Sense of Soul - Spiritual Guidance and the Evolving Soul

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

Today we have with us the story of “A Conventional Man’s Journey into an Unconventional World.” Our guest Bud Megargee who is a former senior healthcare executive; a Washington, DC, healthcare lobbyist; and an independently published, award-winning author. Bud joined us for an amazing conversation about his recent book ‘Soul Afterlife – Beyond the Near Death Experience’, an unorthodox examination of death, soul life and the process of a plausible reincarnation. By traveling outside the restrictions of traditional convictions, near death experiences start to take on the appearance of walking along the parameter of an extremely complex afterlife. Beyond our ego defined picture of what occurs after we take our last breath lies something extraordinarily multifaceted, yet magically powerful.  His latest book Soul Afterlife…the latest in his Series of Unconventional Memoirs, that survey the potential existence of a world of souls. His carefully documented ten-year journey into this unexpected realm does not always reveal obvious answers, it delivers a challenging and touching review of unusual possibilities. With the passion that echoes the dedication of Carlos Castaneda, in “The Teachings of Don Juan”, seekers of the truth of human existence will find Bud Megargee’s journey both intimate and illuminating.  Visit his website and grab his books www.budmagargee.com Facebook Visit our website to learn more about us www.mysenseofsoul.com To find out the answers to our questions that Bud asked Laz…Join our Sense of Soul Patreon!! Our community of seekers and lightworkers who get exclusive workshops, live events like SOS Sacred Circles, ad free episodes and more. You can also listen to Mande’s mini series about her two NDE’s and Shanna’s Untangled mini series. Sign up today and help support our podcast. https://www.patreon.com/senseofsoul NEW!! SENSE OF SOUL’S NETWORK OF LIGHTWORKERS! Go check out our Affliates page, adding new amazing programs each month. Check it out! https://www.mysenseofsoul.com/sense-of-soul-affiliates-page

Welcome to the Sense of Soul podcast. We are your hosts, Shanna and Mandy. Grab your coffee, open your mind, heart and soul. It's time to awaken. Today we have with us Bud McGarkey. He's joining us today to talk about his new book called Soul Afterlife Beyond the Near-Death Experience. A book that takes an unconventional approach to explore what happens after we die through a series of conversations with a voice from the beyond. We are so excited to have Bud on today. We have anticipated this episode and we can't wait to share his amazing yet unconventional story with you. Bud, thank you so much for joining us. It's absolutely an honor to have you with us.

I'm so glad to finally have you on. How are you? We're good today. You all are in Colorado, is that where you are? We are. Where are you at? Outside of Philadelphia, heading towards Baltimore. There's a lot of really spiritual people that live in that area. There's a lot of, it's really interesting that you say that. My daughters, I tend to see nothing, okay? And that's by design.

I don't want to see anything. My daughter tends to see things from time to time and uh she has uh mentioned gettysburg and uh seeing some things out there that she questions the validity of you know etc yeah you know we had a paranormal investigator on who talked about out of all the places that he's investigated, he found the most interesting and the most activity. Yeah, it's just it's a strange, this whole soul thing is a strange business to kind of get when you tip your toe in the water. We can talk a bit about that today if you want. Oh, cannot wait. Cannot wait. I mean, like we've been talking about your book since before we attempted to have you on. And then even after with other guests, we've recommended it.

I found your book to be absolutely not only mind blowing, but unique. And it wasn't a super easy read for me, because I wanted to keep going back and actually absorbing it rather than just reading it. I feel like it's one of those books where I could read it over and over and over again, and it would continue to resonate with me on an even deeper level. But I just I really, really enjoyed it. Yeah, I didn't want to write it. So I guess I have to do a little bit of background. I've run psychiatric programs my whole life in hospital settings, mostly. And part of that and part of my training was to journal. So I've been journaling my basically my

whole life. And in this particular instance, I was journaling to try to get some understanding of some life-related issues. But what I was really looking at was within the world of behavioral health, and people do a very good job. It's a tough job. What we package of what we do in terms of addressing the person's mind, body, and soul. Well, it was fairly easy to articulate what we do with the mind, you know, in terms of the therapies we have and interventions we have with the body we have and all kinds of pharmaceuticals that give people relief from their pain and suffering. But on the spirit side, there really wasn't much of an answer to that. But for 40 years or 35 years, I just kind of went through the motions of, well, that's just something we do. We just don't do it very well.

We don't pay attention to it much, but very often in hospital settings, mostly it was a local minister coming on on Sunday afternoon to minister to whoever was willing to go to the cafeteria, you know? Yeah. But we, so that was the piece I was interested in is, is what do we, what can we do in terms of, if anything, in terms of addressing the spirit of the soul of the person?

What does that really mean? You know, when we talk about the spirit of man, the spirit of woman, what is that? I studied at a number of Buddhist monasteries, and I was in particular one in Northern Virginia. And I was really looking for the answer and hoping that they would have something to inject in terms of what I could take back to my hospitals. You know, they do a good job also in terms of their meditation, their breathing, their, you know, alternative medicine therapies, etc, etc. But I had an elderly monk who for some reason, took me under his wing. And he said, you know,

you have a lot of questions, you can tell it by the book. You have a lot of questions. He said, you know, sometimes there's people who have gifts that are unusual that answer those questions. And maybe someday you'll find that person or that gift or they'll find you. And so that was really the stepping off point for a journey, what I call an expedition into the world of souls. But what I was really looking for was, how do I answer that initial question, which was, if we're going to do these things in a hospital setting, how do we do it if we do it at all? What I learned was that when you enter into that unexpected world of consciousness, you don't really understand that it's going

to affect your life. You think you're just going to be able to answer this question. But to answer that question, you really have to, you can't dip your toe in the water. You know, you have to get completely submerged in it, really how this all came to be. And the journaling was just something I always did. When it came to writing the book, you know, I had looked at everything I had had looked at, I'm sure you two have as well. You know, you go into medicine and they have their version of what the essence of man is and the soul is, is, you know, there's all kinds of religious dogma and everybody has an opinion about all that. You can certainly go on an internet if you're up for that. There's this wide variety of things going on there. But there are also some literary people who've done a lot of work in terms of writing about it, Michael Newton stuff and

Mooney stuff and other people. And they all get fairly well applauded in terms of what they're able to do. And then there's a whole NDE community. And one of the two of you, I think, mentioned to me that you had an NDE experience, and that's a courageous kind of thing for people to kind of put out there, which gives you a piece of information about it. And there's all other kinds of mystical people that weigh in in terms of what the soul is really like. What my Buddhist friend, his name is Kenshin, that's not his real name, that's the name he asked me to give people. Kenshin, he says, you know, if you really want answers to these kind of questions, you have to go to the source. So what is the source of that information? For me, I was really

fortunate. I mean, I found an individual up in the mountains of Pennsylvania who has, she's just a very different person, a reluctant, she has a lot of titles that people give her, you can call her a psychic, sage, whatever you want to call her, reluctant on all levels, but she had a talent, and we kind of hit it off for two reasons. One, we had both studied at monasteries, so she had a background and all that, and that was really the engagement that we had, and through that relationship, you know, there's really five books that we've written together, the latest of which is the afterlife. The early books were just answering questions. I'll share something with you or the people who listen to your podcast. When other things started

coming in, other personalities or other energies started coming in, I didn't know what to do. Nor did she either. I mean, she had had many experiences like that, but not one that was as, let's say, as intense or as specific. And so I'm embarrassed to say this. I went on the internet to find out, what am I supposed to ask this thing? You get questions like, do you have a name how do i know you etc etc we went through that you know the first book that i wrote is largely an examination

of all that but over time if you again you can't dip your toe in the water over time it kind of develops into a whole series of things and then it ends up recently with the afterlife book we're going to do another book after this, but the afterlife book. But that's how, that's the evolution of it. You know, what I found for me, I'm not so sure this is for other people. Whenever you enter into that kind of world, you know, you know, what do you want to believe about it? Do you want to believe the message you're getting? Do you want to believe in the messenger that's giving you the message? Do you want to believe in how that message is coming to you, the form in which it comes to

you? And I get a lot of questions about that because of everything that's in my book comes by way of a surrogate or a proxy. It's not me. I'm just asking questions. And what I tell people mostly is I don't think it matters where you go get the information. You still have to answer any one of those three questions. You know, I was raised Catholic. Even if I want to go down that road, I still have to have a leap of faith about where all that is coming from and whether I want to believe it or not. So that was the text behind why it all kind of came together. The way I wrote it was I wanted you to be there with me because I found the experience extraordinary, but I also wanted somebody to be, I wanted like a

co-pilot. I wanted somebody to be sitting next to me saying, yeah, I can hear this stuff too. So it's written in that way. That's why it's in a dialogue you know narrative narrative format but i also wanted people to understand that if you have that kind of experience that environment we're sitting with somebody in exchange is different how it all comes to you uh and then there's the topic whatever the topic of the book is you know in this case it was afterlife which i I found extraordinary. It was nothing that I expected. My background and my training was very counter to all that.

And if you read the whole book, you see me struggle through the whole book to try to make sense of all that. And what am I absorbing, what I'm not absorbing? I also wanted people to know, to have an experience where if you were sitting in front of somebody who knew you better than you know yourself, what questions would you ask? And what answer would you give knowing that you could not bullshit this person? And that's kind of also within the text of the book. So that's how it all came together. You said something that I think is so important to ask questions. You know, I get a lot of people that come to me that say that something is speaking to them or that someone

in the spirit world is coming to them in the middle of the night, or that they're feeling this energy in their room, or that sometimes when they're sitting at the park, they get like these downloads and they don't know what to do. And that's exactly what I always tell them. So funny, we forget as humans, it's simple. Just ask questions. Who are you? It's so foreign to us that we're like, oh God, what do we do? But really you hit the nail on the head. That's where it starts is just conversating and asking those simple questions to start. The other phenomenon that, oh, there's a couple. One is the way in which, you know, at that, Mandy, with what you're saying with that moment, you know, how does your ego interpret that moment? You know, if you're ego oriented in the sense that none of that kind of stuff exists, and I don't know what that is, and you're going to open-minded, then you may be in a position to say, maybe I can ask some questions about this. The other part of it is, what is it that you're experiencing at that moment? You know, and I asked a lot of questions over the course of 10 years.

I've asked, by the way, Laz is a name we gave him. It was a half of a joke that I thought that because I was now engaged with him, have you really risen from the dead, you know, kind of thing. So I'm not so sure he took it that funny. I thought it was funny. His name is a vibration. And he gives you, it's hard to explain this. He gives you a little snippets, a little nuggets of what not only what it is like, but what you are like there, the complexity of you while you're there. That's a hard thing for anybody's ego to administer, that there's more, you know, my Buddhist friends tell me this, have told me this for decades, you're far more than what you think you are. That's interpreted tenfold by somebody like Lars. You know what I find interesting is that at the beginning of my journey,

I found myself writing a lot. It was uncontrollably coming out of me. I felt like I was like throwing up all over paper. And I had discovered over that time that I had a spirit guide named David. Then two years later, I had a past life regression and an in-between life session prior to the regression. And he was a mute Franciscan monk. And I didn't know what a Franciscan was. And lucky me, I get a monk that can't talk to the spirit guide. In the in-between lives, he tells the regressionist that he's always been speaking to me

through my writing. And I was like, oh, well, that makes so much sense now. He also, or in in-between lives, he called me by my soul's name. And it was like, not a name. It was like this long drawn out sound. Yeah. It sounded like Nia, but it was very drawn out. It was very strange. It becomes musical, right? When I was reading your book, that really stuck out to me because it was so validating. Your whole book, I mean, it was just,

except for the octopus, I will say. Well, we can get into that a little bit. Yes, please. The octopus kind of grown on me a little bit, and I get more questions about the octopus analogy than anything. Oh, they're fascinating, though. Just unbelievable creatures. It's funny because right around that time, I had just watched that documentary about the man with his best friend, the octopus.

And octopuses were coming out at me after I read your book, Everywhere. You know how that is, the awareness. I accidentally sent an octopus emoji to Shanna like a couple days after I read your book. But before we jump into the octopus, can we back up just a minute? Like, how did you get into this behavioral health position? What was it that actually just was like that nudge to you where you were like, I am going to dedicate a lot of my time to researching the soul? You know, I thought about this, especially at my age now, about how anybody kind of gets into the rhythm of doing what they're doing. And when I look back, I just kind of fell

into it. When I was in my undergraduate school, and they asked me what my degree was going to be in at my start of my junior year, I had no idea. I said, that's psychology. So that was the door that got in. When I got out, there is an incident in the book. When I was in graduate school, I was volunteering at a crisis center. And I tell the story about meeting this one guy. I was about 22, I guess there. And because I had an interest in all of it, they made me the director of it. I didn't want to be the director. They made me the director. So I mean,'t want to be the director. They made me the director. So I mean, some of those things just kind of fall in place. And maybe that's because

it's supposed to be that way. Or maybe your energy is geared that way. Laz at one point asked me, what's the one word that defines what you are? Not who you are, what you are. I look at the faces of you two. If somebody asked you that question, what's the word you come up with? What are you? Because it translates to what's part of your purpose here? Are you an artisan? Are you a teacher? Are you a warrior? And I had no answer for him because it's one of those questions that I don't know what I am you know and he said you're a healer you've always been a healer all of your incarnations are healers all of your mates in the heavy octopus they're healers but this goes back to the octopus man you learn things from all angles of it you know one part of the book, he says, is it possible that you've been both doctor and patient

to understand the learnings of what it requires to be a human? And when he brought that question to me, he said, the only difference this time, but is the healing you're doing now is you're trying to heal the organizations that are addressing people's needs. So that's a long-winded way, Manny,

but it kind of takes that less than direct path to kind of get to where you're going. And it seemed to me as each step along the way, I just, I remember I told my parents this when I was about 11, they said, what do you want to be when you grow up? I said, I'd really like to be an efficiency expert I 11 I don't even know what the hell that meant you know but I like the word you know but if you look at what I do you know what I do is I go into hospitals and organizations and communities you know community structures and I try to make them better at what they're doing and that's the that's the only reason by way, that I found myself involved in searching out issues of the soul, because I was trying to make the organizational clinical structure be more complete. I didn't expect all this, you know.

Yeah. Did you find healing in it for yourself? You talk about healing these organizations. How about you? Well, if you listen in between the words with Laz, what he's really doing is he's not only educating about a topic. He's really his job is me. That's his job. His job is to get me straight. So if he were around, he would tell you, but you were really you were off the rails. I asked him once, Mandy, I said, how do I come to sit here on this couch with that woman and you? How does that happen? And he said, it was a long road, bud, but I had to find a way to get you here. And I asked, you know, this is what makes it complex. And I said, well, you know, you talk about the complexity of all this.

Have there been other iterations of this thing, this triangle? He said, oh, more than you want to count. Which is that one appendage on the octopus is what he refers to. That's the Bud McGarkey appendage. And you move up and down this appendage depending upon how you learn or you don't learn. But that's not all who you are. He's great with his stories. He's great with his words, his hoaxes with me, but his analogies are really the teaching tool. So he says this, and this is something that I've actually started to incorporate into what we do with behavioral health programs.

He said when people, in particular traumatic, people who've had traumatic experiences, when they come into the systems, Bud, that you operate, it's like this. It's like every soul is like a little pocket mirror. He says, and it's as though that mirror has been smashed on the concrete. And now it is in just a hundred shards of mirror. And they come to you and they, or the systems you operate, and they say, can you help me put this mirror back together? And with all respect to everybody, they do the best job they can at putting that mirror back together. And then we discharge them. They're very whole now.

We discharge them. We wish them well and kind of give them a treatment plan down the road. He says that's all fine and good, but when they go home and they look in the mirror, that mirror, what they see are all those glued together shards. They're not whole. This is how do you work with people in such a way to get them to be whole again? Because now you're addressing the soul of the individual. You can address the mechanics that they have of a human shell. You can do that. And apparently you guys do that very well. But in terms of addressing the soul that's a whole nother level that requires that you get a person to understand that they can't heal anything

this is answer your question until they heal themselves until they have the compassion for themselves and the ability to understand forgiveness for themselves they can't move beyond any of that. And it goes on, and even the book even goes on in terms of how that can affect how you operate in the afterlife, particularly with traumatic experiences, in terms of coming back as a whole energy again. So that was an eye-opener for me. You know, that's like so emotional for me because, and I actually just wrote about it last week. It was called ICU, like, you know, like in the hospital, the ICU and then dash ICU, like I-S-E-E-U. And the writing was about how I see people. I see how broken they are because after I left the hospital from my coma that I was in for nine days and, you know, I was intubated and I had that

near death experience. I was so broken and I was so confused at the same time. I felt so different because I had gone somewhere and touched this energy that I had never seen before, felt before, and I was changed. And there was a very long period where I was so confused. And, you know, in my writing, I said just that. I said, the hospital did their job. They saved my life. But then I was just discharged and left with all of these pieces to put back together. And it was the hardest years of my entire life.

And I'm still doing the work. And that was in 2013. And not to diminish that, that's the learning. That's the learning path, if you will, in terms of the larger soul picture, as it was described to me. I mean, I say this like it's me, but it's not. I'm really trying to give you what he says to me. That your whole soul life is like that. As a matter of fact, he said, if you really want to understand the octopus analogy, this goes, this is recent, by the way, over the past couple of months. If you really want to understand that analogy, it's as though there's one mirror, right? And that mirror gets dropped.

The mirror that's called the mirror of all existence, that mirror gets dropped. He says, now look over there. There's that one little shard, and it's got Bud McGarkey's name on it. He said, you pick up that little shard. He says, now that gets dropped again. And all those shards, that's your octopus, Bud. So there's all these different mechanisms to all this. They're kind of defining who we are and why we are having the experiences that we're having. There's all kinds of questions, man. I won't do this with you today, but there's all kinds of questions you can ask about the entry into an ND experience, what happens at the end of the experience, have you had that experience before? What's the residue of all that experience? How does that affect you going forward? Was that

something that you had decided you wanted to do or you needed to do? And how do you, as you say, how do I crawl out from underneath that? What was the real learning behind all that? Because there is both the yin and yang of it. I applaud the NDEs. I have a lot of discussions with them. Some are productive. I mean this affectionately for everybody too because I talk about that lies indicated to me that

NDEs are really just walking around the perimeter of afterlife. Some people don't like to hear that. They think that they want it to be that way. They want it to be the way that Michael Newton wrote about it, how it was just a tiny smidget of what it really was. I mean, you know, there was no time, but for me to think that I even saw or experienced, I can't say saw because I wasn't physical, but it was just, I felt like I was there for milliseconds. Saw very little. Mandy, why don't you share with like what happened after? It threw me into a realm that I was not familiar with. I started having messages given to me in the middle of the night. And, um, it was by a gentleman who had saved me 18 years before on, on the same day and for the same thing, an asthma attack. His son saved me 18 years later. And so that connection was very interesting and special. And his father had passed away and started giving me messages for his son. And I was like, wait a minute, what's going on here? And then I, you

know, just simply asked, you know, what is my purpose here? And I was told I'm a messenger. Yeah, that's all I am is a messenger? And I was told I'm a messenger. Yeah, that's all I am is a messenger. And that's what I do every day. You know, what's interesting, Mandy, is that I'm not picking on you, but I don't mean a bad way. I had a conversation recently about NDEs. In one instance, the answer was when the person came back, it was the real energy, but it was a reincarnated version of that energy, which I found that it can be that complex that even though you have an intermittent interruption of a lifeline, but it's still you. This wasn't in the book of the octopus analogy. Let me just kind of give you this little teaser here. Let's say you are a relatively complex, advanced soul. And the energy that you have is very complex and fluid. It's not like intact. It's not like a ball and it's fluid. You're leaving it.

Like if you went over and touched a desk, you'd leave a little bit of your energy over there on a desk, etc. You're not a novice soul. And he explains in the book that a novice soul, young soul, is one that has one appendage and all the energies at the furthest tip of that to try to kind of build its successes or its personality, really, its vibration vibration frequency. So let's say that you're a little bit more complex than that, a little more advanced than that. Let's say you have five or six appendages down there. So you're learning the messenger from all these

different positions, both the positive and the negative. So maybe sometimes you're the messenger giver and sometimes you may be the person who refuses to see a maybe sometimes you're the messenger giver and sometimes you may be the person who refuses to see a message. But on the messenger tentacle, he says, he talks about people looping all the time. They just loop in their incarnations and loop out of the absence of awareness of what they can do? He talks about the self-esteem, the soul's self-esteem of understanding what it can do. He also talks about some people

like to be comfortable in that loop. They're familiar. You know, if my daughter tells me, dad, I'm coming back, same place, same person. Yeah, she's very comfortable. But he says, he talked about, I know this is getting a little complicated here but he's he talks about the number seven all the time to me seven senses seven you know it's such a

sense it's said in the book it's it's the vibration of creation well each tentacle he says has seven layers in it each position that you mandy hold and the octopus head has seven layers in it. Each position that you, Mandy, hold in the octopus head has seven layers in it. I didn't understand this when you first mentioned the octopus analogy. It's possible, I'm just going to take a free hand here. It's

possible that before your NDE, maybe you were level three, advancing on level three, and maybe four came back same energy but everything that was to be learned in three was learned and now we're moving to four so that when you pass this is him now this threw me for a loop by the way he said when you pass your energy rolls over i said said, what? What do you mean it rolls over? What am I rolling to? And then he talked about going through the senses and the

heavens and hells. I said, you're confusing me. How is all this happening? He says, because all of you is on all the appendages, that's all of you. So part of you may, I use the word lone, but a small portion of that fluid energy may kind of roll over to a tentacle. But you go through those things he talked about in the book. And Mandy, for example, if you're a four now, when you go through all that, you go to the head of the octopus and occupy that level four there. And then you decide, do I want to go back? I really liked four. I want to go back to four. Because there's some things back there, I'd like to kind of fine tune for myself. Or you could say, I'm ready. I'm ready for five. Right? That's the amazing part

of the octopus. And here's how he sold me on that. He said I had five or six, I can't remember, I think it was six appendages that were dropped down. He described some of them to me. I won't share them with you, but he described what some of them are doing. And he said, isn't it interesting, Bud? And it will be about 10 years ago. He said, isn't it interesting, Bud, about 10 years ago is when you went to the monastery. I said, well, yeah, my daughter was there. He says, but what also happened

one of your appendages was a monk who passed and he loaned you that energy and that's what drew you there so all that kind of is transpiring and so when i talk to the nde people we have these discussions it's it's interesting to see you know where they are in terms of how they see their energy as a result of what they experience. Complex, eh? I love it. When you were talking about the loop, were you, because that was one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was the chakra loop. Is that what you're referring to?

No, he never mentioned a chakra. That's a good question. I may ask that. He never mentioned that as a, and we're not done with it but uh no the only thing he mentioned was that the the mechanics of moving through methodically moving through each moving through yeah yeah it's a level so it's not a loop but it can be like an interruption of movement like and he's big on because i'm big on it he's big on uh trauma that if there's a particular traumatic event that that somehow doesn't get balanced out not so much resolved

but balanced out that that portion of that soul can stay within the confines of that and that will and if they're at say uh you know i don't know say they're at the heart level of the chakra that that may prevent them from moving on further until somehow that gets resolved you know yeah that makes sense because like when i was going through mine when i'm thinking as my i'm thinking of myself as an octopus at the moment. I went through so much loss and I felt like what had happened to my human body, myself, how it felt is that with each loss, I felt stripped. And at one point it was like, I felt naked because I had nothing more. I felt like I could lose at the moment. And the only thing that was left there was my soul. Isn't that interesting?

In the rawest of forms, right? In the rawest of forms. So then you make a choice, though. There's a choice that you always can make, right? So I like how you said Mandy could have chose to either stay where she was or she could have chose to, you know, go up a level. I think it's more complex. Again, I hate to do this to you. I think it's more complex. No, no, no. This is part of the new book where we're talking about chaotic energy.

It is. But if you look at it through this lens, that you, well, let's kind of agree on a premise. Let's say that you're,'s go back to mandy again she's she's that she's that four up in the head of the octopus and she's thinking about a five and it's kind of being laid out to her in a certain kind of process and she says okay i see it uh i see the challenges of it um i'm all in i'm going you know going. Get me down there as quickly as you can. And so, and she, in a way, because she's an advanced soul, she's had some influence in terms of selectivity, where she's going, you know, the mission she's on, so to speak, maybe who she's going to be associated with.

So she sees it as this is what's going to happen. Laz describes it as that's your master plan that's just loaded with landmines. Even though you picked your mother and your father, Mandy, they had a mother and a father and they had brothers and sisters and cousins and stuff. All of that energy is now being influenced on that plan that you arrived at when you were ready to kind of release yourself from there. So some of the things, Sean, you're talking about, it could have been, there could have been unanticipated landmines, but say almost, this is me speaking now, not last, but maybe almost appropriate to the mission, so to speak, that you were on.

It's all of, and again, he says, it's very simple. He says, this is all about learning. He says, I know some of it's really hard learning, but it's all about learning. In the midst of difficult learning. And divine timing, it sounds like too. Well, he says, is your soul capable of balancing that out? Do you have the tools to get through this?

Do you have the awareness? Really, do you have the awareness? Awareness, that's where it starts. let me give an example i've said this and i don't think i've ever written about it i certainly have said it multiple times when i've been interacting with these two people and i says bud you're you're not really good in relationships because you're so control oriented he says in the midst of this thing you're on, it's all about control. And it just bleeds like hell over into your relationships. And he says, you were a terrible husband. You're not such a good boyfriend, but you're a really good friend. And he says, the qualities you're carrying around right now. And I said, well, I don't want to get caught up in one of

the senses or chakra levels because of all that. And he says, well, it isn't a matter of having it have happened to you, but it's a matter of how are you going to balance all that out? And I said, well, I can't go back to these relationships and start balancing it all out. And he said, that's not what I'm talking about. He says, you just have to balance it out. For example, but if you made somebody cry, make somebody else happy, make them laugh. Find a way to balance it out.

You don't have to go back to the person or the event or the episode that occurred to you. You just have to have the awareness that the analogy of the bricks in the book, somehow you have to get rid of some of those bricks. So I don't know the answer to what you're saying. It could be kind of wrapped in all that because everything that we experience is twofold. It's some learning event and we created it. Now, we created something bad because of who we associated with who we kind of aligned ourself with somehow that individual that event entered into our life but somehow we created it

either by letting our guard down etc do you remember the story in the book about the people who bought the house yeah he was talking about ripple of rippling effects he talked about how the people in that well you can look at it from that point of view and say that those people were innocent. They didn't create that. Well, in fact, they did have a hand in it being created. Even the life events that may seem to be really, you know, shitty for us. For some reason, there was something to be learned from that. And it was probably because it was negative, a yang part of our life experience. So how I see it is what you're saying

is that basically we can look at these things as different, like you hear people saying like, you know, we live in the 3D and then we move up, you know, in awareness as we do, we're moving up to these different dimensions. For sure for myself, myself you know as my frequency and vibration rose it seems like i wasn't on the same 3d anymore right there was no way so what you said though is you can get stuck within the chakra loop right yeah and i see the chakras as a roadmap right of your life you know you can think of them. I always teach this in my classes that, you know, they develop from zero to seven all the way to 49. And it just matches perfectly with just the typical human life.

And so you can get stuck in one of these. Is that right? You just said that. And I think that oftentimes I see this working on people's energy. They do. Well, it's stuck, it's stuck in the sense of, you know, is it, it's a cleansing process as he described, you know, and if you're, I found it fascinating when he said that, cause I had a hard time understanding really kind of grasping all that.

It was so different from what I was led to be understood. And he said, well, let's take an example. Let's take one of your monk friends. Let's take Kenshin as example. You know, he lives on the monastery. He's isolated. He's insulated. He concentrates every day on his vibration and frequency. He's looking for perfection in the evolution of all that. And he passes and his house, so to speak, his sharper house is relatively clean. And he moves rapidly through all the senses and all of the levels of the chakra and kind of arrives at the head of the octopus very quickly. He says that's very different than somebody who has I guess like most of us,

vibration level, this all over the place and things that we've done that we know that that needed to be somehow cleansed or corrected. And what fascinated me about it was the issue of trauma that actually swung Charlotte for a loop too. And she's never heard of that or imagined that or had anybody else say that to her. That little piece of your energy could be trapped here, right? Still, because it was so horrific. I mean, we can go through history and name any one of a dozen of things like that. Like we were talking about with Gettysburg, you know, that those energies may be trapped until the watcher finds a way to kind of pull that back. And I said, well, how long? And he really doesn't have a whole lot of patience when I ask him that question

because time is an issue for him. He says, you have all time. You have all time. He says, this is not, this is my word. This is not your first rodeo, bud. That's how I frustrate him. Because he said, you know, all these things you have known, we've had discussions over here about all these things.

You already know it. He says, it's just a matter of kind of finding your level of awareness. He says the problem with most of the, he calls them humans, is that when they, getting to the point of awareness kind of rocks their world because it has to change. And they really don't want to change.

And when you find awareness in what it is, a new kind of open-mindedness, it disrupts how you're supposed to live your life now. Because there's relatively, I mean, if you and I, if the three of us walk down the, you know, I can't walk there. We drove up to Starbucks and we started talking about this in the corner of

the room. There'd be people in Starbucks kind of moving to the exits, you know, because this just isn't on the front burner for most people. They're really, and I tell Vaz this, most of us are we're just trying to get through the day down here. And he said, that's okay. You have to get through the day. But you can't ignore the issues that relate to your soul. This has me thinking about this particular shaman that Shanna and I know. me one time that people like me who've experienced leaving their physical body a couple of times

that she would suggest doing a soul retrieval. A soul retrieval? Soul retrieval. So it's, you know, it's supposed to be pretty intense because they believe that, especially people like me who've been in comas, you know, our soul leaves us. And for me, I believe that was also protection, but that little pieces of my soul have been left behind and I need to retrieve that back to have that wholeness again. But part of me, as you were talking, was thinking maybe that piece of me is learning another lesson as we speak.

Maybe it's not supposed to be retrieved back. Maybe it's on another tentacle over there, learning more, and it all comes back to wholeness at the top of that octopus head later. I don't know. Yeah. That's the amazing thing about all this is that I mentioned it in the very end of the book that I'm curious about that. What am I really? When all that energy comes back together, who are you? And I'm fascinated by that. You know what I think? And I'm just throwing this out there, but I would think that when that happens, I would be a last, a spirit, a guide. Well, that's what you said, right? But that is the goal to not reincarnate anymore eventually right is that the ultimate goal yeah this is what you said this is what blew my mind

uh because we were talking about everything kind of uh especially the last two and a half books has related within the context of the the analogy the octopus analogy. And he said, this is just, he said, and I think it's in the book, he said, the octopus you're on now is like one college in a university, right? And you're in the college of healing. Now, your sole experience is to be in every head of every octopus in every college in the entire university

and all the appendages within all that. If you can successfully do all of that, he said, then you would be that that created everything. So I asked him, I said, how did you get to be where you are last? This is kind of one of the early questions I asked him. I said, how do I know you? And here's what happens in the room. I'll be sitting and Charlotte will be there. And she, we're talking. And then she'll look here.

And I'll say, is he here? This is 10 years ago. And she said, there's a spirit here. I said, what do you see sherlock and she said i see an orb bud it's an orb it's about the size of a basketball and within that i see this figure and i say well what does this figure look like and she described him in terms of what he in terms of what he, in terms of what he looked like. And of course the things I would ask him, how do, how do I know you?

And Charlotte would say, well, he's just looking at your book. Like he's dumbfounded. And I said, well, what that's before we call the last, I said, what's he dumbfounded about? And I, she said, I think maybe you're supposed to know. And I said to him, well, let me say this to you. I said, over the course, it's been about a year we've been talking. I said, over the course of the year, when I talked to him, I said, it's like I'm sitting at the kitchen table talking to my brother. That's the feel you have.

And she says, now he's shaking his head. Reminds me of Edgar Cayce. I actually wrote some things for you, and I'll now he's shaking his head reminds me of edgar casey i actually wrote some things for you and i'll read you in a minute and i said well how how did we have a life together that was in the that was in the internet by the way did we ever have a life together he said we we had one life together uh it was in jerusalem we were basically i would call say street waves just kind of living hand to mouth on the street and he got into a lot of stuff that apparently i got him into a lot of trouble and ourselves a lot and he said and the only thing i said where are our parents and he said you don't remember i said no he never answered that he said well what happened was that I was faster than you and they shot you with the arrow and you died and that was the life

we had together and I said well were we were you my older brother he says I've always been your old employee. Oh, wow. So, and later, as years pass, I try not, I kid him about what he wears all the time. And he kids me about the fact that I'm losing my hair and he's got glorious locks or something like that. But Charlotte said he presents himself in the personality that you would remember from that time. That's the familiarity, bud, that you feel as though he's sitting across the kitchen table. And he physically presents the way that he was when you two were together. Wow. You know, that's interesting too, because I have over like a six-year period had put together my very first

past life regression I was a Franciscan nun so when I finally found David years later and then actually it didn't come so quickly that you know that I knew he was a Franciscan monk because I I didn't even know what that was so when I put it together and I realized we were both you know um you know he was a monk I was a nun and we're both these you know Franciscan and we're both in the same medieval time too I had a verification through an Akashic reading that we had a life together. Yeah. People ask me all the time about that exchange, you know, when you're sitting with someone who's a psychic or a whole medium, whatever you want to call it. Yeah.

And they always ask me, well, what was the one thing that they said that was indisputable? Mm-hmm. And I say, well, that's not Sherlotte, number one. Sherlotte has never told me anything that's going to happen. that's not Charlotte, number one. Charlotte has never told me anything is going to happen. That's not our relationship. I said, but within the context of the exchange, there have been, I wouldn't say many, but certainly enough to kind of grab my attention. The one that grabbed my attention early on was that I asked a question one time. What happens when I go there?

We're there about three or four hours every time I go. So a lot of it is kind of just, I transcribe everything, tapes all over the place. And at the end, I have questions, my own personal questions. And I said, Laz, I have a question about repetitive dreams. I said, what's with repetitive dreams? And he said, well, memories, baggage is on your aura, past lives, maybe. He says, but what are you talking about specifically? And I said, well, I have two. I said, one was, I'm walking out of a field, like a field of wheat or kind of low, that waste level wheat, and there's a forest behind me when I'm walking out of that and I said what is that and he says I'll tell you in a minute tell me the

other one horse's ass right yeah it's okay the other one is hard to describe I said I'm sitting there's somebody with me it's undefinfinable. There's a structure behind me. It's kind of rocks and mud and wood, and there's mud everywhere. There's water kind of streaming in front of us. I said, I have that dream occasionally. And this is what got me. He said, that was the life you had with a woman you call Maureen. I was shocked. Maureen was a woman, a young girl who I dated when I was 22. And she died that year of liver cancer. And I had never mentioned Maureen to anybody. But when he mentioned Maureen, I said, Oh, this is just, and that's why I say to him, like, you can tell me what I don't want to see people, I want to see you, you know, because all

this gets a little bit too freaky for me. But he did say that was an incarnation that was during the volcano. He said, unfortunately, you don't have too many. He says, you were never a pharaoh or anything like that. He said, your incarnations are pretty kind of mainstream. But what he said to me, I asked him one time. I just wrote this down here then. I said, can you describe your relationship with Charlotte? Because people want to know, how does this happen? Does she transform? And that results in her ability to both see me and hear me.

I'm a perception to her. I'm giving her the perception that I want her to see and hear so that she can relate it to you. He said, members of your family have never seen me, but your dog has. I found that interesting. For you, I create the perception of what I look like in our past life together so that you would understand me better. I do not possess charlotte. That would hurt her. Other channelers possibly connect to a lower energy.

Guides possess energy that is so raw, it would be dangerous for someone with low vibration. For example, if a higher energy enters a human shell, it literally breaks that shell. The other energies that are being channeled could be family or distant family members or something else, but it is not a guide. My vibration level would not be compatible with the typical human shell. And in my realm, some energies have even higher vibration than a guide, even with Charlotte who vibrates very high. I have to tone it down significantly. You know what I find so amazing is that, and I'm,

I'm almost jealous is that you seem to get very clear messages from him. And I think that many times, I know for me, I mean, I'm putting together, it's like the greatest puzzle in the whole wide world over years. And it's like just an ombre puzzle. It doesn't even have pictures to help me. It's just very difficult, but it seems like you're getting very precise things. And maybe it's because I am busy, you know, because I'm not able to be in the space

of the head all the time. So I'm receiving whenever I'm able to go there. So I only get that much. I think I don't recommend this to everybody. If you read all four in a sequence, you would not see what happened in afterlife in the way you're talking in the beginning. He took me on a journey.

It was an evolution. It was an evolution of kind of feeding me a little nugget here, a little nugget there, whatever. First of all, I love what you just read. I mean, it makes, it makes so much sense. You know, like my vibration, the level I'm at, I'm able to receive messages from family members. You know, that's just where my energy is at. So to me, that really resonated what you just read. Thank you for sharing that. I wanted to touch base really quick on water. Throughout your book, I almost felt like water, like water was on my mind the entire time. There was a lot of things, you know, talked about like waves and the splitting of the

souls and that it's like rain. You also talk about breath and water. I tend to feel like I can tap in a lot and get a lot of messages when I'm showering. Like water is just such a high vibrational element. Can we just talk about water and breath and the significance of water that you've learned through your spirit guide? What would you like to know? So, for example, let's start with the splitting of the soul. You compare it to rain. You explain, you know, that the person's body is like the dam that stops the soul.

Yeah. Yeah. Boy, this is complex. Actually, the entire sixth book is about the elements. So you're kind of on the precipice of where I am with him and then where he's taking me. Well, in the beginning, he talks about water as life. He talks about what all of them are. Water is life. Fire is regeneration. Earth is stability. Air air is a child he calls air a child he told me one time mandy it's interesting you mentioned showers he said when was the last time you thanked the shower the water in the shower when was the last time after a thunderstorm you went out and made sure the trees were okay.

You know, when you stand on the ground, can you stand on there with your feet and really feel the message sending to you, the grass? He says, when you're taking a shower, he says, I want you to look in the shower head. I want you to look at each drop that's coming at you. And I want you to imagine the journey that drop has had to get to you. Because all the water on the planet is the same water that has been around for all time. At one time, was it a cloud? Was it part of the Arctic Circle? Where is that drop going now, bud? And it's communicating with you. It can change. Water can change your life. He said the sad thing about water is this.

He said, imagine if you woke up every day. Suppose you two were friends, right? Suppose every day you woke up, Mandy, and you went over to Shana's house and threw garbage at her every day. Covered her with garbage. How long before Shana is going to say, I'm going to rebel. I'm going to revolt over this. And he says, that's where all of you are with relationship with water right now. He says, imagine this. Everything is energy. Everything is

energy. As all of you, this is generalized to all, as all of you create these pockets of energy that you're sitting in right now, which is loaded with negative energy, chaotic negative energy, and there's chaotic positive energy, but we're loaded with, he says, imagine the water in the air affected by that negative energy. He says, what do you think would happen, bud? I said, well, is it changing the electrical qualities, the vibration of the water? He said, well, yes, but it's absorbing the negativity.

So he says, and when that happens to water, because water is electrical, he says eventually water will go into a free fall. And when it free falls, it's going to land somewhere. And what do you think will happen when the water is negative and it lands somewhere in a free fall? And I said, well, that way you're going to have floods and stuff like that. He said, yeah, he said, good possibility. He said, but here's the other possibility. You're water. 70-some percent of you is water.

What happens when that message, that water message comes and hits you? He said, it could literally shut you down. He says, that's the impact that water has on your life. He says, you are water. You come from water. You were born out of basically water. He says, but why do you think, I don't know what you do in Colorado, guys, whether you go to a lake or something.

But here on the, we have the Jersey Shore. And there's an enormous attraction by everybody to go to the shore. And he says, what really is happening there is his mother's calling you home. He says, you are water. And eventually he says, you'll be water. You'll be a water again. But he goes through what he's doing right now. He's going through all of those elements right now, and kind of just defining all of them the same way. And what he's talking about really is our responsibility in terms of our energy to that. He says, you are the elements and the elements are you. I don't do too many podcasts. I'm so glad that we had a chance to talk about it. But I ask every reader and everybody I podcast with, especially, and I

appreciate it to you who haven't read the book or listened to the book. But what would be, what questions would you have asked? And if you, if you give them to me now, I'll write them down and I will ask him and I will call or text you with the answers. I had a woman from a very good friend of mine, Kirstie down in New Zealand, who does a near death podcast. And she sent me three, three questions. One was about suicides. What goes on with suicides? So what questions would you, if you were sitting there, what questions would you have asked? So I'll give you one right now that I've been on. So I've been receiving a lot of feminine and negative, feminine and negative, sorry, feminine and masculine energies over, I'd say for the past six months, and all kinds of stuff has

been coming to me in my dreams and just a lot of synchronicities and I'm putting together a puzzle, right? But one of the things that I discovered was the Pista Sophia, which was in the Nagamati. And I've been doing a lot of research on some of those unearthed sacred texts. And so it is said that Sophia, which means wisdom, was not added specifically and the feminine energy which they say is the feminine aspect of god which no one ever talked about it was always the masculine god i'm the leader the commander the creator you know the fearful one uh i have an army right and so you know it was hidden you know these books about soph, the feminine aspect of God. I would love to know the other side slots.

Did you see the movie The Shock? The what? The Shock? Did you, Mandy? Yeah. Yeah. Sophia and The Shock. Oh, wait, really? Wait, what? Sophia is part of The Shock movie? Yeah.

I haven't seen that movie in 10 years. When he goes into the cave and it's judgment. Do you know what we're talking about? I can't remember that part. Jesus, they cross the river. He walks across the river with Jesus. Oh, yeah. I remember that part. Okay. Jesus sends him up the hill he

goes into the cave and he meets a woman sitting on a chair that character is sophia it has to be i'm gonna have to re-watch this i mean i never heard of this you know i'm starting to put lots of things together there's another movie that someone else just mentioned that Sophia was in it and that it probably was referring to that and so I'm like so people knew and they've been throwing hints in that and I've just really gone down this rabbit hole about her because I'm just it just amazes me how it seems like so many things were hidden from the world by, you know, the hierarchy just for their benefit, you know, to have power and control. And it just,

it seems like a very beautiful thing that's happening right now is that we realize that you have to have a balance. You can't be all masculine and even women have become so masculine. And so I I've just been really embracing that feminine and wanting to kind of, I guess, know the energy more. I will ask him specifically and I'm sure he'll go off in detail because it's kind of a, it's not a specific question. It's kind of a generalized category. I can guess a little bit though, but I'm always wrong with my guesses,

by the way. We always think we know. I try to, I try to psych him out, but I'm always wrong with my guesses by the way every time we always think we know i i try to i try to psych him out i'm always i'm always he always takes me a different direction um but i think i think he he believes that we're you know we're all all part of all of it you know he asked me one time whether that in my incarnations what i will have to experience and not because i asked about male female and that kind of, he says, well, yeah, because you are, you are of the creator and the creator is all of that. So, you know, you'll not only have, you'll not only live that you'll live,

you'll live black, brown, yellow, red, white. Republican, Democrat. Heterosexual, homosexual, all the mental illnesses, all of the handicaps, you'll live all of that because that's the totality of the experience. And I said to him one time that, well,

how many lifetimes does that take? He says, this may shock you. He says, it never ends. It was never intended to end he says there's what he says what are there x billions of you on this planet just this planet there's x billions of you and just this dimension and uh he says and all of those souls are have to learn everything that there is to learn in every planet, in every dimension,

et cetera, et cetera. He says it goes on forever. He said, and I said, well, has it always been like this? He says, yes, it's always been. He doesn't take shots at the scientists. He just says he feels sorry for them. He says that they, you know, he says, for example, they still don't know why you guys exist. They can't't understand consciousness how can they understand what you and i are talking about here today he says or they think it all happened with a bang he says didn't happen with a bang he says this universe has had multiple iterations of it multiple multiple multiple same with your planet same with you he said it's it's the russian dolls it's a doll within a doll within a doll within a doll and that just that's when i say i've had enough i'm going home my head

hurts i can't you know that's how i feel lately with the whole sophia thing i have a friend it's a three-hour drive for me and i have a friend that i call over at the recession and she says well what did he say that what did he say tonight I said I can't explain it I said I have to and I've even mentioned the book I mean having the transcripts gives me the opportunity much like you said at the beginning that I can listen to over and over again and slowly pieces of it makes sense oh my god yes but not all of it but hustle yeah well Yes. Right. The puzzle. Yeah. Well, that's, you know, I had a dream that was so significant. And it just reminds me of what we were talking about, the water and the lake and stuff. But I mean, so here I am and I'm with this man and we're at the end of this lake and he holds this oyster shell to me.

And he looks at me and he's like, this is the yolk. And I'm thinking, well, that's an oyster shell with like putty in there but and then I'm like oh and then all of a sudden water drops onto the oyster shell and goes into the water and like life is created there's like a tadpole and then he kind of goes away and I'm like oh yoke like creation and then he just goes away because I start thinking too much and then I had just last night was watching Jeopardy and what was it last night the night before and you say that the pearl inside of the oyster shell is like known as wisdom which is Sophia I mean it's just like there's constantly like these puzzle pieces start to it's insane it must be something in in where all of your energy is with this Sophia

thing because it could just kind of keep amazing yeah it's constant always like that with her I actually created a picture before like in the same week that I had that dream. And I didn't know who Sophia was when I had that. So I had made a picture and it has a girl by this lake and she's looking at her reflection. Well, the story I ended up reading months later about Sophia is that she looks inside of a lake and sees her reflection and that's like her demise. And she actually ends up, and there's a whole creation and dropping of the water story. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. See, but now, you know, I mean,

Shanna are friends because she can call me with this stuff. And I'm like, you're not crazy. You're not crazy. And then. I want to know, Mandy, I want to know what your question is. Oh, gosh. We're very inquisitive people. We're seekers just like you.

So we probably could write a list long for us. It's interesting when you say that when you look in the water, he actually used this recently in this new book about water being a mirror. Of course, right. It reflects you. And where he was going with it was when you look in the mirror what do you really see and he says most people look in the mirror to try to present themselves properly to somebody else what's really happening he says there is there basically he says it really he calls it a second self he says it's not real like it's not like a real

you but there's a there's an energy bouncing to it and back to you and so when you look in the mirror and you say boy i look like shit today that's that's kind of back that's coming back to you he says water when you do that with water it does the same thing i found that interesting water oh my gosh water plays just it's it's, it's interesting too, because both of my near death experiences, it was raining. And so I did a lot of EMDR around rain because every time it would rain, my muscle memory and my body would remember the trauma and I'd start having a panic attack. But now what's interesting is I find that a lot of my spiritual experiences or the messages that I'm given to give to someone else is always when I'm in the shower.

So, you know, if you think about it, that, that water element has really played an extremely important role in my awakening and with some of the things that I do now. I mean, it was so wild the other night I'm in the shower and I'm Shanna is so sweet. She got me a, um, a waterproof paper pad for my shower. Cause otherwise I was like running in and out, putting it in my phone real fast. So I wouldn't forget. And this is how I get my messages. It was like the jean jacket with the patches, the pins need to be safe and the scotch and the whiskey and cornbread. And that's all I got. So I get out of the shower and I'm like, here we go again. I'm a messenger. I have to listen. So I text John

Woodruff, the fireman that saved me the second time. I said, your dad told me to tell you the jean jacket, scotch and whiskey cornbread. And I listed it and he calls me and he's like, you're freaking me out. Oh, and a brush. And I'm like, why? He's like, he sends me pictures of the jean jacket with patches. He said that the pens for the jean jacket are in the safe. They were from his great grandfather from world war two. Um, he, uh, he sends me a bottle and a brush that he just pulled out of his dad's stuff. The bottle was called Scott's whiskey, which is so cool. And then he just found his father's brush. And so all of it in my ego wanted to twist it and be like, this is crazy,

but I just let it just simply send to him as is. And it all made perfect sense to him. Okay. I will ask him about you personally and water and he says this about all the elements that all the elements are no less alive than we are but our ego doesn't allow us to kind of branch out there because it beyond the ego it to think that would be too bizarre you know to think that you could actually he did he did tell me once that water has very specific healing qualities yeah you can stand in a shower and you can ask you can ask he says whether you

believe it or not that's the whole that's the that's the key whether you believe it or not he said jesus knew that right john the baptist he said it's a matter of desire you know it's a matter of believing it it's interesting about about when Jesus walks on the water. And he said that happened. He says, there was a Jesus. He says, but there were a number of very advanced souls, he said. That when they came here, they came here without any doubt about anything. He says, if you had no doubt, you could walk on water. This is a problem

with you, but you question everything. Yeah. When he kind of loops back with the octopus and he says, you know, there's a reason I use the octopus. And he says, because the octopus can grow a leg. He says, it can change its environment. It can change itself. It never doubts that, you know, it has no doubt. And I said, are you telling me that when I am whole, when all of my appendages are completed, all seven layers, and I'm back in the head, fully loaded, he says, there isn't anything you can't do. He says, the problem is most of you guys are all over the place. You know?

Yeah. One appendage is a one, another one's an eight. Yeah. You just said you kind of all over the place because that answers your question, Manny, about how could I be a guide like Laz? Guides like Laz have completed all of their appendages successfully and are now whole in the head. Yeah. Now I asked Laz, I said, well, what's next for you? He said, well, what's next for me? He says, I can do this. You know, I don't know whether he enjoys it or not.

He says. Can you ask him that? I did ask him that. He says, because I asked him, I said, your job's really hard. He says, the hard part is how do you tell somebody you're there to help them and they don't believe you're there to help them. And I don't believe you're there. And I thought about that a lot when I was thinking about how your life has evolved. I mean, was there ever a point where you were like, holy shit, maybe I need to be a patient in the hospital for behavioral health? Because am I actually like, was the self trust there to begin with?

Did you trust it? Did you doubt it? Were you like, I can't put this out. People are going to think I'm crazy. Like, you know, because for Shannon and I, it takes a lot of self-trust to be able to not only believe it. And I don't even know if it's a, for us, it's a feeling. It's not a thought. It's this feeling you have where, you know, it's truth.

What is it like for you? I'll answer it two ways. First off, I think I'm an extreme skeptic. I'm an extreme. And so on occasion, I'll go in to where Charlotte and I sit, and I'll be looking around. I'm still looking for cameras. And she just just laughs so that I think, and with Laz, it is, again, it goes back to that question before Mandy. I mean, what, what do you want to believe about anything? You know, I can tell you this, that when you go from what I was doing for a living to this,

whether you believe it or not, you don't take a lot of the old historical baggage or people with you because there isn't a lot of believability about it as a group. I can't tell you how many individuals have come over and said, you know what? I have the same thing. I got the same. But in terms of in terms of announcing that to the universe, that's a whole other thing. Like, why did you write the books?

I wrote the books because I had to write the books. It actually became that simple. Because they say, well, you could have stopped after the first one and just had like a vanity book for yourself. I said, answering the questions became compelling for me. I had to know what the answer was, or at least kind of try to find what the answer was. And the further you get into it, you know, the more it meant, I don't know whether it's intrigued or what, but it just kind of layered itself over and over and over. It's a lot of like, it was your experience, though, too. But you were, you know, I think there's a difference between like we were you mentioned faith earlier. It's like you have to have a certain amount of faith. Yes. But in your own experiences, nobody doubts the fact that it's great that it might be crazy that we're, you know, a comment about how what's in the book is the

opposite basically of what they think or believe and like you know how could you have done that but etc etc i said well i just did this what you would consider is maybe writing your own damn book you know you have to take a shot at what i'm writing i'm just i'm just explaining my this is a journey it's you know it's like it's really no different in some respects than if you and I went to Italy and we wanted to write a book about how to tour Italy. You know, we're having to experience it in Italy over the last 10 years. We just write about it. It's really no different than that. It's the topic area. It's the substance of it and the way in which it comes. And when people ask me about that, they'll say, well, what makes her so unique? And I say, I don't know

because she's the only one I've ever been to. I mean, I'm not into that. I'm not kind of going around the country sitting with people who have skills. I said, I will tell you this though. It's like Mandy's fascination with water. It's like this. I believe some people,

I think everybody has some kind of let's say medium or psychic ability whether you acknowledge it or not that's a whole other thing i agree those people they're the people that go down to the water and they put a toe in there right just a toe just enough to kind of remember what it was like or whatever and then you have people that will go in up to their knees and people like some of the people you want to read about that are going up to their waist. And then you have people like Charlotte who are literally submerged in it. And that's kind of the beauty of having found somebody who you could find a way to

believe more in, I think was really one of the major substances of the book, for all the books. Again, it all boils down to, you know, what do you believe? Do you believe the message, the messenger, the way it came to you, or whatever? Because if we put 10 people in a room, we'll get 10 different versions of everything. Right. Well, you can tell us that he thinks you're a healer. I think you're like a humanitarian, but a solitarian. I'll tell you what's interesting about when I talk to some people, we have not so much intimate meetings like this,

but other meetings with larger groups. And they all kind of want to jump on the last bandwagon. And I have to kind of calm everybody down and say, you have to understand he's my guy. I'm not possessive he's talking about all these things in relationship to me he's saying you have to now he sometimes phrases it like the rest of the world has to follow you but he's really saying in afterlife he's saying from from chapter one on to the end of the book if you don't get this shit together bud

you're going to have a more difficult thing than you would like. And I would rather you kind of go rapidly so you get up here in the head and we can kind of go, you know, he kissed me all the time. We'll go to a pub and have drinks or something and that'll be that. So that's the other part of the book is that he's my guide and his job, as he says somewhere, one of the books, he says, as you go, but so go I. My job, my job is to get you to where you need to go. And if I don't get you there, then you come back and we do it over and we do it over. He says, I'm fortunate that I have her, meaning Charlotte, I have Charlotte to translate so we can talk now. And I asked him, I said, I actually, I actually asked

this, I went up last week, I said, will there ever be a time when we will talk together without Charlotte? And he says, do you want that? I said, no, no. I said, because if you showed up in my, this is my officer, if you showed up my officer, he had a little orb in the side of the wall in your, in your garb and your hair and all that kind of shit. I would, I wouldn't know what the hell to do with you. You know, I think I said, it's easier for me to kind of use Charlotte as a surrogate to kind of interpret. Have you dreamed of him? I mean, because I know my dreams are so prophetic. Have you dreamed of

a fly? No. That's me, though. See, that's I'm kind of shutting that down. Yeah, you're like, you're not ready for that. I would presume that if you... You've got to grow another tentacle or whatever you call them. What are they called? Apprentice. Yeah. He said one time,

this goes way back. He says, I'll go by camera. They go by camera. I'll come over. He didn't take a picture of me. Yeah. Oh,

he did. He did show. Charlotte. Charlotte did find somebody that he looks like. Wow. Yeah. I've had to do that before. We've done that.

How many? Where it's like, I know exactly what I saw I can't even explain it so I'll look for a picture a lot like the book The Shack where Papa presents in different forms depending upon what was needed at the time and I think what he's saying through the way he presents to Charlotte is that I'm presenting and actually talking and that's like intellectualizing on the level that Bud would really relate to right on that vibration if you if you had an interview with Charlotte she would say

every time Bud comes and Laz comes what he does to Bud is he takes him from here he marches him around the hedge, picking up all these nuggets to get back to what he wanted him to learn for the night. So the other night, yeah, no, it can be frustrating. Yeah, okay. And it comes in the form of like a question that comes from out there. And he says, what do you think would happen, Bud, if the last, the bottom three levels of your appendage were cut off? What do you think happens?

You'd be shorter. I'm looking at your faces. No, but would you die? It would grow back, right? It would grow back. I said that. I said, well, in the fact that you're using an octopus as a part of the analogy right right that could that could grow back he said but but there's more what else and this is what it's always like there's more there's more well you

wouldn't be able to to probably function and be able to get around very well because you'd be out of balance okay my my answer is really bizarre okay go my answer is it is i just was thinking of my experience when a certain part of you is gone it heightens the other parts of you oh that was a good one that's a good answer uh he said energy never dies. The phantom part. Those three appendages never die. They're there. And then you, like an octopus, and then you grow those three back. And on level two, all of a sudden you have this experience.

But that experience is already there because you've been at that level before. It just was on the part of the appendage that got cut off. Okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. So that kind of, I'm still digesting that by the way. Let me just speak this out loud. Okay. So it kind of goes with what i was thinking like if there's a part of you that's gone then that energy goes back goes to another place and then that energy heightens that energy becomes bigger until it has a place to put itself no no

he he used the analogy of when you get a leg amputated. Yes. Like that phantom. They still, yeah. So interesting. Because the energy is still there. It stays in that same space or does it move into another space? That's a good, I don't know the answer to that.

Because he, you know, as you've read the book, he talks about sometimes when we drop energy somewhere, like if we're, I could use that road rage example. You give somebody the finger, that energy is there now, but it's also now joined with other energies similar or like it and becomes a different form of energy. Well, I would think it may become part of the earth maybe for a while you know if it's going to drop you know it's physically if the physical part drops like kind of like ashes to ashes dust to dust comes part of the earth but yet it's it's still there

it doesn't die kind of like you know i always think about how you know when debt with death is a transformation but you know we still talk about my dad. His name is Mike. I mean, the fact that his name is Mike and he was who he was never dies. I mean, just his body died. It's interesting. He told me a story once. A lot of what he says on the backside of it behind a curtain is to try to understand how powerful you are as a soul

the power you really have that's been kind of muted the one phrase that really kind of plagued me was that you know when how the ego shuts down our ability to become really aware of our soul power you Yeah, those limiting beliefs. He told me many years ago in another book, I can't remember which one, he was talking about a guy who, he says, this guy, he says, he's famous on your planet. He said he was an engineer who designed trains for living. That's what he did.

And his energy was just absorbed in the trains, just doing what he did. And I said, well, I don't know what to say. I said, well, that's cute. I mean, a guy in a train. He said, well, when he passed, he chose to distribute his energy into the trains. I said, are you trying to tell me the guy's a train?

He said, no, he's not a train. He said, you can do that with your energy. He said, if you're cleansed, if your energy is cleansed, you can do whatever you want with it. You can go wherever you want, do whatever you want. And so that's on the bazaar. See see that's the kind of story i don't tell anybody because i say oh bud's talking about guys becoming i love that no me too but you but you are our people there's nothing you could tell us that we would think is bizarre we are your people well

you know you guys have a nice podcast but when you're a solo author somewhere writing on the fridge, it's it can. There's not a whole lot of my agent and my publishers know that they're because they're all making money. So, I mean, they're all supporting everything. Yeah, right. It's hard to find from a let me give you an example. The last session is still fresh in my head. And we were talking about he always he always brings out a particular episode of my life because it just when I'm honest with myself and I have to be with him because he knows he knows that I'm bullshitting him. He knows you're still carrying it. But so he'll bring it up and I'll say, I don't want to talk about this. We talk about this all the time. And I said, well, let me ask you this.

I said, these people you're talking about, have any of them read the books? And he said, yes, some of them have. And I said, okay, that's, that's a victory. He says, no, it's not. None of them believe what you wrote or, Bud, that you have changed as a result of what you've written. And he said, that goes back to, Bud, you hit it before, that, you know, where is your particular self-image and self-esteem? If you're still worrying about what other people are thinking, you know. He said, you keep telling me when you come in here you wrote the books because you were compelled to write it he says well if you're

compelled to write it why are you worried about what somebody else will think about so that kind of goes with what you were what you're talking about you know you know at the end of every episode we do what's called a break that shit down and now it's time for break that shit down there's there is one thing and i'll tell you what it is but the uh the monks have it right you know we're we're just far more than we can possibly imagine ourselves to be. And if somehow we can find our way to at least become a little bit more open-minded about the possibilities of what may exist that are beyond the realm of what we think is real, then we may find other more adventurous places to travel. The three of us can agree that what is real is what we can see, touch, and hear. But just having that as our orientation, does that limit our ability

to go beyond those boundaries? Laz always has one thing that he kind of continually gives me. He says, your job is to look beyond the obvious. You think your life is everything you see, when in reality, your life is what you don't see. So Bud, where can everybody find your book? Do you have a website that you want to throw out there? Yeah, bud mcgarkey.com is a website you can buy my book anywhere orange and noble you can buy the amazon you can buy it any audio book and get an audible i recommend the audio book that's what i did not because of the price i think it's just it gives you a better flavor you're not talking to yourself in your head when you read you know and i can clean my house not me That's I love that you can do that.

I can't listen and do I have to sit. I do it. I do it driving, which is probably not the safest thing to do. Right? You're like, where am I? But it has been so amazing. I really appreciate you. I appreciated this book. We've had on people that have studied in DEs and afterlife and yours took it to a whole nother level for me. And I appreciate that. It is different. It's not to say that it's the answer either. It's been the answer I've been exposed to. And I enjoyed it so, so very much. I feel like I want to start from the beginning at your first book. The whole series is in an ebook. Oh, okay. Perfect. You buy one ebook and that will fall forward. Thanks, bud.

If your listeners have any questions, you can feed them to me. I'll try to get the answers to you. Wow. That's awesome. Okay. All right, guys. Tell us. Thank you.

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