that he talks about when it comes to how he feels like his employees need to be cared for they're doing like a mindfulness like every so often or whatever and i think that that's amazing so it's the creativity and coming up with a way to have the employees not lose their shit so that they will

produce more for you really truly and everyone's happy And the data at this point, I mean, that's, I think the beauty of where we're at, the whole employee wellbeing conversation has been around long enough to get a little bit of data behind it and science behind it. I mean, it's a no brainer, right? If you take care of your people, it's better for the business. Fortunately, that conversation has really opened up recently. And it's not only are you getting to the gym and are you eating healthy, like those kind of gimmicky health programs, but more so like, let's support the whole person. And what does that look like? It's one thing that I've been optimistic and positive about over the last couple of years, because since COVID, George Floyd,

it's really shifted the conversation about what is employee well-being, what is the responsibility of the organization to support the individuals within the organization. So yeah, it's interesting that you say the tech doesn't interest you because that's actually one place that we try and focus our work because of the innovation that can happen there at scale. We're passionate about climate change. And so it's going to be a lot of these innovative technologies that we're going to implement at scale that are going to allow us to really address the climate crisis at the level that we need to. But at the same time, right, you need the people be with you along the way. And the people are what make it possible in the first place, right? Like, let's not ever forget that. And so, but it's always interesting to see how,

you know, different people interact and what motivates you doesn't motivate me and vice versa. Yeah. But you know, he's one of my most favorite clients. I mean, this guy's energy is insane, but you know, you get a few good people like that in your business. Overall, his energy is going to change because he's going to fight for stuff like that for you. And even just my boss, she has, you know, she doesn't have a lot of overalls energy is going to change because he's going to fight for stuff like that for you. And even just my boss, she has, you know, she doesn't have a lot of turnaround when it comes to employees. She's had to say, I've been there for, since it opened. And, you know, that says a lot for a company, which doesn't happen so often anymore. Like back in the day generations, they were staying their whole lives at a company.

I think it's probably because, you know, the younger generations are a little bit more creative and they're free. They're less conditioned. So they find it easy. Well, I'm not happy. I'm going to go find another job. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, one thing that we talk about a lot in our work is there are leaders in positions of power, but there are leaders of culture. And oftentimes those two are not the same within an organization. They don't like to let go either. Some of those older generations. So it's interesting, you know, it's interesting to explore that dynamic. And for those organizations that are able to leverage their leaders of culture, I shouldn't use the term leverage because that implies usury relationship, right? Yeah. That's great. Then that would be a really solid foundation for a company.

If they could, if they could understand each other and work together, you know, I think I talked about this book more than any book I've ever talked about because it was such an impact. I would definitely recommend it. It's called Generation We. Okay. She's a social scientist where she did studies on the different generations. And her findings were incredible and shocking, but yet made so much sense. Because, of course, you know, we're all different because of, you know, what we grew up in, what we saw, how the economy was at the time. And she wrote the book for the older generations to understand Gen Z, because that's what she found in the end, that these older generations needed to understand the younger generations and vice versa. You know, I think we toss it around a lot, this notion that, right, the younger generations are going to be inheriting the world. And what does that mean? And it's easy to think

about that from a oversimplified perspective, right? That almost like there's a day that the baton handoff happens. And the reality is we're all living in this world together and absolutely the younger generations are going to be the one that inherit it at the same time it's the facilitation of creating a safe space for everyone to come to the table at the same time right and everyone to share those diverse perspectives, because for those of us that, you know, I think grew up with older people in our lives who we could look up to, right. Recognize that there's wisdom there as well. And so marrying that wisdom with, you know, perhaps what you might call the vitality of the youth, right. The ambitious, how many times have I been told, yeah, well, when you get older, it'll all make sense, right? We need a space at the table for all of those voices to be heard.

And that, again, I mean, this is the term that we use in our work, but like, that's a facilitation process. And it's equally as important as whatever work comes out of that discussion, you know, to make sure that there's a holistic conversation being had. So it's a, it's an important thing to think about. And I think, fortunately, we're at a place, I think it's one of the advantages of being now in this age of information, right, is that it's, in some ways, it's so much easier for everyone to vocalize, you know, to make their voice heard heard and to gain access to those voices. Certainly, we might say it has its downfalls as well, but it's important, you know, and this

conversation about employee well-being has really kind of blown that door off its hinges of, okay, well-being is defined by all of us, and let's make sure that we're doing what we can to create a space that allows everyone's voice to be heard as we are co-creating this definition of well-being as opposed to here's your six free financial counseling sessions that you probably won't use this year it's an equally important service but it's it doesn't have that grassroots well-being feel right which i think is important to really sustain the conversation and to sustain those efforts long-term. It reminds me of the name of your book, The Soil in Spirit.

You know, one of the most hardest things I think in my entire, I guess we want to call it awakening journey is to be grounded. I mean, I could go on vacation and meditation all day forever. And I could also get very lost in work, very lost in my work where time, right. Is like, what? It's been three hours. Oh my gosh. I gotta go. I gotta go pick up my kid from school so having that balance between you know I'm just finding a place to be grounded you know here on earth we're here on earth we have to be present in the presence we're able to see um like what you were just talking about the relationships that need to be honored between generations or mother earth right who we take for granted i mean i am a gen x i don't

know where you are but i mean chicken nuggets in a styrofoam box was like the best thing that happened to me when i was like 10 years old sadly i think one of the things that we're going to have to reckon with as a civilization in not only the next coming decades, but really the next century is this notion of convenience. So the book Soil and Spirit, the title is not only metaphorical, it's also meant to be semi literal. Right. But the idea is that there is a foundational substrate to the spiritual process. There's a soil to that process and it looks slightly different for all of us, but yet there's commonality for all of us as well. You know, I think an easy parallel to draw is well-being, right? Well-being looks different for everyone, but yet the commonality across the well-being spectrum is we know there are certain wellbeing practices

within certain wellbeing domains that are generally good, right? Helpful, maybe a better word as opposed to just good. And that conversation, when you apply it to the context of something as big as climate change is a really, it can be a jarring lane change. And, and one of the things that I think about a lot and talk about a lot is this notion of convenience, right? Because it feels, and it's easy to equate addressing climate change means I will need to give up X, right? Or this notion that we're going to somehow return to you know tribalism as if there's something wrong with tribalism and that's not a separate conversation but you know i'll set it aside for now to recognize in this process which which i would define as a spiritual process

convenience may not be of the highest order right it might not be the most impactful thing or the most important thing and that there's real validity to sinking into the oftentimes hard work you know the sticky emotional spaces but moving into those spaces and effectively processing through them is really what creates a stronger foundation right right? A more resilient substrate, a more resilient soil, more diverse soil biology internally to embark on the spiritual process, to share spiritual gifts with the outside world. And those things are unique to each one of us as individuals. But in order to uncover that uniqueness, that journey of going inward is something that for me has been, it's essential, right? You can't have one without the

other. It's the yin and the yang. It's amazing how when you do go inward, what you see from your inner eyes and what you hear from ears that can hear is something totally different I witness it all the time with my clients I'm like oh my god like you know I just talked to someone just right before we got on she's like I I never noticed how beautiful the world was really you know she can't believe I'm noticing this and that and I'm like I remember that I remember when I first became very present hearing words and songs that I'd never heard before and I'm like, I remember that. I remember when I first became very present and hearing words and songs that I'd never heard before. And I'm like, what? That says that? It's amazing. So it's beautiful. Yeah. You start to see the beauty and you also start to see the stuff that is not so beautiful

anymore. You start to realize, oh my God, why are the clouds so dark. Why is, you know, why is my beautiful Colorado horizon in smoke or, you know, just polluted? And why are we coughing? Why are, why do we have so many allergies? What is this and that? And yeah, you become, that's the one thing. It's like, as soon as you do see for the first time, you can't unsee and you see both the good and you see all the things that are are really damaging there's a clarity and perception that i think comes with this process and i would agree that there's a moment in time there's a realization point that happens on the path where you you recognize that you come to know the world around you more intimately people places things experiences and at the same time feel more distant from it

so true and that's a paradox that mother earth the natural world the universe has an interesting way of balancing things out. And it can be a futile effort to try and only experience the good things in life. But it's not necessarily a futile effort to continually seek for that clarity and perception, right? Because even those moments, the dark moments, as you call them, finding the silver lining is a matter of choice. Absolutely. And you know, it's funny how very quickly, how very quickly we've destroyed the earth. Very quickly. This earth has been here so long and, you know, very quickly the advancement of technology and convenience. And, you know,

it's interesting, my prologue, my book, I actually felt like I was in between two worlds. You know, my book is about the Gnostic Gospels, Sophia. And I literally said, I felt like I was time traveling. And when I would return here, I saw like a more advanced society, but with less evolved people, which was so strange because you would think we got smarter, but in many ways, the materialism, consumerism, the ego just got so big than I think ever was. One of the central premises of the book is the greatest gift you can give the world is saving yourself. And, you know, to hear you share that, it just prompted a reflection point in me of

that inward journey is something that I'm hesitant to use the word, you know, is effortful, but there's a certain amount of accountability that's required when you choose to sincerely embark on that journey. And that accountability eventually for me has led to a sense of responsibility. And it's not only when I use the term convenience, I'm not necessarily just talking about, you know, the chicken nuggets in the box, right? The cell phone in hand, the cars that we drive. It's also, it's an emotional convenience to, in whatever form we choose, distract ourselves from that inner work, you know, and finding that inner

alignment. And so the opportunity to recognize that we have a responsibility, you know, to hold ourselves accountable to that self-actualization process is something that the book, I really tried to be intentional about with the book to not provide an instructional template, right? This is not a one, two, three steps to a new you or a new world type of book, but rather a method and a message to dig into the soils of self and allow that to be something that we embrace both all aspects of it, just both we embrace all aspects and everything

that comes with that journey because you know there's a difference between knowledge and comprehension sometimes I say this with my students right and the way that I equate them is like knowledge exists in the head largely it's an intellectual experience but comprehension starts to move into the body right of how does this knowledge that i have or think that i have keyword being think how does it line up with my actual experience of the world you know and when we start to move past the convenience of just going through the motions not that there's anything wrong with it but that there's a missed opportunity

right to engage with a deeper level of authenticity and intentionality and those are things that have brought many fruits to my life but they required a certain amount of risk taking taking a leap of faith, but more importantly, developing awareness along the way of, oh, this is an ongoing iterative process. And when I had my own mystical experience that kind of prompted an awakening to the spiritual life, I don't want to, you know, not at all claiming that I am awakened, but it was that notion of a bit naive probably, but this notion of, I need to go figure out the spirituality thing. And then, of course, you embark on the journey and you realize, you know, probably not the best word choice at the time or not the best even perspective to go into the journey with.

But it was what I had at the time. Yeah, that condition thought that I can figure it out. I'm going to try to control this to my benefit or whatever it is. I find that all the time. But you know, when you have been told that having something as simple as self-love is like selfish, you know, I mean, if you literally look at the word self-love it's selfish. That's so sad. That was like the biggest thing for me. It was definitely generational. I thought that that was such a beautiful sacrifice that the mother had to give herself completely to her children and have nothing for herself. Broke that, thankfully. There's a line in the book, selfishly pursuing your own liberation is precisely what will invoke the selflessness required to revive the commons.

And I think it's easy to paint with too broad of a brush, you know, in that, with that word selfishness, because there's so much value that comes with self exploration and discovery, which ultimately also leads to boundaries which is a really interesting conversation to have right if we're talking about the spiritual journey at least it has been for me and the notion of you know selfishly pursuing your own liberation, creating selflessness,

again, goes back to that notion of paradox, right? The opportunity to realize that unearthing whatever is within, letting it have time and space to breathe and giving it the attention that it needs in order to heal is what enables us to let go, right? To release those things, whether you call them family lineages or emotions or energetic ties, the language isn't really that important. In my opinion, it's a matter of, again, going back to that sense of responsibility, right? And to your point about

what you inherited from mother, grandmother, and now what you're passing on to your children. It's also interesting to think about how the context and the container with which we have these conversations is always changing. You know, the idea that certainly children now are growing up in a different time and age and era, you know, the idea that it's still foreign to me, you know, children born now won't know a life pre-cell phone. I mean, that's a paradigm shifting technology. And how does that impact human evolution?

Right? For, again, in all ways, all encompassing. Not just the good and the bad, but everything in between as well. That context is so important. You you know it's the backdrop as well as the stage which this whole thing is playing out on in many ways and moving inward and ultimately you know to circle back to you, another word you used in there was awareness, right? It all ties back to self-awareness. It begins there in many ways. It, it ends there. It starts again from there, the opportunity to really experience self-awareness, you know, to, to have self-awareness be something that's experiential,

not just conceptual is another interesting kind of paradigm shift, you know, a crossing of the Rubicon, which is hard to turn away from, right? Once you experience that, or once you see that, once you experience life more fully in that way, you know, going back is still a choice that we can make. But at the same time, with that comes an awareness that there's perhaps a bit of self sacrifice that we are then choosing. Right? I mean, I know that it happens for me on a daily basis. My energy arts practices are something that are integral to my health and well-being. My physical well-being is something that's important to my mental and emotional well-being and i know on days when i lay my head down on my own pillow and i think back

over the day it's like well probably shortchange myself here here and here you know and we need to be able to have those conversations authentically with ourselves we need to be able to have those conversations authentically with ourselves. We need to be able to have those honest realizations and dialogue with ourselves. And I think that's almost a prerequisite to having those honest conversations and dialogue with others, which I think those honest and difficult conversations with others are a prerequisite to really addressing some of these you know global challenges um that that we all find ourselves amidst and whether we're impacted as directly you know like for us living in the united states um we're we're insulated in many ways from the impacts of things like climate change and social injustice and inequities. But even here within the country, we have massive equity gaps. And so in order to really address those things authentically,

we need to have the capacity to be vulnerable with ourselves and in communion with others to put it all out on the table and to talk about and to share about and to learn about and to heal about what comes next. I'm pretty bullish on the self-exploration and discovery being the greatest gift that one can give. At the same time, I recognize that it's only part of an equation that's much larger. You know, how you treat yourself, if you can have an authentic conversation with yourself, right, you can have it with others. If you make sure that you're healthy and, you know, mentally, spiritually on multi-dimensional level, then you attract that. And so all everything around you also, you will see that reflection of you. And so it is true, you know,

that healing from the inside out also reflects on your environment. And I must say, so I've got three generations in the house. My 11 year old, just so sweet, went to sleep crying over the Willow Project. So she otherwise would have never known about the willow project likely had she not have social media or whatever she saw it on so involved in it told me all about it she's 11 this isn't the first time as young as i can remember her caring about the environment she's taught me she's been my teacher all my kids have So there is the good and the bad, you know, when it comes to technology, because they can put together a protest in like 10 minutes if they

wanted to. It's pretty amazing. I think it's just that transition period in between, like we have no balance quite yet. I'm so glad that you mentioned, you know, how technology is also enabling younger generations. It's easy to have the conversation about, you know, all the things that it's doing that are negatively impacting them, you know, from a mental and emotional health and well-being standpoint. I think the literature is pretty clear on that. But this word balance, again, I think is one that's, it's tossed around often, especially in the spiritual world. What does it mean to actually find balance? And what does it feel like when you're feeling balance? Is it something that's even attainable?

Right. It's a word that I think is easily taken for granted or maybe taken too lightly. And there's a certain amount of intentionality, maybe is the right word. Perhaps a better word is insight required to be able to recognize that we're always in transition, you know, and that to have the tools at our disposal that we do now as a collective civilization, also the responsibility that we have now as a collective civilization, when it comes to climate and social justice, we have so many tools, but this is part of the nature of the human species, right? It's part of human nature to, I mean, groupthink, right?

It has been well-documented over time. Like when people get together, we often don't make the best decisions when we're thinking as a group. All the more reason to focus on liberation of self and not because that there's some magical light at the end of the tunnel that is going to enable us to you know x y or z but rather it's a great gift that we can give the world it's also the greatest gift we can give ourselves i think a lot about had access to

this information particularly around climate for me is something that I'm passionate about in my personal life. Had I had access to that information at the age of 10, 11, 12, how profoundly it would have impacted my mental and emotional wellbeing, right? And probably, well, again, in many ways, but at that time, potentially devastating, right? With the skills or lack thereof that I had at that time in my life to deal with my mental and emotional wellbeing. At the same time, how empowering it could have been also, right? To see what's happening, to see the movement, to see the demonstrations, to see the organization around the mobilization, around things that you're passionate about, to recognize that there are

other people on the planet with like-minded values or interests or whatever. And to recognize in that moment when you're feeling alone, I'm not alone. There's other people out there. I just haven't met them yet, or I'm not interacting with them yet, or they're not at my school yet or, or what have you. It's a profound, you know, paradigm shift, I think is really the only word that does it justice. And it's also something that I've been cautiously optimistic about over the last couple of years, right? The pandemic. And for me, I live in Minnesota. I live in St. Paul. George Floyd happened literally across the river. And to see how that impacted our community in so many different ways. To really experience what it was like for everyone to start to pay attention.

You couldn't not pay attention to it. And I've always enjoyed the new year because it comes with this energy of change, right? People are, they're motivated and they're going to start off the year on good terms or whatever. I feel like the last couple of years have been a collective experience for us to have an opportunity to do that. And we could spend, you know, easily hours dissecting what that has meant. And certainly I can only speak from my own perspective as a white identifying heterosexual cisgendered male in America, but collectively coming together to recognize that, you know, again, to go back to the convenience factor, sacrifice might be required for some, but to recognize that that sacrifice is in the name of a greater good,

I personally am willing to make that trade any day of the week. Yeah. It's so sad that something so tragic has to happen for people to be aware of things. When it's happening every day, you don't stop to see it. We're just so busy. I think that's the key. It's the busyness. Absolutely. This stuff is happening every day and has been happening for millennia, right? We're a species, we're an animal, just like any other. And peace is not necessarily something that is super common in the history of our species, right? So it's absolutely happening every day and paying attention to it requires effort for some, because there are many who are experiencing it on a regular basis. And for me, I'm one of those

people that requires effort. I'm privileged enough to live in a world and a society and an economy that has basically been created by people who look and feel and identify like me. And so it requires a lot of effort and intentional learning and awareness applied to expanding my equity lens, which has been a wonderful experience for me over the last couple of years. But to your point about how, you know, making the time for it and being too busy, this age of information has also come with an age of distraction. At any moment in time, if we have a cell phone or access to internet or television or anything else, we can choose to check out. We can choose to let those things pass us by.

And there's something to be said for, there's something healthy about putting space between us and emotions that are overwhelming, but there's a fine line between doing that and escaping and avoiding. And that I think the convenience factor has promoted some of that and the pace at which we live life has promoted some of that because this inward journey is not something that you know it's like oh this is 10-week program and by the end i'll have it figured out and we live in a society here in the west at least that is very outcome oriented rather than process oriented so recognizing that that process is ever present, you know, whether we're intentionally applying our awareness to it or not, it's still happening.

It's a matter of to what extent, at what rate, et cetera. And that's a process that's really essential, I think, to this collective healing. And that's why I share my ancestry journey, because I've been trying to figure out why would my great grandma, who I knew, she died when I was 19, why would she go to such great lengths to change her name, deny her culture, her race. And so I went back and went really deep for like six years went deep and basically what came out of it was I'm a result of white privilege they whitewashed because they knew they had more opportunity so in a time where George Floyd and other things on the news where everybody can see

maybe some people were learning for the first time, especially, you know, the more west you go. It was like perfect opportunity for me to share my story, to connect with all races. I mean, I have so much different stuff in me. I'm the melting pot. And sharing my story has been so powerful for me to know where I came from, where this body came from, where my DNA came from, what they had to go through for me to be here. The stories of our ancestors are true. It's truly remarkable and powerful. Another thing I wanted to tell you is that just last night I got a message from my kid's school.

In fact, it was so late last night that I forgot all about it until right now. And I'm kind of concerned. Our governor polis had made a new law or whatever that all schools needed to be checked for lead in the water. Well, my daughter's elementary school, their water system were affected with lead. And then I was looking at the effects that lead would have maybe on a child. It's worse for a child than like an adult. It's worse for someone elderly. And I have a child with autism. I have a child with ADHD. You know, I have, we have all these different, you know, learning disabilities in my family, in my house. And so I was very concerned. And I'm glad, I want to thank our governor, Poulos, for doing that for our children to be looking out, you know, because we don't know,

we're ignorant, right, to sending our kids to hopefully a safe place. But then again, generations are different. We have fire drills, they have lockdown drills. The industrialization of America and the developing world is something that cannot be understated in terms of its impact on environment and individual health. I think the real challenge about this, and I was just talking about this this morning, is the fact that the solutions exist at the intersection of public policy, the public sector, and the private sector. The interesting component about you and I having this conversation is we also exist and meet them at that intersection as the consumer, right? The individual. And so we have used the term melting pot earlier. We have a melting pot of different sectors and each one of those has its strengths and weaknesses and goals and objectives to create a facilitation process that acknowledges that intersectionality, whether we're talking about climate, whether we're talking about inequity,

whatever we're talking about is half the battle. It's integral to the process. And to your point about, you know, being thankful for the governor and choosing's integral to the process. And to your point about, you know, being thankful for the governor and choosing to actually do the testing, I would agree. And it also is part of the reason why there's the ability to be emotionally vulnerable is a skill that is paramount because to move into these spaces that are often accompanied by discomfort, and if not discomfort, simply the unknown, requires a bit of emotional vulnerability to hear someone with a different perspective, right? I mean, when I really started doing my own trauma healing 10 years ago, it was emotional vulnerability that saw that process through.

And then when George Floyd was murdered, it was a whole new definition of what emotional vulnerability was, right? Because all of a sudden I have to listen. And I should be a little bit more articulate here it's not that i have to it's like i chose to listen but i'm listening from the perspective of my identity and starting to learn more about how that identity has showed up in the world and the harms that it has inflicted over generations which are forefathers and mothers for me but i am now in that lineage and so how to be in a space where I can stay constructive, because that's really what's going to make the change happen, right? It's not enough,

right? The whole concept of white fragility, for example, right? I can't just shut down and choose to avoid it. I could choose that, but I'm not going to because there's a sense of responsibility and there's a sense of camaraderie and community and connectivity that I learned through my own spiritual journey. But now I was able to see it in a new light, right? Through the social lens. And it's absolutely appalling that it took, you know, the murder of an individual. And I think the fact that it was so close to home and then it was not only, it's about a year later, we had another police shooting that was four doors away from the house that I grew up in that my parents still live in. So now anytime I go home to visit my parents, it's also there. And it's this constant reminder as it should be,

this is my role in the world, you know, and this is my identity. And even though I don't personally identify with it, this is how I'm perceived in the world. And I needed to take responsibility for that perception of myself. But again, going back to this, trying to tie that together, this thread of emotional vulnerability is really an essential tool in the tool belt to address some of these challenges. Because if we don't have that skillset, if we're not able to go into those kind of deep waters without the life vest on, then we're also never going to have the opportunity to really like find the biggest fish in the sea, right? Like that was another line from the book is something to the effect of searching without that self-awareness is like trying to find the biggest fish in the ocean,

but only searching the top 10 feet of water. You're never going to find it. And as we continue to learn more about ourselves, as I continue to learn more about myself, it was like, okay, I went really deep here, but I haven't gone really deep here. And so what does that look like? And how do I take the skillset, as you were saying at the beginning, right? And recognize that that skillset translates to other areas of life. And I'm going to have to modify the toolkit a little bit, but the reality is I've already started this process. I just need to figure out how to, how to adapt accordingly. Right. Yes. You know, we had Elijah McClain here. He's on the spectrum. So that hit me hard. And he also was a massage therapist, like I am, you know, for over a decade. And just knowing massage therapists, I mean, we're all kind of the same kind of people.

Well, most of us. It just killed me. They profiled him and he ended up dying as a result. And again, it changes things. It does, you know, I mean, when you think of a lot of great people who have died for change to happen, you know, in a positive way. And I knew that when he died, that it was almost like a sacrifice, you know, in some way, maybe his soul even chose to, I don't know. But it definitely brings awareness and a consciousness into a community. You know, unfortunately, I think, again, we're still in

that transitional period and transition is usually not a comfortable place. We haven't quite cracked through the cocoon yet. We're still struggling. And that's, it's a hard time. You know, any kind of transition is a hard time I remember every time I had like you want to call them awakenings and each time there's this little uncomfortable space as I shed an older version of myself and we are made of the same stuff as mother earth so she's mad you can tell she's? Too. And she's shaking in her glory and, and trying to wash away the old, you know, I'm being from New Orleans. I could tell you there were so many stories about hurricanes and a relentless people, relentless people. People would ask,

why would anyone even live there? Like, because this is the land they're from that they love. People say, oh, the muddy Mississippi. I love that Mississippi. And in fact, many people should love that Mississippi because it pretty much is the reason why we have an economy and that we even have a United States. The river that I refer to right across the river is also the Mississippi. One of the things that I'm passionate about in terms of thinking about the leverage points that are really going to move the climate movement forward, right, is also increasing awareness. And I think it's easy to think about nature as wilderness. One definition of nature is wilderness, right? And so here in Minnesota, we're fortunate enough to have the Boundary Waters, which is a vast expanse of still predominantly wilderness. At the same time,

not everyone has the right or the privilege to experience nature as wilderness. And not knowing that as a kid, right, when we would take family camping trips, you know, of course, as a child, you just think this is normal. Everyone does this. And then you get older and you realize that's not the case. Right. It's just my definition of normalcy. It's been my experience. As I've been thinking about the different ways to connect people to nature, the different way that I interact with nature every day. You know, it's not like I'm a throw out on Walden Pond. I live in the city, you know, and I spend a lot of my time doing virtual work is through food, right? And food is an opportunity

for us to interact with the natural world every single day. And here in the Midwest, one of the things that I think a lot about is the Mississippi river Delta. And we have a very rich places in the country still have an extremely rich soil and soil fertility and conventional agriculture practices i don't i'm not painting them with an entirely broad brushstroke right they're not entirely negative because they have fed and continue to feed mostly many animals right which many people. But to think about the vast expanse of the Midwest and the upper part of the Mississippi River Delta, and the amount of nutrients, if we just think about farming alone, the amount of nutrients that are going into the ground, into the soil, eventually making their way to the Mississippi River, right? Whether it be at

the headwaters or south of the headwaters or north of the headwaters, it doesn't matter, or downstream, right, Further down the states. It's a beautiful illustration, a natural illustration of interconnectedness. The decision that a farmer is making in Montana can impact someone living in Louisiana. And to think about the cancer rates that are astronomically high down there in the Southern tip of the Mississippi, because they're just collecting all of the chemicals that have been flowing. And so it's things like these that not only keep me up at night, but also get me out of bed in the morning. It's not enough to just say, Hey, that's a bad thing, but what am I going to do about it? Well,

I can't really do anything to say, okay, this is something that needs to be addressed. What can I do about it? You know, and again, I think it's, it's really easy to, to just blackball farmers, right? Well, if they just change their practices, X, Y, Z, well, we have to have this conversation about context. We need to think about the industry space that they exist in, right? And we need to think about, for example, I just learned the other day, wheat farmers, we need to think about, for example, I just learned the other day, wheat farmers, let me be more specific, will often spray their fields shortly before harvest because it dries out the crop and makes it easier to combine. So I had known that for several years, but then I was talking to a friend who used to be in the commodity space.

And he said, the other reason why they do that is because they get a higher price point for their grain, the drier it is. So again, we need to understand the context that we are all existing in that are impacting our decision-making. And it can be overwhelming to drink from the fire hose of, you know, information in terms of that context, but also empowering to drink from that fire hose and to learn why certain behaviors are incentivized, why certain decision-making processes are incentivized, why certain groups of people are incentivized to make certain decisions. And the more I move through this process, the less interested I am in trying to point the finger at all of the quote unquote bad things that are happening. And the more invested I am in just trying to be part of the solution.

Yeah. I had a teacher tell me years ago at a training, there are people who need to be in the streets protesting the current system. And there are people who need to be building new systems. And one person can't exist on both ends of the continuum at the same time. It's too emotionally taxing to do both. It was one of those messages, right? That just kind of a turning point in life and that sticks with you for a long time after the fact. And it helped me realize that I'm really passionate about building new systems, but it also, over the last couple of years, has changed in the way that I kind of perceive and define what building new systems means. to know as someone who still has a long way to go from a learning standpoint, if I just recreated what I had in my head, I would probably be repeating a lot of the past lessons from history. And so it's a big reason why a lot of our work with organizations specifically, and then as well

as my work with individuals and communities and groups at speaking events or whatever is about a facilitation process, right? It's not our job from an organizational standpoint to come in and say, here's what wellbeing looks like. It's our job to come in and say, how do you define wellbeing? Let's help you create that. And that's a fundamental paradigm shift. I like that you do that. That happens a lot when people come into places like this is the way you got to do it, you know, and there's no power in that. There's a convenience to it, right? I mean, hey, we try and prioritize as much custom services as possible.

We also have off the shelf stuff when it comes to employee well-being, but we do not deliver services without having this conversation first, right? Saying, look, here's our theory of change. Here's our philosophy. Here's how we prefer to work. We recognize that not every organization has the capacity to do that or the desire to do that. At the same time, to your point about, you know, trying to give the power back, as to go back to the equity conversation, as a white identifying American male, it's my responsibility to leverage that privilege in such a way that enables or facilitates

a process that allows other people to find their own definition of well-being. And I'm still absolutely on a journey of discovering what that looks like for myself and what that looks like as a team in terms of the work that we do. Fortunately, we're not all white male identifying, but there's a richness and an authenticity of that process that it doesn't happen without the co-creation. And if I can be an agent of change or an agent of a catalyst for change or facilitation process in such a way that enables more seats at the table or more voices at the table to be heard, I absolutely have a responsibility to do that. Wow. What a beautiful gift you have to bring people together in that way,

creating a space that is so needed. You know, it's interesting when you mentioned about the Gulf, driving the ancestry mini series, one of my last episodes that I did, God, I was so sad. So my family is from Plaquemines Parish. This is where the roots of it, right at the Gulf of the Mouth in Mississippi. And my cousin that I actually found through the Ancestry DNA, he went before the government. A brief note about myself. My name is Clarence DuPlessis. I was born in a small fishing community named

Devante, just north of Point LaHash, Louisiana, in 1945. My family settled in Plaquemines Parish six generations before me. After high school, I joined the United States Marine Corps and served a tour of duty in Vietnam. While in the military, I met my beautiful wife, Bonnie, who was in the Navy. After the military, I worked here in Chau Met for Kaiser Aluminum. I was laid off in 1989 after the plant was shut down.

After that, I went to full-time commercial fishing. In 2005, my wife and I lost everything we owned to Hurricane Katrina. Then just a few weeks ago, we were faced with the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. This one was the worst of all these stressful and economic tragedies. Now, before the critics lower their heads and say, no way, I'll explain. During my tour in Vietnam, I was faced with an enemy that wanted to kill me. This was a problem with a solution. Kill them first, survive for 13 months, and the problem was solved.

When Kaiser Aluminum shut down I had a young family to feed, clothe, and educate. This also was a problem with the solution. I had experience with fishing, oysters, and also shrimping. I had salt water in my veins from birth. I went fishing. My children paid their college tuition by working as deckhands on the boats. And I might mention they loved every minute of it. In 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit us with a crippling blow, a major problem. Even then, though the entire region was wiped out and the insurance companies packed their bags and left us, there was still a solution, and just in case there's anyone here who has not yet noticed. The people of South Louisiana and the fishing communities of South Louisiana are some of the hardest working, most defiant, yet kindest people on God's earth. After the storm, we faced a difficult task of rebuilding,

but that was the solution. Now, five years later, we're facing the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. This is the worst of our problems because there are no answers, no solutions, only questions. As we watch our livelihoods and even an entire culture being washed away by crude oil and chemicals that no one knows the long-term effects of, we ask, will we have the mortgage payment next month? Will we be able to go to bed tonight instead of falling asleep in front of the TV hoping for some good news?

What if they don't stop the leak? How long will this last? Will I be able to go archery next year or ever again? How long will it take the fisheries to recover? Will BP come around with the much-needed monies they promised? Will BP do the right thing? Or will they also pack their bags and leave us like the insurance companies did? What can I do to survive?

What if we get a tropical storm or hurricane in the Gulf? How can I get a loan when the SBA still holds the mortgage on all my property from Katrina? I have a thousand questions and no answers. I hope now you can understand why this is the worst tragedy of my lifetime. I thank you for your time and may God bless you all. The oil spill had destroyed the Gulf and its wildlife, killed I think a million pelicans. Saddest thing to hear a man who had lived through so many things and Mother nature showed her wrath in that community

over and over and over and those people are freaking relentless it's amazing I went and visited you know during my pilgrimage of discovering my roots and this guy the constable took us to the old graveyard and you know all the graves in Louisiana are above ground and he goes well all of here is your people he goes not and I put back these graves the best I could because I found him about 250 yards down the road during Katrina but it was man who who who caused this environmental change. It's devastating. And I get that a lot of people, you know, are for oil in America and all these things.

And at one point, that was the most richest part of America. People don't even know that either. Pagmas Parish. Very sad. tag most parish very sad yeah to think about how the interconnected nature right of life itself specifically the natural environment and to to address the social component first you know reparations, restitution are absolutely part of the process of reconciliation. So to separate those is absolutely unfair, as I'm learning. And I think that that same lesson can be applied to the natural environment as well.

There's an opening line in the book, something to the effect of we're at the developmental stage of a toddler. We pull out all of our toys and we neglect to put them back, right? Toys being the analogy being we're pulling out all of these quote unquote natural resources. We're not putting them back and the impact that that has and i remember coming back from standing rock and was riding with a first nations gentleman named woblaza and he he taught me that lesson that notion of natural resources it's a term that you people use and you need to stop using it because it fundamentally defines the earth as a reservoir to deplete. It's a, the natural world is something to take from again, to go back to this interconnected nature, right. Of life and existence.

I had someone just asked me this morning, right? Well, what about the last ice age? Hasn't the climate always been changing? My response was yes, absolutely. And the science and data still tell us that we are impacting that change at this point in time. To me, it's beside the point. Like we're screaming at the same moon. It just depends on which side we're standing on, but to do the work that's required to move into an experiential awareness around it is an essential component of this process, right? I mean, to think about, again,

it's something I think about a lot being here in the Midwest. Certainly our climate is changing like everywhere else. And I just read within the last year that Minneapolis is actually one of the faster warming cities in the United States, but we will be a place, we already are a place for climate refugees because we have an abundance of clean water. Our soil is still relatively fertile. You know, it's not going to be, I mean, it's certainly getting hotter in the summers, but we're not dealing with the, you know, temperatures that they're seeing in Louisiana, Florida, Arizona, et cetera. Our climate is still, I'm not going to use the term stable because it's certainly intensifying

like it is everywhere else as well, but it's still livable. We need to be sure that we're preparing for that because people have the right to come here. And we have, again, a responsibility to recognize that this is a shared land. I mean, let's not forget, and perhaps it's a shame that we've gotten this far in the conversation without saying this, but like, let's not forget that those of us that are having this conversation like this entire country was built on the back of stolen land right and first nations people not only have a right to be here but also have the inherent wisdom of what it means to relate with the land in a mutually beneficial, co-existent, sustainable way. And there are many of us who have lots to learn from that.

And so I want to be very clear that I'm not here. I'm simply standing on the shoulders of giants, right? And a lot of what's in the book and i i tried to be very intentional about this in the book was addressing the fact that like this is not new knowledge right and this notion of respecting the earth living within the bounds of natural law is and has been present in indigenous cultures around the world again for millennia um and so the book is, it's not meant to be in the, in the, quite frankly, the way that I live my life is not meant to be or feel in such a way that like, I guess, to go back to the equity thing, to use that term, like white savior, that's absolutely not my approach. Certainly. And like, as I i've stated i still have work to do there but

there's a collective wisdom that we need to pull from you know as much as we need indigenous wisdom and ways of life in order to address this climate uh crisis at scale we're also going to need innovation right in tech and we're going to need to find a way to marry those things together as best we're able at this time in order to get through the next decade and century. And that's a, it's a monumental challenge and it's going to take a lot of individuals lending whatever hands and time and energy they can. And to recognize that, again, you know, climate justice and social justice are two wings of the same bird. They can't be separated. We can't really have the conversation about one without having a conversation about the other. So I tried to be very intentional about that as I was writing the book. And fortunately, I was also writing the book while in grad school at the Humphrey School

of Minnesota, University of Minnesota, which was a public affairs program and equity oriented. So it was good timing in that way. But the answers that we're seeking exist. They're already within us. They're already around us. The courage to accept those answers and to enable them and enact them and create space for the people who have them and the earth who already has it is really, it's a different process entirely. And to move through that process with that awareness is in my opinion, the only way that we're going to be able to have this conversation holistically and authentically and to the depths that we're going to need to have it at, because there's too much, we'll use the term earlier, whitewashing, right? In the climate space, there's too much greenwashing

and we need to do whatever we need to do from a climate perspective, but we have a huge opportunity and again, responsibility as we're addressing the climate crisis to address so many of the other things that have led to the climate crisis along the way. Right. You know, the disenfranchised

the same mistakes right you know and i had a first like in my ancestry you're hitting again but i had a great shaman named etanine pigarosh he was a first nation shaman up by um for riviere and he is known as the apostate because the Jesuits made him convert to Christianity. That's what he's known for. And the Jesuits wrote a great deal on him. So I studied him and connected with other descents of his. And they've become very good friends of mine. So another thing just super heavy on my heart, know about that and the reparations I feel for

them as well slaves and you know who I also had in my tree so I think that you know again ignorance is bliss but you can't deny that it's there so again going back right to figure out how we got here in the first place I mean it's almost's almost just like, you know, when you have an illness, you know, we can just put a bandaid on it or we can find out, you know, how it came to be where it started. So we can get to the root cause and have real healing. The vulnerability is, I think, the most important. That and the awareness.

The awareness and then, of course, the ability to share like you have, and like I have. I bet a lot of people don't even know half of the environmental issues, like just even the one I just shared. I mean, 50% or more of, you know, whoever listens to this is not going to even have ever heard of that. That, you know, to go back to, I said this earlier in the conversation about needing to stay in a constructive space, the willingness to choose courage is something that I've learned over the years is not really a choice. You know, and you started out with that phrase, ignorance is bliss. And I understand that it's a common phrase and I understand that there are certain blissful, there's bliss that comes with ignorance, but only to a certain extent. Right. And the way that I think about that particular common phrase now is almost the exact opposite, right? Ignor ignorance is not necessarily bliss ignorance is like a prison

to even talk about choice is also to talk about privilege in the same exact sentence right whether you're overtly stating it or not so choice meeting heresy as well very interesting to me it is the freedom it's an interesting conversation in space yep and to be to be blessed with my own personal opportunity there's that word again to show up as best i'm able every day to do this work is really the thing that it's not always, you know, the, the warm, fuzzy butterflies of inspiration. Sometimes it is, but oftentimes it, it takes on a different form than that. And it's a choice to stay grateful for that opportunity, right? It's a matter of perspective. We were talking earlier about the word balance and how i feel like it gets kind of tossed around in spiritual circles and i think

another one is uh you know positivity or happiness right what's the meaning of life to be happy i would opt for purpose before i opted for happiness It's not to say that they're mutually exclusive, but it is to say that there's a matter of priority that I perceive. Perception is changing, of course, day by day, hour by hour, to have as a collective right now to have the insight that we are alive at a time in the evolution of our civilization where we get to decide whether we're going to survive and thrive or not. We have the sixth mass extinction knocking on our door. And on my healthiest of days, I remember the fact that the earth has gone through five mass extinctions already. And each time she creates something more beautiful than the last. So I don't necessarily think it'd be the worst thing in the world, but why would we not make

the choice to see this process through as difficult and challenging as it's going to be at times and as rewarding and as blessed as it's going to be at times you know those things also coexist together we're going to experience them together but to circle back to the younger generations right and again another notion from the first nations people is this notion of seven generations and beyond how do we structure our life and our decision-making in such a way that not only can conceptualize that, but can really integrate it into our decision-making, into the way that we conduct ourselves, interact with one another, impact the physical landscape? To me, this is a spiritual process. And I'm totally open to different definitions. It doesn't matter to me.

I have many good friends. We long spirited debates spirited debates about whether spirit actually exists or not right it's healthy I think is what it is right and healthy doesn't always feel good maybe that's the way to say it well and I think that the beautiful little conditioned American box didn't include anything ugly in it right no ugly No ugly history to know. Don't get me started about the holidays, actually, and the traditions. I had someone tell me the most beautiful thing the other day, and it really stuck with me. The loop that we are on as a society, many times habits and loops and stuff start with traditions. And she suggested that maybe we change our traditions or be more authentic maybe to our own family's traditions and she suggested that maybe we change our traditions or be more authentic, maybe to our

own family's traditions and making our own and getting out of the loop. I loved it and want to adopt it because it's not that I don't love the togetherness of holidays and whatnot, but, you know, can we truly be authentic, you know, in celebrating something that is not authentic. Yeah. Or authentic to some and not others or. Yes. From an organizational standpoint, a phrase that has resurfaced for me called right-sizing, as opposed to downsizing an organization, we're right-sizing the organization.

So effectively they're synonymous terms. And again, in our work with organizations, I mean, theoretically, you can right-size upward too. I've just not yet heard it used in that context. From an organizational standpoint in that space, in the work that we do to have the conversation of, you know, it's not, it's not only is it not enough to just change the language of something, but to do the same action, it's also inherently disrespectful, you know? And so one of the things that we're consistently trying to do, particularly in organizations where we're brought in to help with culture-related pieces, is not only facilitating the process, which I mentioned before, but is also helping people in positions of hierarchical leadership to recognize that the acts they swing within the organization is in many ways larger than a frontline staff person. And to do justice to the process of addressing an organization's culture requires a reciprocity.

You know, it requires an honest look at equality and inequality. And I want to be very clear that we're also fortunate working with organizations of all types, working with leaders of all types. There are amazing leaders out there and we've been fortunate to work with them as well. Again, humanity exists on the spectrum, but to your point about authenticity, right. And renaming things, that was just one thing that surfaced for me. That's been kind of a theme that we've been working through in the workspace recently is this notion of right sizing and what does it look for this particular organization? And how was that manifesting in terms of the actions of leadership and, and, you know, at times,

and we've had to do this before as well as, is this the right organization for us to be working with? Because we're very clear and explicitly upfront around, you know, we do this work in order to create systemic change. And it's not to suggest that we only want to work with organizations who are in it for the long haul because there's a certain amount of privilege in that, right? To be able to choose to only work with the people who get it and want to do it. But rather, are we the most effective agents of change for this particular organization?

And if not, we're actually doing them a disservice by continuing to fill this role, because there may be a better service provider out there who actually can meet their needs and help give them what they're looking for. And again, going back to this notion of it's not our place to define what wellbeing looks like for an organization. It's also not our place to define what appropriate leadership looks like for an organization, right? And it's also being outside consultants by nature, you know, sometimes we're asked and we can advise, but it's also not our position to determine how leadership leads. So it was just an interesting parallel that came up for

me as you were talking about, you know, those cultural components. And that's a lot of what our work is about from an organizational standpoint. You know, it's really culture work, but we're accessing it through these different doors. And I think a lot of what we've been talking about, you and I today in this conversation is also culture work, right? How do we address the internal landscape, one of the sections of the book

in order to create a culture that can effectively address some of the challenges that we're facing. And culture often is synonymous with behavior modification. And those are challenging things by nature for human people to do if they are either not prepared or committed to the process. So that behavior modification piece being interrelated with the culture piece is an interesting component to roll around because, again, there's no one size fits all. We need to recognize that and honor that space as well, for sure. We just need to do different, right? Quickly, as quickly as we

fucked up the world, we need to get it back as quickly. There's a quote by the co-founder of permaculture, which is a regenerative design philosophy. His name was Bill Mollison. And he said, I think, I hope I'll get it right. Though the problems of the world are increasingly complex, the solutions remain embarrassingly simple. Those solutions begin with sitting still, right? And I don't mean sitting still and doing nothing. I mean, sitting still to find a centeredness before we then go act. There's a fine line between being and doing and doing without conscious intent can do a lot of harm. Yeah. Well, thank you, Ian.

It's been a very enlightening conversation. And that's what I was trying to say at the very beginning. I saw like this inner work that expands and just dominoes. That's how I thought it actually would save the world. From a theory of change perspective, that is not only how I feel, but it's what I've experienced in my own life. Certainly the book is only informed by my own experience. And I shouldn't say only, but it's informed by my personal experience. And so that is really also how I chose to structure the book from inside to out, right? And perhaps we could have started with this, but the internal landscape

is the first section, which leads to the social landscape external landscape spiritual landscape so the quintessential you know stone dropped in the pond creates that ripple effect that theory of change from an inward internal landscape transformational journey and process is naturally going to impact the world around us and i feel strongly that should we choose to start there as opposed to running around and trying to fix everyone else's problems, that it's an impactful place to start. I just appreciate how authentic that is for you, what you wrote. You know, people can write books or can talk the talk, but this truly is, you know, what you've experienced to be true

and now want to see in the world. I mean, I know it's a cliche kind of saying, but you absolutely represented that today authentically from your heart, which I think I felt, and I know our listeners will too. I appreciate the kind words and the infamous words of Don Miguel Ruiz. I will try and not take them personally. I love that guy. Hey, can you tell everybody where they can get your book and where they can find out more about you? Absolutely.

Soil and Spirit. The subtitle is Seeds of Purpose, Nature's Insight, and the Deep Work of Transformational Change. You can find it pretty much anywhere you buy books online. And then if you want to track me down personally, the best kind of one stop shop is www.reviveuandi.com. The word revive, the letter U-A-N-D-I.com. That is my personal website. It will also link you to our organizational consulting website. And it is also, the URL is also my handle on most social media channels, Revive UNI. All right. Well, thank you very much.

Yeah. Thank you for bringing this awareness to us. I think it was very important and I couldn't be happier to help you get the word out. So thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks for your time. All right. Nice to meet you. Me too. Thanks for listening to Sense of Soul Podcast. And thanks to our special guests for joining me.

If you want more of Sense of Soul, check out my website at www.mysenseofsoul.com, where you can work with me one-on-one or help support Sense of Soul podcast by donating to my coffee fund. Thanks for listening.